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- [00:00]
Narrator/Advertiser
Finding a skilled hire takes more than just reviewing a resume as AI raises the bar on how experience is presented. Hiring managers need better ways to evaluate skills and fit. That's where Robert Half can help our recruiters combine their expertise with award winning AI to review what's behind every application. Quickly learn how we can find you specialized talent in finance, accounting, technology and more at Robert Half. We know talent. Visit roberthalf.com talent today why have we
- [00:31]
Danny Kanell
asked our contractor we found on Angie.com
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Chip Patterson
to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we
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Danny Kanell
could trust him to care for our kids.
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Chip Patterson
We only met a month ago.
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Tom Fornelli
Angie, the one you trust to find
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Bud Elliott
the ones you trust.
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Tom Fornelli
Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com
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Danny Kanell
welcome back to the COVID 3 podcast with your hosts Chip Patterson, Tom Fornelli, Danny Cannell and Bud Elliott. It's your call for the best college football coverage from national signing, the national
- [01:02]
Bud Elliott
championship and everything in between.
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Danny Kanell
CBS Sports presents the COVID 3 podcast.
- [01:10]
Chip Patterson
And welcome back to the COVID 3 podcast here on CBS Sports. That's Tom Fenelli, that's Bud Elliott, that's Danny Cannell. I'm Chip Patterson. Come to you live@YouTube.com cover3 and everywhere. Get your podcast on demand. Thanks for hanging out. Smash that subscribe smash that like and come and join us in the chat aka the COVID 3 tailgate where Ryan and Dash and Dirty Dogs and Lane and Joey all have comments and questions that will join our interactive show here on a Thursday. Couple of questions from the big old bag of mail. But of course as you see it, we are going to be diving into the NFL Draft Combine on field activities begin on Thursday in Indianapolis. And so let's go to the tailgate before we jump into a news item or two because at 9:52am Eastern Time, our guy BL1632 asks Danny, what was your experience at the combine? Get any weird questions or interview experiences? Danny, canal your pre draft process. What do you recall from that time?
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Danny Kanell
I remember it being super stressful. You know, like, I mean it's the biggest job interview life. You don't know where you're going to get drafted. You hear a ton of different rumors, you know, your agents telling you different things. I remember, you know, they always did the drug test super early. So I remember having to wake up at like 5:00am, you know, 5:30am to do your, you know, urine test. Right away.
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Chip Patterson
I remember it's just and you're very stressed about that. You're very.
- [02:45]
Danny Kanell
I wasn't stressed about that, but it was. It just added to the length of the day. Like, it was exhausting, you know, because you had to get up so early, and then you go through these meetings, and it's basically like speed dating. Speed dating. You get about 15 minutes in each room, and so you go in and you're talking to the Eagle staff. You know, in some rooms, there's 10 guys in it. Some guys, there's two or three in it. But you're going from little conference room to conference room to conference room, shuttling through those, and that's where you do the interviews, and that's where you get some of the questions. And mine were. I didn't get too many bizarre questions, you know, maybe some. Like, because my dad worked in the NFL, he was a team doctor for the Dolphins. There may be something about that, but most of it was more, how much football do you know? Like, tell me what you were doing. Like, give me your two favorite plays and, you know, what was your favorite game? What was your worst game? Stuff like that. And why do you think you struggled? Who was the best players you played against? Just kind of trying to get to know how much you knew about the sport, how much you love the sport. Like, hey, you know, like, the. The players are so prepped now, in the process, they know exactly what's getting thrown their way. But the craziest thing was, was John Gruden was the quarterback coach for the Philadelphia Eagles at the time. And I remember he did one of the more bizarre things.
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Chip Patterson
Wow.
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Bud Elliott
He.
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Danny Kanell
Because, I mean, how he does his thing now with the cadence. He didn't have me do a cadence, thankfully, he didn't have me yell because I. I was not very vocal at the time. I probably would have just not impressed him. But he was like, all right, I'm gonna give you a play. Tell it right back to me, you know? And he. And then he gave me this long play that I had never heard before, and you had to spit it right back. So it was like, king, right, trip wing, Sadie, Q B, 235, quarterback pass, wing, 8, Y6, Bam. Say it back to me. Say it back to me. And you're thinking, like, oh, like. And you just have to repeat it. He, like, wanted to test your recall, and it was. It was bizarre. I don't think I aced it, which is probably why they took Bobby hoing over me in the third round, and I dropped to the fourth round. But that was one of the things I Remember? Because. And it wasn't like Gruden was a hot name, but it really stuck out to me because he had me do this thing that was kind of out there, which thing was wild, that the New York Giants famously had a psych evaluation that players hated. Like, you didn't want to do it because it was 400 questions. And it was all that. That was bizarre. That was. Do you like dogs or cats? Do you get faint at the sight of the blood? Are you closer to your mom or dad? Like, a lot of yes, no questions. And there were, like, 400 of them.
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Chip Patterson
How long did it take?
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Tom Fornelli
You were an animal. What animal would you be?
- [05:32]
Chip Patterson
Were you? It's so funny, as you were telling that story, I would think, knowing you, but I won't. I mean, I've. I didn't know you then, but I would think, knowing you, that you would do well in some of those interviews. Do you think that you are not the same sort of like. Like, you said you weren't as vocal.
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Danny Kanell
Like, I thought that I was fine. I think I was a good talker, but I was not very loud. Like, I never liked my cadence, even in the NFL. I don't think I was great at pulling guys off sides, you know, like, there's some guys that are just really good at it. I was not somebody who had a really great voice, like a deep baritone. Like, I'm always jealous of dudes that
- [06:08]
Chip Patterson
have good cadences, but, like, as a net. But as a conversationalist, as a person.
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Danny Kanell
Yeah.
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Chip Patterson
Now, like, you have that.
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Danny Kanell
The Giants had a psychologist on the staff, and he told me, he said I had one of the highest scores they had ever received for, like, presents and which kind of tells you how garbage the exam is, doesn't really predict how good you're going to be at the next level, so. Because I. All I kept thinking was, what would you want to hear from a franchise quarterback? Like, and it wasn't even necessarily me. I'm like, well, maybe I'm closer to my mom, but there's no way I'm going to say, I'm a mama's boy. I'm closer to my dad. Like, that was going through my head, though, whole time with every question was, what do they want to hear from a franchise quarterback? You know? And you think leadership, you think of competitiveness, you know? So I was thinking of it from that angle every time, even if it wasn't truly who I was. Oh.
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Chip Patterson
Oh, mute.
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Bud Elliott
Oh, I got it.
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Danny Kanell
Oh, wow.
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Chip Patterson
That's okay.
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Bud Elliott
When you were at fsu, had they simplified the play calls to run the fast break?
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Danny Kanell
Oh, my gosh. Our playbook was a joke. And that came out probably a decade later was how simplified the offense and defense was at Florida State. I mean, Mickey Andrews just ran a lot of man and just had his guys press and just had dudes get after the quarterback. But in the offense, we had like a little notepad. It was probably something like this, this big, and it was like a spiral flip over. And we would get this at the training camp coming in and we would take notes and Mark Rick would draw the offense on the board and we just wrote notes. We didn't have a playbook like in most schools. Now everybody has them. We just took notes and kind of memorized it. And we really didn't do that much different over the four years. And it was something that Mark Rick told me my freshman year. He's like, you guys might feel like you're swimming now, but by the time you leave here, you'll be able to teach this at the board. And sure enough, probably by my second year, I could teach it. But there wasn't a lot of new stuff. I mean, our stuff that was kind of. We didn't have playbooks. It was more memorization and a lot of it was language because we just, because we ran the fast break, no huddle. We had different code words, you know, that we would use to call the different plays. So we were constantly mixing those up. But the concepts we were running weren't real complicated and it wasn't like we did a bunch of different stuff. That was the biggest jump for me. The NFL wasn't the speed, it was the, the playbook and consuming so much more formations and, you know, language and newer plays. Every week you're putting in new concepts. We didn't do that very much at all. Maybe a wrinkle or a trick play. That was it.
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Bud Elliott
You guys are really ahead of your time. Then as far as like, I mean, fast forward, what, 10, 15 years when, when tempo was really taking over college ball, like everybody was just one word place, right?
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Chip Patterson
You know, or, or, or the, the meme face on the board, Right?
