Creative Pep Talk: Episode 540
Why the Creative Path Has to Be Twisty and Turny with Nishant Jain
Release Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Andy J. Pizza | Guest: Nishant Jain (Author of Make Sneaky Art)
Overview
This episode dives into the unpredictable, spiraling journey of creativity, featuring a lively and reflective conversation between host Andy J. Pizza and Nishant Jain, author of Make Sneaky Art. Together, they explore how embracing curiosity, chaos, and imperfection leads to more authentic, joyful, and sustainable creative practices. Through stories, practical exercises, and philosophical insights, Nishant and Andy hash out why the “creative path” is rarely linear—and how that’s actually a gift.
Key Discussion Points
1. Rekindling Your Creative Relationship (00:00–05:10)
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The Creative Disconnect:
Andy opens by sharing how adults often lose touch with their creative selves amidst adult life, capitalism, and external pressures."If you don't stay in relationship to [your creative self], you don't have a prayer at having a practice, or a profession around your creativity, or even just a consistent creative habit." (00:14)
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Introducing Nishant Jain:
Nishant's book, Make Sneaky Art, is introduced as a guide to reconnecting with curiosity through playful drawing and observation.
2. Contrarian Origins & Rethinking the ‘How-To’ (05:10–07:00)
- Nishant’s Reluctant Authorship:
Nishant shares that he initially refused to write a how-to art book, feeling unsuited to giving prescriptive advice:"I am, fortunately / unfortunately, a contrarian. I don't listen to good advice. If somebody has good advice for me, I'm definitely not doing that thing." (05:54)
- He accepted the challenge by writing the kind of book he'd actually enjoy—one that prompts readers to find their own way.
3. Presence, Perfection, and Your Unique Line (07:01–10:59)
- Drawing the Long Line:
Nishant explains the power of embracing one’s unique “imperfect” line:"A long line is instantly your line. Nobody can fake your long line quite the way you drew it... it carries the signature of that emotion." (07:03)
- Rejecting Perfection:
Both speakers unpack how the pursuit of perfection is antithetical to authentic art."If you ask anybody what art they like, they don't like art from perfect people. The art they love is not perfect art." – Nishant (09:09)
- Connection Over Impressing:
Andy adds,"The main thing we think we could do with art is impress someone. It's one of the least interesting feelings... Art is so much more about connecting to another person." (09:42)
4. Social Media, External Validation, and Creative Freedom (10:17–11:42)
- On Social Media’s Influence:
Nishant laments how external validation and comparative thinking disrupt the creative process:"Now before the moment of creation, the first instinct in our heads is, what is so-and-so person going to think about it?... This whole business... takes you out of your creativity." (10:17)
5. The Nonlinear Creative Journey (11:43–24:31)
- Life Story Detours:
Nishant details an unexpected path from Indian engineer to novelist, political satirist, stand-up comic, and finally artist."Straight line journeys would be so boring... I am so glad it didn’t happen that way for me." (11:59)
- Influence of Place:
Chicago’s creative energy inspires Nishant to pursue his passions."Because of this country, because of the culture of this brilliant, amazing city, I gave myself the permission to chase my dreams." (19:28)
- Quitting the PhD and Struggling with Words:
Nishant opens up about quitting academia to write a novel (which didn’t quite happen), political burnout, and eventually falling into observational drawing as a solace and source of joy.
6. Art as Observation, Connection, and Acceptance (24:32–29:23)
- Finding Joy in Process:
Drawing strangers in cafés and public spaces became a way of engaging with the world and finding commonality beyond surface differences."[Drawing] is not because the drawings are good, but because I’m finding something that's making me truly at peace with my world." (26:46)
- Curiosity as the Guiding Thread:
Andy notes:"I do see one straight line and that's the line of curiosity from the beginning to the end." (28:06)
7. Curiosity vs. Strategy in Creative Practice (29:24–34:35)
- Two Modes of Creativity:
Andy and Nishant discuss the creative tension between starting with an end in mind (strategy) versus following curiosity with no set outcome. - Drawing as Nonverbal Curiosity:
Nishant emphasizes how drawing can fulfill curiosity outside of words:"What drawing has shown me is that so much curiosity we have for the world does not exist in words." (29:24)
8. The Curiosity Spiral Exercise (34:36–41:25)
- Practical Exercise:
To combat intimidation by the blank page and tap into true interests, Nishant prescribes the “curiosity spiral”:- Start a drawing with whatever catches your eye, without overthinking.
- Spiral outwards, giving less attention to less interesting areas.
- Let both what you love and what you ignore shape the image—“your taste is not just the stuff you love...allow yourself to hate certain things.” (40:28)
- This builds authentic voice and habit, sidestepping standards of perfection or completeness.
9. Leaving Room for Magic (43:38–47:27)
- Letting Serendipity In:
Nishant tells the story behind a drawing where a father and son entered the scene unexpectedly—reminding us why it’s vital to leave empty spaces, both in art and in life:"If you leave room for magic on your page, sometimes that magic appears—but you have to be in the business of leaving some room for it." (43:48)
- Wider Application:
Andy connects this to making room for serendipity in our calendars and daily lives, noting that strategy and control usually dominate.
