Turning Constraints Into Creativity | Bible App Founder Bobby Gruenewald

Summary

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Episode Overview

Title: Turning Constraints Into Creativity
Host: Craig Groeschel (B)
Guest: Bobby Gruenewald (A), Founder of YouVersion Bible App
Release Date: November 6, 2025

This episode celebrates the journey of the YouVersion Bible App as it approaches an extraordinary milestone—one billion installs. Craig Groeschel and Bobby Gruenewald discuss how creativity thrives under constraints, the process of selecting and stewarding ideas, the power of declaring bold goals, the crucial role of team and leadership, and what it means to have an abundant mindset. Through candid reflections on failures, growth, and vision, the episode inspires leaders in ministry, business, and beyond to dream big, embrace accountability, and innovate despite limitations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin and Growth of YouVersion

• Small Beginnings:
  Bobby recalls the app's conception while waiting in an airport in 2006. He simply wondered, “Could technology help me read the Bible more consistently?” (04:29)

• Early Constraints:
  The team started with "literally no staff, no money, no resources.” (05:07) Bobby attributes their innovation to a lack of resources, forcing creative solutions:

  "Money just lets you buy solutions. You don't really innovate when you have money." – Bobby Gruenewald [22:05]

  They leveraged vision-casting, volunteer support, and relationships to move the idea forward. One key trigger was publicly announcing the project before it was built, which generated momentum and resources they didn't yet have. (10:58–13:09)

• First Major Obstacles:
  Early on, they learned modern translations of the Bible are owned by publishers—as Bobby recounts, “I had no idea. I kind of thought the Bible had been around for a long time and it’s free.” (09:32) Building relationships and gaining rights required bold approaches and faith.

2. The Power of Declaring Big Goals

• Catalytic Declarations:
  Publicly setting bold goals creates urgency and accountability. Bobby says:

  "There's an accountability that comes with mentioning a goal publicly. I would rather miss trying, you know, than miss not having a goal.” [14:42]

• Risk and Accountability:
  Even when facing potential failure, Bobby and Craig routinely commit to aggressive, “gamble” goals. Craig states:

  “If you aren’t failing somewhat regularly, you are not thinking big enough.” [15:16]
  Bobby agrees, emphasizing the value of attempting more than staying safe.

3. Embracing and Learning from Failure

• From Website to App:
  The first YouVersion platform—a Bible website—was a “great example of failure.” Despite thorough effort, “three months in, it became apparent... it didn’t work. It didn’t change how we engaged in the Bible.” (16:47)
  The learning led to pivoting onto mobile, eventually being one of the first 200 free apps on Apple’s App Store.

• Fail Fast, Learn Fast:
  Bobby is adamant about honestly acknowledging failure:

  “The fear of failure is not the fear that keeps people from starting, it’s the fear that keeps people from stopping something that’s not working.” [17:28]

4. How Constraints Fuel Creativity

• Artificial Constraints for Innovation:
  Even with increased resources today, Bobby deliberately imposes artificial constraints, such as tight deadlines and budgets, to stimulate creative problem-solving.

  “I just don’t think you get great ideas if you don’t have those constraints.” [22:58]

5. Abundant Mindset and Generosity

• Giving Away Ideas:
  Bobby stresses being open-handed with ideas, shaped by an abundance mindset:

  “Any one particular idea is not the best only idea I’ll ever have... I always believe God’s going to design me to create more.” [06:24]

  This means freely sharing or giving away ideas so as not to be distracted from higher-priority opportunities.

6. Building and Scaling an Organization

• Business and Ministry Overlap:
  Bobby sees nonprofit and business leadership as fundamentally similar outside the ownership structure. The same principles of scaling, team development, and revenue/expense management apply. (03:09)

• Speed over Perfection:
  As a leader, Bobby prioritizes relentless forward motion:

  “Speed and flexibility are two things that, left to their own, disappear—both in organizations and in our human body. You have to fight for speed and agility.” [24:49–25:43]

• Leading Through Growth:
  On sustaining growth as the organization expands, Bobby and Craig agree the vision must stay vastly bigger than the past, so “you’ll be pulled out.” [26:08] The mission for YouVersion is “to get God’s word to everyone, everywhere, every day.” (25:56)

7. Reviving Momentum

• Don't Coast:
  After early rapid growth, Bobby describes a challenging “cruise control” period around 2021–2022 where YouVersion’s expansion plateaued. Honest conversations with mentors forced a decision—either “find a new steward” or make “significant changes.” (30:23–34:08)

• Recasting Vision and Investment:
  Bobby realized that only a clear, much bigger articulated vision, massive new investment, and world-class talent would reset the growth curve:

  “We needed to invest a lot more in it... an order of magnitude more than we had been investing before.” [35:06]

• Personal Commitment:
  Bobby stepped fully into a 'CEO' role, leading restructuring, recruiting, and fundraising efforts. In the wake of change, YouVersion’s momentum surged—annual downloads and supporting resources quadrupled. (37:04–38:47)

8. Personal Capacity and Growth

• Planning that Demands Growth:
  Bobby advocates for planning futures that require personal growth:

  “I always want a plan for a future that demands my growth.” [41:13]

  Craig summarizes: “If you feel like you’re trapped, you’re stuck... you actually do. And by planning for more, that can be the very thing that is the catalyst to help you learn to grow.” [42:04]

• Capacity Expands by Stretching:
  Both host and guest practice “adding” when feeling stretched, likening it to muscle-building. “When I’m feeling stretched, I add something... it really does force me to move off center...” [42:12–42:35]

• Lifelong Learning:
  Bobby models “binge learning,” often immersing himself deeply and quickly into new subjects, inspired by a mentor who pursued mastery long into retirement. (43:28–46:00)

9. Celebrating the Billion Milestone & Global Bible Month

• Big Celebration:
  To mark one billion installs, YouVersion is launching Global Bible Month. Activities include a major broadcast event, Times Square and Las Vegas Sphere activations, and partnerships worldwide—including with Amazon Prime. [47:32–49:17]

• Everyone's Invited:
  The challenge: Read the Bible for 30 consecutive days in November. Bobby emphasizes: “If you have tried everything else, you might just try reading the Bible for 30 days straight and just see what happens.” [49:38]

• Beyond a Billion:
  The team’s eyes are on the future: Bobby declares “we are striding over [this milestone]. This is all about what’s next.” [53:15–53:19]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Constraints and Innovation:
  “Having less creates more innovation than having more.” – Craig Groeschel [22:37]

• On Declaring Goals:
  “There’s an accountability that comes with mentioning a goal publicly. I would rather miss trying, you know, than miss not having a goal.” – Bobby Gruenewald [14:42]

• On Failure:
  “The fear of failure... is the fear that keeps you from stopping something that’s not working... That’s like the fear of failure.” – Bobby Gruenewald [17:28]

• On Planning for Growth:
  “We always want to plan for a future that demands our personal growth.” – Craig Groeschel restating Bobby [41:13–41:33]

