B (9:04)

I'm talking to you.

A (9:05)

Yeah.

B (9:05)

The verse I have been thinking of as you're talking is, it's so simple, but we miss it. So seek first his kingdom and all these things will be added unto you. And what we do is, we seek first the good marriage, or we seek first to be an awesome mom or dad, instead of seeking first his kingdom and believing that out of that pursuit, our marriage, our parenting, our ministry, everything will come from that one focus and that one pursuit to seek first his kingdom. And then I just think of a broad verse. We all know it, like Colossians 3:23, whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Whatever you do, whether you're eating, you're drinking, you're being married, you're trying to parent, whatever you're doing, do it all for the glory of God. And I just want to ask you, like, when is the last time you even thought about, am I being married? Am I in this marriage for the glory of God? Or have I somehow forgotten that goal, that whatever I'm doing, it's for his glory? It's not about me. It's not about him. When is the last time you really stopped and thought about that? Because I read an interesting quote from a friend of ours and she made my mind think a little differently when she used the phrase, God's glory is at stake. And you can fill in the blank afterward. God's glory is at stake in how you respond to this situation. God's glory is at stake. How you work in your workplace and what kind of reputation you have. God's glory is at stake in your marriage and how you interact with your husband and how you respond to his leadership and how you choose to love and serve him. God's glory is at stake. And somehow that really raises the bar, right? And yet again, we forget and we make everything. So just. What do you call this? Lateral rather than vertical?

A (11:22)

Horizontal? Horizontal. You were going well, too.

B (11:31)

Oh, he and my older daughters always make fun of Me, because I'm just. I have a lot of brain hemorrhages. I'm not that smart. But what I'm trying to say is we make everything very horizontal rather than vertical. Everything becomes. This focus is so off. And I want to read you this quote from our friend. It's Joni Eareckson. Tada. Some of you who are older probably have known her story. She was a quadriplegic. She's been a quadriplegic for 40 something years now. She's in her 60s. But she says, I realized that the stakes were far greater, far more immense and cosmic than merely my satisfaction with a wheelchair and its unpleasant baggage. I shifted my focus onto God. His glory was at stake. And that made my satisfaction in him, not satisfaction with the way things were, the real issue. It was no longer a matter of being content with his plan for my life. It was a matter of finding him utterly and supremely the source of all contentment. This much, to my delight, would give him the greatest glory. Can you imagine waking up, first of all, and the minute your eyes pop open, you can't even move your arms and legs. You are so heavily dependent on someone else just to get you out of the bed and onto the toilet and your hair brushed. I mean, when I think about what she endures every day, just being in her presence makes you want to cry because you're thinking, wow, that's a heavy, heavy burden the Lord has given her. And she carries it so well. And her life is just this beautiful reflection and this call to all of us. Like, don't forget. I mean, God's glory is so magnified in her life. And then here we are in our little marriages with our little petty fights and our, he's not meeting my needs this way. And it's like, really, God's glory is at stake and our satisfaction, we have to find it so much in him and who he is. Yes, we need to love one another well to be an accurate reflection of Christ and the church. But I'm saying let's raise our eyes a little bit and let's let go of some of these things that we're just holding onto that are meaningless and we're harboring bitterness for what and we're hurting and we're taking away from the glory of God. If your marriage is full of joy and it's awesome and you're serving the Lord together, are you most satisfied in Him? And if your marriage feels like it's full of pain and disappointment and friction, are you still satisfied in Christ.

A (14:39)

