Crazy Love Podcast – “Staff Talks with Francis: Embracing the Unseen”

Date: April 6, 2026
Host: Crazy Love Ministries
Main Speaker: Francis Chan

Episode Overview

In this episode, Francis Chan leads a candid discussion with the Crazy Love staff, diving into what it truly means to be “stewards of the mysteries of God.” Chan challenges the modern church’s tendency toward predictability and control, urging leaders and believers alike to return to a posture of expectancy—where mystery, the unseen, and the presence of God are sought above human structure or performance. The conversation covers practical church life, spiritual gifts, the meaning of true worship, and how churches might rediscover childlike faith in God’s supernatural power.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Living Beyond the Seen—Pursuing the Unseen

• Biblical Call to Focus on the Unseen
  • Chan references 1 Corinthians 2 and 4: “Don’t stare at what’s seen because that’s all temporary. Stare at what is unseen. That’s what’s eternal.” (00:38)
  • He notes how God’s communication and the reality of the Spirit’s work are not always cognitive or sensory:

    “Some of this stuff we take for granted in other places… It’s mind blowing to some people, what we just kind of assume.” (02:00)

• Contrast with the Demonic & Culture
  • He draws a parallel to popular culture, where artists attribute inspiration to spiritual beings, and underlines that believers, too, should expect direct communication from the Holy Spirit.

2. Stewarding the Mysteries of God vs. Managing Church

• Celebrity vs. Servanthood in Leadership
  • Chan observes the tendency to view church leaders as celebrities or content providers rather than as servants and stewards of mystery:

    “If I go to a place to speak, they don’t just consider me a servant of Christ… Usually they want me to bring something new” (04:41)

• Information vs. Mystery
  • He laments that much of modern church revolves around information and explanation instead of the mysterious work of God’s Spirit:

    “You may be hoping to learn something... but it’s information. It’s not mystery.” (05:25)

3. Rediscovering the Supernatural in Church Practices

• Benediction and Sacraments
  • Citing Numbers 6 and 1 Corinthians 11, Chan calls listeners to rethink familiar practices like benediction and communion, emphasizing their mystical nature:

    “Do I really believe that when I come to a gathering, it’s time for a benediction, something happened there, something mysterious that I wouldn’t get somewhere else?” (07:45)

  • On communion:

    “That’s why the ancient church is like, no, something with the breaking of the bread and eating the flesh, drinking the blood... Do we understand what happens when we come together?” (10:07)

• Impartation vs. Content
  • He stresses the difference between merely hearing a sermon and experiencing spiritual impartation through embodied presence:

    “There’s some sort of impartation that is human, that AI will never reproduce, because I’m made in his image.” (09:45)

4. Authentic Love as the Mark of God’s Presence

• Church Known for Love
  • Chan challenges the lack of churches known for their love, referencing 1 John 4:

    "When we love each other... he somehow made manifest among us." (15:35)

  • He comments that loving community creates a “temple of the Holy Spirit... invisible but real.”
• Avoiding Familiar Ruts
  • He cautions against forming preferences for leaders or worship styles, noting how easily church turns into another predictable, controlled environment rather than a place of wonder.

5. Practical Church Leadership: Avoiding Predictability

• Illustration—Waco Wave Machine vs. Real Ocean
  • Chan compares safe, formulaic church gatherings to artificial wave machines and contrasts them with the unpredictability and thrill of surfing real ocean waves:

    “We want church service like the Waco wave... but honestly, I’d rather be at Taco Bell in Compton with a chance that I’m with a few people that just want to experience the presence of God over a crunchy taco.” (22:33, 24:24)

• Mission Drift and Tradition
  • He warns of becoming dependent on what “works” and drifting into tradition, rather than seeking risky, faith-filled obedience.

6. Embracing Mystery as Pastors and Leaders

• Trembling at the Word
  • Chan urges preachers not only to teach but to be transformed by the Word themselves:

    “It’s not just preaching the word of God, but trembling at the word of God and believing it’s doing something to me.” (25:55)

• Eagerly Pursuing Spiritual Gifts
  • He reminds leaders to expect spiritual gifts from every member and creates space for them to operate, recounting stories of healing and the tangible move of God in their ministry:

    “We’re to eagerly pursue these things, and that means every person in our church... has a spiritual gift to impart. And we got to believe that.” (27:30)

7. Regaining Gospel Imagination & DNA

• Raising Vision, Not Just Operations
  • The team recognizes the need to “inject fresh DNA of vision” into church networks, rather than endlessly troubleshooting logistics:

    "When you do, like, these types of talks, it injects, like, fresh, like, DNA of vision, you know, into, like… groups. And I think that's the thing that's been lost a lot." (32:59)

• Imparting, Not Just Organizing
  • They discuss the value of gathering leaders to pray, receive vision, and build unity, rather than focusing solely on decision-making and routine.

8. Living Out Spiritual Gifts Through Love

• Purpose and Service
  • Chan closes with a story from Pepperdine, advising that people discover their spiritual gifts through loving those around them, not through introspective searching:

    “You don't find your purpose by sitting on the beach asking God, what is the purpose of my life? It’s by looking at the people right in front of you, trying to love them in some significant way… and then the Holy Spirit gives you a gift for that individual...” (36:10)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Do we really believe that there is a spiritual, unseen thing that can happen here that can’t happen anywhere else? And that’s why I’m coming here. That’s why I’m gathering.” (11:40) — Francis Chan

• “We’ve reduced church to something predictable... Have we lost sight that we’re meant to be stewards of the mysteries of God?” (00:07) — Francis Chan

• “I want the mystery. That’s what I was saying to the crowd. I go, really, this is enough? Don’t you want to leave and just go, whoa, what happened to me in there?” (16:53) — Francis Chan

• “My human nature just, you know, get me up there... I know it won’t suck. But... I’d rather be at Taco Bell in Compton with a chance that I’m with a few people that just want to experience the presence of God." (24:24) — Francis Chan

Notable Timestamps

• 00:05 — Introduction: Have we reduced church to something predictable?
• 00:38–05:50 — Biblical teaching on the unseen vs. the seen; the supernatural impartation from God vs. human effort.
• 07:45–10:10 — The mystical reality of benediction, communion, and impartation in church gatherings.
• 15:35–16:53 — Loving community as the true sign of God’s presence.
• 19:17–20:05 — Breaking out of “explainable” church and longing for the unexplainable.
• 22:33–24:24 — “Waco wave” illustration: predictable church vs. faith-filled risk.
• 25:55–32:59 — Stewarding mystery, trembling at the Word, and practicing spiritual gifts.
• 32:59–34:47 — Real church “DNA” and the importance of vision over operations.
• 36:10–37:18 — Discovering spiritual gifts through loving service, not introspection.

Conclusion

In “Embracing the Unseen,” Francis Chan calls both leaders and congregants to return to a supernatural expectation of God’s presence and work. Rather than managing or controlling church life, he urges everyone to pursue mystery, genuine spiritual gifts, and deep love. This requires an intentional shift away from predictability and routine toward risk, waiting, and openness to what the Holy Spirit might uniquely do in each gathering and relationship.