• On Lifelong Learning:
  “I want to be a lifetime learner. I want to challenge myself to keep learning even when I’m… done.” – Bobby Gruenewald (45:25)

• On Mission:
  “We have a vision ever since God’s word, everyone, everywhere, every day. That is so ridiculous.” – Bobby Gruenewald [25:56]

• On Celebration & Legacy:
  “You were a kid that got a free Bible... and now you get to lead the organization that gives that away.” – Bobby Gruenewald [53:15]

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Important Timestamps

• The YouVersion Origin Story & Problem of Copyright: 04:29–10:22
• Declaring Vision Publicly, Accountability & God's Provision: 10:23–13:18
• Constraints and Early Resource Challenges: 21:59–22:37
• Pivoting from Website Failure to Mobile App Success: 16:41–21:01
• Aggressive Goals and Embracing Failure: 13:55–15:23
• Artificial Constraints for Ongoing Creativity: 22:58–23:29
• Scaling Leadership in Growth Periods: 38:47–42:04
• Global Bible Month Launch and Celebration: 47:32–50:01
• Vision for the Next Billion & Final Reflections: 53:04–53:37

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Leadership Takeaways

Practical Lessons for Leaders

• Hold ideas loosely: Don’t treat any single idea as the only or best one you’ll ever have; share with and learn from others.
• Declare goals boldly: It creates necessary urgency and meaningful accountability.
• Embrace constraints: Lean into resource scarcity as a driver for innovation; artificially impose limits when abundance arrives.
• Acknowledge and learn from failure: Move on quickly, document lessons, and don’t keep nearly-dead projects on life support.
• Plan futures that force your growth: Don’t set ceilings based on what you can do today; expand your vision and commit to personal development.
• Celebrate with purpose: Mark milestones to energize your team and community for the next season of impact.

Inspirational Call

Craig closes with an exhortation:

“Instead of saying, ‘I’m stuck and I can’t do anymore,’ project for a future that actually demands your growth... The moment you think you’re big, you start to get slow. The moment you think you’re big, your future gets smaller... Whatever you’re doing right now, you’re just getting started. The best is yet to come.” [53:37 onward]

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This summary captures the episode’s lessons on innovation under constraints, bold leadership, and the power of vision and stewardship—offering valuable guidance for leaders at every level.

Transcript

[A]

So if that's the case, then any one particular idea is not the best only idea I'll ever have. I find that, like, sometimes when you're trying to pull the resources together to make something like that happen, you need to be able to make a commitment to the vision. And there's an accountability that comes with mentioning a goal publicly. I would rather miss trying, you know, than miss not having a goal.

[B]

Bobby Gruenwall, welcome back.

[A]

Good to be back.

[B]

Well, I haven't seen you in a long time.

[A]

Yeah. Like this morning.

[B]

This morning. Thank you for doing the podcast. We have a pretty special celebration coming up for the YouVersion Bible app.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

You want to tell us? I'm baiting you.

[A]

Okay, very good. Yeah, we're going to have a milestone. We're reaching 1 billion installs of the.

[B]

Billion with a B.

[A]

1 billion with a B. Yeah.

[B]

That's pretty special. And so I want to talk to you about that, but I want to hear a little bit of the story behind it. I'm going to tell our listening audience what you wouldn't tell them. Bobby's way too humble, but Bobby is genuinely. You are one of the smartest people I know alive, anywhere, all over the world. And you actually started and you built and sold two technology companies back in college. True or false? True. True. You built and sold two technology companies in college. While most people were ordering cheap pizza and staying up way too late, you were getting a degree in building and selling two businesses.

[A]

We ordered cheap pizza. And we stayed up late, too.

[B]

Yeah, you stayed up late. I know you did. And then after that, you had really early success, but you also had passion for the things of God and started attending our church and ended up recognizing you might have another gear in you, which is not just business, but ministry. I'm curious, because sometimes people ask these types of questions. Where do, like, business principles, leadership principles in business overlap with ministry?

[A]

Well, first of all, thank you for the kind words. You always say it probably in a way that sounds even better than it was.

[B]

Well, sometimes I make it better. For real. But all that was true.

[A]

You're very generous, but, yeah, no, I.

[B]

We.

[A]

And we also fell in love with life church. That's part of the story there, too. We started attending.

[B]

You were a volunteer keyboard player.

[A]

I was a volunteer keyboard player.

[B]

And before we could afford to pay good ones.

[A]

Well, that's exactly right. I was like, probably the last volunteer keyboard player. Because after that, we're like, hey, we should probably pay somebody that knows what they're doing. No, but we fell in love with the local church. And yeah, God led me through that process onto the team, which I never expected.

[B]

Well, first, I mean, you started working for free and wouldn't take a salary, which that was generous of you, but that was. You were just. That's kind of how you are.

[A]

Well, we were. We were very, very blessed to be a part of a great church and still are to be able to be here today.

[B]

So principles that overlap.

[A]

Yeah. So principles. Over to your question. Yeah, I find that, like, someone asked me the other day, like, what is. What's running a not for profit? How's running a not for profit different than running a for profit? I was like, well, they're actually identical except for the ownership structure for the most part. Just I don't own any shares. You don't own any shares, you know, of the. Of the church. But other than that, you know, everything's a lot like very similar. So the principles, I think are very applicable. You've got to figure out how you generate enough revenue. And then there's the expenses. It's a P and L that goes with it. It's just that the income that sits at the bottom is called in not for profit world. A change in that assets. But that just basically goes back into the ministry, and that's the difference. So other than that, like just the way you lead people, all the things that you learn about scaling growth, all those things are completely applicable.

[B]

Well, I think it's really cool that you had those experiences because in many ways the church that we built, which is a nonprofit, always will be a nonprofit. We had really good success building with people with business backgrounds that had a heart for the church and those things were really special. Let's Talk about the YouVersion Bible app. This was your idea. I think you were standing in line in an airport when the idea came to you.

[A]

Yep, Chicago Airport 2006. Just wondering if I could use technology to help me read the bible more consistently. Pretty simple idea. Pretty simple question. No idea standing in the airport that that would actually become something that it has become today. But yeah, that's where it started.

[B]

So from an idea back in the airport to today celebrating the free YouVersion Bible app, not free to build, but free to give will be on 1 billion devices and people have outside that are in the technology field have valued this app at several billion dollars is.

[A]

What they would say would be worth.

[B]

From an idea to if it were a business worth several billion dollars. How did you start? What's like, where do you. From an Idea to creating movement. You had no resources, but just, I mean like literally no staff, no money, no resources. How did you jumpstart any kind of movement with just an idea?

[A]

Yeah, well, you know this about me, but I'm actually full of ideas. So the first starting point is actually trying to filter for like what's the right idea.