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Bud Elliott
Yeah, exactly. You know, and, and I wonder, I wonder how much the NFL has, like, the NFL has obviously stolen a lot of stuff from college. I wonder how much the NFL has like kind of come back to college to where, you know, you don't end up missing on a guy because he can't call out a 15 word play. Right, right, right. Like, you know, is that really the best way to Utilize your town. I'd be curious just to know, like, how complex the calls are now in the NFL.
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Chip Patterson
Yeah,
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Danny Kanell
there was a couple. I know. I think it was the Rams with Mike Martz, who were very numerical. You know, it was like. The play was like, seven, six, seven, you know, or, you know, like, it was. That was that simple. It was quick, short. But they're still. Like when I was in Shanahan's, and I think Kyle Shanahan's running a lot of the same stuff, and that's kind of the west coast offense. It's pretty wordy, you know, And I think I saw Matthew Stafford in a huddle. He was talking with McVeigh, and he was like, get out. Like, shut up. I got the play because it was taking so long to get in, but he knew what it was going to finish, and it was pretty wordy. So I think it just depends on the systems.
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Bud Elliott
So would you guys just. So, I mean, usually it's. What protection concept, a tag. Would you guys like. You guys would. One word that or you just like, three words.
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Danny Kanell
Ours was so easy. So we ran a lot of shotgun. Just four wide receivers, shotgun formation, and it was no huddle. So we. All I would do every time was set the strength. So I would be yelling as soon as the play was over. If it was the ball was on the left hash, I would be saying, right. Like, that was the strength. Right, right, right. Like, right. Gun. We didn't have to say gun, because everybody knew it. So I'd just be going right, right, right to get the receivers on the right side of the field. And then the protection, you know, I'd say 565, 60. And then I would give a signal for a vertical or, you know, smash was this. You know, we had a couple different things, but it was. And we'd had. We had our shallow cross concept, which was big at the time, was running shallow cross series, and it'd be one Z, you know, one was Shallow Cross. Z was running it, and then everybody else knew what they were doing, or it was 1Y, you know, and you'd go like this for the y signal or 1x, and you just had to go 1x. And everybody kind of knew what to do off that. And if you felt like they were getting a beat off it, you might tell, you know, if you were one in one Z, which was basically a strong side concept, and you had a hot on the backside, you might call a double move to the X on the weak side just to keep modest, you know, something to something to throw some flavor in there or you know, the 1Z concept was a shallow cross, a curl behind it and work done on a flare. And so.
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Chip Patterson
Oh, that's a good play. Do that.
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Danny Kanell
Yeah.
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Bud Elliott
How many guys, when you guys didn't huddle, would Rick signal the plays in or would you have a ga do it?
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Danny Kanell
He was upstairs in the booth.
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Bud Elliott
Right.
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Danny Kanell
So usually Jeff Bowden was, was the wide receiver coach. He was the one signaling him in.
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Bud Elliott
So was he always hot?
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Chip Patterson
Who?
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Danny Kanell
Oh, like, yeah, we didn't have multiple guys signal. We had one guy, which is kind of crazy thinking about now how people still signals. And he even wore because it was kind of hard to find them. There's so many people on the sideline. He had like a, a wristband or like a big right orange something on his thing. Like it was, hey everybody, I'm calling the plays. Like if they wanted to steal them, they easily could have without. Like very easily.
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Bud Elliott
I talked to coach the other day and he was like. When they started having four or five guys signal, we would research the bios of who these kids are. And so, right. And like, all right, like, who is the coach really going to trust to actually be live with the signals? It's probably not the fourth string quarterback who's high as hell most days of the week. Right.
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Chip Patterson
We're gonna pick off. We are going to character.
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Tom Fornelli
I think you have their first one and last leave.
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Bud Elliott
If you think you have the signal stolen right. From, you know, previous games or whatever, you're probably not. Like, you could waste multiple series trying to figure out who's hot or who's live. Like, so if you can kind of like process elimination, right? Probably not that guy. And he's like, you know, one or two series in, he's not really paying attention, you know, and he's kind of half assing these things. He's probably not live. And then you, you kind of narrow it down, right. And if you do your homework on it, you can figure out like you can figure, okay, they might be switching at halftime.
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Danny Kanell
Right, Right.
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Chip Patterson
Coach number three graduated from the naval academy, right? Yeah.
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Bud Elliott
That could be a good guy to do the signals. Yeah, exactly.
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Tom Fornelli
Trying to find the guy who's just doing like the fake hand signs for the sign language during the speeches. Just sitting there like, oh, yeah, right.
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Bud Elliott
Did you ever. Did you ever think somebody had your calls?
- [13:48]
Danny Kanell
No, I. We were so freaking good. We were just better than everybody else. Like it was kind of like that's what it used to be like when the Cowboys were winning Super Bowls with the trio of Tory Aikman and Michael Irvin and Emmett Smith. They weren't doing a lot of complex stuff. And I remember them like saying, we were just executed better than everybody. And I did feel like with our system, even with like the shallow cross concept, there was sort of an answer for whatever they were doing, you know, so like, they might be able to take away one aspect of it, but there was. Should have been somebody open, you know, whether they blitzed that we knew the hot concept, whether they run in cover two, you know, we knew how we were going to beat it. Whether it was cover three. Like, we, we knew how to beat it, but a lot of it was we just had that much better dudes that we were just going to beat them.
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Chip Patterson
Yeah. Wasn't it the offensive line all awesome too?
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Danny Kanell
Yeah. Yeah, they were incredible.
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Tom Fornelli
Yeah.
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Bud Elliott
Did you guys call you in the huddle?
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Danny Kanell
Did what?
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Bud Elliott
When you guys did huddle, would you call like, I know a lot of teams now they'll call two in the huddle and they'll. They'll check which one.
- [14:50]
Danny Kanell
We did a check with me series, which was probably my junior, like Charlie's, the national championship year. We started doing more check with me. And that was basically we were just running to a bubble, you know, on that. We'd find the bubble on the offensive line and run that. Or, you know, if you were. The safety came down, you could flip it and go run away from the safety. Really basic stuff though, wasn't too complex and like. And we didn't really do double cadence, you know, that was kind of becoming more popular. We had a freeze play that we ran a little bit, but we were just starting to get into that where it was. We were going to try to get them to jump off sides. You would just. It was called freeze play in the huddle so that the offensive lineman couldn't jump off sides because there's no play to run. And yet every once in a while they would still. They would still jump. And I'd be like, what are you. What are you running? Like you're not supposed to know the play. And they'd be like, look up with that stupid look on their face. Like, I know, you know, how many
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Bud Elliott
different protections were you guys calling? Like a high level college football in like the early mid-90s, we had.
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Danny Kanell
So we had like a free release protection where there was just a five offensive lineman right backs out no matter what. That's hot. We had more of a six man protection where he would stay in and then we had our traditional, you know, max protection, which was 60 protection, which was a tight end in and both backs, you know, checking to make sure where you'd have seven man protected. And then you had your play action, you know, concepts, you know, which wasn't that complex. You know, that's probably it. Maybe five or six different protections.
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Chip Patterson
I'm gonna.
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Bud Elliott
We're kind of off the rails here. This is kind of. It's kind of interesting because, like, I mean, back then, passing was kind of. A lot of the best teams had just started deciding to throw the ball around more.
- [16:37]
Chip Patterson
Yeah, Shotgun was a big deal, not a dinosaur. Okay.
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Bud Elliott
A lot of your high schools were still running. We're still running some kind of option.
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Chip Patterson
Right.
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Danny Kanell
The fact that we were in shotgun was a big deal, and that was the fun. And gun in Florida was doing a lot of shotgun. Like, it was only. You only went in shotgun in third downs. And like, to be in shotgun for a whole half was like, whoa, this is groundbreaking. And now everybody's in a gun.
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Bud Elliott
I remember reading the newspaper here in Florida. So in 96, Florida had a crazy loaded team. FSU beats them in Tallahassee, beats the crap out of Danny Warfel and all the newspapers, like, leading up to the. To the Sugar bowl for the rematch, was will Spurrier decide to, like, finally, like, give in because he was stubborn with it and go shotgun because they were all under center for, you know, for the most part.
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Danny Kanell
Right.
