Creator Science Podcast #289: Paul Millerd — The Truth About Traditional Publishing (And The Deal He Would’ve Taken)

Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Jay Clouse
Guest: Paul Millerd, author of The Pathless Path

Episode Overview

In this candid conversation, Jay Clouse is joined by Paul Millerd to unpack the realities of traditional vs. self-publishing as a creator. They revisit Paul’s journey with his breakout book The Pathless Path—which has sold nearly 70,000 copies and earned him over $325,000 in royalties—and discuss his recent bold experiment: an ultra-premium hardcover edition. The episode digs deep into the economics, mindset, and creative control involved in publishing, why Paul turned down a substantial offer from Penguin Random House, and what the future could hold for entrepreneurial authors.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Paul’s Journey to Publishing Success (00:58–05:37)

• Writing Origins: Paul started writing in December 2020, drawing from years of consistent writing since 2018. The book was self-funded by his online course on strategy consulting.
  • Quote: “My mental model was fund a writing and creative life through other things.” (03:06, Paul Millerd)
• Expectations vs. Reality: Initially, he aimed simply to break even ($7,000 spent). Selling 1,000–1,500 copies felt like the maximum outcome.
• Surprise Success: Today, he sells that many monthly; The Pathless Path has sold nearly 70,000 copies.

2. Audience Connection & Approach to Self-Publishing (05:53–12:05)

• No Traditional Deal Sought: With a small but high-signal audience, Paul never considered seeking a traditional publisher early on, valuing independence and tight connection with readers.
• Feedback Loop: Reader engagement was crucial post-launch. Paul only truly invests his excitement and energy after a release, using feedback as fuel.
• Writing for a Niche: His “curiosity conversations” with readers heavily influenced the book’s direction; connection and word-of-mouth became his biggest growth levers.

3. The Dark Side and Limits of Traditional Publishing (12:05–16:43)

• Traditional Publisher’s “Customer” is Bookstores: This shapes conservative choices and packaging.
• Asymmetric Bet Problem: Unlike other fields, most traditional publishing deals offer low upside and significant loss of rights.
• Long-term Creative Value: Paul reflects on his career, concluding that writing and self-publishing are deeply satisfying, even compared to higher-paying but less meaningful work.
  • Quote: “At the end of my life, am I going to be satisfied that I did this? … My two books stand out above everything else.” (13:13, Paul Millerd)

4. The Penguin Random House Offer Story (17:53–23:43)

• The Offer: In March 2023, Penguin offered Paul $70,000 for lifetime rights to The Pathless Path and a second book (two-book deal for $200,000).
• Why He Turned It Down:
  • Royalty breakdown was less than his monthly self-publishing income.
  • Lack of publisher creativity or real engagement with his book.
  • Loss of flexibility and rights was not offset by other advantages.
  • Quote: “There was no upside, the math didn’t work, the creativity was not exciting, and I was having the time of my life. Readers were loving this book and they wanted to take it out of print… It just didn’t make any sense to me.” (20:40, Paul Millerd)

▶️ Important Segment: Penguin Offer

• Paul's Counter: He requested $600,000 for The Pathless Path rights only. Penguin balked, stating they don’t pay that much—information Paul knows is not always true.

5. When Traditional Publishing Makes Sense (25:04–29:09)

• Ideal Scenarios: Paul would consider a “print-only” deal (retaining all digital/audio rights) with a meaningful reversion clause, similar to the deal Hugh Howey negotiated.
  • Rights Issues: The standard U.S. practice of lifetime rights is, in his view, damaging to authors’ long-term creative prospects.
  • Cone of Secrecy: Many traditionally published authors are dissatisfied but hesitant to speak out.

6. The Economics of Book Rights and Distribution (29:09–34:43)

• Growth Limits: Paul acknowledges that traditional publishers offer reach he cannot replicate alone, but only under equitable terms (five-year reversion, print/territorial rights only).
• International Norms: Many foreign publishers operate on limited-duration licenses, unlike the U.S.
• Market Opportunities: Emerging companies are starting to buy back neglected rights and revive books as print-on-demand editions.

7. Experiments in Premium Self-Publishing (40:37–53:45)

• The New Hardcover: Paul’s motivation was to “raise the bar,” challenge self-publishing limitations, and delight longtime supporters.
  • He spent $75,000+ over 18 months crafting a beautiful, $100 edition, with hand-picked materials and design.
  • Inspiration: Books like the Steel Brothers’ “Walden” reissue and working with boutique publisher Otterpine.
  • Quote: “The goal was: I want this to be the sexiest book my readers own.” (46:10, Paul Millerd)
• Economics and Logistics:
  • Printing 2,500 copies lowered per-unit cost (about $10–$15/book, plus $8 for the slipcase).
  • Selling direct increases margins ($14–$15 on paperbacks vs. $7–$8 on Amazon; hardcovers via traditional: $3–$5 per copy).
  • Direct sales enable bundling, customer data, and creative packaging impossible via Amazon/retail.

8. Advice and Mental Models for Authors (38:10–39:44; 55:29–56:24)

• Write an Enduring Book: Focus more on making a book readers will finish, cherish, and recommend for years, not just on launch tactics.
  • Quote: “Write a banger. Don’t worry about the marketing because the easiest way to market a book is write something that people buy, finish, share and gift.” (38:54, Paul Millerd)
• Experiment, Accept Uncertainty: Paul admits uncertainty about the results of his hardcover bet but reiterates that satisfaction, creativity, and impact trump short-term profit.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There’s this cone of secrecy around the entire [publishing] industry and I’m talking to authors working with these traditional publishers and they’re afraid to say these things in public.” (00:38, Paul Millerd)
• “It’s beautiful. Passive income, it’s the best, it’s the finest. It’s like the fine wine of passive income.” (15:22, Paul Millerd, on book royalties)
• “Think about this: James Clear… the most successful author on the planet… is not publishing another book with a traditional publishing house. He’s building his own. So what does he know?” (35:26, Paul Millerd)
• “How can I write something I actually want to talk about for 10 years?” (38:32, Paul Millerd)
• "I want authors to dream bigger. I want to see more creative work in the world, and I hope I can make a small dent in enabling people to see more possibilities." (56:24, Paul Millerd)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Writing & Launch Expectations: 01:00–03:49
• Book Takes Off, Energy Shifts: 03:57–05:37
• Growing Book by Connecting with Niche Readers: 09:09–12:05
• Dark Side of Publishing and Creative Payoff: 12:05–16:43
• Penguin Random House Offer Story: 17:53–23:43
• Why Traditional Publishing May or May Not Make Sense: 25:04–29:09
• Rights Reversion and Market Opportunities: 29:09–34:43
• Economics and Tactics of Premium Hardcover: 40:37–53:45
• Direct Sales, Bundling, and Margins: 49:02–54:03
• Focus on Enduring Work and Encouragement for Creators: 38:10–39:44, 55:29–56:24

Final Reflections

Paul and Jay’s honest, nuanced discussion spotlights the evolving landscape of publishing for creators. Paul’s story is a masterclass in valuing creative independence, prioritizing reader connection, and building a book’s longevity through quality and authenticity over fleeting prestige. He urges fellow authors to experiment boldly, retain control, and invest in work they’ll be proud to champion for decades.