[B]

And that's. And I want to just pause there because that's a really good point that a lot of people have ideas and you have to choose the right ones. And we have probably in a lot and you've had five or six what I would kind of almost call like course altering ideas. And to find those five or six, we had to say no to a lot of what were really good ideas. And a couple of dumplings probably. Right?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But that's, that's a really good point. I think that people need to hear.

[A]

Yeah. So I mean I've, I've tried to have a, I think a really good self filter for ideas, which is tough to do sometimes, but the only way you can do that is if you actually hold ideas really loosely. If you see like I think God designed me to generate ideas and if I. And I have an abundance.

[B]

Accurate.

[A]

I have an abundance mindset.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which means I always believe God's going to design me to create more. So if that's the case, then any one particular idea is not the best only idea I'll ever have and I got to protect it. So then not only do I have a good self filter, but I've got people around me that tell me the truth. And I want to really debate an idea before I feel satisfied that it's something worth going through. So I want to ask the people around me that I trust to say, pick this apart. Let me kind of share it with you. I want to hear your perspective. Counter perspective. And so it's after usually a wide, like a process of going through that it doesn't have to be super long, but it's usually fairly thorough. Then I say, okay, this I think is a good idea. Now the question is, is it the right timing to do it? And that's sometimes a different question. We've sat on an idea like church online or are we the right people to do it? Right. Yeah.

[B]

Are we?

[A]

Exactly. So just because it's a great idea doesn't mean it's ours to do so. In fact, many times I share great ideas with other people because I want to encourage them to do it.

[B]

Yes. And what you said, I want to just draw out to our community so they hear it is that you have an abundant mindset. So a good idea isn't going to be your only idea and you don't have to protect it, which I think that sometimes people have an idea, like, I can't tell anybody. You know, there's almost a secretive fear that this is your only good one. And because of that, I have watched you come up with great ideas that you have literally given away to other organizations and help them start something that you could have started, but if you had started it, it would have been a distraction to a better idea for that current season.

[A]

Right. So that's the first part of the process is just defining, is this an idea that's worth moving?

[B]

So you had an idea worth moving, but you didn't have any resources. So how did you go from an idea in an airport to creating something that was worthy of somebody downloading?

[A]

I'm glad you acknowledged that. I didn't have any resources because it was part of our church. The things I do, I do through the church, obviously. And so back then, in our history.

[B]

Of our church, no budget, no stuff. No budget.

[A]

Yeah. You gave me a blessing, but not a budget. That's what a blessing meant back then.

[B]

That's exactly right. All of those blessings cost the budget later.

[A]

That's exactly right. Yeah. So at the time we got started, it's really about casting a vision, helping to paint a picture of what this future reality is going to look like. That is a repetitive task. You do it in front of a lot of different people. You do it over and over again. And if you do it well, then you find some people that catch the vision, and they say, man, I want to be a part of that. And in that time, we were asking people to effectively donate their time, we might have had just a few dollars that we could scrape together to do a few things. But honestly, it was really just people believing in the vision and wanting to try it. So that was what it looked like in the early days. And then we learned really quickly with the Bible app that there were a lot of obstacles that one might presume. Well, that should be easy. Just go build a website and add the Bible to it. The first significant obstacle was we discovered that people actually own the Bible. I know that, you know that at that time, I had no idea. Like, I kind of thought the Bible had been around for a long time and it's free.

[B]

At that time, I'm not sure I knew that either. I mean, we learned it, but we want to give it away. And someone else Owns it.

[A]

Yeah. And it makes sense if you think about it. We just didn't know at the time, but people invest in the translations, the modern translations, spend a lot of money, just spending a lot of money. And it made complete sense that they should get a royalty. That was kind of the model that they license it and package it up and sell it in the form of printed Bibles or whatever format. So that was the first obstacle because we really believed this website needed to be free. And it was not an easy ask to go to a publisher and say, I want you to give me your Bible text that you worked so hard, spent millions of dollars on. I want to give it away for free to as many people as possible, and I don't have the money to pay a royalty. The bigger problem was that we actually didn't have any relationships.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Didn't even know any of the publishers. Yeah, we were just at that. Our church is growing and. But we were not like that well known at the time. And. And so I've done this a few times or actually several times in my life, but I just sort of decided I'm going to announce the website publicly. You and I had a blog back then and it did have a bit of a following of pastors and church leaders that were following it. So I put together a blog post June 2007 and just announced this new website that was coming. Had talked about the features and no.

[B]

Real ability to create the website. No, you announced it.

[A]

I mean, we really had no. Yeah, we had an image or a picture of a website that we kind of mocked up and put together. But you would have got the impression that we were like days away from releasing it. We didn't say that, but it was just. It was really just a vision, you know, for it. And some of the people I think at the time thought that was a bit crazy.

[B]

It was a bit crazy. So what's the why behind it?

[A]

Yeah, well, one is I find that, like, sometimes when you're trying to pull the resources together to make a. Make something like that happen, you need to be able to make a commitment to the vision. And sometimes something like that is the catalyst, you know, that God uses to do it. Now, I didn't know what was going to come from that declaration and that blog post, but what it did was it did exactly what you would hope that it would just. It did it so perfectly that you could only see God kind of in the story. There's a gentleman in Florida that I didn't know at the time. He saw the article. He wanted to talk to me about this website, Rob Hoskins. He has been on your podcast, Dear Friend of Ours, today at that time, because of that.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. And. And he wanted to have a conversation. That conversation led to him calling a gentleman named Mark Green, who's also, I think, been on the podcast as well. And Mart called me here, and he's from our town in Oklahoma City. We didn't know him, and I knew of Mar, but I never met Mart, didn't know him. And so here I receive a phone call from somebody just a week or two after I did this blog post, and Mart's asking, like, details about the website, like to know how he could help. I said, well, the first obstacle we have is we need permission from one of these Bible text owners. He said, well, you know, we sell a lot of Bibles at our bookstore. And he, when he, he said that in a very humble way, but they, like, I think, buy like the most Bibles or something in the entire United States. And so he said, I can make an introduction to some of the publishers. Well, he. He turns around and sends email introductions, not just anybody, but to the CEOs of all these companies. And I realized, you know, God had sort of provided the perfect resource, like the perfect thing we needed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The perfect person.

[B]

You couldn't have orchestrated it, could not.

[A]

Have orchestrated better, but it, it required us to take a step of faith.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, we basically stepped out with that blog post, and then God was faithful to meet us when we took a step.

[B]

Yeah, I've seen you do that multiple times. And it's, it's. I think there's almost two levels to it. And correct me if I'm wrong, but there, I think there is a level of faith where you're like, I'm going to declare we're going hit this target by this time. We're going to create this by this time. And so there's faith behind it, but there's also something practical that it. Just having a constraint or a deadline or a goal creates a sense of urgency and drive and unpack that just a bit for me, because this seems to be. If you don't do it twice a year, you probably do it three times a year. Yeah.

