Jonathan Goldstein (4:07)

And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old.

Andy J. Pizza (4:12)

And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power.

Jonathan Goldstein (4:22)

Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism.

Andy J. Pizza (4:28)

We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time, being more able to look people in the eye, not always hide behind a microphone.

Jonathan Goldstein (4:36)

Listen to Heavyweight wherever you get your podcast.

Andy J. Pizza (4:49)

If you're not careful making art, a creative practice can easily devolve into a desperate attempt to get fans or followers, a depraved pursuit of fame even. It can turn into that. And, and we've been doing this few episodes in this theme of shifting away from a negative self psychology to a positive self psychology. So shifting away from seeing yourself as something to overcome to seeing yourself as something to cultivate. And that's really essential if you want to be someone who regularly expresses themselves. Because if you think everything is in there is not so great, why would you make the effort to get it out of yourself and into the world? For me, there has been an incredible amount of energy in shifting to assuming that my base impulses, even if they're misdirected, even if they have caused more trouble than good sometimes that I have a more productive outcome if I can start with assuming that it's coming from something good, that it's some part of me that's trying to survive or adapt or even thrive and maybe just not always getting it right. So if we look at that de evolution of creativity, that can happen when you start making stuff and putting it out in the world and it can turn into, into this desperate attempt for connection or even fame if we look at that, and instead of just assuming that's wrong, squash that. That's the problem. Just make for yourself instead of jumping to the conclusion that this is something bad, this impulse is kind of in your way. What if we started with, well, okay, maybe this. Maybe attempting fame is getting in the way, or just working to get followers or likes is a distraction. But what is that base impulse if we were assuming that it's trying to do something good? And when I pull back the curtain on that, to me it looks like it's an attempt for connection and an attempt for wholeness. And that desire doesn't seem to be rooted in anything negative. In fact, it seems like a very base human need. And if you lack connection, part of that artistic impulse might be a attempt for human connection. And so if we look at it through that lens, maybe we can see that art actually can help you make that kind of connection that you're after. If you go about it in a way where you're trying to connect, you're not trying to get praise and worship. So there's a trope in artist circles, stand up comic circles. You hear this a lot. This idea that this impulse to connect through creativity is. Is a sign of your brokenness. Like, what was wrong with you? What was wrong with your home? That meant that you needed extra attention from people in order to feel okay. And I think, you know, it makes sense. But a more positive spin on that, a more positive psychology lens would be maybe art for you is like a supplement. Like your internal or interior self needed a little bit more attention or needed a little bit more affection or connection than average because your inside self doesn't produce enough of that. Or maybe you did grow up in an environment where there was a lack or a deficiency in the connection that you needed. And art has become a supplement for you, a way to get that nutrition that you need, that you lack. And longtime listeners of this show know that I fall into that camp. And probably some degree of that comes from the fact that I grew up without my mom around most of the time. Now, longtime listeners know this because I have spoke and wrote and podcasted and whined all over the freaking Internet about it for years. But the main reason I have done so is because it's so central to my creative journey. This is the quick nutshell version of my story and how my creativity connects to my relationship with my mother. And if you are a longtime listener and you've heard this couple different ways, just bear with me for just a couple minutes. But because I think this story holds one of the most important keys to learning how to make the kind of connections that you're looking for through your art. And this is a true story, but I think it's important to note that it's also one that I've worked for years to learn how to tell in such a way where it captured the essence of what I think it's all about. So here is that basic version. Growing up, I felt like a super creative weirdo, a Nick Nickelodeon kid in a sea of Disney kids. And I really loved being creatively weird. And I was told all the time that I got this creative weirdness from my mom. My aunts and uncles would constantly tell me that I was just like her, and I really liked that. But as I got older, moving out of elementary school, I felt more and more conflicted about this weirdness because I although being creative really helps you in, like, kindergarten and that kind of thing as you get to middle school and high school, none of the ways that you draw or the faces you make really make much of a difference in terms of grades or making friends. And so I started to feel more complicated about this. My I also noticed that those same people that said that I was just like her didn't have the highest opinion of her. So they would complain about her being late, not showing up, not being able to commit to things. And I started to feel a little bit weird about being just like her. And then when I was like something like 17, my mom went into the hospital and I found out that she had a brain tumor and was struggling with a bad addiction and had a really bad boyfriend. And all of this just was devastating to hear. But on top of just hearing that my mom, this person I loved, was in such a bad place was this weight of feeling like I was just like her. And so that went from feeling like a blessing to feeling like a curse. And at that moment, I started to try to be the opposite of her. I wanted to become everything she wasn't. And I was determined to overcome this weirdness that she had given me. And at the same time, I was becoming an adult, going to school for illustration and design, and I was trying to get my illustration career off the ground and find myself creatively. And I wasn't really having any luck. So I kind of just adopted the trendy styles from the time. And for a minute, those things really worked. It got me some jobs early on, even to the point where I got an email from someone who worked on a show on Nickelodeon, and they asked me to make some illustrations to be animated on one of their shows. I tried my best, gave it my all, sent over these final illustrations, and their reply was, rough drafts look okay. Looking forward to seeing how they Shape up. In the finals, I was devastated. I didn't know how to make them any better. That did not go how I planned. And all of those trends kind of passed. And the economy was weird, and I really hit a massive wall in my creative journey. And I decided, like, I need to do some soul searching. I need to go deeper. I need to figure out how do I make work that is really, really me, that could be a little bit more timeless