Big Ten Show: Oregon-Penn State | Ohio State-Washington | USC-Illinois | Cover 3 College Football

Summary

Cover 3 College Football Podcast — Big Ten Show: Oregon-Penn State | Ohio State-Washington | USC-Illinois

Date: September 23, 2025
Hosts: Chip Patterson, Tom Fornelli, Danny Kanell, Bud Elliott

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Week 5's marquee Big Ten matchups, with a special focus on the Top 10 rematch between Oregon and Penn State, a high-stakes clash between Ohio State and Washington, and USC's road test at Illinois. The hosts analyze positional battles, coaching edges, and storylines, offering insights and predictions with a signature blend of banter and inside knowledge.

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Oregon vs. Penn State: Tale of the Tape

Purpose: To evaluate position-by-position edges heading into a top-10 Big Ten rematch.

Quarterbacks [01:57–06:42]

• Debate: Experience vs. production between Penn State’s Drew Aller and Oregon’s Dante Moore.
• Danny Kanell: “It should be a slam dunk... Drew Aller... but I almost feel like I’m going to regret this after the game.” [03:17]
• Tom Fornelli: “If you look at this season alone, the tale of the tape is on Oregon’s side.” [05:46]
• Bud Elliott: “We have not seen Dante have to operate from dirty pockets... I’m going to lean on the track record and go with Drew.” [06:02]
• Consensus: Slight advantage to Penn State, but with serious reservations and respect for Moore's ceiling.

Running Backs [07:16–09:34]

• Analysis: Penn State's Nick Singleton & Katron Allen vs. Oregon’s deep committee.
• Bud Elliott: “Singleton and Allen are total studs... probably the best duo in the country.” [08:12]
• Tom Fornelli: Notes Singleton has been underwhelming, but still gives the edge to PSU. [08:34]
• Unanimous pick: Penn State, though hosts note Oregon’s backs have over-performed.

Pass Catchers / Wide Receivers + TEs [10:32–13:18]

• Debate: Star power vs. improved depth.
• Tom Fornelli: “Most talented receiver is Oregon’s Decorian Moore; best tight end is Kenyon Sadiq.” [10:32]
• Bud Elliott: Cautions that depth matters—if Oregon’s secondary options don’t show up, Penn State could have an edge. [11:22]
• Danny Kanell: “Decorian Moore… and Kenyon Sadiq are really special... this is a little bit more clear cut for me.” [12:18]
• Consensus: Edge to Oregon, especially for high-end playmakers.

Defense [17:46–20:56]

• Analysis: New Penn State DC Jim Knowles vs. Oregon’s rising talent.
• Danny Kanell: “Penn State deserves the pedigree—been more consistent.” [18:23]
• Tom Fornelli: Highlights depth and home advantage for the Nittany Lions. [19:07]
• Bud Elliott: “Very small edge to Penn State... Bear Alexander could flip this for Oregon if he plays his best.” [20:03]
• Consensus: Small but real edge to Penn State.

Coaching [21:23–23:19]

• Comparison: James Franklin vs. Dan Lanning.
• Bud Elliott: “Penn State, ever so slightly – mainly prefer their DC.” [21:23]
• Danny Kanell: “Will Stein has been a genius... Dan Lanning is one of the best motivators.” [21:57]
• Tom Fornelli: “Lanning is the far more aggressive coach on game day... that’s always my preference.” [22:40]
• Consensus: Leaning Oregon, based on game-day aggressiveness and offensive innovation.

X-Factors & Storylines [24:33–27:26]

• Bud Elliott: “Jim Knowles’ game plan is going to matter a lot... will Penn State pressure Moore?” [24:33]
• Tom Fornelli: “Has Penn State just been going half-speed, or is this who they are?” [25:38]
• Danny Kanell: “Biggest X-factor for me: Does Drew Aller get involved in the run game?” [26:42]
• Chip Patterson: Notes Penn State OC’s history with mobile QBs, so expect prepared wrinkles. [27:26]

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Ohio State at Washington: Big Game Breakdown

Purpose: Assess two new starting QBs’ first huge Big Ten test in a hostile environment.

Quarterback Battle [28:30–31:27]

• Danny Kanell: “Demond Williams is one of the better kept secrets in college football... this is a great test for Julian Sayin.” [29:27]
• Bud Elliott: “Ohio State's defensive backfield is so veteran and good...” [30:47]
• Tom Fornelli: Key factor is how Sayin handles Husky Stadium’s hostile noise: “You’ve never played in an environment like this...” [31:27]

Washington’s Corners vs. OSU WRs [33:22–35:43]

• Chip Patterson: Highlights matchup between Washington’s 6’4” corners and OSU's Jeremiah Smith/Carnell Tate.
• Tom Fornelli: “You really can’t take [Smith] out of the game unless Ohio State chooses to.” [34:16]
• Danny Kanell: “Big corners absolutely help but Jeremiah Smith is a beast... don’t force the ball, especially for a young QB.” [34:54]
• Bud Elliott: Washington must be healthy. “You really need your studs to play.” Notes pass rush without blitzing is a Washington strength, but not yet proven against elite lines. [35:43]

Upset Alert Meter [36:38–38:55]

• Bud Elliott: “Two or three. If Washington was full strength, maybe more. I don’t think Ohio State has much to worry about here.” [37:15]
• Tom Fornelli: “Three and a half. Washington needs to establish the run, but OSU’s run defense is a monster.” [37:33]
• Danny Kanell: “Four and a half. Parity is here... but still pretty low.” [38:21]
• Chip Patterson: “Crank it up to a six... if Ohio State takes it lightly, they could get got.” [38:55]

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USC at Illinois: Rebound or Statement? [41:03–45:08]

