← Cover 3 College Football
Cover 3 College Football
Bill Connelly On The State of College Football, Returning Production & More | Cover 3
01:00:18
Loading summary
Transcript113 lines
- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. A lot of people think podcasts about in depth analysis on college football are boring sometimes, sure. But doing the research and understanding every game gives you the knowledge that you need to make small talk with any sports fan anywhere. It's like banking with PNC Bank. It might seem boring to save, plan and make calculated decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is. It's what helps you live a more happily fulfilled life. PNC bank Brilliantly boring since 1865 Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a service mark of the PNC Financial Services Group Inc. PNC Bank national association member FDIC I'm NFL linebacker TJ Watt and this is my personal best. YPB by Abercrombie is the activewear I'm always wearing. That's why I reached out to co design their latest drop. I worked with designers to create high performance activewear that holds up to my toughest workouts. Shop YPB by Abercrombie in store, online and in the app. Because your personal best is greater than anything. Welcome Back to the COVID 3 podcast with your hosts, Chip Patterson, Tom Fernelli, Danny Cannell and Bud Elliott. It's your call for the best coverage from national signing day to the national championship and everything in between. CBS Sports presents the COVID 3 podcast.
- [01:36]
B
What's going on, y'?
- [01:37]
A
All?
- [01:37]
B
I'm Bud Elliott, that's Danny Cannell, and that's Bill Connolly. Ship isn't doing hoops today. Tom is watching. Somebody's got to man the ship, so it's us. And who better to have on than Bill? Welcome back to the show, man.
- [01:50]
A
It's been a little while. Appreciate it.
- [01:51]
B
Good to see you. To see you, dude. Couple early notes here before we get into all the returning production, the SP +Bill's general thoughts on college football do need to update our Cover 3 official bracket, which is dead because Texas lost to Xavier last night. So we, we had Texas winning when we picked them all as football teams as opposed to basketball teams that just, that kind of, uh, kind of went dead. So not, uh, not great there. But I, I want to get into some football talk here. We got a couple nice questions coming on from the chat, if you guys don't know. You know, Bill is all over ESPN college football. Also doing a little soccer. Like I've tried to read some of the soccer stuff. Like, I don't know if I understand it all, but I, I do try.
- [02:35]
A
Well, I mean, that's all that matters. That's all the effort is all that matters.
- [02:39]
B
Oh, man. All right, so we got a question for the chat here. Let's, let's start out from the COVID retail gate. You guys can flood these in if you want. We got Jonathan Parker and he says, hey guys, tailgate question from Bill. If you were a coach and you could optimize your team's performance in one key metric to improve your win total, what would it be? Office explosiveness, havoc rate, etc?
- [03:03]
A
I mean, the offensive explosiveness, that one's a lot easier said than done. You know, you don't always have control over when the big plays happen and everything, but I mean that's, there's no question. Everything coaches have always said about, you know, big plays and turnovers win games. They're absolutely right. It's hard to control those things and that's why it's a little tricky. You can't just say it and then they focus and then suddenly they make more big plays. But no, there's, I don't think there's any question if you make more off big offensive plays, you're going to win a lot more ball games.
- [03:34]
B
All right, let's, let's hit home runs. This is good. I, I want to ask you just kind of, you know, overarching here. Is there any takeaways that you have from 24 that we feel like we need to apply to 25 and going forward and maybe some stuff that you're like, ah, this feels like more noisy and is not necessarily sustainable going forward.
- [03:54]
A
Well, one of the things that I was really interested in that's almost certainly noise is I, I wanted to, I pitched a piece. We'll see exactly how this comes about in the, in the next couple of months. But I pitched a piece of basically death of the forward pass like, like Notre Dame made the national title game without being able to throw 10 yards downfield. It's, it was, it was really interesting. It just kind of, generally speaking, a lot of the, the, the national averages kind of sank a little bit in terms of passing as a whole. So I don't, you know, we know that we lost a lot of high level quarterbacks after 23 and we know, just looking at the draft class, we know that in just, you know, conceptually, maybe this, this year is. Quarterback class was down a little bit and now it'll rebound. So not really overthinking that one, but it was definitely interesting and I definitely think at least a little bit of reinforces something that has been kind of, I think we've kind of known for a little While. And. And that's, you know, in this sport, you have kind of the. The offensive life cycle. There's the innovation and offenses have all the advantages, and then the defenses adapt and, you know, it becomes more about pure talent and scheme. I guess we're definitely in that period. I think defenses definitely know what they're doing a lot more against kind of just the average college football offense than they did five, 10 years ago. Ten years ago, especially when tempo was working really well and all these things. So, yeah, I definitely think we're in the more defensive defense friendly era, and we saw that a little bit on the field. Other than that, I think it was just that, you know, the mid majors aren't as good as they were 10, 15 years ago, and it stinks. And I wish that wasn't the case.
- [05:29]
C
I love. I. I think you're spot on. I think when we were ranking, we went through the 12 teams in the playoff, and when you ranked the quarterbacks alone, it was kind of like I was making a case that Cade Klubnick was the best quarterback in the playoffs. And Tom was like, are you like, really? He's not that. And I'm like, who's better? You know, it just wasn't a great list of the. In. Some of the best quarterbacks in the country didn't even make the playoffs. Which I think speaks to what you're saying, and I think you're absolutely right, because I remember when tempo was there and you see defenses look like they were caught with their pants down, like, oh, my gosh, how do we handle this? We have one check, we go to this. And then it was like offenses were just picking them apart. Now they have counter checks. So when they see you, you know, and you just see them handle it much better, they've been prepping for it. So I think you're absolutely spot on with that. I do wonder, you know, when we see.
- [06:18]
A
I do.
- [06:18]
C
I think it's like a pendulum that swings back and forth. Like everyone was going up tempo, everyone was throwing it, looking for the explosive place or the air. Then you think about, all right, well, if you're a team that doesn't have that explosive offense, you run the ball to try to keep it away from them, and you have great defense that, you know, helps you get off the field. So I think that trend is absolutely, you know, the pendulum is swung back a little bit towards normal football. I think what we're seeing now, which is good.
- [06:41]
A
Yeah, I think that's, you know, because certainly, you know, so many of the, the innovations have been basically defenses are big and strong, so let's get smaller and faster. Then the defenses get smaller and faster, so we get bigger and stronger and just kind of go back and forth like that. It definitely feels like a period where offenses are finding more advantages. Trying to be physical against maybe smaller, not smaller. I mean the tackles are still huge and all that, but you're still, you know, five DBs is the absolute norm now as opposed to three linebackers. And so, you know, I think offenses are looking elsewhere to find advantages.
