Joni Eareckson Tada (3:12)

You know, already this morning, just came with you. You know, you were talking about perseverance, and I was thinking of that verse in Matthew 24:13 where Jesus says, he who endures to the end will be saved.

Francis Chan (3:25)

Amen.

Joni Eareckson Tada (3:29)

The end could be five years, ten years. Who knows? But God help me endure.

Francis Chan (3:35)

Amen.

Joni Eareckson Tada (3:36)

Amen. And all of us, right?

Francis Chan (3:38)

Yeah. And I believe you've imparted so much to me, and that's where I feel like, gosh, I have so many friends, and I want them to understand your story, understand what God's done for you, but really, just to meet you, because there is something you impart. It's not just information. That's the thing that I see in Romans, because Paul wrote this whole letter, 16 chapters of Rich, beautiful theology. But he goes, but I can't wait till I'm with you, because that's when I'm going to impart something spiritual. And I believe in your soul, just by your joy and love for Jesus, there's an impartation.

Joni Eareckson Tada (4:20)

I pray.

Francis Chan (4:20)

So, yes.

Joni Eareckson Tada (4:21)

I don't want my suffering to be wasted, Francis. And it encourages me that, you know, you or others might be lifted up by my example. But I tell you what, it's a. I have to fight for my joy. And, you know, you had a chapter in your book, Spiritual Entropy, and that is so like our faith. It fritters away, it falls away. It becomes unscrewed. You know, a bolt falls here and a nut. And before you know it, the whole. The whole thing is kind of falling apart. And so that's why almost every night when Ken puts me to bed, which involves a lymphatic sleeve and an external ventilator and a mask over my mouth and pillows behind me, and he. My catheter has to be coiled after nebulizing, okay. It puts up the guards rail to my hospital bed. Are you okay? And in between all this stuff that's on me, I say pray that my faith not fail, you know, because it's hard. I mean, like I said, it's a fight, but it's a good fight. But it's hard. And maybe that's something. I don't know. In our culture of comfort, we forget, as Christians, life is supposed to be difficult because it's a broken world and we have to fight.

Francis Chan (5:48)

That's right.

Joni Eareckson Tada (5:49)

But the Holy Spirit, once we partner with him, he is such a willing God, you know, just give him an inch. He takes 10,000 miles and fills us with his Joy and his enablement and grace.

Francis Chan (6:03)

Amen. Now, I think some of the people watching this don't know your story, so I hate to make it go all the way back to the beginning.

Joni Eareckson Tada (6:14)

I'm coming up on almost 60 years of being in this wheelchair. I was a young teen teenager in the 60s and reckless, know it all, 17 year old, and I took a ridiculously stupid dive into shallow water. And immediately my head crunched, sand, snapped head back, smashed my spinal cord. And I am in an instant, floating face down in the water of a quadriplegic. And I don't know how to describe it, but I was able to hold my breath. And in those underwater acoustics, I could hear my sister at a distance. But I knew that she had had her back turned to me and a crab bit her toe. She quickly turned around in the water to scream to me to watch out for crabs. But that's when she saw I was in danger, floating face down. What are the odds of a little crab being right where he needs to be at just the instant somebody else needs to be rescued? And so, God, from his sovereign goodness, from the very beginning, my sister pulled me up out of the water. They rushed me to the hospital. And after about seven, eight, ten months, my occupational therapist had me in therapy. And she knew I was an artist. And I had been practicing a bit with my pencil in my mouth. And she said, draw something. Draw what's in your heart. And so right behind your shoulder is what I drew.

Francis Chan (7:46)

Wow.

Joni Eareckson Tada (7:47)

And my thought was, oh, God, how could you allow this to happen? What am I going to do? I can't do this. And that was 60 years ago. And honestly, Francis, every morning, I can't do it. I have to confess, I'm that weak. And I say, jesus, I can't do quadriplegia today, but I can do all things through you as you strengthen me. Praise God for the disability, for the paralysis, for the quadriplegia, for the fact that hands don't work and feet don't walk. Because it's what keeps me needing Jesus so badly and so happily. And he is more than abundant to help me smile. I borrow his smile every morning and he gives it. It's amazing. It's just amazing. He's so good.

Francis Chan (8:48)

Amazing what he's done through you. I mean, praise God, now there are people listening that they're hearing your story, and yet they find themselves dealing with, I just want to give up. And they know it's a much lesser thing than what they're having to deal with. Now, what would you say to those people?