• Tom Fornelli: “The injury report. Illinois’ secondary is battered... USC’s passing attack could exploit this.” [41:44]
• Strategy: Illinois should slow the game, lean into the run to protect the D, and avoid a shootout.
• Danny Kanell: “This is a 9am body clock for USC. I think we’ll learn more about USC here than about Illinois.” [43:22]
• Bud Elliott: “USC has been a poor road team under Lincoln Riley, but maybe better this year. All comes down to injuries – Illinois’s backups have played like backups.” [44:08]
• Interior O-line remains a USC concern; otherwise, the team looks much improved. [45:08]

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Players to Watch: Big Ten Week 5 [46:21–47:30]

• Danny Kanell: “Makai Lemon, USC WR — explosive, 4th in country in receiving yards” [46:21]
• Tom Fornelli: “Isaiah Jones, Indiana LB — 16 tackles, 6.5 for loss, 3 sacks... He’ll be key vs. Iowa.” [46:41]
• Bud Elliott: “Malik Benson, Oregon WR — needs to show up against good teams for Oregon to win.” [47:17]
• Chip Patterson: “Jonah Coleman, Washington RB — also key receiving threat; will need big games if OSU loads up on Denzel Boston.” [47:30]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Danny Kanell (on Drew Aller):
  “I hate this question because it should be a slam dunk... that I even have to sit here and debate it... is flabbergasting to me.” [03:17]

• Tom Fornelli (on coaching styles):
  “Lanning is the far more aggressive coach on game day than James Franklin... that's the direction I always prefer.” [22:40]

• Bud Elliott (on Penn State’s defense):
  “Small edge to Penn State... Bear Alexander could flip this if he plays his best.” [20:03]

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Summary Table: Tale of the Tape (Oregon vs. Penn State)

| Category | Edge | Rationale | |--------------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Quarterback | Penn State | Experience and home-field advantage, but Moore is surging. | | Running Back | Penn State | Singleton/Allen best duo, though gap isn’t huge. | | Pass-Catchers | Oregon | Decorian Moore & Kenyon Sadiq are difference-makers; PSU improved but lacks stars. | | Defense | Penn State | Deeper DL & secondary, new DC, but Oregon offers upside. | | Coaching | Oregon | Lanning’s aggression on game day gives Ducks the nod. |

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers a thorough breakdown of the Big Ten’s most impactful week 5 games, highlighting position group strengths, key coaching philosophies, injury concerns, and pressure points for each contender. The crew’s chemistry, layered insights, and blend of statistics with intangibles create an engaging listen—and this summary ensures you’re fully caught up even if you missed it.

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[End of summary]

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

And welcome Back to the COVID 3 podcast here on CBS Sports. That's Tom Fenelli, that's Bud Elliott, that's Danny Cannell. I'm Chip Patterson coming to you live on CBS Sports Network. Fired up to get you set for a massive week ahead in the Big Ten. We got top 10 matchups, we got even more ranked on ranked and we've got a very tricky road trip for the number one team in the country, the the Ohio State Buckeyes. So a lot to get into, big game breakdowns, diving into the matchup. And gentlemen, if it's okay with you, we are going to start with a little tale of the tape in this Big Ten title game rematch between the Oregon Ducks and the Penn State Nittany Lions. Now for Penn State, what a massive moment as they've been kind of working their way through the early season schedule and then the Ducks may be starting a little bit lower on the radar than Penn State. Just an absolute war machine early. And so when we're starting to look at how these teams are stacking up, you can see based on the stats there is some decided advantages in term in favor of the Ducks. But we know that Penn State maybe had been doing a little load management. Maybe they had been just making sure they do enough to get warm and get loose with that experienced roster. So we have to do some real clarity exercises we have to go through and and we've got to be able to determine who's got the best at each of the different positions. We did this with Ohio State Texas leading into week one. We're very excited to do it here. Leading into week five, we are going to break down our full tale of the tape. We need to figure out which team has a better quarterback, which team has the better running backs, which teams have the better wide receivers, which teams have the advantage on defense and of course, on the sidelines with coaching. So, Danny Cannell, going to start with you. On one side we've got Drew Aller, much more experience, a lot higher expectations coming into the season. On the other side we've got Dante Moore, who has been more productive now, albeit like I mentioned, with a little bit of a different sort of game outlay. Who do you think has the advantage between Oregon and Penn State at the quarterback position?

[C]

I hate this question because it should be a slam dunk. It should be an absolute slam dunk. This is Drew Hours and it's not even close. And the fact that I even have to sit here and debate it for just in my mind for a couple seconds is flabbergasting to me because so far this season we haven't seen. Did you see the passing touchdown numbers? We put up only five passing touchdowns on the year, 78th in the country. That's so pedestrian from a player that we all thought had to take that next step. Do you know the last time that Drew hour threw for 250 passing yards? It was all back, all the way back to the USC game, which they won in overtime. That was a lot. 250 passing yards. That is not, I didn't even go 300 passing. I don't have to how far you have to go back for that. All that being said, experience does come into play. Like if you said, who do I want to start a program with? I'd probably say Dante Moore. But because of the experience, because it's at home, I'm going to grow with Drew Aller. But I almost feel like I'm going to regret this after the game. But I think you have to go to the quarterback that does have two years starting experience. He does have playoff experience. He's played in the Big Ten championship game. So I'm going to go with Drew Aller. But I think this is way closer than I think I want to admit.

[A]

Gentlemen.

