← Creative Pep Talk
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- [00:03]
Unknown Host
On the creative journey, it's easy to get lost, but don't worry, you'll lift off.
- [00:11]
Unknown Creative Speaker
Sometimes you just need a creative pep talk. There's this clip of David Bowie, one of many of him kind of pontificating eloquently about what it means to be a creative person and the struggle of that and the aspirations of that. And in this clip, he's talking about how it's really important never to forget that you got into making stuff initially because you just felt like you had potential. You have this feeling that there's something in you that you can, if you try and you work it out, you. You're going to be able to somehow download this stuff out into the world. And there's just this sense, just this urge that there's something for you to put out there. And I totally recognize that it's easy to forget that. But I thought back to, like, when I was even young, starting to think about having a creative practice, having a body of work, that I thought that if I played my cards right, if I navigated the creative journey properly, I should get closer and closer to kind of manifesting whatever is on the inside, downloading it out into the world. And that I knew it wasn't going to be straightforward. I knew it wasn't going to be easy. But if I was taking the steps, if I was doing the work, that I would slowly but surely move that direction. But when I went to do that, it didn't just slot in with the ease that I expected it to. As I went to go download that stuff, it didn't. It didn't feel right initially. It felt wrong in a way that I didn't expect. And so at first, it just kind of causes you to lock up and quit. And in this episode, I want to explore how to get past that initial friction and what to do with it. And how to know, is this good friction or is this bad friction?
- [02:47]
Unknown Host
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- [03:19]
Kaley Cuoco
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- [03:45]
Unknown Host
Go to your happy price. Priceline.
- [03:52]
Unknown Creative Speaker
You know, there's a book called the War of Art and it's by Steven Pressfield. You've probably heard of it. It's mega famous in creative circles and for good reason. And I think the main reason it's so profound and so relevant for so many creative people is because the central idea of this book is that creative work is going to go hand in hand with this idea that Pressfield calls the resistance. And the idea is that we all love the idea of creative work. We love getting into the flow state. We all want to find that ease of just putting ourself out into the world. However, when we go to do that, we hit some unpleasant feelings. We have a resistance to show up. There is a wall that we hit sometimes when we sit down. You know, I like to think of this as what Cal Newport talks about in his books that he talks about. When you're doing cognitively demanding work, there is a, there is a barrier that your brain struggles to make it over. And it's the start of deep work. You have to muscle your way through a 10 to 15 to 20 minute barrier to get into it. And it's one of the reasons he suggests, like, don't go from that deep work state. Once you get in there, you, you don't want to switch contexts. You don't want to then start a call or write an email. You want to time block that area off, even if it's an hour, even if it's 30 minutes or, you know, any, any, any amount of time could be two hours, could be two and a half, two, 15, whatever. You want to block it off for that deep work because there is this cognitive cost to getting in there. And I think that's part of the resistance. But then there's also, there's so many aspects, there's so many unpleasant feelings that come with doing the work that you're supposed to be doing. That is, you know, for me, I look at the big projects that I've done that have made the biggest difference to my creative practice, but also that have felt truest to my creative soul. And they came with so much baggage, so much imposter syndrome, so, so many middle of the marathon moments where I was tired and uninterested and I had to figure out ways to push through it. And so it came with this resistance. It came with unpleasant feelings. In episode 500, I was talking about the five things that I learned that helped me make a podcast for over 10 years and over 500 episodes. And the first of those was that bad feelings don't necessarily mean that you're going the wrong way creatively. And I likened it to when you're driving down the road and you see a wrong way sign on the other side of the road, and it gives you a little bit of panic, like, oh, man, oh. Even if it's not on your side of the road. And that these bad feelings, these quote unquote bad feelings, unpleasant feelings, these. The friction that you feel making creative work, it's easy to interpret them as. This means you're not doing it right. Because it should be easy. It should be flow. It should be just falling out of you. And actually think like, yes, there are times where you show up to the page, you show up to the canvas where it is just flowing. But I don't think that that is a result of just finding the right groove. I actually think that it's often a result of the fact that you have already engaged in resistance, that you already have engaged in that unpleasant feeling. And so in this episode, I wanted to explore, how do you know whether this resistance, this unpleasant feeling, is the kind that says you're going the wrong way? And