← Creative Pep Talk
Loading summary
Transcript5 lines
- [00:01]
A
The most common problem there is you don't have enough work. No matter what kind of creative you are, whether it's opportunities or sales or clients, whatever it is, the most common problem that we have is that we're just not getting enough of those as much as we want or need. And I think that there is a secret to getting regular work. The key, the secret key to regular work is not what you think it is. And so we're going of get into what I think it is. I think we have two guesses. I think both of them are often wrong. And there's a third one that we mostly don't know exists. And I can tell you that because even over the past couple years that have been not the best for illustration client work. I. Yeah, it's not the most I've ever worked in client stuff. I've done more books than I have the client focus. But I've got some of the best projects I've ever got in the past few years, even as it's been a little bit quieter. And so I think I have a sense of why that might be. And we're going to get into that and then we're going to end with the show and Tell. That is our creative call to adventure. It's either show and Tell or a modified version called Explore and Tell. If you're not quite ready for show and Tell, and this will help you do the thing that I think is essential to getting more regular opportunities coming your way, go on the creative journey. It's easy to get lost, but don't worry, you'll lift off. Sometimes you just need a creative pep talk. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. I freaking love having Squarespace as a sponsor because it's a easy to sell it when you love something this much. I'm a big fan. Squarespace is an all in one website platform designed to help you succeed online. Here's what I love about Squarespace. They're intuitive and super versatile. Drag and drop tools mean you can make a custom website without knowledge of code. That makes people say, whoa, who made that for you? Looks like you built that from scratch. People have really said stuff like that to me about my site and I built it myself quite easily with Squarespace. You can check it out@andijpizza.com if you want to check that out. What I did with it, it doesn't look template and it screams my creative brand. I also love that I have all of my domains through Squarespace now, which makes it seamless and easy to manage. I know the first thing as creative folks do when we get an idea is to grab that URL. Now you can keep track of all your websites and your domains in one place. That's super intuitive and easy to manage. Head to squarespace.com pep talk for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use promo code PEP Talk all one word to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Nothing hits like home cooking and hellofresh makes it easy to do more of it this year with recipes that feel good and taste delicious night after night. I've got three kids and eating together has been one of our core values as a family since day one. But man, it is hard to get home cooked food on the table every night with all the activities and all the action, let alone create something that everybody likes. So I am stoked to have some hello fresh meals on the way. I'm looking at the Pesto Bacon and Tomato Chicken Bake, the Tex Mex Beef Bowl, Marinara Meatballs and Mash. I think the kids are particularly going to be interested in that one. My youngest has been really into cooking lately, so I'm excited to have all the stuff together, easily accessible and ready to cook with her. I think she's gonna really Love it with HelloFresh. Choose from more than 100 recipes every week, including cuisines from around the world and meals that help you beat the winter blues. Go to hellofresh.com Pep Talk 10 FM to get 10 free meals, a free Zwilling knife, a $144.99 value knife on your third box offer valid while supplies last free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. Okay, so I'm pretty jazzed right now, so I'm going to try to rein it in just a tad. I know you came here for the pep, but I don't want to scare you. I'm feeling very, very charged because I just got off a call with a group that a group of Patreon backers and substack supporters of this show. We do two calls a month with the group. One is Creative Pep Rally where it's everybody and we're mainly talking about creativity and creative wins in our creative practice. Then there's also Creative Pro Talk where we talk more with creative professionals and we're talking about career wins and we're talking about solving career problems. And we've started doing a thing where we have one creative in the hot seat and they tell us about what they're working on and where they're stuck. And then people in the group and myself included, give feedback and possible solutions and encouragements about that project. So I just got off of one of those creative pro talk calls, so I'm very jazzed. It was very fun, very exciting. But the reason I'm doing this episode is because I think there was something from this call that might be relevant to you. And it's about how, as creatives, we often have the same problem, which is we don't have enough work, we don't have enough opportunity, they're not letting us do as much of the thing that we want to do. That's the most common problem. And I think that most of us jump to two possible solutions that are both often not really going to help you. And so I want to talk about those two and then suggest what a real solution might be to this problem of not getting enough work, not getting enough opportunities, and