[B]

I, I agree with Danny. I, I, I do think it's far closer than you probably would have thought during the off season. Just considering all the talk and hype surrounding Penn State. I think it really depends how you want to look at it. If you want to go with the experience, if you want to go with the guy who's been in these kind of games before and the guy who's going to be playing at home in front of his home crowd and electric environment, then you lean Drew Aller if you're going to go with how they've actually played in 2025, I, I don't think it's close. I think Dante Moore has been far better than Drew Ellery. We talked about those touchdown stats there. Here's another one. Bud's probably aware of this. If you go to PFF for big time throws. Dante Moore's made seven big time throws this year. Drew Aller's made one. That's it. Now Grant. Yeah, we could talk about the fact that Penn State has probably been in neutral for most of the season to this point against their non conference slate, but still I would like to think that my great quarterback, the guy who's going to be one of the players leading me to a Big Ten title in the playoff, is able to make a few bigger throws against this, you know, bad competition. But to this point we just haven't seen it. Now maybe they're SAF saving it for this game. Maybe they're going to come out and he's going to be firing the ball all over the field, tear this Oregon defense apart. Or maybe Drew Eller is just who Drew Eller is and has been for the last few years and Dante Moore is somebody with the higher ceiling who's going to be the better quarterback in this game. So I'm leaning more. I think that if you look at this season alone, the tail of the tape is on Oregon side.

[D]

Here, look so far this season I think you have to lean Dante Moore. I'm really just split on this. I've seen Draller track record before. We know he's a guy who is certainly capable of making big time throws. Dante has certainly made some big time throws. He's not made a lot of big time throws under pressure and to me like that, that's probably the differentiator here. We have not seen him pressured much this year. Obviously Oklahoma State is awful, Oregon State's awful. Purdue's defense certainly is really not good at all. So in Northwestern's the same. I just don't really think here that we have seen Dante have to operate from dirty pockets and make those big time throws. I'm going to lean on the track record and go with Drew.

[A]

Okay. Thank goodness we're not just sitting here just because the question is for this game, right? The question's not handing out awards for the first month of the season. We're saying for this game and yeah, for this game I think that Drew Aller playing at home with the track record, with the experience, what do they call them they call him Coach K. Right. Andy Kotelniki, that offensive coordinator, Coach Kate has been working with Drew Aller trying to get him ready. And as he's been working a little bit on his body type, something he told us at Big Ten media days, let's see if he takes off and. And runs a little bit. Shows some of that new mobility as he shed a couple pounds. Okay. From the quarterbacks to their offensive backfield mates, the running back position. Talk about a known. The. The known quantity of Nick Singleton and Katron Allen. One of the best one, two punches in college football has been for quite some time for Penn State, for running back at Oregon. I would say it's been one of the curveballs with the Ducks in terms of we were so locked in on, you know, Makai Hughes, the big transfer from Tulane. But instead, it has been very much a committee approach, and it has been an approach that has been productive so far because it doesn't matter whether it is Whittington, it doesn't matter whether it is Lamar. There. There are lots of different contributors who are out there getting it done. Bud, I'll let you get first crack at this. How do you hand out the tail of the tape? Is this easy from the jump to just hand it to Penn State, or do you think that Oregon's maybe got a little bit more of an argument here with that running back by committee?

[D]

Yeah, Chip. And I don't want to slight Oregon here because I think Jaden Lamar has played really well for them and they clearly have a nice stable of backs. But, you know, for me, it definitely is easy. I think Singleton and Allen are total studs and, you know, probably the best duo in the country, with all due respect to the guys there in South Bend. So, yeah, I think this one is pretty easy. I'm going to give it to Penn State.

[B]

Yeah, I'll go with Penn State here as well. I think obviously between Allen and Singleton, you do have the household names everybody's aware of, but I do think that as a whole, Oregon's group of running backs is performing very well. And while if you look at what Penn State's done so far this season, I think Katron Allen's played very well and Nick Singleton has five touchdowns. But other than that, I don't feel like Singleton's been the best version of himself that we have seen, I feel like he was. He. He was far more explosive last year, and we have not seen that really to this point. So I still think overall, talent wise, those two are very good. And I would take both of them over any of Oregon's running backs right now, but I don't think the gap is as wide as it it should be.

[C]

Agreed. Especially considering the expectation coming into the season because it hasn't been only Drew Aller that they really have struggled to really get going the way you would expect. While they've been impressive and Catron Allen has delivered, I would agree with you on Nick Singleton has sort of been underwhelming so far, so I think it's as well. It's a clean sweep for us right here. Chip, you making it across the board?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. But it's interesting though, we're starting to build out some momentum here in the tail of the tape. A check at quarterback for Penn State. A check it running back for Penn State. Tom, I want to hear from you first here because Penn State, one of the great challenges for James Franklin was with so many knowns on this roster, what was he going to do to help Drew Aller in terms of reloading that wide receiver position? You go and you get Kyron Hudson from USC in the first portal window, then picking up Trevor Pena in the second portal window. Both of those receivers currently 1 and 2 in terms of receptions and receiving yards. But is that enough when you've got Decoran Moore, one of the star breakout freshmen right there for Oregon, Gary Bryant, a few other. And if we want to include Sadiq as well, one of the best tight ends in the country. Let's call it wide receivers slash pass catchers. Tom, who has the edge in this matchup?

[B]

Yeah, if. If we're just going to go pass catchers here, I. I'm leaning towards Oregon and I think if they still had a healthy Evan Stewart, this would be kind of a runaway for the Ducks. But they don't. But if I'm going to go for the most talented receiver between these two teams, it's Oregon's decor and more. If I'm going to go for the most talented tight end between these two teams, it' Kenyan Sadiq at Oregon. So I think they have the two best players. That said, I don't think that the gap is huge. I think that the. The Kyron Hudson and Trevor Pena have come in. They have played very well. They've productive to this point. Far more productive than we saw for most of Penn State's receivers last season. So I do think that they have improved that spot. It's just they don't really have the Tyler Warren right now. They don't have the stud option that they're able to go to, but that might be for the better. They become far less predictable on offense that way. But I think this is a very close one. But right now my edge goes to the Ducks.

