The Source of Security | Francis Chan

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Crazy Love Podcast

Episode: The Source of Security | Francis Chan
Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Crazy Love Ministries
Guest: Francis Chan

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on the source of true security for Christians. Francis Chan explores the critical difference between finding security in personal achievements and resting in the finished work of the cross. The discussion deeply examines what it means to have an identity rooted in being known and loved by God, rather than in ministry success or public perception. Francis calls listeners back to genuine rest, obedience flowing from faith, and a humble, honest relationship with Jesus.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Being Known By God (00:49 – 03:05)

• Francis and the co-speaker reflect on the awe-inspiring reality that God knows every detail about us—our actions, thoughts, struggles, and motives.
• "[God] knows, like he perceives from afar. The Bible says he knows when we sit, he knows when we rise." (Francis Chan, 00:58)
• Francis shares his backstage prayer, asking God to help him speak out of honesty and obedience rather than self-preservation.

2. Obedience Rooted in Proper Identity (03:30 – 04:26)

• The assigned topic is "obedience birthed by a proper identity." Francis admits this is an area of lifelong struggle, dealing with insecurity and striving for security through achievement.
• He recounts a personal anecdote about mindlessly eating his favorite meal while distracted by work, missing out on enjoyment—a metaphor for missing the joy of God's presence while being caught up in busyness and achievement.

3. From Achievement-Worship to Enjoying Jesus (05:39 – 06:53)

• Francis underscores the danger of worshiping achievement instead of Jesus, drawing from David and Solomon’s prayers in the Old Testament.
• “You’re worshiping achievement rather than worshiping Jesus... The one thing [David] asked for: Just let me gaze upon your beauty.” (Francis Chan, 06:41)

4. Rest in the Love of God (08:58 – 09:44)

• Francis contrasts the value of diligent work with the darker side of working to prove worth to God or others.
• He confesses the temptation to find security in ministry success and numbers, warning against relying on accomplishment rather than the cross.

5. Righteousness and Rest in the Cross (09:44 – 13:12)

• Francis powerfully illustrates the love of God through Christ’s sacrifice, emphasizing that righteousness comes through Christ, not effort.
• He references Philippians 3: “All of my good works, everything I’ve ever done, I might as well just craps [sic] and hand it to God.” (Francis Chan, 12:07)
• He underscores the need to put aside self-righteousness to be “found in Christ.”

6. Insecurity, Comparison, and Identity (15:32 – 17:10)

• Francis discusses the impact of social media on insecurity among young people, drawing parallels to ministry leaders comparing themselves to high-profile pastors.
• “You just start looking at your own life, and you’re like, man, I did nothing.” (Francis Chan, 17:27)
• He humorously admits even feeling, “All you gave me was you made me sexy, you know? And that’s it.” (Francis Chan, 17:10)

7. The Biblical Foundation of Being Known (17:27 – 19:56)

• Chan reflects on Jeremiah 1:5 and the comfort of knowing God appointed each person before birth for a unique purpose.
• “Does that matter to you?” (Francis Chan, 18:24) — challenging listeners to let God’s personal knowledge be their security.

8. Security Comes from God’s Presence and Purpose (20:23 – 22:46)

• Francis explores how God not only designed us, but is with us through the ups and downs, referencing Jeremiah, Moses, and Gideon as biblical examples.

9. Relying on God—The Gideon Story (22:46 – 26:03)

• The story of Gideon illustrates the essence of biblical security: having God’s presence is enough, regardless of resources or numbers.
• “Do you have that attitude where you go, you know what? All I need to know is that he’s with me.” (Francis Chan, 25:35)

10. Self-reliance vs. God-reliance (26:03 – 32:51)

• Chan warns against the temptation of “adding more soldiers” (resources, staff, programs) in ministry, referencing 2 Chronicles 16:7 and the mistake of King Asa, who trusted in alliances rather than God.

11. A Call to Radical Honesty and Holiness (35:57 – 39:03)

• Francis confronts hypocrisy and hidden sin among ministry leaders, urging total honesty before God.
• “Some of you are total liars in this room... You know that you don't even know him. You don't even feel the security. You just say it... God sees through that. He knows you.” (Francis Chan, 37:11)

12. Returning to Rest and Worship (39:03 – 44:21)

• The episode closes with an invitation to stop striving, confess, and simply rest in what Christ has accomplished.
• “Rather than resting in the cross, resting in the fact that you’re loved and known by God, just do whatever the Lord's telling you to do... just lying in those green pastures.” (Francis Chan, 43:32)
• Francis highlights “soaking in the grace of God,” suggesting meditation on the cross and embracing being found in Christ’s righteousness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Where are you finding your security? You feel good when you get enough things done... That's what you rest in: accomplishment. Rather than resting in the cross.”
  — Francis Chan (09:24)