- [07:16]
B
It, it does make me wonder here. Like our defense is getting better at giving you things that are less efficient. Right. Like more too high. We're gonna stick with five DBs because we know that passing is more efficient than running by a good amount. Right. Like cool. If you guys want to run it on us maybe to like a less extent that we see in the NFL, because the NFL is so far like, so fewer running quarterbacks. And if you're 11 man run game against 2 highs is actually kind of decent oftentimes. But it's still not as good as like a great passing attack. So like, I guess I don't know what the next evolution here is. Like maybe you get so good at running the ball that teams have to get out of that two shell. But you're seeing this in the NFL as well. Like the explosive fast plays are, are down as defenses realize like we just can't give up the home runs.
- [08:01]
A
Yeah, I mean innovation usually goes up toward the NFL, but in this case you think about, you know, the Mahomes effect, so to speak, where they just backed off the safeties and said, okay, you can have anything, five, six yards by the line of scrimmage. Maybe that kind of trickled down towards the college level too where yeah, I mean, you can be as efficient as you want, but we're not going to give up big plays. And that requires offenses and quarterbacks and everything to be smart and patient and things that, you know, 20 year old dudes aren't, you know, known for being. So it's pretty effective strategy right now. I do like after 2019, I remember after kind of just the perfection of LSU's offense in terms of kind of modern touches and talent and everything else. I, I try to do a piece on, you know, how, how offense has got here, how, you know, how, how have we perfected offense, so to speak. And one of the guys I talked to was Rich Rodriguez, always a fun guy to talk to about what he thinks will come next. And he was Thinking, you know, maybe the next innovation here is that whole like, get bigger and stronger thing by getting tight ends out wide more. Whether it's blocking, whether it's creating weird matchups and all that. I think we've kind of seen that, but only with specific tight ends. The base offense isn't using, you know, tight ends lined up wide all that much. I don't think.
- [09:20]
B
Bill, you mentioned the mid majors being nowhere near as good. Obviously some of the mid majors are now in the majors. Right. Cincinnati has moved up from, you know, 10 years ago and Louisville hasn't been in the ACC for, you know, all that long. And like, a lot of these teams have been plucked into, you know, the, the Power 4 conferences. But like, if we can measure like, you know, a team that was still in, in the, you know, G5, like, like it's Memphis versus Old Memphis or, you know, Boise versus Old Boise. Yeah, like, do we think those teams are, are. How much worse are these mid majors than they used to be?
- [09:54]
A
Well, Boise, I mean, the, the best example. It's probably an unfair example because they were particularly good 15 years ago, but at their peak in the, you know, brilliant BCS era or whatever we want to call these eras, they had three straight years where they, they hit the SP + top 15. They peaked at sixth in 2011. They were easily, I think, the best mid major or really close to it. They're a very talented team. Last year that did really good things, ended up 29th in SP Plus. So I think that alone tells the story. I mean, every year, it's, every year the G5 is going to produce good teams, you know, because just alchemy, like just certain things click and, and suddenly Troy is a top 30 team. But then they lose their coach and all their good players and it's, and it's over and they have to start over. It's a lot harder to, I think, sustain success. Now. It's always been hard because you can always lose your head coach, but now you can lose your head coach and your starting quarterback and your three best receivers and half your defense. And even a team like Boise State that has a little in aisle money to play with is still going to be really having to fight and scrap to keep their best guys. I think what they've done this year is really interesting. I think they're going to be, I mean, obviously, you know, they lost the best running back in the country, but I think they still have kind of by far the most talented team in the G5 at this point in the season in the off season. And you know, you know, we'll see what that means. We'll see if they can keep this going for a few years. They're not apparently in danger of getting plucked away and put it by a power conference because that would have happened a long time ago, but we'll see how long they can keep it up.
- [11:32]
C
When you look at the transfer portal and what it's done to the game, Bud has been on this because he feels like the teams that have the means to do so early on, they might have been willing to say, all right, you're going to leave. We'll go see what the market's going to pay you. And a lot of guys left and there was really good talent that was available on the portal. The recent trend, specifically this class, was teams are like, all right, we kind of know the market. It's starting to set a little bit. We're going to pay to keep our best players. So there's not that there hasn't been that many available in the portal. Great players. Have you noticed that as well?
- [12:04]
A
Yeah, I think, you know, number one, the biggest effect in the portal is just it's more things you have to be good at and, and like Kirby Smart hasn't been quite as good at it as others either in who he lets go or who he brings in. And so that's kind of. It's been an evener in that sense, I think. But yeah, I mean, for the most part, you know, you look at the teams that just that are atop the current returning production list, it was a whole bunch of teams that were in the kind teens and twenties and thirties in SP plus last year. And we're able to kind of keep the band together. Clemson, I mean, they're, they're a brand. But Arizona State's up there, Illinois's up there, A and M is up there. Not that they ever lacked for money, but they, you know, they were able to keep a lot of their, their important guys and, and yeah, I think, you know, the, the port, the, the, the combination of the portal and the money getting more, you know, have versus have nots and all the different things that have come about have made the kind of the first and second tiers of the sport kind of closer together, I think, which is good for if you want a fun national title race. And it's, it's, it's made it just even harder for, for the G5, obviously, like right now as I calculated it for that piece last month, let's see, Big 12 was at 60 average return in production. That was the best. And it is Big 12. It's not like it was SEC and Big 10 and then it, you know, it was. Money isn't everything. I, I would say here, but The SEC was second at 59. ACC was also at 59. Those are kind of, those are a little lower than normal, but they're still pretty decent. And then you have the sun belt at 51, the AAC at 49, Mountain west at 47, and the Mac at 43 or 44. So like just good players are just getting plucked away. And it's, it's harder to sustain something at that level, but it's making those top. You know, it's, it's making a, you know, a lot more teams think they can make playoff runs. And that's not innately a bad thing. Even if it's a bad thing in another way, I guess.
- [14:01]
B
Are you seeing specific trends? Like obviously the, the, you know, G5, their returning production numbers are, are really low as they, they're the ones that don't have the money to keep their players. Whereas with the house settlement, even a lot of your lower third, you know, P4s tend to find a way to keep at least some of their studs and just throw a bunch of money at it. What, what are the implications of this though, as far as, like, I don't know, it. Does it make it so that we're very unlikely to have like a true G5 Cinderella? But also, I really can't speak with certainty as to who I think is going to win the title this year.