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Bud Elliott
No, I don't mean. I don't mean to say daddy through the real first four pass. I'm just saying, like, you know, early 80s teams were not chucking it around very much. College football, like, late 80s, it started a little more, but not everybody was doing it still.
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Chip Patterson
Yeah, I'm. I. I'm gonna be thinking for all weekend about John Gruden. Pepper and DK with. With call Spider 2.
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Bud Elliott
Why?
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Chip Patterson
But you thought Spider 2Y banana was crazy. You know, he's. He probably had that thing strung all the way out. He.
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Tom Fornelli
Have you.
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Chip Patterson
Have you run into Gruden professionally?
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Danny Kanell
Yeah, I've interviewed him a few times. You know, when he was on. When I was at espn, we'd have him on the radio every once in a while.
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Tom Fornelli
Have you forced them to answer a question if you just yelled out a call real quick and then forced them to repeat it to you?
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Danny Kanell
Because he would love it. He would love it. He'd spit it right back. Yeah, he would absolutely love it.
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Chip Patterson
Danny Canal, great eyes, couldn't call a play.
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Danny Kanell
Horrible recall.
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Chip Patterson
We'll do a lot more NFL draft combine talk coming up in just a little bit. Quick little news item here coming across the desk yesterday afternoon. Cincinnati has sued former quarterback Brendan Sorsby, of course, now at Texas Tech, alleging that he breached his nil contract with the Bearcats when he refused to pay a $1 million exit fee. Cincinnati's attorneys said the quarterback's representative advised that Sorsby refuses to pay the university anything billable hours. But is this. Do you some. We have seen and discussed universities and specifically football programs opting not to pursue some of this, you know, legal recourse. Duke obviously did with Darian Mensah. But there are other cases too where I think we've said it's almost like a for future, you know, messaging to recruits or prospects, a little bit of your reputation among players. What did you make of Cincinnati actually choosing to, to try and, and get after source B for, for a mill?
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Bud Elliott
I think the timing of this is interesting, right? So he, he, well, he had to pay within, within 30 days. Pretty standard.
- [19:44]
Chip Patterson
Right.
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Bud Elliott
And, and didn't. But what's happened within those, those 30 days? You've seen other teams, you know, pay the buyouts. Right. And so maybe Cincinnati's saying, and we got to balance the factors here, like do we really want to be in the business of suing our players? I think other schools are interested in this as well because does it set the precedent that this is like an employment contract?
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Danny Kanell
Yes, these are all not a contract
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Bud Elliott
for nil, which remember, emanating from the House settlement, all this is supposed to be, you know, the rev share is for your nil. Right. It's not for your services on the field, of course it's for your nil. Right. Because you don't pay long term disability and, and long term medical for, for nil. Of course. So I think that, look, there are people in the industry watching this, you know, pretty closely. But you know, after Mensa, after what happened at Washington and other places that, you know, buyouts were paid, if I'm sensing like, okay, like it's a former player and you know, are we really going to have a bad reputation for this, does it also have a chilling effect for other players deciding to, you know, maybe try to transfer out next year or not, you know, I think they probably just balance factor, say, okay, like, you know, he owes us a million. Will he actually get a million? Don't know. You know, your legal costs start to rack up on this as well, obviously. So, you know, maybe they can get something out of it then, then they get some money Back. Right.
- [21:13]
Tom Fornelli
All I know is had I known this beforehand, I would not have had Source be at 6 on my list yesterday. Would have knocked him down a few pegs. I mean I want a quarterback who pays his debts.
- [21:25]
Bud Elliott
Speaking of quarterbacks, I, I thought our. Did you guys find that this was a hard list to make yesterday?
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Tom Fornelli
Yes. After the first three from like that 7 to 15 ish range I was. There's like pretty much any guy I could have tossed in there and not felt terrible.
- [21:41]
Bud Elliott
But we all had a really similar top. Top four or five.
- [21:46]
Danny Kanell
Right.
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Chip Patterson
That was. So that'd be my question for you. Bud and Bud's, you know, buds list we were able to get at the end of the show and I know the, the graphics have been made. Where did you draw your line? That was like one of our final questions. Like where. Where did you feel like you could say that's a tier and then you jump into the. The next set of debates and conversations.
- [22:05]
Bud Elliott
Yeah, I so like, I didn't just among yalls list 2 guys I didn't have. Right. I, I didn't have Hoover, but it wouldn't shock me if he ends up being really good. I do think he's talented.
- [22:15]
Chip Patterson
No, no, but within your 10, like where does oh happen?
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Bud Elliott
I, I thought it was kind of a four and maybe a five. Like, like maybe my Eva. But Trinidad is really good too and I do think mentor is really damn good. I so kind of like a mini tier at like 4. I do think Dante, Julian, Arch and Carr are kind of a different level and then maybe like a mini tier of like 5, 6, 7. But I mean if Geronic Cal, like if you told me, hey, he's the best quarterback in college ball next year, I don't think he's going to be. But it's not outside the realm possibility that like based on the level of throws he made last year and operating a dirty pocket which, you know, he had sometimes, certainly that wouldn't totally shock me.
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Chip Patterson
Don't forget Cal also second in the ACC in drop rate last year and they have retooled the wide receiver room through the transfer.
- [23:06]
Bud Elliott
Oh, they're loaded at receiver and they're going to need to be because their schedule gets quite a bit more challenging this year than it was last year. You know, I, I think Sourceby's a little more of a runner than he is a thrower.
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Danny Kanell
You know, 100.
- [23:21]
Bud Elliott
They got a lot of pushback from Georgia fans for not having Gunner on
- [23:25]
Chip Patterson
there, but they, they didn't listen to the show then we talked.
- [23:28]
Bud Elliott
He's 11 to 25 for me, like a really valuable, nice college quarterback.
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Tom Fornelli
Was I the only one who had Gunner in the top 10?
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Bud Elliott
Yeah, I think so.
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Chip Patterson
I had him like 12, I think.
- [23:38]
Bud Elliott
Yeah, right.
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Chip Patterson
He's, you know, I took my list all the way out to 30 and Gunner's still right there on the edge where I feel he's comfortably above some of those next, you know, 15 to 25. But he just, he just didn't make my top 10. And so we'll see.
- [23:55]
Tom Fornelli
Kirby's got you. I felt like pinned down the wall in that locker room right now.
- [24:00]
Danny Kanell
I, I, the other thing I felt too, with mine, like, the top I, I would say five. I think I had a similar top four and I had, you know, add one more in there possibly. I, I, it's like, all right, I get it. You disagree. Like, I'm not ready to dig my heels. And like, if you disagree, I had turned out Chambliss a little bit lower and we talked about that. Worried about him without Lane Kiffin and without Charlie Weiss, I'm like, yeah, I saw it. I get it. Like, if you want to have him in your top five, by all means, go ahead. Like, it wasn't something. Even though there was a lot of hey, you're an idiot type stuff. You don't even do. You watch games. Like, I get that. But like, most of the people that responded, like there was a lot of mess to make or I'm like, yeah, I see it. Put them on your top 10, just didn't make mine. But I think the one thing that was pretty overwhelming is how different this year going into season is last year because last year it was such a crapshoot. So many guys, first year starters, new programs, so much uncertainty. The amount, the level of talent that's coming back should provide a really fun year. College football with some pretty high level quarterback play you would expect.
- [25:07]
Chip Patterson
One last thing on Sourcebee before I hit a break and then we get into NFL draft. I could not help but consider that if Brendan Soaresby had transferred, I don't know, to anywhere not named Texas Tech with the, the money gun that it's like there's a little bit of like, if you're Cincinnati and you're doing the math on this, is there public sentiment? I mean, every, even the tailgate, as soon as we started talking about this story, it's like, oh, well, Texas Tech can roll out of bed and peel off. You know, like there's, there's a little bit of this that does sort of check out in terms of Cincinnati might not be getting that much blowback because college football public at large just thinks $1 million isn't a lot for Texas Tech to be able to help Brandon Soares be covered. And the reason why Brendan Sorsby is at Texas Tech, in addition to whatever his relationship status may be with anyone on the volleyball team, really does come down to Texas Tech being one of the highest bidders for one of the top quarterbacks in the portal.
- [26:03]
Danny Kanell
Am I, am I wrong there?
- [26:05]
Bud Elliott
No, no. I, I, I. Especially with the BNN Conference.
