Creative Pep Talk Episode 536

Rest and Retreat as a Neurodivergent Creative with Katherine May
Released: December 24, 2025
Guest Host: Katherine May (author of “Wintering”), Guest: Andy J. Pizza

Episode Overview

In this special holiday episode, Andy J. Pizza appears as a guest on Katherine May’s podcast series “The Clearing.” The conversation delves into what retreat and rest mean for neurodivergent creatives, especially those with ADHD, how rest looks different from typical expectations, and how fantasy, environment, novelty, and personal mythologies play a role in creative rejuvenation. Together, they imagine a "dream retreat"—part real, part fantastical—while unpacking what it means to rest as an energetic, neurodivergent person.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge of Rest for Neurodivergent Creatives

• Difficulty in resting:

  • Andy discusses how traditional rest is hard due to ADHD:

    “Rest is very difficult where so much of the brain, chemical stuff that I need requires chasing, requires stimulation. I need a lot of stuff going on.” (05:16, Andy)

  • “Severe boredom feels like I’m in pain. …the research confirm[s] that the pain centers actually do fire when ADHD people are bored.” (08:23, Andy)

• Rest in motion:

  • Katherine reflects that many neurodivergent people rest best while immersed in their passions:

    “If we’re resting, it’s about going deep into our passions rather than sitting on the proverbial sun lounger with an airport novel.” (06:03, Katherine)

• Monetizing passions:

  • Andy acknowledges the tension of rest activities feeding back into work, due to their overlap with passions.

2. The Role of Novelty and Environment

• Novelty as essential to rest:

  • Andy shares that novelty, variety, and stimulation are core to feeling rested—traditional “relaxation” often turns to agitation after a few days:

    “I can do the low stimulation things like for a little bit… but then after that I’m like, okay, I’m gonna have to take some accommodations. I need to do a lot of different kinds of things to feel okay.” (07:20, Andy)

• Travel stress vs. excitement:

  • The discomfort comes from “getting there”—the stultifying boredom of airports—for Andy, contrasted with the “feeding off” of new environments once in them.

3. Fantastical Retreats & Imaginative World-Building

• Dream retreat location: Andy chooses the moving castle from Howl’s Moving Castle (Miyazaki) as his ideal rest spot.

  • “Those movies have a flavor of paradise and heaven to me. I can hardly describe that.” (11:14, Andy)
  • The castle appeals because it’s “resting in motion,” literally moving through a landscape.

• Importance of detail and world-building:

  • Both hosts bond over their love of Miyazaki, Tove Jansson, Jim Henson, and the sense of aliveness, detail, and world interconnectedness in their creations.
    • “[Their worlds] feel more like home than reality… I don’t know if it’s a neurodivergent thing of just feeling like nothing’s designed for me. Nothing feels right.” (15:10, Andy)

• Neurodivergent longing for “home”:

  • Katherine: “I think that’s a very neurodivergent thing.” (15:47, Katherine)

4. Joyful Tangent: Fraggle Rock Across Cultures

• Andy and Katherine discuss the lasting creative influence and underappreciated brilliance of Fraggle Rock and Henson’s work.

• A lively, amusing comparison of how different countries localized Fraggle Rock with different human characters/settings:

  “Ours were a lighthouse with a lighthouse keeper… Fraggle Rock was set in Scotland on an actual rock in the sea.” (21:35, Katherine)

• The “web” of interconnectedness:

  • Andy highlights how Fraggle Rock models interconnectedness—everything impacting everything else—a deep creative theme.

5. The Multiverse Retreat: Howl’s Moving Castle & The Four-Turn Dial

Andy’s fantasy retreat includes a magical door (from Howl’s Moving Castle) that leads to four wildly different locations, each serving a different creative need:

First Dial: LA, California

• For the comforting climate, energy, and creative vibe:

  “There’s something about this, the temperature being like exactly where you would set it. …It feels deeply calming.” (33:59, Andy)

Second Dial: Stockholm, Sweden

• For aesthetic minimalism, quiet, and design inspiration (especially in winter):

  “Everyone …was wearing black and no one in the streets… It felt like an alien planet to me, honestly, coming from America in the best kind of way.” (37:21, Andy)

Third Dial: The Mystery Location

• Andy delights in randomness—could be Egypt, Tokyo, or Germany. The lack of control and total novelty function as a “randomizer” and a crucial creative jolt:

  “If it was just a turn of the dial and it was randomly selected, I could definitely show up in Egypt.” (42:23, Andy) “When I think about retreat… I’m rarely thinking about relaxing. I’m thinking about filling up my cup inspirationally and feeling, again, that zest.” (42:49, Andy)