than the current trends that are influencing what I'm doing. And so what I did was I just kind of. There wasn't podcasts like this one, so I was just obsessively learning about the journeys of my creative heroes. So I watched tons of creative mornings talks, like artist talks and TED talks and stuff like that. I read a bunch of interviews through things like the Great Discontent, which at the time was just this series of online interviews with artists, a lot of whom I was a huge fan of. And I was just kind of obsessively consuming that stuff, looking for patterns and trying to figure out how do you connect with yourself on a deep enough level to put it on the page? And a lot of these things had a big impact on me, but one had a bigger impact than all the others. The talk was from this origami artist named Joseph Wu, and it was all about how he had just recently become diagnosed with adhd. And he's telling the story of it being, like, just feeling like, a bit of a mess, you know, being late to things, not being able to stick to things, that. That sort of thing. And it just hit me like a ton of bricks, especially because he said that the reason he figured out that he was ADHD at this point in his adult life was because he had a son that they had just got diagnosed and found out that it often runs in the family. And so, yeah, I was pretty sure that I didn't get my ADHD from my corporate accountant father. And so I just went on this deep dive. And at first, it just devastated me because I felt like this thing, this weirdness that I had been running from my entire adult life was not something that I could escape because it was a diagnosable fact. And so that was a lot to handle. But the more that I read and the more that I found out about all of this, the more I heard this other side of the story, which was this neurodivergent lens that said this, yes, this. In the world that we live in, being this way does come with a ton of challenges, and some of which are going to be challenges, no matter what world you find yourself in. But you can also think of this as just a different type of brain. And these things that we say are part of a disorder. Being late, not being able to stick to things, There are other ways to channel them. They can be time optimization. They can be. That's what I call it when I'm late for my doctor's appointment. I'm just optimizing time. But that not being able to stick to anything can mean you're always up for something new. It can mean, yeah, traditional work can be a real challenge for you, but also it might be useful for being an entrepreneur. And so as I read with this different lens, I started to wonder if my mom's problems weren't so much who she was, but that she was trying to be something she wasn't. She was constantly trying to overcome herself and be normal and not embrace this weirdness. And I started to get really curious about what would happen if I quit trying to be the opposite of my mom. And I started to try to be more like her than she ever let herself be. So this was the birth of my shift from a negative self psychology, thinking of myself as a bad thing to overcome, into a more positive self psychology, seeing myself as something to cultivate. And I've been talking about this for a couple episodes because it was so foundational to probably my biggest creative breakthrough, which is this idea that art is self expression. If you want to make art that you love, you've got to learn to love yourself, because you're never going to love that expression if you hate the thing that it's an expression of, which is you. And that maybe sounds like an Instagram quote or something, but it has really powerful implications because once I started to think of myself more as a good thing, it gave me the courage to excavate myself. It gave me the ability to not be afraid of who I was, but to be interested in it and to look inside and ask those questions and look at the parts that I was running from, which I think is just the essential groundwork of putting yourself onto the page. And I have spent the past few years working on this story, figuring out how to tell it, sharing it in a bunch of different mediums and ways, because it was such a profound shift for me. And the reason I wanted to share it was because I have had so many encounters with people that are struggling with the same things. I have had friends that I lost to drug addiction that were probably neurodivergent. I have friends that are still struggling with those things. I know so many brilliant creative people that are just riddled with struggles by being different and it's not going to solve all their problems to embrace who they are. But I do think it really does help. And there would be people just in my everyday life, we had someone come out and work on our AC and he, we just kind of talked a little bit and I realized like, this guy was a veteran who really struggled in the military. And eventually he talks about the fact that he's adhd and you can just sense in him the self loathing and the weight of the embarrassment of the missed opportunities and appointments and just being treated like an idiot. You could just, it was just palpable in everything that he said and I just so deeply relate to that and it just breaks my heart. So there's so many, there's so many personal experiences that have caused me to want to share this story wherever anyone would listen. So that's where the motivation came from. The motivation to learn how to tell this story in a way that it worked came from really wanting to connect to those people and share this shift that had had such an impact on my life. Oh, and by the way, I should mention that that same soul searching led to a bunch of creative work that broke open my creative sensibility, some of which were the characters that ended up being tattooed on some people's bodies and made into this book, Invisible Things, and put me in a place where a couple years later, when someone from a company called Nickelodeon reached back out to make some new animations, this time around, they were so pumped about the results that we ended up working together something like 14 different times. And the client that nearly broke me ended up making my freelance illustration career possible. But the reason that I bring it up in this episode is to explore something that I've never really spoke about on the podcast. And it's the unintended consequence of learning to tell my story. See, when I started to try to learn the craft of storytelling, I was doing it because I wanted to connect with other people. But what I didn't realize was that it would super help me connect with myself and do so in a way that was really truly healing for me. Last year, we told this story through a six part narrative nonfiction podcast series on this podcast, starting with episode 449. And if you're watching this on YouTube, this was before we were doing YouTube, so you can only listen to it if you go to creativepeptalk.com 44 9, you can check it out and Listen through. It's kind of this American lifestyle podcasting. And we tell the story through me, talking about it, sharing a lot of other details and anecdotes, doing some interviews with my wife, Sophie, and my brother Josh. And we talked to a therapist, and Angus Fletcher is also part of that, who was a recent guest on the show. And it ends the last episode, or the second to last episode is a chat that I recorded with my mom.