- [14:36]
A
Right.
- [14:36]
B
Feels so wide open.
- [14:37]
A
Yeah, that's probably the trade off is, you know, I've been one of those just begging for represent G5 representation forever and I finally got it. Now all the G5s are weaker than they would have been, you know, had this System existed in 2009. So that's absolutely been a trade off. But you're right, I mean, I look at the, you know, just my preseason projections so far. I mean, Ohio State's obviously number one. They were always going to be number one. But that's, you know, I, I have a lot of questions about Ohio State at this point, both in who they lost and, you know, who they hired as coordinators and everything else. So I, you know, I think what I wrote in, in when I put up the initial SP plus was that like number 2 and number 16 are projected closer together than they really ever than I can remember. And. Yeah, so if you want a really fun race and you Want to, we want to argue about another. A lot more three loss SEC teams. We're gonna have a lot more of them this year because there's a whole bunch of SEC teams that just packed together and whoever wins their close games is probably going to make the playoffs. So I, I think it'll, it adds to excitement, to a certain, in one way and like I said, we, we all talk about 07, we all talk about Boise State and all those stories. We're kind of legislating those stories away, but we're creating excitement in another way too, I guess.
- [15:51]
C
I know we've gotten this question before from some of our listeners, but with that gap, you know, increasing between the power four and the group of five and who knows what the next round is going to look like? But assuming they still get a team in, do you think they'll. What's the deepest run you think they could get? I think they could win a game. They could win multiple games. Could they get to the Final Four? Like, what do you see? How big is that gap?
- [16:15]
A
Yeah, I mean, if, like, obviously Boise was kind of an interesting situation last year having the best or worst second best player in the country. And honestly there are a couple red zone miscues, like flip the red zone around in that, in that Penn State game or give them a home game instead, which was what I wanted all along. And you know, maybe that's a much closer game or it flips. So I think in general, you know, you're going to be looking at the G5 team in a 14 or 16 team playoff here in the future, playing a top team, obviously in the first round. Upsets can always happen. And I, you can always beat Notre Dame. So therefore a G5 team can always win that game one of these years. And because it's not like 1 versus 16 in the NCAA tournament, it's not one of the four best teams versus like the 238th best team in the country. So that can always happen. And I would, if you could beat the top team and you're playing like the eighth seed in the second round, you can win that game too. I, I would assume Final Fours, as far as you're ever going to see, it would take a lot of breaks and just the right kind of talent to get further than that. But I just, you know, that's. We're still, whoever, whoever makes it out of the G5 is still going to be like a top 30ish level team and those teams can beat top teams. So just. No, they can't Be four top teams probably, but they can beat one or two.
- [17:29]
B
I, I found something interesting in the returning production piece and that I obviously SP plus thinks the SEC will be back, you know, clearly on top as the best conference and it probably was top to bottom last year and I'm.
- [17:42]
A
And I'm bottom, especially the bottom is why it had the best average last year.
- [17:46]
B
Yeah, this is where I'm going.
- [17:47]
A
Yeah.
- [17:48]
B
Like, I mean, so in the piece you said, hey, the SEC only had one team outside the top 52. I think in the Big Ten had seven. Like I, I was thinking more like, hey, the SEC has so many quarterbacks I think have like real upside, whereas on the Big Ten probably a little bit less or maybe like a year away. Like Underwood might be really, really good, but is he going to be like, you know, amazing as a true freshman? You know, probably not. Like sayings, you know, first time starter type thing at Ohio State, Dante. The same thing at Oregon. I mean if these quarterbacks here for the SEC and if the bottom of the Big Ten doesn't improve, this could be like a real clear pulling away.
- [18:26]
A
Yeah, yeah, I think this was, I mean you never want to overreact to one year, but I think what we saw last year is, is approximately what we'll usually see from the Big Ten and sec. SEC will have better depth and the Big Ten will probably have the better top four on average or something to that effect. Yeah, I mean I would assume that one of these young quarterbacks clicks at a very, very, very high level, but you don't know which one for sure. And it probably won't be all of them. And so it'll be a situation where do I have, so I have Big Ten teams ranked 1, 3, 6, 13 and then like 21, 25, 26 and 30s and 40s and whatnot. So definitely a similar story. Michigan is, is obviously the biggest mystery to me. Just because they proved by the end of the year they don't need a great quarterback to, to beat good teams and they probably won't have a great quarterback this year, but just a higher floor at that position would have made a massive difference for them. And I think they're, if, if Underwood or whoever at least provides a better floor, then they're going to be a really solid team and then it just depends on again, so much of this comes down to close games and everything. Illinois is going to really struggle. They're probably going to be better than they were last year, but they're going to struggle to match last year's record because they won so many weird close games, couple overtime games, that stupid Rutgers ending that I loved, that's really hard to replicate. So they're going to struggle, but it's but Iowa might make a run because they lost all their close games last year. So we'll see. But we know who the top three teams are going to be, most likely four, I guess.
- [19:57]
B
All right, let's go ahead and hit a break here. And after the break, we're going to talk about some teams that SP plus loves and get Bill's thoughts on, like how comfortable he is with some of the love being shown to these teams.
- [20:06]
A
As a scientist, I can tell you that Sundays are only 24 hours long, but with NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get every game, every Sunday all in one place. That's upwards of 30 hours of NFL in one day. How can there be 30 hours in 24 hours, you ask? I have a theory, Magic New users get NFL Sunday Ticket for rate payments of $34.50 per month. Sign up at NFLSundayTicket.com local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday Ticket for out of market games excludes digital only games and commercial use terms and embargoes apply. Availability varies. Gatorade is the number one proven electrolyte blend designed to hydrate better than water.
- [20:43]
B
So you can lose more more sweat and raise your game.
- [20:49]
A
Gatorade, is it in you Am I.
- [20:53]
B
Reading the CBS Sports bracket app Debo or is that like like or is that closed now? Like? I think we still have some time to get the brackets in right.
- [21:00]
A
If you're watching live, we got about 40 minutes.