- [26:09]
Chip Patterson
Yeah, you gotta, you gotta be able to draw some lines somewhere. So we'll see if anything does end up coming of that. Like Bud said, a lot of people within the industry just sort of, just each one of these cases setting a little bit of precedent in a time where there are very, very murky rules and sort of standards for how some of these transfers and how some of these contracts are dealt with.
- [26:33]
Bud Elliott
Last thing, in doing the list, like Chip, you mentioned you went to 30. I was as well. There's so many teams that I feel like at least either field good, really good, or you can at least kind of dream on their QB situation. She was like, all right. I could really see that working. You know, there's not a lot of programs like, oh, God, that's, that's not it.
- [26:53]
Chip Patterson
There. There are talented players in interesting situations.
- [26:57]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah.
- [26:58]
Chip Patterson
Where I do think there's questions to be answered before I'm throwing all my weight behind them. 10 toes down. We'll see.
- [27:05]
Bud Elliott
Exactly.
- [27:06]
Chip Patterson
Hey, Byron Brown at Auburn, right?
- [27:11]
Bud Elliott
Yeah.
- [27:12]
Chip Patterson
Whoa. What's our mean median deviation, Bud? Like, like, like, how are, what are our tail outcomes of the Byron Brown Auburn offense? I mean, I completely go either way on that one.
- [27:22]
Bud Elliott
Yeah. I mean, I, I, like, I've seen him a lot at usf. I mean, hell, everybody's got tv. They've all seen him.
- [27:27]
Tom Fornelli
Right.
- [27:28]
Bud Elliott
I think he's got some ability, you know, and, and some, some limitations as well, obviously. Like, it would he have already been P5 last year if he wasn't coming off the injury? You know, maybe in that offense you can put up a lot of points, obviously.
- [27:43]
Chip Patterson
Yep. Will be very interesting to continue to track the conversation. Thanks to everybody for weighing in on that. Coming up on the other side, NFL draft combine getting underway today in Indianapolis. As connoisseurs of college football, we're going to weigh in with players that we're excited to see now, maybe how some of our opinions of these players are going to get tested by the NFL draft analysts. We're going to take a look at Tom's latest mock draft and more nukes.
- [28:14]
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- [30:13]
Chip Patterson
Sometimes during the ad breaks, it is a chance to check in on the tailgate. You know I'm trying to be an active listener. I'm trying to you know, stay dialed in. And I did. I did not realize. We're just. We're going ham on. On. Danny, was it Kitty Hawk. Danny was at grassy knoll. Danny, would you say the razor is one of the best inventions? Danny was at the trail of tears. And. And Danny, did you cry when they announced the attack on Pearl harbor on the radio? Listen, just because he threw the first forward pass and was right. First shotgun formation ever. Goodness gracious. All right, so we did. We opened the show with some of Danny's memories of the NFL draft combine process. Obviously, things have shifted a lot. Among the most notable changes that really stand out to me is we got a lot of guys that aren't doing anything. Some guys aren't doing anything. A lot of guys not necessarily going through the entire process. I'm not going to get on a soapbox here. It's not my box to stand on, but a lot of micromanaging from these teams, these representatives, you know, just trying to like, carefully craft your draft stock. So let's. Let's start with the stuff we are excited about. Tom, I know you love the golden dumbbells. You look, you know, we like to give out some awards at the end of a draft combine process. Tom, why don't you get us started? Let's start with players were excited to see how they perform. We watched them on the field. Now they're going to get tested. They're going to have some numbers beside their name. Who do you think is going to end up really backing up some of what your eyes saw in college football?
- [31:46]
Tom Fornelli
I mean, I'm happy that Jeremiah Love is running the 40. That tends to mean he feels like he's going to do pretty damn well in it because a lot of the guys at the top of the board don't typically do it unless they feel like they have to prove something. But I think that that should be fun because I would like to actually put a number to it. There's a lot of stuff that I'm with the top guys. I'm excited to watch them. But for me, like, there's more with the under the radar guys, I guess, like guys that I have kind of on my board, but I don't really. I. I just want to see them in this kind of environment just to see how they perform compared to others. Because it's like when I watch them on tape, I feel like they're pretty good and it's like I want to see how they do as far as the competitions, but just the stuff to watch. Jeremiah love running the 40. I'd like to see what his time is. Does Carson Beck throw? We know Fernando Mendoza is not throwing. He's doing it because he's saying he wants to, you know, get the spotlight on his guys at the Indiana pro day to make sure that the. All the scouts come to have to watch Indiana, which. Cool. You know, that's. That's definitely 99 yards with the boys move. I want to see, and this is somewhat mean, I want to see Kaden Proctor going through all the drills because I want to see how tired he gets. That's my one thing on him. Like last year, watching the tape, he looked tired a lot. And I want to see him going through those drills to see how heavy he's breathing. I want to see how that's going to impact his stock. But a lot of. Mostly it's guys that are under the radar. But one. One name, I will point out, that's a big name that I think could start a conversation that we've had for years. But this feels like the perfect kind of setting for him. Harold Perkins. I want to see how Harold Perkins tests in all these combine drills and how high he starts skyrocketing up some boards. And then we'll all just sit there, like, nodding quietly to ourselves, like, well, where are you gonna put them? How are you gonna use them? We need to figure that out because. But I will say, at the NFL level, they have done, like, with the defense that Mike McDonald. And although that tree is now bringing in, I feel like Harold Perkins might have a place at the. At the NFL level that maybe he didn't have in college, but I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see the conversations around him.
- [33:53]
Bud Elliott
Yeah. Like, I. I kind of think Perkins should have gone to Texas Tech for, like, a little over a million just to be like a pure, you know, detached speed rusher type in that defense. But if he kills the. If he kills the combine stuff, somebody's gonna, like, they'll. They'll look at Micah Parsons, and he's not that dude.
- [34:11]
Chip Patterson
Right?
- [34:12]
Bud Elliott
Like, as far, like, Parsons, speed to power stuff is just insane. But, yeah, I'm really excited to see that. I. I think on Proctor, I want to see him in the reactionary stuff. I think, like, when he knows what he's doing, he is really a special athlete.
- [34:26]
Chip Patterson
But I don't know that.
- [34:26]
Bud Elliott
It's like, reaction stuff is the best. You know what I mean? And that's, like, at this level, everybody's pretty athletic relative to size. Like, that that can kind of separate you some.
- [34:40]
Chip Patterson
Is that what gets Proctor on the field the moment he sets foot in college football? But then the fact that he's built like.
- [34:48]
Bud Elliott
Like the heavyweight champion of the world. Yeah, right, right, right.
- [34:50]
Tom Fornelli
And that's what I'm saying. On the earth, pretty much.
- [34:52]
Bud Elliott
Yeah. The box jumps he does and stuff, and. And he's probably going to do some drills that totally kill the combine.
- [35:02]
Tom Fornelli
Like, I would say freshman year, Caden, it was a little soft sometimes. I would say the last couple years, he. That's been eliminated, but he's been. He just gets gassed out. From what I can tell, he looks hard. He looks lazy at times. When he gets beat, he looks like he's reaching instead of, you know, going and being the aggressor. I. That's my one thing with him, conditioning. Because he is like, he's. He's an athletic freak and he's huge. But I do wonder if he'd be better served to maybe lose some of that weight.
- [35:28]
Chip Patterson
Interesting.
- [35:28]
Bud Elliott
I agree. Another guy who's. Who's big. Banks from Florida. Yeah, like, his good is really, really good. And I want to see, like, that. That's a guy, I think, who could. Could kind of rock it up the charts a little bit.
- [35:42]
Danny Kanell
You had him in your mock, right, Tom? Yeah, I had first rounders.
- [35:45]
Tom Fornelli
I had him as like the first DT off the board simply because I think of the ceiling he has. There's not a lot of dts in this class that I feel like are excellent pass rush guys. And I feel like Banks has the highest ability to be that because, like, Bud mentioned, like, when he's really playing well, like, his flashes are like eye popping, like, holy crap kind of stuff. It's just. It's inconsistent. So you need to see that kind of effort on a down to down basis. And he was banged up last year, so obviously he missed time, and that certainly played a role in it. But even going back to the year before, there's just. There's some snaps where he just feels invisible.
- [36:16]
Danny Kanell
I mean, and the thing.
