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Foreign.
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Welcome to the Crazy Love Podcast. What if the biggest tension in your marriage or your parenting isn't really about schedules, personalities, or seasons of life, but about what mission is actually? First in today's episode, Frances and Lisa Chan respond to questions couples and parents are really asking. What do you do when spouses feel called in different directions? How do you raise kids beyond knowledge into real conviction? And how do you live on mission without neglecting Sabbath, extended family or the realities of a broken culture? And keep listening after today's episode for a special update from Frances and Lisa as they share how their book you and Me Forever has impacted more than just marriages, but thousands of lives around the world.
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A
Now, we kind of just said, hey, let's just go for a little bit, throw some thoughts out there, let you ask questions. So Don's over there with the microphone right next to the guy that raised his hand.
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C
Hey, I'm Ben Kaiser with the Military Mission and Navigators. Quick question. What is your counsel to couples? That the husband and wife have different missions that they think God is giving them. So, for example, the Dallas Cowboys think their goal is to win the Super Bowl. And one side, the other side, the goal is to have great uniforms. How do you counsel couples that may have different idea what the mission is?
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A
That's more you.
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D
I mean, part of me wants to say, well, there aren't two different missions. There's one mission which is to love God with all of our hearts and to make disciples and how that plays out. I mean, obviously there's different giftings between a husband and a wife. But if I felt like we were supposed to be in Florida, ministering at a church here, and Francis felt called to plant home churches in San Francisco, then, I mean, I legitimately feel like the woman needs to submit to the husband's leadership. And it's not necessarily that their call is the greatest, but God has chosen them as the leaders of the home. And so they are going to set the pace and the tone. And within that, the husband can graciously say, babe, I need you to come and do this. In light of what God's put on my heart and our heart, this is what I feel God has called our family to do. And I think the woman really needs to trust God in that and believe that the safest place she can be is in the will of God, which is to submit to your husbands in everything as unto the Lord. And there will always be a way for you to use your gifts. And I mean, there is no lack of people that need love and discipleship. And so I just feel like there's no way a woman's gifts would be wasted by the Lord even as she follows and comes under her husband's leadership. Do you have anything to add to that?
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Yeah, no, I agree. You know, I mean, biblically, we do see, and I know that there's a variety of views on this issue, but best we can understand scripture was that the man was the head of the home. And that as the head of the home, he has an opportunity to be like Christ, who is the head of the church. And what Christ did was that he served the church, he died for the church, he sacrificed for the church. And so I have an opportunity as the authority in the home and the leader in the home to show the world a type of authority like they've never seen, where I use my authority to actually bless my wife and to love my wife and to sacrifice for my wife. You know, at the same time, there are times that blessing her and honoring her and sacrificing for her may look different than what maybe what the world looks like. You know, it's not just giving her everything she desires. There may be times when I'm like, honey, I think this is a better, more eternal decision. And so before the Lord, we gotta head this way and we're gonna go this direction. And that's. There've been very few times I've done that. But in those times, we've seen the blessing of the Lord. And so I say, when there is that discrepancy, this is something that we don't talk about today, because who's the last person you heard that was grateful for authority? Right? We live in a very anti authority culture. All authority is bad. You know, who praises authority? And so that's why we end up looking at God and go, he has no right to. To tell me what I can and can't do. If he made me this way, he can't tell me to not do this or not do. It's just this. Everyone's about themselves. Everyone does what's right in their own eyes. And so I have an opportunity to say authority is actually a good thing. See, if Adam and Eve had actually submitted to their authority, the authority was a good thing. And it's a very thing that I told our daughter that we just adopted was. I go, you know, when she was getting into some trouble at school or whatever, I go, listen, honey, I know you've never seen good authority in your life. And so you just. Any authority is bad. I said, but my Goal is to show you that authority can be a great, great thing. I love being under the authority of God. I love having him as master. I love the commands he gives me. And so there are rules in this house. You don't just get my provision and my protection without my authority also. But that's not the downside. By the time you graduate high school, I want you to actually love authority and be so grateful that you're under it, because I want to do that good of a job as your dad. And so it's this. We have an opportunity to show the world a different picture. Because I told her, I go, look, I want you one day to love the authority of God and not just look at all these rules as these things you have to obey. And it sucks. And I wish I could just be free to do my own thing. But to go, no, actually, his commands lead to life. And I saw that by the way that my dad led my mom and the way that he led us. And so, yeah, in those situations, I think that's why the Lord has, from what I see in Scripture, a complementarian picture of marriage. Yeah. So, Francis, one of the things on my heart is the difference between knowledge and conviction. And I think my kids are getting a lot of knowledge from me, but I'm not sure their conviction is where mine is. So would you share on that a little bit?