it's genuinely, you're. You're rubbing up against your nature. You're. You're going against the grain. How do you know if it's one of those feelings or is it the right kind of resistance? It's the kind of unpleasant feeling that is just par for the course. That is part of the equation and the ingredients of making creative work that is super meaningful and exactly what it feels like to slot in and download this stuff. All right, so we're talking about what is the difference between the good kind of resistance and the. The. The unpleasant feelings that are telling you you're going the wrong way. How do you tell the difference between those two unpleasant feelings? Because they can feel pretty similar. And last week I was doing a talk at the Art Museum of Cincinnati, and I was feeling like I was slotted in. I was locked in downloading what was in my soul into the people that were there. And it just felt like that flow in that sweet spot that just feels so good and so right. And so I've been thinking about like, okay, how like, this wasn't easy to get to this place. Like prepping for this. There was a lot of resistance. Why was this the right one? Because I want to just do this every time. I want to be in that sweet spot every single time. And so this has been top of mind for me. I've been trying to figure out what did the resistance feel like this time, because that was the good kind. And I started thinking about, okay, well, I know this one went right because it was really, really me. See, when I go do a talk usually, and this one was different, but usually when I go for a talk, I'm doing one of three types of talks. Depending on the circumstance. It's either an artist talk, which is kind of a portfolio talk, which I do not very often, but sometimes the opportunity just really calls for that kind of thing where I'm going through my work and just kind of talking about it. Sometimes I'm doing a talk that's more like a memoir storytelling kind of talk where it's really just me telling a portion of my story with a takeaway. And then sometimes I'm doing a talk that's more educational, where it's like a list of points and I'm getting into the hyper specific details of breaking down whatever these ideas are. And so usually when I go to a talk, I'm doing one of those three things. Now last week I did all of them at the same time. I just thought, I'm going to do a talk that is just completely owning my ADHD and going all in. Now that sounds like flow. That sounds like locking in. That sounds like being your true self and doing your art your way. And it was, however, it was the product of resistance. It was the product of the fact that I was going to prep for this talk and feeling absolutely exhausted and burnout. Okay, so at the end of last year, all the way, for the past couple months I've been working, doing some deep work on a picture book, like spent probably like 35 work days just painting, really going deep on that. And then I scheduled a bunch of calls first thing in April and all kinds of appointments and catching up with client stuff. And so that was where I was when I was going to prep this talk. I was just absolutely spent. And so the reason why, and again, those are unpleasant feelings, but the reason why I plan to do this maximalist adhd version of the talk was because of those unpleasant feelings. It was because of that feeling of burnout. And it was because doing just the memoir talk, the doing just the artist talk, or doing just the educational talk, all of those things require me to really effort my way to fit into those spots, because it doesn't come naturally to me to be that segmented, to be that constrained. It doesn't really feel natural. But, you know, over the past 10 years, I've been pursuing, doing public speaking. It was really important for me to learn how to do those different methods of talks. It was really important for me to learn how to belong into those various spaces and have the chops to pull that stuff off. But as I got into this moment where I was just exhausted, I knew that I don't have what it takes to effort my way into. Slotting in to that kind of download felt like the wrong kind of slotting in the wrong way. And I knew it. I could feel that bad kind of resistance. On the contrary, I knew if I allow myself to just be the ADHD maximalist I am and do this talk about ADHD in a very ADHD way, I won't have to effort my way at all. I will just have to be present and be me. And so, yes, working all of that out, making those decisions, there was a lot of unpleasant feelings moving through all of that. But it put me in a scenario where once I was on stage, doing this talk about ADHD in this very ADHD unfettered, unmasked way. Felt so good. And I can always tell, you can, if you've ever done talks, you know, you can tell what the audience is feeling. And then after the Q and A was lit, it was on fire, man. We were just jam and having a good time, having a great conversation, and it just felt incredible. And so I started thinking about how did I get into that spot? Because I just want to do that every time. How do I just be myself onto a page? You know what I mean? Because we all. That's what we want. How do I just do that the first time, rather than having to spend 10 years trying to slap myself into all these different boxes in the wrong way? And it reminded me of this story that I heard about Glennon Doyle, who is a memoirist, writing her book Untamed. And she tells a story of working on this book. It being really painful, and she's writing these chapters and she, you know, she's just really. She's