then talk about how you can implement it. So when we don't have enough work, we often think. I think the first thing we think is the problem is that people don't know about us. We are not being discovered enough. We are not on enough people's radar. We need to go viral, we need to take off on social media. We need to get on a new social platform where we can get ahead of everybody else and really pick up some steam so that enough people know about us. That is the solution of discoverability. We need more people to discover us. That's the first one. We think that's a problem, rarely the problem. That is a problem, but it's only a problem if you have solved these other two parts. The other thing we jump to is people don't know about us or people don't like us. People don't like our product, people don't like the thing we're trying to sell. It's not good enough. And again, maybe slightly better problem to focus on than being discovered. Some people just focus on discovery. They think if I could go viral on TikTok, then I can think about what product to sell, because now the world's my oyster. I got all these people looking at me now I can just sell them whatever I want. I'll figure that out later once I crack the big thing, which is discoverability. Not true. There are lots of people that have thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of followers that don't know how to turn it into a business because they didn't think about the product. But those aren't the only two parts of this equation. And they're the least of your worries. It's often not that you just need more people to hear about it, or you just need to get the right product, get the right work, tweak things, tweak things, make it that much better. It's not that it's more often than not a middle piece in the audience. True fan journey. And it gets at. What is the difference between someone who knows about you and someone that's a fan? Think about it like music. Someone said to you, do you know this musician? Now, you could either say, no, I don't know, or yes, I do know, or I'm a fan of that person. What's the difference between one that you know about, you've discovered them, and one that you would say you are a fan of? To me, part of that equation is consistency. So if you know about them, you've heard that song, you might even like one of their songs. But that's not going to make you a fan. That's not going to turn you into what a true fan is, someone who would spend a considerable. A considerable amount of money on that work. Right. So what's the difference? The difference is it's not just a single that put them on your radar, it's an album. It's a body of work that has transformed you into someone who's passively knowledgeable, into someone who is engaged and trusts that musician to produce good stuff. If you're a fan, you're looking forward to the rest of the cuts on the album and the next album, because you think this person has the goods. They know what they're doing. They know how to produce this kind of thing that I'm after. Even if you're not even sure what that thing is, they're sure about it. They know what they're trying to produce in you, and they've made an effort to produce that multiple times. And so the key piece isn't discovery, it isn't sales. It's in between the thing that goes from knowing about an artist to being a fan of them. And it's trust. It's building trust that they can produce the goods. Now, what are the goods? We're going to talk about that next. But I think this is so essential because I feel like we all don't even realize that this is part of the equation. And then once you do, you might feel a little bit overwhelmed because how do you know that you do have the goods? And then how do you figure out what are the goods? How do I produce them? How do I get them out there. How do I show people and tell people that I've got them? You do exactly that. You do show and tell. Let's talk about that next. Okay, so show and tell. We're going to get to that in just a second. That's going to be our creative call to adventure. First, I got to explain this a little bit more. This is a concept that we've talked about on this show a lot, but it's one that I think is pretty abstract. And it seems abstract when it's really very practical, very real, very tangible in your own experience. And that concept is the concept of value. Now, I'm a little bit uncomfortable with that concept or that word because it sounds too businessy, marketing y, that kind of thing. Not very creative, but it's just the best word to use. And the truth is, you've probably even heard that businesses solve a problem. If you want to have a creative practice that has a relationship to an audience, I think you do have to be good at solving a problem. The thing about that is that's not how we mentally think about what we turn to creative work for. So when you go to turn on a movie or you go to turn on an album, you're usually trying to solve a problem. Whether it's like, I want to have fun. I want to enjoy this. I want to be moved. I want to be moved in a very particular way. When you go put on a record on your vinyl player, you're thinking, I want this vibe. You're eating that album for an outcome. And you might not be aware of it, but you have trusted. If you bought the album, you knew you didn't have this thing where you heard a song on a Spotify playlist, you clicked it, listen to the rest of the album, and none of it sounded like that. None of that. Nothing else on that album gave you anything in the realm of the feeling that the single gave you. That's why you know of that artist. You