• “Rest in the love of God. You gotta learn to rest in the love of God.”
  — Francis Chan (08:58)

• “All your righteous deeds are gonna be like a filthy rag at the end of your life. You wanna do that? You wanna present that to me?... Don’t you want to be found in Christ?”
  — Francis Chan (13:23)

• “The God of the universe knows you. And he knew who you were gonna be before he made you. He designed you for this.”
  — Francis Chan (19:03)

• “What do I need to be afraid of? What am I afraid?”
  — Francis Chan (21:45)

• “All I need to know is that he's with me. That's all I need to know.”
  — Francis Chan (25:35)

• “Right now, the eyes of the Lord are roaming to and fro throughout this room. Like God in heaven knows we're known by him. And he's going, who in there trusts me?”
  — Francis Chan (30:14)

• “I just want the name of Jesus lifted up. I don't even care if it’s me. I don’t care if I get any credit. I don’t care if I’m even a part of the church.”
  — Francis Chan (30:51)

• “If I would rest, if I would learn to taste and see that…God is good…This courage comes in.”
  — Francis Chan (21:45)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:49 – 03:05: The overwhelming reality of being known by God and the honest struggle to act out of faith, not self-preservation.
• 04:28 – 06:53: Story of distraction with food as a parable for missing God’s goodness in busyness.
• 09:44 – 13:12: Vivid depiction of God’s sacrificial love and the call to find rest in His righteousness.
• 17:27 – 19:56: Identity rooted in God, referencing Jeremiah 1:5.
• 22:46 – 26:03: Lessons from Gideon: Security comes from God’s presence, not human resources.
• 26:03 – 32:51: Warning against reliance on strategies, people, or programs rather than God.
• 37:11 – 39:03: Challenge to honesty and confession among Christian leaders.
• 43:32 – 44:21: Final invitation to rest, confess, and “soak in the grace of God.”

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Conclusion

In “The Source of Security,” Francis Chan delivers an impassioned call to pastors, leaders, and believers to abandon self-striving, rest in the finished work of Jesus, and find their security in the fact that they are known, loved, and chosen by God. The episode is marked by candor, urgency, biblical meditation, honest confession, and a resounding challenge to let all ministry and obedience flow out of this place of deep rest and identity in Christ.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Crazy Love Podcast. Are you resting in your accomplishments or in the cross? Today, Francis explains that our obedience has to be rooted in faith, in the finished work of the cross, and our identity in Christ. Without that foundation, we'll find ourselves worshiping achievement rather than worshiping and enjoying Jesus.

[Francis Chan]

Well, I, I don't know. I don't know who comes up with.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

These, these themes, but I love this theme of known. I. I so love this theme.

[Francis Chan]

I just want us to stop for.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

A second and just.

[Francis Chan]

Can we just recognize how huge it is just, Just to be fascinated by the fact that God knows.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

That he.

[Francis Chan]

Knows, like he perceives from afar. The Bible says he knows when we sit, he knows when we rise. I mean, just two minutes ago, I'm backstage, just going, God, okay, you're looking.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

At me right now like, God, you.

[Francis Chan]

Know what's going on in my head, you know, like, you know whether or not I'm willing to just say whatever you tell me to say right now. And even as I'm praying, I'm going, God, you know that I'm not there yet. You know, there's still some of this junk in here that's concerned about what you think, and I won't just say anything. And I'm like, God, change that, man. I want to be that guy like those guys I read about in the Bible. They'll just. They don't care what anyone's going to do to them. They just say it. And God knew. He's just going, man, friends, your heart is not there yet. I'm going, God, get me there, get me there, get me there. Because I don't want to come up here and say what I think you want to hear. I don't want to come up here and say what I feel like saying. I just want to go, okay, God, here's what. Here's my mouth, here's my mind. You know me. You know I'm known by you. So right now, you know the thoughts that have gone through my mind today, I started repenting of some of those things.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Oh, God, you know, you saw that.

[Francis Chan]

You saw that thought. You saw where my eyes went for. Just for that moment. But you saw it. And God said, holy. God saw that, recognize that. And now you see my pride getting ready to come up on this stage and still this sense of self preservation rather than just saying, okay, God, whatever, whatever, go ahead, here we go, here we go.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

And I just go, okay, right now, I feel like I'm set. I'll say, I don't care what you think, you know, it's like, God, I want to do it.

[Francis Chan]

I want to be right in your eyes.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

I want to be right in your eyes. I want to look at this clock that's ticking down at 38 minutes and 52 seconds and go, okay, if that's a countdown of my life, then what would I say?

[Francis Chan]

Would I.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Would I really care if I knew I was going to stand in the presence of God in a few seconds? You think I would care at all what you thought? And those are the thoughts that have been going through my head. Like, just say it. Just say it. Call it out. Throw it out there.

