The Most Dangerous Kind of Christian | Francis Chan

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Crazy Love Podcast

Episode: The Most Dangerous Kind of Christian | Francis Chan

Date: February 16, 2026
Host: Crazy Love Ministries
Guest: Francis Chan

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Episode Overview

In this powerful episode, Francis Chan confronts the increasing uncertainty and chaos in our world, urging believers to examine their faith with honesty. Drawing from scripture, Chan challenges listeners to move beyond comfortable or “lukewarm” Christianity and to ask themselves if their faith is truly alive—if they actually know Jesus or are just playing at religion. He threads the conversation with images of end times, personal stories, and an emotional call for authentic relationship with God, making a passionate case for an eternal perspective in all circumstances.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Growing Uncertainty – The World in Crisis

• The conversation opens with reflection on how rapidly life can change because of disasters, tragedies, or unexpected events, emphasizing that “everything can change in one second” (01:46).
  • Francis Chan:
    “We know that everything can change in one second. And we also know that the world, especially our country, is just getting more and more desperate. ...I’m not trying to be an alarmist…but as believers, I don’t think we should just stick our head in the sand.” (01:46)
• Chan urges Christians not to be naïve, but also not to live in fear: the Bible calls followers of Jesus to lift their heads with hope.

2. Hope and Peace in the Face of Fear

• Quoting Luke 21, Chan highlights Jesus’s command:
  • “When you see these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads because your redemption is drawing near.” (02:42)
  • Christians should stand apart from a panicking world because they know the end of the story.

3. Living with the End in Mind

• Chan uses the TV show “24” as a metaphor (04:36). Knowing the main character survives takes the anxiety out of tense situations.
  • “That’s the way we’re supposed to live life. Because for us, we know there’s a season 3, we know there’s a season 3,003 million. And so we go, ‘You know what? What’s going to happen? It’s going to be okay.’” (07:30)
• Christians are to live differently, with a unique confidence rooted in eternity and not in temporary circumstances.

4. What Really Matters? (The Call to Eternal Perspective)

• Chan shares how early losses (his parents dying before his teens) shaped his focus on eternal things.
  • “If all of this can end at any moment, then all I want to do is tell people about eternity…That just seems like all that matters.” (09:14)
• This leads to his decision to go into ministry—a desire to help people see beyond the fleeting and focus on what will outlast this life.

5. The Most Dangerous Kind of Christian: Lukewarm and Unchanged

• Chan gets candid about a growing concern not just for “non-Christians,” but for “church people”—those in pews every Sunday whose lives don’t look changed.
  • “I became more concerned—or maybe equally concerned—with people who attend church every Sunday...I would get to know the people in these quote unquote churches, and I'd look at their lives and go, are you serious?” (10:15–12:02)
• Quoting Matthew 7:21–23, he warns that many self-professed Christians may be shocked on Judgment Day when Jesus says “I never knew you.”
  • “These people…in their mind, they actually think they’re going to heaven…And Jesus says, ‘Depart from me, I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness.’” (13:18)

6. Fruit of True Faith

• True salvation produces transformation:
  • “What I also see in this book is that if a person truly does put all of his trust in Jesus, his or her life is gonna change radically…There were signs of that.” (11:22)
• Chan objects to a comfortable "profess-but-don’t-practice" faith:
  • “I was just taught that as long as you pray this prayer and you know…you’re going to heaven, you’re good. And then I started looking for the ‘pray the prayer verse.’” (14:01)
  • “Do you know Him?” (15:07)

7. Danger of the Popular Path

• He points to Jesus’s image of the narrow and wide roads:
  • “Enter by the narrow gate...the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” (16:30, referencing Matt 7:13–14)
  • Challenges the idea of being comfortable in the majority:
    “When has the right thing ever been popular?...If there’s a narrow road and few will find it, and yet everyone is striving after this fame or being accepted by all these people…” (17:35)

8. Warning to Churchgoers: The Laodicean Church

• The heart of the episode focuses on Jesus’s rebuke in Revelation 3 to the “lukewarm” church of Laodicea—a chilling image for complacency:
  • “You are neither cold nor hot…because you are lukewarm…I will spit you out of my mouth.” (22:12)
  • “First of all, I don’t believe there’s such a thing as a lukewarm Christian…According to this passage…and this whole idea of being spit out of the mouth of God, are Christians spit out of the mouth of God?” (24:37)
• Chan warns it’s easy to feel spiritual if everyone around you is spiritually “bland,” but that’s a dangerous deception.
  • “It’s not that you’re doing anything great, it’s just that everyone else is so blah.” (24:22)