like one of their songs, but you're not a fan. And the difference is they are able to produce maybe one feeling, maybe one specific feeling, maybe. Maybe some connected feelings. Maybe they're an artist that knows like a. Like a Radiohead is someone or Kendrick Lamar is a good example of. These are people that know how to produce a handful of feelings reliably, maybe even more. They know the craft of doing that. Most bands are more like a Drake kind of thing where he said he's trying to make you have an album of what it feels like when you're cruising in a car at night. Like the perfect album to companion that, the soundtrack to that. That's the value that that person's trying to provide. Now, I'm not a major Drake fan, but if you are, that's kind of. That's kind of the vibe I personally, as I was trying to explore and figure out what is the vibe that I want people to get from the picture book. And each picture book might have a slightly different one. It might have a couple related ones that are complimentary. Sometimes, if you're like a proper artist, you might give them two types of value that are in conflict with each other because you're gonna disturb them a little bit. That's totally valid. But you have an intention, you have an idea not of just what you want to give them, but also the craft of how you produce that in somebody. Now, real quick, I just have to get. I got to get close here. Listen, if you are an artist and you are overwhelmed by the idea that you would understand the thing you're trying to deliver and also know how to produce that feeling in somebody, you are in good company. I mean, if I do say so myself, I was there. I am there from time to time, but especially early on when I have this idea of like, oh, I want to make a story. And there's this kind of an idea of what a story is supposed to produce in somebody. It's kind of like going to an open mic, and you're a comedian, comedy open mic, and you're like, I know that I'm trying to make them laugh. That's an overwhelming equation. That takes a lot of confidence. That's a lot of pressure. But let me just say, first of all, you can learn how to do these things. You can figure out the craft of how to produce the thing you want to do. It just takes not even brains. It just takes heart. It just takes caring enough to unraveling this. The guy that wrote the picture book, a pizza with everything on it that I illustrated, he brought up a really good point around this. He said that Penn and Teller talk about magic. Magic tricks are usually just. You would never guess how much effort the magician took to pull this off. And that's why it seems like magic, because you would never imagine that someone would go to those lengths to guess your card. And the same is true for art. You don't have to be a genius. You don't have to have all the brains in the world to produce a laugh, to create a punchline, to do a story that makes you Cry. To make a podcast that makes you pepped, you don't have to be a genius, you just have to care. You just have to care enough to learn it, to obsess over it, to study it. And then you will figure out these are the pieces. This is what it goes into to create an analogy that makes you feel pepped. This is what it takes to tell a story to kids that make you feel excited or moved or whatever it is engaged to get attention. And so I got a little bit off course because I was doing a little pep talk within a pep talk, saying my little tangent about, hey, I get that this can sound scary and overwhelming. I get like, it's much easier to be like, I'm like the alt comic that doesn't. That does comedy, but not for laughs. Now I like all comedy, don't get me wrong. I like weird stuff that challenges things and all that. I do like all that. But I get the impulse to want to be so avant garde that you're saying, I don't even know what I'm trying to produce in somebody. Because as soon as you say I'm trying to produce that, now you've made yourself vulnerable, not just to other people, but to yourself because you're like, can I do that? Do I know how to do that? Am I good enough to do that? You are. You just have to care. You just have to care enough. Back to the main point. Just. Just to highlight how this has played out in my own creative journey. When I was making Invisible Things early on, even before I knew it was Invisible Things, the kids book that I made with my wife Sophie, I knew that one thing I want them to feel is the feeling of I get when I was watching stop frame animations of plants growing when I was a kid. Like, I don't know, this was in a lot of different things. I don't know exactly where I thought of this from, but when I would see like a stop frame animation of a plant, like a flower blossoming, it would make me feel like, life is precious. Life is amazing. Life is the universe is good. It's like giving, I don't know, it's generative. It's this very difficult to pin down thing. But I wanted to pin it down and I wanted to understand how do you produce that? It was a feeling of mystery and awe and I don't know, I'll say awe. And I got really obsessed with how do I produce that. I have other versions of this thing too. Like values. As you go to choose a value, I Would say, try to choose something that is a noun, not an adjective. Now awe is a noun. It's something you can have. Hope is a noun. Go look it up if you doubt me. Presence is a noun. Go look it up. Sometimes it's hard to know, is this a noun? Is this a person, place or thing? This isn't a grammar class, but something that you can hold, something that you can have, you're trying to hold it and hand it