Podcast Advertiser / Voice Actor (24:46)

Why did you have such a hard time.

Andy J. Pizza (24:50)

Growing up? Yes. I don't know. It was all a lot of things. And it was right after I had shared this story, this way of thinking about this story with her, and it's me chatting with her about how she felt about it. And it was really special because I hadn't seen her in a few years up until this point, and I had never really been able to explain my experience to her until I learned how to tell the story. And after all this was said and done, like, it was a great experience in so many ways. And I got so many messages from neurodivergent people and creative people and people that had had these complicated relationships with being like their parents and, you know, dealing with all of the stuff that gets passed down through your DNA. And we won two signal awards, podcasting awards. This thing right here, this guy. And it was just really, really special. But after it was all said and done, I was left with this other feeling, which was this feeling of healing. And I really don't want to oversell this because, you know, let's fast forward 5, 10 years, and who knows how I will feel then or what it'll be like? But I can tell you that learning to tell my story, not even to my mom, not to all of you, but just learning to see the meaning in it, see the arc, it had a profound impact on me. And it really softened enlightened this burden that I have carried. My entire life. My entire life, I have felt this way weight of my mom being missing and the impact that it had on me as a kid, and then what it meant for me in terms of the person that I had become as an adult. And anytime that notion would pop up, you know, Mother's Day or just reminders from a movie or hearing someone talk about how, oh, you know, thanking their mom for always being there and being their biggest fan and all that, anytime it would pop up, I. It was this weight that I was just so familiar with. And as I learned to tell the story and to see the story in it, that weight has, at the very least, really, really changed. And I am tempted to say that it's mostly gone, that whatever that weight was became the raw material of this storytelling and I did something with it instead of just letting it sit on me. And I feel like that process changed me and definitely changed how I carry it. And so after all of putting this series out had kind of passed and we had a little time, I got thinking about how I wanted to share what I had learned about storytelling that had helped me make some sense of this because of the impact that it had on me.

