← Creator Science with Jay Clouse
Creator Science with Jay Clouse
#305: Big 3: Three Wins, Three Concerns, and Three Experiments for May
00:35:49
My “mini retro” for April 2026.
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Hello my friend. Welcome back to another episode of Creator Science. Every month Inside the Lab, which is our membership community for professional creators, I do what I call a 30 minute retro. Retro is short for retrospective. I look back on the previous month to the performance of my goals, things that went well, things that are of concern, changes I'm making, and goals for the next month. It's about a 30 to 45 minute video that I publish every month. It's extremely transparent. It looks behind the scenes of the business. I don't feel comfortable sharing that every month externally with everybody, but I like the practice so much and I think it's so useful and I wish more people shared things like this that I'm running an experiment here on the podcast to produce a lightweight version of that on a monthly basis. So consider this my lightweight retro for April. I'm also thinking about calling it the Big Three because I have three big wins to share, three big concerns, and three big experiments that I want to run in the next month. So that's what we're talking about today. Three big wins for April, three big concerns heading into May, and three big experiments that I'm kicking off in May as well. We'll get to all of that right after this. May is a great time to join our membership community the Lab, and let me tell you why. Number one, we're doing a new round of Mastermind matching beginning on May 18th. We will hand curate a group of six to eight other members with similar businesses to help push you further. Number two, we have three special events this month. A community wide mastermind on May 20, a workshop to learn the business of speaking with Jay Akunzo on May 21, and a community roundtable for members using Circle on May 27. If you're around London, we even have an in person meetup on May 22nd. Finally, and maybe most importantly, the Lab Offline powered by circle is happening June 8th through 9th. It's not too late to join the Lab and punch your ticket to join us there in Boise. There'll be 50 of us hanging out in person for two days. It's always a great time to join the lab, but May is especially great. You can learn more and join us@creatorscience.com lab. That's creatorscience.com lab. Hope to see you inside ready to
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Let's start things off with the big wins for April. If you're a member of the Lab already, by the way, all of this is going to be in my monthly Retro that's in the Lab in more depth, with even more transparency, because you'll see all the numbers behind my month. So just to save you a little bit of time, if you're already in the Lab, I would recommend just watching the Retro for the month and let this episode be for folks who are not yet in the lab. Okay, so April, big wins that I want to share. Win number one, which maybe you've picked up on this if you read the newsletter. Mal and I are expecting a second child this fall. We're expecting a baby boy. So we'll have one boy, one girl. It's extremely exciting. We were trying, so it's not the biggest surprise in the world, but it is like the greatest excitement that we have in our lives right now. Very, very, very, very excited about this. And so that child will be born in late October, early November sometime, which really colors the rest of my year. Basically, we have six months, maybe a little bit less than six months right now, to get things in order and prepare for that. I think in 2024, when our daughter was born, I got a little bit ahead of things and had some content that was ready to go. Didn't plan any calls, but largely didn't change the business at all, which set me up for the the last almost two years now of really playing catch up. We didn't structure the business differently. I didn't have less output. In fact, I continued to try to add more output onto my plate in far less time. So with this big win of Klaus baby number two coming in the fall, we are taking much more aggressive steps now to prepare our business and therefore our lives to have more space and peace. I guess I would say, for when baby number two comes in the fall, the goal internally is that Mal and I will take family leave November and December, which that's coming up fast. But if you're gonna take two months off, hard to think of a better two months for Nora. We took off three months each. And so if that drips into January a little bit, also not a bad time, but it feels like I'm going to work my butt off and sprint and sprint and sprint and set us up to have that time alone with the family and could not be more excited. I feel like that's extremely exciting. And one of the things that we'll talk about here later today is, okay, how we going to make those changes? I'll talk about that in the experiment section. Win number two. In April, I signed my biggest partnership deal ever. It's with Circle. Circle is absolutely core to the business. Could not be living this life, could not be building this business this way without Circle. The lab is built on Circle. I have the highest tier of subscription to Circle. 