← Creator Science with Jay Clouse
Creator Science with Jay Clouse
#239: Justin Moore – What if feels like launching a book and an in-person event at the same time
00:57:51
Digging into the launch of Sponsor Magnet
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- [00:01]
Jay Clouse
As you start to reach more people, things start to feel more complex, there's more to do and more to keep track of, and it starts to actually take time away from creating content.
- [00:10]
Justin Moore
I felt this struggle personally.
- [00:11]
Jay Clouse
The more Creator Science grew, the more it felt like I was dropping the ball. So I did something about it. I built a set of rock solid systems all in notion to support the business as we grew and it worked like a charm. I built Creator HQ to be an all in one workspace designed to save you more time, create more content and drive more revenue. By leveraging Creator hq, we are publishing more than we ever have and we're nearing $1 million in annual revenue because of it. It brings all of your data and processes into one place with custom built dashboards to reduce friction in managing tasks, creating content and collaborating with your team. I've spent more than three years building this and now you can have the same systems that I use right out of the box. If you're new to Notion, don't worry. I've included a ton of specific tutorials to help you learn how to use Notion generally and Creator HQ specifically. I've never seen another Notion product integrate.
- [01:03]
Justin Moore
Tutorials like we have here.
- [01:04]
Jay Clouse
More than 300 other creators are already using Creator HQ and I am not exaggerating when I say I would be lost without this system. As a podcast listener, I'm giving you my best price. You can get 10% off using the promo code podcast at checkout. Just head to creatorhq.co to watch the video and learn more. That's creatorhq.co and use promo code podcast to save 10%.
- [01:28]
April Moore
You're telling me that I have to carve out two hours out of my day for the next year? That's a huge amount of time for me. I could be making videos short form content, but it was a bet that I was willing to make because of this belief that I have that like I really believe that this book should exist.
- [01:55]
Justin Moore
Hello my friend.
- [01:56]
Jay Clouse
Welcome back to another episode of Creator Science. I am back this week with my.
- [02:00]
Justin Moore
Most frequent guest, one of my best friends, Justin Moore.
- [02:04]
Jay Clouse
Justin Moore is a sponsorship coach who has generated over $5 million in brand partnerships. As both a full time creator since 2014 and former influencer marketing agency owner. He brings unique insider knowledge of how brands evaluate and select their ideal partners. Through his school community and latest book sponsor Magnet, Justin shares proven frameworks for attracting, pricing and executing lucrative brand deals with a mission to help creators big and small land 1 million paid sponsorships. When it comes to sponsorships Justin is the guy. No one knows this better than him. He's been on the show a bunch of times now. And these episodes are much less an interview and much more a conversation between two creators who are very comfortable being.
- [02:46]
Justin Moore
Honest with one another. And I know a lot of you enjoy this format.
- [02:49]
Jay Clouse
This episode, though, is special because this week Justin's first ever book is now available for purchase. It's called Sponsor Magnetic. How to attract price and execute your dream brand partnerships. I was an early reader of Sponsor Magnet. I enthusiastically endorsed this book and I think it is a must read for any creator interested in doing sponsorships. In this conversation, we get really candid about the highs and lows of writing this book, including launching it just ahead of its first ever in person event, Sponsor Games, which I will be at in March of this year. The first 100 listeners of this episode can actually get their own edition of Sponsor Magnet for free.
- [03:29]
Justin Moore
You just have to listen to the episode to learn how to be one of those first 100 listeners.
- [03:33]
Jay Clouse
As always, I'd love to hear what you think about this episode, so tag me a Klaus on whatever social platform you use most. I'm personally trying to get better at Instagram, but I'll see it just about anywhere. Just tag me a Clouse, but that's enough for me. Let's jump in and hear from Justin.
- [03:54]
Justin Moore
Justin, welcome back to the show. Good to see you.
- [03:56]
April Moore
What's up, Jay? I'm glad to be here, man. Another one of our hang seshes. I don't know if that's plural, but.
- [04:03]
Justin Moore
I mean, the studio is different both in location, and we've got this fantastic new addition over your right shoulder here.
- [04:10]
April Moore
Yeah, the studio is different. It's not quite dialed in yet. The reason the studio is different is I moved from California to Minnesota, which was a very, very big move for me and my family. I've only ever lived in California, so my mom and my sister are here in Minnesota, so we made the big move with the family. So that's been consuming my life the last couple months. So that's been good. But yeah, the other big thing over my shoulder, as you mentioned, is my first proof coffee of my new book, Sponsor Magnet. So that's crazy.
- [04:40]
Justin Moore
What's it like? What's it like holding that book in your hands, man?
- [04:44]
April Moore
It's really complicated, dude. Like, I cried when I opened the package for the first time. It was really weird. Like I actually recorded it and I saw on my Instagram, April recorded me opening it. It was like a super weird moment that felt like it was the. Everything had been leading to this moment. Not to make it sound super cheesy, but it was like. I don't know, man. It was like. Writing the book was the hardest thing I ever did for a lot of different reasons. I talked about this recently on a live stream that the entire process of writing the book, I was doubting the process of. Is this even the right decision for me and my business?
- [05:19]
Justin Moore
Why?
- [05:20]
April Moore
Well, I have a lot of, like, fear that, like, writing the book is gonna be, like, kill the business, frankly.
- [05:29]
Jay Clouse
Like.
- [05:29]
April Moore
Cause it's weird, dude, because I know that's not rational, but, like, in my head, basically, I have put everything that I know into the book. I didn't hold back anything. You know, if I look at my business, the primary revenue drivers are, like, my course and my coaching, right? And a big reason why I didn't want to write this book for a long time was like, well, if. If I put everything in the book, why will it anyone want to hire me or why will anyone want to go through my course and things like that? And I. I have employees who I am providing a livelihood for, and I care a lot about them. And so there's a chance that writing the book is, like, disruptive. It doesn't help that, like, Tiago Forte wrote this big blog post and thread about how writing the book, like, tanked his course, business and all that. His business is a bit different, obviously, than mine, but I don't know, man. The entire seven, eight months of writing the book, every day I would sit down, and in addition to writing it, I would just be thinking, is this the right decision? Should I be doing this? And there was no right answer. So I don't know, man. I'm very excited about the book, but there's still that big question mark of, is this the right move?
- [06:34]
Justin Moore
I think it's the right move. In your position, I would probably have similar thoughts. But if you don't write this book, somebody's going to write this book. This book doesn't exist yet.
- [06:42]
Jay Clouse
Right?