- [36:17]
Bud Elliott
He just hasn't played a lot of snaps, like, with the injury. I was listening to some podcasts on. On the drive home from the. The baseball game I took the boys to, and I think they were saying he played like 800 career snaps or something like that in five years of college football. That's like crazy low even for a dt or maybe lower than that. I just remember thinking, oh, that. That is odd. Is Bane gonna measure?
- [36:45]
Tom Fornelli
I mean, I think he will. It's. It's going to be. It's really going to come down to like what that front office values. Like, if it's a. If it's a very heavy analytical front office that is going to see like the arms and be like, well, we. The measurables just don't work for us this early in the draft. We can't do it. Then he's not going to go. But there's going to also be a team that's just going to watch the dude play football and not give a damn.
- [37:09]
Bud Elliott
Yeah. I just think you're getting Melvin Ingram, which.
- [37:14]
Danny Kanell
Which is great.
- [37:15]
Tom Fornelli
I'll take it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [37:17]
Bud Elliott
But he's got to be the right fit in your system.
- [37:19]
Chip Patterson
Yeah, I saw his. I think it was his interview this morning. Why should he be one of the first defensive linemen taken? Did you see it too?
- [37:30]
Danny Kanell
I love football. That one where he's like, I just
- [37:32]
Chip Patterson
want to play because I'm a monster.
- [37:33]
Danny Kanell
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go.
- [37:37]
Bud Elliott
And he should want to go to a team that understands what he is and what he is not as well.
- [37:42]
Chip Patterson
Sure.
- [37:43]
Bud Elliott
Yeah.
- [37:44]
Chip Patterson
Danny, what names are you excited to see and. And definitely tuning in for over the next couple days?
- [37:50]
Danny Kanell
I mean, the QBs, obviously, because there's a big void between Mendoza. I think there's a pretty big gap between him and Ty Simpson. And then there's a really big gap. And who steps in to feel that Cole Payton from North Dakota State is somebody who's gained a lot of steam. Curious to see what he does in his testing. Carson Beck. Curious to see if he does throw because I do think he was impacted by the off season surgery. You know, if you talk to some of their coaches, wasn't really feeling full strength till late in the year and might have even impacted him the whole way. Taylor Green, like, size off the charts. He's somebody, I think just raw talent that these scouts could really fall in love with. So QBs I got my eyes on. I don't. Is Ty Simpson throwing?
- [38:34]
Tom Fornelli
I don't.
- [38:35]
Danny Kanell
At the combine. I don't know if he is either. I think he should. Like, I want to see all these guys throw like Carson Beck. Unless, you know, if he's still bothered by it, wants to play in a clean environment. I get it. But you think you by this time you would really hope that you're ready to go. And I could see him impressing in a workout.
- [38:52]
Tom Fornelli
The number one indicator that a quarterback class is not great at the draft is when the FCS guy suddenly just like, have you seen this Guy, he doesn't suck. He might be good.
- [39:03]
Chip Patterson
Well, I mean, I think if at like the Senior bowl stuff wasn't. I mean, it was Peyton or Diego. Right. Because you didn't have like Beck was playing or, you know, all the way through the. The end of the playoff. Simpson didn't do any of that. Right. Just for health reasons. Especially after taking that hit in the Rose Bowl. What. When you say you want to see Ty Simpson throw. What. What would you want to see in a controlled environment from Ty Simpson getting out there?
- [39:28]
Danny Kanell
Top tier. Like, what is the overall deep ball strength? What is his miles per hour? Because I think that's his limitations are he doesn't have the biggest arm in the world. So I would kind of see him be able to showcase the bigger arm throws. That's the question.
- [39:44]
Chip Patterson
The couple, couple questions here that are. We'll start with the more relevant one. Zach says who is going to run the fastest 41 of the great. One of the pieces of this that I think a lot of football fans can just get down to is the. The oldest, like the oldest athletic challenge known to man. Line them up. Let's go run who's fastest. So who do we think is going to be? Who. Who are going to be the players that really flash with fast 40 times?
- [40:15]
Tom Fornelli
Zach Branch.
- [40:16]
Bud Elliott
Zach.
- [40:16]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah. That would be my guess for receivers anyway.
- [40:20]
Chip Patterson
Arian Brown, the Kentucky, lsu.
- [40:25]
Bud Elliott
He can scoot. Yeah, I think him, Dion Burks, I think he's more quick than fast.
- [40:34]
Danny Kanell
But I. Jeremiah love if he's right. I mean, again, I think.
- [40:39]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah, I don't think Jeremiah is going to be in like that 4:2 range, though. I think he's probably going to be closer to like a 4 4, which, you know, these days. God, you got a piano on your back, son. Come on, pick up the pace. But like, I, I think you'll see some receivers closer to the 4:2, whereas Jeremiah's probably gonna be like 4:4.
- [40:55]
Chip Patterson
Brennan Thompson from Mississippi State getting some attention in the tailgate. I could see it.
- [41:02]
Danny Kanell
I'm looking at guys with track backgrounds. D' Angelo Pons, they said he could run in the 4:3 potentially. You know, that could have scouts salivating over him.
- [41:13]
Tom Fornelli
That would be very. Because, I mean, he's not. When it comes to the other measurements. He's not going to be lighting up a lot of boards.
- [41:18]
Chip Patterson
But has he been officially measured? I think he was 59 on Indiana's roster. Is he a real 5 9?
- [41:23]
Tom Fornelli
We'll find out. I mean, I love the player, but he is not a Big boy, let's see.
- [41:31]
Chip Patterson
I was trying to think much about
- [41:34]
Danny Kanell
because I'm looking at some of these articles and I do see a lot of people reference miles per hour. Like I think they're more using the in game speed now. I mean the 40, you want to see confirmation like a guy's fast. But I don't think they get fooled as much by the guy that blazes in the 40 because he was a track guy and has great form and knows how to run straight line, get off. I think they're using more of some of the analytic stuff.
- [41:57]
Tom Fornelli
Well, the sports bras that they wear while they're playing.
- [41:59]
Danny Kanell
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:00]
Bud Elliott
So Bain did measure. So he has a 30 and 78 inch arm which is not spectacular. Some of the lowest on record for a D end. Melvin Ingram had a 31 and a half.
- [42:15]
Chip Patterson
So shorter than, shorter than Melvin Ingram.
- [42:19]
Bud Elliott
He does have a longer wing because he's wide.
- [42:23]
Tom Fornelli
He's got very wide shoulders. Yeah.
- [42:25]
Bud Elliott
So 662-60222. 63 at the combine, Melvin Ingram was six one and a half, 264. So they're a pound apart hand. Nine and an eighth hand for Bane. Nine and five eighths for. For Ingram.
- [42:41]
Chip Patterson
Hey, call him a T Rex if you want that T Rex going eight.
- [42:43]
Bud Elliott
Yeah, I just look at the guys.
- [42:45]
Danny Kanell
You're gonna overthink this. Somebody's gonna screw this up.
- [42:47]
Bud Elliott
Yeah. Like you look at the dudes who had arms shorter than 32 at the combine, who played the end. I mean the list is awful. Like it's Camele Correa, Romeo McKnight, Carl Lawson, Jamie Blacknick, Marcus Golden, Elijah Ponder, Wyatt Hubert out of Kansas State, Dean Lowry, Cheetah Ozugu, Ricky Elmore, Tyree Johnson and Nate Williams.
- [43:14]
Tom Fornelli
It's a hell of a list. Yeah.
- [43:17]
Bud Elliott
I would still pick him.
- [43:21]
Chip Patterson
Would absolutely still pick them. Two questions that came in before the show got started. They're a little bit fun.
- [43:27]
Bud Elliott
Cash's howl, by the way, Ryan points out in the chat, is shorter. And I, I do think if you watch him like, I think you got to use him like particularly as well, but he can cover, so.
- [43:41]
Chip Patterson
Oh, okay. I see what you're saying.
- [43:42]
Bud Elliott
But I do think he gets swallowed up by big tackles.
- [43:45]
Chip Patterson
I think that he had a great run in Texas A M season. I do not off the top of my head, I don't have his game log pulled up. I do not remember him being as much of a jump off the screen game wrecking superstar in the last four games. Does that make sense?
- [44:04]
Bud Elliott
Yeah.
- [44:04]
Chip Patterson
Like he like, there was a run there. We're like, oh, my gosh. This guy's the one of the best players in the sec.