9 times out of 10 when I talk to somebody about which community platform they should use in their business, we land on Circle. And the one time that we don't land on Circle is if they really want something that is very chatty and real time feeling like they want something that feels more like Slack or Discord or Telegram or WhatsApp. But most of the time, if we're talking about community platforms, the vast majority of the time I'm talking about Circle. So it feels really, really great to have a partnership with them that'll run through the rest of the year. I've never done something of this degree, but we're partnered with them for the rest of the year. So you'll hear me talk more about Circle, how I use Circle things. They're changing and introducing in the product to make your life better and easier as a community builder. Could not be more aligned. I have a very, very tight filter on companies I'll do any partnership with. And at the tippy tippy top of that list of companies that are tools I use and endorse and love and genuinely want to talk about, Circle is at the tippy tippy top. So I feel very lucky, very grateful for this opportunity to work even more deeply with them. Win number three. I am speaking at Press Publish la, Colin and Samir's event in late May. That's exciting. That's actually part of the partnership I have with Circle. They are sponsoring the event. They have the opportunity to have a speaker come in and talk about memberships and I'm that guy. So I'm excited to be there in la. If you're going to be there, let me know. It's going to be a quick turnaround for me. I'm getting in on Wednesday evening, speaking on Thursday, flying out Friday morning. But if you're going to be there, I'd love to meet up. Very excited about this event. They're doing it on a Hollywood soundstage, I believe. One of the Fox lots. If I am correct, obviously have huge respect for what Colin and Samir do. I love in person events. I love experiences. I love community. This is going to be a fun time for me to be around the creator community that they have built in la. And I get a chance to talk about memberships and why. I think a lot of creators are sleeping on this opportunity and could be doing more with it. So if you're going to be there, we'd love to see you come out, hang out at my panel on Thursday afternoon and hopefully we'll, we'll chat and have a coffee out there too. So those are my big wins from April. There are more wins that I'll share in my longer retro, but the big ones, baby boy coming in the fall, big partnership opportunity with Circle speaking at Press Publish la. Feels awesome. Feels like I'm living my dream life. Now let's talk about big concerns. The biggest concern is that I'm noticing in my audience and my customers what I'm calling an oxygen mask moment, meaning we're in this time. People throw around the word uncertainty. And that's been the word that I'm throwing around a lot. Derek Thompson has been using this term vibe session, in which he says, we're not in an economic recession. The data does not show that we're in a recession. In fact, the data shows that we have higher employment than ever. People are generally making more money than before. But the vibes do not reflect that. The vibes tend to be that people are uncomfortable, uncertain, worried, feeling worse off. And I'm noticing that. I'm noticing that in my audience, in my customers, and the way that's playing out is I'm seeing fewer purchases on things. I'm seeing higher skepticism. I'm seeing people taking a longer time to deliberate and make decisions. And I get it. When I feel less financially secure, more uncertain about the future, my inherent instinct is to withdraw, is to withdraw. It's to play defense. It's to hoard resources and kind of try to ride out the concern. And I'm seeing that in my audience, in my customers, because my customers have customers. And this might be a lesson for you, too. If your customers don't have customers, then it will be harder for you to have customers. And as I'm seeing people tell me that, hey, I'm gonna step out of the lab for a little bit, a lot of times they're indicating that their business isn't doing as well, that they need to tighten up is some of the language they're using. And I'm worried. I'm worried for others. I'm worried for our business to some degree, I suppose. But the reason I'm calling it an oxygen mask moment is because I see this behavior of, well, I need to make sure I can take care of me before I can take care of other people. And I understand that. But even outside of purchasing, I see it a little bit in people's behavior in terms of generosity. I'm seeing fewer people acting as a villager. You know, there's this idea that we all want a village, but nobody wants the inconvenience or commitment or obligation of being a villager. I think in times of uncertainty, vibe sessions, people are even more hesitant to be a villager when we need it the most. You know, this is where I had a coach one time. He framed it, you give where it hurts. If you feel like you're not being seen, if you're not being appreciated, the best thing you can do is see and appreciate other people. If you're feeling like you're not getting gratitude from other people, the best thing you could do is give gratitude to other people. And I feel like in this moment, where the instinct is to withdraw and play defense, there's an alternative path, which is to go on the offensive, to try and combat this by going counter to your instincts. Now, of course, I'm not recommending you do this irresponsibly and start throwing money about wherever, for anything under the sun. I think you need to be responsible and thoughtful about this. But I do think that strong businesses are built in times of recession when things feel harder, because if you can make it during that