so passionate about what she's talking about. She really wants to get it right. She's laboring over this stuff and she sends it to a fellow writer and memoirist of Eat, Pray Love and Big Magic, Liz Gilbert. And she sends her these few chapters and Liz is like, you know, I really like a Glennon Doyle essay. I really like these essay type things that you've written. But I love when you just bleed onto the page, when you are just messy, chaotically spilling your guts onto a page. And these essays for this book Untamed are so tame. What would it look like to show up to the book Untamed in an untamed way? And that's what it felt like to do this pot, this talk in this, this talk about being ADHD and discovering I'm ADHD and what impact that had on my creative life and my life in general. And doing it in this very maximalist ADHD way. It felt like what I have to imagine writing Untamed felt like when she was doing it with an untamed disposition. And I think when you hear that story and when I think about that story, it's easy to perhaps come to a conclusion that is feels obvious but might be learning the wrong lesson. Because when I hear that story I think, oh, what you should have just done is just be yourself from the beginning, just do it the right way the first time. Just always approach it just with your unfiltered raw self. But I actually think that might be the wrong conclusion because as you go to try to download this stuff that's inside and slot into the world somewhere where you can get that out into something beyond yourself, it in my experience, you can't just do it the right way the first time and that's it. And you're locked in. And it reminds me of this meme that I've seen on the Internet a few times that I just love because it's such a true observation. And it's a meme about a USB stick. And the idea is that when you go try to slot in and download the stuff inside a USB stick, the only way to do it, it's a three step process. The only way to do it is put it in, feel a bit of resistance, a bit of friction, switch it around the other way and then try to put it in and feel more resistance, more friction, know that it's the wrong way and then flip it back and then put it in the right way again. And so you got it the right way the first time, the wrong way the second time, but you only actually slotted it in the third time when you realized that that bit of friction, that bit of resistance was the level that you're supposed to feel when it's the right way. And so the, the, the lesson from Glennon Doyle, the lesson from my talk, the lesson from the frickin usb, is that you have to do it the wrong way first to know that the resistance you're feeling is the right kind of resistance when you're going the right way. And for me, the takeaway here is that creative work requires work. It requires not just getting your mindset right, thinking about it right, and then flowing from the get go, it requires doing it the wrong way first. Now this has been true in almost every area of my creativity. So when I think about what's the difference between resistance and the wrong way, you only know by doing both. And so you have to do the work. For me, this looks like this exactly the same thing happened as I learned over the past decade of doing this show, interviewing people, that here's how it went, okay. I would schedule an interview, I would prepare, over prepare, I'd be like Miss Mullins in School of Rock. I find it best to over prepare. And then I over prepare all these questions, really think about it, know exactly what I wanted to talk about. And I would show up to this interview and I wouldn't talk about any of the questions that I prepared, but the interview would be better than I thought it was going to be. And so I thought, okay, well that's gotta be the wrong way to do it. I just wasted all this time preparing all of this friction, like obsessing and worrying about it. That's gotta be the wrong way. Next time I'm not even gonna do any prep. And we're just gonna flow, baby. Cause that's, that's what we did anyway. And then I do the next interview with zero prep and it's just an absolute nightmare, okay? And it's bad. And I'm like, what the heck is going on man? And what I learned was that the first way was actually the right way, even though it was uncomfortable. And it was actually much less uncomfortable than getting into an interview that I hadn't prepared for and it tanking. And so I had to flip that USB stick back around and slot it in, knowing that that friction of over preparing, that vigilance of just doing the research and coming up with ideas of how it's going to go before I go into it. That is the type of friction that is necessary to find that flow, that finding that direction that I didn't see coming that only shows up when I do the prep first, even if I don't use it. And who knows what it is? Maybe it's just a feeling of confidence going into it. I really don't know. Maybe it's having stuff in your back pocket that you can hit while you refine the flow in the middle of an interview that's kind of finding its way as you go. I don't know. But what I learned was I had to do it the right way, the wrong way, and then realize which is the right way and which is the wrong way to do it. And the only way to do that is to do. To do it, not to think about it. This is why I'm so passionate about creative habits, about creative action. You know, after I did the picture book earlier this year, I opened up some creative direction coaching calls that hadn't done in over a year, maybe a year and a half, something like that. We. I