9. Call to Repentance and Real Relationship

• Revelation’s invitation is not to try harder in religious works but to open the door to real relationship:
  • “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I’ll come into him…and eat with him...” (27:43, referring to Rev 3:20)
  • “It's not about you going, okay, I'm going to earn this thing…No, this is about God saying, you don't get it. The heart change hasn't happened. I haven't come into your life yet. That's why you're just like this.” (28:02)

10. Invitation and Prayer

• To those realizing their faith lacks life and deep connection with Christ, Chan echoes Peter’s call in Acts 2:
  • “Repent, Turn from your way of life. Be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins...and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit...” (31:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the difference between real and nominal Christianity:
  • “It's not that you’re doing anything great, it’s just that everyone else is so blah…if everyone’s kind of lukewarm and you just do a little bit more, suddenly, ‘Oh, you’re such a spiritual giant.’” – Francis Chan (24:22)
• On eternal perspective and confidence:
  • “You straighten up, you lift up your head because you know how the story ends.” – Francis Chan (03:50)
• On Jesus’s words to the church:
  • “‘Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven’...that verse just terrified me.” – Francis Chan (12:44)
• On Jesus knocking at the door:
  • “Behold, I stand at the door and knock…You let me in, cause I’ll change everything.” – Francis Chan (29:18)
• On counterfeit comfort:
  • “That road’s not marked hell. That road’s marked heaven…it’s almost like…they just switch the signs.” – Francis Chan (18:05)

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Important Timestamps

• Reflection on life's unpredictability and fear in the world:
  • 01:20–02:42
• Encouragement to not fear and lift your head (Luke 21):
  • 02:42–03:50
• “24” analogy and eternal security:
  • 04:36–07:30
• Testimony: why Francis chose a ministry of eternal focus:
  • 08:30–09:45
• Concern for “church people” and nominal Christians:
  • 10:07–12:07
• Matthew 7: “I never knew you” warning:
  • 12:41–15:07
• Narrow vs. wide road—majority is often wrong:
  • 16:30–18:17
• Laodicean church, lukewarmness, and self-deception:
  • 22:08–25:56
• Invitation to real relationship with Jesus:
  • 27:43–29:18
• Closing prayer and call to repentance:
  • 31:48–34:28

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Tone & Style

Francis Chan speaks vulnerably, blending urgency, personal anecdotes, and biblical authority. His tone is direct but compassionate; he never seeks to shame, but to awaken and invite. Ray (the co-host/interlocutor) lightly interjects, often echoing or underlining Chan’s points.

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Conclusion

Francis Chan issues a strong plea to wake up to the reality of eternity—to move beyond the easy currents of culture and casual churchgoing and to pursue a genuine, transforming relationship with Christ. The most dangerous kind of Christian, he warns, is not the one who openly rejects Jesus, but the one who is comfortably lukewarm, blind to their spiritual poverty. His message: Listen for the knock. Open the door. Everything can change.

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Transcript

[Francis Chan]

Foreign.

[Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Crazy Love Podcast. Life can change in a single moment. A headline, a tragedy, a second you never saw coming. Today, Francis Chan reflects on the growing uncertainty in our world and why Jesus calls his followers not to fear, but to lift their heads with confidence. Francis challenges us to examine whether our faith is truly alive or simply comfortable, and whether we actually know the one we claim to follow.

[Ray]

And I tell you, every time I hang out with Ray, I like him more, you know.

[Francis Chan]

You know how some people, it's like, as you get to know him, it's like, you know, But I don't know, every time we talk back there, it's.

[Ray]

Like, gosh, I love this guy.

[Francis Chan]

But, you know, I come here tonight.

[Ray]

Like, whoops, let's start over.

[Francis Chan]

I come here today video.

[Ray]

I'm not supposed to say tonight because they're watching it tomorrow.

[Francis Chan]

And so we'll just pretend we started all over. Hey, it's good to see you guys. All right. It's good to be back with you.