- [44:09]
Bud Elliott
Like Texas and Miami blocked him pretty well.
- [44:13]
Chip Patterson
There you go.
- [44:14]
Danny Kanell
All right.
- [44:14]
Chip Patterson
Who would win a cover 340 yard dash?
- [44:18]
Tom Fornelli
Not me.
- [44:19]
Bud Elliott
Probably DK. He played in the NFL.
- [44:22]
Danny Kanell
Let's go. The old guy. All these old jokes and I still got it, baby.
- [44:27]
Bud Elliott
He runs.
- [44:28]
Tom Fornelli
Do you.
- [44:28]
Bud Elliott
Do you do like, sprint training as well this morning?
- [44:31]
Danny Kanell
A little fit. 45.
- [44:33]
Bud Elliott
Let's go.
- [44:33]
Danny Kanell
Jumping around. I think, Bud, that'd be an interesting race. I think it would come down to me and Bud. The Florida State.
- [44:39]
Bud Elliott
I'm not that fast.
- [44:43]
Chip Patterson
I'm better at the hundred forty. Is not good. It takes me a while to get to top speed.
- [44:47]
Danny Kanell
That's who would win the 225. Tommy putting up any weights or would that be Bud? Bud still gets.
- [44:53]
Tom Fornelli
Bud would beat me, I think. Pretty sure, but beat me up.
- [44:56]
Bud Elliott
If it's a good shoulder day, I think I got Tom. If it's not, I'm just like, ah, I. I ain't playing this.
- [45:00]
Chip Patterson
That's. That's your surgically repaired shoulder, right?
- [45:03]
Danny Kanell
Yeah.
- [45:03]
Bud Elliott
Yeah.
- [45:05]
Chip Patterson
And then this. This one backed it up.
- [45:06]
Bud Elliott
I got 275 on incline the other day for a couple reps.
- [45:10]
Danny Kanell
Impressive.
- [45:11]
Chip Patterson
All right. What do you think your 40 time would be if you had to run it today?
- [45:16]
Tom Fornelli
4 or 545 seconds.
- [45:21]
Bud Elliott
Just for comparison. Like, because we're out there at these events, right? The kids who are like, makes you worry for their long term health. Obese. Okay. Like, like your guys who are like 370at, you know, 16 years old. And I mean, let's just for. Let's stipulate that's not a good 370 or not a good 350, which. It's almost hard to have a good 350 at 16 at age.
- [45:47]
Chip Patterson
Yeah.
- [45:48]
Bud Elliott
Those guys are running like six and a quarter, you know.
- [45:53]
Chip Patterson
Really?
- [45:54]
Bud Elliott
Yeah. Because the start. The start's bad because they don't bend. And also their top speed sucks too.
- [46:01]
Danny Kanell
So
- [46:04]
Bud Elliott
I think all of us would crack six.
- [46:06]
Chip Patterson
I was thinking I could maybe. I was like five, eight, five, six.
- [46:09]
Bud Elliott
I would be shocked if anybody's like, below five and a quarter.
- [46:12]
Tom Fornelli
Yes. If I got five and a half, I would be absolutely three Thrilled.
- [46:15]
Bud Elliott
Yeah.
- [46:16]
Danny Kanell
What did Brady run? Five, three. Did he remember his historically bad, ugly combine performance? I think it was a five. Three. I think it was that bad.
- [46:27]
Tom Fornelli
I don't think I could beat Tom.
- [46:30]
Danny Kanell
He probably.
- [46:31]
Chip Patterson
Tom Brady.
- [46:32]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah. Yeah. I thought you were putting.
- [46:35]
Chip Patterson
I Thought you put Brady Quinn on blast. Yeah, Brady is a good athlete still, you know.
- [46:42]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah.
- [46:43]
Bud Elliott
I bet you I'd run like 5, 8 it. Those guys are so much faster than people realize. Especially, like, if it's. If it's on a combine, like laser to laser start. So you're not getting the hand thing.
- [46:53]
Danny Kanell
That's why I did not run at the combine. I wanted to throw. I was like, I'll throw, but I am not running. Like, what did they got for my Pro Day? 478. At the Pro Day, though, followed up
- [47:04]
Chip Patterson
by a 4, 8, 2 and Danny Canal. That was with the new sundial technology to record.
- [47:14]
Danny Kanell
That was wind aided as well.
- [47:17]
Chip Patterson
Hold on. You. You did it like a guy.
- [47:19]
Danny Kanell
I was so fired up. I felt like I was gonna be like. Because I was just hoping to break five. Like, I just wanted something with a four and to run a four, eight. I was like, oh, this is great.
- [47:27]
Bud Elliott
And I wonder.
- [47:28]
Danny Kanell
Still dropped.
- [47:30]
Bud Elliott
You think there's anybody in media who's not, like, really recently retired who could still crack five?
- [47:35]
Danny Kanell
Do you remember Joey Galloway was like, yeah, he was running four, five, maybe four, four. Like, at 45, he's still somebody. He does sprints.
- [47:45]
Bud Elliott
What does rich Eisen run?
- [47:46]
Tom Fornelli
5?
- [47:47]
Danny Kanell
It's a good question.
- [47:49]
Bud Elliott
That's probably who we need to comp this to. Like, could you beat Rich Eisen?
- [47:52]
Tom Fornelli
Yes.
- [47:53]
Danny Kanell
He does suit, too.
- [47:55]
Chip Patterson
I think he got like. I think he did break six, but maybe at like a five, nine, something.
- [48:00]
Bud Elliott
Oh, five, nine, four. Okay. Yeah, so I. I think. I think five, eight, five, seven, five. Like, you're a half second behind. You know, the five and a quarter guys.
- [48:10]
Chip Patterson
Ooh, Damien. Yeah, I bet Damien like, of like, if we extend the universe.
- [48:16]
Danny Kanell
Although he's. I don't want to put my guy on blast. You know, he does say he's like, I ain't working out. I mean, he likes to cook, he likes to make, you know.
- [48:27]
Bud Elliott
Could you still run sub 5?
- [48:30]
Danny Kanell
You texted him? I was gonna text him too.
- [48:32]
Bud Elliott
Yeah. All right, so bmac and. And Damien.
- [48:35]
Danny Kanell
Damien, bmac still got it, I think.
- [48:38]
Tom Fornelli
B. Get it easy. Yeah, we.
- [48:41]
Bud Elliott
This should be a thing.
- [48:44]
Chip Patterson
40 yard dash.
- [48:45]
Bud Elliott
I bet you Roddy Jones is still pretty quick.
- [48:48]
Tom Fornelli
Noah.
- [48:49]
Chip Patterson
Hey, Noah. Noah's ears running right now. Noah, get BAC and Damian to race each other. That is. That is NFL draft combine content right there.
- [48:59]
Bud Elliott
RG3 probably still really fast, actually. I would think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [49:06]
Chip Patterson
Isn't Dame's youngest still under one?
- [49:10]
Danny Kanell
Yeah, like two, I think. Yeah. He's very young.
- [49:12]
Chip Patterson
Different lifestyle and he just had the
- [49:15]
Danny Kanell
second, so it's like, yeah, a lot
- [49:17]
Chip Patterson
of just sitting around.
- [49:19]
Bud Elliott
He did run track in high school. I'm pretty sure, though.
- [49:22]
Chip Patterson
Yeah, but Dame always talks about. Never mind. We don't need to put his injury history on blast either. Both of them would beat me. Let me just say very clearly, both. Both of our CBS Sports college football colleagues Damien Harris and Brian McFadd would smoke me in this.
- [49:38]
Bud Elliott
Anybody in the chat. Like, could anybody in the tailgate run sub five?
- [49:42]
Tom Fornelli
No.
- [49:44]
Chip Patterson
Well, Moneyline Matier doesn't always comment, but I know that John Matier is a big fan of the show. And so I think. I think John Matier could get it,
- [49:53]
Bud Elliott
especially the Thursday episode, especially the last episodes. All right, Sonny Styles, nice measurements there.
- [50:01]
Chip Patterson
Coming up on the other side, more NFL drift Combine expectations and we take a look at Tom's latest mock draft and more.
- [50:13]
Bud Elliott
Parle tu francais Hablas espanol. Parle italiano.