[Francis Chan]

How do you know that's not the end? It's up to him. You just say it.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

The leadership has given me the topic. Obedience birthed by a proper identity. Obedience birthed by a proper identity. And I just. When I saw it, I thought, man, it would be just like God to give me the topic that I have struggled with my whole life. You know, it's like, why couldn't they.

[Francis Chan]

Have said, oh, you're gonna talk on God is holy and you're gonna die any second. It's like, oh, I got that one. You know? But identity. It's this whole, like, doing what we do because we know who we are. Like, that's what I've struggled with. I've struggled with security. I've struggled with being insecure. I still do. It's a fight, man. This is exact stuff. I mean, it's perfect timing. Cause I feel like it's exactly what.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

God was teaching me in the last week.

[Francis Chan]

Last week, I was doing some writing, and over by where I write is.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Like, this amazing Chinese food place. And so I got some takeout of.

[Francis Chan]

Just the creepiest Chinese food. Brought it, you know, I mean, this.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Is my favorite place to eat on earth right now. Okay, so I get some takeout. It's just me. Just me, the Lord, you know, I got my laptop, I'm emailing, I'm writing, and I got all these things going on and bring my food back. And I'm just going at it, going at it and doing all this stuff. And you ever have one of those times where I look down and my food is, like, almost all gone, and I don't even remember taking a bite. You ever do that?

[Francis Chan]

And I just look down, I go, no. Like, I just ate, like, three fourths of this thing, and I didn't even taste it. I wasn't even thinking, you know, And I'm gone. It was like a. I know this sounds so dumb. But it's like a panic. Like, I never get to eat this. And now I'm almost full, and I didn't even taste it or enjoy it. And it took everything in me to close my laptop, you know, shut off my phone and go, I'm gonna taste.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

The rest of this.

[Francis Chan]

You know, I'm not gonna think about anything else.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Excep.

[Francis Chan]

And I just started going, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, and just. I wanted to savor the rest of it. And I just felt like, man, that was the exact thing God was teaching me this morning. You know, that morning where he was just going, francis, this is what you always do. You're, like, running. You're doing this, you're doing that, you're doing all this, and you don't stop and just taste that. The Lord is good. You know, you're always trying to achieve something else. And it's like you're worshiping achievement rather than worshiping Jesus. And you're just going after, and you're praying. You're praying. You're praying, like, these prayers of Solomon, which are good. Remember Solomon? What's the one thing he prayed for? He prayed for wisdom, and I prayed that. But he goes, but what did David pray for? The one thing was, I just wanna.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life. That's the one thing I asked for. Just let me gaze upon your beauty. And we talk about Solomon and what.

[Francis Chan]

A great prayer that was.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

But where did that get him, you know? And David, the man who just says, I just want to be in your presence every day. I just want to dwell in your house.

[Francis Chan]

This is the one thing I ask. I just want to gaze at your beauty. And I don't do that. It's like, I don't just stop and taste. And it was one of those moments where the Lord was forcing me, forcing me. It's like in Psalm 23, where he makes you lie down in green pastures. Like, it's like, you know, I'm gonna make you rest right now. And I think it's just so similar to, you know, with. With. With what's happening with Phil, you know, Wickham, it's just like God just going, just shut up, okay? Just shut up. You know, I mean, it was so cool. We had the best prayer time, you know, Phil and I, you know, I was praying for him, and then. Then he's like, you know, which means I want to pray for you in my head, you know, And I'm like, okay. And he's Just over there going, you know? And it was like, yeah, yeah. And I'm soaking it in like, no, something's happening right now. And going, this is good. This is good. But I felt like it was one of those. This is a common theme where God's just saying, let me just make you lie down here for a second. Would you just close the laptop, turn off the phone, taste and see that the Lord is good. And it was those times, because God knows me and he knows where I go.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

And yes, some of the work is good and we're supposed to work hard. And some of it is because, for me, I get so frustrated with people who are in ministry and this is just my own thing. And that are lazy and are always.

[Francis Chan]

Complaining, oh, I worked too hard. We had, you know, two services this week, you know, that type of thing. And so I kind of rebelled the other way.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

And, like, wow, you sang four songs.

[Francis Chan]

You know, I kind of just go the other direction. And I'm like, no, this isn't how you work. You know? And so there's some of that, but there's this other side of my work.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

That'S just flat out evil. It's just wrong. It's where I think I'm earning something and I'm proving something to God. And it's that wrestle that some of us. Who knows what. It's just flat out sin. And God's just going, francis, stop it. Rest in the love of God. You gotta learn to rest in the love of God.

[Francis Chan]

Like, where are you finding your security? You feel good when you get enough things done, when you've got a big enough group of people following you, now you're gonna feel good. That's what makes you feel good.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

That's what you rest in accomplishment. Rather than resting in the cross.