- [06:42]
Justin Moore
And so it will exist. Like, the time for this book has come. I think you timed it perfectly. I think you're the absolute right person to write the book. And the thing is, information wants to be free. Everything that you know, has also existed in fragmented places all over the Internet. Anyway, I think this just puts you in an incredible category, in an incredible position. And with the Wizards Guild, this is a different model than just education. And I think this is going to drive the Wizards Guild like crazy. So I think it's a very smart move.
- [07:19]
April Moore
Thank you. I think, yes. I mean in my mind, theoretically that's the move, right? It's like, okay, you know, everything I know, here's the book and then you can read the book and never hire me. Like, absolutely. You can get a lot of results from just reading the book. But the thesis is like, you know, there's going to be a fraction of people who read it and then they get an email from a brand and they're like, I don't know what to do about this particular situation. I don't know how much to charge. I don't know, you know, X, Y, Z. And so yeah, the thesis is like, there'll be a percentage of people that we can serve in other ways. And to, you know, my point about Thiago, he doesn't have a coaching program. He doesn't really have other, you know, ways in which you can learn from him beyond the cohort based course that he taught for a long time. And so it is a bit different than his. But again, dude, it's, it's still nerve wracking. It's also wrapped up. It's really complicated, dude. It's wrapped up also in the fact that like I'm taking multiple big swings at once. So like the book comes out January 21st and then my in person event is March 16th to the 19th, which is also a huge undertaking to like bring this thing to life. And so like I'm taking a lot of significant, not just like philosophical swings, but also financial. Like I'm putting a ton of my own money on the line, you know, 20k for the venue, it's going to be 10, 15k for the catering, it's going to be, you know, five figures for videography. It's just like a lot of big ticket stuff that like I'm just kind of praying and hoping that it all works out because I really want these things to exist. It's just scary, dude. Like, it's just really, really scary.
- [08:47]
Justin Moore
Which is why most people don't do it.
- [08:49]
Jay Clouse
Which is why most people don't get.
- [08:51]
Justin Moore
The result that's on the other side of it. I think a lot about the people who like do these things, these like uncommon big scary things, like they're the only ones that actually get the outcome on the other side of it. And I'm on the other side where I typically don't take those big moves that you're taking. And so I'm looking at it like, this is really smart, this is really great. It's probably stressful and painful right now, but you're going to have a crazy Q1 that's going to probably alter what the rest of the year looks like. What do you think happens Q2 through Q4?
- [09:24]
April Moore
Dude, I don't. So I was talking with our mutual friend John Meese, who has written many books about a lot of these fears I have and a lot of the stress I'm feeling right now. And he gave me this good analogy that he learned from somewhere else, which was like, you have seasons of inhaling and exhaling and looking at the last year, basically is like this giant deep breath in of like, you know, writing the book and getting the conference and changing the course from a CBC to an on demand thing. And like, all these, like, big, you know, changes that I'm making to the big and new things that I'm creating from whole cloth. And then the moment that, like, Q2 hits, basically right when the event is over, I'm hopefully looking at that as, like, this finally this huge exhalation where, like, you know, I'm not gonna launch anything new and it's gonna be the season of optimization, you know, of, like, tweaking things, making them better. And so, like, I don't know. I'm hoping. Although I did just think of something else I'm gonna be launching in Q2, but I just can't stop, man. So, yeah, I'm hoping that. I'm hoping that that Q2 is a bit of a. I feel like the book is gonna come out and then there's gonna be this, like, period where it's like, people are reading it. And so I don't think I'm gonna see if there is a negative impact to the business. I'm probably not going to see it for a couple months. So I still feel like I'm not going to really know what it's going to do to the business for a good six months.
- [10:51]
Justin Moore
I don't know if this is going to make you feel better or worse, but in my studies of book writing, because I'd rather study book writing than do the work of writing a book.
- [10:59]
April Moore
That's not true. You have done some chatgpt structuring exercises.
- [11:06]
Justin Moore
Yeah, I'm not going to write that book, though. So in my studies of this, the thing that I've heard several times from people that I really trust on this subject is it's actually a full year before, you know, if the book has legs on its own, which I think is positive or a negative thing, meaning that, like, Month. Three hits and you're kind of like, I don't know, like, give it another 10 months.
- [11:29]
April Moore
That's not comforting at all, actually. Yeah, dude. So much of this, like, online business thing, online creatory thing, there's just, like. There's so many unknowns on the other side of these decisions, whether it's, like, the right or wrong thing to do. Maybe that's just entrepreneurship in general, especially the book. I feel very vulnerable, like, I'm putting myself out there. I'm, like, making a lot of bold claims I'm making. You know, I'm, like, putting my foot down and being like, this is the way you should do things. It feels somehow way more permanent than. Than a YouTube video or a blog post or a newsletter or something. It feels like, for better, for worse, this is my legacy now. There just feels, like so much pressure to that. I don't know, dude. If you caught me, like, a week ago, I'd be like, yes, this is amazing. This is the best thing I ever did. But I just. I feel like I oscillate between these two, like, periods of, like, extreme optimism and extreme, like, is this the right decision? So I don't know, man.
- [12:28]
Justin Moore
Sounds like entrepreneurship.
- [12:29]
April Moore
Yeah, dude. It's like, okay, let me share the counter to this, which is like, this was the right book for me to write. You're right. I'm the right person to write this book. I have no dog in the race. I'm not a manager. Not taking a cut of your deals. I've been a creator. I've run an agency. I've seen both sides of it. I've coached hundreds of people. These are not frameworks that I made up and didn't test on anyone. I know that you're going to get a transformation if you read this book. So it's like all of those things are truisms. And yet I still feel doubt. And I don't know, I just feel like it's important to voice these things publicly sometimes, because I feel like a lot of us go through this. Even when on the outside looking in, it feels like we know what we're doing.
- [13:09]
Justin Moore
I think it's normal. I was listening to a conversation that.
- [13:13]
Jay Clouse
James Clear had on Ryan Holiday's podcast.
- [13:14]
Justin Moore
This last weekend, which is like. It's like my Super Bowl.
- [13:17]
Jay Clouse
James Clear and Ryan Holiday talking to each other.
- [13:20]
Justin Moore
This is incredible. And James, I know because he also lives here in Columbus. He has a couple of young children now. And so he's talked about what that's done to his time, availability Anyway, for the last couple of years he's had this mantra, he said, of fewer moves, boulder strokes. And so you're taking a couple of big moves here. And I think the risk is not just really leaning into them.