time, you can make it anytime. So I would say if you are feeling this, number one, I want to hear from you to substantiate that I'm not crazy. Number two, I would say give where it hurts. Be generous, help other people. Of course you want to make sure that you are taken care of. But I think in this moment, it really matters to be somebody who is there for other people, that other people can rely on, that other people can lean on. I think that will actually give you a lot of the positive feelings, emotions, experiences that you're looking for. And I just have a hunch that by being more generous and being more thoughtful about your audience, about your customers, that is actually what you need to do in this moment. So we're doing a lot of that in the business. That was concern number one. Okay, let me put a point on that. Concern number one is this point of slower sales, this oxygen mask moment. This feeling of it's never been more important in my time in business to prove your value. I think people are more skeptical, more discerning. They're holding every purchase to a higher level of expectation. So a lot of what we're doing as a team is looking at our products, our services, and we're saying, what should we double down on and improve? What should we get rid of? What, where can we be excellent? How can we make this experience better? How can we make sure our people are doing okay? That is really where we're spending a lot of our mental time behind the scenes here to say, let's give more. How do we make this better and better and more helpful to our people? Which is challenging because that actually also the pursuit of trying to make a better experience conflicts with the time and energy needed to serve in the current experience. To make that very, very concrete, I want to make the lab experience better. So last week, I guess two weeks ago, I spent a couple of days really improving our new member onboarding experience to try and move a couple of key levers. Like, I know when somebody joins, the faster they get connected to another person who has solved a problem that they are coming in, trying to solve, the happier and better off they're going to be. I know that when someone comes into the lab, the faster they get subscribed to our members only podcast feed, the better off they're going to be because that helps them stay connected even when they're not attending a live event or watching something in the community. Those private podcasts are important for me to do those things. I couldn't spend time at the same time responding direct messages, responding to posts. So it's ironic that in making the overall experience better for the long term, it actually feels like it's in conflict with delivering the best experience I can in the short term. Like, I feel this, this heaviness and this anxiety of I'm behind on direct messages, I'm behind on some of these posts. It's conflicting in that way. But I think, like I said right now is a moment to say, how can I be excellent in the thing that I'm doing and try to ensure more success, more positive outcomes from my people? Okay, Concern number one is this oxygen mask moment. Concern number two, we are rebuilding a lot of things right now kind of from the ground up, working on the subscriber journey for email subscribers. We're looking at the product suite, as I said, and saying what of this needs to stay and what can kind of be retired or put back behind the paywall of the lab, we have a bunch of paid workshops and courses we made over the years that they're very specific. You know, we have this course podcast, like a YouTuber that is specifically for podcasters who want to start doing video on YouTube and specifically remote interviews. That's a pretty specific product that doesn't make a lot of sense to introduce in like your typical subscriber onboarding journey. And so it actually makes sense to de emphasize that as a paid product and focus instead on the things that are more applicable to more subscribers, like Creator hq, our notion template. But even that, like you have to be interested in notion to want to use that. So the one thing that we know for sure works, makes people happy, is a good fit for the business is the lab. All three tiers. But besides the lowest tier in the lab, the basic tier, folks who do not yet qualify for standard and vip. I'm not really doing a great job of serving the segment of our audience that is not eligible for Standard and vip. When I look at Right Message and our subscriber analytics, I know that only about 13% of my email subscribers are likely eligible for standard and VIP tiers in the lab, which means 87% of my email subscribers don't have a way for me to directly work with them outside of the basic tier in the lab, which is not insignificant. That is a $700 per year purchase. I recognize that, yes, it has all of my products, which are $1,600 worth of value. You get that on day one. But a $700 purchase is still not nothing. You know, it's significant. And I think we have an opportunity to create wildly successful and worthwhile products at a lower price point. For folks who are earlier on in their journey, that helps them get from step one to step two. We just have to kind of see what transformations, what steps do we want to help people with. Because the business is a little complicated right now. It's a little too complex. I want to simplify things down from a subscriber and product suite perspective. We're looking at our positioning, how we tell the creator science story a little bit better. The way I think about this