[D]

Tom, I'm there with you, but I think this is probably closer to a draw than some of these other categories. I clearly Decoran Moore, in my opinion is the best receiver in this game. I agree with you on Sadiq. My question really becomes the the number two there for the Ducks. So Malik Benson at Alabama and at Florida State when he had to play good competition, he disappeared. He was a guy that with his speed would crush bad competition, but he but he couldn't really run real routes and and he couldn't make contested catches. If Penn State is deciding to take away decori and Moore in this game, you're going to have to see Malik Benson actually play up against a good team which throughout his career he has failed to do. So if he doesn't end up playing up, then I think Penn State actually could have the edge here because their number two, Hudson or Pena, depending on who you think, is certainly better now than what Benson has been in his career so far. But he's had an encouraging start to this year so I have to see if that can continue.

[C]

So I might be the only one that thinks this is a little bit more of a separator. I think it's Oregon for like and I think it does have to do with two players and Decori and Moore and Kenny Sadiq who are really special. Like you mentioned having the game plan for Decor and more really trying to shut him down. Is there a receiver for Penn State that really just strikes fear? You're like, we cannot let that guy beat you. I don't know. They're all pretty good and they're a good wide receiving core. But decori Moore early, the way they've been using him, they've moved him all around the field. His route tree is pretty developed for a true freshman. He's shown the ability to pop the top off his ball adjustment skills, make some back shoulder throws has been really back shoulder catches has been really impressive. Now we'll see more physical, more competition. It should be a bigger challenge for him. And then Kenny Sadiq is a unicorn it feels like. And I know Luke Reynolds hasn't exactly been Tyler Warren. Those were massive shoes to fill. But Kenyon Siddiq is an absolute stud. So I'll give the edge to the Ducks. I think it's a little bit more clear cut for me.

[A]

All right. So that's a check market quarterback for Penn State, a check market running back for Penn State, a check market wide receiver for Oregon. Couple more categories to go. We got to figure out who's got the edge on defense, who's got the edge on coaching and the storylines we're watching in this top 10 matchup. So coming up on the other side, continuing to break down Oregon at Penn State and more next.

[B]

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[C]

Killing me coming to these on what I think are the tougher ones.

[B]

This is not a tough poor.

[C]

See, I think it is. I think it is a tougher one. I'm going to go with Penn State. Denied. Dennis Sutton has Kind of picked off in this lineage of great pass rushers that have been there. Zane Durant's been incredible in the middle of that defense. The secondary has been incredible. They've looked the part so far. AJ Harris is playing spectacular. I'll go with, I'll go with Penn State. I do think they deserve the pedigree. They've been more consistent. But I don't want to overlook Oregon because of players like Mateo Uyongole, Bruce Betcher at linebackers, really solid. The interior of that defensive line has been better. I, I think it's closer, but I'll go with Penn State.

[B]

I mean, the hardest part of this comparison is that they haven't played anybody yet really, that it's going to make give you a really, truly great idea of who they are. We're not really going to know until these two are lined up across the field from each other on Saturday night. But just based on the talent level, based on the coordinator, based on everything, I, I give Penn State a slight edge statistically. They've been a little bit better against the run this year than Oregon has. They've had more of a pass rush to this point than Oregon has. But there's also been plenty of times where Oregon's just been, you know, when they're up 60 against Oklahoma State and they're not exactly bringing the house, they're kind of just sitting there and, you know, killing some clocks. So it's hard to say definitively. I think they're both very good and I think they're probably both going to be top 10 at worst in the nation by the time the season ends. But right now I think Penn State gets my edge. And also the fact that they're going to be at home, they're going to have the crowd on their side screaming their heads off every time they're on the field to distract the Oregon offense. So I give the edge to the nitty line.

[D]

I, I think it's a very small edge to Penn State for all the points that the guys you know before me have raised. There is a name for the Ducks though, who could flip this, and that's Bear Alexander. He's not always the most consistent guy, but like on body types, on ability, like his best is probably the best of anybody in this game. We just don't see his best all that often. But if he decides this Saturday he's going to play up, he's a guy who could single handedly wreck this game and give it to the Ducks.

[C]

He's been so has he been starting because Amari Washington and has been playing more in the D tackle position. But I think this is a year that's huge for Bear. He's kind of coasted a little bit. You wonder if this is sort of his draft year where he's trying to flip the switch. This would be the game you would expect to see the best of Bear Alexander for sure.

[D]

Yeah, he hasn't been anything special so far. Just, just, you know, decent. He's played about 100 snaps, but, like, you've seen some flashes. You just, you need the consistency.

[A]

So if I'm to like, push this further to one side, I, if you're going to give me Oregon's linebackers, I would take that. But I think Penn State's better on the defensive line. I think Penn State's better in the secondary. So, you know, two to one, little bit of balance, I'm going to give the check mark to Penn State's defense. Okay, what about James Franklin on one side, Dan Lanning on the other? Bud Elliot, who has the advantage when it comes to coaching?

[D]

Man, it's just so tough because obviously I think you have to have a tremendous amount of respect for both staffs. You know, cuddle Nikki and Knowles there in Penn State and obviously they have a great staff as well at Oregon. I mean, I think it's a coin flip, right? Both guys have won a tremendous amount of games. Both guys have really struggled to win in the big game. Luckily for them, somebody has to win this weekend. So, man, I guess Penn State because I think I like their DC better. But Lanning also has his fingers in the Oregon defense, so I, I, Penn State, like ever so slightly.