[A]

No, I think you're right on your kind of analysis of it. Sometimes it literally is just a way to make a commitment that's, you know, in many ways just a step of faith. It's like, I'm committing to you, God, that I'm. I'm. I've Heard you and I'm moving in this direction. And then other times, just like in maybe simultaneously catalytic decoration, declaration. And there's an accountability that comes with. With mentioning a goal publicly. I don't know how many people I know that have goals, but they're like these quiet goals. Like. Well, I'm kind of hoping I can get to this. I'm. I'm not, you know, but they're nervous to share it or declare it because it has accountability. Like, oh, like what happens? My reputation, if people hear me make some statement.

[B]

And have you ever missed one of those goals?

[A]

Of course, yes.

[B]

Like, how do you feel afterwards? Like, are you.

[A]

Well, I rather. I was rather miss trying, you know, than miss not having a goal. Because most of the time people miss the little quiet goals that they have. And I. And I'd like to just know that we're being aggressive.

[B]

In fact, I hope everybody hears that. You would rather miss trying. Yeah. In fact, we just. Yesterday, we probably shouldn't talk about it yet, but yesterday made a commitment to a pretty significant gamble goal that maybe the odds of succeeding are 50. 50.

[A]

Sure. Maybe less.

[B]

Maybe less. Yeah. Oh, good. Now you tell me. Right. But that's. I think if you aren't failing somewhat regularly, you are not thinking big enough.

[A]

Correct. Yeah. It was. Wasn't a big enough goal.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. So I would say in any kind of organizational growth and development, you want to be failing every now and then. If not, you just. You're not pushing it enough. Yeah.

[A]

Aggressive goals have been a key part of a catalytic driver for me personally and I think for our team.

[B]

Yeah. So one thing you mentioned, and someone might have caught it, we're talking about the you Virgin Bible app. But you said this was a website.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's the story? Why was this a website, not an app?

[A]

It's a great example of failure. So we. The original idea for a website back in that time frame, it actually predated apps in the App Store. But again, this is a cool part of like God in the Story is this website. We launched it after all that energy I just talked about. We met with the publishers. We got permission from one of them initially to be able to use their text, which was a miracle. Had all these people donating their time. There's a big conference that promoted it for free to. To get it out there. So all these people are like, we believe in it. We're going to do it. Let's. Let's be a part of this. And three months in, it became apparent from the data that it didn't work. Like it didn't change how we engaged in the Bible. So this was not like some small little tests that we did and just some trivial thing. We put a little bit of money behind or something. No, this was like an all in effort to kind of significant investment.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Significant investment, time, leadership and public declarations that were going to do this. Right.

[B]

Didn't work.

[A]

Didn't work. So not afraid to fail and want to, but always want to learn from the failure. And for me this is maybe different for the, for other people, but I have to acknowledge the failure to be able to learn from the failure. There's a lot of people that just don't want to use that term. They want to be like, well we're still working it out. We're still. You haven't failed if you haven't stopped.

[B]

Or you're keeping something almost dead alive.

[A]

Right when you should acknowledge that it.

[B]

Needs to be shut down.

[A]

This is a problem in business world and particularly in the ministry world where the fear of failure is not the fear that keeps people from starting, it's the fear that keeps people from stopping something that's not working. That's like the fear of failure.

[B]

Say that again slower.

[A]

So the fear of failure is not most commonly associated with people thinking that you are afraid to start something. Like I'm afraid I'm going to fail so I don't start it. I think more of the reality of the fear of failure is the fear that keeps you from stopping something that's not working. Because if you, because that's when you really have to face the fact that it failed. Like is at that, that moment.

[B]

And we've stopped a lot of different things for sure.

[A]

And so this was going to be one of those same things. We're going to stop the website but we're going to list out what we learned because we don't want to make the same mistake again. But we've got to put our resources behind something else. And that process led us to try putting it on a mobile device. On a BlackBerry at the time was the phone that we were doing that again before apps, just a website. Displ it on a BlackBerry. So simple. I was skeptical. Didn't, didn't like make sense. It's a bible on a little tiny screen. But it worked.

[B]

It worked. We had access now on a device that we carried everywhere.

[A]

Exactly. We had it with us all the time. And so then fast forward just a couple months or really right in the middle of learning that Steve Jobs announces the App Store and the ability to have apps on the iPhone. And it was March of 2008 at this point. And so it's the best of what we see, which to try to build an app.

[B]

That's not exactly how it went, but we just had an idea that we put a lot of money into that failed and so it just failed. And you talked to me and said, hey, I've got an idea and this is on the back end of one that didn't work. And you explained to me what apps were and I'd kind of read about them but didn't know much. And you said, what if we create this? And again we're going to put money into it and give it away for free, but which we felt like was the right thing to do. And so you had an idea to create a Bible app and then try to release it in three months. In three months, yeah.

[A]

So. And we had no idea how to do it. So we found a 19 year old.

[B]

No one had to. We didn't know.

[A]

Yeah. There were not books on writing apps back then and honestly we didn't know when we saw some success on the mobile, on the BlackBerry. So it wasn't like we had no foundation to believe it could work. It was a quite. We just didn't know how big of a deal it was going to be.

[B]

So now we knew the Bible on a mobile device was actually a viable tool to help people get closer to God. So we believed in it, but it was still a risk.

[A]

And you didn't know what I mean. Today we look and say, well, the App Store is a big opportunity. It didn't. No one really.

[B]

It was untested.

[A]

Yeah, untested.

[B]

So you found someone to help you build an app? Yep.

[A]

He was on our team and it was a nights and weekends kind of project because we didn't really have the capacity to take him off of what he was already working on. And we sat together, we had, we had a couple of people that would just. We kind of all work together to get this app built. I'm not an engineer so I didn't write a line of code. I don't know how to do that. And we released it or submitted it to Apple in June of 2008. We thought there would be many, many apps, like many thousands of apps. We kind of presumed everybody's going to build one. Turns out there weren't as many people at the start. There were 200 free apps that were available the first day and our app was one of those first 200 the day the App Store launched.

[B]

And how did. I know the question, but I'm baiting you. How'd the launch go?

[A]

So we were shocked that it got approved. But the first weekend from Thursday night when it launched to Sunday morning, we saw 83,000 people installed on their iPhone. And to put that in context, I know we're talking about a milestone of a billion, but that just blew our minds. Like 83,000 seemed.

[B]

Couldn't even fathom that.

[A]

Could not get our head wrapped around it. So this is one of those moments where I clearly. You could clearly see God did something unexpected. And a simple recipe I've always tried to follow in life is if you see God move or do something unexpected, you put more resource behind it. Like, you just try to get behind what he's doing. Don't have to always create your own wave. But this was one of these things where clearly he was doing something. So you said we spent a lot of money on that website to remind you we didn't spend that much money on the website. But all of a sudden, now it.

[B]

All felt like a lot.

[A]

Back then, everything was true. That's true. But right now we realized we've got to do whatever we can. Whatever resource, time, energy we have, we've got to try to put behind this. And that's been the journey.