10. Embracing Chaos, Relinquishing Control (47:28–54:32)
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Against the Optimization Fetish:
Nishant criticizes culture’s obsession with productivity and efficiency:"The process of art for me was the process of becoming a child again... From process-oriented people, we become results-oriented people." (48:06)
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Living with Uncertainty:
Quitting academia for art meant letting go of measurable progress:"Learning to embrace this situation was so important, and learning to not quantify it, to not struggle to put productivity measures into it." (66:38)
11. The Best and Weirdest Time to Be an Artist (68:18–71:59)
- Context of the Times:
Nishant contends there's never been a better time to be an artist, given access to materials, audiences, and autonomy."This is the best time in human history to be an artist. Leonardo da Vinci would kill to be in your place." (68:22)
- Curiosity Makes You an Artist; Strategy Keeps You There:
It’s the combination of sustained curiosity and strategic adaptation that makes a sustainable professional creative life.
12. Style Is About Precision, Not Perfection (54:33–59:11)
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Lessons from Engineering:
Nishant introduces the concepts of accuracy (getting it “right”) vs. precision (being consistent)."As an artist, we don't have to be accurate...What brings style, what brings you out is your consistency." (55:20)
- Cites Miles Davis:
"Once is a mistake, twice is an idea, three times is style." (57:30)
- Cites Miles Davis:
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Example:
Nishant's signature “feetless” people drawings emerged from a “mistake” he made his own through repetition.
13. Infinite Games and Lasting Creative Joy (72:19–73:11)
- Finite vs. Infinite Games:
The creative life is an infinite game—there are no ultimate winners, just the ongoing pleasure of playing."Life is an infinite game...the practice of art is also an infinite game...the doing it is the joy of it." (72:28)
14. Sneaky Art: Dual Definitions (62:20–63:50)
- The Art and the Process Are Both Sneaky:
"I was trying to be sneaky to begin...And I realized that the art is sneaky, too. It's right there, but you can't see it until you're willing to give it time and attention." (62:20)
15. The “No Point B” Call to Adventure (81:08–81:37)
- Weekly Creative Challenge:
Andy closes with a challenge inspired by Nishant—to begin at Point A (an action, destination, or drawing) without predefining Point B. This is an exercise in presence, curiosity, and openness to unplanned outcomes."Go pick a point A. Don't have a point B...Your whole life in this era...is encouraging you to be in your strategic brain, to get the right outcome. So let's do one where you just go and see what happens." (80:19)
Notable Quotes & Moments
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On Authenticity and Process:
"The more you do this, it gets us to appreciate how beautiful our everyday world is...There is incredible beauty everywhere, and it’s waiting for us to see it."
– Nishant Jain (46:24) -
On Art’s Role:
"Art is not about making pretty drawings...Why do we do it? Because the doing it is the joy of it." – Nishant Jain (60:46, 73:11)
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On Creative Permission:
"This is something I love to give credit to. America and Chicago. No other place in the world could I have done it."
– Nishant Jain (19:28) -
On Mistakes as Style:
"Style comes from staying with the things you think of as your mistakes. Staying with those things until they give you some kind of bright idea."
– Nishant Jain (57:30) -
On the Double-Edged Sword of Strategy:
"When we over index on strategy, we over index on outcome. And the more we over index on results...the narrower we make our worldview and our experience."
– Nishant Jain (47:58) -
On Infinite Games:
"Life, your life is an infinite game. And the practice of art is also an infinite game...the doing it is the joy of it."
– Nishant Jain (72:28)
Key Timestamps & Segments
- 00:00–05:10: Setting the stage—why creativity needs rekindling
- 07:03–09:09: The philosophy of long lines and imperfection
- 11:43–24:31: Nishant’s winding path from engineering to art
- 29:24–34:35: Curiosity vs. strategy and the limits of words
- 34:36–41:25: The curiosity spiral drawing exercise
- 43:38–47:27: Leaving room for magic—serendipity in art and life
- 54:33–59:11: Precision vs. accuracy and the making of style
- 62:20–63:50: Dual definition of “sneaky art”
- 72:28–73:11: Infinite games—why the creative journey never ends
- 81:08–81:37: The "No Point B" creative challenge
Resources & Recommendations
- Nishant Jain:
- Sneaky Art Podcast (audio-only, longform art and creativity conversations)
- Make Sneaky Art (book)
- Substack Newsletter
- Andy J. Pizza:
Action Step: Call to Adventure
“No Point B”
Go somewhere, begin a drawing, or start a creative act with no predetermined Point B. Let curiosity (not results or expectations) guide what happens next. Notice what magic—large or small—sneaks in along the way.
Episode Tone & Final Takeaways
The conversation is warm, philosophical, irreverent, and practical—full of both deep encouragement and sly humor. Both Andy and Nishant invite listeners to embrace the twisty, turny, frustratingly nonlinear path of creative work; to value curiosity over optimization, process over product, and unique perspective over perfection.
As Nishant says, “You have to find a way to keep doing it and to keep doing it and to keep doing it, because the doing it is the joy of it.”
For more on the practice of making sneaky art, curiosity-driven living, and creative encouragement, check out the resources above and "stay pepped up, y'all!"