Home Depot Advertiser (28:53)

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Podcast Advertiser / Voice Actor (29:27)

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Andy J. Pizza (29:54)

So this was such a real experience for me that I got really curious about it. I've kind of been digging into this. One thing that I came across that was really powerful was this study. It's called Senior Life Story as a Hero's Journey Increases Meaning in Life. And it's actually a collection of, I think eight different studies all on this topic of learning to see your life through the lens of story. And they talk about how developing this restorying intervention leads people to see the events of their life as a hero's journey. And and that this intervention causally increases meaning in life meaning. It's not just correlated, it actually has been found to cause an increase in meaning and by prompting people to reflect on important elements of their lives and connecting them into a coherent and compelling narrative, this hero's Journey restorying intervention also increases the extent to which people perceive meaning and an ambiguous grammar task and increases the resilience to life's challenges. Now, I don't understand all of that, but what I do here is that learning to see through the lens of story has a profound impact on the meaning of your life and your connection to it. And I truly believe that if you're going to have a deep connection with anyone else through your work, it's going to start with having a deep connection to the meaning within your own life. And I think that the key to doing that is learning to tell stories, is to learn to see your life through the lens of story. Now, this has limitations, and I think there are ways in which we have to break free from the stories that we tell ourselves. And that's why I think they call it restorying even. But here's the fricking kicker, and if you don't get anything else from this episode, I hope you just listen to this for a second. If meaning in your life is tied to your ability to see the narrative, to spot the story, to craft the meaning within it through this lens, that is going to require you to know how to tell a story. And what if the reason why we are lacking that meaning and lacking that connection to self is because we have lost our ability to tell stories? And so, after all of this experience, the thing that I wanted to do was to share what I'd learned about telling stories, because it had helped me so much in this very particular way. I don't really feel like a podcast is the right format to share everything that I've learned about storytelling in the 10 years of making the show and making a handful of picture books and reading a bunch of books on storytelling. But you know that we want to give you something you can do, not just pep you up in every episode. And so every episode, we end with a cta, a call to creative adventure. Here's this week's cta. It's called Yellow Door Questing. And this is about how to find the seeds of stories in your life so you can write from life experience, even if you don't want to tell them in a narrative nonfiction podcast series and you want to translate them into fiction. Whether you're doing nonfiction or fiction doesn't really matter. You want to write from your own experience. You want to write what you know, what you've lived. And the way to recognize those things, I think, starts with having an idea of what a story is. And so over the years, I've kind of cobbled together and collaged my own definition of story that has helped me recognize the stories that I've lived. And so my favorite definition is my favorite definition of a story is a series of events that ends in a surprise. And the surprise is really about this shift in the hero, the main character's perspective, and it's this surprising but inevitable because it's something that you already knew was true, but you didn't see it coming because it's a surprising idea. Okay, so a surprise. That's the thing you're looking for. When in your life have you been surprised by life? Now, yellow door Questing, where this comes from is a book called the Awakened Brain by Lisa Miller. Dr. Lisa Miller, which I've spoke about a couple times on this show. And she has this exercise where you close your eyes and you think about this thing that you desperately wanted but you didn't get. And so she calls that thing you desperately wanted a red door. And so think about that red door. And was there ever a red door, a thing that you really wanted, that you worked for, that you did everything right for, that you didn't get to walk into, and that it slammed in your face. But then life surprised you with what Dr. Lisa Miller calls a yellow door, a door that you hadn't planned for, an opportunity that you didn't see coming that ended up being better than what you thought that you wanted. This exercise can help you connect to some of the stories that you've lived because they connect you to the ways that life has surprised you. For me, in my story, the thing that was surprising was realizing I didn't have to be the opposite of my mom, but I had to be more like her than she was. That was a surprise that I didn't see coming. That hit me in my mid-20s when I started this journey to get diagnosed with ADHD. And so do this exercise. Write down a handful of times where life surprised you in a positive way. And one of the reasons why I love this exercise is, yes, it