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D
Conviction is not something that comes from us, and that's a humbling thing. It's very hard to watch your children rebel against the Lord. And we walked through that with our oldest, who's now 20, but around 14 or 15, or maybe it was before that, because before we moved. Sorry, it must have been 13. I mean, there were times I was sitting at her bedroom door just sobbing. And I'm praying, you know, with my hand stretched out toward her bedroom, thinking I'm completely helpless. Because that's something that we have to bring into this with all of our talk of give them the right picture. In some ways, that's all we can do, is show them our authentic faith, our willingness to say, we love you most, God, but the rest is in the Lord's hands. Whether or not they choose to follow Christ is not something we can control. And that's very hard. So what we do is we say, we release that to the Lord. They are not ours, God, but we will show them what it looks like. We will love you with all of our hearts. We will sacrifice for you. Because how much more messed up are they going to be when they constantly see you blown and tossed by the wind. And sometimes you're convicted, and sometimes you're not following through on them. I mean, at least if you can just give them a picture of. Along with your, you know, your sin and your growth, it's like they can see that the trajectory of your life is, I am here for Christ. I will love him most. The gospel is what's most important. That is what we're going after. We're not going after how to find out how to convict them. And there was times I even had to come to Rachel and say, you know what? I am really trying to be your Holy Spirit, and I'm sorry, that is not my job. I'm your mom, so I'm gonna give you wisdom and I'm gonna pray for you, and I'm gonna love you, but whoa. Sometimes I'm a little out of balance. And she's like, what were you talking about, Mom? And, you know, I give her a couple examples, like, it's not my place to convict you. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. And so we have to. We can't confuse our jobs and a lot of ways what our biggest job is to show them what it looks like and to pray for them.
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A
And, yeah, I remember during that time, Lisa even asked me, she goes, do you feel like we failed as parents? And I said, no, I'm not going to take. Of course we made mistakes, especially with your first, you know, But I said, but, no, we didn't fail on this, because, look, we've lived this thing out. I do not believe we are hypocrites. We live this thing out, and she knows it, and she's seen God move. But according to my theology, unless the Holy Spirit enters her and convicts her in her inner person, like, I can't make that happen. That's not up to us. And I said, you know, we could lock her in her room and give her more rules, but what happens when she turns 18 if her heart doesn't change and we're not in charge of that? And I hate it. I wish I could, man. And I think I tried, you know, as much as I could, you know, to give her the right messages on and on and on, give her the example. But it's a miracle when the Holy Spirit enters into someone. And I remember even just telling my own daughter, the thing that scares me is, if you were to die tonight, I really think you'd go to hell. You think that was easy to say to your own daughter, your firstborn, the love of your life? And yet it's like to explain to her. I go, I get it. You love dad, you love mom, you love us. I just don't think you love God. It's not here. You do good things because we give you those rules, but it's not coming from inside. And ah, that was miserable. And it was a miserable month or two or however long it was where, you know, you're up, I'm up at 3 in the morning, just crying, going, God, you're having me preach everywhere. Really. You're not going to save my daughter. You're not going to put your spirit in her. Because once God's spirit enters someone, then it's almost like you can let go. And it's like, well, she's going to have her own convictions. I mean, you can even let her attest the boundaries. She's a slave to righteousness now. And remember a couple months later when she came into the room and said, dad, you're right. I was like, look honey, maybe I was a little strong. Whatever else, she goes, no, you're right, the Holy Spirit wasn't in me. I'm like, well, how do you know? She goes, because he's in me now. And it's so different. Life is different. I talk to God like I'm talking to you right now. And from that point on, it seriously was just a totally different trajectory in her life. No, she's not perfect. But man, you just see it in everything and it's the conviction. So when she turned 18 and she's off on her own, it's like, she's fine, she's fine. I don't need to know what she's doing. The Holy Spirit knows everything. So that's where when it comes to conviction, you can't put that in a person. That's the miracle we're all shooting for. And I think too often in America and, and ministry in America, we think there's this process of, well, if you do this first and then this first, and then this first and this first, then they become a Christian right here and the Holy Spirit answers them. Then it goes and it's like, no, there's not a step by step thing. There's one step. At some point the person understands the gospel and the Holy Spirit enters into them and then they're a slave to righteousness and it's a road of sanctification for the rest of their lives. But until the Holy Spirit enters into them, we're all just talking, you know, it's just, it's all going to fall on deaf Ears? Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Did you have someone back there? Oh, no, no, no. I didn't know why you were back there. Sorry. Open your prayer. He had his hand up here.