[Ray]

In all seriousness, it's been a crazy week, right? I mean, just absolutely crazy, crazy week. And it's just you can never get used to seeing how life changes in one second, right? I mean, whether you're working in a fertilizer plant in Texas or watching a marathon or even today I read about that earthquake, big earthquake in China.

[Francis Chan]

And just every. And you think about all the people that are impacted, and we can get in this mode where it's like, okay, see you next week. As though next Sunday, this week's gonna be normal. And yet we know that everything can change in one second. And we also know that the world, especially our country, is just getting more and more, you see, more and more desperate people, right? They just feel hopeless. They just go, I don't even care anymore. I'm just gonna do something stupid. And you just don'. Know anymore. And I'm not trying to be this alarmist. I'm just saying that as believers, I don't think we should just stick our head in the sand and go, oh, no, it's not happening. Everything's gonna be fine. The world's gonna turn around, and we're gonna all start loving Jesus. And, you know, the economy's gonna bounce. No, let's just be real with it. And yet, at the same time, what the Bible teaches is we're not supposed.

[Ray]

To be afraid of it.

[Francis Chan]

Like, there's. At the same time, there's this peace. In fact, I love the way Jesus says it in. In Luke. Luke 21, when he's talking about the end. When he's talking about the end times and how crazy the world's gonna get, he makes this statement. He says, you know, in chapter 21, verse 26, says, People fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. He says, there'll be people that will just. They'll be so terrified, so stressed out, they'll just pass out because they're so terrified of these end time events. But then he. When you see these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads because your redemption is drawing near. I love that. He says, okay, people can be so terrified, stressed that they'll pass out. He goes, but not you. He goes, when you see that happen.

[Ray]

He goes, straighten up and lift up your head because your redemption is drawing near. Like, there's just this sense of, don't you be afraid, though. You straighten up.

[Francis Chan]

Don't you go cowering, worrying about, okay, so let's say the economy collapses. We don't care. We can be content with nothing. We're content with relationships, with each other, with God. It's going to be fine. Our quality of life may even be better. We're okay with that. We know the secret of being content. You know, if we die, we die for us. To live is Christ and to die is gain. And he says, no, no matter what happens, you straighten up, you lift your head up because you know how the story ends. And there's a. That's how we become a light to the world is. We know how it ends. Focus on eternity. Understand there's nothing for us to fear. It reminds me of a few years ago. I was watching this TV show.

[Ray]

Remember that show 24? You know, Jack Bauer, you know, for.

[Francis Chan]

Those who didn't watch it, he had 24 hours to save the world, like eight times. And it happened, like over several seasons, too. What a coincidence. But we didn't have tv, we don't have cable.

[Ray]

So someone gave us season two.

[Francis Chan]

We watched season one, then they gave us season two. And meanwhile everyone else is on three or four and we're watching season two. And I just remember that was the most intense show and you couldn't watch it at night because it's like, oh.

[Ray]

Let'S watch the next episode.

[Francis Chan]

Okay, watch the next one, you know, and you end up in your room for 24 hours. And. But I remember, like, there was this one time, and it was so intense because these terrorists had kidnapped our secretary of defense and his daughter, who happened to be Jack Bauer's girlfriend. And no One in the world knew where they were. And they were streaming this video to these terrorists going, we're about to kill your secretary of Defense and his daughter. And no one knows where they're filming from.

[Ray]

And then Jack finds them, right?

[Francis Chan]

Oh, he figured out every clue. And I mean, it was awesome. He figures out where they are, and he sees them, you know, and knows the location. So he calls into headquarters, you know, hey, I found the location. Send back up. And they're like, okay, we'll be there in five minutes. We don't have five minutes. They'll be dead in five minutes. I'm going in alone, and I'm going, no, Jack, there's so. I know there's like a hundred people in that room. You're not gonna make it. But he didn't care. He had to save us. And he goes in, right? And, you know, your heart starts pounding like, oh, man, there's a guy there. There's five there. What's he gonna do, you know? You know, shoots the first guy. Keeps going. And as I'm watching this and getting more and more just. Just terrified, I realize this is season two. Everyone else is watching season four, and he just signed a contract to do three more seasons. It's like, oh, he's good, you know, and so it's weird how, you know, it's mind game. Suddenly, like, my heart was like, ah, this is cool. And, you know, and it took away some of the thrill just knowing he's gonna be fine. Okay, save your girlfriend, you know, and you just kind of know. And it's still fun to watch. You still get a little tense, but it's just different because you know how it ends, you guys, that's the way.

