← Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast
Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast
Building a Culture that Attracts the Right Leaders
00:26:15
If you want a high-performing team tomorrow, develop a great culture today. In this episode, Craig shares how to design a culture that consistently attracts and builds great leaders.
Loading summary
Transcript1 lines
- [00:00]
A
The very best leaders obsess about developing the right leaders. Why? Because the right leaders will find the right location and the right leaders will launch the right products and they'll design the right branding and they'll create the right advertising strategy. Why? Because the potential of your organization rests on the strength of its people. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast where we My goal and my passion is to help you become a leader that people love to follow. And if you're new to our community, we drop a brand new teaching on the first Thursday of each month. But we're actually wrapping up a multiple week series answering your questions. And I wanna do this again next year. So if you have any more questions, comments, feedback, you wanna say anything to us, email us anytime at leadershipife Church. And we love hearing from you. I wanna encourage you wherever you consume this content, hit subscribe right now. And a big thank you for posting on social media. I'll shout out Sky Reedy and Jerison Medina and Allison Patterson. Thank you guys for posting. Anytime you invite others to be a part of our community, we may repost it as well. And just wanna say thank you. Now your time is valuable, so let's get to work. Mark asked the question very, very important. He asked, how do you attract the right people who are willing to be a part of your organization and you want to work with you. And then he talked about making sure they're missionally aligned, they have the right passion, the right calling, and are aligned with the right values. Really important, how do you attract the right people to be a part of your organization? And Mark, this is super important. Why? Because the potential of your organization rests on the strength of its people. The potential of your organization always rests on the strength of its people. Your potential impact, it always reflects the quality of your leaders. So, Mark, you're very, very wise to think about the people. Unfortunately, so many leaders don't really understand this truth. A lot of leaders obsess about things that I would call like organizational strategy. They'll focus on first, like finding the right location or launching the right products or designing the right brand or creating the right advertising strategy. And there's nothing horrible with those things, but I would suggest a better approach, and that is this. Many leaders obsess about developing the right strategy, but the best leaders obsess about developing the right leaders. I want to say it again. So many people, they're just like, hey, strategy and what do we do next? But the very best leaders obsess about developing the right leaders. Why? Because the right leaders will find the right location and the right leaders will launch the right products and they'll design the right branding and they'll create the right advertising strategy. Why? Because the potential of your organization rests on the strength of its people. So what do you want? You want the right leaders, and you want the leaders that match your mission, reflect your values, share your calling, and lead with aligning values. In other words, you always want talented leaders. Right? But you don't just want talented leaders. You want talented leaders that align with your values. Super important. And so, Mark, you ask, how do you attract those people? Good question. But I'm kind of obsessive about wording. I'm gonna suggest one little tweak to your question. Okay, Mark, just bear with me. I think this is important. Instead of asking, how do you attract the right leaders? I would suggest adding one little word that will reshape how you think about leaders. And I'd add this word, how do you attract and build the right leaders? One little word. I know it sounds nitpicky, it is nitpicky. But it's really, really important. I would suggest this as often as possible. Think build before attraction. As often as possible. When you're looking at developing your team, think, build before, attract. Whenever leaders from, like, anywhere around the world might visit our organization and spend time with our staff, I'm always blessed because they say, like, where do you find these world class leaders? I mean, they're amazing. Like, I mean, deep in the organization, they have passion, they serve with excellence, they're really, really smart, they're great at creating systems. Where do you find these world class leaders? And I always just say very humbly, but truthfully, we don't find great leaders, we build them. We don't just try to attract them, we build them systematically, strategically, intentionally, with a plan. And I would love to talk about, you know, how do you build leaders in detail? And honestly, that's kind of the main theme of this whole podcast. And so I just want to state that. And it's impossible to answer that briefly. So what I want to do, Mark, I want to focus on the heart