Yeah. I think a lot of times, you know, like, when we counsel couples, which I'm sure a lot of you guys do, you know, this is the issue we bring it back to is, are you satisfied? You know, let's focus on you as individuals first. You know, the Bible says, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. Does that describe you? Like, I am so in love with the God of the universe. Like, you know, like in that psalm always says, it's like I'm just overflowing. Like, I'm this cup that's overflowing. Just, just. Just get under me. Because, like, there's just so much splashing over. Because I understand what. What it means that I'm. I'm his son. I'm his son. He calls me son. God, the creator of. Of the earth, calls me son, you know, and he sees me as pure because of what Jesus did on the cross. And I had such an amazing time with him. Like, I didn't even want to leave. It's like, oh, this is so good. So good, so good. Like, are like, you start your day with him, you're overflowing with Him. And it's like, I don't need anything. Because what we find is a lot of times the reason why there's so much arguing is because we're needy. You can't say, the Lord's my shepherd, I shall not want. You say, yeah, the Lord's my shepherd, but I still need a bunch of stuff. I'm not content. I'm not satisfied in him. And so I need you to satisfy me. And so, so many marriage problems are not really marriage problems. They're God problems. Like, you're not satisfied in Him. I find people in terrible situations, but they're totally fine because they're satisfied in him. And you know what she was saying about God's glory? Like, this is primary. Seeking the kingdom first, pursuing his mission first. The thing that we don't talk about in the church is that you can have a fun yet worthless marriage. There are a lot of happy couples that are absolutely worthless. That's great. You guys having fun? Are you having fun at Disneyland? Awesome, awesome, awesome. But what are you doing? There's a war going on. How many disciples have you made? You know, your neighbors, have they heard the gospel from you? Like, what do you actually do? Like, where do you see in scripture that. It was just about you, too? It's about. No, we're accomplishing something.

B (17:16)

Did you lose your train of thought?

A (17:17)

Yeah, I did. I did. I was trying to Think of an illustration right there. And I couldn't think. I had to make a mistake to make you feel better.

B (17:25)

Thank you.

A (17:27)

Just being lateral here. No, it's like, okay, it's like you don't really care if the Dallas Cowboys get along. You stink. It doesn't matter that you're all friends. You're not accomplishing what you're out there supposed to do. I don't care if you guys all hold hands and you're buddy, buddy. You're not winning games. And I guess that's what I see in the church is like, we just celebrate. Oh, look, that couple gets along great, but do they accomplish anything for eternity? You know, the goal is not just getting along. The goal is we're here for a reason.

B (18:06)

You know, that's one of the things I always say that I'm most grateful for about Francis, is that he has really led the charge in our home to have an eternal mindset. So I want to encourage two of you out there. I want to encourage the young husband and say, keep going, keep pushing. Keep giving your wife that bigger picture. Keep lifting her eyes back to the purpose and why you're here. Because that's what Frances has done for me over 22 years. And there were times where there was a little resistance from me, and there's times when it was very hard. I think of when he first went to Africa and he came home at this time, we had two kids, and he's like, we have got to do something. I want to sell our home. I want to cut the square footage in half. I want to give stuff away. It's not okay that these kids over there are starving. And I'm kind of like, okay, well, I didn't go to Africa with you, and I don't really want to give my things away. And it was a real, like, heavy moment in our life because he's feeling like this burden and this weight from the Lord, saw it with his own eyes. And now he's coming back and feeling like, how do I get my wife on board? And I wasn't like, woo hoo, yes, let's do it. You know, I was kind of. I was like, I will do this, but I can't lie to you and say that I'm excited about it and that I want to do it. I feel like that would be. And it was sad to have to admit that, but I had to be honest with him. And I was like, I hope I gave him the impression that I was going to do it 100%. I just couldn't lie and say that I wanted to. And so we did. We went from a 2,000 square foot home to a 1,000 square foot home. Like friends were coming over. And eventually I would be like, you know, do you want this thing that I love so much? Because you can have it, you know, to eventually be like, hey, do you like this? Take it, because I don't have room for it. Go ahead. You know, and it's like, slowly, the Lord just worked on my heart. You don't need it. You're not gonna miss it. It's like, you think? I mean, God used that moment in my life as, like this beautiful ripping away of my tie to the world. We know. When it says you're not of this world, it is. How do I believe that? For me, it took God saying, just let it go and have to get rid of it and move into this tiny little place. And suddenly I felt not as attached to the world. And suddenly it was like, what did I care about that thing for? It's ugly. You know, I didn't miss it, but I didn't know it until I was on the other side of it. And there's so much beauty in just the surrender to my husband and the surrender to the Lord. And so I want to encourage you young women, too. Listen to your husbands. Let them lead you in that way. We have got to have an eternal mindset in our lives and in our marriages because we don't want to be attached to this world and we don't want to lose sight and start going after all the things that everyone else in the world does. It says, be a part of this crooked, twisted generation so your light will shine in the midst of it. Right in the midst of a twisted, crooked generation, your light shines. People are like, why are you getting rid of that? Why are you driving an old car? Why don't you care? It's like, because this isn't what I'm living for, people. One day I'm going to be with Christ and I'm going to have everything.

