Danny Cannell (3:18)

I like it.

Tom Fornelli (3:18)

Three calendar proposal. You think I can agree on something, Tom? No, I didn't think so.

Chip Patterson (3:24)

I will fight everything.

Danny Cannell (3:25)

Should we share like a, a calendar? Should we share it like you know, our family has a little Google calendar we share. We can't ever get on the same page that getting people to check it like, should we do that?

Tom Fornelli (3:34)

They'll have like the green and the orange tabs of like I think the first round of the playoffs right here. You've got it right there and then we can share it. We'll, we'll try to, we can get that all loaded into the system up on, on the mothership CBS Sports Network. But one of the reasons for that is the news item that is coming out of the American Football Coaches association because they have offered as the conversation is ongoing about playoff expansion and in terms of starting the season earlier, they have offered a four point proposal which honestly I appreciate from a couple college football coaches. This is straight out of like a, you know, an elp, like an econ, legal and politics class. Right. I have a four point plan, very political from the coaches right here. The four point plan for the future of the college football includes eliminating conference championship games, reducing scheduled bye weeks from two to one, preserving a dedicated window for the Army Navy game while allowing flexibility for other games to be played on that day and then reducing the number of days between contests to no fewer than six. Which I assume is had we had that happen.

Chip Patterson (4:50)

I don't know. I, I, there's probably been a case here or there where like some team plays on, we say short rest, but

Tom Fornelli (4:57)

a five day turnaround. Yeah, seems like that would have been something that we would have been alerted to. An extra piece of this is that the AFCA recommends that the season be completed by the second Monday in January, which to my mind was a little bit more of our traditional four team model type end date. Like a January 8th, the January 9th. Those are a lot of those date lines. Tom, what'd you make of some of the proposals from the coaches?

Chip Patterson (5:26)

There wasn't really anything in there that was outside of what you've heard kind of proposed by players. Plenty of people already. I will say for us working in this industry, I'm all aboard the. Getting it done by the second week of January. That would be absolutely fantastic, in my opinion. I will. I. I saw one tweet. It was funny because there are eight coaches on the. The board of directors of the AFCA who all approved of the. Who are all, like, pushing for the 2014 playoff. And one of those coaches is mine, Brett Vilma. But I just. It was a very funny tweet. It's like, it's kind of strange how the AFCA wants to expand the playoff and between the eight coaches in charge of it, they've coached three playoff games.

Tom Fornelli (6:07)

We're just trying to get those things look fun. I'd like to go to New Orleans.

Chip Patterson (6:15)

It is like, clearly coaches are going to be in favor of an expanded playoff because a lot of them have playoff bonuses in their contracts. And it also, you know, it gives a little extra, like, accomplishment to the season where if you don't win your conference or you don't win an national title, you'd say, well, we did get to the playoffs and that's still something you like. You could celebrate and use to get a raise and an extension and all that kind of stuff. I. I'm good with most of the ideas. Like with the 2014 playoff, I know I was doing the bit where I was just going to become the biggest advocate for it, but I'm like, I'm at war with myself because there are parts of it where I see the benefit of. And then there's still that one part of me that just doesn't want it at all. So I don't know. The coaches are obviously in for it. The networks are in for it. The conferences are still. Commissioners are still kind of fighting over the format of it. But it just, it does feel like it is coming. And the fact that now the coaches are openly calling for it just kind of another, no, duh. It's gonna be.

Danny Cannell (7:18)

Are you guys. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be. I feel like I'm on Canal island as one of the only people that says, hey, this could be fun. Like everyone else is like, this is going to suck. And your boy Kevin Clark had me on one because he said the people that run college football don't like college football. I think they do. I think they're trying to think outside the box. I think they're clearly thinking out for their own self interest in a lot of places where how can they come up with more money so they can keep writing checks and keep getting the big paydays coming in and also for the survival, you know, of their athletic programs and their conferences. So I get that. But like the pushback, the negativity around it I do think is pretty surprising. Now, do I think we need to go to 12 straight to 24? No, I'd kind of like to see what 16 would look like first. Like, I think that would be a good experiment. If 16, you know, if it's feels diluted, which, you know what, or if it kills the regular season, which people are very worried about, then I would say, well, maybe we, maybe we can just stop here at 16. But I think 24 is kind of exciting. And I also think there's a packaging dilemma because if you packages 16 plus the play in like, and you called them playing games, which you would replace with the playing games would be on the conference championship weekend, I think that would sell a lot better. But they're stuck on the 24 number and it is shocking to the system. And we even had people in the chat, we're like, Ah, 24 team sucks. Like, that's very much the mindset. Do you think there's a chance that they're socializing this, that they are looking for the reaction and that they would listen to the reaction and say, okay, maybe let's not do 24 first, let's do 16. Or are they going to do whatever they want no matter what?

Chip Patterson (9:03)

I don't think they're going to listen because there are too many people interested in, in their own self interests of getting these spots. Like the conferences will have their different reasons for it, the Big 12, but you know, the Big 12 probably would support it because hey, yeah, we'll get more teams in instead of what we're getting in this 12 team format. I, I like, yeah, it they, they say they need it because they need the money. You could counter by saying, well, just do a better job of spending the money that you have instead of blowing it on all these coaching contracts and these buyouts. Maybe then you Wouldn't need so much money right now. You'd still have that 50 million. You're paying that coach to go away. So I, I, I see the arguments both ways. I, I agree. Like, the 2014 playoff, people are complaining about it now. People don't want it. And I think that won't change. But once it comes, I think fans will enjoy it. It's just, the question is, what does it do to the regular season? Does it hurt the ratings in the regular season? Does it make those games less impactful, less important to the fans? I don't know. Like, I, I, I've been arguing for years that the 12 team already does that. So for me, it's kind of like you've already let Pandora out of the box. So if you're going to start complaining about the sanctity of the regular season when they go to 20, 24, where the hell were you two years ago when we were telling you the same thing was going to happen? So, yeah, I, I don't know. It's, it's funny to me that so many fans, because, like, if you look at the support, like, if you'd have ran those same polls a few years ago, should they expand to 12? It had been like 80. Yes. Whereas now when they're running those polls, you get like 24. Teams are getting like 9% support from, like, the poll. It's like, what is the difference in the minds of the fans from 12 to 24 at this point? Like, what really drastically changes? It's, you get an 8 and 4 team instead of a 9 and 3. Do you really want to pretend that's big of a difference? I don't know.