to somebody else with your work. And so I was trying to produce this feeling that I got watching this stop frame animation of a flower. And this is something I put in mood boards and mood videos that we made for Invisible Things when we were pitching it, those little scenes like that. And the craziest thing that affirmed this, but blew my mind, was Jenny Slate, the comedian, said the exact same thing on Mike Birbiglia's podcast, that she wanted to produce this feeling of watching a stop frame animation of a plant growing and blossoming. And my brain exploded because I'd been talking about that and thinking about that for years. And I thought, this is like, I'm totally. I've lost it. Like, what is this? So somebody got it right and they had the same, a similar kind of intention. So this is something that artists do. They have an impulse, they have an intention. They learn the craft of producing this feeling in somebody else. They learn the chemical reaction, what does it take? What's the equation that produces this in somebody? And it's difficult to do. And it's fun. It's fun to keep trying to do it. This is why I keep making this podcast, because I know I want to pep you up. And I have some theories about what produces pep. And I don't want you to just think it, I want you to feel it. So I know, like analogies, metaphors, stories, I know there are ways to, like, produce this thing in somebody else. And I'm gonna keep coming back and trying it, first of all, because it's fun to do that, to exercise your skills and your craft. And that's what's so fun about creative work, is that it's got a little bit of a casino vibe because it's got this intermittent reward. You can't do it every time. That's what's so fun about storytelling or joke telling or illustration, you know, creating concepts is that you don't get it every time. And so it's kind of addictive in a very productive way. So I love that about art. I'm really letting the ADHD fly here. Today because I'm pumped. I'm just letting you know. I know that I'm getting out of control, very excited. But that's because I think one of the ways to pass on pep is just to capture when I'm pepped and then you can put this on and hopefully it's a little bit contagious. I wanted to add one little thing. So part of the reason I think it's important to create projects where you're doing this on a regular basis. It's one of them is just so that you're just doing the thing that you were born to do that you want to do without anybody's permission. So I would recommend having a project where you are producing this value for people so that it's fun, so that people know that you can do it. You're building trust because they're watching you do this over and over. And then the third reason is so that you're game ready. So that when someone shows up to get you to do a talk or get you to do a show or get you to do a set or get you to do some client work, you are. Your muscles have an atrophied because you're not waiting to get called up to the plate. You're doing it regularly. That's why it's a creative practice. And so those are some of the reasons why I think it's important to have an idea of what this value is, what it looks like. It took me years of pursuing illustration to even have an idea of what this looked like. Like what. What was the value and what was the craft of producing that value. But it's such a worthy pursuit and now that I'm on this side of it of like, oh, I love this. I have an idea about this. I keep wanting to do this over and over. I'm just so desperate to tell past me starting out that was overwhelmed by the notion of even trying to go to the open mic and be funny and say that I was trying to be funny. You can do it. You just have to care. You just have to be really into it. You just have to be dedicated and you just have to keep trying and you will get it and it will be what makes creative practice so satisfying. Now let's get to the last thing, which is our creative call to adventure. It's called show and tell or explore and tell. And this is how you can start doing this in your own creative practice. A well built wardrobe is about pieces that work together and hold up over time. That's what quint does best premium materials, thoughtful design, and everyday staples that feel easy to wear and easy to rely on even as the weather shifts. And boy is it shifting. For the longest time I was really frustrated with the fashion situation because I was aware of the ethical issues. I was aware of a lot of the stuff I bought fell to pieces in seconds. And I am an artist for a living with three kids and I just couldn't afford the really, really quality stuff. But that's before I knew about Quint's. Quint's has quality, ethics and no middlemen, so it's a price I can afford even as a full time creat is what's so great about Quint's. Built to wear for a long time and still look good. Plus they partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. Refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.compep talk for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com Pep Talk free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Pep Talk
- [24:23]
B
Monster Energy everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra. That's the OG it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing, but Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava and they all bring the Monster Energy punch.
- [24:41]
A
So if you've been living in the
- [24:42]
B
White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe and every single one is Zero Sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.