[C]

You went Penn State.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

But yeah, all right, I'll go. I, I think it's close, but I'll go. Dan Lanning as far as India, totality of the staff. Will Stein has been an absolute genius offensively, the way he's been able to develop quarterbacks. Dante Moore just feels like he's running a lot of the same things. Dylan Gabriel is. I, I think Tosh Lupoise, one of the better defense coordinators, probably didn't get enough credit. And then I don't know if there's a better. You know, it's funny because was talking to Matt Rule last week. I think he's incredible getting his team ready to go for him. Dan Lanning might be one of the best motivators for a game specifically like this on the road, and yet they don't have that many great road wins either. But I'LL give the slight edge to Dan Lanning.

[B]

Dan Lanning's great motivator. He's going to clip what Bud just said about James Franklin being better than him. He's going to be playing it in his office all week, getting hyped for this game, but he won't have to include me. I think this is a very even matchup. Like a lot of the things in this game, I think that the coordinators on both sides, Will Stein, Tosh Lapoy, Jim Knowles, Andy Kotelniki are fantastic. The one thing that really tilts me towards Oregon's favor though, when this is very close, is Dan Lanning is the far more aggressive coach on game day than James Franklin. When the moment gets tough, James Franklin sometimes goes conservative. Lanning is always putting his foot down on the gas pedal. That's the direction I always prefer. So Lanning gets an edge here from me.

[A]

Do you all remember in the 2023 season when Lanning they failed on the fourth down but he came back and he said I would do it again against Washington. That speaks what you're talking about. He has an identity. He doesn't waffle. He is the same aggressive. Do it because that's what we believe that we can do. I. I'm with you. I go Advantage Dan Lanning advantage Oregon. I think big game. James has shed a little bit of the, you know, the anecdotal evidence that points to him not being ready or having his team ready for these moments. But still some of the decision making in terms of conservative versus aggressive. I agree with you, Tom. I think that landing maybe a little bit of an edge right there. So to review, we've got Oregon advantage at quarterback. I mean, excuse me, we got Penn State advantage at quarterback, Penn State advantage at running back. We've got Oregon advantage at wide receiver and pass catchers. We've got Penn State advantage at defense. And then we've got Oregon advantage at coaching. That is three to Penn State. That is two to Oregon. Bud, what do you think we have missed in our analysis here? What's some X factors or some storylines that will end up determining this matchup?

[D]

So if you watch the rematch in the Rose bowl last year when Jim Knowles largely shut down Oregon until garbage time, you saw a Penn State team that denied the run, they denied the explosive play, they allowed the short catch and they tackled really well. I think that's exactly what Penn State is going to have to do here against the Ducks. I am curious though, if they decide to do things a little bit differently Might they bring some more pressure? Might they try to put their hands on Decori and Moore and on Malik? Might they say, hey Dante Moore, you have made some difficult throws. You've not had to make a whole lot of tight window throws and certainly not with a lot of pressure around you. You know, can like Will Stein, the Oregon offense coordinator does such a tremendous job of getting these free access throws and these run after catch opportunities for his guys. If you're Penn State, you know, do you make Oregon be a little more patient? Do you make that like take away that first read and make them sit a little bit more? I think that like Jim Knowles game plan here is going to matter a lot in this game, especially with, you know, clearly the most amount of pressure in terms of pass rush that Dante is going to have faced. And also like the crowd, you know, the crowd noise there with Penn State.

[B]

I just want to know if Penn State can flip the switch or if this is just who Penn State is. The team that we've been watching because we've talked about it a lot. They've looked like a team that's kind of just going at half speed and what's a non conference slate that has not been challenging in any aspect form. So you're at home top 10 team coming the team you lost to in the Big Ten championship. It's a wide out. It's going to be crazy. It's going to be insane. Will that atmosphere from the crowd kind of partake in what Penn State's trying to do on the field? Because if you look at them statistically, man, like they're passing attack, they are 66th in EPA per drop back, they're 89th in explosive pass rate. And in the red zone they're scoring 4.59 points per trip. That ranks only 58th. Now you could say they're only going half speed, but they're also doing it against nobody. And typically elite teams, even against nobody, when they're not trying that hard, perform far better than Penn State has to this point in the season. So this is huge for me. This is going to be the biggest part of the game. Do Penn State take it up a notch and play at a different level. Whereas the team we've seen through their first three or four games of the year just who they are and are they in for a world of hurt against this Oregon squad?

[C]

I want to see the wrinkles, the things we haven't seen yet. We've all mentioned it several times, like what are they holding back? And I think that Means for offense and defense. I feel like Penn State hoping they have hold back a lot because they haven't looked that good against the lesser competition. But I will say the biggest X factor for me. Do you guys remember what Drew Aller told us when he talked about trimming down? Do you remember what he said? He said he wanted to be a little bit more athletic in the run game. We haven't seen that yet. In the Big Ten championship game against Oregon he did have 54 yards rushing. He has not thrown or he's not run the ball very much so far. I wonder a couple things. One, does he scramble and do they have designed RPO option type action for Drew Aller to get involved in the run game? Just something to keep an eye out for with Drew allergies.

[A]

Great call Danny. I mean this is where I have to remember that before Penn State Andy Kotelniki had Jalen Daniels in which you definitely built in some of those, you know, RPO designed quarterback run concepts. Great call. We'll be keeping an eye on that from Penn State's quarterback in this matchup again that is Saturday night Oregon at Penn State. But big time matchup leading into that because in the afternoon on CBS it will be the Ohio State Buckeyes taking on Washington out in Seattle. And coming up on the other side, everything that you need to know about the matchup, it's big game breakdown between the Buckeyes and the Huskies and more next back here on the COVID 3 podcast live on CBS Sports Network. Going inside the matchup with a big game breakdown for big time. It is number one Ohio State going across the country to go play Washington out in Seattle, Husky Stadium, Sailgate and all. And for this matchup, man we've got a very fascinating head to head of two new starting quarterbacks. Of course Julian saying taken over for Ohio State and Demond Williams though he got a good bit of run and a bowl game for Washington last year. This has been his first season as the full fledged undoubted QB1DK, our resident quarterback here on the COVID 3 podcast. We're not going to do tale of the tape. We did that earlier but I do want to get your analysis how you've graded each of these quarterbacks. You know Julian saying that enough against a very good Texas defense early then things have been a little bit lighter going through Grambling in Ohio. Demond Williams of course with eight touchdowns and zero interceptions. Two of those coming on the ground also has the Huskies off to a three and oh start. Danny, what do you make of what you've seen from both these quarterbacks so far this year.