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B
I've heard several stories of folks who had parents that were in the ministry in particular. And bitterness was built because they were away from the home so much so that they could be involved in their ministry outside of the home. And maybe it's not ministry. Maybe people are just away for work a lot. But what kind of boundaries do you set to separate, you know, to where you are so active outside of the home, but to where you're also active within the home and with your children or with your family to kind of prevent that separation?
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I'll start this way.
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Okay.
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A
All right. I guess we have so much ministry going on in the home. See, this is where we like to separate everything we believe. There's this thing called privacy that I have yet to see in Scripture, where it's like, well, here's my house, and obviously no one else is going to live in my house other than my flesh and blood. And I'm going. I don't know. I don't know if that's what hospitality means. It seems like there was even a welcoming of strangers. And so ministry isn't even necessarily leaving my house. Our house is ministry. I mean, been married 22 years. I doubt there's been even a year, if you add all the days together, where there wasn't someone else living in our home. I mean, it's been about discipleship in the house, and people drop by in the house. And we've had all sorts of people living in our house, you know, whether alcoholic, right off the street, you know, trying to sober up, to a guy coming right out of prison with an ankle monitor to, you know, living there in our house. And they've seen the miracles that have taken place in our home. And now they see all of these people and all these different ministries that are. That they call brother and sister, aunt and uncle, because they were all a part of this ministry. And so there's not the separation of. I have ministry time, and then I have family time. But we're trying to take the book literally that who is my brother? Who are, you know, who's my mother, who's my brothers and sisters? It's those who hear the word of God and do it. This is really our brother. I found this guy on the street, but I think he's really our brother. So I'm bringing him in the house, and you guys Treat him like a brother or uncle or whatever you want to call him. You know, it's that type of mindset. And then there's times, yeah, there are times when I'm gone and I remember the first few trips to Africa or overseas, you know, when my kids were missing me and my wife doesn't go, yeah, you know, stupid ministry pulls him away, but she goes, you know, she goes, isn't that awesome, you guys? How many people on the earth have a dad who's out in Africa right now helping all these other kids that don't even have any dads? Like, I hope you guys are proud of him. I mean, it is so special to have. It's a total different mindset rather than he's being taken away to. He's been an amazing example to you. And someday we'll take you with us and you'll see these hospitals that are built, you'll see these wells that people are drinking out of and you'll see these lives that are impacted and you'll realize that this is the way Christ wants us to live and there's no better way to live. So it's that type of mindset. And so we do take them. You know, I just took one of them to China with me. I usually travel with a different kid each time. And this time we took a couple of them with us since it was Disneyland, but you know, just taking them to different places so they can see and play with kids in different areas and. But also to get them to think eternally.
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D
Yeah, I mean, I think you pretty much answered it.
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A
You don't have anything.