Tom Fornelli (10:44)

It's the worst. Like, do, do the results justify the system? The Miami Hurricanes would never have made a 14 playoff and they made it to the national championship game. Does that say that the system works or does that say that things are cheapened? Right. Because there's an argument that college football, for the longest time, Danny, the college football that you played in, competing for national championships, you lived life on a razor's edge. And maybe you did get that one slip up, but damn, you better not get two. You know, like only.

Danny Cannell (11:18)

But I hate it. But as somebody who played in it, I would have loved an opportunity to play for a national championship. Like when we finished third and fourth, or whether it was sixth, seventh or eighth, or whether you're in the top 10, I would have loved the opportunity because I think in my mind we could have competed and beat anybody in the country. But I See, I don't think it, it definitely, it definitely stings. Losses hurt more. But I, maybe I'm, maybe I'm wrong, but I do think college football is different than the NFL. Like, I do think there are still a mindset that you want to win every game. And I still think there'll be a penalty to lose. And I mean, just go ask Ryan Day who won the national championship, and all his fans talked about was, man, would you rather beat Michigan or would you rather win a national title? Like, that loss still hurt now, it didn't eliminate them from the playoffs, but it still hurt. Like that regular season game still mattered to them, to them emotionally. Now, did it matter for the playoff and for the championship? No. So I don't. And like, even Tom, I'll ask you, like with the 12 team, you said you think it's changed the regular season. Like, when we're watching it, it doesn't feel different.

Chip Patterson (12:25)

No, but you're already seeing coaches like Sark and those guys who get, who miss out are saying, well, we're going to stop playing these big games because since he's only caring about win, loss, record, blah, blah, blah, whatever, you know, whatever excuse they want to make. So, like, if you go to 24, there's an argument to be made that you'll get better regular season games because the impact won't kill teams as a bit as much. But at the same time, if the impact of that game doesn't have like, real ramifications, then why is it a big game? You know, as far as like a fan, like, if you're just a casual, it's like, all right, because it's Texas,

Danny Cannell (13:04)

Ohio State, you know, because it's a big game.

Chip Patterson (13:07)

But I'm saying, like, yeah, those teams are going to draw every single time, no matter what the playoff format is. If Texas and Ohio State are playing a regular season game, it's going to do numbers because it's Texas and Ohio State. But if it's, you know, a smaller school, but they've got numbers next to their name, like it's, you know, I don't know. Duke is ranked in the top 10 playing NC State, who's number eight somehow just a crazy game. How well, like is that game going to do numbers because it has playoff implications? I don't know.

Tom Fornelli (13:37)

I, I think that the, I think the judging the health based on TV ratings is always a little tricky.

Chip Patterson (13:46)

Yeah, but that doesn't stop them from doing it right.

Danny Cannell (13:49)

But like, I try to protect against that. I don't want to use those because

Tom Fornelli (13:52)

you've, you've got gate. We've had so many games with top x teams, top 12 teams, top 15 teams that don't rate and then two unranked teams, but because of who they are, will get, will draw a bigger number and get a better TV slot. And when we time slot champs hang the banner.

Danny Cannell (14:12)

I mean there's Virginia. Last year was, I mean that was a Friday night game. Set the record ratings for a Friday night game ever. Yeah.

Tom Fornelli (14:21)

So it's, you know, I'm always a little bit pushing back on that. I do think that that conference expansion has created in the SEC, in the big 10 more games that seem like big games that are tough games. So that's what their argument would be is that. And now that the SEC is expanding its conference schedule is saying like, well, we have made life in our conference more difficult. So that having that old BCS rule of one loss that we would like to have a little bit of an exchange there. So I understand from, especially from the coaches side why they want to push for that.

Danny Cannell (15:00)

If anything, I don't think it'll dilute the regular season. I think it'll dilute, dilute the playoff. Because this past season we saw two complete duds in the playoff. Right. With the group of six, there are group of five teams that made it. You're going to get some duds in a 2014 playoff, most likely.

Chip Patterson (15:17)

Yeah.

Danny Cannell (15:18)

You know, so that's where I would say that could be diluted more so than the regular season.

Chip Patterson (15:24)

Yeah, that's. I kind of like your idea of the playing style where it would be like a 16 team playoff with like 12 teams that you know are in. And then there's the eight games for the last four or eight teams vying for the last four spots and four playoff games or whatever. I don't know what that number. I, I think that would be better because A, it gives you four evenly matched games in the first round which will do ratings and will draw people in and fans would be interested, even just casuals. Not it's even if their team's not in it. That suddenly becomes interesting because it's got a playoff and it just gives you something good before you get to those first round blowouts. Because there will be a lot of blowouts in the first round. Especially if you're playing those games on campus like the one verse 16s, the two verse 15s and all those, those games are gonna be like 20 to 30 point wins.

Danny Cannell (16:09)

Right.

Tom Fornelli (16:11)

What about the calendar portion of this? You Mentioned you like the second Monday in January. That I believe is echoed by, by both of us. What about the scheduled bye weeks? Is that just something that has to happen?

Danny Cannell (16:24)

So they said down from 2 to 1. I don't love that from a player health perspective.

Tom Fornelli (16:29)

I don't love that from a player health perspective too. But I wonder if that's what has to happen to make the calendar work. That someone sat down and said, all right, let's draw this out. Pick a random year, 2029. How are we going to be able to wrap this season by the second Monday in January? We're going to have a 2014 playoff. Step one, eliminate conference championship games. Then they might have said, oh crap, we still needed one extra week to be able to fit this all in. Would you trade one bye week for being able to wrap the season earlier?