A (21:44)

Yeah. You know, it's like when we first bought a house, we did probably what everyone else here who's a homeowner did. You go to a loan office or whatever, and they tell you, here's the biggest house you can get. Here's the most square footage. This is the biggest loan you can afford. So what do you do? You get the most you can. Like, you don't even think about it. That's just the American way. Well, if I can afford that then I'll get that and you just get in this mode of, well, I buy as much as I can, I get as much house as I can. And then you go, okay, did I get that from here? Because it seems like Jesus was the opposite. It was about him empty himself, making himself nothing, taking the form of a man, taking the form of a slave, you know, making himself obedient to death, even death on a cross. Therefore God highly exalted him. It was about this race to the bottom and it was about, you know what? Let me, you know, if you want to follow me, then deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me. It was this idea of not let me grab all I can, but let me really pursue him and let me empty myself and be like Jesus and let me see who's in need and the joy that comes from that. Like I said a lot of this, it's like the byproduct of not even trying to be close. It's really about seeking the kingdom, like what she said, seeking the kingdom first. For example, when we moved from Southern California, which we loved that town, we loved that church. That was a church we started in our home, you know, and we were there for 16 and a half years. I mean, these are our people, these, you know, but it was time and God was calling us to something new and it was scary. My biggest fear, you know, after I found out that Lisa was sensing the same things because I kind of casually brought it up. I just, you know, we were driving and I'm like, hey, you know, how are things? You know, and what do you, you know, as you look at me and my gifting in my life, what do you think about, like, what do you see me doing for the rest of our lives? And she says, well, I don't think we're supposed to stay in Simi Valley. I'm like, really? I go, that's crazy. That's what I've been thinking, you know, and we started talking. It's like, wow, we were both kind of being moved the same way. And then what was insane, we're actually going to a conference for Johnny Eareckson Tada to speak at her event. And right when we got there, there was this guy from our church. Okay, so we talked about this on the drive and I was scared, you know, because it's like I have these thoughts that we're supposed to move and then I don't know how she's going to take it. And then she's feeling the same thing. We get to the hotel and this guy Jeff, I was, like, sick with the flu, so I just went straight to him. He's like, hey, hey. And I kind of just, hey. You know, and then went to my room, and then he calls me in the room, and he goes, hey, Francis, I know you're sick. I just gotta say something to you. I'm like, all right. He goes, just go. I'm like, what? He goes, God just told me to tell you you're free to go. Just leave. The church will be fine. What? He goes, hey. He goes, you know, I've never given you a word like this. I know. You know, we're not even really charismatic, but, you know, hey, I mean, it was. He goes, but. And this is crazy. I mean, I just had the conversation. No one else knew. This is us driving there, talking about it. And then for this guy who I'd known for years and had never given me a word from the Lord to call me and find me and to say that, like, it was. It was pretty awesome. It was like this. Okay, I'm not crazy. I was sensing this. Now my wife also thinks this. And then this guy flags me down that I've known for years to give me this message. But still there was this fear, because it's like, oh, but how am I going to tell my kids? How am I going to tell Rachel, who's 14, 14 years old at the time, that the only city and friends and everything she's ever known. How do you tell a freshman girl, hey, we're going to leave all of this, and we don't know where we're going, you know? But it was like, oh, but I got to seek the kingdom first. And that was my biggest fear, was like, oh, man. But I got to just trust that if this is what God wants, that it's going to work out. I can't just be about what would make her happiest at the moment. I got to seek the kingdom first. And I just remember telling her, and, you know, her crying and, you know. And, you know, everyone was crying in the house, you know, and we're just talking about it, and just because these are. This is our family. This is our city. This is all they know. And I just remember one time when, you know, after she was, you know, taking a break from the hysteria, I just remember her telling me, she goes, dad, I know you're doing the right thing. And she goes, I'm so proud of you for doing the right thing. And she goes, I just think whenever, wherever we land and whatever you're going through and wherever we go. I just, I'm proud of you because I think you're going to be more like Jesus when this is all said and done, you know, and suddenly the one I was most afraid of, because freshman girls are scary, but the person I'm most afraid suddenly becomes my biggest fan, like my biggest cheerleader. And it was, I guess that verse popped into mind. Not that that's a promise, but you just seek the kingdom and God knows what you want and the other things will be given to you. And I'm not saying that that's always the happy story because Jesus says, I didn't come to bring peace to your family, I came to bring a sword. I'm going to say father, you know, man against his mother in law, you know, but you know, all the other ones, it's just, it's just there's going to be a lot of friction because of me. And I'm not saying that, hey, this is the way it happens every time if you follow the Lord. It was just one of those moments for me where it was like the thing I was most scared of ended up becoming the greatest blessing.