- [24:54]
A
Okay, Creative call to adventure today. Something you can do with this stuff. Not just feel it, but do something is either show and tell or explore and tell. Now this is what I recommend you do. I think it's paramount that you have a regular creative practice on the Internet somewhere where people are regularly. So it could be in real life, could be at your gallery space, could be, I don't know, could be a mail thing. You send it a zine by mail, whatever it is. I strongly believe that unless you're the exception to the rule and you have won the creative lottery and all eyes are on you and you can just sit on the ball and wait till the time runs out and then you can drop your album. Unless you're in that scenario. If you want a regular creative practice, you need to show up on a regular basis like I do on this show. I show up on this show every week. I'm trying to produce a feeling in you. I claim that this is a pep talk So I promised you that, in the same way that you do at an open mic promise that you're going to make laughs. I'm trying to make the promise that I'm going to make you feel pepped up. I try to do it every single week. I also try to do it in the illustration for the episode. That's another creative practice of mine, to show up, stay game ready, all that kind of thing. What that means for you is, do you have a show and tell project? Do you have a place where you show them? This is what you can trust me to do so that when they discover you and they check out the album, which is this podcast, or the artwork for this podcast, or a newsletter that you make, or a YouTube channel or Instagram or whatever it is, and you should put it wherever people look for that kind of value, trying to cram in so much information into this one. But you should choose your channel based on where people typically go to find that kind of thing. And then show them by doing the art that produces that, by trying to tell them the jokes that make them laugh. Show them, then also tell them what you're trying to do. So name it. Pep talk, if that's what you're trying to do. Or do a video where you're saying, this is what I'm trying to do. You can do this is the art, and then this is the behind the scenes. And in the behind the scenes, you're telling them, this is what I was hoping to produce in there somewhere in this vein. If you are one of the lottery winners that has the ability to. You, you are so incredible that you have the privilege of being mysterious. You don't need to do this. But if you're that person, you're not listening to this because that's literally only Beyonce and like three other people. Everybody else, we all have to show and tell a bit. Every musician you like, every actor you like has to do podcasts. They're all on podcasts because they have to tell you. They have to tell you about it so that you'll give them some time. 99 out of 100 of your favorite bands have to do that, or favorite comedians have to do that. Favorite actors have to do that. So you're probably one of those people. If you got this far into this episode, you're one of those people. You have to show and tell. So do a project, a regular project, have a practice where you're going to show them that you can produce this value and they can trust you. And that could look like an album that could look like a podcast, that could look like a newsletter. If you're a writer, you have to be able to produce that value over and over and then also tell them on occasion, show behind the scenes, say, this is what I'm trying to produce is what I'm trying to do. So you. So they know what to look for. So they know this is your. Their thing. So they know, go to this thing. The name of the band should kind of hint that way, kind of feel that way. It should feel kind of like the feeling you're trying to produce. The name of the podcast should say, this is a pep talk. This is a laugh fest. This is going to make you cry. Whatever it is, it should be tastefully telling you that. Now, the reason I called it show and tell or explore and Tell is that you can do this one of two ways. I think of it like you can be Gandalf in Lord of the Rings and you are the guide where you're like, I know how to make you laugh and I'm gonna bring you to laughter, Frodo, if you have a sense of like, I know I can do this. Call it that. By the time I started this podcast, Creative Pep Talk, I felt like I kind of know how to do this. Still a challenge, still intermittently successful. But I have a sense, I have some ideas of the craft of doing this, and I did it on a blog before I did this. I feel like I can do it. If you're not there yet, you might be in a more exploratory phase. Exploratory phase. You're Samwise Gamgee. You're going on the ride with Frodo. You're saying, hey, I think we need to go to Mordor. I don't know. I'm not a mega Lord of the Rings fan. And one time I called him Gollum, Golem, and it's actually Gollum. And someone called me out for it. Look, I'm not a mega fan. It's just a metaphor. I don't know. An example, a parallel. If you don't know either if you don't know the value you're trying to produce or you don't know how to do it, you don't know the craft of it. You can work it out in the work. You don't have to wait till you figure that all out. You need to figure it out. Going to the open mics, you need to figure it out. Making the project, the Explore and tell project, where you're like, I'm trying to figure out what this work is. I'm trying to figure out how to do it. I'm trying to figure out what I'm trying to do to you in this work and come along for the ride. That's also really interesting. So one or the other, I think, honestly, if you want a regular creative practice, regular connection, maybe that even looks like this. Being your profession, I think you need a regular outpouring. That is a show and tell, explore and tell project. And so your call to adventure is to think about which one of those you need to do and what that could look like. And for you, it might not be