- [13:45]
Jay Clouse
The wheels are in motion.
- [13:46]
Justin Moore
You're doing them now. You just gotta do em like 2:11.
- [13:52]
April Moore
I think you will, yeah, 100%. I am fully, fully committed to the book shtick right now. I am not just through launch. I have no problem. I don't anticipate ever getting tired about talking about the book. I mean, that's the major casualty that I've heard. Our good friend Matt from LULU has shared a lot of anecdotes that authors just kind of give up talking about their book because they're so done with it after the process of how many years writing it. And so they're just like, well, I put this into the universe now and whatever happens, happens. And I'm not going to be a casualty of that. I'm doing whatever the hell I can possibly do for the next several years. This is going to be the main thing that I talk about. I know 100% that the vast, vast majority of the people who I'm going to come across won't know that I have a book and won't know that that's a way in which they can learn from me. So yeah, man, I'm definitely stretching out the time horizon way far in terms of how loud and annoying I am going to be about this for a while.
- [14:50]
Justin Moore
What I don't think I realized until you sent me the early version to read through is I hadn't realized that this is also a reference book. Most books, they're like, you read it, you get the big idea, hopefully it changes you and you move forward and people will do that with this book. But also, there are so many very specific, not just frameworks, but literally scripts and templates in this book that a creator can have this on their desk, open it up and be like, I know there's a script in here for talking about how to deal with a sponsor, asking about doing affiliates. I'm going to go to that page, I'm going to learn from it.
- [15:30]
Jay Clouse
I'm going to bring that into my own thing.
- [15:32]
Justin Moore
Like it's, I can just see this on people's desk.
- [15:34]
Jay Clouse
So much so that literally before we.
- [15:35]
Justin Moore
Got on the call, I just bought 100 copies. I'm gonna give them away to people on the podcast.
- [15:40]
April Moore
No, you didn't.
- [15:41]
Jay Clouse
I did.
- [15:42]
April Moore
Are you kidding me?
- [15:43]
Jay Clouse
I'm not kidding you.
- [15:44]
April Moore
What Bro.
- [15:49]
Justin Moore
I'm gonna give them away to listeners.
- [15:51]
Jay Clouse
There's gonna be a link in the.
- [15:52]
Justin Moore
Show notes for people to.
- [15:55]
April Moore
Dude, you did not just do that.
- [15:57]
Justin Moore
I did.
- [15:59]
April Moore
Dude. I put that. I put that on there as like the yolo, like comedy option and I outload. Dude, thank you so much. Are you kidding me right now? I'm in shock.
- [16:11]
Jay Clouse
Not a favor.
- [16:12]
Justin Moore
It's gonna be so helpful.
- [16:14]
Jay Clouse
And for people listening to the show.
- [16:17]
Justin Moore
If they're listening early, they can be one of the first 100 people who.
- [16:20]
Jay Clouse
Get this book for free. Just go to the link in the.
- [16:22]
Justin Moore
Show notes and I think this is.
- [16:24]
Jay Clouse
A book that should sit on your.
- [16:25]
Justin Moore
Desk so you can reference it as you're going about your work.
- [16:30]
April Moore
Thanks, Toot. Man, that means so much to me, man. Sorry.
- [16:40]
Justin Moore
It's a really good book and it's gonna serve and help so many people. So obviously gonna do whatever I can to help you with it. But also, like I said, not totally a favor. This is a book that people need next to them.
- [16:55]
April Moore
Dude, this is good thing it's not a video podcast today. Thank you, dude. That really means a lot to me, man. You're such a great friend and you've always been such a huge advocate for me, man, and that really, really means a lot to me.
- [17:08]
Justin Moore
Yeah, I think this is going to be such a good addition to your speaking part of your business too. Not just because it's going to get you more speaking gigs, but this is something that I talked to Tory Dunlap on the show and that was a fantastic episode, her most recent episode. And there were two book launch strategies she shared that I just filed away in the back of my mind for when I write a book, I'm definitely going to do these things. One of them was bulk orders for speaking, which I saw on your speaking page. You make that option available. But I really think that's going to be big for you because you're such an incredible speaker. And if you say I'll come speak, here's the fee. If you bulk order some of these books for your attendees. I just think it's a slam dunk for so many of these conferences.
- [17:55]
April Moore
I've actually been in negotiations with some sizable creator focused conferences about this very topic. Haven't got any to agree to it yet, but like, that's definitely been, you know, I've got this aspiration to get the book in 10,000 creators hands in the next four months. So that's my short term goal. And then 100,000 creators hands in the next five years. And so those are big, big goals. And like, you know, to your point, like, those types of bulk order type things are really what I feel like I need to be focused on. And again, like, it's not. I don't necessarily care if I sell a hundred thousand books. Like, I just want to get this into people's hands because I do think it's going to help so many people, like, just to get a bit in the weeds of like your point around it being like a reference book that people have on their, on their desk. Like, this was an intentional decision that I made to include certain things in the book for that very reason. So what led me to this is like, before I started writing the book, I read Write Useful Books by Rob Fitzpatrick. I joined his author community, which was instrumental in helping understand kind of structurally how I wanted to organize the book. And I very much wanted to make it kind of a reference manual for that very reason. But the exercise that he encouraged prospective authors to do was go through this reader Persona exercise where I literally mapped out what are the interactions that people have, where the book could get recommended, what questions could people be asking or what problems are people having, where the person listening to this person complain or like saying, I'm having an issue. Where would the natural response be? You're having that issue. You should read Sponsor Magnet and deciding, like, how to title it, what that subtitle should be. What types of things should you talk about in the book? All around those moments of word of mouth. That was literally from the very beginning. That's how I designed it. And so to your point, adding these scripts of like, hey, the brand says join our affiliate program. What should you say in response to that? I actually didn't have that in the initial draft of the book because I was like, ah, that's like, people love that. Like, maybe they'll want to join the course to get those scripts or this type of thing. And I was just like, no, like, this is exactly why I should have this in here. Because the moment someone talks about that gripe with their friend, that's where the book would get recommended. And totally, there's so many. Like, John has mentioned this and Tim Grohl has mentioned this that, like, it's very, very hard to sell a hundred thousand books. It's possible to sell 10,000 through grit, but the chasm to get from 10,000 to a hundred thousand has to come from word of mouth. And that comes from writing an amazing book. But also, you can be intentional about the word of mouth factor after a quick break.
- [20:38]
Justin Moore
Justin and I talk about some of the hidden benefits of self publishing and.
- [20:41]
Jay Clouse
How it feeds the greater parts of his business. So stick around.