- [50:17]
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- [50:43]
Tom Fornelli
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- [51:17]
Bud Elliott
Danny, they're doing you wrong in the chat, man. They're saying Desmond Watson would beat you in a 40.
- [51:21]
Danny Kanell
Wow.
- [51:22]
Bud Elliott
I'm like, they're making this dude walk around the field to lose weight.
- [51:25]
Danny Kanell
I'm pretty sure.
- [51:26]
Bud Elliott
Like, not jog walk. No, no, no, big man.
- [51:31]
Tom Fornelli
We don't need you to just move a little bit.
- [51:35]
Chip Patterson
It's gracious. All right, Tom, let's. Let's take a look at your latest mock draft. I know that it is up@cbssports.com When's your next update?
- [51:47]
Tom Fornelli
Do my next mock will run Wednesday next week.
- [51:52]
Chip Patterson
Nice. All right, so let's, we got Mikey on the commands right here. Tom, I'll let you, you talk us through what we got and then Bud dk, we'll jump in if, if you see something that stands out to you and we can, we can dive a little deeper.
- [52:06]
Tom Fornelli
Well, first of all, for, for more in depth analysis, Danny and I did an entire hour on HQ over this mock draft. You can find that on the CBS Sports YouTube page if you want to go watch it. But yeah, I've got Fernando Mendoza going first overall to the Raiders. I think that makes a ton of sense. Arvel Reese second overall to the jets because there's no other quarterback worth taking. I'm a little different, I think than the consensus. My first OT on my board right now is Spencer Fino at Utah. I've got him going three to Arizona, followed by our man Reuben Bain, who again, I think you just watch the tape and worry about the measurables later. He's a football player and I think he's the best edge rusher in this class. Francis Malinoa is fifth to the Giants, who I have below Fino, but the gap between them not exactly wide. And then my top receiver in the class is Makai Lemon. So I've got him going six to the Browns, followed by David Bailey, who may be the role that Harold Birkin should have taken this year, going to Washington at 7. And then my guy Jeremiah Love, who I was telling you last year was better than Ashton Gente. He is still better than Ashton Jenty and he will be better in the NFL than Ashton Genti was going eight to New Orleans. He is going to just step right in and replace Alvin Kamara. Cardell Tate going nine to the Kansas City Chiefs. I just, it's, it's so weird. Like I, I think Carnell is a very smooth player. I am a little surprised that a lot of people seem to have going in the top 10, including me, but that some of that's based off what we're seeing and some of this fact that I just don't think it's an incredible wide receiver class and that's not a knock on Carnell. It's just I don't know if I would have ever watched him at Ohio State and said that's a top 10 pick, but he's probably going to be a top 10 pick.
- [53:39]
Chip Patterson
I mean, wasn't JSN at the exact same spot, basically.
- [53:43]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah.
- [53:43]
Chip Patterson
7, 8, 9.
- [53:45]
Tom Fornelli
I was.
- [53:45]
Bud Elliott
I think JSN was more athletic, but.
- [53:47]
Chip Patterson
Right. But I'm saying that it speaks to the class. Yeah.
- [53:50]
Bud Elliott
Right.
- [53:51]
Chip Patterson
Where the draft is at, that those two players in college, we would have thought that they had a wildly different stock in terms of the NFL draft, but you're ultimately going to be measured by who else is in. In the pool. And in the player pool, Tate is able to get a little bit higher.
- [54:08]
Bud Elliott
It's interesting if you tell me that Carnell Tate is like a really good two in the NFL and plays for a decade, I'd buy that all day. Yeah. Yeah. Like, so is that worth a number nine draft pick? I think so. Like, you get. You get 10 years out of a guy who's like a good two in this year's draft. Yeah.
- [54:25]
Tom Fornelli
At 10, I have Caleb Downs, who's one of my two favorite players in the class, but the other one's a running back. He's a safety. Those positions are just treated differently in drafts than they used to be. Number 11, my top corner, Mansour Delane going to Miami, followed by Sonny Styles, whose measurements we just saw at 12, going to Dallas. And now this is one that I would definitely not have if I were to do it. J. McCoy, who missed last year with an ACL injury, is not going to be doing any of the drills at the combine. To me, that is not a very good sign. So I'm going to guess he's going to be falling down some boards here. The medicals might not be great at the moment. Then the guy we talked about mentioned earlier, my first DT off the board, Caleb Banks going to Baltimore, and then 16, George Kittle. I mean, Kenyon Siddiq going to Tampa Bay. 18. Oh, wait, no, we're on 16. Sorry, I got my numbers mixed up. This is the name Danny wouldn't say on tv. Him and Jordan just did an incredible job of getting around me.
- [55:19]
Danny Kanell
Under the bus, though. She's supposed to be the first 15
- [55:22]
Tom Fornelli
picks of the draft. Jordan would tell us to play her and then go to one of us to be like, to say it. And this time, Jordan's just like. She didn't even bother trying to say. She's like, Danny, who we got going to the Vikings here anyway? Olavavega Ione. I have him going to Minnesota in a mock trade. Minnesota jumps up in front of Detroit because they.
- [55:40]
Chip Patterson
Well, Jordan, it was a crazy year at Penn. And, you know, you look along the offensive line and this guy just stood out along the Stud.
- [55:48]
Danny Kanell
This guy, why'd you have him there?
- [55:52]
Tom Fornelli
Cassius Jordan. You.
- [55:54]
Chip Patterson
You're doing UFC fighters now. You got.
- [55:57]
Tom Fornelli
You need to catch up on your vowels in. In a lot of these poly names. Cassius Howell going to the Lions. Just a bookend for Aiden Hutchinson. Jordan, Tyson with the jets second pick. They don't have a quarterback yet, but they get another receiver. Casey Concepcion going to Carolina. Keldrick Falk, the edge rush from Auburn. I have him going to Dallas. They. I don't know if you heard they traded Micah Parsons last year. They don't really have a great pass rush that need to find somebody to fill it up. And then here's the one where I knew I'd probably get some pushback. Ty Simpson going at 21 to the Steelers. There's going to be a second quarterback taken in the first round. Probably going to be Ty Simpson. And the Steelers make a ton of sense. Mike McCarthy has done a very good job of developing young quarterbacks over these times, so it seems like a good situation. Next I've got Peter woods going to the Chargers.
- [56:47]
Chip Patterson
Somebody who's gonna be interesting.
- [56:49]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah, he was a top 10 pick in a lot of the way too early mocks. Then in the off season, I, I get it. I, I understand why people are so high on him. I'm. I am not as high as the industry consensus. I think he's. I mean, I still have him going in the first round. It's not like I think he sucks. It's just I, I feel like for somebody as talented as he is and as athletically gifted as he is, I would, I would like to see a lot more consistent production. Avian Terrell I've got going to the Eagles. A.J. terrell's little brother. Clemson just does a really good job of producing corners. It's like every single year they've got a first round corner on that team. I think that's another one. Kaden Proctor, guy I've gone to the Browns. We've talked a lot about him already. I've got at safety for the Bears, Emanuel McNeil. Warren, a Toledo player. It's one of those things when you're watching mat games or smaller conference games. Like another player I'm interested in watching at the combine this week is San Diego State corner Chris Johnson. You watch these G5, G6 games and there's always like that one guy who's just kind of standing out and you're just like, he looks a little bit different, a little bit quicker than everybody else out there, a little bit bigger. That's Emmanuel McNeil Warren at Toledo.
- [57:53]
Chip Patterson
That.
- [57:54]
Tom Fornelli
That's an NFL player. Next going to Buffalo, C.J. allen. They need somebody to help with their run defense. So why not bring Georgia's defensive coordinator in according to C.J.
- [58:03]
Chip Patterson
all right. Thank you for saying that. I didn't want to interrupt your flow, but I. Are we believe in that.
- [58:11]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah.
- [58:12]
Danny Kanell
I mean, you could.
- [58:13]
Tom Fornelli
If you trust your linebacker to make the calls, let him make the calls.
- [58:17]
Chip Patterson
And for those who aren't aware, was
- [58:18]
Bud Elliott
he the green dot guy?
- [58:19]
Danny Kanell
Yeah. Yeah.
- [58:21]
Bud Elliott
So somebody's calling into him. Right. Or is he saying.