Chip Patterson (17:01)

Yeah, me, it's not my body. I don't care. Let him die.

Tom Fornelli (17:04)

So here's the attitude of a university president. Yeah, it's like the people running college sports don't care about college sports because fundamentally the way that college sports is set up, its leaders are university presidents and conference commissioners who only answer to the university presidents. University presidents are trying to draw revenue and fundraising and money for their university so that then they can get a better university president job. It is all like negative, incentivized. Then the athletic directors who actually do seem to care a little bit more about student athlete and athlete well being, they are answering to their university president. So it's like university president pushes things through. Athletic directors have to figure out the logistics to make it happen. The whole system is set up with negative incentivization of being able to preserve the sport. I mean it's the.

Danny Cannell (17:55)

Yeah, call me crazy though. I, I am so not bothered at all if the season ends later like in January 20th.

Tom Fornelli (18:05)

You said that this year.

Danny Cannell (18:07)

I love having college football. Like as long as we can get it. Like I like, I like college basketball. And that's usually when I turn my attention to college basketball is after college football's done. But from our perspective, like talking about the sport having content, it doesn't bother me at all that we get a longer season and the 11 day layoff is tough.

Tom Fornelli (18:28)

Well, exactly.

Danny Cannell (18:28)

So that's why. Yeah, that's where like you're talking about that trade off. I would say give the, give the, give the players another bye week and who cares if it ends the 21st as opposed to the 14th like it's still off the academic calendar. It really doesn't help the portal that much like it's still off.

Tom Fornelli (18:44)

So.

Danny Cannell (18:44)

So what's the big deal?

Chip Patterson (18:46)

I. I think for. I think it's just. And this is just purely me, like, this isn't the sport, like just the way I. It's. It's burnout in that you've got the playoff going on, you've got all the hype about it and we've got all the talking about it and where there are fewer games. So it's like we're doing all our shows and we're focusing on the same games and it feels like we're just talking about the same thing over and over again for a while. Especially, like Chip said, when there's that 11 day layoff, it's like, what the hell are we going to do? But then you combine it with like the coaching carousel that's going on and like the transfer stuff, it's just so much. Whereas it's like, man, we can just get these games over with so we can get to the good stuff, you know, which is. I'm joking, by the way. But like, yeah, I'm just burned out by January. So the further it drags on, it's

Danny Cannell (19:28)

like, yeah, but if we had more playoff games, that would help, you know, if we were. If we had an expanded playoff. We were talking about that.

Chip Patterson (19:37)

As long as you're on 11 days between rounds.

Tom Fornelli (19:39)

All right, one last piece of this. Are y' all interested? Do you think we can put together a Cover 3 calendar proposal and, and pitch it on CBS Sports Network tomorrow at one o'? Clock?

Chip Patterson (19:49)

Yeah, I could. I could tell Chat GPT to do it. Yeah, I mean, we could. Claude.

Danny Cannell (19:57)

Now that Brian Kelly's on Claude, I might have to buy Claude 100 bucks a month so I can start. I wonder what questions he prompted.

Chip Patterson (20:05)

100 bucks a month?

Danny Cannell (20:07)

Yeah. I didn't realize it was that expensive. That's the upgraded one, I think, which I'm sure Brian Kelly can afford. It's not probably that buyout.

Chip Patterson (20:14)

LSU's paying for it.

Danny Cannell (20:15)

Yeah, Yeah, I did. I did talk to two coaches this week on the radio. We had Pat Narduzzi and Pat Fitzgerald, both coaches. Pat Fitzgerald, Gerald, I think he's one of the higher ups of the board.

Tom Fornelli (20:27)

That makes so much sense.

Danny Cannell (20:29)

Right. And both of them are fit Tom's criteria as coaches who have not coached in a playoff game. Pat Narduzzi literally said, the more the merrier. Which, you know, it's like fits to a T. And Pat Fitzgerald said more access is better for everybody. But the thing that was interesting is we'd asked Narduzzi about the calendar. How would you fix the calendar? And man, he wanted to go back to 1995 like he was because he said why do we do signing day in December? He's like why don't we move? When he asked both Dusty, I was like, when did you guys sign? We February 5th, February 4th. He's like perfect, let's go back to that. Like he very much wanted to go back to the old school calendar. I don't think we can do that, but I think it'd be a fun exercise.

Tom Fornelli (21:14)

The Pat Pat Narduzzi who famously looked at I believe the story is he looked at the like a room of coaches like guys just beat Clemson. What's the big deal? Why do you keep complaining about this? I did. Come on, just be Clinton. Stop complaining. All right. Again tomorrow, Friday 1pm Eastern Time. Come catch us on CBS Sports Network. We'll be rolling through all kinds of fun, talking a little bit more with specific proposals and dates for the calendar, some some post spring power ranking, Spring MVP and what new hire is off to the best start and more. And coming up on the other side, Tom has done the work so you don't have to does it feel like your quarterback is always getting the raw end of the deal when it comes to wide receiver drops? Might be true. We'll dive into the data and more next Furniture shopping can be overwhelming. There are so many options and it's hard to know what's actually worth it. That's why I always turn to reviews to guide my decisions. And if something has hundreds of five star reviews, I'm paying attention. And Bob's Discount Furniture has tons of highly rated pieces that make choosing a whole lot easier, like their Elm dining set which has over 700 five star reviews. It's a gorgeous setup with a real marble table and comfortable Boba Pedic seating that instantly upgrades your dining space. And at 999 it's a super approachable way to get that high end look. Or check out Bob's Copper Radiance Queen Extra Firm Mattress. Over 400 five star reviews and recommended by Consumer Reports. It's designed with a copper infused cover and high density Boba Pedic foam for support. Plus it comes with a 20 year warranty. And if you're looking for a sofa upgrade, the the modular Bob Sectional is a customer favorite with over 1,000 five star reviews. It's got soft, durable upholstery storage, wireless charging and starts at just 250 per piece so you can customize it without overthinking it. For quality furniture and everyday low prices, shop at Bob's. It's where America shops for furniture.