Joni Eareckson Tada (9:10)

To Christians?

Francis Chan (9:10)

Yeah, to Christians who just feel like, I don't know if I can take this anymore because I'm seeing people take their lives like never before. It just seems like it's becoming more and more common. They just. They don't understand the suffering. Things get so difficult, and they just feel like maybe if I just end it, it'll be better. What would you say to someone like that?

Joni Eareckson Tada (9:36)

Well, first I would say, I understand.

Francis Chan (9:38)

Yes.

Joni Eareckson Tada (9:39)

Because I wanted to give up.

Francis Chan (9:40)

I remember that.

Joni Eareckson Tada (9:41)

But from the very beginning, I think all of us as believers need to understand that if we want to know Christ, and certainly that's why we become Christians. We want to know Christ. We want to know Him. Okay, so then Philippians 3, verses 8 and 10 tell us how to know Him. Because Paul says, I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection. Yeah, bring it on. And the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death. And we look at that. There's a couple of verses, and, you know, we read them, so we just gloss over them. We skate over them. We think of them as theory or some sort of academic statement that's really cool to put on as your screen Savior on your computer or a plaque on your wall. We forget that if we want to know Christ, he will. He will invite us into the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings. And I think that too many times when we're young in Christ, we are either not told or we forget that. It's going to be hard. You're going to have to make tough choices every day, but the Holy Spirit is right there every morning, like he is with me, ready to partner with you in your own sanctification, in your own becoming, set apart for his glory. And we forget that. So we want to know Christ, but we forget that if we do really want to know him, it'll mean suffering. It'll mean some very hard times. And I think people aren't prepared for that.

Francis Chan (11:24)

Yeah. Yeah.

Joni Eareckson Tada (11:26)

So maybe that's partly the reason there's a falling away.

Francis Chan (11:31)

Yeah. I was gonna ask, like, because we've both seen people fall away, and then we've seen a few persevere. Like, what do you see? Like, the commonalities of those who persevere versus maybe those who just fall away. And don't they just give up the commonality? Yeah. Like, what is there? Are there certain things you've seen people do that? Gosh, I mean, yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Joni Eareckson Tada (12:04)

Well, the commonality is. Both groups know, let's say a verse like Philippians 3, verses, 8 to 10. They both know that I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection, fellowship in his suffering, becoming like his death. We all know that. But one group looks at it very academically. One group memorizes it and plasters it on a poster on their wall. The other group digs down deep and gets ready to partner with the Holy Spirit every single morning in their own sanctification. Which means getting rid of doubts, pushing away fears, and saying, holy Spirit, I cannot do this. But you can. You're the Spirit of Jesus, so help me. You know, I mean, we give up too easy. We give up too easy. And like I said, it's a fight. Paul ran a race and he finished it, but it's a race. And midstream, you're gonna be needing a second wind. Well, at that point, don't give up. Just take a deep breath of the Holy Spirit's empowerment and start. This is my advice. Start building a repository of God's word in your heart. Last night, Frances was really hot. My husband and I. My helper couldn't show up. She was sick. My other helper couldn't come, and we were left. Okay. We got to do all this. Oxygen, urinary tract, irrigating leg bags, cleaning, urological equipment, nebulizing chest, percussion therapy, lymphatic sleeve. I mean, it was a mess. And Ken, he's 79, and it was hard, and he kept having to sit down and. And I just felt like such a burden. And I said in that instant, as soon as I started, that's a satanic lie.

Francis Chan (14:12)

Jesus, I am a child of God.

Joni Eareckson Tada (14:15)

My citizenship is in heaven. My name is written in the Lamb's book of life. You promised to give me strength in my weakness. You are my ever present help in this trouble. You will never leave me nor forsake me. There's a plan, there's a purpose. You got to do that constantly. But you can't do it unless you have a repository of scripture from which to draw. You know, God's word, his promises. That'll see you through.

Francis Chan (14:46)

Wow.

Joni Eareckson Tada (14:48)

It's a good fight though, isn't it?

Francis Chan (14:49)

Yes, it is. There's really no choice.

Joni Eareckson Tada (14:54)

No.