[Ray]

We'Re supposed to live life.

[Francis Chan]

Because for us, we know there's a season three. We know there's a season 3,003 million. And so we go, you know what. What's going to happen? It's going to be okay. There's going to come a time, right? So we go through life just going, man, there's going to come this day. You don't get it. There's a day when there's going to be no more death, no more sickness, no more worry about any of this stuff, and we're going to walk side by side with our creator, who sent his son to die for us forever and ever and ever. And so, yeah, things will happen in this life, but we kind of know how it ends. And so, yeah, it'll get intense. Yeah, it'll get exciting. But ultimately, we know how it ends. So we live life differently. We straighten up. We lift up our heads and go, you know what? Our redemption is drawing near.

[Ray]

And yes, it's painful, and yes, we're.

[Francis Chan]

Gonna weep, and yes, there'll be difficult.

[Ray]

Times on this earth, but we have a different perspective.

[Francis Chan]

It's an eternal one, man. See, when I look at the way the world is, and I look at just how, man, everything can change in a second. I go, so what really matters? I mean, this is why in high school, when I became a Christian man, I just started looking at everything differently.

[Ray]

And I just go, wow, life can end tomorrow. I don't know that I have tomorrow. And those who know my life know that my mom and dad were dead by the time I was 12. And so you just go, I don't know what. I don't know what's gonna happen.

[Francis Chan]

So you just think about things in light of eternity. In fact, that's why I got into ministry. Seriously, when I was in high school, I'm thinking, wait, if all of this can end at any moment, then all I want to do is tell people about eternity. Like, nothing else really seems to matter to me. And I didn't understand how people could get so into stuff and this and that. When I go, that can end tomorrow. It's over. Tomorrow, our life's a vapor. And again, it's not to be this alarmist. It's actually quite the opposite. To say, it's fine, it's really not that big a deal, but shouldn't we be focused on eternal things? And that's why I started going into ministry. I go, you know, I just want to talk to people about what happens afterwards.

[Ray]

Because to me, that just seems like all that matters.

[Francis Chan]

That's just in my mind.

[Ray]

That's simple logic to me.

[Francis Chan]

And yet, once I got into ministry and once I started teaching people and the more I studied this book, an interesting thing happened. I became more concerned, or maybe I.

[Ray]

Should say equally concerned, with people who attend church every Sunday.

[Francis Chan]

It wasn't just people out there going, oh, you know, I hate Jesus. You know, your morality, your law. One way, that's a bunch of trash. This, that always lead to heaven. You know, of course, I don't believe that, but I was just as concerned as people with people that I saw.

[Ray]

Sitting in seats every weekend. And the reason why I say that is because what the Bible taught, what.

[Francis Chan]

I saw about what Jesus taught was.

[Ray]

Yes, salvation is through him and him alone. Salvation is because of what he did on the cross.

[Francis Chan]

That I understood When I read that book, there was nothing I could do to earn my way up there. And I needed Jesus. And the person who's going to heaven is the person that puts all of their trust in Jesus, not on themselves, but going, man, it's on Jesus. It's on Jesus. What he did on the cross. He was paying for my crimes. He paid it all, you know, and so it's that trust. But what I also see in this book is that if a person truly does put all of his trust in Jesus, his or her life is gonna change radically, that they're not gonna be the same person. You know, at one point they were dead and now they're alive. One point they did not have God dwelling inside of them. And then suddenly they do, and. And things change. In fact, Paul tells the Thessalonians, he goes, I know he called you because I can tell by your life. I saw the way you turned from your idols and all that junk you turned to God. The way you talk about, I can tell it was obvious there were signs of that. The Bible says that if you're a good tree, you're going to produce good fruit. And I got so concerned because I would get to know the people in these quote unquote churches, and I'd look.

[Ray]

At their lives and go, are you serious?

[Francis Chan]

And I know there are people say, well, not everyone changes. You know, maybe you become a believer and nothing really changes for years. And then, you know, maybe there's a little fruit you don't recognize. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You got that from this book? Like, I look and I go, no, it should be different. You know, why? The world criticizes the church, and they do it rightly. I just go, yeah, a lot of times there's no difference. And I became very concerned. In fact, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say, man, this one verse.