[C]

When I see that graphic Demon Williams holding the football, I just remember how small he is because that ball looks huge in his hands and he was not as big as we thought he was going to potentially be. That point aside, I think they've both been really, really good. I think everybody kind of knows about Julian saying because of the hype that was surrounding him coming in and he's done a great job operating the system. He looks very comfortable within it. But his first road start, this will be a great opportunity for him to take that next step forward. Like, he's passed all the tests that he's had so far. This is sort of the next evolution of being the quarterback at Ohio State. Now you have to take it on the road. The other quarterback in Demon Williams, I think is one of the better kept secrets in college football. He's been incredibly dynamic. I was actually talking to Jed Fish before the game when we were out at Nebraska and he came on our pregame show and he tended to agree. He's like, man, he's like, we have a special quarterback. And that is one aspect to Demon Williams game that can wreak havoc on any defense, no matter how good you are, is the ability to run the football and get it done with your legs. And he's been very protective of it, has not turned the ball over, been close to perfect. So I think this is a really, really fun matchup and a really good test for Ohio State in one of the better atmospheres in college football. That's sort of one of the better kept secrets, their quarterback and the environment out there in Seattle.

[D]

Yeah, I'm really excited about the battle of play callers here. Ryan Day obviously designing that offense and o' Brien calling it. But like Jed Fish, I think he's such a great designer of offense. He finds ways to feed their studs and make things pretty easy. You know, for Demond Williams, the issue is, gosh, so Ohio State defensive backfield is so veteran and so good and all the backers can run and cover and they can show you such a great variety of looks and they're clearly going to try to scheme to take away Boston, the stud receiver, you know, for the Huskies. I'm curious to see what the other options look like for Washington and how much they can get Demon Williams legs involved as well.

[B]

Yeah, I think it, you know, we showed the stats earlier, the breakdown between Williams and Saying, and I think it needs to be mentioned that a lot of the damage that Julian Saying did came against Grambling in Ohio. Like he made up a lot of numbers for after a pretty pedestrian performance against Texas in his first start, which not knocking him for that's one of the best defenses in the country you're going up against in your first career start. So it's not like I expected him to come out and play fantastic, but I do think that this is another big test. And after what we saw from him against Texas, this isn't something that we should just look at his numbers and say, oh, he's been great. He's going to come. He's going to tear this Washington defense apart. Because as Danny talked about, Husky Stadium is a very difficult stadium to play in for opposing teams. Washington in the playoff era, if you take out the 2020 Covid season when there weren't any fans in the stands, they're 55 and 15 at home, that win percentage ranks 18th nationally. And you have to think, if you're Julian saying you've never played in an environment like this where while you're at the line of scrimmage trying to get the calls in, trying to do everything, the crowd is screaming, the stadium is shaking, you could barely hear your own thoughts. So what kind of procedural mistakes might we see them make at the line of scrimmage before the snap? That could lead to problems, that could lead to turnovers, it could lead to short fields for Washington to help them keep them in the game. But on the other side of this, you know, if you look at Ryan Day since he's come at Ohio State, this is an insane statistic in true road games. Ohio State is 21 and three under Ryan Day. They have lost fewer games on the road under Day than they have at home. This has been a team that's gone on the road and performed very well. And to Bud's point, you look at their defense, they're going to be able to keep their, the Buckeyes in the game. No matter what happens with this offense. The question will be, can Ohio State avoid the mistakes? Can they finally start leaning more on their run game than we've seen them do to this point to help move the ball, which they weren't really able to do against Texas to help out Julian saying and not put too much on his shoulders? I think that's going to be a huge matchup in this game.

[A]

Another matchup that I've definitely got my eye on. It just. I have a, I have a great memory, many great memories from our time at Big Ten media days. But Tom, when you looked lovingly into Jed Fish's eye and you saw him in man to man, you said you have a type. You have a type and it's a 64 cornerback that's about 200 pounds. Dicario Davis is that type of throw in. So Takario Davis at one cornerback position, price socket the other one, another six four, 200 some odd pound player. You know those types of bodies are what you are going to need to try and contain Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate and the rest of these Ohio State wide receivers. Bud just gave a great example of Ohio State, how they're trying to defend Denzel Boston, who is among the best wide receivers in the country. But what about the alpha? How does Washington contain Jeremiah Smith? Tom, how do you think it happens? Happens?

[B]

I I think you're probably going to shade coverage to him like a second guy, whether it's over the top or just underneath and you're going to try to force them to go other directions. You're going to want to make Julian saying get through progressions. You're just going to want to take away the first read and Jeremiah Smith's going to be the first read many times. But if you're Ohio State, perhaps you counter that and you don't make maybe Jeremiah Smith. We've seen them do this before, Ohio State, Marvin Harrison. There were quite a few games where Marvin Harrison was just a decoy. He was attracting attention and Ohio State went to other guys. I wouldn't be surprised if we see something similar here because you can maybe slow down Jeremiah Smith. You really can't take him out of the game unless Ohio State chooses to.