[B]

But it was back then, financially, we were in. We had no margin. Super tight. We had a lot of debt. We were worried about making payroll sometimes. So it's interesting that it was a gift. Yes. Yes. Honestly? Yes. Yes. Yeah. The fact that we didn't have a.

[A]

Lot was a gift.

[B]

And now explain to me why that would be. Because if we had a lot of money, wouldn't it be easier?

[A]

No. Money just lets you buy solutions. You don't really innovate when you have money.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

It's something that I think we were blessed in that season to be able to have to take different approaches to how we solve problems. If we had a lot of money, we would have probably structured something where we paid a publisher for the Bible text and we would have probably, you know, just thought about it more in a different way.

[B]

We could have slowed it down and messed it up with a lot of money. Probably.

[A]

Absolutely. We would have made it more complicated.

[B]

So this is super true. And I want to highlight this because I want our community just to embrace it. It's counterintuitive, but having less creates more innovation than having more. So would there ever be a time, Bobby, where you actually did have more time or more money or more resources. But you would create an artificial constraint 100%.

[A]

That's what you have to do. You have to put an artificial constraint, whether it's a time deadline, whether it's a financial budget, try to do it all the time. I mean, I think that, I just don't think you get great ideas if you don't have those constraints. And we're blessed to have people that support the Bible app today, our church, we have a lot of people that are behind it and of course that's a blessing on one hand, but we still exercise this constraint thing.

[B]

So just having served next to you for 20 years, six, seven years, I would say there are a lot of reasons why you have what I'd call exponential success and kingdom impact. One of it is just you have, you're really, really smart, just ridiculously smart. And you're futuristic in your approach to things. Second thing is you have a genuine, generous and abundant mindset that the ideas are never yours, they're never, you've got a million more. Another thing is you're just, you're a world class leader, you attract unbelievable talent, you empower people incredibly well organizationally. You know how to build an organization, you know how to scale. I would say somewhere in the top of the mix are the reasons why you are so successful. And I think the thing that the team might say is both the biggest blessing and the biggest frustration is you drive results all the time. All the time? All the time. It's not, you want it to be faster, you want it to be better, you want to be sharper. Big organization is hard to do that. What's the why behind it that you, when you could coast, when you could take your time, when you could shoot for perfection, you seem to prefer speed over perfection.

[A]

Yeah, well, I think that's, as a leader, I think you don't get to stop doing those things, or at least you should never stop. Speed and flexibility are two things that left to their own. Those disappear. They disappear, yeah, in an organization and they also disappear even in our human body. Like the older we get, it's speed and flexibility that go. So you have to, if you, you're going to get slower, you're going to get less flexible over time until you die. That's sort of the journey.

[B]

Great news. Yeah, great news.

[A]

So it takes extreme force to be able to counter that. And it honestly gets harder and harder.

[B]

It's the bigger you get.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Growth creates complexity. Complexity kills growth.

[A]

I learned that from somebody.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So yes, we have to Kind of fight for speed and fight for agility. Those are kind of really, really key things. And so I don't feel like I get to ever stop doing that all the time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Feel like it's relentless and you have to kind of keep doing it. The why behind it is we're so driven by mission. We have a vision for ever since God's word, everyone, everywhere, every day. That is so ridiculous.

[B]

Yeah, I'm going to stop and make sure, because people listen at 1.5 speed, so I don't want them to miss this. You just said we would like to get God's word to everyone, everywhere, every day. Why not think big?

[A]

I think you have to have an articulated vision that's so vastly bigger than your past or you'll be pulled out.

[B]

That's something I want to be a part of. That's. That's. That's worthy of the greatest investment I have is to. That's a big vision. Yeah.

[A]

And we know that, like, I mean, it's practically impossible. Right. To do what. To do that. But what that means, though, is that we have to give everything we have to it. Like, there's, like, we are going to get as much as we possibly can done against that vision, which is the driver of the why behind your question.

[B]

So what I want to do, Bobby, is I'm going to fast forward a bit to talk about now, because I think it's important. Then I'm gonna go back. And so I'm doing this on purpose. But right now, this is a leadership podcast, and we're here to help create leaders. We are people of faith. So we talk about that. There is. Across the globe, there's a spiritual hunger that's pretty unique in our. You know, we've done this together for 27, 28 years, and we haven't seen it like this. Global Bible sales are up. People reading the Bible are up. Can you tell me just a few current things that are happening in the YouVersion Bible app that we see? I want to hear about the current momentum, and then I want to go back and talk about how we got from a time we didn't have that to now. Sure, sure.

[A]

So it's exciting. This is like the most exciting time that we've been able to be a part of this ministry and what we're leading, both at the church and within youversion. What you just mentioned are some good examples. There's a global phenomenon going on right now with the Bible there. Gen Z is engaged in scripture in the most amazing way and going to church and going to church. We're seeing, like you said, print Bible sales up globally and at the same time we're seeing print Bible sales up. We are setting all time records for engagement in the Bible app.

[B]

So as of this recording right now, when would be have been like the biggest day of Bible engagement over the history of time?

[A]

I'll double check, but I think it was just a couple days ago on Sunday. I know the Sunday before that was the all time record.

[B]

Couple of days ago on Sunday.

[A]

I know for sure. We set a new record 10 days ago and it might, we might have set a new record. Wait for the data to come in from like two days ago. Eight of the top 10 all time biggest days on the Bible app have been in the last two months.

[B]

In the last two months, eight of.

[A]

The top 10, eight of the. And the two that are not in those eight are Easter from earlier this year. And the first, give me a couple.

[B]

Of random stats, like how often would the Bible be opened or shared? Just any kind of like, give me, give me some, some.

[A]

Yeah. So we see, we see the Bible app opened a billion times every 39 days.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So, and, and for us, that's a billion opportunities, right, for the power of God's word to change someone's life. I mean, and that's, that used to be 45 days. It keeps like getting lower and lower the number.

[B]

So, so the people downloading the Bible app, using the YouVersion Bible app, this is accelerating.

[A]

It's not slowing 100%. Yeah. We're going to celebrate this milestone of 1 billion. And it's, if you look back, we started a little over 17 years ago. Right now, the pace that we're on and the trajectory, we believe that we'll actually hit the second billion in five years.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

And the third billion in three years.

[B]

Okay, so someone's listening to this, going, okay, Bobby's a genius, he's perfect, he's amazing. Everything's always up in line.

[A]

I don't think people are thinking that.

[B]

Okay, I'm thinking that. But it would be easy to go, wow, this is just like an easy success story and it's just not. So part of the story behind the story is that we saw some real success early on and added some good people had some momentum. And then these are my words, not yours. But it kind of felt like we went on cruise control. There was enough wins to make it feel special, but not, not real momentum. And I remember kind of talking to you and it seemed like you were, you could have Gone one of two ways. You could have said, like, this is pretty good and we can just kind of ride it out, or you could have taken a different approach. And I don't want to put words on that time for you, but it was a very, like. It was a pivotal time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Talk to me about that.