[Francis Chan]

Resting in the fact that God in heaven watched his son. Okay? Watched his son. Those of you who are parents, imagine watching your son. Your son's looking up at you and he's going, is there any other way? Any other way? Is there any other way? I don't wanna. Is there any way he can just take this cup from me? I feel like I'm dying right now. Look at me, I'm sweating, drunk. Is there any way you can make this cup pass from me three times? Where he says, my soul is grieved to the point of death? Please tell me there's another way. But not my will. Yours be done. The fact that. That God who hears his son saying, not my will, but yours be done, that God answers Isaiah 53, 10. It was the will of the lor. To crush him. It was the will of God to crush his son. When he's screaming out like that for my sake, for my iniquity.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Like, he's.

[Francis Chan]

Going, friends, what more do you want than that? Can't you rest in the.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Just.

[Francis Chan]

Just knowing that he did that for me?

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Like right now, just resting. God watched his son and said, no, this is my will. For your guilt, for your iniquities, I'm gonna make him who knew no sin become sin on your behalf. Why? So that you might be the righteousness of God in him. This is what was gonna determine your righteousness, not your works. Francis, just stop. Just shut up. Just rest. Just lay in this green pasture right now. Do you understand? That's where your righteousness comes from. And how he forced me to that point was when I was meditating on.

[Francis Chan]

On Philippians 3, where Paul says, for his sake, I've suffered the loss of.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

All things and count them as rubbish.

[Francis Chan]

In order that I may gain Christ.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

And be found in him. Just meditating on that thought, that Paul.

[Francis Chan]

Says, look at all my works. He goes, everything I've done, I've done way more than you. You wanna talk about bragging? Let me brag to you. He says there in Philippians 3, you think you've accomplished something, Francis, look what I've done. You can't touch any of this. He goes, yet I look at all of that and I count it. Rubbish. Everything I've ever done. He says, you know the word. It's dung. It's crap. He goes, all of my good works, everything I've ever done, I might as well just CR and hand it to God. He goes, that's what I consider. Here, God. Here's my offering. Here's all of this. He goes, no way. He goes, I count all of my works. That's all it is. So I push it aside, I count it as rubbish in order that. That was the phrase that hit me. In order that I may gain Christ and be found in him. He goes, I have to do that. I gotta look at everything I do and go, oh, that's nothing. That's garbage. So in order that I may be.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Found in Christ, and God's just saying, okay, Francis, what do you want? Want to keep working? You want to keep earning? And what are you gonna present to me?

[Francis Chan]

All your righteous deeds are gonna be like a filthy rag at the end of your life. You wanna do that? You wanna present that to me? You wanna present this plate of rubbish to Me or you want to put.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

That aside so that you can be found in Christ not having a righteousness that you earned, but that comes from him. And it was just like, Francis, lay down. Stop it. Don't you want to be found in Christ? Don't you want to be found in Christ? To where God looks down at you and says, francis, oh, you're perfect, you're perfect. You're perfect. You're just like Jesus, you're perfect. You just took on his righteousness, but you had to put away all of your stuff first. He forced me there. I loved it. I prayed for you. I prayed for you today. Just going, God, I know there are people in that crowd just like me, where you're so insecure and you're working, you're trying to earn something, you're trying to do something and you're worshiping achievement. It's a self righteous thing rather than just enjoying and resting in Christ and finding your identity in him and then working. But then it's fun, it's out of freedom, it's out of joy, rather than this insecurity, trying to earn something. You know, I keep reading these things about Facebook and about how many people are see how the music stops when I say Facebook. He's like, what? But I've been reading this stuff, you know, they talk about how the kids today, they're like facing this depression. Like there's so many suicides and depression and a lot of it's because of Facebook. They go, they look on and they see what they're missing out on. They're going, wow, look at that.

[Francis Chan]

Girl's having so much fun.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

I'm not having that much fun.

[Francis Chan]

You know, look at that guy, look at her. Oh, look at all the cleavage. You know, all of this, seriously. I mean, let's just put the best pictures of us having the best time, looking the best, scandally dress everything else, trying to make ourselves look the best. And others look on and go, I'm.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Not her, I'm not him, I'm not having that much fun. And it just gets them down, down, down, down, down. And they're just like, I'm done. And people feel like they're just gonna lose it, kill themselves, kill other people, whatever. I just, I can't take it anymore. And I thought, you know, it's people looking and seeing, gosh, she gets to do that. I don't get to do that. And I thought about this gathering. I thought, you know, this happens in the Christian world, in ministry, especially now with the Internet, we can look at all of the things that Rick Warren is accomplishing that you are not right. And you discover all the things that Tim Keller knows that you do not know.

[Francis Chan]

You don't even understand them, right?

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Look, hey, let's admit it.