Francis Chan (14:54)

In my mind, I just go. I don't think I could ever walk away from him. I don't see. I know the temptations there, but in my heart, I go. I just don't know where I'd go or what I would do every day. Would Be so empty.

Joni Eareckson Tada (15:10)

Thank you, Jesus. Oh, yeah. I sing my way through suffering half the time because he makes me so happy. I think the deeper you dig down into that verse, Philippians 3, 8, 10. The deeper you dig down into your suffering, the richer, the more. I don't know, buoyant and the more delectable is his person. It's his life. You enjoy him. And it's crazy to think that his love is that big. You mentioned Romans 5: somewhere in one of the videos where, you know, suffering produces perseverance, and I'm still persevering. Perseverance produces hope, and, oh, I've got a lively hope of heaven. Whew. Can't wait. And hope produces this incredible release of the outpouring of God's love into our hearts and then out to others. I think that's half our joy in him. That's my joy, is not keeping it to myself, but telling the next quadriplegic. Let me give you an idea of what Jesus can do in your life.

Francis Chan (16:30)

You know, Peter talks about the joy inexpressible and full of glory. I don't know. Sometimes I get not discouraged, but almost like I'm not seeing this joy inexpressible in so many that call themselves believers. And sometimes I don't know how to get them there because I'm like, no, it's. Don't you get alone with God and just go, I am so full. And they're like, no, no. Like, what would you say? Because that is something I've always seen in you, is somehow there is this joy of the Lord, and it's consistent, it perseveres, it endures. Like, what would you say to the person that they know they're not known as a joyful person, and they just. They almost feel like that's for someone else. What would you say to that person?

Joni Eareckson Tada (17:33)

Well, you mentioned first Peter 1:8, the joy inexpressible. Well, right before that, like two or three verses before that, it's all about trials, it's all about persecution, it's all about tough times. And then he then celebrates the joy that he knows can be theirs. And to those who are scattered abroad and being persecuted. So the reality is, if you're discouraged, welcome to the club. It's not all that unusual. But then before you let that discouragement begin to corrode your faith and eat away at your joy, you turn to Jesus. You look upon Jesus, Hebrews chapter 12, verse 3. You consider him who faced such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not Become weary or fainthearted. And discouragement, I think, is a byproduct of weariness and faintheartedness. And you look to Jesus. I mean, look what he did on the cross for us. Contemplate on that. Think about it. Meditate on it. You mentioned meditate many times. And beloved, I mean, right there on the cross was like the Mount Everest of mercy, God's mercy. He was never more like God than at the cross. It was the epitome of who he is and how beautiful he is and his gracefulness and his love toward us. So as Hebrews 12:3 says, we consider him, we look to him. Consider means chew on this, you know, meditate on that and ask the Holy Spirit. This is what I do all the time. Because there's so much to Jesus that can be known. I asked the Holy Spirit today. Peel back a few more layers on what the Lord Jesus did on the cross for me. Just. Just peel those layers back. I want to see more. I want to know more. Because, Francis, there's the source of the joy. The joy is in Christ. It's the joy of the Lord. And that's why we can rejoice in the Lord. I rejoice because of that. Because in the Lord, what he's done. Oh, Jesus, you're so good. And then I get so excited about partnering with the Holy Spirit. Okay, let's get going. Get me out of this discouragement, get me out of this slump and move me forward, please, because I leak a lot because of my quadriplegia. I can leak my joy, and I just am always wanting more. I want him to fill me up quicker than I'm leaking out.

Francis Chan (20:17)

Well, I did write some questions. I feel like you've answered just about all of them.

Joni Eareckson Tada (20:22)

Oh, what else can we talk about then?

Francis Chan (20:26)

Well, I do want to talk about this quote you said. To find Jesus in your hell is ecstasy beyond compare. And I wouldn't trade it for any amount of walking in this world. Can you just unpack that?