of your question. And we'll answer it this way, ask it this way. How do you attract and build the leaders that align missionally? And so we'll start with the big premise and then we'll drill down to specifics. This is not just about putting out like a clear and compelling job description to attract and build. And of course you want to do that, but we're going to think more about creating a culture that is so compelling that the right people, the right leaders are drawn to it. And so then the next obvious question is, how do we do that right? How do we create a culture that is worthy of world class leaders? How do we create a culture that's so vibrant, so mission focused, so unified, with so much power, direction and intentionality that the best leaders or the people with the most potential actually want to be a part of that culture? Let's talk about it. What is your culture? How is it created? Your culture is created by default or design. Every single time. It's created by default or by design. In other words, your culture. It seems obvious, but it's so true. It is a result of what you have intentionally created or what you have unintentionally allowed. What is your culture? It's the unwritten rules, it's how people think, it's how people behave. And it's always a result of what you intentionally create or unintentionally allow. And so to state the obvious, but we need to say it is, I don't care how much you care how hard you work, you will never create a healthy, strong, thriving culture by accident and so important, you'll never attract, build and and retain the right people. When you tolerate an unhealthy culture, your culture matters more than you can imagine. So let's get practical and talk about it. If you want to attract and build missionally aligned leaders, what do you do? We're going to talk about three things. Number one, you want to be clear about what you value. You want to be really, really clear about what you value. Now why does this matter? It matters because you don't attract what you want. You attract who you are. You don't just say, hey, I want to attract leaders that are excellent. If you don't lead with excellence, you don't just attract leaders that are humble. If you're full of pride, you don't just attract what you want, you attract who you are. So you're not just out there like trying to find the right people. You're creating the type of organization that the right people want to join. And so if you need help creating values, I've got some additional episodes on values, all on cultural values. I'll recommend two of them to you and then we'll link to these two in the leader guide and we'll also link to some other ones. Two episodes. You'll want to listen to episode 67. It's called Building a Strong Culture where I Interview Jerry Hurley. He is the kind of like the cultural architect here. And in episode 119 is creating a workplace your team doesn't want to leave. We'll link to those two as well as a few others to talk really more in depth about culture. So let's talk about your values for just a moment. How do you create the values? Well, you. You start with what you love and what you hate, what you love and what you righteously hate, what you stand for and what you don't ever want to tolerate. And then you. You're going to pick three, four, five, six, never more than seven values. And you want your values to be very, very clear, very compelling and memorable. You want everyone to know these values. You want them to not just be words on the wall in the hall, but you want them to be burned on the hearts of your leaders. And you might say, okay, why get so excited, Craig, about your values? Well, because they create everything. What you value determines what you do. What you value determines what you do. What you believe determines how you behave. So what you want to do is you want to be super, super clear. These are the values. These are the things that we stand for in our organization, and we don't bend on those. So if you want to attract and build the right leaders, first you have to be really, really clear about what you value. The second thing is you want to create a culture that unwaveringly reflects and protects your values. You want a culture that says, this is what we do and when we do it and how we do it, and we never, ever do it that way, no matter what. Why? Again, I'll say it. Your culture is created by default or by design. Your culture is a reflection of what you create or what you tolerate. So if you're looking at your culture today and you're going, we're not really getting the kind of people we want. It's probably because you don't have the kind of culture that you really want to attract those people. So if you don't like your culture, stop tolerating it and start creating it. And again, I don't have time to go deep on this subject, but it really is important to make it as simple as I can. Like, how do you do it? In just a few words, how do you create culture? As simply as I can say it is, you're going to be clear about what you value, and you're going to reward it when you see it and correct it when you don't. That's it. I could unpack that for an hour, but we'll just do it in 30 seconds. You want to create culture. You're going to be really, really clear. This is what we value. And then as a leader, every time someone