[Francis Chan]

And we start feeling insecure. I get this way. I go, God, I look at Andy Stanley, and he's just a strategist. Why can't I be like that? Why can't I lead people around like that? Why can't I know as much as a piper or a killer? You know, like God, why didn't you give me that? All you gave me was you made me sexy, you know? And that's it.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

You.

[Francis Chan]

Thank you, and you just go. You're like, God, I want this, I want that. I wish I had all of this.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Seriously, man, you talk about insecurity, man, you just start reading all these things and seeing what people accomplished and this and that, and you just start looking at your own life, and you're like, man, I've been talking to the same guy for 10 weeks, and now he's back on drugs. You know, Like, I did nothing. I do nothing. I don't understand. I don't even know what this sentence means that this guy wrote. And you just. We go through our own depression in ministry and own insecurity. And there's one passage that the Lord has repeatedly put in my mind, and it's Jeremiah 1:5, where he says, before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I consecrated you. I appointed you a prophet to the nations. I've preached that verse many times. I love it, where God says, okay, stop.

[Francis Chan]

Forget about this guy, that guy comparing to all these different things. Okay, stop. That he goes, before you were born, I knew you. Does that matter to you? Okay, that the God of the universe that created all of these people is looking at you and said, look, before you were formed in the womb, before I even made you, I knew exactly what I was making. I knew you before you were born. You were known by me. See, this is our identity. Is that God, before I was born, says, look, I need a prophet. Like he says to Jeremiah, before you were born, I consecrated you, appointed you.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

A prophet to the nations. God knew ahead of time what he was making when he made you. He goes, okay, I need someone. I need Someone for catalysts 2014. I need him to come up here at this time. I'm gonna make him. I'm gonna start making him now. This is his 46 and a half. Well, 47 years ago. I'm gonna make a guy. I know exactly who I'm gonna make. Does that mean anything to you? The God of the universe knows you. And he knew who you were gonna be before he made you. He designed you for this. I love that. That you weren't an accident. I wasn't an accident. It's not like I was born and God goes, oh, great. Chinese baby.

[Francis Chan]

Two billion and four. What am I gonna do with this one?

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

It's God going, now we need one more of them. And this is what I'm gonna do. I know him. I know him. I'm gonna give him this gift set. I'm gonna give him this gift set. It's just gonna work in my overall plan and for me to soak that in and go, okay. Before my mom gave birth to me, you knew this. Why am I scared walking onto a stage? You made me for this. You knew me. You knew me.

[Francis Chan]

This is where our security. This is where our joy has to come from. It's just to sit and rest and.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Go, okay, so the God of the universe, he watched his son die for me.

[Francis Chan]

He watched his son cry out, and it was his will to still crush him so that I could become his righteousness. And he knew I was going to accept that. Before I was born, he had these good works that he prepared beforehand that I would walk in them. And he designed me for this. And then in those moments of insecurity, like in verse eight, you know, he tells Jeremiah, and don't be afraid of them. I'm with you. So I'm not alone right now. This is why I can say whatever you want me to say, God, right now. Cause you're with me. You're with me. You perceive my thoughts from afar. Your spirit dwells inside of me. Jesus is right here with me always. To the end of the age, all of this is going on me and God, me and God. And I just gotta dwell on that and focus on this, okay? The God who created me is watching me right now. He knows when I sit, he knows. He knows my thoughts right now. Jesus, who died, suffered for me, and rose again. He's with me, the Spirit of God, who. The Spirit of him who raised Christ from the dead dwells in me. I'm a partaker of the divine nature right now. What do I need to be afraid of? What am I afraid?

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

If I could dwell and soak that in, then suddenly this courage comes in. If I would lay down on those green pastures, if I would rest, if I would learn to taste and see that everything is good. Everything is good. God is good. He's with me. It's like Moses. Moses just says, okay, I don't want to take another step unless you go with me. Right? I don't want to go there. This week in my Bible reading, we kind of read through the Bible in a year at our church. We just all read together, and we're reading the book of Judges, say, the book of Gideon, but it's about Gideon. And I was reading about Gideon, and I love the story of Gideon. You know, sometimes we're like, oh, he had to set out the fleece. And then he did it again. Like, oh, is he doubting?

[Francis Chan]

Was he this?

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Was he that? I'm just going, no, I love the story of Gideon. Cause Gideon's going. He says, where is it?

[Francis Chan]

Judges 6, where he says, angel of the Lord.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

The angel of the Lord. You know, where most would interpret this.

[Francis Chan]

As Jesus himself appeared to him and said to him, the Lord is with.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

You, O mighty man of God. The Lord's with you. The angel of the Lord comes to Gideon and says, the Lord's with you. Can you imagine if an angel came to you tonight and just said, the Lord's with you? If Jesus himself just came up to you and just said, God is with you. Imagine that I'm appearing to you alone at night. God's with you. Okay, that's all I need. That's all I need. That's all I need to know, you know? And Gideon later is like, okay, well, I wanna make sure. Okay? And he goes, hold on here. I wanna make sure God's with me. I'm gonna bring you something back.