- [20:44]
Justin Moore
We'll be right back.
- [20:49]
Jay Clouse
Hey, it's Jay. And whether you enjoyed episode number 71 with Steph Smith, an indie creator who formerly led trends at the Hustle, or you simply like to keep up with the future, you should check out the A16Z podcast hosted by Steph. The chart topping show from Andreessen Horowitz features some of the world's most influential people movers who have a track record of being both early and right, like Apple co founder Steve Wozniak or co founders Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz themselves. Not to mention folks you don't typically get to hear from from the very first cto of the CIA or the chief security officers behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and DeepMind. These guests tackle the most important trends in technology and business, from space to supply chains and beyond. If you want to understand the science and supply of GLP1s, they recently broke this down. If you're curious about the 3 billion record Social Security breach, they've got you covered. And if you're wondering if autonomous vehicles are still miles away, listen in to find out. So go ahead, eavesdrop on the future by following the a16z podcast wherever you.
- [21:53]
Justin Moore
Get podcasts if you know me, you.
- [21:55]
Jay Clouse
Know I'm obsessed with branding. A clear, unique brand is such a differentiator in an attention economy that's getting more competitive all the time. Your brand is in everything you do, including your domain name. But when creators start selling products, they often get stuck behind some long, awkward URL like courses.creatorscience.com it's hard to say, hard to remember, and ultimately it weakens your brand. And that's where store domains come into play. A.com domain can be anything but when you hear DudePerfect store, you know it's a store. I picked up my own store domain, creatorscience Store, so I can quickly tell people where they can buy some of my most popular products. It's my name, my brand store. And I'm not alone. Store domains are used by more than 1.5 million sellers, including top creators like Mr. Beast, Colin and Samir and Zach King. It does not get more direct than your brand store. And it doesn't just sound cool, it.
- [22:50]
Justin Moore
Actually helps you sell more.
- [22:52]
Jay Clouse
Here's the best part. Store Domains has a special offer for creator Science listeners to secure your branded store domain for just 99 cents for the first year, just visit Creators Store J and use coupon code Jay at checkout. That's Creators Store J a Y and use coupon code Jay again, J a Y to secure your very own store branded URL.
- [23:18]
Justin Moore
And now back to my conversation with.
- [23:19]
Jay Clouse
My friend Justin Moore.
- [23:22]
Justin Moore
I love that you've self published this because it opens up a lot of really interesting doors. I'd love to hear if how much you've thought about these and how much do you think about exploring them. One, you have these launch bonuses that you have a QR code in the front of the book that people can scan and get. You can update that page anytime.
- [23:38]
Jay Clouse
And any author could do this if.
- [23:39]
Justin Moore
You have like a URL or a QR code. So that's one thing. Like, you could be adding value to this book over time. And because you're self publishing, you know exactly who purchases because they're purchasing through your website. So anytime you update this, you could actually push a notification to book purchasers. We just added a new script to the bonuses or something. But also you could literally update the book if you wanted to for future purchasers. How much do you think you would pull that lever in the future?
- [24:09]
April Moore
A ton. This is one of the primary reasons I decided to self publish. I partnered with Tilt Publishing for this, actually, so they've been instrumental in kind of helping bring it to life after I finish the manuscript. So I absolutely want to give them a shout out. And they designed a killer cover. Like, you know, I'm so, so thrilled. Their team of designers, like, way surpassed what I could have done on my own. So I'm super glad I did that. But thinking about, again, the economic engine behind my business is very much, you know, I'm not looking to make money on the book sales. It'll be a nice kind of incremental revenue stream, but I'm not looking to make money on that. It's really the coaching program is what I hope to grow. I think that will become my main offer. Right now it represents about 30% of my revenue and I want it to be 80 or 90% in the next year or two. And so that's going to require some very intentional decisions. A de emphasis on the course, an emphasis on the coaching, and I'm betting that the book will be a major catalyst for that. And so being able to do simple things like the moment someone buys the book, have an upsell page where it's like, hey, do you want to join our coaching program? Like, the book is a great primer, but if you need Ongoing support from us. Like, we have this program here. So, like a very intense. And like, that's not something that is as easy to do when you're traditionally published. And to your point about speaking, like, I absolutely agree with you and I'm excited to do speaking, but I'm also. I also don't want to be a career speaker. I don't want to.
- [25:34]
Justin Moore
I was going to ask you about that.
- [25:35]
April Moore
Yeah, I don't want to be. I'm very. I hate. I do not like being away from my family. I've gotten up to a point in my life where I just don't like being away from them. I went to Boise to film with Nathan Barry on his podcast, like two weeks ago and I was, I was away for one night and I was like, like, I don't like this. You know, I just like anytime I can bring my wife and my kids, like, or my family, it's tough though, because they're in school. You know, it's not like we're digital nomads and we could just like, yeah, travel all over and do the speaking thing. And again, no shade to anyone who's like, built a business off of speaking. I think that's awesome. It's just not the lifestyle I want or envision myself having. So maybe there's going to be a couple key strategic events that I continue to go to, like Vidsummit and Craft of Commerce and all that. But really selfishly, I'm kind of hoping that it could just be my event and everyone comes to me and then I could just do once a year and then I don't have to do anything else. So I don't know, man. That's just where my head is at right now.
- [26:26]
Justin Moore
Okay, let's talk about this. So sponsor games. You're doing it in March. I will be there.
- [26:31]
April Moore
Let's go.
- [26:31]
Justin Moore
Didn't include it in my recent email. And I feel so awful about this still.
- [26:37]
April Moore
Dude, it does not. No, it doesn't matter. It's up to you.
- [26:41]
Justin Moore
It does matter.
- [26:42]
Jay Clouse
It does matter.
- [26:44]
Justin Moore
But it's coming up in March. Talk to me about how you're thinking.
- [26:46]
Jay Clouse
About that event as an entity inside the business. What is the time horizon you're thinking.
- [26:50]
Justin Moore
About that event on?