[C]

That's what's so good about having a guy like Carnell Tate that you have as an option if they are shading coverage. Last year was a mecca. Buka who obviously parlayed that into a first round draft pick. I mean it's pretty nice to have a plethora of weapons. But I do think this is one where you know, if you call him a decoy then you're not even thinking about them. But I do think when you give a young quarterback like Julian saying, you're going to call your plays accordingly and that's where it becomes a priority for Julian saying to recognize are they shading coverage or is there an opportunity still to go to Jeremiah Smith or do I want to get through my progressions, get off of him, get to some of the other routes. So something to keep an eye on having bigger corners does absolutely help. Jeremiah Smith is an absolute Beast, I don't think you're going to stop him altogether. You just have to make sure you're not trying to force the ball to him, which can be a tendency for a younger quarterback, especially first big start on the road.

[D]

And to your point about rolling coverage like is, is Takario Davis going to play for Washington? Because you know he missed last week. We already know one of their stud linebackers is out for this game. They've been hoping to get Javon Parker, their best defensive lineman back for a while now, but again, he did not play last week. Washington is not a team that has a depth of studs on defense. You really need your studs to play so you're already down the backer. We don't know yet about, you know, arguably their best corner. Although Ephesians price sock has been, you know, really revelation for them. I think the problem is Ohio State has so many weapons that if you do over commit to taking away Jeremiah Smith, that's just going to be easy throws for Julian saying Washington though is one of the very best in the nation so far at pressure rate without blitzing. So that defensive line has gotten pressure. But again we do have to ask like who have they actually played? Ohio State. We have already seen them do an okay job blocking an elite Texas front.

[A]

Yep. We will keep an eye on Davis's status listed as the starter on the game week depth chart by Washington, but of course we'll get injury reports official and unofficial as well. Keep it locked into 24, seven sports for all the latest on that. Okay, Bud, let's just make this simple. It is Husky Stadium and we've talked about that environment. This is the number one team in the country. This is, they got tested certainly. But on their own home field against Texas, on a scale of 1 to 10, bud, how much of an upset alert is the Ohio State Buckeyes under right now?

[D]

I'd say like a two or three, I expect. Yeah, I, I, guys like if, if Washington was full strength then I would believe it more. But I don't think they have a depth of special players in this team. I think they need their studs to be studs. I think they need their studs to be on the field. I don't think Ohio State has much to worry about here.

[B]

I would put it at a three and a half and I don't know if I would go much higher than that. I think if you're Washington, you're going to want to establish your ground game which you've been outstanding at, don't get me wrong to start the season, Jonah Coleman, Adam Muhammad, Damond Williams, they've combined for 712 yards on the ground, 6.4 per attempt with 13 touchdowns. But this Ohio State run defense is a monster. So that Washington offensive line, with Carver, Willis and Drew as a party at tackle, the Hatchet brothers on the inside, they're going to have to win a lot of battles consistently to kind of move those dudes out of the way. And that's been very hard because Kaden McDonald and Will Smith on the Ohio State defensive line have been outstanding to start the season. So it's, it's an uphill battle for them. I think that you need to hope that your crowd helps turn the ball over with Julian. Saying it confuses him causes some problems and that you're able to just move the ball on the ground.

[C]

I'll go four and a half. I think the point spread is pretty interesting, the fact that it's not over double digits. The odds makers maybe think this a little bit closer. I have my concerns about Washington's defense, you know, slowing down Jeremiah Smith and this Ohio State attack. They haven't exactly been airtight against lesser competition so far this year. So, like, do you picture a shootout of Demon, Williams and company going back and forth with Ohio State? Probably not, but I think parody is here. I think this is still one of the best rosters in college football. I don't think it would be crazy to see an upset, but I'll put it at four and a half. Still pretty low.

[A]

Crank that baby. No, no, this is a six. This is a. Watch out. Like, this is. This is a. This is going to have the entire nation like, wait a second, why is that only a seven point game right now? That's what I think that the eight and a half is perfect because Ohio State will have this way too close late. And then we get to find out whether Julian Saying can grow up on the fly in the fires of Husky Stadium. I do think Ohio State ends up winning, but I, I'm gonna crank this up to a six. If Ohio State does takes anything lightly about this matchup, they could go and get got by Husky Stadium. So I'll give it just a little bit higher, but ultimately let it be read into the record. I do think the Buckeyes come out of Week 5 with a zero in the loss column. Well, coming up on the other side, we've got a big bounce back moment for Brett Bielma and the Fighting Illini as USC is coming to town. How does Illinois rebound from the loss to Indiana and can USC get it done away from home? All that and more Next.

[B]

I'm Christian McCaffrey, pro running back and Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of the NFL. I'm not kidding when I say NFL by Abercrombie broke the Internet last year and I think this season's lineup is even cooler. And so does my wife who keeps stealing all my hoodies. Stay fit for the season and Abercrombie's newest arrivals shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app, online and in store. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[A]

Learn [e-mail] back here on the COVID 3 podcast, running through some of the biggest games on the Big Ten schedule for week five. And we've got USC on the road taking on an Illinois team that is very much licking its wounds. And I do this not because I want Tom to relive Saturday night. I do not. But no one's going to have a better insight in the way that the fighting line I can respond from that lopsided loss to Indiana. Now they're playing back at home. It's a big stage. Tom, what is going to be the key to Illinois making sure that one loss doesn't become two with USC in town?