[Ray]

Just terrified me.

[Francis Chan]

In Matthew 7. Really? That whole chapter. But when Jesus says in Matthew 7:21, he says, not everyone who says to me, lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven on that day, many will say to me, lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast down demons in your name, do many mighty works in your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you depart from me.

[Ray]

You workers of lawlessness.

[Francis Chan]

I read that. I go, man, so there are people at the end, on Judgment Day, they die. You know, they sing the songs in church. They show up, they see Jesus and they go, lord, Lord. And Jesus say, I never knew you. These people, in their mind, they actually think. They believe they're going to go to heaven. And they go, lord, Lord, here I am. And, hey, didn't I do this? Didn't I do that? And Jesus says, depart from me. I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness. Not everyone who says to me and just calls me Lord is gonna get into the kingdom of heaven. It's him who does the will of.

[Ray]

My Father who is in heaven.

[Francis Chan]

And I just started getting scared. I go, well, I was just taught that as long as you pray this prayer and you know or raise your hand or something like that, you're going to heaven, you're good. And then I started looking for the. Pray the prayer verse and raise your hand verse. And I'm going, that's not in there. This is what Jesus. He talks about denying yourself, picking up. I started getting concerned, going, man, is this the real thing? And honestly, as I'm driving here, you know, man, I love Bayside. I love hanging out. I love when I can just come, have a good time. We'll get fired up about something and walk out. But as I'm driving, my heart's just heavy going, gosh, Lord, I think you're asking me to deliver a pretty heavy message today about wondering, man, I just want to know if you're for real. Like, not that I can know, but, you know, because he says, there's those. They do stuff. They may fill up a shopping bag and bring it and do these works. Go, man, don't you remember God? I brought that big old bag full of canned goods and I did two of them. You know, I did this, I did that. I tithed. And then he says, you know what? I never knew you. Like, Like. Like, do you know him? Like, you think about this. This isn't for me to judge or anything else. I'm just concerned. Like, do you know him? Like, the Bible talks about, when the Holy Spirit comes into your life, there's this relationship where your. Your very spirit cries out, daddy, like, abba, Father. Like, I know you know me. I know you love me, and I love you, and. And we talk, and I. I love those times when I'm alone with you and there's no one else around. Like, I'm in love with you, and I know you're in love with me. It have that. Do you see the fruit in your life where it's like, wow, you know, look at. Look at who I was, man. And look at how Christ has changed me. And look at this new joy and this peace, fearlessness. Like, I know I'm good. Like, is that you? Or is it just like, I go to church and I don't know, it's just I look at these passages and I get concerned because this is Jesus speaking. It's not me speaking. This is Jesus speaking. And here's the thing is sometimes we almost feel confident when we're a part of the majority.

[Ray]

You know, how. You know there's strength in numbers.

[Francis Chan]

You know that old saying. And yet I look at Scripture and look what Jesus says just a few verses earlier. In verse 13, he says, Enter by the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction. And those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life. And those who find it are few. So those who would say, oh, Francis, you're just getting old, you know, this or that. Look, you know, most of us are like this. We don't really. We just kind of show up to church and we do a few good things and. And you feel comfortable because, well, this is what everyone does. And my question to you is, when has everyone been right? Can you name one time in the Bible when the majority was right? Seriously, think of one time in human history when the majority was right? No. And then Jesus very words are, you know what? There's a narrow road that leads to life and few will find it. Yet there's this wide, easy one that everyone's going to go down. That's why, man, I know some people want to do the popular thing. Whenever I do something that's popular, I get nervous. I do, because I go, man, when has the right thing ever been popular? And he says, look, if there's a narrow road and few will find it, and yet everyone is striving after this.

[Ray]

Fame or being accepted by all these people.

[Francis Chan]

And I look at that verse and.

[Ray]

I go, man, Jesus said that the gate's wide, it's easy, that leads to destruction, and yet that road is not marked hell. That road's marked heaven.

[Francis Chan]

Right?

[Ray]

You know, it's like, you know, when you watch, you know, Tom and Jerry or something, and they're in a race and they change the sign from, you know, broken bridge to this is where.