- [26:52]
April Moore
I am fully prepared to probably lose money on the first year. I'm very much looking at it as a brand building exercise. You know, if I'm looking at all the ways in which I could potentially serve or educate people. I've got videos, I've got audio, I've Got written stuff. And the final, I think ultimate piece of this is like in person, experience in person. Education and teaching sponsorships are the number one revenue stream for so many creators and influencers and businesses. And there's no event focused around that. That has never made sense to me. And all the years, decade plus of going to creator focused conferences, there's always like one panel or like two panels or something on the monetization track. But like it does not make sense to me. And so I was like, this event has to exist and I feel like I should be the person to have it because I don't have a dog in this race and I'm the supreme advocate for creators. And so in terms of the role that it plays in the business, I don't know, dude, I just think this event should exist. And getting a bunch of people in one room who also believe that it should exist, I just feel like getting those people in a room, good things are going to happen and I don't know. That's a thesis. Again, all this stuff is theses. And so other than like I feel like it should exist, I don't, I don't know. Again, going back to the coaching program, it's going to be a great opportunity. Like I don't want it to be a gross event where you go there and it's like the entire thing is like a sales pitch leading up to the last thing where it's like join the coaching program. And you know, and because I don't want that. I've been to events like that and it felt gross but like I am going to find a way for it to feel good and a natural conversation that like, hey, if you found value in the last couple days of like doing this role playing, you know, and, or doing this pitch practice and doing these things. Here's like an amazing offer to like work with us for the next year to like help you with your business. So I'm gonna find a way to do it. So figuring this out as I'm going.
- [28:44]
Justin Moore
I guess at this moment, three months out, what is the likelihood that you'll do year two of this event?
- [28:51]
April Moore
I mean 99% in my mind. Okay, why am I not saying a hundred percent? I don't want to take a bath. I don't want to lose like a hundred, I'm not going to lose that a bunch of money because have some sponsors locked in. We've already sold, you know, quite a few tickets, so I think pretty close to 100% just because again, I'm like Trying to, like you said, I'm trying to stretch the time horizon out. I've spoken with people who have started events. Year one is always. That's the establishment year, that's the brand building year. Year two is when you have the hype video from the first year to like get people to see, oh, this is like a real thing. There's like people here that went that last year and all that. And so year two is when I've spoken. I've hired a lot of event consultants who have done this, who have said these things. So I am steeling myself for understanding that this is like a. I could even see this being something that. Where there's like multiple events a year, regional events, you know, where there's like the west coast chapter, the east coast chapter, you know, this event needs to exist, dude.
- [29:49]
Justin Moore
Like, I agree.
- [29:50]
April Moore
So yeah, I think it's going to do well. I think it's going to be useful.
- [29:52]
Justin Moore
I'm interested in the business model of events as a thing. My assumption is that this is like inside the creator wizard business.
- [30:01]
April Moore
Yeah.
- [30:01]
Justin Moore
But there's also a case to be made of like own entity entirely.
- [30:06]
April Moore
Yeah.
- [30:06]
Justin Moore
What have you heard from these people you're learning from?
- [30:09]
April Moore
Yeah, I mean, you look at vidcon in the case of like Hank and John Green, that was an entity that was. They were not running a business around creator education or anything like that. It was like a experiential entertainment kind of based networking event that again, they created completely separate from their own personal brands on YouTube, Vlogbrothers, et cetera. And they ultimately sold that.
- [30:32]
Jay Clouse
Right.
- [30:33]
April Moore
And so that became an asset that you ultimately sold. I don't think I'm looking at it in that way, at least right now. I do agree that it could become an entity that had its own legs. That could be a saleable asset for sure. But at least right now I'm looking at the experiential stuff as just another touch point for us to educate people. Yeah, I'm still looking at this as like a. I want this to be my life's work and I don't have an exit strategy, you know, I don't have like, oh, the five, ten year plan where I sell the conference and right off into the sunset, like I see myself doing this for the rest of my life.
- [31:06]
Jay Clouse
This being everything, not just the event.
- [31:07]
April Moore
Yeah, this being everything. Just like educating creators around, this around sponsorships. And so I still look at it under the personal brand umbrella and maybe that changes one day and maybe it doesn't.
- [31:16]
Jay Clouse
Yeah. Super interesting man.
- [31:17]
Justin Moore
Thanks for being so open to share all this stuff. I think education is going to change a lot in the coming years and I think you're positioning yourself well for it. Like, AI is getting so good and will be so good that if you know how to use it or if companies create better interfaces for more lay people to deal with it. I think education becomes hyper personalized to the individual and like information will be.
- [31:45]
Jay Clouse
Free, learning will be free.
- [31:48]
Justin Moore
So where does the value from people like you and I come from? And I do think it's still the inherently scarce asset of Justin's time and.
- [31:58]
Jay Clouse
Attention, Justin's lived experience.
- [32:00]
Justin Moore
I think it's the scarce asset of.
- [32:04]
Jay Clouse
Human interaction in communities, online offline events.
- [32:09]
Justin Moore
So you're moving in a good direction. Like I just think education businesses as a whole will be disrupted over the.
- [32:16]
Jay Clouse
Next five to ten years anyway.
- [32:17]
Justin Moore
So like, why not disrupt yourself?
- [32:21]
April Moore
How are you? I mean, I know you're, you're putting together your first in person event. How are you feeling? Is that where your mindset is also?
- [32:27]
Justin Moore
A little bit. I mean, I come at events more.
- [32:30]
Jay Clouse
From the community side of things.
- [32:32]
Justin Moore
We're gonna have two days for members of the lab in June before craft and commerce. That's like a very small swing of the bat at what you're doing, right? Because it's just four members on the standard and VIP tiers. I'm projecting we'll have like 40 to 50 people, you know, so like the moving parts are smaller, the level of investment is smaller. And I look at that not as a money maker, but as like a core benefit to being a member of the community. There will be like attendance fee, so we can basically split the cost for some of the fixed things. But I want to make it as accessible as possible to as many members as possible. And I think that's going to be the go forward plan.
- [33:14]
Jay Clouse
I think there is a world where.
- [33:15]
Justin Moore
I did a larger event for the.
- [33:19]
Jay Clouse
Broader creator science audience.
- [33:20]
Justin Moore
But I think if I did go down that path, that would be with the assumption of building something of its own enterprise value.
- [33:28]
Jay Clouse
And I don't know that I'm committing.
- [33:30]
Justin Moore
To that just yet. I think where I have more conviction is just community as the core of my business model and how I create community might expand. Over the last couple months, I've really.
- [33:43]
Jay Clouse
Beefed up the basic tier of membership.
- [33:44]
Justin Moore
In the lab and it's been really cool to see how people lean in and support each other.
- [33:50]
Jay Clouse
There's way less of me in there.
- [33:51]
Justin Moore
But there are community spaces now and it's been really cool to see how people are interacting in there and I want to get them involved in in person experiences. I think the future is bright for community and human interaction. I think education will be disrupted in.
- [34:09]
Jay Clouse
Ways that we can't yet imagine. Could be AI, probably will be AI.
