This week’s episode focuses on one of the most moving things I’ve seen in my life: the US Supreme Court using its powers to ensure that marriage equality is the law of the land. When I was in law school from 1992-1995, if you said the Supreme Court would require states to recognize same-sex marriage within two decades, you likely would have been laughed out of the classroom. And yet, that is precisely what happened.

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This outcome was the result of brilliant advocacy and foresight by so many different people. One of them is our guest for this week, the legendary Rob Reiner, who is going to take you behind the scenes of how this monumental victory was achieved. It’s an amazing story. Rob is the gold standard of Hollywood, a truly accomplished Director. When Harry Met Sally. Spinal Tap. Princess Bride. American President. The list goes on and on.

He’s also a dear friend. When I argued Moore v. Harper, Rob came to watch and hold my hand. Perhaps my favorite moment at the lunch afterwards was when Judge Luttig admitted he didn’t know who Rob Reiner was, or what any of his movies were. The Judge is truly a man of tradition!

Rob and I have been collaborating on a TV show for families about the Constitution — something of a revival of Schoolhouse Rock. With Jordan Klepper!

The episode begins with a bit of legal news of the week, and in particular, an examination of Donald Trump’s claim that the Presidential Records Act allowed him to take classified information home and bring it to Mar a Lago. (Spoiler: it doesn’t.)

This week, we are doing a deep dive into Obergefell v. Hodges, the 2015 Supreme Court decision that made marriage equality the law of the land. The case began in the early 2010s in four states — Ohio, Michigan, Tennessee, and Kentucky — all of which defined marriage as the union between a man and a woman. These states, however, were not outliers; few States recognized same sex marriage.

Recognizing that their rights were being trampled on, fourteen same-sex couples and two men whose same-sex partners had died filed lawsuits against their respective state governments. James Obergefell was one of these people. More than two decades earlier, Obergefell had met and fallen in love with his future life partner: John Arthur. In 2011, however, Arthur was diagnosed with a debilitating illness called ALS. Realizing that Arthur’s death was imminent, the duo resolved to get married. To do so, they had to travel to a different state (Maryland) where same-sex marriage was legal; by this point, however, Arthur could barely move, meaning the couple had to be wed inside a medical transport plane on the airport tarmac. Arthur died three months later, but Ohio law forbade his death certificate from listing Obergefell as the surviving spouse. Grieving the loss of his loved one and pained by this state-imposed separation, Obergefell filed a lawsuit, alleging that Ohio state law violated his civil rights under the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution.

By the time the case arrived at the Supreme Court, however, Obergefell wasn’t the only plaintiff. More than a dozen similar lawsuits had been launched across the country, and they all merged into one case. Indeed, it was clear that this was the moment to decide the future of same-sex marriage for the country. And there were only two questions before the Court, both of which were relatively straightforward. First, is same-sex marriage a constitutionally protected right? And second, if someone receives a marriage license in one state, are other states required to recognize that marriage license as valid?

The Court answered yes. Learn about how it got there on the podcast. And stay tuned for a remarkable conversation with Rob, not only about how he directs Hollywood movies, but how he directs public movements. Paid subscribers will have access to the full conversation, all the episode notes (including short excerpted versions of the opinions in Obergefell along with the full version), and bonus material from my interview with Rob later in the week.

Here is a short 4 pager description of the decision in Obergefell

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Here is an excerpted version of the decision

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Here is the full decision:

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit nealkatyal.substack.com

Courtside Episode 4 with Rob Reiner

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