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D
Yeah, well, just say it. No, I'm just thinking, you know, even in just the little moments of life, I'm thinking like, I have still a 10 month old and a 4 year old at home. The rest are in school, but even with those little ones. And it'll be like, well, you can, you know, a woman wants to meet, needs some counsel or prayer, I'll invite her over to the house. And it's like, we need to pray together. And I'm like, claire, come here. You know, she's only four. Do you want to come and pray with, you know, me and Susie? It's like, so they're again growing up, just being invited into it, watching it. It's not like mom and dad go do ministry and I'm left on my own. It's even at just a young age, inviting them into it. There's times when we would call family meetings like, hey, we've got to all Pray. Something just happened to, you know, whatever Sean, and we need to pray for him. This is what's going on. And suddenly, because they've known him, he was in our home and now we're going to pray together again. It's not like there's the guarantee that there isn't going to be some sadness or loss. We all suffer loss as we pursue the gospel. It is hard not to have him home all the time. But the will of God, it says, is to rejoice in all circumstances and to give thanks. And so we have to make a choice how we communicate to others and how we communicate to ourselves and our own hearts. So that's why it is very important to me to say, let's pray for Daddy. It's around seven tonight, and he's going to be speaking right now and teaching people about Jesus. So we've got to pray. And. And it brings them into it in a way where it's like, oh, I don't have to feel bad about this. Or, you know, there's the reality of we miss him, but we're gonna be part of it and we're gonna pray for him.
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And.
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D
And they all get stoked when they get to go with him on their trips. He starts when they're about 4 years old. So Claire is just about to go on her first trip and she, like, can't stop talking about it. So it's kind of cute.
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A
And there's also the truth that we tell him about what's going on around the world. World too, that, you know, a lot of dads today are going to be martyred, you know, and that's part of our faith, is it's not going to be. We don't do this because it's easy. This is something we're willing to risk our life for. And, you know, I mean, honestly, I've had some talks with our kids of, hey, we don't back down from this. And if our world ever gets this way or we end up in some country where it's like this, dad's not going to back down. And I will give my life for this, and I will die for this. And many, many dads have, and many children have, and we've been blessed in this country. But let's not fall into this typical American Christian thing where, oh, Daddy can't miss a night of family time because many dads have given their lives. And so I want to find some of those kids, too, whose dad gave their lives, and I want to bless them like crazy. And we'll go without stuff and give it to them because they were. They lived for this thing. They believed it. Do you have advice for couples that.
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C
Are engaged and moving towards marriage to.
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A
Have a marriage that's on a mission like you're explaining? Yeah, there's this book.
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D
All the profits go towards projects around the world. So it's a great book to purchase.
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A
It really is like everything we can say about marriage and parenting at this stage kind of rolled into a book and then some. And I'm not trying to sell anything because you can get it for free. You just download the app and we even read it for you. So it's not like a salesy thing. But, yeah, that's kind of cool.
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D
But we offer it for purchase so that those funds for those that can afford it can go out and do even more for the gospel.
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A
Yeah. When we wrote it, I was like, okay, this is something. I'm convicted before the lord. And so we may even invest money and lose money just to get it out there. And so I don't want anyone to not get it because of money. So you can just. Just go to the itunes store and go to you and me forever and download it. And it's free. You can read it, or we read it to you and videos, everything. And then, yeah, if you purchase it, then the money goes overseas. But we weren't. We're not making a dime off of it. It's all just to get out.
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B
Guys, when you run into a couple and instead of their focus is the family is for the mission that reversed the mission is the family. Is there anything even. I don't know how I'm trying to explain.
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Yeah.
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Have you run into any success where you actually see a family turn the focus from themselves outward, or is that the kind of. You just shake your dust off your feet and move on because it's all God having to convict them. Have you seen much success in that area?
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I think. I think I have. You know, I mean, I just recently had someone say, gosh, my parents are changing their lives around because they're reading your book. And he goes, by the way, my dad's 92.
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B
What?