B (28:41)

Well, how beautiful though too, for children to actually see and witness that you love God more than them. I mean, that's ultimately what you are saying to them is God comes before you. So no matter how hard it is, if God has asked us to do this, then that is what we will do. And that's really hard when that little side of your. Not little, but maybe the biggest side of our protective, nurturing, parental side is to think first about how it will affect the children and what might happen. And man, just be able to set that aside and say, no, God, if you ask us to do this, then we will do it regardless of what it means and what we have to go through and deal with with our children.

A (29:40)

Yeah. One of my heroes, Brad Buzer. Brad and Beth, he's surfer guy from San Diego that just read about the Great Commission and you know, his youth pastor told him about the unreached people group. So he and his wife moved to the jungles of Papua New guinea, you know, and lived there for like 20 something years. Learn a language, translate the New Testament into their language for the first time in history. Establish a church that goes to this day. Raised all their kids. Was it four or five kids? Four kids in the jungle. But he says one of the greatest things and I mean, just, you know, there were times when he's holding his child, you know, burning up with a fever out in the Middle of the jungle thinking, this kid's going to die. Like, what are you doing, God? Other times, you know, he's helicoptered out in a car because of his sickness. You know, tribal people with bows and arrows right in their faces. You know, all of this stuff to get the gospel there. But he says, you know what? I could look my kids in the eye when they turned 18, and I could look at each one of them and say, look, you saw how mom and I risked everything for the gospel, even your lives. There was nothing more beautiful than the gospel to us. Now go and do the same. Wow. So look at your kids. And when I heard that, I'm like, see, that's biblical. The kingdom is so much higher than all of this. And to hear someone say, look, you saw how we risked our lives for this book, the truth of this book. We didn't hold anything back from God to do the same. And now three, I think three of his kids are back in the jungles of Papua New guinea, winning their own tribes to the Lord. And you go, okay, that's the type of legacy I want to have. See, those are the types of warriors that we need to be raising in our home. You know, not this. You know what all the stats say of when they turn 18, they leave the church because they didn't see that in the home. They didn't see that type of seriousness and effort and sacrifice. Like, we really believe in heaven. See, I don't know what, you know, like, when you hear the phrase happily ever after, I think we all have this picture in our mind of what does happily ever after look like to you? You know, and it could be, gosh, maybe being a grandparent and knowing that my kids, you know, are Christians and they have Christian grandkids and just, okay, we did it. But for me, the picture of happily ever after is when this is all done. Like, man, it'd be so cool one day to have Lisa by my side and to have our seven or however many kids we have by then. You know, like when Christ returns and, you know, whatever happens and at that end saying, I know she won't be my wife anymore. I know my kids won't be my kids anymore anymore. But I actually believe our relationships will be deeper somehow, absent of sin. And how God's going to work that out, I have no clue. I think it's going to be brilliant. Wow. I never would have thought of this, but his ways are so far beyond ours. But I just want to look them all in the eyes and just be able to say, one day, okay, my greatest hope is to one day look at them in the eyes in the presence of God and go, see, I told you it'd be worth it. Didn't I tell you it'd be worth it? Then I tell you that whatever we sacrifice, and I don't know if some of them will die as martyrs, I don't know if we will. I don't know what it's going to be like. I just know in the end, whatever we sacrifice is going to be worth it. I just want to be with them forever and just go, gosh, see, I told you. You can never outgive him. You can't out serve him. We could never sacrifice. We had a little taste of that on the earth and. And I knew this would be worth it one day. And I remember Lisa, one time, we were speaking at a marriage conference, and she equated our lives to that show, the Amazing Race. And she goes, you know, being married to Frances, it feels like a lifelong episode of the Amazing Race where she says, you know, we'll have little victories, but we don't just sit there and celebrate. It's a quick high five, and then we gotta keep running. You know, in that game where. Cause you gotta get to the next station, you gotta keep going. And she goes. And we don't have time to fight. Cause the couples that fight, you see, they lose the game, they get disqualified. So it's like, man, we gotta keep running. We gotta keep running. And she goes, there'll be a day to celebrate when we cross that finish line and collapse into his arms. Yeah, we're gonna celebrate. But for right now, we have to keep running. It's not about just sitting down and playing house and creating a home for ourselves. This isn't our home. This is just a race that we're running from one station to the next. We don't have time to fight. We're on a mission. And I thought, man, that's such a great picture. I mean, how many of you see your marriages that way? It's like, man, we're pairing up and we're running this race and we're running to win. And so, you know, I celebrate, you know, like, when she goes to, you know, speak at a women's conference, and I hear about the lives that are changed or, you know, the people that have lived in our home and seeing the change in these women's lives, like, everything that she, you know, does for the kingdom, it's like, man, right on, right on. Let's just. We Celebrate because we're pursuing something together. And probably the coolest thing recently was when she was pregnant with our last child. This was just like a little over a year ago. And an opportunity came up to foster a 16 year old girl, you know, that was a drug addict, living on the streets, in and out of group homes, just a mess. And you know, for her big, I mean you weren't that big, just in the stomach.