[Francis Chan]

And the angels, you know, first of all, I pretty much trust God is with me. If the angel of the Lord came.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Down and said that to me, you know, it's like, okay. Like, okay, prove it.

[Francis Chan]

You know? And so there's a weirdness to it, but he goes and he brings the sacrifice, you know. And the angel, you know, touches it with his staff, the tip of his staff, and fire comes from the rock.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

And he goes, okay, now I know.

[Francis Chan]

I'm like, so the angel wasn't enough? Okay, that's great. Okay. He touched it with the tip of his staff. And then it goes on later on, you know, the story where it's like, okay, were you really gonna give these people into my hands? Let me put a fleece out. Let me put a fleece out and make it wet and everything else dry.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

So God does it.

[Francis Chan]

He's like, okay, don't get mad. God, don't get mad. God, one more thing. One more thing. Okay. Do the opposite. Okay? This time, make this dry and everything else wet. And. And at first, I used to go, come on. What is your problem? But really, I'm. I'm looking at that and going, now.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

I'm reading it differently this week. Where I go, man, Gideon just had to know God was with him.

[Francis Chan]

And once he knew God was with.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Him, he's like, all right, give me 30,000 men. Give me 10,000 men. Give me 300.

[Francis Chan]

I don't care.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

God's with me. We can take him on. We can do anything.

[Francis Chan]

He spent all of his time just.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Making sure God was really with him. You sure this is you? You sure this is your promise?

[Francis Chan]

Cause if it's your promise, I'll go.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Out there by myself. I'll defeat the whole army by myself. Go ahead. And so he's testing, testing. Do you have that attitude where you go, you know what? All I need to know is that he's with me. That's all I need to know. I'll dwindle my army down to 300. When I was reading that story again, God was convicting me. He goes, francis, you've got the 30,000, and you're trying to add more soldiers. You're doing the opposite of Gideon.

[Francis Chan]

You're, like, recruiting. You're trying to get more and more and more and more. Don't you see that I'm all you need? But you keep grabbing. Maybe if you hire another staff guy, maybe you get the right executive.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

No, no, no.

[Francis Chan]

Maybe if you get just a little bit larger of a budget, maybe if you come to Catalyst and you come up with some other trend that's working for other people, maybe there's a book, maybe there's a speaker. Maybe there's just someone you can hire from here, that'll change everything. And I want you to understand if you do that.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

That may be the most foolish thing you could do rather than dwindle your army down and trust in the Lord. You know, there's a verse in the Bible, Second Chronicles 16:7, okay? Second Chronicles 16:7, speaking of King Asa, it says in second Chronicles 16:7. And at that time, Hanani the Seer.

[Francis Chan]

Came to Asa, King of Judah, and said to him, because you relied on the king of Syria and did not rely on the Lord your God, the army of the king of Syria has escaped you. Verse eight, he goes, were not the Ethiopians and the Libyans a huge army with very many chariots and horsemen, yet because you relied on the Lord. He gave them into your hand. For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth to give strong support to those whose heart is blameless toward him. You have done foolishly in this.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

For from now on, you will have wars. He's going.

[Francis Chan]

Don't you get it? You blew it. You so blew it. Because you relied. You relied on someone. You thought, oh, man, if I could just hire that guy, he will change everything. The church is set. If I can get that worship leader, then, oh, we're gonna draw so many people. If we can get that guy preaching at our church, whoo. We're set. We're set. Church is gonna be fine.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

That's exactly what King Asa did. He forgot about the early days where he was just a nobody. And he had this tiny little arm. He's like, God, you gotta save us. You gotta save us.

[Francis Chan]

He goes, remember that?

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Why? Cause you relied on the Lord. And what are you doing now?

[Francis Chan]

Oh, you're recruiting good. You got the King of Syria. You got this guy. You got that guy. He goes, because you did that, and you did not rely on him.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

You're done. And it's such a sad story. Cause then God diseases his feet, or diseases. That's not a verb. He inflicts a disease on his feet, and.

[Francis Chan]

Why can't I be smarter?

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

You know?

[Francis Chan]

But he inflicts this disease on his feet, and it says that what King Asa does, he doesn't cry out.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

The Lord, even then, he gets the best doctors because he's the king. He's been the king for, like, 36 years. He's like, give me the best physicians. Fix my feet. He still won't cry out to the Lord. He made this transition of how in the early days, he would just trust in God because he was a nobody. He had nothing going for him. And so he relied on the Lord, and the Lord delivered him and gave him all these great conquests. But what happened in life? He started looking at his success. Let me rely on this. Hey, why don't you guys join me? Why don't I recruit this guy from over there? And he says, you know what? That's so stupid. Just because you did that, God's not gonna strengthen you. Don't you understand? God's eyes?