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Danny Cannell (24:08)

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Tom Fornelli (24:40)

back here on the COVID 3 podcast. Nothing gets me more excited than when, when, when Tom starts to pull on a thread, starts to think about something, he starts to get the data. And he has put it all together for you on CBSSports.com with a story looking at some of the quarterbacks that have been most impacted by drops. Now, anecdotally we've identified some of these, some of these quarterbacks here on, on the show. I think Malik Washington is the poster boy for this. Right? We just recognize the talent. We understand that the statistics do not match it. And when you watch a, when you watched a Maryland game, you could start to see why. So Tom, what got you going down this, down this line of thinking and what did you end up discovering?

Chip Patterson (25:26)

I was just, you know, sometimes like your for you page on Twitter is complete hellscape. But then there's once in a while, like comes a tweet that will inspire an idea. And there was a tweet on my for you page from somebody. It was, I put it in my story, but it was like a highlight reel of all the drop passes by Texas receivers last year, you know? Yeah, yeah. And it was like a Texas like, like saying, listen man, once, once Arch gets these guys that can actually catch the ball, his numbers, they're going to skyrocket. And I was like, huh, I wonder like, did. Was Arch truly unlucky? So I went And I looked it up and Arch was somewhat unlucky. It's just compared to other quarterbacks, not nearly as many like he's. He was not even in the top 10. As far as overall drops concerned, that was Malik Washington who had 39 passes dropped. And as you can see if you're watching live, the next most was Jake red slaff at 31. But of course you know, if you just look at the raw numbers, if a guy throws 500 passes, he's probably going to have more passes dropped than the guy who throws 300 just because of the amount of throws. Prosy mix so I decided to look at it from a, a percentage standpoint, a rate standpoint and I then adjusted like saw the difference between actual completion percentage and what it would have been if you took the drops out. So I removed them from the attempts and just did it. And you saw like the guy who had the best. As you can see again if you're watching live, AJ Swan at App State had a low. His adjusted rate improved 5.76% for drops. Bryce Underwood at Michigan had the second biggest jump up five and a half percent. Then it's Maddox Madsen, Tucker Gleason. Jake Red slapping Malik Washington was actually sixth overall. So when you take out the volume it's like he had the most, but he wasn't, wasn't the most unlucky. And on the other side for the lowest drops, Julian Saen turns out very accurate with good receivers. So like you barely saw an improvement there. Fernando Mendoza, same story, like literally a hundredth of a percentage point right behind him. Temples Evan Simon Braxton at Southern Miss and then Devin Dampier at Utah. But so I, I just, it was very interesting to see and you can look at those stats. Whereas like you could say, yes, Bryce Underwood was extremely unlucky. But when you do the adjusted completion rate, he went up from 60.3% to 65.8, which is better. But even if you just did that overall compared to every other qualified quarterback, that was still only the 70th best percentage in the country. What was more interesting is Arch Mannings went up to 64.92. That ranked 81st. So Arch Manning was not nearly as unlucky as some Texas fans are hoping to believe. So if you're looking for some kind of huge jump in the numbers just because you've got Cam Coleman and better receivers, you're probably not going to see it. That doesn't mean Arch isn't going to improve just on his own. As far as Accuracy. And it doesn't mean that his receivers won't be better and the numbers will improve. It's just, I think one of those things, when you watch your team all year and you see guys dropping passes and you're thinking, man, I wish we had guys who could catch. Every single fan watching their team every single week is thinking the same thing because everybody is dropping passes. But a little, a little fun one here. Do you know, like Julian saying, if you do, the adjusted completion rate was at 78.18%, which was the best in the country, but he led it. An actual completion rate too, so not a shock. But you know who would have finished second if you took out drops? Who? Want to guess? Anybody? Anybody?

Tom Fornelli (28:49)

It's not one of the names we've seen. Like, it's not Maddox Madsen.

Chip Patterson (28:52)

It's not any of the names we've seen on those graphics.

Tom Fornelli (28:55)

Damon Williams.

Chip Patterson (28:57)

Nope. All right, Carson Beck, he, he completed 72.4% of his passes overall last year. But if you take out the drops, he was at 75.62, which was second ahead of Dante Moore in third, Dylan Raiola in fourth, and then Texas State's Brad Jackson was fifth. And another surprise, Joe, who was sixth. Now, he wasn't throwing a lot of deep balls. Diego Pavia, you take out the drops, completed 73.5% of his passes last year.

Danny Cannell (29:26)

Wow.

Tom Fornelli (29:28)

Why didn't NFL teams call Tom about this?

Danny Cannell (29:31)

Right.

Tom Fornelli (29:32)

Does Diego Pavia get drafted? If Tom writes this story three weeks earlier, people are asking, Danny, does this check out? I mean, our resident quarterback, does it? Does the data sort of line up with the way that you, you see the game, either with these quarterbacks in particular or in general?

Danny Cannell (29:49)

Yeah, definitely change the perception of, I mean, there's a big difference. When you just scan completion percentage and you look at it, you're like, man, that was a rough year. But when you can actually go look at this, I'd be curious to know what constitutes a drop. Like how obvious it is, or is it like a one handed grab and it hits his hand? Is that a drop? What database did you use to find the drop?

Chip Patterson (30:11)

Yeah. Pff.

Danny Cannell (30:12)

Yeah.

Tom Fornelli (30:13)

Which we get through True media. Right.

Danny Cannell (30:16)

I mean, I think you'd also. I mean, I. Not the art of throwing the ball away is a lost art because I think the players now are concerned about their completion percentage. But I was always kind of irritated by that because I, I threw the ball away a ton. Like if I was going to get pressure, I'd throw it away. So I'd love to know that one if you added that in as well. Now, again, players don't do it as much, but that. Absolutely. Like interceptions that are tipped balls are not your fault. I think there's a lot of ways you could dive deep into the numbers and look at quarterbacks. Completely different. Did Coach eye opening? This is good stuff. I like this.