Joni Eareckson Tada (20:45)

I remember the first time I felt that Ken was bringing me home from the chemo clinic. It was my second battle with the stage three cancer. And my lungs were hurting and my head was pounding and my stomach was sick and I was paralyzed. I just felt awful. But yet there was the Lord Jesus. And I felt as though he was standing by me. The Lord stood by me through that. So as we've gone down the freeway back home, we're talking about how sufferings like little splashovers of hell, giving us a tiny little taste of the real Hell from which we've been redeemed because of Jesus. So we pulled up in the driveway and turned off the ignition. And we sat there for many long moments. Okay, so that splashover of hell then. What's a splashover of happened is that those easy breezy, bright moments where everything's fun and fine, no problems, all is good. I think a splash of heaven is finding Jesus in your hell. Because if we want to get to really know him, he will invite us into that inner sanctum of sharing in his suffering. I remember one night, Francis, I was. I was in such pain in bed. And I did not have heart to wake Ken up another time to help adjust my pillows or turn my hip or lift my shoulder. I just laid there. And it was the middle of the night, 2am I can't cry out anyway through the ventilator. And so I imagine that I was entering this furnace, this hotel fiery furnace of the kind that Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego entered. And I just said, pain, you're not going to win here. The Bible promises in Second Corinthians, chapter 4, verse. Chapter Second Corinthians, chapter 4, verse 8, that although I am hard pressed on all sides, I'm not crushed. You cannot and you will not crush me. And so I started to slowly enter that. That fiery furnace and quoting scriptures and promises and not knowing what to expect. And I honestly, in the middle of the night, 2:30am I felt Jesus right there with me. It was as though I was in the middle of that furnace with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. And there's Jesus. And I don't know how to describe it other than to say, I guess I took. I looked head on into the stern countenance of my suffering. And I entered into it, unafraid, into the very darkest recesses of it. And in the middle of that darkness, suddenly there's a light. Because Jesus has been there before me. And he's transfigured that place of terror into a house of life and of prayer and of. And the very gates of heaven. And it was just exactly how I felt. Jesus, you're so beautiful. Thank you. The pain did not go away. It did not go away. But for some reason, he gave me miraculously this increased ability to endure it and to abide in him in the midst of it. And to me, that was as big a miracle as being jumping out of this wheelchair. And I lingered with them until morning. And it was the sweetest night. So sweet. But I'm so Grateful I had that wellspring of truth, Bible truth, on which to draw. It's just wonderful.

Francis Chan (24:45)

So amazing. Let's talk about the enemy for a short period of time. Like how, how has he tried to impact you?

Joni Eareckson Tada (25:01)

I think discouragement. Discouragement, discouragement. When my pain becomes such that. Like that night and when a helper who was so critical. So they're so much, they're so needed in my life, not just for me, but for, you know, all the families we serve at Johnny and Friends and, and when one doesn't show up and I'm sitting there and. Okay, it's pretty hard. I remember one time I came out of the hospital, this was just two years ago. And you can see how I've got good shoulder muscles on this arm. Well, this arm's. I've lost it. Something happened in the hospital that I just can't. I can get it up, but I can't feed myself like I used to. I mean, for 58 years I've been able to feed myself with this right arm and now I can't. And that was a, that was really discouraging for about seven hours. And then I said, God, you got to do this with discouragement. Lord God, I believe you. I'm not going to believe my feelings. I'm going to trust in you. You tell me in Psalm 57 there's a plan. You'll not abandon the works of your hand. There is a Romans 8:28 plan here. What is it? And I got the idea, why not ask a neighbor to come and feed me dinner and then I have a chance to let her serve and I can bless her hands. She feels good, I feel blessed. And so that was a wonderful. This, this arm that's now broken. God taught me a wonderful lesson about service and how to, you know. But that's more important. Having her feed me is more important. Having her see evidence of Christ in my life, that's more important than having the ability to feed myself. So.

Francis Chan (27:04)

And I will say, like, I remember feeding you one time.

Joni Eareckson Tada (27:09)

Yes.

Francis Chan (27:09)

And it is, it's like this joy of, like this honor. Like, wow, I get to feed John Lehigh. So it's like these memorable events for us. So it's zero burden in that case. And it's a memorable life changing event.

Joni Eareckson Tada (27:28)

You know, we were talking about finding joy earlier and I would ask some of our friends who are watching. We run retreats for families dealing with disability 68 last year across the United States and more this year. And we need volunteers to come and help feed those Children hold their cafeteria trays, hold their Bibles during worship time, and just push them around the campus, have fun with them. And we need volunteers to serve like you did. And the joy that you get when you. When you get your focus off yourself and put it on others.

Francis Chan (28:07)

Yeah. You just have to think of, okay, this is Jesus.

Joni Eareckson Tada (28:11)

Yeah.