- [21:03]
B
All right, so it's bracket time. So get yours in now. Like right now on the CBS Sports app. Enter the bracket challenge for the chance to win a new Nissan Armada and truck trips to the 2026 final four. You can also play in men's and women's pools with friends and join our pool. Get the CBS Sports app or visit CBSSports.com/3 to start filling out your brackets and probably finish too, given that, you know, it's about time. No purchase necessary. See Terms and Rules for details. All right, so Bill, I I have some teams here that SP plus is very high on and some teams that maybe it's, you know, not quite as high on in the Bye bye bye. So a lot of love being shown to Alabama to start after kind of a shaky at times first year for Kaylin DeBoer. They come in at number two, but obviously the gap between two and like 10 in SP plus. This year is tight, so I don't know how much we should read into them being two. But does this say more about the confidence in Alabama or in just the compression of the market, maybe the lack of, you know, certainty about some of these other schools?
- [22:10]
A
Yeah, anytime I kind of, you know, press that button and I see what the final list is going to be. I don't, you know, it's usually fun to be surprised and this year the, my biggest surprise was. Oh, it's, it's them again. I mean, if nothing else. Yeah, number one. It's really kind of two through five or six are especially close and they just happen to be a decimal point ahead, so we shouldn't read too much into that. But also there's still one of the two or three most talented rosters in the country. They still have, you know, a quarter a head coach who everybody listed as one of like the two best in college football a year ago. It wouldn't as, as, you know, if you watch the team at the end of last year, then you kind of know like they, they were out of sorts for sure, especially on offense. But nobody's going to be surprised if they rip off in an 111 season. Nobody's going to even pretend tend to be surprised by that. I think it all, you know, last year, whether it was having a younger coordinator, you know, you get Ryan Grubb back, that probably helps a little bit. But also it was just that it really seemed like a bunch of good defenses down the stretch figured out exactly what Alabama really didn't want to do and they were able to make Alabama do it a little bit more and it didn't work very well. So offense fell apart. Now you're gonna have a new quarterback that doesn't, new quarterback doesn't mean it's gonna automatically be awesome, but it could be there. You know, it's going to be one of three blue chippers and he's going to have a really experienced receiving core, very, very good offensive line and a defense that was good last year and is, is experienced this year. So I, I, it's not going to surprise me. I wouldn't have voted them number two, but I would absolutely, you know, it's, it's been kind of, I've seen some of the way too early has dropped them into like the, the, the low or high double digits. I would have them in single digits for sure. And, and it's not going to surprise anybody if they're really good.
- [23:57]
C
The other team that you're Pretty high on in here on the rankings is Penn State. Now I'm sure that's music to the ears of our producer today. Debo big Penn State guy. It's probably, it shouldn't be surprising though losing Abdul Carter is big but they're. They made this big push to bring back the backs. They made the move to get Tom Allen or not Tom Allen to bring in Knowles from Ohio State to run the defense is this and but they are higher than Michigan, Oregon, other teams that you know have performed better historically, especially against the power players in the Big Ten. Is this the year that you think Penn State could make that push, especially with all the question marks around everybody else?
- [24:35]
A
I mean they certainly think so. They've certainly spit big as if they know this is their their shot. I mean I, you know, losing Abdul Carter hurts. The next time they don't have a good pass rusher will be the first time in like 10 years. Obviously bringing denied Dennis Sutton back is a big thing and they've got plenty of other guys. So I can't even pretend to be worried about the defense. The only even slight hitch I would have with the defense is usually Jim Knowles isn't amazing in his first year in a new job, but he also hasn't ever experienced or inherited a defense that ranked as highly in his in his first year on the job either. So you know, at Duke it took him a little while. Well, of course it did. Oklahoma State took him a year at Ohio State, but they were coming off a different, a disappointing performance performance too. So they've got what he needs. They've got, they've got good safety play, they've got good pass rushers still, I think, you know, corner secondary, you know, a couple new stars have to emerge, but they got lots of candidates for that. So I can't even pretend to think this is anything but a top another top five defense for Penn State. So then it just becomes like how much do you believe in the offense? Offense improved a ton last year with Cottle. Nicki. I love Caudle Nicky. He gets, you know, there are times when you could probably lean on your strengths a little bit more. He seems to, he has a lot of fun drawing stuff up and, and wants to kind of show that off sometimes, but it usually works. And they were ninth in offensive SP plus last year without a receiver. So if we think that the receiving core is going to improve the actual wide receiving core, obviously they're going to get a little worse at tight end. If, if we think the wide receivers have anything more to offer this year. They're going to have the running backs, and I think. I think the offensive line. And Aller is going to be more experienced for all of his glitches and for how tough it was to watch the end of that semifinal game against Notre Dame where he went out there and said, I'm gonna go win this game. And immediately through the. The game losing pick, he still improved a ton last year over the year before. And if he improves a little bit more and the receivers improve a little bit more, what's not to like? They were a semifinal team that was one play away from the title game last year. So I think they're absolutely. What did I have them third? Yeah, I knew they'd be in the top five and. And they should be.
- [26:44]
B
One of the things that I find really interesting here, Bill, is the. The Big 12. So seven of the teams ranked 26 to 36 are Big 12 teams, and Kansas State is the highest at. At 19. Really? I. I find this league, like, incredibly entertaining. And then Big 12 fans get mad at us and we're like, there's no real, like, serious Natty contender. But you can still appreciate the, like, the quality of playing, the closeness of the games and the drama and the, you know, the different styles they play within this league without thinking it's like, you know, a serious threat to win a Natty. That is crazy, though, to have seven of the 26 to 36 be from one conference.
- [27:21]
A
Yeah, it was. I mean, this is kind of basically how it was last year, too. I mean, generally speaking, I'm very concerned about the whole separation halves haves, not. Have nots, all that stuff for, like. That's one of my. The biggest things I end up talking about a lot. But there's no question that last year's moves as we saw them, you know, it gave. You know, if we had the conferences from that we had in 23 last year, Texas would have run away with the Big 12, Oregon would have run away with the Pac 12, and instead we ended up with a more competitive Big Ten, a more competitive SEC and a more competitive Big 12. I don't think, you know, sacrificing the Pac 12 altogether was worth it just because of that. But there's no question we had really competitive races, and Big 12 now doesn't have a dominant brand every single year. Whoever wins number one is going to be the team that went like 5 and 1 and 1 score games like Arizona State did or something very close to that. And that's going to produce a team that if they can keep it close in the playoff, you know, if it's close in the fourth quarter, as we kind of saw with Arizona State against Texas, like, they can make the plays to either win or you come achingly close to winning against a really good team. So I think whoever this conference produces is going to be a very, very seasoned and confident team. We just never. We're never going to know who that's going to be ahead of time. It's going to be any number of Kansas State, tcu, byu, Iowa State, Arizona State, Utah, maybe Tech, maybe even like a Baylor, maybe Kansas. Like, it's going to be one of those teams, but good luck figuring out which one.