Tom Fornelli (30:49)

Did Coach Rich coach that up in terms of like, if you don't see it, just. We're going to throw the ball 46 times, Danny. If you don't see it, don't force it. You'll have another crack at this.

Danny Cannell (30:58)

Yeah, I mean, I watched Marino growing up. I mean, I was a strictly pocket passer. I think a lot of these kids, if there's not a play they'll run or take, you know, they'll run it up to line of scrimmage. I was thinking, don't take sacks, you know, don't take a sack, throw it away last minute. You know how I just got to get outside the tackle, get it to line of scrimmage. Whereas now I think players are scrambling around trying to make a play, and if they can't, I'll get up for a 2 or 3 yard loss as opposed to a 7, 8 yard loss. And that's what I was trying to do.

Tom Fornelli (31:24)

Last one. One more thing here to reflect back on Archmaining season. It's common in the tailgate. Just sparked this one for me. Have we. Did we ever have a, like a. A final verdict on Arch Manning's health? We spent what, three weeks wondering if he was right.

Danny Cannell (31:41)

Surgery was kind of quiet, too.

Tom Fornelli (31:43)

Yeah, it was surgery. Like, is. I mean, is that your weight? I mean, was it like an oblique? I mean, this is. We got. We got a lot.

Danny Cannell (31:50)

A lot of.

Tom Fornelli (31:50)

A lot of secret nicks and nicks and nags with our, with our boy Arch. Do you think that would have impacted some of those numbers? Certainly, right?

Chip Patterson (31:59)

Probably. But I mean, if only. His guys probably would have dropped him, though. That's what Texas fans will tell you right now. Now that they've got some real receivers in there, everything's going to be just.

Danny Cannell (32:09)

Do we know a game that he was injured in or was it. Was it nagging all season long? Because it might have been. It might have been Ohio State, right? It might have been, yeah. Or I thought it was something that he might have had all season long. That does impact your ability.

Tom Fornelli (32:26)

There's like the screenshots of him grimacing as he threw it and then somebody else came back. I was like, no, he just makes Eli.

Danny Cannell (32:36)

It's in the family.

Tom Fornelli (32:38)

Oh man. Yeah, lots of great stuff there. And if you want to go see the full data set, go and check it out over@cbssports.com always read Tom. My life has been made better since I changed that and began to read Tom. And yours can as well. Coming up on the other side, Diving into the big old bag of mail with an interesting follow up to the Brendan Sorsby story and more.

Danny Cannell (33:02)

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Tom Fornelli (33:59)

May 10th exclusion supply. See homedepot.com pricematch for details back here on the COVID 3 podcast. And yes, on Thursdays, we like to jump into the big old bag of mail. You leave us a five star review and you put your question in there. We'll tackle it in a future Mailbag episode. You jump in, Spotify comments, we'll get it. You reach out to us so many different ways to get your question on the show. So Stryker, will you take us down to the mailroom? All right, this first question does come from the Apple podcast, username Scentsy Johnny Scentsy Johnny says this is the only college pod for me. Great stuff. 52 weeks a year. Brendan Sorsby has hired a lawyer who has worked for NFL players with NFL issues since. Brendan Sorsby is under contract with Texas Tech, but the school doesn't have any collective bargaining with the ncaa. Does that hurt or help his cause?

Chip Patterson (35:07)

I. I think it, I don't know if it will help. I think it's more likely to help than hurt because I think if you're, if you've got like a employee status and you've got a cba, I'm sure that the rules are going to be pretty clear cut, right? There's no you can't bet. And if you Do. You're suspended. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter whether your team owner buys you a lawyer or not. So I would say it's far more likely to help than hurt. I don't. Don't know if it will. Like I, I do think the ncaa, in a situation like this, the rules are pretty cut and dry.

Danny Cannell (35:41)

It didn't help Calvin Ridley in the NFL. He's an employee. Got suspended a year. You know Jameson Williams too. Yeah, yeah. He wasn't spending a year, but I think he was six games. You know, it didn't help and I. You would think the union would go to bat for him. I don't even think those were reduced at all. It was just clear cut. Here it is. It is what it is.

Chip Patterson (36:01)

I mean, if you look at. What's his name, Emmanuel, Class A, the pitcher for the Guardians who got nailed. Did the union really go to bat for him?

Tom Fornelli (36:09)

That. No, because that was funny and dumb. Okay. Doing first pitch prop bets as your way to, to, to cheat the system is funny and dumb.

Danny Cannell (36:22)

Especially when you're making. What was this supposed to, 20 million a year or something crazy. Yeah, yeah.

Chip Patterson (36:29)

Some things.

Tom Fornelli (36:29)

This thing is high. I am pitching this. This is sweet music coming. Throw down everything. Do we have a Tom. I've been. I had to back off baseball for about a week or two there did. Do we have anything, any other room, any. Any rumors or any concerns about any foul play anywhere in the baseball world right now? Because I remember that the, the Guardians one was one that was kind of starting to bubble even before it became a scandal. Like this is, this is a little stinky right here. We don't have anything going right now. Right.

Chip Patterson (37:01)

I mean, outside of the Dodgers cheating all the time. No, I haven't heard anything.

Tom Fornelli (37:06)

They're, they're operating within the system that was set up for the Dodgers to be awesome. Okay. That's exactly how that one works. I, I think that the, the Brendan and Jeffrey Kessler, by the way, is the name of the attorney who has been a part of both NCAA and NFL. I mean he's. This, this is very much in his wheelhouse and what it leads to is going to be precedent setting. I don't, I don't, I don't.

Danny Cannell (37:36)

I don't. I think even Texas Tech insiders are like, we don't know. Yeah. And. But I think the one thing that you can say pretty confidently is that Texas Tech's gonna ride with Will Hammond or the young back. I forget who the other kid they signed was from the start a little bit. But they're and they're gonna and see what happens with Sourcebee, but I don't think they're gonna do anything else. I don't think they're gonna sign another quarterback, go the ghost signing and take on that risk of losing. I think they're just gonna hope for the best with what they've got on the table.

