Podcast Summary: Creator Science #272
Episode Title: Live from CEX: Book sales, book updates, and planning for the future | Justin Moore
Host: Jay Clouse
Guest: Justin Moore
Date: September 2, 2025
Episode Overview
This candid, in-person conversation between Jay Clouse and Justin Moore, recorded live at the 2025 Content Entrepreneur Expo (CEX), is a deep dive into the realities of self-publishing, book marketing, leveraging books for business growth, and future planning for creators. Both hosts—each at different stages of the book author journey—share tactical numbers, honest experiences, and forward-thinking ideas around becoming a creator-author.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Realities of Self-Publishing Success
- Initial Book Sales & Strategies [03:53–06:15]
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Justin presold over 2,000 copies of Sponsor Magnet before launch (01/21/2025).
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Approaching 5,000 copies sold, plus nearly 1,000 given away; estimated 6,000 to 7,000 books in readers’ hands.
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Launch focused on direct website sales to foster a reader relationship (email capture) before also making available on Amazon and Audible.
“The punchline was that the average new release sells less than 450 copies... You only really know if you have a good product if it starts selling beyond you.” — Jay Clouse [05:08]
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2. Review Gathering, Metrics, & Word-of-Mouth Effects
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Why Reviews Matter [06:15–09:20]
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Justin actively solicits reviews (currently ~148 on Amazon).
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Cites that 200 reviews may trigger Amazon algorithm “push,” but real target (from Noah Kagan’s playbook): 1,000 reviews for long-term book momentum.
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Uses “review requests” in-book and via DMs/shortcuts.
“I did the hard work of writing a good book... really, it’s like writing a good book is the most important part.” — Justin Moore [07:09]
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Review Tactics & Amazon Nuances
- Explains nuanced review solicitation tactics, Amazon’s preference for “verified” reviews, and the verification challenge when selling direct.
- Cautions about triggering anti-spam filters by delivering too many reviews at once.
3. Distribution Mix & Royalties [09:20–12:02]
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Direct vs. Platform Sales
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75% of sales are direct, 25% via Amazon/Audible/Spotify.
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Audiobook also available on Spotify and distributed via Authors Republic.
“I’m not really looking to make money on the book. I wrote it for impact... but from a business standpoint, it’s a profound lead generation mechanism for coaching.” — Justin Moore [12:02]
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Revenue Streams
- Book generates steady monthly profits ($2,000–$3,000/month).
- Book is not intended as a primary revenue source, but as a powerful lead magnet/brand authority builder.
4. Book as a Growth Engine for Coaching & Courses [13:42–18:11]
- Book–>Challenge–>Coaching Funnel: Real Analytics
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Justin tested a 10K Brand Deal Challenge: $12.5k on ads, $3k consultant, collected $14k in challenge registration revenue, ~7.5% conversion to coaching (6/79 joiners), $15k in coaching revenue.
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Majority of challenge sign-ups (~75%) had already read Justin’s book, surprising for a paid cold ad challenge.
“We thought the majority of people joining would have no idea who I was... but about 75% of people... had read my book already. That blew our mind.” — Justin [18:11]
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5. Ad Experiments, Creative Leverage & Iteration [18:46–24:25]
- High-ROI Advertising
- Justin emphasizes that creators, due to their skill in organic content, can outperform with creative, thumb-stopping ads.
- Iterative Conversion Optimization
- Future experiments: shift ad spend to book giveaways (just pay shipping) to nurture colder prospects toward challenges and coaching.
- Live Challenge Energy
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Quarterly/bi-monthly cohort model; personal fulfillment from helping beginners directly.
“What I get most excited about is seeing people have wins... that’s what I crave.” — Justin [21:52]
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6. Optimization vs. New Projects—Creator Mindset [24:25–25:53]
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Justin struggles not to start new things, now focusing on optimizing/iterating core offers instead of adding more.
“I’ve now entered a phase where I’m not launching anything new. It goes against my nature.” — Justin [24:57]
7. Unique Advantages of Self-Publishing [25:53–29:12]
- Book Customization & Print on Demand
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Exploring special conference or collaboration editions with custom covers, inserts, guest forewords for event partners, etc.
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Allows niche targeting (e.g., Sponsor Magnet for Podcasters/YouTubers/Nonprofits).