- [28:51]
C
How do you Compare the ACC versus the Big 12?
- [28:55]
A
Kind of like the. The SEC and Big 10 in that Big 12 has the depth, but the ACC probably has the better team, the better top team. That's probably the best way to put it. Like, we can confidently say that, you know, if Kansas is. Or Kansas State's 19th, we can confidently say Clemson's higher than that, Miami might be higher than that. Smu, Louisville. I can't. I guess that's probably it in terms of potential top 15 teams, but, you know, we know that there's a little bit more of a proven entity there. We also know that Stanford stinks and Wake Forest is probably going to take a little while and Virginia is probably not going to be very good. Boston College, you know, they're. They're just. There's a lot more. I hate. You know, dead weight is meaner than I really want it to sound, but there's just going to be. The worst teams are going to be worse in the acc and the better teams are probably going to be better.
- [29:47]
B
I think that makes sense. Yeah. Which if you're Jim Phillips, it's like, why are you agreeing to get the same number of automatic playoff bids as the Big 12?
- [29:55]
A
Right. Like, even. Even if the Big 12 is a better conference, on average, you're probably gonna. In an average year, you're gonna probably get more playoff spots. You're right.
- [30:03]
B
Yeah. It's. I'm like, guys, if it's the playoff, like, it's about the top teams. It's not about the depth.
- [30:08]
A
Yeah. They almost got three last year and that was a. That conference wasn't very good.
- [30:12]
B
Yeah. Like, right. Yeah. I, I think the Big 12 is like a great regular season league, but one team that actually did win the Big 12 last year, it seems like SP plus is still fairly high on them this Year like was there Arizona State. I don't say lucky and then might be good this year because they were certainly good last year. But like were they fortunate and, and good and this year they might just be like good regardless of luck.
- [30:33]
A
Well, Arizona State fans certainly don't think the SB plus likes Arizona State very much. I've, I've heard that a couple of times over the last few months. I, you know, they finished in like what, the 30s, I think last season in SB plus because they were in the 50s at the start of November, you know, they barely beat Texas State. They barely, they were scraping by and then after, you know they have, they lose to Cincinnati with the quarterback out and all that stuff and then they just slowly became an awesome playoff level team. So they all ended up in the 30s, but they return a ton outside of scatter boo. And you know, they're what, 29th right there in the middle of, of like the seven teams that are co leaders. And it'll just come down to whether they have that close game recipe. I know you and I have talked a ton about, like, is there a recipe of you know, proper game management and quarterback play and special teams and all those things? If Arizona State has that again, they could absolutely do it. I watched my Missouri team win all their close games one year and then almost went on all of them the next. So if you've got the quarterback play and the, and the proper coaching, you can do it, but it's still pretty hard. And you know, they, they got some breaks last year that they, they might not get this time around.
- [31:44]
B
We, we just got done with our hot seat episodes and basically like, like the way we do it is we couch if Vegas is right. Is this guy in trouble you this year is it? Basically it, it takes the pressure off us of saying like, hey, they're gonna go six and six. That's not really the point of the exercise. It's like if these Vegas expectations are right. But I'm curious if you're an athletic director in a school one of these like major like the two really bloated leagues now at that top, how much are you trying to focus on quality of play metrics as opposed to just record? And record certainly matters because you got to sell tickets and like record is going to impact your booster spend and whatnot. But I'm, I'm, I'm curious. Like, and specifically here with Oklahoma, like SP+ likes Oklahoma a lot and yet it projects it to win 6.2 games, which you know that that's making a Bowl, but not by much.
- [32:34]
A
Yeah.
- [32:34]
B
How much are you trying to factor in like advanced analytics and quality of play? Because it might have more signal than just a win loss record. Especially some of these bloated leaks.
- [32:42]
A
Right. That. The last part is key. Like the, the, the quality of play is in your control. The schedule, especially in these conferences, especially if the SEC is going to keep playing eight games. The, the, the array of potential schedule strengths in a given year is so huge that. I mean, yeah, you can. If you tell ou Wright fans right now you're going to go 6 and 6 next year, they're probably going to be ready to get rid of Venables. But also they could be a top 20 level team and go 6 and 6. Their schedule is absurd. And then, you know, a couple years from now, their schedule will probably be much easier and they could actually, you know, do things if they think that, that the quality is what matters and that they're still on track. I mean, yeah, record matters for ticket sales. And you know, if you, even if you're the best 5 and 7 team in the world, you're probably gonna have a lot of guys ready to transfer at the end of the year if you disappoint, disappointed and went 5 and 7. So it's hard to keep everything on the right track if, if the wins don't come. But also. Yeah, I mean. Oh, you. I, I have in the next projections update for May, I think I figured out finally how a decent way of how to, you know, capture coaching and coordinator changes in a way that actually, you know, makes the, makes it more predictive. I've never, never managed to figure that out, but I think I have. That's only going to make OU better because this, it's basically going to look at like, how did you perform versus like a huge like 20 year average. I know you had just had their worst offense in 25 years. So they just hired a new offensive coordinator, brought in a new quarterback. That probably means their offense is going to improve and they're probably going to go up in the projections and still be projected to go like 7 and 5. So like, I absolutely think that should matter because if you want to make a smart, informed decision, how good you were matters more than what your record was.
- [34:31]
C
All right, it is 11:35. We've been on the show for 35 minutes. Hopefully Florida State fans have already left the chat because you have met 51st. That is behind Duke, Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, UNC, Georgia Tech, but it is two spots ahead of Pitt. The Pitt Panthers. How much of that is about the two win season last year, which I think Florida State fans, myself included are hoping that was an anomaly versus all right, the roster has some serious issues.
- [35:03]
A
Well, Florida State's unprojectable. You're not supposed to be capable of going of ranking 9th and SP plus one year and 83rd the next, you know, top 25 offense and then 114th the next. Like that's not supposed to happen. And so you're, you know, from a projection standpoint it's completely just throwing a dart here and you know. Well, it's splitting the difference basically is what it's doing. So that's. I, I would assume that Florida State's upside is obviously far higher than around top 50. But you know, it was probably higher than 83rd last year and we didn't even see a glimpse of it. So it's kind of burden of proof on them. Of course SB plus is going to project them in a pretty iffy manner. It's up to them to, to, to. To prove that, you know, that last year was a giant, the greatest anomaly of all time. I'd sure like better quarterbacks to choose from this season to expect some massive improvement. I don't really see what I need to see there but I would assume like if I was betting I would say they're gonna one of their projected 6 and 6.2 wins. I, I would still assume they get to like 7 and 5 or 8 and 4. I don't know why you would possibly think higher than that though. They got to prove that I think.