[Francis Chan]

You should run, you know, and it's almost, you know, like someone said, they just switch the signs. They just put this wide, easy road, this leads to heaven. Everyone goes to heaven. You ever been doing a memorial service? Where the guy didn't go to heaven, we all go there, right? You know, everyone's in a better place. It's easy, it's wide. We're all going there. And yet what does Jesus say?

[Ray]

He goes, no, no, no, no. There's a narrow road that leads to life and Fee will find it. And I'm going, jesus, this is serious stuff. This is all that matters.

[Francis Chan]

And.

[Ray]

There'S a lot of people going to church today, this weekend, next weekend. There's just tons of people go to these services. And I get concerned because I read the Scriptures and I go, man.

[Francis Chan]

It'S.

[Ray]

So hard not to just go with the flow and the general teaching today. You know, in the book of Revelation, there are these letters. And I thought about this one time. I thought, man, what if I live in one of these cities? See, there were certain churches that Jesus wrote to in Revelation 2 and 3. He wrote personal letters to specific churches.

[Francis Chan]

Can you imagine if Bayside church got.

[Ray]

A personal letter from Jesus to say, you want the truth about what I think about that church? You want the truth about what I like and what I don't like?

[Francis Chan]

Like, would you even wanna know? You know, like, someone's like, ah, you know, like, it would be intriguing to say the least. Well, here, these churches, they each got.

[Ray]

A letter from Jesus, and Jesus would.

[Francis Chan]

Talk about what he liked, what he didn't like. And there were some churches where he says, man, everyone's so fake, but there's a few of you. There's a few of you that are holding on. And then other churches. One of the phrases that really hit me the last two weeks, I feel like God's been just repeating it in my. This is Revelation 3 about the church in Sardis where he says, strengthen what.

[Ray]

Remains and is about to die. Like, that phrase has been in my head.

[Francis Chan]

Because if I'm honest, there are areas.

[Ray]

In my life that have grown that I go, God, thank you. I've changed. Change for the good.

[Francis Chan]

But I also see areas in my.

[Ray]

Life that have been slipping, you know, And I've been hearing this phrase, strengthen what remains and is about to die. I see this side of me where.

[Francis Chan]

Man, I used to be fearless in what I would and just lay it out there, like, I don't care, you know, I would just go. And there was, like, this faith and, like, no, I can't die, you know, until it's my time. Like. And I started seeing doubt and I started seeing this fear and this concern about criticism and wanting to be liked. And yet it was still in there, this fire. And I just felt like God was saying, just like you said, that church.

[Ray]

Strengthen that back up. It's about to die. Don't you let it die, Francis. Don't you let it die.

[Francis Chan]

You know? And so that's what he's been speaking to me. That's why I don't think these are just letters for back. Then. I go, no, these are messages for today. And I think about this church in Laodicea, and I go, gosh, that feels a lot like our country. And having traveled the world and seeing how believers act in other places, I read about Laodicea and go, ooh, that feels very American in some ways, not to be down or negative, whatever. I'm just out of concern. It's this church. And he says to them, he says, I know your deeds. You are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you.

[Ray]

Out of my mouth.

[Francis Chan]

Okay, what does that do? Like, you've got a word from Jesus.

[Ray]

Saying, hey, I know your deeds.

[Francis Chan]

You're not hot, like, just on fire for me. And you're not anti Jesus. And, oh, we hate everything about. You're just lukewarm. And he says, because you're lukewarm, I'm.

[Ray]

Gonna spit you out of my mouth.

[Francis Chan]

And I thought, wow, what if I.

[Ray]

Lived in that city? What if you lived in that city of Laodicea and everyone was just lukewarm? Everyone in the church was just lukewarm. Everyone was just like, yeah, we love Jesus. Yeah, he's good. And we do a few things here and there.

[Francis Chan]

Like, how would you know that you're lukewarm?

[Ray]

You know, in some ways, like, if.