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A
You know, it's just, you know, from young to old, you know, it's a lot's a younger generation where they read the book and go, yeah, no, duh. You know, like, this is what I see in scripture. Like, I didn't get this idolization of marriage that we've seen in the church, where that just became, like, the goal. So the young people, you know, get it? I think the big challenge, because I get asked that question all the time, you know, of just what happens to the family or, you know, it seems like you're sacrificing the family and isn't that most important? Marriage? My marriage is my first ministry, and I just challenge them to show me that biblically, you know, and I think it's a lot of, you know, Christian lingo that goes around, but when they look and search the scriptures, I just really encourage them, show me in the book, you know, a verse that I exposited the wrong way, you know, because I don't ever want to be wrong in how I exposit or show me a verse or two that I maybe didn't see in there. I challenge you to do that. Or maybe you look through the scriptures yourself and kind of go, wow, I think. I think we were off on this one.
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D
Yeah. I just think I recently spoke at a young moms group, and they have older mentors. And after I shared the message, I was talking about marriage. And it was really awesome because this older elder's wife, I would guess she was probably around 60, just full of life and the spirit. And she come up to me and she said, man, when you said that about there's a lot of happy but worthless marriages, I actually gave my husband credit because it is what he said. And I said, you know, my husband always says. And she goes, that really challenged me because we've been married whatever, you know, 30, 40 years. And I thought, wow, I really want to make sure that we're not just having a happy marriage and we're useless for the kingdom when we're not still charging it, you know. So it was very encouraging to see the humility of this older woman to come to me and say, that was a word from the Lord for me. And it encouraged me to think, yeah, the Lord. What did Jesus do when he preached to the crowds? He's like, he who has ears to hear, let him hear. And that's the beauty of if the spirit of God is working and moving, and then you don't have to worry so much about, like, you must change. You know, it's like, I'm going to just. I'm going to speak the truth. I'm going to show you what it looks like, and he who has ears to hear is going to hear. And that good soil, when the word of God falls on it, it takes root and it's going to grow. And then we don't even have to worry about it. So we write the book we share the truth and we let God's spirit work and convict and move and do all the rest. So we have been encouraged to see.
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A
Yeah, even before we wrote a sentence, I think, you know, we went away and we prayed and as we're praying, we're just saying, God, if everyone hates us after this book, it's cool. You know, if that's our job right now, we're just honored to be your prophets and to say whatever the Lord, you know, whatever you have in this book. We don't even know exactly all that we're going to write, but we know some people, people are not going to like it. And even if everyone dislikes it, it's still an honor to write for you. And so I have seen change and I think there's a new crop of people mindset changing, but it's also easier for us because we're in San Francisco and not in the Bible belt. And I know in the Bible belt it's all about family first. And we'll say God first, family. So second. But what does that even mean? That doesn't have a real practical value to that statement. And it really is. Marriage is my first ministry and anything that keeps us from focusing on our marriage is, you know, is off. So I know it's difficult for some of you because of where you live and the church culture. That may not necessarily be a biblical culture, but we've created this family first mentality.
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D
Don't underestimate what God can do through your example. So if the Spirit is stirring this in you and you're like, we're off and we've got to do something different, just be encouraged that God is going to use your example in the lives of others that he's already stirring in. So do it, drop everything, change things and believe that God's going to use your example in other people's lives.
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C
Yeah, I just have a follow up question just to this very topic. So. So you said, point me to a scripture where this is in there. And we've had some similar frustrations with people relating to it in our community in the same way. And they would always point to the things in the Old Testament, pass these things on to your children, impress them on your children, these kinds of things. Would you just explain that by saying, well, that was God's specific instructions for Israel. There is a good amount in the scriptures about, you know. Yeah, I guess, I guess not to focus exclusively on your children, but really prioritizing them, your responsibilities to them. And that's what we've seen people use, I guess as a. If you call it an excuse or whatever to have that family first focus.