opened them up really sporadically and had a flood of calls. And it was great because I felt like I'd forgotten how to talk, sitting in my studio doing all these paintings. So it was really great. And I love talking to people that listen to the show, and I love strategizing for creative careers and creative practice. Just something that I am deeply passionate about and love to do. But as I have gone to do it, I realized that I'm going to come up with a new rule, which is, you know, I open these up from time to time. Often after I do a call with somebody. There's more questions later on in the process. And so I thought, okay, well, if I've done a call with you, even if I don't have calls open, I will do another call. You can schedule and book another call, but with a new added disclaimer, which is the only way you can book another call is if you don't have questions because you've thought through what we talked about and you've got complaints or concerns and resistance, but that you've taken the call and you went and made some stuff. I don't care if it's stuff that you've made exactly like what we talked about on the call, or if it's stuff, an exact opposition. It could be the right way or the wrong way or the up way or the down way. It doesn't matter. But I've decided it has to be like, at least I'm leaning towards four to six pieces that you have created and put out into the world on in some fashion that could be on Instagram. That could be on Spotify or it could just be on your blog. You know, you could just launch some demos or just some short stories or some comics or some articles or whatever it is. But you have to have made and published to some degree, four to six pieces inspired by our talk or reacting against our chat before I will do a follow up call. Because the only way to do creative work is to do it, not to think about it. The only way to know if you're going the right way is to go the wrong way. And I really, really believe this. You hear this with stand up comedians all the time there. I've heard this story. You know, I listen to a lot of stand up comedy podcasts and I'm just a big fan of the craft. And one thing that you hear a lot from people that have done it for a long time and really found their groove is that often when they start, that's the material and the approach that they show up with at the beginning deeply resembles or has some of the essence of what ends up being their groove. But sandwiched in between those things is a long period of time of trying to be other people, trying different things, exploring different ways of approaching it. And it sounds like the obvious conclusion to that would be like, you should have just stuck with what was you from the beginning, man. But again, that would be wrong that it is part of the process to leave home. This is one of the reasons why I'm so obsessed with the hero's journey is it's because it's the idea that the hero's journey starts at home and it ends at home. But in between that sandwiched in between is going out of your comfort zone, going out of ordinary into the extraordinary world, leaving who you think you are into a place where you don't. You don't know who you are anymore. You don't know what's going on. You're uncomfortable, you're pushed, you're challenged. And then making the return that it is a requirement to leave your comfort zone and leave your essence and forget who you think you are and test it and be open and try things and do stuff in order to really solidify what it is you have. It reminds me of the wizard of Oz. You know, Brian McDonald. I feel like I've heard this in a couple books, actually. It might be Christopher Vogler's Writer's Journey. That book, as well as Brian McDonald's Invisible Inc. There's a couple places where I've heard some breakdowns of the story of wizard of Oz, the movie of wizard of oz. And Brian McDonald says that the idea here is that you have every. You already have everything you need. You know, Dorothy already has the ruby red slippers that'll take her home. The scarecrow already has a brain, so on and so forth. But I actually, I think that's true, but I take it a little bit differently because it's not that you get to the end and you're like, oh, man, I didn't even need to do this journey. I already had everything I need. But in fact, that the journey was required to figure out what it is you had that you needed. That the journey is the way that leaving home, going out and trying on a different pair of shoes, a different way of being is the only way that you figure out what it is that you have. And so if you're feeling resistance, quite possibly the only way you're going to know it's the wrong way is by doing the wrong way and the right way by doing the work, not just thinking about the work, not knowing that you're doing it right before you're doing it. And I'm going to do an episode in the near future about how, yes, I'm a big believer in plotting and strategic creative work where you show up and you have a goal in mind and you do the work towards that goal. And that's really essential. But I also want to explore what it looks like to do exploratory creative work stuff that's a risk, stuff that you don't know what's going to happen until you're doing it. And it's essential to not know is this the right way or the wrong way? Before you start out, let's talk about how to get started and put this idea into practice. The missing child is Lucia Blix, 9 years old. Please let her come back home safely. Thursdays. The kidnappers plumbed it meticulously.
- [29:25]
Unknown Host
If money is what it takes to.