now is there's a spectrum between entertainment and education in the creator economy. And we are far more towards the end of education and what we do here at Creator Science. You know, we're not looking at the biggest, flashiest creators, we're not looking at celebrities, we're not looking at entertainment. We're looking at everyday people who have built remarkable businesses. Helping others. You know, whether that's education, whether that's some sort of transformation, some sort of outcome, that's our people, people are helping others go from A to B on some sort of skill set. And I need to get that story down a little bit tighter, talk about it a little bit more. But I think that's actually like the bigger opportunity in the creator economy. That's most people entering the creator economy. They're not going to be entertainers, they're going to be people who are helping others. It's like almost entirely our audience. It's people who are in the knowledge, education transformation, teaching business. And I need to tell that story a little bit better. We're looking at our email template, our website design, like all these things, this is a lot of rebuilding and I think it's a good time to do it during this kind of vibe session is to tighten everything up, make it better, make it a little clearer, make everything we do more excellent. That's the North Star. Which brings us to concern number three. Are we trying to do too much? Am I trying to rebuild too much? Is even the process of trying to simplify adding a lot of projects to our plate? And are all of those essential? I'm thinking about that as we look at our list of projects over the coming months. Are these all essential? Am I trying to do a little bit too much? So those three concerns were number one, this oxygen mask moment of sales slowing down. Number two, we're rebuilding a lot. Number three, which in retrospect I recognize is kind of the same as number two. Are we trying to do too much with all of this rebuilding? Are we taking on too much in this moment of rehashing, rebuilding rather than improving or iterating? We are two thirds through this episode. We've talked about the big wins from April. We've talked about the big concerns on my mind right now. Coming up after a quick break, I'm going to talk about the experiments we're kicking off in May that I am optimistic about. I hope Bear fruit. I think they're exciting. You can get involved. I'll tell you all about them after one last quick break. If you work with clients and you're tired of hearing that the only way to grow is to hire people or work with AI, you should check out Grow Without Hiring, a podcast by my good friend Ken Yarmish. Ken bootstrapped his professional services business to $5 million per year as a solopreneur and he did it by systematically making small changes like pitching six figure deals instead of five figure deals, something he has an episode about. I've learned a lot from Ken, and he's worked with some big names. People like Matt Barker, Nasheen Chen and Laura Acosta trust Ken to sharpen their offers and scale their businesses with systems, and this podcast is his playbook. Every episode is short and tactical, like my Voice Memo episodes where Ken breaks down how real solo operators engineer their businesses. The sales, the delivery, the offers, the systems all in a market that's splitting between big winners and everyone else. The show is easy to binge. You listen to one episode and find yourself sweeping through the whole catalog. I recommend starting with the episode TIT Algorithm Proof Marketing, then hit follow so new ones land automatically. Search for Grow without hiring in your favorite podcast app or go to GWH FM. That's growwithouthiring GWH FM study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC
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homestretch here let's talk about the experiments that we're kicking off in May. We are team building. It's taken me so long to come around to this, but we had a call this morning as I'm recording this, and on that call they were six members of the Creator Science team. Not everybody, but the more core everyday team. And two of those are brand new to the Creator Science team. So we're team building over here and I'll tell you, it took me a long time to come around to this. My last job in tech in 2017, I had really about six direct reports, but at one point that was as high as almost 20. And I didn't love the experience of leading a team. When I was at spi, I was in a leadership position. I didn't love the experience of leading a team. And so part of building my own business was this idea that I don't need to build a team. I can just do things on my own. But the joke that I keep telling, which isn't totally a joke, is, okay. If Mal and I are the only full time employees in this business, then realistically, since our daughter has been born, we have had no full time employees in this business. And that is not sustainable long term. We need people who are helping us move this mission forward. And so, especially with a second on the way, I looked at this and I said, okay, there are two options. I can't do everything I'm doing right now. That means that, number one, I could get smaller. I could do fewer things and try to do them very, very well. But there are some hard decisions that need to come with that. You know, like what gets cut. It would probably be things like Instagram, things like YouTube. New product ideas wouldn't really happen. Just keeping up with the current things on my plate, let alone the