Creator Science Episode #253: Mark Schust – Will AI Kill Our Course Businesses?

Release Date: April 30, 2025
Host: Jay Clouse
Guest: Mark Schust

Introduction

In Episode #253 of Creator Science, host Jay Clouse engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Mark Schust, a seasoned course creator and early adopter of artificial intelligence (AI) in the educational space. The episode delves into the evolving landscape of AI and its potential ramifications on online course businesses. Together, they explore strategies for creators to adapt, leverage AI effectively, and ensure the sustainability of their educational ventures.

Early Engagement with AI

Jay Clouse opens the discussion by highlighting Mark Schust’s pioneering role in integrating AI into his course platforms, noting that Mark started experimenting with AI tools two years earlier than many in their community.

Mark Schust shares his early experiences:

“[00:00] ... The more I use AI, the more I'm faced with the question, is AI going to destroy my business?”

He recounts his initial interactions with AI models, beginning with GPT-2:

“[02:09] ... It caught my radar. Something just interesting. It was more of a toy, though. You can write, like, word limericks, but they didn't sound good.”

As AI models evolved to GPT-3 and beyond, Mark observed significant improvements:

“[03:07] ... It keeps improving, it keeps compounding, it keeps getting more intelligent.”

Evolution of AI Models

Mark elaborates on the progression from GPT-2 to the more advanced GPT-3.5 and GPT-4 models:

“[03:45] ... I've been worried since I saw three get better and three and a half get better.”

He explains how ChatGPT's user interface revolutionized AI interaction by allowing iterative conversations:

“[02:09] ... ChatGPT, it's funny because it's basically the same version as GPT3, but with a different UI. And that UI changed everything because it allowed you to interact over and over again with the AI.”

Mark emphasizes the continuous enhancement of AI’s reasoning capabilities, making it a more reliable tool for creators:

“[03:45] ... It was definitely kind of a cause of concern. Right. I don't think AI is going to take over the world... but it was definitely kind of a toy when it came out.”

AI’s Impact on Online Courses

A central theme of the episode is the potential threat AI poses to traditional online course businesses. Jay poses the critical question:

“[10:40] ... How do, what is your reaction to this? Are you feeling the same way or do you see it differently?”

Mark Schust responds by acknowledging the transformative potential of AI in education:

“[10:40] ... AI is going to morph into more rather than learning or doing, it's going to be learning and doing. It's going to be just mirroring sort of real life.”

He predicts a shift from comprehensive, lengthy curricula to more atomic lessons—short, focused modules that AI can seamlessly integrate and personalize:

“[26:01] ... So the entire landscape might change in two, three years for all we know.”

Leveraging AI for Personalized Education

Mark discusses the advantages of AI in creating personalized learning experiences. He introduces the concept of treating AI interactions like conversations with a stranger, emphasizing the need for detailed prompts to achieve meaningful results:

“[05:56] ... You can almost think of it like that, where maybe it will never have creative thought, how humans think about, but it may be helping you to get inspired and create something new or original that maybe you didn't think of.”

Jay Clouse builds on this by illustrating how AI can serve as a real-time tutor:

“[07:43] ... It's like having a co-pilot or somebody sitting next to you who really understands this, that you can just turn to and be like, what? What is happening?”

Atomic Lessons Concept

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around atomic lessons—bite-sized educational units designed for optimal AI integration. Mark explains how breaking down complex topics into smaller, manageable lessons can enhance AI’s ability to deliver precise and relevant information:

“[26:37] ... So you have almost the same needle in a haystack problem I talked about before. So when you give the whole like LLMs are trained on everything in the world and they aren't really good at niche specific topics. Even part of building...”

This approach not only makes learning more efficient but also allows AI to tailor educational content to individual needs without unnecessary fluff:

“[27:30] ... So when you break things down and you can create your own knowledge graph on a really complex topic, you can just deliver much better results.”

SEO and AI’s Impact on Content Indexing

Jay raises concerns about how AI-driven search models like Large Language Models (LLMs) may affect traditional SEO strategies:

“[29:18] ... How much better are they going to get? But look at the graphs of a year ago even. How has AI progressed from a year ago to now? Right. It's been tremendous,...”

Mark Schust responds by highlighting the challenges AI poses for content creators aiming to maintain visibility:

“[29:18] ... It's definitely changing the SEO game a little bit and, and you could get surfaced in results, but it's, it's a crapshoot.”

He points out that while AI can aggregate and deliver information, it often lacks the nuanced personal touch that human experiences provide, which is crucial for authentic content ranking:

“[29:18] ... So like you talked about with TikTok, that was specific because it was personalized to your wife's browsing habits...”

The Importance of Human Community

Both host and guest emphasize the irreplaceable value of human interaction and community in the creator economy. Mark underscores the limitations of AI in replicating genuine human experiences and advice:

“[48:34] ... It's not what you’re getting with an AI, you can't really get that with an AI and you probably never will be. Right. It's just human experience.”

Jay reflects on this by sharing community-driven examples where human insights provided unparalleled value:

“[48:01] ... It was very negative because of this and I would stay away from it. So I looked at that post and I was like, wow, that's like a, that's a huge ROI.”

Mark concurs, noting that AI-generated responses lack the personal anecdotes and emotional intelligence that human communities offer:

“[48:34] ... It's just human experience. You can't really touch. Right. You can't replicate a human spirit, their interactions, their experiences...”

Future-Proofing Education Businesses

As the conversation nears its conclusion, Jay and Mark discuss strategies for creators to future-proof their educational offerings amidst rapid AI advancements. Mark advises a balanced approach:

“[44:02] ... if you're a creator, don't change your entire business because things usually progress over time very slowly...”

He recommends incremental adjustments, such as integrating chatbots or AI tools into existing systems rather than overhauling entire business models:

“[44:47] ... How you successfully build a reputation, being known for something and you completely change into a different direction, that's a big risk...”

Jay adds that focusing on building strong communities and fostering human connections may offer a competitive edge over purely AI-driven solutions:

“[46:40] ... it's best to just take advice from wherever you can get and then make your own decision, of course. But it's great to get that feedback from an actual human...”

Conclusion

Episode #253 of Creator Science provides a comprehensive exploration of AI's impact on the online education sector. Through insightful dialogue, Jay Clouse and Mark Schust uncover both the challenges and opportunities AI presents for course creators. Key takeaways include the importance of embracing atomic lessons for better AI integration, the evolving nature of SEO in an AI-dominated search landscape, and the enduring value of human communities in delivering authentic and personalized educational experiences. As AI continues to advance, creators are encouraged to adapt thoughtfully, leveraging technology to enhance rather than replace the human elements that drive meaningful learning.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Schust [02:09]: "Ever since then, it's just morphed into. It keeps improving, it keeps compounding, it keeps getting more intelligent."

• Mark Schust [05:56]: "You can almost treat an AI like, if you don't feed it any context or any other information outside of your current discussion or conversation, you can almost think of it like a stranger on the street."

• Mark Schust [10:40]: "AI is going to morph into more rather than learning or doing, it's going to be learning and doing."

• Mark Schust [26:37]: "So when you give the whole like LLMs are trained on everything in the world and they aren't really good at niche specific topics..."

• Mark Schust [29:18]: "It's definitely changing the SEO game a little bit and, and you could get surfaced in results, but it's, it's a crapshoot."

• Mark Schust [48:34]: "You can't really get that with an AI and you probably never will be. Right. It's just human experience."

This episode serves as a crucial resource for creators navigating the intersection of AI and online education, offering strategic insights to thrive in an increasingly automated world.