- [36:12]
B
You nailed it with the quarterback thing. Like. Yeah, in some ways like what they did coach like coordinator wise and portal wise I think potentially makes them more projectable because it, I just don't think you can be a sane person and projected a decent to good passing game.
- [36:29]
A
Right.
- [36:29]
B
With what they brought in. Which really limits the ceiling. But also if Castellano stays healthy the run game should be a good bit better. Which I think it's high floor, very low ceiling approach probably by design because you got to save your job, you know.
- [36:45]
A
Yeah. And I like Squirrel. I thought Squirrel White was going to be incredible at Tennessee because Hypo's always had like a slot receiver who averages 25 yards per catch and he just, they just suddenly stopped making big plays these last two years. Maybe that wasn't all on him. Maybe he's got a lot more upside than he showed the last couple seasons. So big plays there. But I mean yeah like completely new offensive line quarterback who you're right. When he's healthy, like early last season, he was super scary and super annoying to just try to like corral and everything. But he's also 510-195-and he's probably gonna get hurt again. So, you know, it is hard to project massive success. Their defense, obviously I would expect to overachieve against projections, but offense, I'm not as confident in.
- [37:30]
B
Yeah, that. That makes two of us. All right, let's hit a break here and then we come back. I want to ask Bill, who is the lowest rated team by SP plus that you could actually see making a Cinderella run to the Nettie. So this episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [38:10]
A
Labor Day savings are happening right now at the Home Depot. So what are you working on? Prep for fall with our wide selection.
- [38:17]
C
Of cordless power tools that make it easy to clear your lawn starting at $79.
- [38:24]
A
And once the leaves are clear, keep.
- [38:26]
C
Your yard looking fresh with with colorful.
- [38:28]
A
Moms that bloom all season long. Shop Labor Day Savings now through September.
- [38:34]
C
3Rd only at the Home Depot.
- [38:36]
A
See select stores for details.
- [38:40]
B
We are back here on the COVID 3 podcast. Fortunate to have Bill Connolly of ESPN, godfather of SP plus and a bunch of other awesome stuff. All right, Bill. This sport has a ton of compression in it right now. It feels like, and when we talked earlier, like, okay, probably not a G5 team coming up and winning the Natty, but there are so many teams that could. Let's, let's do a fun one here. Who is the lowest rated team by SP plus that you could see? Like, if everything clicks, they have like actual Natty potential.
- [39:09]
A
I'd love to make a Louisville case at 22, but I don't think I can. I think they, they, they might have a title level offense but, but, but not enough. I mean if you're really stretching the bounds of believability, I think, you know, ou being at 20, you know, if they have another top 15 offense or top 15 defense and sudden spectacular with new coordinator and new quarterback, you could, I mean obviously the schedule is going to hurt, but with that schedule, if they can get to nine and three, they're probably in the Playoff or very close to it. So, you know, that's not out of the realm of possibility, but it's hard to, hard to sign up for that one. If it's not Florida. Florida obviously has the same schedule issues that ou, but if DJ Lagway is suddenly the best quarterback in the country, then, you know, maybe they can ride that. If it's not Florida, then I think you got to go to LSU at 10. Like that's. Yeah, obviously they're super fascinating for what they're trying to do defensively, but I, I would struggle with anybody below that. Clemson, A M, Michigan, you know, if they have another great defense and Underwood's spectacular out of the gate. But I, I would say top 10 or number 10, I should say SEC.
- [40:30]
C
What's the lowest that's actually won it?
- [40:33]
A
In terms of projections, I can't think of when a low projected team like LSU was probably still like fifth or sixth in projections at worst in 2019. So I think it liked Florida State way back in 2013, at least like top 10ish. So yeah, it, that's about it though.
- [41:01]
C
It's very, it doesn't come past 10.
- [41:03]
A
Right. And, and having a tournament, an actual tournament at the end of the season where you have to beat four top 15ish teams probably to win, that does kind of limit. We're going to have bracket chaos and Cinderella runs. But in terms of winning four games, it's not going to be any easier to win it now than it was in the four team or the BCS.
- [41:20]
B
Or anything else that makes a lot of sense. So some skepticism expressed there on Clemson. I, I'm assuming that's because they did lose like four ACC games last year.
- [41:32]
A
Right? They were four regular season games. Yeah. I mean they were 22nd in SP plus. They've been the last four seasons. They've averaged a ranking of 18.5 in SP plus and I think that's pretty justifiable. So they're clearly good. They're, they're, they're number one in returning production. I think this is a really fun season just in terms of. We're gonna find out what their ceiling is at this stage because this is probably going to be the best Clemson team since that run of contenders. I just can't. The defense was 29th last year. It'll, it'll be better. But top 10? I, I can't guarantee that. The, the defensive front's obviously got loads of potential, but it had loads of potential last year when it was 29th. The offense leaped all the way to 16th last year. 16th is very good but it's. You gotta you know I think what we saw from the offense against Texas last year where suddenly they're throwing the ball downfield and making huge plays. You sophomore receivers Williams is reliable like that all seems awesome but all of that coming together and them being Suddenly like a top 3ish team, I just can't quite. That's a hell of a leap and I can't quite get there.
- [42:40]
C
What about other teams in the top 15 that their numbers like that you're.
- [42:44]
A
Not so sure on plenty anybody in that kind of that 10 to 15 range could easily be like 30th and it wouldn't surprise me all that much much but you know I think basically, you know obviously it likes the SEC as a whole and it's got what 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 like eight teams between 7th and 17th or 18th. I mean half of those teams are going to go like 7 and 5 and and you know while schedule strength is going to be part of that they're also, it's not easy like Missouri's 15th, you know that's very reliant on Bo Peola being a quarterback capable of leading a top 15 team. Defense should be good but there's a lot of new pieces on offense that could click but aren't guaranteed to South Carolina, I loved their defense last year and Dylan Stewart's awesome but he's the only one back pretty much of all the guys I thought were awesome he's. He's the one and so they're, they've got a lot of questions to answer and Sellers has to be way more consistent and that's not guaranteed to happen. Plus Beamer teams always seem to peak late in the season after being extremely mediocre halfway through the season and, and that's not going to fly if we're talking about a top 15 campaign. Miami obviously has a load of questions to answer on defense and you know they're. While their quarterback is experience it's probably a downgrade from what Cam Ward did last year. So that's, I'm skeptical of all of those teams in that neighborhood. Half of them are going to underachieve and that's just kind of how this works I guess.