- [34:13]
Justin Moore
But could also be like AR and VR. When do educational experiences shift from me looking at a computer screen to me.
- [34:22]
Jay Clouse
Wearing my meta Ray Bans or whatever.
- [34:24]
Justin Moore
And showing up in a classroom with you in Minnesota, learning from somebody. But we're like, it's like we're sitting next to each other, you know, I.
- [34:31]
Jay Clouse
Think that's the future of like cohort.
- [34:32]
Justin Moore
Based stuff, but I don't even know.
- [34:35]
Jay Clouse
How to begin developing that type of experience right now. But I think it will happen. After one last break, Justin grills me on why I haven't written my book yet.
- [34:44]
Justin Moore
We also get into the struggle between.
- [34:46]
Jay Clouse
Investing in new opportunities and doubling down on what works. So don't go anywhere.
- [34:51]
Justin Moore
We'll be right back.
- [34:55]
Jay Clouse
I am once again inviting you to join our membership for professional creators, the Lab. Of course I am biased, but Andrew is not. Andrew has been a member for about two years now and this was a testimonial he sent me unprompted.
- [35:07]
Justin Moore
Joining the Lab has been the single best investment I have made in my business and in myself since I started doing this going solo 17 years ago.
- [35:15]
Jay Clouse
If you benefit from the conversations here on the podcast, you'd love the things.
- [35:18]
Justin Moore
We talk about in the Lab.
- [35:20]
Jay Clouse
In fact, some of the past guests of this show are members themselves. The Lab helps you keep a finger on the pulse of what's working and what's changing for creators right now. I could tell you about all the things that are included, like all of my courses, including Build a Beloved Membership podcasts like a YouTuber, the newsletter masterclass. You get a complimentary copy of Creator hq, our operating system built in notion. But the best thing is the people incredibly generous, incredibly kind, incredibly smart and accomplished people are in the Lab. I could go on and on about this, but just know there is nothing more important to me than continuing to make the Lab the absolute best community for professionals creators. You can join the basic tier now, which is an absolute bargain, or you can apply to join our standard or VIP tiers. Just visit creatorscience.comlab to learn more and get started. That's creatorscience.comlab. it's in the show Notes. I hope to see you there. And now please enjoy the rest of.
- [36:14]
Justin Moore
My conversation with Justin Moore.
- [36:17]
April Moore
Is your Kind of existential view. Maybe not existential, but like is this one of the reasons why you've struggled with whether you want to write a book? Like you're just cause you feel like education is going to be disrupted and.
- [36:28]
Justin Moore
Oh no, I think if there is a form of information transfer that has.
- [36:32]
Jay Clouse
Proven it stands the test of time.
- [36:35]
Justin Moore
I think it is books. You know, I think books will outlive blogs or newsletters, the essays that I'm writing. If I do want to share like a deeper message, it would be a book.
- [36:46]
Jay Clouse
The only thing that gives me pause.
- [36:48]
Justin Moore
Is it would be really easy to write a creator specific book that just is not relevant very soon. I think you're in a great niche where that will not be true because I think that brands will continue to want to work with creators. But if I wrote a book on like here's how to grow your email list, that's out the window, you know, next year. And I just look at books as, I mean maybe you can speak to this and tell me if I'm wrong. I look at books as like the highest opportunity cost project I could take on right now. Like it would be so consuming of time that I have to have really high conviction around it.
- [37:25]
April Moore
I think that that's true. I also do think though again all a thesis that to your point, given the unpredictability of what's going to happen in the next five to 10 years and given the baseline stability that your business has right now, it would not be wise to not do it.
- [37:47]
Justin Moore
That's my opinion, to not write a book.
- [37:49]
April Moore
I think you should because you're in a privileged position, I think, to take a larger swing because you have some stability in your business. Obviously you can't take your eye completely off the ball in terms of your community and your core engine of your business. But like, I don't know, dude, you're such a deep thinker. I read a lot of the articles that you publish and newsletters and things like that and you have unique thoughts. You have thoughts that are interesting. You have thoughts that are not just like the trite hacks and tips that you see on the Internet. They're deeper. And so there's something there for you. Whether it's this around trust building or whether it's around, you know, relationship building or. I don't know what the book is about, but I just feel like there's a book in you and I think you should take it seriously.
- [38:40]
Jay Clouse
I agree with that. I agree with that.
- [38:42]
Justin Moore
Being that there is a book in me I appreciate the compliment. The question is, like, the unique thoughts, are they fairly evergreen, if not timeless? You know? So when I think about writing a book, the question is, what is that book? And how do I make that stand the test of time?
- [39:01]
Jay Clouse
Many, many years at least, but hopefully.
- [39:04]
Justin Moore
Something that's perennial and is it about creators at all? Tbd.
- [39:11]
April Moore
So I think I know the book you should write. Okay, here's the playbook that I think you should run for the next two years. I think that you should take very seriously running, launching that signature product cohort, because that is your superpower. In my opinion, your superpower is helping people identify what they should be selling, depending on the influence that they've grown and their expertise. You run that cohort a couple times, you get some amazing transformations and insights. Combine that with all the insights from all the hundreds of interviews you've done over the years, and the book is around figuring out what is the unique thing that you should be selling that is your wedge. I don't know if that's an interesting book to you, but I feel like I would just devour a book from you on that subject.
- [39:57]
Justin Moore
I think about this a lot. I do think about this specifically a lot, because it also. What wasn't obvious to me until recently is before I was doing the creator stuff, I was building software products. I was literally head of product for a software company. And before that, I built a startup where I led the product there, too. So there's deep product within me. I have this coach. We don't work together super closely anymore, but we still catch up now as friends quite a bit. And he just built this incredible assessment tool that identifies some of your blind spots and weak spots. And his thesis is, a lot of times our deepest problems or insecurities are also some of our superpowers. And I did this quiz, and he showed it to me, and it was like this fear of. Basically a fear of not being good enough or being replaceable. And so one of my superpowers is identifying ways to not be replaceable. And I can do that by helping other people find products that are unique to them as well.
- [41:04]
Jay Clouse
I think there is something there, and.
- [41:05]
Justin Moore
I think that is really interesting where.
- [41:08]
Jay Clouse
I get hung up now.
- [41:10]
Justin Moore
It's kind of this fewer moves, bolder.
- [41:12]
Jay Clouse
Strokes idea with less time in the day.
- [41:14]
Justin Moore
The highest leverage choices are where I put that time. And so I just want to have.