“I could maybe bank the rest of my career on the ‘Chicken Soup for the Soul’ strategy” — Justin [29:12]
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8. Planning Future Books & Brand Strategy [29:12–31:16]
- Trade-offs of franchise book strategy (“Sponsor Magnet for X”) vs. expanding optionality and author identity.
- Discusses future brand naming/positioning.
9. Traditional Publishing, Career Author Ambitions, and Personal Growth [31:33–46:20]
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Jay’s Perspective:
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Wants to be a “career author” despite not yet publishing first book. Enjoys the process, sees the book as a vehicle to expand beyond the core creator market into larger/interpersonal topics.
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Sees traditional publishing as necessary to break outside online audience for broad impact.
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Book writing as an “artist-led” project vs. business ROI.
“As of this recording... my current state of mind is that I want to be a career author... I want to write a book that sells millions of copies.” — Jay [31:54; 38:19]
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Measuring Success & Opportunity Cost
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Examines the risk/opportunity trade-off: major time investment, uncertain ROI, but high intrinsic/long-term value.
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Both hosts note: writing a book, regardless of sales, results in valuable clarity, deep audience impact, and new business opportunities that other formats rarely unlock.
“Even if you don’t sell millions... nothing compares to someone spending that much time reading something you labored over.” — Justin [43:21]
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10. Books as a Business Multiplier (Lead Generation, Authority, Unexpected Clients) [49:24–50:42]
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Book has generated consulting and business relationships with clients who never consumed Justin’s digital content.
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In specialized or B2B niches, a book can result in high-value consulting/partnerships.
“I’ve actually signed six figure consulting arrangements just from the book... My most sincere advice is: write a book. It’s a great investment of your time.” — Justin [50:18; 50:42]
11. AI & Publishing: Ethical Choices & the Role of Clear Thinking [44:40–48:39]
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Justin wrote his book without AI, valued the clarity and struggle.
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Now uses his written book to “train” AI models for team/customer support.
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Predicts increasing value of original, thoughtful writing as creators/consumers react to mass AI content.
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Jay speculates publishing may either widen access (more bets, smaller advances) or double down on “gatekeeper/tastemaker” legitimacy.
“Nothing has been a more difficult process of thinking than writing a book. If you prioritize writing, you’ll prioritize becoming a stronger thinker.” — Jay [44:40]
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
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On Book Reviews:
“I have a little shortcut in my phone... I make the ask to do a review. Those reviews are prized to me.” — Justin [06:15]
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On Success Metrics:
“If I were writing this book strictly for the audience I have already attracted, I would self-publish... but if you want to get outside your audience, you still have to do traditional.” — Jay [33:42]
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On Artistic Satisfaction:
“Compliments on my writing hit so much better than anything else.” — Jay [43:31]
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On Book Impact:
“Nothing compares to someone spending that much time reading something you labored over for so long.” — Justin [43:21]
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On Book as a Business Card:
“Books are a bridge to a significant portion of the population who just don’t consume in the way that we create.” — Jay [50:08]
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On AI Writing:
“I wanted to sit in the uncomfy nature of not really knowing where I’m going... that writer’s block was a healthy part of writing the book.” — Justin [45:26]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Book Launch & Sales Numbers: 03:53–06:15
- Review Tactics: 06:15–09:20
- Distribution Channels & Revenue: 09:20–12:02
- Book as Lead Magnet/Business Driver: 12:28–14:29
- 10K Brand Deal Challenge Funnel: 14:33–18:11
- Creative Ad Experiments: 18:46–19:56
- Optimization vs. Iteration: 24:25–25:53
- Print on Demand Book Innovations: 26:02–29:12
- Franchise Book Strategy: 29:12–31:16
- Traditional Publishing & Author Ambitions: 31:33–38:19
- Book Impact & Personal Meaning: 43:21–46:20
- AI in Writing & Publishing Industry Futures: 44:40–48:39
- Books Unlocking Offline/High-Value Clients: 49:24–50:42
Final Thoughts
This episode serves as both a tactical and philosophical exploration of writing and publishing a book as a creator: from launch mechanics and review generation, to leveraging books as a business accelerator, to reflections on art, impact, and navigating the shifting landscape of AI and publishing. Both Justin and Jay emphasize the long view: while the financial ROI of book writing is uncertain, the process pays dividends in clarity, authority, reach, and personal fulfillment.
If you’re a creator contemplating a book—or wrestling with whether to go self-publish, hybrid, or traditional—these two give you the transparent play-by-play, with both the numbers and the nuance.