something as robust and elaborate as a, as a podcast with episode art and video and all these different bells and whistles. For me, it looked like doing a character every weekday for a year. The first time I really started to commit to that. Before that, we did a zine that was like, we're going to do this zine a few times. After that, it looked like a few other projects. It looked like the blog that I had. I had to build up the ability to have a habit and to believe that I could follow through. And I had to build that slowly. So you, you might start with something way smaller than that. But I think it is essential. A quick conclusion. I am self conscious about doing this episode because I know I'm feeling pepped, I know I'm feeling jazzed, maybe even a little manic on being excited about this idea. And I wanted to bring that up because like I joked earlier, I want you to know that I know that I'm getting very, very excited. Maybe I shouldn't have had this extra coffee today. But the reason I bring it up is because it's an example of the stuff that we're talking about today. I think you have to have the courage to feel things on stage, whether it be on a podcast or on a YouTube video or literally on stage. You have to, if you're going to be an artist or even in your illustrations, you have to show up vulnerably and really try to be in that feeling, share that feeling. And I'm aware of, as I'm making this episode and I'm thinking about this is going to go on the Internet. People are going to see me in real time having a feeling. And I just thought, man, I feel like so much stuff on the Internet is stuff where people are trying to be on a podcast, be on a reel, whatever, and do it in a way where they're not feeling, where they're not showing any emotion. They're being. And I mean, it's right there. It just occurred to me, that's what nonchalance is, being nonchalant. That's what it is. And it's why it's kind of become the standard on the Internet now. There are things that fall outside of that. Rage, bait, very performative, crying on the Internet, whatever. There are things on the other opposite ends of the spectrum. But the reason why I'm going to put this episode out, even though I'm a little bit self conscious about publicly feeling feelings on the Internet, is because I think that's what the artist is there to do. And it's going to require some courage to say, I'm going to try to go make you feel this. And it's going to require some courage to go feel this. And I'll just say that one of the craft elements that you have, we could talk about a lot of them when we're talking about producing value. An example of this for me is like when I was reading Walk It in my pocket by Dr. Seuss, and there's a VUG under the rug, and it's just a drawing of a rug with a bump in it. You never see the vug. It produced pure horror. It was a horror movie of a picture book for me, in the best possible sense. I was obsessed with it, and I had to think about what created that feeling, what was the craft of that? It was the space between what they were saying and what they were doing, what they were saying, what they were telling me and what they were showing me. The show and tell. It was showing me a bump under a rug and it was telling me there's a VUG under that. And it was this space between the showing and telling that was very interesting. And it was producing this thing that's one part of the craft. Another part of the craft can be hijacking someone's mirror neurons. That's another way to do this. So me just showing up when I'm pepped will maybe make you pepped by contagion. Because we, when we're watching a movie, we have these mirror neurons. You've probably heard this before. I don't know what I'm talking about because I just heard a scientists talk about it. But I'm told that when you watch that, you feel it. That's why when you're watching a movie, the character is doing something and feeling a feeling, and you're feeling that. That's why you're along for the ride. So I just wanted to highlight that's my hope is that this episode, as embarrassing as it is for me to be so pepped in public about something as silly as this creative career idea. I hope that just by watching this, listening to this, that you got a piece of that if you did. Look, this is one of the few times I want to say, hop in the comments and just tell me that I'm not. I haven't completely lost it because it takes, I'll just say a little bit of courage more than I have most days to show up with that much vulnerability. Hey, I want to tell you about a podcast we're partnering with called Planet Visionaries. This show is not about the problems facing our planet, but the amazing solutions and work work that's being done to save and protect our planet. If you are a sensitive, creative person like me and suffer from environmental dread from time to time, this show is for you. I was listening to a recent episode featuring actor Mark Ruffalo and Gloria Walton, the CEO of the Solutions Project, and hearing the amazing progress that they've made in the space of renewable energy really filled me with hope. Like I actively noticed. Wow. I am so comforted and inspired by this. Go check out Planet Visionaries, hosted by rock climber and founder Alex Honnold wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay, the podcast is over, so I don't know why you're still listening, but I am glad that you enjoyed it enough to stick to the end. I have one more thing for you. If you're in a place where you're feeling a lack of clarity and you want to figure out your industry, market and niche and find the perfect strategic side project to do next, go sign up to our newsletter@andyjpizza.substack.com and you will get a confirmation email that will give you the download of our Creative Career Path handbooklet. And the whole process is in there. And you might also get a few bonuses in there depending on when you sign up. But again, thanks for listening. Glad you enjoyed the episode and stay pepped up, y'. All.