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I listened to a podcast with Rich Roll and Zach Braff recently. I've been doing this thing where instead of just picking a podcast episode that's the latest in my feed, I've been doing sort of mini deep dives on people that I really like their perspective. And recently I've been doing a deep dive on Zach Braff. Anyway, Rich Roll is one of my favorite interviewers and he had a great episode with Mr. Braff. And at one point, Zach was talking about two things which on the surface seem really unrelatable, but I felt very deeply, the first being now, because of his success as an actor and director, he gets to do some pretty high profile projects. And he's a director with some high profile legendary actors, people like Morgan Freeman and Harrison Ford. And Rich was asking him how it felt to basically be in charge of Icons of Hollywood. How did he handle the feeling of, you know, leading people who ostensibly, you may think, don't need to be led. And he said, you know, everybody in any position, they. They want to be led, actually, they want someone to lead them and they want to have collaborators. And yes, of course, they want to be respected for their time and their skill, but also they want to work with great people and they want you to have confidence in your role. He said there are a lot of times where he does feel. I don't think he used the word imposter syndrome, but it kind of sounded like this, where he would be in his trailer and he says, there are a lot of times I have to look in the mirror and give myself a pep talk and say, you need to go tell Morgan Freeman to do another take. And I think that's so relatable from the standpoint of there were so many times in my day to day where if I show up with more confidence or even just willingness to try and put myself out there and fail, I know I will be more successful. And he dovetailed that story with a story of Garden State where he said, you know, when I was making this film, at the time it was an indie film, it was very low budget. He said, when I was directing it, I would place music in the scenes, the music that I wanted. But everybody in town, meaning Hollywood, everybody was telling me, there's no way you're going to get any of these songs. And usually what directors will do is if they can't get the rights to a song, they'll sub in a song that kind of sounds similar, has a similar emotional vibe. But he was very dedicated to these specific songs and everybody Told him, you're not going to get those songs because they're very mainstream. You're gonna have to pay a lot of money in licensing fees and you simply don't have the budget. And a lot of people would agree with that. And maybe they would try, maybe they reach out, and if they got rejected, they would go and they would place in some other music as a stand in. But he said at that point in his life, he pointed out that he didn't know what he didn't know, and he was just so brave because he just didn't know any better. And he said he just didn't take no for an answer. Not that he was pushy, but that he was persistent. He gave the story about the Simon and Garfunkel song the Only Living Boy in New York, and he said he was immediately rejected. And he followed up a bunch of times. And at one point, he asked their business manager to come see the film with the song included as a private screening. And they saw the film and it was a moving scene, and they. They cried in the film room and they said, yes, you can use the song. Every single song, he said, was a battle like that. And of course, it gets a little bit easier once people say yes. Other people are more likely to say yes. But the point that I want to make here is he was so persistent, and there are so few areas in my life and business where I would be that persistent. But when you look back at that soundtrack, at that movie, it's now this, like, cult thing. The soundtrack is critically acclaimed. It's incredible. And it only happened because he was really persistent and didn't take no for an answer. He found unique ways to have the conversation get buy in, make the vision real. And it comes back to this. This conversation I had with Nathan Berry over a year ago when he said when he was building ConvertKit and he was at a point of struggle, his mentor asked him, do you still want this? And if yes, have you done everything in your power to make it a success? I think about that question all the time. Because how many of us are doing everything in our power to make what we're trying to do a success? I would bet very, very few. And so when you think about your business, if you think that you are not hitting your goals or getting to the place that you want, I would ask you, is there a lack of courage that might actually be standing in your way? A lack of persistence, a lack of vulnerability? A lack of courage to really go after the thing that you want and do the things that you would do to be able to say I have done everything in my power to make this a success. I know I'm not doing it. It's a call to arms that I'm giving myself right now. I thought maybe I would pass it along. I hope you had a great week. I hope you have a great weekend. If you're not on my newsletter already, I really recommend doing that@creatorscience.com I am going to be running a Black Friday promotion and I think you might want to consider it. So go to creatorscience.com and enroll there. If you like this episode, you're listening on Spotify. Leave a comment down below. Otherwise consider leaving a rating review as well because I say it in every episode because it truly does make a difference and I would love to see some more reviews on Apple podcasts to get us to 450. Have a great weekend and I'll talk to you on Tuesday.