Francis Chan (28:12)

Whatever I do for the least of these, like, would I feed Jesus? Yes, of course you would. I would be thrilled if you just, like, I was thrilled to feed you. It's just. It's. It's one and the same.

Joni Eareckson Tada (28:23)

Like when he was on the cross and he said, I thirst. What? One of us wouldn't have rushed back to Jerusalem, gotten a nice cold lemonade or something, or got a hose, a bucket of water. What? One of us wouldn't have moved heaven and earth to quench his thirst. I mean, we would have been right there at it.

Francis Chan (28:41)

Yeah.

Joni Eareckson Tada (28:42)

So we can do that now. We could still give him that drink today by serving others the least of the brethren that he says in Matthew 25.

Francis Chan (28:51)

So how would you say, you know, like, the example of people feeding you, helping you? Like, how has the body of Christ helped you through discouragement?

Joni Eareckson Tada (29:01)

Well, let me just say something about the body of Christ. You know, in churches, we. We want so much to construct community. Small groups, Bible studies, college career groups. We really want people to get into the Word. And sometimes it can feel a little organized. I don't know how to say it. Yeah, yeah, just a little organized. And we're longing for community. Why don't I feel community in this small group? Well, community occurs organically around weakness. And that's why in First Corinthians 12, I think it says, the weaker members are indispensable. Why? Because their need moves the hearts of people, and they help in some degree, great or small, they help meet that need. And when they meet that need, they experience that joy that you were talking about. And that joy is what helps form organically, this sense of community. And community always grows organically around weakness. So if we want God's power to be released in our churches, then reach out to those who are marginalized. Bring them on in. Jesus says in Luke 14, go out and find the disabled, the lame, the blind, the poor. Bring them in. Because it's those people and their weaknesses around whom the rest of the congregation can. Oh, I can help meet that need. Oh, I can run errands for you. If you have to take your child to physical therapy. Oh, I'll be happy to do shopping. Oh, let me learn your Child's routine so you and your husband can get a break. I love to do that. And before you know it, there's community. And it always happens naturally, organically, and I love that. Nothing forced about it.

Francis Chan (31:15)

So, I mean, you wrote about heaven, your anticipation of heaven. How does it. I don't know. I just feel like when people hear the word heaven, believers, it's like theoretical, theological, but it's not. It doesn't fill them with this hope and this joy and true emotional intelligence. Anticipation.

Joni Eareckson Tada (31:40)

Yeah.

Francis Chan (31:40)

Like how? I don't know. How do you help people make that switch?

Joni Eareckson Tada (31:44)

It's really the bottom line, isn't it?

Francis Chan (31:46)

Yeah.

Joni Eareckson Tada (31:46)

For all that we are and all that we do, and when we think of this brief wisp of smoke that we are, this. Hardly a blip on the eternal screen. Our lives are so short on this earth, and yet everything we do down here on earth has a direct bearing on our capacity for joy and worship and service in heaven. I'm not talking about salvation, but I'm talking about living out your life through service. It's emptying yourself in order to lift somebody else up. And every time we do that here on Earth, we're increasing our eternal capacity for joy and worship and service. So I look at every little drastic obedience down here on Earth as an opportunity to expand my eternal estate. And so I don't want to diminish that. I don't want to jeopardize that. I don't want to minimize it. I want to do everything I can to increase it, because it will ultimately mean more glory to the Lord Jesus Christ, in which I can have a small share, and that is huge. So maybe people, maybe Christians, we don't think about heaven because we just think that this parade of life is going to go on forever. But it won't. There will be an end. There will be an accounting. There will be a judgment seat of rewards. We'll be judged for our sins, but for what we did. You know, when I think of heaven, I always think of that song, Bringing in the sheaves Bringing in the sheaves we shall come rejoicing Bringing in the sheaves. That's from Psalm. I think it's 126. Where we will sow in tears, but reap with joy. And I've sown in tears and I can't wait to reap with joy and have all these precious people with disabilities around the world that we reach for Joni and friends to come to Christ. That's one way I look at heaven. And oh, what A glory to just meet Jesus and say, thank you, Jesus. You were the one whose grace sustained me all those years. Did you hear that, everybody? Here's the one who sustained me all those years on Earth when I was in my wheelchair. He helped me smile. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you. And sometimes, Francis, and forgive me for going on about this, but sometimes I think of having. Like. Like. Okay, this is how I picture it. This is how I picture my arrival. I don't. I don't know if it won't happen like this, but it's how I picture it. I feel like this whole life, most of my life, has been a marathon. A very difficult, painful marathon. And I'm chugging and I'm moving forward. I'm keeping the faith. I'm running the race with perseverance. I'm fighting the good fight. I am almost near the finish line. Bang. I'm at the finish line. I drop on my hands and knees to celestial, celestial sand on the shore. I made it. I made it. Oh, thank you, Jesus. And then I'll collapse on my back on the sand, eyes shut, arms spread. And I'll just be basking. And then suddenly I'll feel a shadow over my face. And I'll look, open my eyes, and it's Jesus. And he'll pick me up and he'll hold me and pat me real hard on the back and say, there, there, sweetheart. It's over. It's over. Your home now. Everything's okay. And I will just fall to his feet and not even brush off the sand. I'll just kiss those feet. Thank you, Jesus, for walking the path with me. You know, God with us. He journeyed with me, Emmanuel, all the way. And then we'll have a big party. You want to dance with me, Francis?