Fourth Dial: Yorkshire, UK

• Nostalgic ties—a hike in the hills, a quiet evening in a small local pub without distractions:

  “No music, no TV’s, lovely. Just with some friends. Yorkshire pubs are little heavens.” (51:23, Andy)

6. Creative Practice & Respite Tools

• The Little Prince as comfort object—Andy’s “reset” book:

  “It was one of the first books that I read that had that… You have those books where you’re like, the world looks different in a dramatic way.” (56:24, Andy)

  • Discussion of the symbolic, mythic, and “childlike” creative state—how hard it is to access as an adult, especially amid the pressure to be constantly strategic.
  • Andy:

    “So much of creativity for me is understanding how to work with your brain. It’s so fickle. …Creativity is like falling asleep: it’s not something you can force to happen. You can create circumstances where it’s more likely to show up.” (69:13, Andy)

• Dream journals/sketchbooks:

  • Katherine and Andy swap stories on dream journaling; Andy wants more time to draw his dreams as a way to access the “other side of the brain.”
  • “Dreams… are an escape from ego and control.” (60:24, Andy)
  • “I love that it’s full of little nuggets… don’t be so quick to identify with the point of view, with the ego you’re moving through.” (65:07, Andy; referencing Jungian thought)

7. Final Thoughts on Retreat, Return, and Integration

• Phases of retreat:
  • Andy identifies three stages: resistance, immersion (“never want to go back!”), and finally knowing it’s time to return—often spurred by creative excitement.
• The longing to bring magic home:
  • Andy dreams of bringing back a creature from the Miyazaki universe, a symbol of the invisible, magical worlds that feed his creativity:

    “We are surrounded by like 95% of the universe is invisible to us… I would love to bring back one of those creatures just to be like a little reminder.” (73:39, Andy)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the pain of boredom (ADHD):

  “Rest is very difficult… severe boredom feels like I’m in pain… the research confirm[s] that the pain centers actually do fire when ADHD people are bored.” (08:23, Andy)

• On finding rest in motion:

  “Howl’s Moving Castle… is moving. There’s action… I most rest when like, if I’m on a swing even. I really like that feeling. I like being in the ocean… getting smashed with waves. I can like finally chill out. I need that.” (13:30, Andy)

• On imagination as home:

  “All of my heroes… create worlds that feel more like home than reality, which is sad to me. … And I don’t know if it’s a neurodivergent thing of just feeling like nothing’s designed for me.” (15:10, Andy)

• On randomness as renewal:

  “I need something that’s a randomizer in my life because…when I’m in control, I make everything the same all the time… those kind of randomizers are so valuable.” (43:13, Katherine)

• On creative cycles and the need for curiosity:

  “As I’ve gotten older, fun is harder… for neurodivergent person[s], staying engaged in life, making sure you have those threads that you’re pulling and staying curious, all of that… it can…get to be dangerous…if I don’t have those little things.” (27:06, Andy)

• On the return from retreat:

  “With a retreat, there’s three phases: There is the resistance phase… The next section is, I don’t ever want to go back… And then you know you’re done when you’re like, okay, I need to go back. I wish we could…end this a day earlier, I need to go get on this creative thing.” (71:00, Andy)

Key Timestamps

• 05:16 – Andy on rest and ADHD
• 08:23 – The pain of boredom for neurodivergent brains
• 11:10–16:13 – The imaginative world of Howl’s Moving Castle as a retreat
• 17:20–22:50 – Fraggle Rock, world-building, and creative childhood influences
• 33:59 – First dial: LA as a restorative place for Andy
• 37:21 – Second dial: Stockholm’s wintry inspiration
• 42:23 – The mystery (random) location and the value of unfamiliarity
• 51:23 – Fourth dial: Yorkshire and nostalgic comfort
• 56:24 – The Little Prince as a creative “reset” button
• 60:24–66:05 – Dream journaling, Jung, and escaping ego
• 69:13–72:30 – Three phases of retreat and the urge to return
• 73:39–74:42 – The longing to bring home a magical creature as a reminder of invisible wonder

Summary Takeaways

• Rest for neurodivergent creatives often means pursuing intense novelty, not slowing down.
• Fantasy, art, and myth-rich environments can provide a deep sense of “home” otherwise lacking in daily life.
• Creative restoration is less about “relaxation” and more about inspiration, curiosity, and immersion in otherness.
• Integrating lessons or symbols from retreat—whether a book, dream, or imagined creature—can help preserve the sense of wonder in daily creative life.

This episode offers both practical and philosophical insights for any creative, neurodivergent or not, looking to redefine what rest, retreat, and creative renewal can look like.