Tom Fornelli (38:13)

Very much so. All right, let's keep it going there in the Apple podcast land this next one comes from. I guess Flyers would be the one. Flyers says best CFP pod in the land. The C3 pod people. But Chip, Bud, Tom and Danny offer the best mix of CFP insights and fun conversations. Unlike other pods. I never miss a show, he asks the 2026 NFL Draft class was generally considered meh by Most and the 2027 class is expected to have much better talent this year. The Big Ten ACC and Big 12 had more high end draft picks, but the SEC was down in high end draft packs draft picks and the SEC was younger and retained top talent for 2026. So is the draft class meh because it has more Big Ten ACC and Big 12 than SEC talent at the top, or is the SEC retaining the talent for 2026 more of the reason?

Chip Patterson (39:16)

It was mad because it was meh.

Tom Fornelli (39:18)

Yeah.

Chip Patterson (39:19)

Why didn't the SEC have that talent? Like it's because it just was not a great class. And I would assume if you go back and look at like recruiting classes probably, you know, if you asked bud, probably they would probably be saying at the time, this class that these guys were all drafted from just now, they were probably saying at the time it's not a great class. Like at least not at the premier positions that typically make drafts really good. Like if there are stud quarterbacks, edge rushers and all those kind of stuff, you're going to say this class is great, but they just didn't have that in this one. And I think I agree next year's will be better. I have seen some people talking about how next year's will be like great. I don't know that I see that. I think the trend in drafts going forward with Nils will be that they're just going to get weaker because more and more guys are going to be staying for an extra year at the college level who are going to be mid round picks because they're going to get paid more to play another year of college than they would be as a third or fourth round pick. So unless the NFL changes its pay structure for Draft picks. We probably just have to get used to the draft classes not being as deep as they were before.

Danny Cannell (40:26)

Yeah, I think it's cyclical. I think you just had a bad, a bad class, a bad batch. You know, it's not the first year we've seen drafts that don't have, you know, too much star power. I think this is just one of those years.

Tom Fornelli (40:38)

We're also still in the kind of immediate shadow of those seven Georgia players and six Alabama players in every single first round which came from sort of that pre. You know, just as the portal was getting going really before this nil. Everything really took hold with Rev Share. You you did have to the eye of an NFL scout, a whole bunch of former five star prospects who were all coming out of the same places and all coming out of the same strength programs and it just. There, there was an absence of that. But that doesn't mean you were. There was an absence like does. It doesn't necessarily I think correlate if it was a, if it was a lazy take by some. Sure, you're just used to seeing more of the same. But I mean I think that you're going to see, you're going to continue to see the talent more spread out across the conferences and across the schools when it comes to first round talent every year sort of moving forward as that continues to happen across the entire sport. Kind of a fun one from Spotify on this one it's about byu. So when we were talking about the outlook for we were Talking about the 5 for 5 Kimmin on Spotify said Danny's comment about Brandon Weeden type players no longer being a thing. If 5 for 5 happens has me thinking would BYU be decimated if 5 for 5 happens?

Danny Cannell (42:08)

No, because it's one of the exemptions.

Tom Fornelli (42:11)

Religious exemptions.

Chip Patterson (42:12)

Yep, yep.

Danny Cannell (42:13)

The religious exemption is one pregnancy is another one. What was the third?

Chip Patterson (42:20)

Which by the way, the day a college football player becomes pregnant. That will do.

Danny Cannell (42:24)

That's right. What if somebody does? I mean we do have paternity leave at our company. Like what if a player says he like would he be able. Is that the loophole they're going to look for? It's like to get an extra year. Hey, I was trying to be a dad. I need an extra year. I was trying to help. What's the third one? Is it military service? Is the other one? Yeah, yeah, military service, religious exemption and those three. So yeah, BYU would be fine.

Chip Patterson (42:49)

Yeah, I can't wait until like BYU people are arguing that it's unfair that BYU gets to do it like because they're going like nine and three and getting knocked out in the first round or something. People are like, it's unfair that BYU gets to have 25 year olds who wouldn't be playing on my team.

Tom Fornelli (43:11)

I mean the.

Danny Cannell (43:12)

I'm glad it is. So you do think. I guess, I mean it's, it's an exemption. So could you in theory go as a freshman and then go for two years? I mean, I think most of them like rider lines. The quarterback I think is going right out of high school. Right. Like most, I don't know how it works, but I think it doesn't matter. If they did it right in the middle, I don't think it would be impacted.

Tom Fornelli (43:34)

I think you are correct, man. I want to say we've seen that.

Chip Patterson (43:38)

Yeah, I think that's the case.

Tom Fornelli (43:40)

I think we've had somebody who's done a year of college football, gone on their mission and then come back.

Danny Cannell (43:46)

Yeah, I think you've done that. I think they've seen that. Garrett had a great line.

Tom Fornelli (43:49)

All right, here we go. What if I go on a two year mission, then serve in the military and then get pregnant? That's the Chris Winky clock, right?

Danny Cannell (44:01)

Exactly. With multiple children, I mean you'd have to have multiple kids.

Tom Fornelli (44:08)

Antonio Cromartie meets Chris Winky. That's how you get a 40 year old quarterback.

Chip Patterson (44:12)

You mentioned Chris Winky. I mean, and this isn't a big deal because these are like outliers and unicorns, but I do wonder what that rule kind of impact will have on people who maybe are, you know, football, baseball guys, and then they choose baseball and then maybe it doesn't work. It's like, well, if, right. It's like if you go to high school and you're drafted out of high school and you go to the minors and it flames out, then can you still come back to college and have your five year clock start then, or does it start after high school?

Danny Cannell (44:41)

It starts after high school, 19 or when you graduate, whatever.

Chip Patterson (44:44)

So you're not going to see any more like Chris Swanky's or like not at that age.

Danny Cannell (44:48)

Now you could see, you know, give three years baseball a try and then you'd have two years to do football, you know. But that clock starts, which I don't, I don't love. I was somebody who considered that, you know, and didn't go that route. But it as a two sport athlete, like it does kind of like it hurts a little bit, but it is what it Is So does it end

Chip Patterson (45:10)

up just leading to more specialization for the kids you sport?