- [44:11]
B
Am I crazy to think that Auburn, if Arnold plays like to his potential that maybe he showed in high school could do it? Because I know they need a lot of improvement, a lot of areas but a lot of the improvement seems not crazy to project like Cam Coleman could become the like the second Best receiver in the country in short order. And like I think the O lines like way improved and I don't know like, I mean it's very, it feels like it's very quarterback dependent as far as needing the big jump in play positionally. Everything else was kind of okay. Ish.
- [44:42]
A
Yeah, they, they were more efficient than their opponents last year. Like their success rate was 46 and their opponents were 37. That's, that's like, that's tremendous for, for an SEC team. They're, they had, let's see 8.9 of their plays gained at least 20 yards and to 5.7% for the, you know, on defense. So they were much more efficient than their opponents. They were much more explosive than their opponents and the reason they were so mediocre last year is that they teams aren't usually that reliable in terms of always self destructing in the red zone and always committing a turnover at the worst possible time while never committed, while never forcing turnovers. Like those are what we tend to call the like the little things and they blew up Auburn season completely. And so like is that was that extreme randomness like trying to identify why they were that consistently bad in terms of red zone and turnovers. Like I, if you want to just say like the big things are all that matter and now they're probably going to be better at quarterback even if they're not great and they're going to have an awesome receiving core. Like that kind of sounds like a top 10 potential kind of team. I just, I've never seen a team that reliably self destruct like that and I, I can't quite tell what that means from year to year.
- [46:00]
C
Where do you. So I was a little bit surprised. Like if you would have had Bama and Texas flip flopped with the recent history and the rosters with Arch Manning coming in, I wouldn't have been surprised. Did you think you were like when that number came out and Texas was at 7 which is still really high, the odds makers have them second, you know, favorite to win at all. Were you surprised they were a little bit lower?
- [46:20]
A
I was. I mean once I thought about it it was, it started to make more sense. But right out, just in terms of eyeballs, you're right. If I just flip those two teams and everything else looks extremely normal. But Basically, I mean SP plus the last three years ranked ranked Texas 7, 6 and 7. So protecting them 7 seems about right in that regard. They were you know, seventh when they lost a bunch of close games and went 8 and 5 and 22. And then they were seventh last year because they won some close games and their offense wasn't quite as reliable. But it really just does. I mean, I think they're absolutely getting, in terms of pole bumps or whatever, they're obviously getting kind of an arch effect kind of thing. And I can't say anybody's wrong for doing that. We don't, we don't know that Arch Manning can read a defense yet. We assume, and it's a very fair assumption that, you know, another off season with Stark and all this stuff, like, it's very fair to assume he's going to take a huge leap, but we haven't seen it. He obviously he had to sub in against UTSA. He had like the best 20 snaps a quarterback has ever had in the history of college football, like throwing for a 60 yard touchdown, running for a 60 yard touchdown, all that. But the more he was in the game, the more defense has kind of figured out what he wasn't as what as confident at. And they were able to adjust. So, yeah, I mean, SP plus doesn't give an arch effect kind of bump. So therefore it sees them as basically the same team they were the last few years. Which, I mean, again, I, I understand if we want to, if we want to assume March is amazing, I kind of get it. But SP plus isn't going to see that necessarily.
- [47:52]
B
All right. Like kind of sweet and sour here, which was the rating that came out. You're like, yes, I love picking up on this because it matches my biases. And then which one was like your double check or triple check teams? Like, really, we're gonna hit publish on this?
- [48:06]
A
Well, the double check was, you know, obviously, you know, Ole Miss being second last year threw a bunch of people for a loop. I kind of loved that they were there because it really did. It kind of defined the purpose of SP plus. They showed more upside in their wins than virtually any team in the country outside of Ohio State. And therefore they were second behind only Ohio State. And they looked, I mean, they crushed Georgia, they crushed the teams they beat. And in terms of the way they lost two of their three losses, they were very statistically unlikely losses. Just in terms of all the things it took for them to lose that game. They were tremendous team. If they'd sneaked into the playoff, they absolutely could have done massive damage. So I was extremely confident in Ole Miss and I like that they were number two. I could explain it. I was hoping they would fall further than ninth this year because I don't like this transfer class as much, and they just lost so many of the key pieces that made them so good last year. Whether we're talking about Dart, whether we're talking about, you know, Trey Harris, obviously he was. He wasn't there the entire season, but he was dynamite. Offensive line getting completely rebuilt, and I don't necessarily love what he brought in to rebuild it. I. I don't see this as a top 10 team. So that one was. I was kind of hoping they would slip a little further than ninth, even though, you know, if you're second, you're only gonna slip so far the next year. In terms of what I liked, I thought Penn State being top three was justifiable. I thought Notre Dame, I mean, honestly, the way their depth was tested last year and the way it passed every single test it got, I think that says massive things about what they could be capable of. Didn't love the decoordinator higher, if I'm being honest. But, you know, until they. The next bad defense they have will be their first in a long time, so they're probably going to be good there. And I thought they were. They earned top five. Oregon fallen once I. In my head, Oregon returned a ton and. And was going to be top three capable again. But then when I actually, actually updated their roster, they lost way more than I really had comprehended. And I was glad that they fell out of the top five. I thought that was six is probably about right for them, obviously. I mean, they're going to be good, but it's gonna be hard to go 120 again. Clemson being 11th. I. I was curious how far they would rise. I would. I probably liked him being more like ninth or something, but that was about right, I think. I. I really, honestly, like, Alabama was the one that made me roll my eyes, even though I can justify it. And. And I did kind of hope Ole Miss slipped a little bit. And I mean, honestly, like, I'm not saying this says to prove my bona fides, But Missouri being 15th threw me a little too. I assumed they'd be more like 25th, so, you know, we'll see about that.
- [50:43]
C
Too random one that's kind of in the middle of pack. I'm not sure if it's taking your attention, but the hire of a head coach with six super bowl rings has North Carolina. They're right there in the 40s. What do you put in for a secret weapon of a girlfriend who's secretly running the entire college football program there at North Carolina?