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A
Yeah, yeah, but those passages are about teaching your kids the law, and it's about taking the them with you along the way. We're not saying don't teach your kids anything or ignore them. We're just saying take them on the mission with you and show them that the mission is first. And this is all about, I mean, the idea of even this as he was trying to impress on the children's heart, it was through the course of life. You're teaching them, not just in your room, but he's, he's just saying as you go, where Is it Deuteronomy 6, 7. You shall teach them diligently to your children. You shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise, you shall bind them as a sign on your hand. They shall be frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and in your gates. And when the Lord brings you into the land he swore to your fathers. So it's just this constant. Yeah, you know, I don't think I've contradicted that passage. In fact, I'm taking my kids to Africa with me and saying, look, it's not just this that we teach our kids by, like, hey, you know, go to Awana and recite a verse, which is fine, which is great. I'm just saying go beyond that and go, well, okay, you know, you memorized that verse about, don't just sit, be well, you know, be warm and fed. Okay, we're going to go walk on the streets together now. We're going to go knock on the doors of these people now. And as we go along the way, I'm not only teaching you God's word and having you memorize God's word, I want to show you God's word in action. Watch when dad gets rejected. I'm about to get turned down. Okay, you know, here's the gospel. Look, I got treasure in heaven now because I just got rejected. Cool thing, you know, it's. It's that type of teaching, you know, rather than, hey, let's just huddle together in our house. But it's out as we do ministry. Yes. Over here. Let's have a. Oh, oh, I'm sorry. We'll take that over here. Yeah. One quick question. One thing I feel convicted about with my life that I'm not fully understanding is this concept of Sabbath. And I know it'll get better when I get married and have kids and have a of ton responsibilities, then I'll understand Sabbath. But I was just gonna. So being that we're on mission as a married couple or whenever I do get married, how does Sabbath play into that? It's good. That might be my only sin. No, no, no. I realized, okay, when I was early on in ministry, I didn't take a Sabbath. I was just like non stop. And I figured, well, I'm a pastor, so I can't take Sunday off. And then Saturday I'm going to be preparing for my Sunday sermon. And so I can't really do that. And then I don't know, I had all sorts of excuses. And then it's like, well, then do I not fly to Orlando? You know, if I Sabbathed, I wouldn't be here. You know, it's just all sorts of like reasons why I couldn't do it and have gotten more convicted about that. And understanding there is a pattern, there is a faith in that. And I have now on my phone, you know, Sabbath on Saturday or Friday. So the way I look at it was, you know, sometimes if I'm speaking here on a Friday, I think that's what God would want me to do. But I have Sabbath there on that day. So I just make sure I can switch that to Saturday and I won't do something there. And you know, so I'm working on that. That hasn't been a strength of mine in the past and I'm trying to teach that to my children. Yeah.
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D
My question goes along kind of with the Sabbath but also with extended family. How do you interface all that, like taking care of elderly parents and you know, you raise your kids and your home's a mission field. But like, in my case, my family were not believers and so they thought we maybe were a little crazy, which is fine for the gospel, but how do you still continue to love them so that they would desire him as well?
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A
Yeah, that's good. I think it's very important to honor your parents. We had moved Lisa's parents into our house at one point, put an addition on there for them because they were getting older and everything else, but they didn't really like living with us, so they moved out. But I tried.
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D
Right, they didn't like living with you. I'm just kidding.
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A
Exactly. You know, I mean, you know, but I tried and I just joke with my kids, you know, one day dad's going to be in diapers and you got to. But I want to give that example to my kids, you know, and then my mom lives not too far from us, and my brother's been doing a lot of that, taking care of her and having her around and us trying to have her around and explain the importance of that. I think we could do more, but we both come from decent sized families, and so there's kind of a spreading of that. But we want to show them that it's important. And I think by them seeing and knowing that, look, we're always there for Grandma, Grandpa, you know, if they need anything, we're here.