- [41:20]
Jay Clouse
Such high conviction around something.
- [41:22]
Justin Moore
And every time I think about, like, okay, I should do the signature product cohort or course or whatever, I look at the numbers of my business. And it's like the lab is such a huge part of the business's overall revenue.
- [41:35]
Jay Clouse
Shouldn't I just be compounding that value?
- [41:38]
Justin Moore
That's where I get stuck.
- [41:40]
April Moore
Yeah. But again, I keep going back to something that I talk about in Sponsor Magnet is the explore, exploit, trade off. This psychological phenomenon, it's found in nature. And so many aspects of our personal and professional life where if you look at honeybees, for example, you've got the hive, you've got the queen bee, you've got the worker bees, you've got the scouts. So the scout's job is to basically go out there and forage and bring, you know, material back to the hive. And so when they do this foraging, 80% of the scouts go off and they go to the same spot that they had identified, but 20% of them go off and explore, they explore other locations and surprise, surprise, what do you think happens? They ultimately find new locations that are even richer in resources than the current location that the others are exploiting. Because what happens when you exploit a resource? It ultimately goes to zero, it gets depleted. Right. And so you always having your vision to like, you know, exploring other aspects of things that could continue to ensure the survival of the business or not just survive, but thrive is absolutely critical. So yes, everything is going really well right now at the lab. And of course that's great, you don't need to ignore it, but you absolutely have to be allocating a percentage of your time on efforts that will propel the business forward over the next five to 10 years. So writing the book in my mind is a super high leverage activity. Yes, you're right, huge opportunity costs. But for someone in your position, someone with your audience, someone with high conviction on certain beliefs because you have a lot of spiky beliefs on like certain things, man, again, that was the decision I made. I was like the book. You're telling me that I have to carve out two hours out of my day for the next year. That's a huge amount of time for same. I have a similar business to you, you know, community courses, et cetera. That's a huge amount of time for me. I could be making videos, short form content, you know, whatever. But it was, it was a bet that I was willing to make because of this belief that I had that like, I really believe that this book should exist. And again, I get it. Maybe you don't have the idea or I know I want to write a book about this thing, I get it. But you should really get there, in my opinion, to figure out what it is. Because in my mind, a book would be a huge, huge propellant for you.
- [43:55]
Justin Moore
What about instead of doing that hard.
- [43:56]
Jay Clouse
Thing that I know I should do.
- [43:58]
Justin Moore
What if I build an entirely new basement studio and hide from this, doing that instead?
- [44:04]
April Moore
I don't think that. Okay, yes, that. Also, I understand the temptation. I mean, let's be real. Like, you know, a new studio is good, pretty awesome, gives you legitimacy. You know, there's value there. I'm just gonna say, like, again, I know you're a new dad, but, like, I moved across the country, I taught my last cohort all in the same time. I finished up my book. I'm preparing the conference. Like, I have kids. We do a lot of activities. I'm stressed the heck out. I'm sure you are, too. I don't know. I just think that burning the candle at both ends or kind of burning the midnight oil for a short duration for a sprint, yield dividends down the line.
- [44:44]
Jay Clouse
Yeah, I agree. I agree. A book will exist.
- [44:48]
Justin Moore
Highest leverage. Part of writing a book, I think, is the idea. And so, yeah, gotta solve for that. If it was a signature product book, I have ideas, I have beliefs. I've worked with a lot of folks in the lab on this through the.
- [45:04]
Jay Clouse
Work that happens in there.
- [45:05]
Justin Moore
It's not a streamlined process in there, but a lot of the questions that.
- [45:09]
Jay Clouse
Come up, like, inherently, these are questions.
- [45:11]
Justin Moore
About developing a signature product. So I have a lot of this.
- [45:14]
Jay Clouse
Around it, but I do think I.
- [45:15]
Justin Moore
Would want to run probably a live cohort around it. And then when I think about that, I think, but shouldn't I just do it as a sprint in the lab and make that membership more valuable? Do I really need to make money from the live cohort? Then, hey, maybe do both. Maybe run it live, have it be available to the audience as a whole. Give members of the lab free access to it. I think that would be the next step for this project should I take it on, which I think I want to. I want to do a live learning experience early in 2025. And I've been oscillating back and forth between doing the signature product cohort or basically taking my best course, build a beloved membership and making a live experience around that once or twice. But that's more of a revenue play, and signature product would be more of a expansion play.
- [46:07]
April Moore
If you're listening to this episode or right after you read this newsletter, can you hit reply and tell Jay what book you think he should write or dm him your thoughts on this, because I think he needs to hear it.
- [46:19]
Justin Moore
I would love that. All right, this is our typical Jay and Justin therapy session, which I really enjoyed. We have, like, 10 minutes left. What ground should we cover from here?
- [46:30]
April Moore
Oh, man.
- [46:33]
Justin Moore
Is your pause that you don't have anything to cover and we should not talk about it, or because you have something but you're afraid to say it?
- [46:38]
April Moore
Yeah, it's the latter. Okay, I'll say it. I'm in a really weird place right now because my dynamic with my wife April, has shifted for the first time in, like, 12 years. 12 or 13 years. Those of you guys who know our story, like, you know, she started on YouTube in 2009, and so she grew her business, and that was how I know all this stuff around sponsorships is because of her and the business that she built. And so we ran that business for many years together, doing it full time, and sponsorships was, like, our primary revenue stream, but, like, it was all on her. She was kind of the talent. Yeah, we worked together, but, like, brands really wanted to work with her, and that was an immense amount of pressure. Being a new mom, being the breadwinner, kind of trying to juggle all that. And of course, it's a privileged position, but at the same time, that was not the life that we thought we were going to have. When we first got together, we discussed a lot that we wanted more of a traditional relationship, gender role type thing, and no judgment on anyone, but that was what we wanted. And she was a preschool teacher when we met, and I was in medical devices, and that was just kind of what we thought our life was going to be. So for her to grow this really surprising business was difficult on both of us because I struggled a long time with not being the provider for my family, because I took a lot of pride in that as a man. And we developed a wonderful dynamic over the years to really make it work for us. But it's just in the last year or two where the rules have switched back again, where I'm able to say to her, you can slow down now. You don't have to be at this breakneck speed, pumping out content on the Internet like you have been for the last 15 years. You don't have to do that anymore. And that has been, on one hand, so satisfying and fulfilling, but on the other hand, super stressful, because I'm, like, terrified of this business not working out and us reverting back to that last state. And so all of these, like, big swings that we've been talking about throughout this podcast are like made so much heavier by the fact that, like, am I jeopardizing this thing that I finally achieved in my own family? You know, like, if it doesn't work out, what's gonna happen? You know, so that I think about that a lot. That's what I think about when I'm laying in bed at night.