lives in those values, you report it, you reward it, you celebrate it, you cheer them on. You say, hey, there it was. That was great. You talk about it at meetings. You reward it when you see it, and you correct it when you don't. And you do that over and over and over again. And what you're doing is you're teaching your team how you think, how you behave, how you. How you act, how you respond. And honestly, you're teaching them why you care about what you're doing. Because it reflects your values. What does a strong culture do? It actually corrects wrong behavior. When the culture is strong, wrong behavior stands out. And the culture, the team, corrects it really, really quickly. And so it's not easy. And you're gonna wanna work really, really hard, like starting now, starting yesterday, starting immediately, on establishing a strong culture. And when you work hard on creating the right culture, the right culture will work hard for you. Let me say it again. When you work hard on creating the right culture, then the right culture will work for you. It's going to drive the right behaviors and it's going to correct the wrong ones. And then all of a sudden, this culture, this is like your advertisement. People say, I want to be a part of that. Because you've got clarity, you've got direction, you've got mission, you've got passion. And the good news is it just takes consistency over time. You reward it and you correct it. Do that consistently over time. The bad news is you're never finished. You're always creating culture because, like, once you create it, then you have to righteously guard it. So every meeting, all the time, everywhere, anytime you're with people, you're talking values, you're celebrating it, you're correcting when it's not there. Why? Because vision leaks and values drift. Vision leaks and values drift. So as a leader, you're the chief reminding officer, here's what we stand for. Here's where we're going. Here's what we believe. Here's what we value. Why, if you want the right people, you have to create the right culture. So, number one, be clear about what you value. Number two, create a culture that is unwavering. It unwaveringly reflects and protects your values. Now, let's talk about the people. Number three, what you want to do is you want to interview or Recruit for values over talent. This is going to make you mad. It's actually hard for me to say it, but this is true. You're going to interview or recruit for values over talent and you may say, ah, that I can't quite buy that. Like for years I really, I kind of thought it, but was afraid to say it out loud. It just took me years and years to see it over and over again. I have to say it and I want you to hear it. And I want you, I beg you to believe me. Recruit for values over talent. Don't stop listening. Call me a leadership heretic. Yes, of course. You want smart leaders? Yes. You want bright leaders? Yes. You want gifted leaders? Yes. You want leaders with talent? Yes. But take it to the bank. When talent isn't rooted in strong values, the results will be shallow and short lived. Let me say it again and I want you to hear it. And if you've led for any time, you know it's true. When talent isn't rooted in strong values, the result will be shallow and short lived. Without character, someone's gifts, they quickly become liabilities. I mean, they can be incredibly talented, but if they don't have character, they're going to fall apart and create organizational disasters right and left. And I would give you an example, but if you've been leading for any time at all, you've lived it, right? We've all been around the talented leader that lacks integrity, or the capable leader that loses her temper, or the brilliant charismatic leader that lacks consistency or is over demanding or whatever it is. And it doesn't matter how capable they are. If their values are organizationally misaligned, they will end up leading the other team members into the wrong place. So you have to get it right. And I want to be really, really clear and tell you this, that they don't even have to have what I call like bad values, like lacking integrity to be a liability, that the values can simply be like different from yours. And that can be a problem. And I'll try to explain, and I don't want to bore you with my pastoral details, but I am a pastor and there are so many different ways to do church. Our way is one way to do church. It is not the best way. It's just one way and it reflects our gifts, our context, our passions and our values. If I was born in a different part of the world and people thought differently, we would read the same Bible and maybe apply it with different values. And so again, I don't wanna bore you with my world but there are some pastors that value discipleship over evangelism. You have to disciple. That's what matters. Others value evangelism over discipleship, and that's all that matters. Others say they're equally important and you have to do them all, do them both well. So what do we have? A very capable and godly pastor might not do well in a church that has different values. All the values are God honoring. They're just a little bit different. They're prioritized in a different way. In our context, if we tried to hire a pastor that was talented but doesn't like big churches, fundamentally, they're