Danny Cannell (45:13)

Probably. And that's one thing I don't like. Yeah.

Tom Fornelli (45:15)

What's been our best. What's been our best multi sport athlete in college football in the last couple of seasons?

Danny Cannell (45:23)

On the last. What was the kid at Ole Miss?

Tom Fornelli (45:27)

Travis Hunter? Offense, Defense.

Danny Cannell (45:29)

Yeah.

Chip Patterson (45:29)

Kyler Murray I would say is definitely. He was like a first round pick in the MLB draft.

Danny Cannell (45:34)

Yeah. What was the Ole Miss? Ucf. Receiver?

Tom Fornelli (45:38)

Quarterback.

Danny Cannell (45:39)

Oh, I can't think.

Tom Fornelli (45:41)

John Plumlee.

Danny Cannell (45:42)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tom Fornelli (45:43)

Who I think is playing for Kevin Sumlin in the UFL right now.

Danny Cannell (45:47)

Hell yeah. I think you might be right.

Chip Patterson (45:49)

Jamis was a good baseball player. Good calls.

Danny Cannell (45:53)

Marja. That was a while ago though.

Tom Fornelli (45:55)

I thought it was gonna be Austin Simmons.

Danny Cannell (45:57)

Yeah, yeah.

Tom Fornelli (45:59)

You know.

Chip Patterson (45:59)

Yep.

Tom Fornelli (46:00)

But it's also is now.

Danny Cannell (46:02)

Now what you would do is you would go give football the try and if football doesn't work out, then you go minor league baseball. So you just flip your.

Chip Patterson (46:09)

Your choices so get, get the hell beat out of you for five years and then go try to play baseball while you're sore. There are.

Tom Fornelli (46:20)

Did we do the college fantasy challenge two years ago? Was that it when we all did a college fantasy?

Chip Patterson (46:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Fornelli (46:28)

Did a check in. Okay, so this, this next question. This next question comes from Michael. He says hi guys. Love the show. I'm an avid NFL fantasy football player. I've recently started getting into college fantasy football. In my opinion, it takes a lot more research, but that is the fun part. My question to you all. Do you think that once the top of college football consolidates to 40 or so teams and players collectively bargain that college fantasy football has the potential to explode? It feels like there's a lot of room for growth with the current barriers of entry being too many teams and roster turnover. Appreciate your thoughts. Michael in Chicago.

Chip Patterson (47:17)

Yeah, I don't know if it would be like NFL fantasy football, but I definitely think like what Michael touches on is part of what makes it difficult for college are there are so many teams. So it's like you're. You've got like the New Mexico State quarterback because yeah, sure, his team sucks, but he's racking up rushing yards and he scores points. So I, I do think that if you see like a breakaway and it's a smaller whatever kind of league you want to call it and there are fewer teams, I definitely think that you'll see people like outlets lean more into fantasy and start pushing it because it is a way to drive fan interest in the sport that's not just your team, like, it gets you caring about other games the same way that gambling does, which is why they push it for that so much. So, yeah, I think that's a very logical prediction of what could happen.

Danny Cannell (48:04)

I mean, I think it's slowly, and he even alluded to it, that it's gained more traction. I think it only makes sense to track that it would gain in popularity.

Tom Fornelli (48:12)

How does that run alongside or against the push to eliminate prop bets for college athletes, which is a big part of the nc, the ncaa, if it's going to have one thing that it's fighting for right now? They know they can't stop gambling, you know, like they can't go state to state and eliminate college sports. But Charlie Baker has mentioned and there are a lot of athletes that have voiced, you know, their support for this, but taking prop bets out of the market for college sports,

Chip Patterson (48:48)

I think it's a, it's in the same vein, but I think it's different. I mean, if you've got a fantasy team with like 15 guys on it and one guy underperformed, sure, you're going to be mad at him, but it's not like you're losing, you know, not

Tom Fornelli (48:59)

losing three grand because somebody.

Chip Patterson (49:02)

You just lost your week's matchup maybe. So it's like, I don't, I don't think the vitriol is quite the same now. I mean, that's, that doesn't mean there aren't absolute psycho morons online who are going to get mad about it, because there are and there always have been and there always will be. And they're also going to be in the stand still, too. So it's just, that's just something I think you kind of have to deal with. It just comes with the territory.

Tom Fornelli (49:24)

The. My experience of college fantasy football was you had to find. And I think this was when Jeff Prom was at Western Kentucky. You just load up on Western Kentucky wide receivers.

Chip Patterson (49:36)

Yep.

Tom Fornelli (49:38)

It didn't even feel like the same conversation that I was having to cover the sport, you know, and that's, that's where for my, my person, I don't want to push back against college fantasy football. I don't want to yuck anyone's yummy. But the thing that has made college fantasy football less attractive to me is it does not feel like it goes hand in hand with covering the sport. When our responsibility is to talk about the teams that are the most significant, the performance across the board. It seems like you can find a lot of Skill players for four and eight teams that are going out there and putting up bananas numbers that would lead to a fantasy success. But that doesn't help me communicate to a college football fan exactly what's going on.

Chip Patterson (50:22)

Yeah, I think there it'd be more, for me, it'd be more interesting, like if you were just doing like a conference specific league like you and, you know, 11 other buddies are in a college league and you're drafting SEC players or Big ten players or whatever league you guys care about. So. Yeah, I. Although I do wonder if maybe there's something to it to where, when you're doing fantasy NFL, you might draft a player from a team in your favorite team's division just because he's good. But I wonder, like, if you're an Alabama fan and you're like, in an SEC only fantasy league, are you drafting Auburn players? Like. Or are you like.

Tom Fornelli (50:55)

No, you're not drafting Auburn players.

Chip Patterson (50:57)

Okay, sweep it around. If you're Auburn, are you drafting Alabama or Georgia players because you hate them. So I don't know, maybe that's part of it too. Whereas it's like it kind of interrupts the hate and for college football fans, who you're kind of wired a different way to view other teams. Whereas the NFL, I think everybody kind of realizes what it is. Like, you want your team to win, but it's also a television product. More.