- [49:12]
Justin Moore
I feel you. But from the outside, I just can't.
- [49:15]
Jay Clouse
Imagine that being the case.
- [49:16]
Justin Moore
I mean, even in a worst case scenario of like the event not going as well as you want, like that's a contained cost and experiment, the book at this point is pretty much done like it's happening, it's going to be out there. It will continue to be an asset that you can leverage year on year on year. I mean, I think again, from the outside, it seems like you have pretty high conviction on the Wizards Guild model. And I think it's a brilliant model of working with people on sponsorships. So I just don't see how that goes away in any scenario.
- [49:52]
April Moore
Yeah, yes, I do have high conviction. You are right. I think it's going to be great.
- [49:59]
Jay Clouse
Actually.
- [49:59]
April Moore
I want to get your take on a new service that we're launching that will be very much aligned with the coaching, which again, is giving me like some optimism around the. More optimism around this stuff. So we actually just sold our first client on a new pitching service that we're creating. You know, I can speak till I'm blue in the face about why it's so important to do outbound pitching. Even if you have inbound opportunities where brands are reaching out to you. This is the big trap that a lot of people fall into is they get comfy, like, deal flows great and then it dries up and they're screwed. And you know, what is 30, 40% of their revenue is like now not there? Because they didn't fill their pipeline up. They were just relying on inbound stuff. Right. And so I talk about this constantly, right, about the importance of pitching, but just people don't do it. They don't make time for it. They're busy. I get it. And I've been so nervous to create any sort of, you know, because I have this line in the sand. I will never take a cut of your deals. That's fundamentally, I'm against that. And you know, our services are fee only, so it's a flat fee every month. You keep all the upside. And so I just kept hearing this over and over and over. This issue that people had with, like, I just I don't know what it is, but I can't get myself to like pitch consistently. I just, I don't know, it feels like this big lift. And so I just had this spark of this idea where I was like, what if we literally send you five pitches a week ready to hit send, you copy paste it. Here's the subject line, here's the body. We've done the research, we know your business, we've done research on the brand of what we think the best pitching angle is. Here's their LinkedIn, here's their email address. You have no excuse. Hit send. And yes, we just signed our first person. We're going to do a trial in January. So see stuff like this. The ROI is so obvious to me and I have super high conviction that it's gonna be useful for people. I say this because the book, I just don't. There's not the same kind of ROI that I feel huge conviction around where it's like, I don't know, man, I'm just.
- [51:57]
Jay Clouse
Because we're math machines, humans are just math machines.
- [52:00]
Justin Moore
It's always easier to calculate what is at stake to lose because you already have it. Like we're math machines and we're also loss aversion creatures. So it's like really easy for us to quantify. Like here's the amount I've invested in this or here's what it would mean if this cannibalized this revenue that's coming.
- [52:20]
Jay Clouse
In from over here. But we have no way to conceptualize.
- [52:24]
Justin Moore
Possibility, let alone calculate it. So like our brains always skew towards the negative because the math equation is just one sided. But that's a clear ROI to you. It's also a clear ROI to a customer, which is what I think is so brilliant about your business as a whole. It's just so clear to see how investing with you with Creator wizard can have an outsized return on that investment super easily. I think that's a great idea. There's so many future versions of that that even become lower friction and more automated. I think it's a really cool idea.
- [53:00]
April Moore
Yes, I have definitely pulled that string actually on that front as well to figure out how to make this be more scalable because it would be very manually time intensive for sure in the beginning.
- [53:12]
Justin Moore
What happened to the software you showed me like a month ago?
- [53:15]
April Moore
So I'm gonna start running paid ads to that.
- [53:18]
Justin Moore
You absolutely should.
- [53:19]
April Moore
I think I'm going to. So what Jay is talking about is I created an audit tool that is amazing. Basically you Punch in your social media URL, you know, YouTube, Instagram or TikTok for now. That's the first three platforms we've done it on and it gives you a customized personalized report, like an audit on how you can attract more sponsors. A lot of really low hanging fruit. The stuff I talk about in the book also is just like, you know, something stupid like putting your email address in your Instagram bio in plain text. That makes it easy for brands, an agency, let's say, to copy and paste that email to contact you. A lot of people don't think about stuff like this, right, where they don't have access to their, the brand's Instagram, they can't DM you from the brand's handle. We're able to basically like assess, take a screenshot kind of of what your profile looks like and do some pretty deep analysis. Not just, not just bio related, but stuff related to your content too. So people have been pretty surprised at how effective the advice is. And so this is actually something I talked about with Nathan too, is that he thinks that the audit tool should be our primary. Like that should be the thing we're going out with. Run ads to it. Like if it's really that good, that's very, very useful. And then you can get pretty sophisticated on the back end. You know, depending on people's scores or depending on people's assessments, you give them different advice like, hey, you know, you seem like a great candidate for the coaching or hey, seems like you should read the book or you should whatever. So yeah, I think that that's gonna be pretty dope if you wanna take it. By the way, sponsormagnet.com audit I think.
- [54:46]
Justin Moore
It'S a brilliant lead gen form and I just hope that you put ConvertKit Creator Network recommendations on top of it.
- [54:55]
April Moore
Ooh, yes, yes, that is a great idea.
- [55:03]
Justin Moore
Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate you coming on and.
- [55:06]
Jay Clouse
Being real and being vulnerable.
- [55:07]
Justin Moore
I'm excited for the book launch and Justin, we'll talk to you soon.
- [55:11]
April Moore
Dude, thank you again man for being such a great friend and I appreciate you more than you know.
- [55:23]
Justin Moore
If you want one of our free.
- [55:24]
Jay Clouse
Copies of Sponsor magnet, then visit creatorscience.com magnet that's creatorscience.com magnet or if you.
- [55:32]
Justin Moore
Want to buy it directly from Justin.
- [55:33]
Jay Clouse
Just visit sponsormagnet.com links to both are in the show.
- [55:37]
Justin Moore
Notes. Notes. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider.
- [55:39]
Jay Clouse
Leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and letting me know I read them all.
- [55:43]
Justin Moore
It goes a long way.
- [55:45]
Jay Clouse
Please consider doing it, if you haven't already. Otherwise, thank you for listening and I'll.
- [55:49]
Justin Moore
Talk to you next week.