not gonna do well here. Right. If we're recruiting somebody and they're a strong Christian, but they think that leadership is unspiritual, that you know they're not gonna succeed here because the values have to be aligned. And I give you those examples to tell you that the same is true for you. There's something that you value that makes you unique. There's something deep inside you, whether you lead a nonprofit or a business or a church or whatever, it is your family that makes your family unique. And so you want to be really, really clear on what those values are. And when you're recruiting people, you want to recruit people that share your values. And so you're going to design your interview process or your recruiting strategy to try to discover these values. And again, if they're completely incapable and share your values, we're not hiring them. We want capable, gifted people that have aligned values. And so let's talk about how to do it. Let's say you lead a startup business and you value integrity, innovation, and resiliency. You want people to lead with integrity. They're going to act with honesty, transparency, and strong moral principles. So you're in an interview process or you're casually getting to know someone, you're going to want to ask them some questions that help reveal do they have integrity or not? I'll give you a couple questions you might just ask them. Hey, describe a time when you had to make a hard decision to do something that was right but difficult, and you want them to talk about it. They had to make a decision. Ask them. Was there ever a time when. When you did something at work that you regretted and how'd you handle it? You're digging to see do they have integrity? What do they do when it's difficult? Let's say it's innovation. You wanna find out. Do they continually seek creative solutions and improve the organization? So you might ask Them, hey, tell me about a time when you introduced a new idea that led to a positive change? Or you might ask them, how do you approach a project when you don't yet have a clear solution? What steps do you take to find a path forward? And what you're doing is you're getting into their thought process. Can they problem solve? Have they created ideas that have actually led to something significant? Resiliency? One more the ability to fail and recover quickly. A lot of leaders look pretty good and then they fall apart. And so you might ask, hey, did you ever work for a difficult boss? Okay, tell me about how'd you handle it and what'd you learn? And so how do they do under pressure, you might ask, have you ever found yourself overwhelmed at work with too much to do? What'd you do? And at that point, if they say they quit, here's a hack, don't hire them. But that's just a side note. And what I want to do just to help you, because this is really important, is to create your own value driven questions is I'm going to give you a running start. We've created a list, I call it 100 value driven interview questions. And this is a document that has a list of some of the most common organizational values. And there are a hundred interview questions that will help you discover your candidate's values. It'll be in the Leader Guide. If you don't yet get the Leader Guide, go to Life Church LeaderShipPodcast and then we'll send you the 100 value driven questions. And I promise you, I promise you, you would rather have a B level leader with aligned values than an A player with misaligned values. Remember this. It's so important is you can always teach skills, but you can't teach values. You can always help someone improve in their skills, but you can't change their heart. Only God can do that. So if you or your team find yourself hesitating, you're recruiting someone, you're in an interview process, you're like, I'm not sure if she's going to fit in or he's great, but he seems a little bit off. Don't talk yourself into hiring that person. Especially when you're desperate. You have to be really on guard when you're desperate. You have to remind yourself what you do is really, really, really important. And you'd rather wait longer to find the right person than hire the wrong one when you're desperate. Why? Because culture is built by the people you hire. If you hire people with the Wrong values, you'll never have the right culture. And without the right culture, you could never attract, build and retain the right leaders. Side thought, this is important. If you have a culture that you love, it's healthy, thriving, and you're proud of it, as often as possible, hire and promote from within. Meaning instead of going out and hiring some executive VP from some other organization, bringing them into your healthy culture, anytime you bring someone from the outside in at a high level, it's really, really risky. It's like bringing an organ into your body. You don't know if it's gonna take or not. So if you have a really healthy organization, like in our church, we recruit from our church. When we promote, we almost always, almost always promote from within. But if you don't like your culture, let's say you took over a job, or let's say you're a new youth pastor at a church that was dysfunctional, whatever, and you're trying to change your culture, then you might actually be wise to look outside and find those