Danny Cannell (51:18)

Yeah.

Tom Fornelli (51:20)

With a few minutes that we've got left here, we do have a little bit of breaking news in the college football world. And I mean, just, just Ryan absolutely on it. It's. It's too bad Bud couldn't totally interrupt a conversation topic to give us a Florida State scheduling update as mutually.

Danny Cannell (51:39)

Okay, it says mutually agreed. All right.

Tom Fornelli (51:41)

Do you remember what it was like we were talking about something else entirely. And he goes. Notre Dame no longer on the Florida State schedule. Florida State and Georgia have canceled the series.

Chip Patterson (51:54)

Florida State opting out of a game against Georgia.

Danny Cannell (51:58)

Can you not read, Tom? It says mutually. I think Georgia didn't want that smoke. He didn't want that smoke. They're scared.

Chip Patterson (52:07)

History does repeat itself, I guess.

Tom Fornelli (52:10)

What does. Is there anything like, is this. Is this the ninth game? Because remember, SEC and ACC both adding the ninth game, though, remember, for the acc, not for everybody. But yes, the ninth game, in spirit at least, has been added for both the SEC and the acc. You see this? Thank you, striker, for dropping the mutually so that when this one, when we get some fly by Knoll fans, they understand exactly where this goes. What's what, what's, what's the thought here?

Chip Patterson (52:43)

Wouldn't happen with the 2014 playoff.

Danny Cannell (52:46)

It's probably true when it says that they are, they're discussing a neutral site game matchup. This is a little bit kind of a reach. But you guys paid attention to the Duke deal they cut with Amazon Prime.

Chip Patterson (53:02)

Yep.

Danny Cannell (53:04)

Think there's any chance they're trying to explore similar option here? And that already hit a snag, by the way, because I think Fox was like, hold on a second, hold on

Chip Patterson (53:14)

a minute, hold on.

Danny Cannell (53:15)

You made that deal with ESPN and traded them some games down the road. But I do wonder. I have no idea. But like if you were trying to look for ways in. Florida State desperately needs ways to bring in some revenue. If that was a reason, I don't know. That means probably just.

Tom Fornelli (53:32)

I do think you can make, you can probably make more money agreeing to the neutral site game.

Chip Patterson (53:37)

Right.

Tom Fornelli (53:38)

Even if your gate and all of the local economic impact is going to be bigger. Getting, getting Georgia to come to your house. If you just, if you're trying to turn a non conference game into a quick payday, agreeing for whatever the COVID 3 podcast kickoff classic is going to be, you know, in Atlanta.

Danny Cannell (53:58)

Right.

Tom Fornelli (53:59)

Probably going to end up being getting a nice little payday where I mean, I'll tell you what, if you're Florida State and you're trying to figure out how to make the spreadsheets work, the money you make probably covers all the travel expenses, right? You know?

Danny Cannell (54:12)

Yeah.

Tom Fornelli (54:13)

How's that? Like Kevin Willard left Maryland because he couldn't spend an extra night in New York City at Christmas time. You know, maybe, maybe Florida State gets to spend an extra night in Atlanta after they play Georgia in this one. That's financial scheduling.

Danny Cannell (54:30)

I mean, it bums me out from a matchup perspective. I mean I granted Georgia's in a way better place and we saw what happened the last time they played. But it does bum me out, I think. I mean I've. The Bama Florida State series has been fun. It was great Florida State last year. We'll see how it goes this year in Tuscaloosa. But talking to Alabama fans in Tallahassee that just wanted to see, you know, the stadium, wanted to see the chop going on. Like they loved it, they had a great time. You know, obviously the game didn't go, they wanted to. But I, you know, I would have loved to seen Florida State go between the hedges and get to play in SEC country. I mean, that's the thing that bums me out for fans and I've already seen some fans upset because as a season ticket holder you get kind of screwed there for a neutral site game.

Ad Voice / Advertiser (55:12)

Mm.

Tom Fornelli (55:13)

Yeah, that's it is a of the long list of things that conference commissioners, university presidents, athletic directors are being concerned about. It does seem like the season ticket holders are being taken for granted. Like it's the one number that they feel like they can't really increase, they can't really change and they hope that they're not going to see massive cancellations because no matter how many angry voicemails or angry emails are fired in, they're kind of at the, you know, they've kind of at a leverage disadvantage when it comes to those, those home games. So we'll see Florida State and Georgia mutually agree to cancel an up upcoming home and home series. We'll see if there's any follow up news about a neutral site game.

Chip Patterson (56:02)

Why aren't Florida State fans excited to see New Mexico State Central Arkansas?

Tom Fornelli (56:10)

I do think the Central Arkansas game at least brings back the photo of Mike Norvell with the Cornrows when he was a wide receiver in Central Arkansas.

Chip Patterson (56:17)

That's right.

Tom Fornelli (56:18)

Anything to get him in that purple Bears uniform from his, his, his photo.

Danny Cannell (56:24)

And both of them already do play in other sec. You know, they already play. Georgia plays Georgia Tech, Florida State plays Florida does get to be when you're getting 10, possibly 11, you know, power four games, you're like what are we doing here?

Tom Fornelli (56:37)

Yep, I understand. But still disappointing for sure.

Danny Cannell (56:42)

All right.

Tom Fornelli (56:42)

We will be back on Monday, 11am Eastern Time. Come and hang out@YouTube.com cover three. That's not all. Watch us live on CBS Sports Network Friday, 1pm Eastern Time. So Friday tomorrow 1pm Eastern Time will be on CBS Sports Network. Then back here, same place, same time, 11am on Monday for the next live YouTube Hangout. And you can follow him on Twitter tomfinell. You can follow him at Danny Canello. You can follow me at Chippatterson. Gentlemen, thank you very much.

Chip Patterson (57:16)

Thank you.

Danny Cannell (57:17)

See ya.

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