- [34:11]
D
Yeah. I mean, legitimately, it's hard when people have a lot of expectations of you. And it's a very interesting road of trying to figure out at what point you're responding to these expectations rather than the will of the Lord and what he has really asked you to do. And so there is no easy answer to that other than to be on your knees and believe that God's spirit will lead. And there's times when you might suddenly realize, whoa, I'm really answering expectations and trying to just, you know, be this robot for this person who's requiring too much of me. And it's okay. The Lord may release you and say, it's okay to say no. It's okay to say, I love you and I wish I could do this for you, but God has asked me to do this and I must love him first. So even like we show our children God is first, we have to do that with our parents, with our boss, you know, with whoever. So it's a Holy Spirit dance of keeping step with the Spirit, because he will tell you when you're off. And, you know, he may also be like, wow, you're not really honoring your mother and father the way I've asked you to step it up a little. You know, it could go either way. And so we have to be always asking the Lord and always holding it out. I'm at a loss here, Lord. I need your wisdom. I want to do what you've asked me to do and really believe that he will answer that as you surrender and say, I'm willing to do whatever, Lord, you know, but I won't just go blindly or just keep following these people. At some point, I've got to say, no, God is my father and this is what he's asking me to do.
- [35:57]
A
That's really good.
- [35:58]
D
Thank you, Dan.
- [36:00]
A
Good answer. Yeah. Because you can't just say whatever your mom tells you, do you go do it. It's like, no, there's a cutoff point and it's a great example to our kids, you know, to say, look, honey, if I ever, if I get old, I start losing it. And I just want you to sit with me every day, all day long. Don't listen to me. You know, there's a mission out there and you can't even let me keep you from that mission. And take care of me, clean my diapers, but go on the mission. Okay, we have time for one more last question. Okay.
- [36:32]
C
There's talk of a Christian bubble, you know, kind of keeping your children separated.
- [36:37]
A
From, you know, things that are going.
- [36:38]
C
On in the world.
- [36:39]
A
What has been your strategy in kind.
- [36:41]
C
Of, you know, just preparing your children, you know, for the wickedness and, you.
- [36:46]
A
Know, the things that are going on.
- [36:47]
C
Out there and not sheltering them too much from it.
- [36:52]
A
That's a great answer. Two words. Public school. You know, I mean, our kids are in public school and they come home with insane stories. And I cannot be any more proud of our children in this area. They are freaks on their campuses. Like, they don't fit in. They, you know, don't have all the friends they could have if they had compromised. And they've had to stand firm. They've raised their hand and challenged teachers. And so by the time they're 18, I'm like, they're good. They can make it through public school in San Francisco and keep their faith and stand for their faith and share their faith on that campus. They're good. So I don't, for us, that's how.
- [37:46]
D
I'm a huge scaredy cat. So I get the fear entirely. And it is hard sometimes to see what they come home with and what they've talked about with friends. And we've had to have conversations. I mean, I'm Talking with my 10 year old son about pornography already because I want him to know and be prepared. Buddy, your friend has an iPhone 6. Okay, first of all, I want to go talk to them mom and dad, but guess what? Eventually they're going to start wanting to show you some stuff on their phone. And we're going to have to talk about this now and decide what you're going to do. I mean, we cannot shelter them from the world as much as we want to. And so there's a lot of prayer and a lot of heartache, but at the same time, having a 20 year old who's in college, I truly cannot imagine her going out into that world having been sheltered her whole life. And maybe you have had a different experience. But I'm just telling you from our experience, I really feel like I can see now the wisdom in letting them experience some of these things as they're under our roof. And we talk them through and we pray them through and we show them how to stand firm and stand for the Lord in the midst of a twisted and cross crooked generation. So man, it's not easy, it's not an easy choice. But I have seen the benefit of it now as we've got a. So the 20 year old's in her third year of college and then we have a senior and a junior in high school and it's been very, very good.