- [29:27]
Unknown Creative Speaker
Get her back, we're gonna pay it. The secrets they hide. You can't talk about this. You can't write about it. Are the clues. The mother's hiding something. I know it. To find her, tell me where she is. The stolen girl. New episodes Thursdays stream on Hulu. McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice of a Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets with spicy nether Flame sauce. Now available with a Minecraft movie meal. I participate in McDonald's for a limited time, a Minecraft movie only in theaters. All right. It's Time for the creative call to adventure. You know, on this show, we don't like to just get you pepped and send you on your way and be like, have fun, feeling inspired and do nothing. No, we want to do something with these ideas and put them to action. So this is our creative call to adventure. It's called USB Yourself. Just USB yourself. Okay? You get it. You've heard all the ideas. That's it. Have fun. Get. I'm just kidding. I'm gonna explain what USB Yourself means. It means usb. We're gonna break it down into three parts. The next piece that you do, whether it's for a client, whether it's for yourself, you know, something in the middle. I don't know what that looks like, but usb. U is for usual, S is for switch, and B is for B. Like, be yourself, okay? Just be it. You know, being what comes natural, who you are. And the only way you're going to find that B is if you go U S first. If you do the right way, the wrong way, then the right way. Okay, we just don't know which is if the right way comes first, the wrong way comes first. But we know we're gonna have to try both of them. So here's what I want you to do. If you're a visual artist, you can think about it like sketches. If you're a musician, it might be like demos, but let's say for the first try, do the. You do the usual way. Do the way that you're already working right now, the same way that you have been approaching sketches. Do that version of the idea. Then do a George Costanza. You ever seen that episode of Seinfeld where George is like, I'm just going to do the opposite of what comes natural. I'm going to do whatever I think I should do, I'm going to do the opposite. And then everything starts going his way. And so instead of doing the usual, S is the sketch where you're going to switch it up, do the opposite. If you're a musician, you're doing demos, maybe you have been making these slow, ballady things. And then for the next demo, you're going to speed up the tempo, crank up that bpm and make it chaotic and make it electronic, whatever it is. How can you just do the opposite? How can you flip that USB around and try it the totally different way? And then after you've tried both ends of the spectrum, then you can just be the one that feels right, that feels like the right level of resistance. That's Just a little bit of a push to slot in and get into that flow. And once you've done both ends of the spectrum, you should have a sense of which one had the right kind of the friction, which one had the wrong kind of a friction. And for me, when I go to plan a talk, often I just want to pick something and I want to roll right. But when I allow myself to not just think about the options and pick one, but to do the option, just spend the time, it's actually so much more efficient because often, you know, when I want to avoid the different options, I will go all in on one and I'll put so much time and energy on finishing that demo to almost time to release it and then realize it's the wrong way and then have to start all over again. And so instead, if you will just do like, what's the rough version of one? What's the rough version of the switch? The opposite way, then you will have a feeling of which is friction in the bad way, which is friction in the good way. So that's the USB yourself. Creative call to adventure. Hope it helps. Next time you make something, try it out. Let me know what you think. Wherever you, you know, comment on, substack, Instagram, what have you. I'm curious to hear how it helps. It's helped me a ton and I. I hope it helps you to acknowledge which are the kinds of unpleasant feelings that are actually telling you you're going the right way and which are the unpleasant feelings that are the wrong kind that are. That just is you going against your own grain, man. Massive thanks to Sophie Miller for being a producer and editor on the show. Thanks to Connor Jones for audio and video Edits. We're on YouTube if you like to watch the background as well as listen. Or maybe you just want to sit there and just, you know, raw dog, they. They call it, you know, this idea of someone going on a plane and again, like Seinfeld Putty, just sitting there doing nothing, looking at the back of the seat. There's people that are like flying to Japan, doing no music, no videos, nothing, and just raw dogging the flights. That's what. That's what they call. Maybe that's what you want to do. Just want to watch it on YouTube and just pay attention fully the whole time. I hope you don't. That sounds like torture to me. But we're doing video, so. Thanks, Connor, for the audio, video edits and sound and video design animations. Thanks to Yoni Wolf and the band. Why? For our theme music and our soundtracks. And thank you all for listening. I hope that it has helped helped you have some creative juice to continue creating. Continue in your creative practice with more pep and excitement. And until we speak again, stay pepped up.
- [35:43]
Emma Varvalukas
If you're feeling overwhelmed by the news cycle, you are not alone. I'm Emma Varvalukas and along with Progress Network founder Zachary Carabell, I host what Could Go Right, a podcast that looks beyond the headlines to uncover progress happening in the world, even in difficult times. Each week we sit down with experts to discuss today's biggest challenges without ignoring the hard stuff. We bring nuance, insight and a forward looking perspective to help make sense of the current moment. Fight the urge to do your scroll, tune in to walk, or go right instead. Wherever you get your podcasts hey everyone.
- [36:16]
Danielle
It'S Danielle from National Park After Dark, the chart topping podcast that's received over 42 million downloads. If you love the great outdoors or are just morbidly curious about what can go wrong out there, this is the show for you. Each week on National Park After Dark, my co host and I dive into the darker side of nature. Epic survival stories, tragic history, animal encounters, and yes, even some paranormal encounters. But it's not all chills and thrills. We also share inspiring tales and our passion for protecting the wild places we all love. So lace up your hiking boots and take a walk on the dark side of the wilderness with us on National Park After Dark.