[A]

So 2021, we were celebrating half a billion. And like, we typically do. We're not doing that this year, but back then, we would. Our celebrations were not the best because we. We would. I think we had a dinner for, like, 30 people on a Saturday night after church that was kind of our half a billion.

[B]

Yeah. But it's like a $25 plate dinner.

[A]

Big party. Yeah, it's a little. I mean, it's nicer. I mean, I think we did it, you know, upstairs in a room somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, we did it at the church upstairs.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So it. Step above a potluck.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But it was actually at that dinner that something had been. I've been wrestling with for months, honestly, which sort of culminated to a point, which is here we were celebrating a milestone, but, man, it really felt pretty hollow because the reality was, even though that was a big milestone, the growth rate had flattened. We were effectively just completely flat. Some met, some metrics were down a little bit, you know, year over year. So nothing about it, even though it was a milestone felt. It just didn't feel great. Right. Because it felt like I don't lead things. I don't want to lead things that don't grow.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I struggle to do that. And I felt like there was all kinds of excuses and all kinds of reasons why that could be the case. But in talking with you and also talking with another mentor of mine, he doesn't see me as frequently as you see me. And so he had heard me complaining kind of about the state of things. And he just said, you know, the last time we were talking, you were talking about the same thing. I was like, yeah. And he's like, so what are you going to do about it? I was like, well, of course. I mean, like, that's what every person needs to hear. He's a good friend. He's a good friend, you know? And the answer is, I didn't have at that time, a great answer. So I really began to think about, like, what needs to change. And you're right, one of the possible outcomes is that maybe my stewardship of this needs to change, like someone else needs to steward it.

[B]

Right. Because that happens sometimes.

[A]

Yeah, Sometimes it outgrows the leader outgrows me. And I felt like it outgrown me on the first weekend, to be honest.

[B]

You started it. Were you a good starter and not the one to take it from season three to four?

[A]

Did we lose something in that process or at least. Which is still a great story, a great thing to be a part of, and, you know, there's all kinds of.

[B]

No shame in that reason.

[A]

Know your place, I said, or. Or we needed to make some significant changes. It wasn't going to be like, small tweaks to it. And one of the things I didn't feel like we had done a good job of articulating a vision at the time that was so much bigger, like we just talked about. That was one problem. In fact, I remember people saying, how long till you get to a billion? And it almost became like a billion was the goal. Which, if you think about it, Every. Install past 500 million to a billion, your future is smaller than your past. You know, every. Every. If you're only thinking from a half billion to a billion, you're.

[B]

And if you think you're big, your future's small.

[A]

Yeah. So you're. So basically, you know, that was one of the problems that we didn't have that clearly articulated. But the second is, I don't. I didn't feel like we really understood the asset we were stewarding and the potential of it. And so I had to reframe it. When you. When you said, what do people say that it's worth? That came from that time frame. When I asked some Silicon Valley friends of mine that are venture capitalists, I said, what would you value this at if it was a business? We're not selling it, but I just wanted to know. And they said, oh, it'd be several billion dollars. That was at that time, so maybe it's worth more today.

[B]

But that was helpful.

[A]

It was helpful. The reason is I'm a business guy at heart in terms of what my background is, but framing it that way just helped me say, are we investing the right amount of resource into an asset that's worth several billion dollars? It's just one way of thinking about.

[B]

It and then the impact of it, which is, if we could get God's word to everyone, everywhere, every day, what would that be worth exactly?

[A]

And I was hearing language, even from people around me, of like, maybe it's a saturation point. I just thought, that's insane. There's no way that it's at a saturation point. I mean, the number of people that need the Bible, it's just kind of crazy to think that. So I also felt like we were pretty safe.

[B]

We were.

[A]

We had research.

[B]

I actually liked it being a little bit safe because we did. I didn't feel like we were pushing it financially beyond our comfort anymore. And I had done that for years and years. And so I didn't mind safe being.

[A]

I didn't want to be a burden to the church, you know, like I wanted to be. I mean, there's just all these tensions, you know, they're involved in. So. But it was to get to where we needed to be. I felt like one, we needed to invest a lot more in it. Like a whole, like an order of magnitude more than we had been investing before.

[B]

X times more.

[A]

Yes, several X times more. To be able to effectively steward a resource that's worth several billion dollars that would allow us to move at the pace we need to move and resource it correctly. The other thing is we needed to bring some new people to the team. We had a great team, but we were missing a lot of, I think, key leaders that could help us see what that scale looks like and have that experience. The thought at that time of recruiting the type of people I was talking about seemed like maybe impossible just because, you know, of what it moved to Oklahoma.

[B]

We don't pay what other.

[A]

All those variables are constraints to that. And then the resource side meant we were going to have to go and get new people engaged in giving to do it because it was going to push it outside of the limits of what just our church could do or just a couple of our key donors be able to do. And so we said, okay, what's that going to take? So that year was the first time ever, 2022, we stepped and also I needed to be fully committed to it. That's the other part I was missing.

[B]

And you had another full time job.

[A]

I had other responsibilities. And I kind of liked just being able to tell the story and being able to influence the direction of it, but I wasn't really operating in the CEO kind of capacity. And so I felt like the first thing I thought is we need to hire a CEO. That's the first thing I thought. But then I was quickly reminded by you and another friend, they're like, you need to be the CEO, the right person. Yeah. And I didn't. I was a reluctant CEO, but stepped into that. And then in that year we actually, with you know, your blessing and the leadership of the church, we actually stepped into a budget that we didn't know where the money was going. To come from for the first time in a while. Yeah. Since moments Brilliant. Since the very beginning, you know, we had got kind of lined up the resources before we even started the year to be able to do it, which took a big. Was a big step of faith. Absolutely. To do that. But it's. And, and I wish I could tell you that the first year went great, but we stepped right into that first year and it was like the hardest year.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, I mean, the numbers weren't moving the right direction. The people were super hard to find. I had all kinds of personal dynamics and attacks that were going on in the midst of that. And I knew that it was actually kind of confirmation we're stepping in the right direction because I knew that it was going to be hard. And if it wasn't hard, I'd been like, little concerned we hadn't take the right risk. And it was hard. It took about a year, but then we really started to see the momentum shift. And so we're seeing today just was it now, four years later, 4x the number of people downloading the Bible app on an annual basis. And we've seen the resources grow through just hundreds of thousands of people that are excited about supporting it grow to. It's almost 5x now, or it was at the time. So these are. I mean, the momentum we're talking about today has really come on the backside of a whole bunch of change. But I know that was. I didn't know how difficult it was going to be, but it's definitely been fruitful.

[B]

Yes, it has. And I want to go back again. When we met, I think our church, we were in a single location and had two services, maybe three. And fast forward to today. We've got a lot more of a complicated ministry. And same with you, Virgin. You started with zero staff members and now you're adding. As fast as you can, talk to me about how you grew in it. A lot of times, leaders, the organization will actually outgrow their ability. And you seem to have an innate ability to increase your capacity faster than the organization does. And you seem to be most of the time a step ahead. How do you do that?