can help you find some seeds to stories, but the other reason comes up in a book that we've talked about a lot recently called Primal Intelligence. We had the author, Angus Fletcher, on the show a few weeks ago, and in that book, he talks about how one of he works with special operatives in the military in a bunch of capacities. And one of the things that he shares is that they've learned that one of the only things that can help heal people that have been to war that have PTSD is more or less this exercise. He doesn't name it exactly, but he talks about getting them to not diminish the atrocities that they've experienced and the trauma that they felt. They. That that's very real, but to also look for the ways that life has surprised them in positive ways. And I did this while reading the book. I just wrote down a handful of times where something happened in my path that was not part of the plan, that was not part of the strategy, and how much it impacted my life. Whether it was meeting Sophie the last year of college, right before I was planning to move from England, that was not part of the plan to meet her, fall in love, get married, have a kid, live there for a while, have this international relationship for the rest of my life. Not part of the plan, but it was a pretty good surprise. The ADHD one was another one. But I challenge you to do this yellow door questing exercise and start to see these surprises and start to see your life as a kind of journey. The questing portion comes from the Awakened Brain. It's a term that Dr. Lisa Miller uses to talk about this lens that we talked about from that study. This lens of seeing your life as a journey, seeing it as a quest. She calls it questing. And it's the ability to make a connection between your interior experience and what you're facing on the outside. That that is the key to seeing your life through the story lens is that there is some kind of connection, there is some kind of oneness in between you and this universe that you find yourself in, and that this lens can make a really, really big difference. So I hope the ideas of this episode help you connect on a deeper level with yourself and connect deeper with others through your creative work and through the stories that you tell through them. We just launched this storytelling workshop to go through some of the other story stuff that really helped me learn to grapple with my own stories and translate them into creative work. Now, by the time you hear this, I think that first workshop is going to be full. However, if you want to be alerted to when we open up the next one, or if we turn it into a video course or something like that, to be the first person to hear about it next time so that you don't lose your spot, go to anniejpizza.substack.com and sign up to the newsletter. Those are the people. The first people that hear about it are substack supporters and patrons backers. Second people to hear about it will be the people on that email list. And so if you want to be notified of when we go deeper on storytelling stuff, storytelling basics that are also what I think are really, truly magic about storytelling, both crafting the main idea of your story and then turning that into like a storyline that you can work into. Whatever different creative stuff that you make, whether it's a presentation you're going to do or a podcast or picture book or whatever you can. This is a an accessible entryway into Story now. I'm sorry, I'm like selling it kind of hard when it's already it's already full, but I think we're going to do another one. We're definitely going to turn it into something. So if you want to be notified, make sure you get get on the Newsletter Massive thanks to Sophie Miller for being an editor and producer on this show. Huge thanks to Connor Jones of Pending Beautiful for the audio edits, the video edits, the animation, the sound design. Thanks to Yoni Wolf of the band Y for theme music and soundtrack. And thanks to all of you for listening until we speak again next week. Stay Pep Top.

Narrator for The Void Podcast (42:11)

The town of Milton may seem normal at first glance, but the shadows are cursed and the expansive woods surrounding town are forbidden. They call it the Void and nobody comes back alive.

Andy J. Pizza (42:20)

You're headed straight for the void.

Narrator for The Void Podcast (42:22)

Milton lives suspended in time, trapped by a darkness that seems to be creeping closer and closer.

Andy J. Pizza (42:27)

It's safe. The void is kept at bay. Is it though?

Narrator for The Void Podcast (42:30)

Join three friends as they embark on an epic journey into the heart of darkness. The Void Wherever you get your podcasts.

Andy J. Pizza (42:38)

This is just the beginning. Okay, the podcast is over, so I don't know why you're still listening, but I am glad that you enjoyed it enough to stick to the end. I have one more thing for you. If you're in a place where you're feeling a lack of clarity and you want to figure out your industry market and niche and find the perfect strategic side project to do next, go sign up to our newsletter@andyjpizza.substack.com and you will get a confirmation email that will give you the download of our Creative Career Path Handbooklet. And the whole process is in there. And you might also get a few bonuses in there depending on when you sign up. But again, thanks for listening. Glad you enjoyed the episode and stay pepped up, y'. All.