[Francis Chan]

You don't have that, you know, other than looking at the word, but. But everyone around you is kind of like the same thing. Kind of that wide, easy road. Oh, we're all just kind of floating along. I go, man, what if I was there? Would I know enough to look at the word and go, no, I see where everyone else is going. I'm not going there. You know, I'm not going to be spit out of his mouth. And I started thinking, gosh, you know, what could this be? It's kind of like. I mean, I've shared this before, but it's like when I went to Hong Kong and, you know, years ago, and my grandma would take me to all of our relatives, and everyone that saw me would say, you know, I know, and. But what it means what everyone was Saying when they would take one look at me was, wow, he's so big. Okay, look at me, okay? And I didn't have the heart to say, it's not that I. So big, you know, you so richo, you know, you guys are all so tiny, you know? And it makes me think about this church in Laodicea, you know? See, that's where I go. I go, man, if everyone's kind of lukewarm and you just do a little bit more, suddenly, oh, you're such a spiritual giant.

[Ray]

But what if you're living in Laodicea?

[Francis Chan]

You know, it's not that you're doing.

[Ray]

Anything great, it's just that everyone else is so blah.

[Francis Chan]

And that started to freak me out because I look at scripture, I go, you know what?

[Ray]

I don't want to get caught up in this thing.

[Francis Chan]

That's a terrifying verse. I don't see why people don't get.

[Ray]

Concerned about some of these passages where.

[Francis Chan]

It says, you're not hot or cold. I'm going to spit you out of my mouth. And I hear people say, oh, yeah, I'm lukewarm. I'm like, what, are you kidding me? You can just kind of casually say that I'm a lukewarm Christian. First of all, I don't believe there's such a thing as a lukewarm Christian. According to this passage. And this whole idea of being spit out of the mouth of God, are Christians spit out of the mouth of God? I mean, this spit is like this gagging, like, ugh, you disgust. Ah. It's like getting a drink. You think it's hot, you know, or you think it's cold coffee. And it's just. It's just like this little. Ah, that's not what I was expecting. It's that idea of, oh, this is disgusting to me. I'm going to spit you out of my mouth. In fact, he goes on and he says, for you, say, oh, I'm rich. I've prospered. I need nothing. Not realizing you're wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked. He goes, you're not rich. You're not doing fine. He goes, I want to spit you out of my mouth because you're wretched. He goes, is that how he talks to believers? Is that what he calls me? Is.

[Ray]

He goes, oh, there's Francis, that wretched.

[Francis Chan]

Pitiable, you know, blind, naked.

[Ray]

Oh, but he's my son.

[Francis Chan]

No, that's not the words he uses for believers. We don't say, I once was blind, I'm still blind. You know, that's not what we sing about. It's about the fact that we've been changed. And that's why he says to this group of people, he goes, I counseled you to buy from me gold refined by the fire so that you may be rich. And white garments so you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen. And salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see those whom I love, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent. So he's saying to these people, he goes, look, you don't get it. You're in this lukewarm state. I'm about to spit you out of my mouth. You're disgusting to me. You're wretched, you're pitiable. You're just so casual. Don't you understand what Jesus says? When someone gets it? When someone understands the kingdom of God and understands the value of God, he says, it's like they found this great treasure, and it was so great, they just, with great joy, goes, here, have everything I have. I could care less.

[Ray]

I want this treasure.

[Francis Chan]

He goes, when you get that, that's when you get me. That's when you get it. You realize, oh, man, I can have God. I can sit on his throne. He and I, forever and ever. This stuff is so lame. Just take it all. It's all rubbish. He goes, that's the person who gets it. And that's why he says to this people, you're not hot, you're not cold, you're lukewarm. I'm gonna spit you out of my mouth, but I'm telling you. He goes, but I love you. And that's why I'm saying these words.

[Ray]

To you, is I want you to turn.

[Francis Chan]

And he goes, and I can actually.

[Ray]

Make you rich, you know, give you true riches. It's not just about finances. I'll make you truly rich.

[Francis Chan]

He goes, I'll clean out your eyes so you can actually see.

[Ray]

I'll give you a white garment to wear so that you can walk in all purity.