Francis Chan (36:01)

Yes. I will dance with you.

Joni Eareckson Tada (36:01)

Dance with me, Francis. That'll be such fun. I can't wait. Oh, gosh.

Francis Chan (36:07)

Thank you so much.

Joni Eareckson Tada (36:09)

Isn't Jesus wonderful?

Francis Chan (36:11)

He is. He is. Could you just pray for people that are watching this? Just whatever is on your heart. I mean, just. I believe so much that we can come before his throne of grace and that something real happens if we sincerely come before his throne right now. Would you just pray?

Joni Eareckson Tada (36:34)

I will. Because I bet there's some who are watching who may be Christians, but their love is cold.

Francis Chan (36:40)

Yes.

Joni Eareckson Tada (36:41)

Or there's some who don't know Jesus and they're wondering what it's all about. Well, I tell you, sin kills. Doubts, fears, worries, lusts, anger, hate. All of it kills. Sin kills. And hell is Real, that's for sure. But, oh, God is so merciful and his kingdom can change us. And Jesus is the way. So let's pray. Oh, Lord Jesus, I believe that right now you're. You're whispering into the heart of those who are watching, who are struggling, who are wondering, who still have questions. Help them to see. Help us to see. Open the eyes of our hearts that we might see the glorious riches that you have in store for us here on earth and that glorious eternity, that wonderful story that's about to begin, the real story of our lives, Father. Help us to see that. Help us to see the cross, Jesus, to see what you did there. That it provides everything. Not only grace to say, but grace to sustain and shape our lives. And so, Father, I pray for my friend watching now that you will give them saving faith. Yes, saving faith. All it means is just putting your sins at the foot of the cross, reaching up and grabbing the hand of Jesus and moving forward into your life by faith. Give them saving faith and a spirit of repentance to turn from the old way and turn to the new. The fresh, the life, the hope, the joy, the peace, the patience, everything that brings such joy in life. So I pray for our friend that they'll rise to a new level of confidence in you and trust in your word. And then, Father, tomorrow morning, if people are struggling, I pray that when they open their eyes, they will confess. I can't do this. But, Jesus, I can do all things, even this day, through you, as you strengthen me. And then I pray that they'll get up, dressed, have breakfast, tighten their tie, put on their jeans, whatever, walk out into the world and find somebody else to tell this message to, to somebody else to serve whose needs are greater than their own. We pray that, Lord Jesus, in your precious name, the matchless name, the. The preeminent, the. The glorious name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Francis Chan (39:24)

Amen.

Joni Eareckson Tada (39:25)

Amen.

Francis Chan (39:26)

Amen.

Joni Eareckson Tada (39:26)

Oh, Francis, what a glorious time. You gotta hug me, hug me, hug me, hug me, hug me. I'm a real pat, pat on the back real far, pal. That's it. Good. Nice and hard. I love that. Oh, I love it.

Francis Chan (39:38)

Love you, Johnny.

Joni Eareckson Tada (39:39)

I love you, too.

Podcast Host (39:42)

Thanks for listening to the Crazy Love podcast. If today's conversation encouraged you, we'd love if you share it with someone who needs hope. And if you want to dive deeper into the message behind this episode, Francis new book Beloved, is available now wherever books are sold. For more information, go to crazylove.org/beloved.