- [51:01]
A
Yeah. Speaking of unprojectable, minus. Yeah. Speaking of unprojectable, this is just an amazing thought experiment that I don't. I'm not going to really bring anything to the table here. I, you know, I. After the season ended, I had this, this piece go up about like, before I had the numbers in front of me. I just wanted to, like, create rules for. Here's how we're going to fill out the playoff. Like, the SEC champion has to either be Kirby Smart or somebody who has beaten Kirby Smart previously. And the ACC champ is either Clemson or a team that beats Clemson in the regular season. Just created little rules like that. But for. I got down to the Indiana Memorial at large bid out out of nowhere at large bid, and I had like, there weren't many good candidates for that this year. So I was like, screw it, I'm picking North Carolina. I'm pairing them against Texas. It's going to be great. Manning versus Belichick. Here we go. That was a facetious exercise to a certain degree. I'm not going to pretend that they have anything close to like, Max Johnson could still be solid, but like, I don't know, like, Ryan Brown from Purdue doesn't blow me away. So I don't know that they're gonna have anything at quarterback. Obviously, the skill core is getting completely rebuilt. The offensive line wasn't great. The defense hasn't been great in forever. So, yeah, I would just throw top 50 up there and, and just wait to see what happens because I have absolutely no sort of preconceived notions here.
- [52:23]
B
Yeah, I think this is. It's a fascinating one because I think word from some of the guys who coach for Mac is like, practices not unserious, but maybe not super efficient. Right. And Belichick is not really known for wasting time.
- [52:39]
A
Yeah.
- [52:39]
B
Not that many are, but I, I would struggle to think of like, a more drastic turn in terms of, like, how we're going to use our practice time.
- [52:46]
A
Yeah.
- [52:47]
B
Going from late, late career Mac Brown to, well, I guess late, late career Bill Belichick, we have to assume maybe that's something that he still does pretty well. So I have no idea how you actually project that.
- [52:59]
A
No. And that's kind of the fun part too is, you know, if it turns out that he's just an amazing teacher and developer, that's awesome. Like, that's gonna be really fun to follow. But you just look at the talent that we know they have and they don't have just a ton here. I was actually surprised. I figured the, the, the glorious late career Bill Belichick Move would have been going to D3, like go back to his home conference and just coach, like just teach. Just be a teacher and teach these kids and, and try to go 8 and 2 in the NESCAC or whatever, one of those D3 conferences. I guess maybe he still could, but he's going to try this first.
- [53:34]
B
You would have a lot of short.
- [53:36]
C
10 million bucks will make you come back too, to give it a little run in North Carolina as well.
- [53:41]
A
Yeah, that might be a little convincing. I doubt anybody in the nescap can, can match that. Right.
- [53:46]
B
Bill, are you, you have any, any college basketball thoughts for us here as the tournament starts?
- [53:50]
A
More than normal. Because I ended up doing the game day pod last week and, and you know, hopping through all of that. But you know, it does feel like the boring thing where the four, the, the number ones are a little better than normal. This year is probably the best. The feel that, that feels real and, and the number one certainly look good. I am very curious about the SEC as a whole. Just 14 teams. I thought they should have gotten 13. I was at least a little justified with Texas losing yesterday. But, you know, typically, Ken Pomeroy had an interesting thing a couple weeks ago about how typically the big overachieving best conferences of all time kind of run out of gas by March and don't really live up to getting all the bids that they got. So I'm, I'm curious a lot. You know, Auburn lost what, three out of four? Lots of teams weren't necessarily at their absolute best at the end of the season. I'm curious what that means.
- [54:41]
C
Oh, I, I love that article. I posted it and Greg Sankey retweeted it and like shot it down with all these stats of how dominant they were in the regular season. I'm like, I get it, but that doesn't translate in the postseason. That was the point of the article.
- [54:55]
A
Right? And it could translate, but the whole point of like, whoever the best conference is for the season as a whole, it means like, how good was your conference in November and December? Right? Because that's when all the non conference stuff happened. They could still have the best teams overall, but it's just not guaranteed because a lot can change over three months. So just. Yeah, I'm really, really curious. They, they earned their top seeds especially. But you know, like I said, they might, some might run out of gas here. Big Ten had that problem a couple years ago, so who knows?
- [55:23]
B
I mean, Danny getting Sanki to, you know, react to him over a basketball opinion With Master Class.
- [55:34]
C
We all can't wait to see the SEC play in this tournament. We got a lot of drafts in the folder.
- [55:39]
A
All right. And. And again, they might live up to all of it. I just. It's not a guarantee. We'll see.
- [55:44]
B
Bill, tell us. Tell us where I'll find your work and what you got coming up next.
- [55:49]
A
Well, I'm going on vacation next week, so there's that. You won't see anything from me for a little while. Actually, no, we're. We. We timed. Every year I update my top quarterbacks of the 2000s list. We're timing that for while I'm gone next week, which I, which I love. So, you know, go yell. Go yell at my, you know, the social media that I'm not on next week. But. So yeah, we got that social media. Obviously we're in a weird spot, but I'm still ESPN_Bill C. On Twitter and then ESPN Bill C. Without the underscore on Blue sky if you're over there. So still post semi periodically at least, even if not as much. Just there are links to my work in both places.
- [56:26]
B
I'm. Wait a second. Given the year of quarterbacks we just had, how much updating was really done to this?
- [56:34]
A
Yeah, I don't want to spoil everything, but I was actually surprised. Like once I actually laid out the career stats, we ended up. I. Every year I end up expanding the list because I add new guys but I don't want to take any away. So then I throw a couple old names on there and get up to. So we're up to 90 this year. Top 90 quarterbacks of the 2000s and ended up with five from this, you know, this class, so to speak. No top 25s, I don't think. Or no, actually like no top 20s. But you know, most of those guys are in like the 70s and 80s. But they made the list. You know, there is. There's that at least. And, and you know, Cam Ward, it didn't really hit me. You know, if you add in his FCS production, he ended up like almost as many yards as Dylan Gabriel. It over 18,000 over his career, which was just. I hadn't comprehended that I'd like that guy for a long time and I hadn't thought about how many yards he.
- [57:25]
B
Was throwing for a guy who had like 2100 combined rushing and passing yards in his best year in high school.
- [57:33]
A
Wild. I modern day success story, dude.
- [57:36]
B
Absolutely awesome, man. Well, I really enjoy this. We'll have to have you back on again soon.
- [57:41]
A
Absolutely. Take care of popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze. Talk about refreshing. You know what else is refreshing this summer? A brand new phone with Verizon. Yep. Get a new phone on any plan with Select Phone. Trade in in MyPlan and lock down a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan. This is a deal for everyone, whether you're a new or existing customer. Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals. 3 year price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate only. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.