[A]

It's a great question. First of all, I think that I think everybody has the ability to grow their capacity. One time I realized I had a group that came to visit our church. They were interviewing for a position at one of our campuses and we were driving down the road and at that time, I think we had eight campuses. And I was responsible for the experience, for how the worship and all that flows together was one of the responsibilities. And the person I was driving down the road, they said, at my church, I'm responsible for that at one location. And you're responsible for it at 8. And church is getting ready to start here in 15 minutes. And you don't seem very worried about it right now. And I'm nervous right now that the one I'm responsible for is not going well, right? They're like, how. How is that even possible? Like, to grow like that? And I just kind of thought about it for a minute. I said, well, we. We started with one, and then we went to two and went to two. We had to change some things, and I, you know, I had to grow. And they went to three. And then at some point, you know, it didn't become necessary for me to be there at every one, or any of them for that matter, for it to be successful. And I realized, like, when you look backwards in our lives, all of us can appreciate how we've grown, right? Like, you can look at say, oh, this thing was so hard for me to do before, and now it's like, trivial. It's like, not hard at all to do because I've just. I have gotten better, got better. I know how to do it. I've grown. What's interesting, though, is that very few people think about their capacity growing in the future. So if you think a lot of people say things like, man, I am at my limit. I'm like, there's water flowing over the edges. I couldn't possibly take on more.

[B]

And that's very common for.

[A]

So they presume their current capacity is their maximum capacity. Even though when you look backwards, you know that you've clearly grown. Everybody can see the growth, but we don't presume that we can grow in the future. And so what I found is, like, it's actually the planning for a future that's bigger that actually causes you to grow, like, helps you to grow. So the phrase that I. The statement I use, I always want a plan for a future that demands my growth. So powerful, meaning I cannot. I just don't want to plan for my current capacity, be my future capacity.

[B]

I want to restate what you said because it's super important. So we all look back and we see, obviously, I've grown, I can do more today, I've got a better capacity. But in their current state, we often feel stuck. I can't do anymore. This is too much. And we've often failed to project for personal growth in the future. Therefore, it limits our planning. And so what you're saying is you said it better than I can even restate it. But we always want to plan for a future that demands our personal growth. Yes, super powerful. So I just want people to think about that right now. If you feel like you're trapped, you're stuck, you don't have any more that you actually do. And by planning for more, that can be the very thing that is the catalyst to help you learn to grow. And sometimes it's not even just you getting better, it's more you delegating, more trusting more people around, and that frees you up to focus on the things that you're uniquely wired to do.

[A]

I have kind of a weird instinct, but when I'm feeling stretched, I add.

[B]

Talk to me about it.

[A]

I just. When I'm feeling like. And I'm not saying it's a healthy thing, but it does seem to work. When I'm feeling stretched, I actually add something. I take on something, you know, more. Not necessarily in the moment, but in the future. Like I commit something that's going to involve me doing more. And it really does force me to move off center on just the way I'm accomplishing what I'm accomplishing today.

[B]

It's crazy. I do remember you saying that one time, but I've never actually thought about my own strategy. And I think in some ways it's the same thing that when you are stressed sometimes if you're building a muscle, what do you do? You do one more rep, you take on a little extra and that. That it may break your muscle down at first, but then you tear up later. You do that in a lot of different ways. And I want to hear a little bit about. It was crazy. Is like you'll go off and go away for a weekend and you'll come back and be almost an expert in some new cryptocurrency. Okay. AI whatever it is, you absorb information really quickly. Talk to me about how you grow your brain.

[A]

I just like the. I'm stuck on the fact that you say I go away for a weekend. That's a.

[B]

Well, yeah. Well, okay. You go away for two days in the middle of the week. I know, but like, I literally. I don't see you for two days and you come back and you know a lot about something you didn't before.

[A]

I have. A long time ago, I met a guy. His name was Galen Robbins. He was a doctor and he just retired. Someone wanted to introduce me to him. He was a cardiologist and he Was very much like an innovator in his time. Did all these things, and he just wanted to meet me and wanted to talk. This is back when I was in business. And I remember going over to his house. He lived, like, in a really nice house in this country club, and just like you'd expect for a retired cardiologist that had dedicated his life to that. And he was. I come to his house, and he's got bags and stuff. He's obviously come trapped. He was traveling, and he was sort of not even settled into the house. And I said, you've been traveling? He's like, yeah. My wife and I, we spent the last two months or three months down in Dallas. What were you doing down Dallas? We got an apartment down there, and I was learning this new laser heart procedure. And so I was, like, a little bit confused my first time meeting him, and he's probably. I mean, he's probably 80 years old. I don't know exactly how old he was, but something around there. I said, I thought you retired, Dr. Robbins. And he's like, well, yeah, no, I retired. I don't plan to ever do the surgery. I just wanted to learn about it. And I was just processing this. I said, so the first thing this guy does after he retires is he leaves his country clubhouse, he goes into an apartment for, like, two or three months so he can learn a procedure that he's never going to perform. And I was just sitting there at the moment, just dumbfounded, But I thought to myself, I was like, I want to be like that. I want to be a lifetime learner. I want to challenge myself to keep learning even when I'm. Whatever done or whatever that means, you know, at the time. So I've just always inspired me. And. And so my. Both my wife and I are that way. We want to challenge ourselves to learn something new. That's what got me into flying.

[B]

Yeah. Meet new people, see new places. Yeah. And you, in a short period of time, you became an accomplished pilot flying how many different airplanes? I've flown like 58, I think 58 airplanes, helicopter. Land on water, land on. Land on the moon, Wherever you can land, you can land.

[A]

Yeah, it's a good challenge, but, yeah, and I try to do that also. I think my styles, I kind of go deep dive on learning. So when I'm interested in something, I kind of binge learn a little bit. Where I'll spend all my free time for a short period of time sort of focused on one topic. I find that to be super helpful. Too.

[B]

Yeah. I want to just be real sincere and tell you, like, thank you for a million things. And so for your friendship over the years, it's been, you know, incredibly special. And, you know, like, you would literally, like, carry my bag for me, and when the truth. Happy to. Yeah. And you did. And so every now and then, I get to do it for you. And it makes me so happy because I get to go somewhere.

[A]

I'm never gonna let you carry my bag.

[B]

Yeah, I did in California one time, and it was so much fun. So it's just. It's. It's. It's special. But, like, you have made me, so You've helped me think bigger, and you've helped me grow, and you've helped me be way more generous, and you've helped me. I'm a better. I'm a better person because I'm around you. And so I just. I want to say thank you for that and then also just say to our community is, like, you want to find your own version of a Bobby and your talent and just be close to him. You know, the old saying is, show me your friends, I'll show you your future. Hanging around great people helps you to have a great future and great impact. So thank you. Just say it.