- [39:20]
A
Yeah. And then we have 11 year old, 10 year old, 4 year old, 1 year old and we can direct them to the examples of their older sisters and go, oh yeah, you know, look at their example, look at how you see how she's doing this, this, this and this. And you know how this happens here, here. You know, they've walked this road ahead of you and they navigated it, navigated. They got through it really well. So it's been about 10 years since we came out with you and me forever and, and if you guys remember, we shared how the proceeds were going to go towards some people who were in serious need in East Africa. If you remember the story, it was our 20 year anniversary and we decided to go out there and the starvation we saw was like way beyond anything we'd ever seen. And then we saw these women in the red light district who were just sex slaves, trafficked prostitutes, just absolutely miserable. And we said, let's just use all of the proceeds to help these people. And a few weeks ago we got to visit and see the result of that with our feeding programs. Even got to see one of the little girls that we Minister to and 12 years later is healthy and, and we're able to put together a little home for her and, and make sure her family is well taken care of along, you know, and she represents like a bunch of kids that were helped through the project. And then we got to see the women's home where these women were being trained up to actually have some skills and, and be able to use those skills to get jobs and start businesses and we're able to see the first graduation in that building.
- [41:26]
D
Yeah, I was not prepared actually when we pulled up to that building and knowing just how much a part we got to play in it. But really all of you as well, because you purchased the book. So to walk up and see this gorgeous building and these girls that were dressed up with their graduation gowns, and all their little kids are just. They bought them all T shirts that said, you know, way to go, Mom. Bravo, Mom. And as we were sitting there, I was even thinking about, wow, these children don't even know who their father is. Many of them came because these girls were in the red light district. But I thought, now these women know their true father, and God can be a father to all these little children. And it was just overwhelming. I really cannot describe how powerful it was and how meaningful. And what was really cool was at the end of the trip, we had brought four of our youngest children because Francis liked to joke and say, we want you guys to know where your inheritance went. But we brought. It's not a joke, right? But at the end of the trip, I asked my girls. I was just having a little, you know, coke with my. With the two girls that went. And they. I said, what was your favorite part of this trip? You know, we'd been there for, you know, eight or nine days. And they both said being at the women's home and watching the graduation just was really powerful to them. So, anyways, we just want to say thanks to God for letting all of us be part of what he wants to do. He wants to rescue people. He wants to redeem their lives and to bring people from darkness to light. And we got to witness it, and there's just nothing better.
- [43:16]
A
Yeah, I wish you could have been there to watch these women celebrate. You know, jumping up and down, singing, dancing, and. And I'm just thinking, whoa. A year ago, they were sitting in a little room, terrified, as guy after guy comes in. The kids are under the bed, and just, what's this guy gonna do to me? What's this guy got? Just. They would describe the horrors of that life. And now I'm watching them, these beautiful women just jumping, glowing with this future and this hope and this love for Jesus. To see this whole village come out just for, you know, to celebrate little Sophie and what God had done in her life and the way they were worshiping now, this village worshiping, and to go, wow, we got to be a part of that. And. And so one of those benefits that we didn't think about was just watching our own children celebrate with us and explain to the older ones, like, you're making money now. Like, you see what we've done with our money, and there's no regrets. Like, you see how full this life is. Go and do the same. Use your gifting. Make some money. Don't spend it on yourself, invest it in people, invest it in the kingdom and you'll be great, grateful forever.
- [44:43]
D
Yeah, it's such a privilege to just watch God at work all around the world and to really know. It's so good to get outside of our just small what we see right in front of us, our own neighborhood, our own community, and to remember like, wow, there's brothers and sisters that are in every part of the world. Like God says, every tribe, tongue nation, I will have people. And so to go and watch them work for the Lord and watch how the gospel changes people's lives, what a privilege. And you can know with confidence that God is at work. You know, we watch the news and it looks like, man, everything's going crazy, but God is at work. And don't lose hope, you know, keep fighting for what is on God's heart and believing that he's orchestrating something really beautiful.
- [45:37]
A
Yeah. It would take hours to download everything that we've experienced and want to share with you, but we just wanted to give a quick thank you for those of you guys who have supported the ministry or purchased the book. And hopefully it's gotten your marriage and your family on the mission that God's called you to.
- [46:02]
B
Thanks for listening to the Crazy Love podcast. If today's conversation challenged you and you want to go deeper, visit youandmeforever.org there you can order Frances and Lisa's book, you and Me Forever, watch chapter videos, explore bonus content, and learn more about the mission behind it all. That's youandmeforever.org thanks again for joining us on the Crazy Love podcast.
- [46:26]
A
Sa.