Creator Science Podcast #279 Summary

Title: How We Navigate Our Different Internal Characters (and Her Experience as a First-Time Author)
Host: Jay Clouse
Guest: Amanda Goetz
Date: October 21, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Jay Clouse sits down with Amanda Goetz—entrepreneur, marketer, and now author—to talk about her debut book "Toxic: How to Have It All and Actually Love What You Have." They dig deeply into Amanda’s concept of “character theory,” which explores how we embody multiple internal roles that often have competing needs, and how creators (and parents, and partners) can better identify, honor, and manage these inner "characters" day-to-day. The conversation also covers Amanda’s often vulnerable experience as a first-time author, insights on personal growth and transitions, the realities of publishing and marketing a book, and how identity, authenticity, and structure intersect in her creative and personal life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embracing Expanding Identities and the “And, Not Or” Mindset

Timestamps: 02:28–04:23

• Amanda discusses the disorienting feeling of adding "author" to her established identity as a marketer and CMO.
• She reminds listeners that adding new roles doesn’t mean closing old doors:
  • “Doors don't have to shut and be locked...you can also leave doors open.”—Amanda (02:58)
• Jay and Amanda riff on James Clear’s “hats, haircuts, and tattoos” metaphor for decisions—most identity choices aren’t permanent, even if we treat them as such.
• Amanda emphasizes it’s about embracing “and, not or,” especially as opportunities and roles accumulate.

2. Character Theory: Understanding Our Internal Cast

Timestamps: 04:20–07:44

• Amanda introduces "character theory," the core of her book:
  • “This book really came from the fact that I have all of these versions of me that...have competing goals. It's about figuring out who's calling the shots and for how long.”—Amanda (05:00)
• She explains that for many (especially women), society’s narratives demand either ambition or domesticity, but rarely both.
• Her research included interviews and validation across diverse backgrounds, resulting in ten unique “characters” within us, each with different needs (work, mom, explorer, partner, etc.).
• Recognizing clashes between characters (e.g., work-you vs. mom-you) is crucial, and intentional transitions between these roles are needed for sanity and success.

3. From Startup to Book: How the Theory Grew

Timestamps: 08:03–12:23

• Amanda traces the origin of “character theory” to running House of Wise during COVID, when women especially experienced the collapse of boundaries between work, parenting, and self-care.
• Helping women compartmentalize and set time-boundaries was core to the startup and is now central to the book.
• She shares her long, iterative process of moving from Twitter-length wisdom to the richer, more nuanced format of a book, using her fast-growing newsletter ("Life's a Game") to test ideas.

4. Nuance and the Limits of Social Media

Timestamps: 12:36–13:29

• Amanda notes that social media’s lack of context and nuance made the deeper themes of her book impossible to tackle in tweets or posts.
• The need for a longer, more complex medium sparked her turn to publishing.

5. Writing, Pitching, and Publishing: The Real Book Journey

Timestamps: 13:29–23:49

• Amanda’s path—from messy Google Sheets, to a thriving newsletter, to ultimately signing with an agent and going through intensive rewrites and publisher rejections—was intense and non-linear.
• When talking about the submission process, Amanda describes how publishers misunderstood her proposal at first:
  • “They thought this was just another book about burnout...Burnout's been talked about too much.” (15:18)
• A deal came through at the very last minute, leading to a “frantic” but ultimately affirming publishing path.
• On writing, Amanda’s favorite part was her focused creative time, but editing was unexpectedly grueling—she describes literally cutting up her manuscript and rearranging it on her floor to find the right flow.
  • Quote: “I cut the entire book up and I separated it all on my floor and then I just put it back together.”—Amanda (00:00, 23:25)

6. The Emotional Toll and Practical Challenges of Launching a Book

Timestamps: 25:07–27:51

• Amanda is candid about the vulnerability and pressure of launching a book:
  • “I'm marketing me. For marketers, that's the hardest thing...figuring out how to ask people for favors...it’s difficult. I'm working through it both in therapy and in real time.”
• She discusses redefining “success” beyond bestseller lists, and the challenge of not internalizing industry benchmarks as personal value.

7. Growth Mindset: On First Books and Imperfect Success

Timestamps: 27:51–28:13

• Both Amanda and Jay acknowledge that creators’ best work often comes later, not with the first book—Amanda is proud of the book, but already sees ways she’s grown as a writer since finishing it.