B (36:05)

Thank you.

A (36:06)

You only look like you're three months pregnant. Thank you, dear. I know, it's awesome. But even though she was pregnant and that's a. When you're about to give birth to your sixth kid, is that the time to think, oh, let's adopt a 16 year old. And yet it was more her idea, you know, like, no, it's never the perfect time and let's just do it. And to see her faith in that of it's crazy raising that many kids as it is and then taking someone in from that type of lifestyle and background and, and telling our 14 year old daughter, hey, you're going to get a girl to bunk with that we need you to have an impact on. And then, you know, I even took my daughter out, I think she's 14 or maybe 15 at the time, just took her out to dinner to make sure she was okay with it all and she didn't eat and I'm like, you okay? And she goes, oh, I'm fasting this week. It's like, okay, well I'm not, you know, But you guys, how many 15 year olds are fasting that they could have an impact on this girl that's going to move into the house? And you just go, okay, yeah, this is my family, you know, and for this gal's life to turn around and I mean within probably like a week or two, I see this girl who's, man, we don't even know she's in the house. And from her background, suddenly she's, I saw her on the couch cuddling with Lisa, doing her homework. I'm like, are you kidding me? And now this girl is being a light on her campus and ministering to other girls, sharing her faith, discipling other people and you go, man, this is unreal. This is so cool. This is life. This is, you know, we're all pursu this and even on Sundays, like we don't, we have house churches and so we don't even go to the same churches because you know, one's leading worship here, one's leading worship here, one's doing this here and it's just like, yeah, right on, let's go, let's go, let's do this thing. But the unity that comes from all of that, I'm just saying, man, I'm just kind of rambling until you butt in. But it's just.

B (38:43)

You'Re doing sacrifice. I'm just gonna go sit down there next to her.

A (38:49)