[Francis Chan]

Like, right now, the eyes of the Lord are roaming to and fro throughout this room. Like God in heaven knows we're known by him. And he's going, who in there trusts me? He's, like, looking, oh, oh, you're looking for a Youth pastor. And you think that's gonna save. Forget you. Oh, you think a new executive pastor with a good game plan to set these programs forget you? You're still on your face. You're still on your face believing that. All you gotta do is just go, okay, God, I'm stupid. I can't do anything right. I need you so badly. I believe your spirit is in me, God, and I want you to be lifted up. I don't even care if it's me. I don't care if it's another ch. I don't care if it's anyone else in this room. I just want the name of Jesus lifted up. I don't even care. I don't care if I get any credit. I don't care if I'm even a part of the church. I'm just tired of people, the way they talk about you and the way they belittle you. God. I don't care if it's my church. I just want to see a church really loving each other supernaturally, by the power of the Holy Spirit, where if an unbeliever walked in, he'd go, I've never seen love like this. I've never seen people love each other like this. You know, I'm just going, God, I don't care if it's me. I don't. I just want to see it. Because I know. I see it in this book, man, that there's this Holy Spirit power that can cause people to be so madly in love with each other that they don't care about their stuff. Here, take my things. Take my. I don't care. I'm so focused on eternity, and we're so madly in love with each other.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

An unbeliever would walk in and just go, okay. I've had friends before, but I haven't had this kind of family. I've never seen that. And I'm just going, so who's the person in this room that's going, I don't care if it's me. I just want Jesus lifted up. Cause God's going, who care? Who believes in me still? Who still believes in me? Cause I want to strengthen someone.

[Francis Chan]

He's looking. The eyes of the Lord are running to. He's searching for someone. God wants to strongly support someone. It's not like we're begging him to do something he doesn't wanna do. He goes, I'm looking. Would someone just believe in me again? Would someone just rely on me and quit thinking that this is gonna fix it? And this Is gonna fix it. Would you just get back to college? I know who I am. It's the cross. It's the cross, it's the spirit. Let me rely.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Rely on the fact that you know me. Rely on the fact that you're with me. And I believe you can do anything. You know, I told you I've felt insecure at times where I go, God, why, why don't I do other things? Why. Why is my mind. I feel like it's stuck. I feel like I'm not thinking straight. I try to study, and I'm not getting it. It's not. I'm not absorbing things, you know, maybe.

[Francis Chan]

Not as sharp as I.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

You know, you start going in all these different places. Like, Lord, I'm frustrated right now. Because I know even, like at a conference like this, you want to come up with something new. And a couple months ago, I was at a conference, Louie Giglio was speaking, and he was reading that passage in Revelation 4 where it says, day and night, the angels never stop. Like, they never stop saying, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty.

[Francis Chan]

And it hit me when he. I mean, I've heard that passage, preach that passage, but when he said it, it hit me like, they never stopped. Like, right now, those angels are in heaven. Like, right now, those ang right now are in heaven going, he is so holy. God is so holy. You guys even get. You guys don't get who he is. He's so holy. They're just constantly crying out to everyone up there, do you understand how holy is? Do you understand how separate he is? How different he is? And it was like, at that moment, God just helped me realize, man, Francis, what if that's all I've asked you.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

To do on the earth?

[Francis Chan]

Maybe your whole role is just everywhere you go say the same thing, is just look at people go, do you get who we're talking about? Do you understand how holy he is? I know you sing, holy is a lamb. Who was. You just sing. You just say these words. Do you know who you're talking about? Do you get it? Do you get the fact that he knows you every thought right now? Like, he knows, like, that God. Do you understand what it's gonna be like when you see him? Like, if this countdown clock now at 9 minutes, 35 seconds, if I see him in 9 minutes and 35 seconds, do you understand what that moment's gonna be like? If that's a countdown of your life, what would you do right now? Do you understand we underestimate this God? Do you get how holy he is. It's not like you just get up and we're talking about a being where everyone who saw him just shuddered in fear. Even that story of Gideon, after he saw the angel of the Lord, immediately the angel's like, don't worry. Do not be afraid.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

I'm not going to kill you. You're not going to die.

[Francis Chan]

Those were his words.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

You're not going to die. Cause immediately he's like, I'm not allowed to see that. I'm not allowed to see the angel of the Lord. That's the angel of the Lord. I'm dead. Gideon thought that same thing Isaiah thought.

[Francis Chan]

When he came into the presence of God.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Oh, I'm ruined.

[Francis Chan]

I'm a man of unclean lips. He's going to kill me. John. John, the beloved disciple sees Jesus, and he goes, I just. I fell at his feet like a dead man.