8. Authenticity, Self-Understanding, and Online Identity

Timestamps: 29:43–36:10

• Amanda challenges the way authenticity is used—and sometimes weaponized—online:
  • “I have had to do a lot of work internally to be okay also not being understood.”
• Her character theory asks not only which ‘character’ is acting, but “what script are they reading from, and who wrote it?” Many operate from scripts imposed by family or society, not their present selves.
• Brilliant Visual: She shares a therapist’s metaphor—imagine your adult self driving a bus, with all previous selves as passengers; sometimes an old inner voice “hijacks the bus.”
• Jay echoes her sentiment and offers a favorite maxim:
  • “‘Share your scars, not your scabs.’...Is this scar tissue yet, or is this still a scab?” (36:10)
• Both agree: creators should process before sharing publicly; “processed wisdom” is what helps others, not unfiltered emotional reactions.

9. Character Hierarchies and Negotiating Transitions in Life & Business

Timestamps: 39:32–41:25

• Jay and Amanda discuss the reality that not all “characters” can or should lead at once—hierarchy is seasonal and circumstantial.
  • Amanda: “Guilt comes from actually trying to balance [roles] instead of allowing them to fall into an order.”
• In relationships and co-parenting, clear communication about who’s “driving” is essential to reduce stress and support each other’s needs.

10. From Theory to Practice: Family Dynamics & Co-Parenting

Timestamps: 41:43–46:45

• Amanda shares how she uses this language with her partner to communicate the need for role transitions (e.g., CEO mode vs. partner mode).
• They discuss the challenge of “parallel play” with a toddler at home, and Amanda recommends the concept of structured co-parenting—even within the same household—to reduce cognitive load and stress.

11. Structure Creates Freedom (Even When Structure Feels Unnatural)

Timestamps: 46:41–47:00

• Amanda’s belief: “Structure creates freedom.” Rigorous role-division and boundaries allow for deeper engagement and rejuvenation in each role.

12. The Realities of Packaging and Marketing a Book

Timestamps: 47:00–49:47

• Amanda’s publisher was data-driven about title and cover, running tests to see what resonated.
• As an experienced marketer herself, relinquishing control was tough—but ultimately rewarding when the final choices resonated with real readers.

13. Lessons Learned & Future Books

Timestamps: 50:03–52:00

• Amanda plans to focus less on “pulling all the levers” (e.g., in-person promotion) and more on high-leverage marketing, especially newsletter swaps, for her next launch.
• She values live, in-person energy but acknowledges newsletters’ reach and influence for scaling a book’s impact.

Notable Quotes

• On Identity:
  “Doors don't have to shut and be locked. As you add to your portfolio of life...you can leave doors open.”—Amanda (02:55)
• On Character Theory:
  “This book really came from the fact that I have all these versions of me...with competing goals. It's about figuring out who's calling the shots and for how long.”—Amanda (05:00)
• On Past Selves:
  “You have to stop and say, which past version of me just hijacked the bus?”—Amanda (32:39)
• On Authenticity:
  “Authenticity now needs to be inward work...it’s not your job to over explain who you are.”—Amanda (30:00)
• On Publishing:
  “Writing the book—my favorite thing...editing took a year. I cut the entire book up and I separated it all on my floor and then I just put it back together.”—Amanda (23:24, 00:00)
• On Launch Anxiety:
  “I'm marketing me. For marketers, that's the hardest thing.”—Amanda (25:15)
• On Scar vs. Scab:
  “Share your scars, not your scabs...Is this scar tissue yet, or is this still a scab?”—Jay (36:12)
• On Structure:
  “I’m a firm believer that structure creates freedom.”—Amanda (46:45)
• On Role Hierarchy:
  “Guilt comes from actually trying to balance [roles] instead of allowing them to kind of fall into an order.”—Amanda (41:06)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:28–04:23 — Embracing Multiple Identities
• 04:20–07:44 — Character Theory Explained
• 08:03–12:23 — Origin of the Framework & Research
• 13:29–23:49 — The Book Writing & Publishing Journey
• 25:07–27:51 — Navigating Book Launch Pressure
• 29:43–36:10 — Authenticity, Inner Scripts, and the School Bus Metaphor
• 39:32–41:25 — Character Hierarchies and Role Management
• 41:43–46:45 — Family, Partner, and Co-Parenting Dynamics

Memorable Moments

• Amanda literally cutting up her book and rearranging it on the floor to solve a structural problem (00:00, 23:24).
• The school bus metaphor for past and present selves (32:32).
• “Share scars, not scabs”—a succinct maxim for creators on vulnerability (36:10).
• Candid discussion on how launching a book is unlike any other marketing challenge—because you’re the product.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone who feels stretched across multiple roles (creator, parent, partner, leader), wants more self-compassion, or is curious about building frameworks that help us navigate inner (and outer) complexity as we grow in our work and lives.