No, but it's just, I guess what I'm saying is, you know, people go, oh, you're sacrificing family, family, family. And I'm just like, man, try to find a closer family than ours. Yeah, we don't have date night every week. And we don't. I don't date every one of my kids, you know, I can't even do that enough nights in the week, you know, but we're on the mission together and doesn't mean we don't laugh, we don't enjoy each other, and there's not great relationship. But it's just my job as the man of the house. I go, no, I gotta keep us on this mission because I don't want to come to the end and go, oh, aren't we all happy? And realize we didn't do anything on that earth. We didn't make disciples. We didn't care about unreached people groups. We didn't care that people were starving or being raped or fatherless. It's like, what kind of picture is that to the world? So it's been about 10 years since we came out with you and me forever. And if you guys remember, we shared how the proceeds were going to go towards some people who were in serious need in East Africa. If you remember the story, it was our 20 year anniversary and we decided to go out there and the starvation we saw was like way beyond anything we'd ever seen. And then we saw these women in the red light district who were just sex slaves, trafficked prostitutes, just absolutely miserable. And we said, let's just use all of the proceeds to help these people. And a few weeks ago we got to visit and see the result of that with our feeding programs. Even got to see one of the little girls that we ministered to. And 12 years later is healthy and we're able to put together a little home for her and, and make sure her family is well taken care of along, you know, and she represents like a bunch of kids that were helped through the project. And then we got to see the women's home where these women were being trained up to actually have some skills and, and be able to use those Skills to get jobs and start businesses and. And we were able to see the first graduation in that building.

B (41:25)

Yeah, I was not prepared, actually, when we pulled up to that building and knowing just how much a part we got to play in it. But really, all of you as well, because you purchased the book. So to walk up and see this gorgeous building and these girls that were dressed up with their graduation gowns and all their little kids are just. They bought them all T shirts that said, you know, way to go, Mom. Bravo, Mom. And as we were sitting there, I was even thinking about, wow, these children don't even know who their father is. Many of them came because these girls were in the red light district. But I thought, now these women know their true father and God can be a father to all these little children. And it was just overwhelming. I really cannot describe how powerful it was and how meaningful. And what was really cool was at the end of the trip, we had brought four of our youngest children because Francis liked to joke and say, we want you guys to know where your inheritance went. But we brought.

A (42:34)

It's not a joke.

B (42:36)

Right. But at the end of the trip, I asked my girls. I was just having a little, you know, coke with my. With the two girls that went. And they. I said, what was your favorite part of this trip? You know, we'd been there for, you know, eight or nine days. And they both said being at the women's home and watching the graduation just was really powerful to them. So, anyways, we just want to say thanks to God for letting all of us be part of what he wants to do. He wants to rescue people. He wants to redeem their lives and to bring people from darkness to light. And we got to witness it, and there's just nothing better.

A (43:15)

Yeah, I wish you could have been there to watch these women celebrate, you know, jumping up and down, singing, dancing. And I'm just thinking, whoa, A year ago, they were sitting in a little room, terrified as guy after guy comes in the kitchen, kids are under the bed, and just, what's this guy going to do to me? What's this guy got? Just. They would describe the horrors of that life. And now I'm watching them, these beautiful women just jumping, glowing with this future and this hope and this love for Jesus, to see this whole village come out just for, you know, to celebrate little Sophie and. And what God had done in her life and the way they were worshiping now, this village worshiping, and to go, wow, we got to be a part of that. And so one of those Benefits that we didn't think about was just watching our own children celebrate with us and explain to the older ones, like, you're making money now. Like, you see what we've done with our money and there's no regrets. Like, you see how full this life is. Go and do the same. Use your gifting, make some money. Don't spend it on yourself. Invest it in people, invest it in the kingdom and you'll be grateful forever.

B (44:43)

Yeah, it's such a privilege to just watch God at work all around the world and to really know it's. It's so good to get outside of our just small what we see right in front of us, our own neighborhood, our own community, and to remember, like, wow, there's brothers and sisters that are in every part of the world. Like God says, every tribe tongue nation. I will have my people. And so to go and watch them work for the Lord and watch how the gospel changes people's lives. What a privilege. And you can know with confidence that God is at work. You know, we watch the news and it looks like, man, everything's going crazy, but God is at work. And don't lose hope, you know, keep fighting for what is on God's heart and believing that he's orchestrating something really beautiful.

A (45:36)

Yeah. It would take hours to download everything that we've experienced and want to share with you, but we just wanted to give a quick thank you for those of you guys who have supported the ministry or purchased the book. And hopefully it's gotten your marriage and your family on the mission that God's called you to. Thanks for listening to the Crazy Love podcast. If today's conversation challenged you and you want to go deeper, visit youandmeforever.org there you can order Frances and Lisa's book, you and Me Forever, watch chapter videos, explore bonus content, and learn more about the mission behind it all. That's youandmeforever.org thanks again for joining us on the Crazy Love podcast.