[Francis Chan]

I will change all of this. In fact, I love the phrase when he says in verse 20, says, Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens a door, I'll come into him and I'll eat with him. And he with me, the one who conquers. I'll grant him to sit with me on my throne as I also conquered and sat down with my father on his throne. This isn't about. I don't want you to think, oh, yeah, I'm kind of lukewarm. I'm go out, I'm going to grab five bags. You know, I'm going to go do this, I'm going to do that. It's not about you going, okay, I'm going to earn this thing. I'm going to work harder. No, this is about God saying, you don't get it. You don't get it. The heart change hasn't happened. I haven't come into your life yet. That's why you're just like this. Lukewarm. You're not hot, cold. He goes, but I'm knocking right now. He goes, behold, I stand at the door and knock. Can you hear my voice right now? Can you hear my voice to say, you know what? You've never had a real love relationship with me. It's been religion. You're trying to mass this, mass that, and do a few good works here or there. But you've never really known me. But I'm knocking on the door, I want to come into your life. I want to change everything. I want to open your eyes. I want to give you this power where you start putting to death the deeds of the flesh, where it's no longer, oh, I got to pray, it's that time of day. But it's like this love where it's like, oh, Daddy Abba, Father, I love you more than anyone. Who else would I want to be with? And earth has nothing for me. It's all about you. He goes, I want to come into your life.

[Ray]

And I'm knocking at the door, you let me in, cause I'll change everything.

[Francis Chan]

Everything.

[Ray]

And the very last phrase he says is, he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Jesus is the only one in scripture that uses that phrase, he who has an ear, he has let him hear. Because he's explained in other places that not everyone's going to hear the message. You know, just go in one ear, out, the other people will hear it. Go, yeah, yeah, I'm still lukewarm. Like, I go, how can you just.

[Francis Chan]

Casually say you're lukewarm?

[Ray]

Like you're just casually, yeah, I'm gonna get spit out at the end.

[Francis Chan]

It's like, how can you do that?

[Ray]

But not everyone hears the message. And that's why Jesus would just say, he who has ears, let him hear. He didn't try to convince someone, talk them into something, but he did know that sometimes God sets things up. Not coincidentally, Acts 17 says he's very Purposeful in the exact time that he puts you in a certain place because he's drawing you to himself and it says so that you might feel your way toward him and actually find Him. And I believe there's some people in this room. I'm hoping. I'm praying, I've been praying that there's some of you in this room that go, I heard what he said, and he was talking about me. I've gone to church, maybe grew up in church. I'm not in love with Jesus. It's not everything to me. There's so many things I've been holding on to that I just don't. Not ready to let go. But I heard the message today, and I get it now. And if Jesus Christ really did die on that cross for me and really does offer for me to repent, to turn from my ways and follow him, and he's going to come into my life, and I want that. I want that, then I would say to you the same thing that Peter said years ago, 2,000 years ago, after his first sermon. It says people were cut to the heart and said, what do I need to do? Like they were so. Like they heard. They had ears to hear. And they go, what do I need to do? And Peter said, repent, Turn from your way of life. Be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins. You just saw the video on baptism. If you got here on time, you know, be baptized, he says, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you, your children and those who are far off, those who will be listening 2,000 years from now. You repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins and receive the Holy Spirit. And maybe there's some of you today who just say, you know what? I'm ready for that. No more games. I don't really know him. I'm not ready to face him. I'm not at peace with where the world's at. I gotta get right with him. And if that's you, we're gonna give you an opportunity to tell someone today about your decision. But I want to pray for you right now. And in fact, would you just bow your heads right now?

[Francis Chan]

And those of you who already believe in God, just start praying for the ones who don't. Those of you who know you're secure in Jesus, you love him. He has changed you start praying for the people. He hasn't changed. God, I ask that you would move right now. God, please, please just draw people to yourself. Help them to see how beautiful you are. Help them to see that nothing else matters. Not that they would just add you to their pile of stuff, but they.

[Ray]

Would see that you are better than everything and you're all that matters. That they would just realize that they can follow you.

[Francis Chan]

They could get you. So some of you who believe that God's calling you today and he's knocking on the door, maybe you can even just pray to him right now and say, God, I want you in my life. Let him know, I know, I know I've sinned against you. I know I've rebelled against you. And I believe that Jesus died on that cross for me. Believe it and tell him. I want you to enter in and have relationship with me to where everything changes. Because I don't want this sin in my life.

[Ray]

Father, I pray that people really do come to know you today and fall in love with you today so that they will be with you forever. In Jesus name I pray.

[Podcast Host]

Amen. Thank you for listening to the Crazy Love Podcast. Join us next week for a new episode, but until then, for more resources from Crazy Love Ministries or to support the work of Crazy Love, please visit our [e-mail].