[Podcast Host]

Job.

[Francis Chan]

Job just goes, I always heard of you, but now that I see you, I'm just gonna shut up. I'm gonna shut up. I'm gonna repent. And, you know, it's just like everyone that saw him. Do you get it? Like, man, if I saw him right now, if this is the moment, and it's gonna be. It's guaranteed to all of us. We're all gonna face him. Holy, Holy, holy. And if this is my only job on earth is to mimic those angels in heaven and say, friends, that's all I created you for. Okay, maybe you're not a great strategist. Okay, maybe you're not as smart as this guy or that guy. What if your only job was just to tell everyone? Do you get how holy he is? Do you understand this isn't a game. Look, and it doesn't matter. I don't care if you're a senior pastor. You got a big, mega church. I don't care about this or that or whatever else. I don't care how many people look up to you. Do you understand who you are in relation to God? Some of you.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

Some of you are total liars in this room. Okay? Let's face it. And I'm just saying this out of concern, man.

[Francis Chan]

You talk about how you know God and you tell your. Your. Your disciples how you. You got to have this relationship with God. You got to love him. You got to know him. You got to spend your. And you know that you don't even know him. You don't even feel the security. You just say it. You say these things. Look, I've done it. Where you know what to say. You know, what passage to go to, you know, the look in your eyes, everything else but God sees through that. He knows you. And do you know him? Right now I'm convinced there's people in here right now having affairs.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

And I'm just going, are you kidding me right now?

[Francis Chan]

Are you kidding me? And you're gonna keep ministering to people and somehow in your twisted mind think that you're doing the right thing by hiding it so that it's not shameful to the ministry or this or that. And the church needs you. The church needs you. The church needs you to open your mouth and tell the truth before another scandal comes out. Man, I don't say this to judging when man, I just want you right when you come before him, I want you. This is what I pray. Go. God, I pray that people would be so secure in you that they'd willing just to be honest and go. I don't care. Even if my wife leaves me over this, I gotta tell the truth about my life. I'm tired of lying. So I lose my position. But right now I get this picture of God. And If I've got 5 minutes and 47 seconds left, then I'm going to get this thing right with him.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

I want to be known by God. I want to know him. I don't want to take a step out of this sanctuary unless he comes with me. I'm going to set out this fleece. God, you got to be with me. If you're with me, I'll dwindle it down to 300. Do you still have that confidence? You still relying on the Lord? Because as some of you know, I nearly lost my identity a few years ago after I started writing and speaking. And everyone expects something of you. And pretty soon you're just trying to meet everyone's expectations. You get so much criticism, you don't even know how to handle it. You get so much flattery, you don't know how to handle it. You just get all this input. You don't even know what to do in preaching. You're just answering people. And you forget. You forget what got you here. It's cause you just relied on God. Cause you just sat, you stopped and were able to rest and go, wow, God, you know me. You made me for this. You're with me right now. That's all I'm gonna look at. That's all I'm gonna think about. I'm trying to keep my mind pure. I wanna make a covenant with my eyes, Lord, not to look lustfully upon A woman. I don't want those thoughts. I don't want you seeing me doing that. You know me. And you know when I just start doing a bunch of stuff because I think I'm gonna earn righteousness? No, I'm just going to rest in what Jesus did for me. I can't add to that. I'm going to be secure in that. And out of that security, Lord, let me do some great things so that if I were to die three minutes. I'm good with that because I'm right with you, God. Is there anything else you want me to say that I haven't said? His mouth is yours. I'm going to have the worship team come up, and. I just don't want to force anything. Right now. I feel my flesh wanting to take over and try to make something happen. God doesn't need me. He doesn't need me to make you feel guilty or try to pull some sin out of you. He can reveal to you right now. If you don't really know God. Some of you are like me, where you just. You do stuff because you're insecure. Rather than resting in the cross, Resting in the fact that you're loved and known by God, Just do whatever the Lord's telling you to do. Let's just worship him for a little bit. And for some of you, you don't need to be singing. You'd be confessing. Others of you, you don't need to be singing. You need to be resting. Just lying in those green pastures.

[Francis Chan]

Soaking.

[Co-speaker or Interviewer]

In the grace of God. Maybe you just meditate on the cross, Picture Jesus on the cross. After God taught me these things. Last week on Sunday, we took communion. And then after my message, I said, let's take communion again. A lot of churches have two offerings. Let's do two communions. So we just try to do too much rather than just soak in the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Enjoy the cross, enjoy his grace, enjoy being found in his righteousness.

[Podcast Host]

Thanks for listening to the Crazy Love podcast. If this message stirred something in you, we encourage you to go deeper. In his new book, Beloved Francis invites you to see yourself the way God sees you. Chosen, precious, and fully loved. Beloved is available now wherever books are sold. For more information, go to crazylove.org beloved.