outside that exhibit your values and bring them in to start overwhelming your culture with new people that reflect the values of where you want to go. So what do we do? We're trying to recruit, build, train, release the right leaders. I want to tell you this, you're not going to get it right every time. You will make mistakes and we all do. And I'll say humbly and thankfully, like sincerely thankfully, that I'm honored to serve with one of the longest tenured teams that I've seen in any organization. If you can imagine this, our top four leaders have been together for over a quarter of a century, for over 25 years. And these are some of the most talented spiritual leaders I've ever seen in any field, business, nonprofit, whatever. And this is a team that has led a church that continues to grow and thrive almost three decades into it. That's incredibly rare. So what am I? Obviously I'm a leadership genius, right? Okay, not at all. When I started, I was a 20 year old seminary grad that had never led anything. And to be really transparent with you, every single first hire of every category, of the category of kids ministry, student ministry, executive team, pastoral care, every single first hire is not here anymore. In other words, I didn't get it right the first time. Almost nobody will get it right the first time. Every single time. And it took me a few years to start learning who I was as a leader, starting to learn to lead, starting even to formulate what our values were. It took me several years and Quite a bit of work to start putting together a team that has now lasted a long period of time. So you're going to make some mistakes and you're going to have to make some corrections. What I want you to do is when you make a mistake and you will admit it really, really quickly, and you're going to have to remove some people on the way that aren't right and you're never going to get it right. 100% of the time when you make a mistake, you admit it and you correct it. You admit it and you correct it. And right now, if you have some leaders, especially in higher levels right now, or it could even be like a volunteer at your nonprofit on the weekend or whatever. If you have a leader with misaligned values, it's like having a house with a cracked foundation. It may not be visible right now, but it actually makes a whole organization unstable. And you may say, like, you're being kind of dramatic, I'm being truthful with you. If you have leaders with misaligned values and they're, especially if they're high up in the organization, it makes the whole thing unstable. What you have to do, and this is one of the reasons leadership's not easy, is if you've got a key leader or a key volunteer and they have misaligned values and they're a problem, you have to deal with a problem leader. And I want to say if you don't deal with the problem, you have no idea how much credibility you're going to lose with the rest of the team who are all looking on going, there's a problem and our leader's not dealing with the problem. So if you don't deal with a problem, eventually the problem isn't the problem, but you're the problem because you're not dealing with the root issue. So we've covered a lot of ground and let's just kind of wrap it up. What are you? You are a mission focused, value driven servant leader. Whenever the mission is clear, the decisions are easy. Whenever the values are clear and celebrated, the culture becomes healthy. Healthy cultures attract healthy leaders. But you aren't just attracting, you are building. And building is hard work. It takes a lot of time. And when you attract great leaders, when you build great leaders and you want to retain great leaders, what are you going to do? You have to let them lead, you have to cheer them on, you have to take risks and you have to celebrate the wins. And before long, it may take three years, five years, it could take a while. But before long. You're going to wake up and realize you're part of something special. Part of something special. And. And I want to tell you it is almost impossible to fathom what God can do through a team of growing leaders aligned with missional passion and shared values. I'm going to wrap it up with one closing statement before I do. I want to help you grow in your leadership. And we're going to give away some free books. If you'd like to get Pat Lincioni's book, Five Dysfunctions of a Team. It is a book I read years and years ago. It helped shape me. Hop over to YouTube, type in the comments section. I want to be on a great team. I want to be on a great team. Type that in at YouTube. We're going to give away five copies of Pat's book. And I wrap it up by saying this. When you humbly submit yourself to grow and be led into a mission that really matters, surround yourself with like minded leaders wholly obsessed to a mission. One day you'll wake up and say, wow, somehow together, apart with other other great servant leaders, we're actually making a difference in the world. And I want you to know you have that in you. You can make a difference. You can find the right people, but not just find the right people. You can build the right people and together you can build each other. And when you all get better, guess what? Everyone wins. Because we know that everyone wins when the leader gets better.