[B]

The injury report. I mean this was, we talked about it like Illinois was already banged up in the secondary before the game started and then they got more banged up as they went along. You know, Xavier Scott is still going to be out. Matthew Bailey, their starting safety, has been in concussion protocol all week. There is no guarantee that he will be back for this game. So if you look at that in the back end and what USC is bringing with Jade Ma and Mai Lemon and Jacobe Lane and just an incredible passing attack so far this season, I would be terrified if I'm Illinois and I'm still really banged up on my back end because that is something that USC will very much be able to exploit. And I think that the likely counter that you're going to see from the aligni is this is a team that to this point has only run the ball 50% of the time, which ranks 87th nationally as far as rushing rate it's, you know, teams are throwing more and more shock of all shocks. But the USC's defense, it's better than what we've seen in recent years and it is improving. But the one spot where I've seen a weakness so far this year, both statistically and just with my eyes, is their run defense. So if you're Illinois, your defense is incredibly banged up and you're facing an explosive passing offense, you're probably going to want to lean more into your run game to which this, this point in the year has not been outstanding. So it's going to be a problem for them, but they're going to have to do it just to keep that defense off the field and try to shorten this game and limit the overall possessions because you do not want to get into a shootout with this USC team with the current state of your roster, even if your passing attack has been good so far this year. So I expect very much a more old school Brett Bielema at Wisconsin kind of offense than the one we've seen at Illinois so far.

[C]

Are we ready for the body clock conversation yet? Because this is a 9am Body clock for USC. We'll see how they are getting up in this one. I think I want, I think we'll learn more about USC in this game than Illinois. Like, I feel like I know what Illinois is now and it's not there. I don't think they're as bad as they showed there. The injuries have been documented. But if I think USC could be in that conversation the same as Indiana could be, this is a good litmus test to see if that defense, which is number one in the country in sacks, can they get after the quarterback the way that Indiana did. Can they, you know, can Jaden Ma take advantage of a secondary the way that Mendoza was able to last week? I think this is more of a litmus test for USC where we find out about them than Illinois. Very curious to see how Illinois responds here.

[D]

Completely like USC has been a poor road team under Lake and Riley so far, but I think they may be better on the road this year. I think Tom's point, this all comes down to the injury report for Illinois. Illinois's backups have played like backups when they've had, when they've had to go to starting roles. That's just not been very good. But obviously we're worried about Jacoby Lane. Like I haven't seen a new status report on him this weekend but you know, some chatter. I don't know exactly when he's going to get back us. He's a lot more dangerous when he's in the lineup. But you have Lemon, you have Waymond Jordan who's, you know, one of the very best packs in the Big Ten quarterbacks playing really well. I think it's agree with Danny. It's a test for ufc, like will you show up and beat a banged up Ilana?

[A]

But are you willing to say so far that USC has matched any kind of preseason buzz or hype or do you need to see a performance in a game like this to be able to feel better about them really like exceeding the expectations and matching some of that sort of dark horse conversation?

[D]

Yeah, I don't know if they, if they really met the the annual expectations provided by one Chip Patterson on the COVID 3 podcast, but I think they've met the preseason expectations for, you know, for most of the fans. I think some of the questions still linger, right? Do they have enough difference makers on defense? We know that their starting guard got, you know, did not get his extra year of eligibility and they were very thin at that spot. The backup has played poorly overall against some lackluster competition. So when, when they do play better defensive linemen, you know, like they'll face Jason, you know, James Thompson this week, does he get exposed right. I think the interior offensive line for USC remains a question. Good tackle play, quarterbacks taking a big step forward. I think they look much improved.

[A]

Yeah, I'd say this is prove it Saturday for the USC Trojans taking on Fighting Illini, which should be tough in champagne. Noon Eastern time kickoff for that one. Just a nice little Big Ten day of headliners. Well, speaking of headliners, coming up on the other side, we love to leave you with a player to watch each and every week. Our Big Ten players to watch for week five. Next back here on the COVID three podcast. Always love to leave you with the player to watch in the Big Ten each week. Danny Cannell, who's your player to watch?

[C]

I'm going to look at Makai Lemon. I can't wait to see this USC wide receiver, see how he does against a banged up Illinois secondary. We saw Fernando Mendoza go off with five touchdown passes. He's explosive, fourth in the country and receiving yardage. I would expect him to have a big game. We'll see if he can do it.

[B]

But I'm going to go with Indiana linebacker Isaiah Jones. Indiana's defense clearly had a very good week last week and that defensive line has received plenty of attention. But I think one of the guys who is very much benefiting from what that defensive line has been able to do has been Jones. He's got 16 tackles on the season, including six and a half for loss and three sacks. He's been a very, he's he started blitzing a lot more last week against Illinois than he had been previously and he was very effective at it. Indiana's got to follow that up on the road this week against Iowa, another vulnerable offense. I think Jones is going to have a very big game against an Iowa team looking to run the ball a lot.

[D]

I'm going to go with Malik Benson of Oregon. We've seen this at Bama, we've seen at Florida State. He kind of kills these bad teams. He kind of shrinks against the good teams. Oregon might need him to make a big play on a deep ball in this game if he plays up. I really like Duck chances to win.

[A]

And I'm going to turn your attention to Jonah Coleman, who is not only the the running back for Washington and a key to the ground game guys, he's also the team's second leading receiver in receptions and also in receiving yards. It's a lot of Denzel Boston. Denzel Boston. Denzel Boston. Go make a play, Jonah. And he's going to have to go and make some plays because I imagine, as Bud mentioned earlier, that this Ohio State secondary could have a lot of attention and a lot of pressure right there on Denzel Boston. So Jonah Coleman, the Washington running back, is my player to watch. Well, if you like what you saw, if you like what you heard, the COVID 3 podcast is live every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday at 11am Eastern Time. Of course, you can catch us live on Saturday nights. We get started about 11:30pm Eastern time with our Instant Reaction show recapping all of the action from all across college football. And if you want to, you can just hit that QR code so you can subscribe to the COVID 3 podcasts wherever you get your fine podcasts.

[D]

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[B]

You look the same. But with this camera, everything looks looks better. Especially me.

[C]

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[A]

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