[A]

Well, I know it's your podcast. Do I get to say thank you?

[B]

Yeah. No.

[A]

Yeah, I do.

[B]

But I'm gonna do a little magic trick here just for fun. So our team created. More people are listening than watching, but I'm about to say something, and the screen's gonna change because they're excited about it. So I'm setting you up, so don't miss the queue. The screen's about to change. We have something in the month of November that I think was kind of born out of your heart. And we call it Global Bible Month now. And the screen just changed. It's Global Bible Month.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Amazing, right?

[A]

Technology.

[B]

That was pretty good. We could change it back, but we don't have to. So tell me, what is Global Bible Month?

[A]

Yeah, so I mentioned earlier that we were bad at celebrating milestones. I felt like we'd be remiss when we had this milestone of a billion coming up, partly because, as you mentioned, it's accelerating. We initially thought we'd hit the milestone in 2027, then 2020, and now we're hitting it in 2025. I feel like this is an opportunity for us to celebrate the Bible and to kind of go big with the celebration of this milestone. So put out a vision for several things. One is an event that we're doing to celebrate the Bible. We're going to broadcast on tv, broadcast in the app. We're doing that. We are lighting up Times Square with the sphere in Las Vegas. Yeah, we're just basically trying to make the Bible sell, like show people that the Bible's alive.

[B]

Yes. You're not just celebrating your version of Bible app, you're celebrating the Bible.

[A]

The Bible. And so we're just one data point, right. Among many data points like we talked about earlier, that God's doing something special with the Bible. And so then we went and decided we would just declare that November is Global Bible Month.

[B]

Just declare it.

[A]

Declare it? Yes. Why not? You know, and not because it started saying it. Not just because of the milestone, but we thought this is just a good time for us to bring focus to the Bible. And we're challenging people to a 30 day challenge to read the Bible for 30 days in November. And so we've got influencers, we've got celebrities, we've got pastors, church leaders, people from all over the world that are passionate about the Bible, that are celebrating this. Amazon prime is celebrating Global Bible Month.

[B]

So you declared it. Now Amazon prime is celebrating Global Bible Month.

[A]

Everybody's catching it. Right. And this will hopefully be something we do annually. Not just something that's tied around this milestone, but it's just an opportunity to kind of remind people about the power of God's word. And if you have tried everything else, you might just try reading the Bible for 30 days straight and just see what happens.

[B]

See what happens?

[A]

Yeah. You've tried everything else. Why not try that? And it could be anything from reading the proverb every day or reading through the New Testament in 30 days. We've got lots of Bible plans, we've got other apps that are doing it, Hallow and Glorify and other apps that are joining this Global bible month and 30 day challenge. So this is not about us. This is really about the Bible. But we're super pumped, super excited to see what God does with it.

[B]

Right. So if someone did get the youversion Bible out, they could download it for free or any paper Bible, any app they want to. Ours would have a bazillion different versions of the Bible plans on everything possible from anxiety, depression, marriage, getting closer to Jesus through the Bible, through the New Testament, anything. And so you're challenging people for 30 days. I will say that on a personal note, the story behind my story is that I grew up going to church but didn't have a relationship with God. And in college at a real low time, a gentleman from the organization known as the Gideons gave me a free Bible. And it was reading the Bible that my life was changed. And so you can only imagine to be sitting next to you. And it's been our church, along with partners from around the world that have been able to give away now almost this month, a billion free devices. And so the kid that was changed by reading the Bible now gets to be next to the guy that declared Global Bible Month. Just declared it. And see people taking part in God's word. So kind of final question is like personally, what does this mean to you? Well.

[A]

Anything like this, just honestly the fact that I get to wake up every day and do what God created me to do is humbling. It's what I want for every single person that's listening to this is that they could be doing what God designed them to do, where he designed them to do it.

[B]

And, and it doesn't always feel like you're in the right place at the right time, but sometimes there's something happening in that season that's preparing you for the next season.

[A]

100 yeah. So that's just what I. But I feel like I get the privilege of doing that every single day when I wake up. And, and so my goal is like God, what do you want me today and what do you want me doing today? And if I'm where he wants me, what he has me doing, whether whatever that might be, in my case, it's here in the church doing the thing, this unique kind of calling and leading this ministry with youversion. Yeah, it's like a huge privilege. So how do I feel? I feel pretty humbled because it's a complete God story, there's no question about it. And I am going to say thank you to you whether you want me to or not because I'm grateful I get to be under your leadership.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I mean you are the frickin guru of leadership in terms of just being able to teach the whole world.

[B]

Thank you. Frickin's not a bad word by the way.

[A]

Yeah, I know, I know. It's just you basically are the best person in the entire world to even listen to about leadership. The fact that I get to spend all day with you and get to be your friend is the most life changing thing.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And you're my pastor.

[B]

Well, a lot of what I say is something you said and I just put it in a tweetable way to say it.

[A]

That is not true. And so I'm grateful to be able and blessed to be able to. My family's blessed to be a part of it. And so there's just. I also want to just say, while we're humbled by it, there's so much more.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

There's so much more that God wants to do. And we're propelled by this. This is kind of not. Not a milestone that we're limping over. This is a milestone that we are.

[B]

We're striding over you and called beyond a billion.

[A]

Right. This is all about what's next. And we're very, very excited about the future. So thank you for investing in me and thank you for believing this. You were. You were a kid that got a free Bible, that God changed your life through a free Bible, and now you get to lead the organization that. That gets to give that away.

[B]

And so it's pretty amazing. It's special. And I praise God that he brought you here and for your friendship and to our community. Let me talk to you just personally for a minute and hope that you're inspired by this, because, like, I genuinely am. If you feel stuck right now, let me just remind you that Scripture actually says that you have everything you need for life and Godliness, that you have what you need to do, what you're called to do. And so if you feel stuck, just kind of look back, like Bobby said, and recognize how much you've grown and how far you've come. And so instead of saying, I'm stuck and I can't do anymore, project for a future that actually demands your growth. And if you do take on a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more, that actually sparks something in you that says, I actually do have a greater capacity. And I hope that you're inspired by listening to this story, because the truth of the matter is, many of you, I think we have a very exceptional listening community, a very exceptional group of leaders. You've all done a lot, but let's not be settled for what we've done. Let's not think, oh, man, we're big. We're successful. The moment you think you're big, you start to get slow. The moment you think you get you're big, your future gets smaller. One of the things we say here is that we reject the label megachurch. Other people may say we're a really big church, but when we look out at all the people that need life, spiritual life in Christ, there are so many more out there. So we're not going to define ourselves as big if you're big or slow if you're big. You're. You're not passionate about the future. So we're just a startup. We're just getting started. Whatever you're doing right now, you're just getting started. The best is yet to come. So have faith. Declare it. Declare the app is coming. Declare it's Global Bible Month. Declare something crazy and watch God meet you in your faith, help you grow, bring the right people, and do something special. I believe it got better today. And we know that everyone wins when the leader gets better.