- [58:23]
Tom Fornelli
He said during the combine this week that Glenn Schumann would let him make the calls. I don't think he was doing it exclusively, but I think there were plenty of like up tempo such situations where he was allowed to make the calls.
- [58:36]
Bud Elliott
Sure.
- [58:36]
Chip Patterson
I mean think, think about the Ole Miss game. Right. I mean think about how many times that that would have been it better for the defense for. If you trust him out there. I mean, what up. What a luxury. Fear Glenn Schumann. Be trusting. You know, like one of the best linebackers in the country out there. But yeah, the he. For those who aren't aware. Yeah. He said that SHU gave him the, the full. The full go in a lot of those situations to be making the calls.
- [59:02]
Tom Fornelli
There is a new coaching staff in Buffalo, so CJ can double as the defensive coordinator.
- [59:07]
Chip Patterson
Perfect.
- [59:09]
Bud Elliott
So I. We got some answers from Damien. Could you still run sub 5? And he sent me a voice note which I can't play on the air because the first word is something we can't say on this show. And it ends with no. Yeah, okay. I said, all right, second question. Could you beat bmac? And he said, no question. So I'm saying this, this is
- [59:34]
Tom Fornelli
Noah.
- [59:36]
Danny Kanell
Noah. Yeah.
- [59:39]
Tom Fornelli
So you'll have to find 40. I mean, there's plenty of space in that. If we're in Vegas again, I don't know where we're going to be.
- [59:44]
Bud Elliott
I've been running one of those hallways. It's a mess.
- [59:46]
Tom Fornelli
That's what I'm saying. There's plenty of space. Yeah. But if we're in India again, we could just literally have them do it on the same fields.
- [59:51]
Chip Patterson
Yeah.
- [59:52]
Danny Kanell
We still don't know where it is.
- [59:54]
Chip Patterson
I don't think so.
- [59:55]
Bud Elliott
Come on.
- [59:56]
Danny Kanell
Vegas.
- [59:57]
Bud Elliott
Vegas.
- [59:57]
Danny Kanell
Well, the coaches did not love that.
- [59:59]
Chip Patterson
No.
- [60:00]
Danny Kanell
So that.
- [60:01]
Bud Elliott
Some of them did.
- [60:02]
Chip Patterson
No, that. Yeah. I'm out here with. I'm out here with my college buddies. We're playing golf.
- [60:10]
Bud Elliott
Yeah.
- [60:11]
Chip Patterson
Hell yeah. I'm gonna go and jump in a Fighter plane.
- [60:13]
Tom Fornelli
You know, PJ seemed to be happy about it. Brett seemed to be happy about it.
- [60:21]
Chip Patterson
Illinois did a good job with it.
- [60:23]
Danny Kanell
I was thrilled with it.
- [60:26]
Tom Fornelli
I think.
- [60:26]
Chip Patterson
I think that that to me seems like throwing the west coast schools a bone. And now it'll drift back east. Now, whether it's a Chicago or an Indianapolis or, like, where we'll see.
- [60:37]
Danny Kanell
It would be fun.
- [60:38]
Bud Elliott
Chicago would be good.
- [60:39]
Tom Fornelli
Stuart in Hammond, Indiana. Let's see.
- [60:43]
Chip Patterson
All right, back to Tom's Backdraft. We'll finish it out.
- [60:46]
Tom Fornelli
Sorry, Denzel. Boston is up, gone next to San Francisco. I wrote about it in the mock and I've said it. He just. I've watched him at Washington and I've said that's a guy who would look really good in a Kyle Shanahan offense. So I'm literally just putting him in Kyle Shanahan's offense. The second Utah tackle to go in the first round. I've got Caleb Loma going to the Texans, who definitely need to address their offensive line. I also have Georgia tackle Monroe Freeling going next to the Rams. The least experienced guy, I think, of the ones that are at the top of the board. But there's a lot there as far as his measurements and, you know, the tape is good, too. But there's a lot to dream on with. Feeling like he can be better than you'd think he is at this point. One of my guys, I don't think he'll be a first round pick because I just don't think he brings enough as a pass rusher. But I wanted to get him in there and it's something that I felt like Denver could use Lee Hunter. Just that there's your run defense right there. That'll take care of the A gaps for the most part. You can figure it out from that point. I. I just really enjoy watching him. Another one people are going to call me a homer for. But gay back is to the Patriots coming off the edge with the 31st pick. I've watched Gabe for four years at Illinois and I've said it. The player he reminds me the most of is Mike Rub. So Mike Rabel drafts him. Makes sense. And then finally, last pick, the first down, another Garden, Manuel Bragnon from Oregon going to Seattle, who I think, you know, could just probably look to add a little more depth to their offensive line. Like there's not a huge need on that team right now, but you cannot never afford to have enough offensive lineman.
- [62:10]
Bud Elliott
No. Ty Simpson. Sorry, I was reading Damien's text.
- [62:15]
Chip Patterson
Apologies, Danny. Eddie, what Other highlights stood out from, from Yalls breakdown yesterday and check it out on The CBS Sports YouTube page, of course.
- [62:24]
Danny Kanell
Overall, what do you think the strongest positions are? Offensive line, edge, rusher. I think receiver.
- [62:35]
Chip Patterson
I don't think there's a lot of
- [62:36]
Tom Fornelli
elite talent in this draft anyway. I think that I would say the deepest position is offensive tackle. I don't think that there is a hall of fame kind of talent in the class, but I think there's a lot of guys who are going to be good NFL tackles for you. They might. More of them might end up on the right than the left, but I think it's very deep at tackle. I think it's deep along the defensive line as well. I don't love the wide receiver class. I definitely do not like the quarterback class. The running backs I think are pretty good. But running backs in the draft, they just. Nobody cares at this point. Like, you know, it's. There's the one guy who might go in the first round, we might get a second guy going in the first round. But for the most part those are always going to be your second, third day picks and there's going to be plenty of good ones. Corners I think are fine. Safeties I think are fine. Linebackers I think are good. So it's offensive line, defensive line, and probably linebackers would be my top three.
- [63:28]
Chip Patterson
It's interesting though because I, I agree with you on the wide receivers, but still there's. Is that positional need why they're still going to end up being four or five wide receivers in the first round. I don't, it's like there's a, there's like a tier of pretty good. You know, that's the thing.
- [63:44]
Tom Fornelli
Like the way I, I look at this class, there's like guys going in the top half of the first round would typically be second half of the first round, early second rounders and just it goes that way all the way down. We're like, you're gonna have guys going a little earlier than maybe they would have in other years. Like just looking at the quarterbacks. I like Fernando Mendoza a lot. He would not have been my number one quarterback in last year's class. He might not even have been number two. So it's. Yeah, it's. It's that kind of draft. A lot of the guys that are going to go first at their position this year might have been third or fourth at the position last year.
- [64:17]
Bud Elliott
I like Sadiq to the Bucks. I know all my Bucks buddies really want to pass rusher like in the worst way.
- [64:23]
Chip Patterson
I would. I would drive. I would draft Kenny and Sadiq first overall.
- [64:27]
Tom Fornelli
Chip. Chip's got some feelings about Kenya.
- [64:29]
Bud Elliott
He's got a little nastiness to him too. Like he's not just a, you know, detached kind of softer receiver that, that,
- [64:38]
Chip Patterson
that person was built to play the game of football.
- [64:42]
Bud Elliott
Yeah.
- [64:44]
Chip Patterson
Good golly. Yeah. Started by 2026 watching that guy in warm ups down on the field in Hard Rock Stadium, no pads on. I was, I was telling Tom yesterday doing, doing that warm up drill where like, strength coach has got the resistance band and you're running against the resistance band. And I'm just like watching these, like, the size and the strength, and I'm like, okay, this is.
- [65:05]
Bud Elliott
We're gonna need a bigger band.
- [65:08]
Chip Patterson
A different human right here. Big Kenyan Sadiq fan right here for sure. All right. It will be on all weekend, then on Monday cycling back with some NFL draft combine reactions. Come hang out 11:00am Eastern time. And you can follow him on Twitter at Tom Fenelli. You can follow him@bud Elliott3. You can follow him at Danny Canary. You can follow me at Chip Underscore Patterson. Gentlemen, thank you very much.
- [65:37]
Tom Fornelli
Thank you.
- [65:38]
Chip Patterson
See ya.
- [65:39]
Danny Kanell
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