book project I want to do, that would be all I had time for. And I really don't think that the example I want to set with this business or with myself as a creator is playing small or playing afraid. I think it's totally fine to be whatever size team that you want if you're doing the things that you want to do. But I look at the projects that I want to do, the things I want to commit to, the things I want to make real, and I can't do all of them on my own. There were two other turning points that finally set me over the edge. And if you've been listening to the podcast recently, you've heard my conversation with Michael Bungay, Stanier, my conversation with Nir Eyal. I was with Nir at an author's retreat, and I listened to all of those people at that retreat talk about their team and what their team was able to do and what it enabled for them. There was no resentment, no complaints. Everybody was really happy to be running teams. And those teams ran from as few as two people to as many as, I think 30 plus one of them had. And when people had members of their team that were great at their job, they just loved working with them. And I've had now several members on my team that I've loved working with because they're really good at what they do. My assistant Izzy, has been with me now for several years. Laura joined later in 2025. I worked with Connor on the channel for a very long time. Rustin, behind the scenes with our video editing, has been doing that for a while. I think I'VE worked with my audio engineer, Adam for probably three or four years at this point. So I've had so much experience now with people who are just great at what they do. And I recognize that it's possible to hire people who are great, who make the team better, who don't make my life worse. You know, it's this weird story that I had in my head that having team members is an obligation, a commitment. I'm bogged down. I have less I can do. But you know what? So is having kids. Having a child. Now I see. Wow. Yeah. The commitment, the obligation, that's all real. All of that is very much true. But I also have so much more meaning in my life. Having a daughter to the point where we're having a second kid. We know it's going to be stressful, it's going to add a lot to our plates, but there's nothing better in our life than our daughter. And so we're having a second. Who knows, maybe we'll have a third one day. We don't know. But that was a real example of, oh, commitment, responsibility. That actually creates a lot of meaning and can be the stuff of life. So why not do that in the business? Why not work towards building a team? We have a lot to figure out yet. Mal and I are still the only full time folks. The folks bringing on the team are coming in on a contract basis to start and, and maybe at some time in the next one to two years, we say, okay, let's flip this. Let's start bringing in people full time, changing the benefits, the design of this. I think all that's on the table now. The business needs to be performing to a degree where that is practical. But bringing people in now is part of what's going to get us there. I hope so. We're really, we're really team building and I'm excited about it. We just hired someone named Ana. Ana wrote a substack essay and it was titled Let me Get this Right. How I'd Help Jay Klaus Prepare His Business for Paternity Leave in six Months if I Was Part of his team. She wrote that as an essay. I don't know how many words this is. I'm gonna guess it's somewhere between 1500 and 2500 words. It was really well written and laid out, and it's a lot of initiative to do that. And so I reached out to her, we talked, and I hired her. She's coming in, she's going to help me prepare the business for maternity leave. In six months. And I'm excited about that. She embodies what I'm looking for, somebody who has a background that is unique and fits what I'm looking for someone who's clearly bold and assertive, which I need because part of delegating is somebody looking at you and saying it looks like you're holding onto this thing that you don't need to be holding onto anymore. Can I have that? Actually give me that. You know, I need someone that's going to pull stuff out of my hands and I think she can be that person. So I'm excited to have somebody in the integrator role on the team. I hired someone named Ritzy. He's going to be a short form specialist for us, short form video specialist. And I'm just excited. I'm excited about what I think we can do now. Of course I'm going to have to figure this out and I'm going to be sharing that along the way here because part of my next six months trying to get ready for having a kid is getting the team more self sufficient, getting myself out of the middle as a bottleneck in a lot of things. And this is the big experiment that we're running for the next six months. But kicking off here in May, another team member, quote unquote, is Tubi. Tubi is the name for our little mascot that maybe you've seen in some of our materials. He hasn't appeared a whole lot in our branding yet, but if you go to like the lab sales page, you'll see little bits of Tubi. Tubi is an illustration of a CRT television with arms and legs and eyes. He has come to represent all of the different uses of AI in the business. So I've been using OpenClaw now since January. I recorded an episode in early February about how I'm using openclaw that has continued. Tubi has a lot of context on me and the business. And it used to be that Tubi was only accessible in Telegram, but now I've connected Tubi to our team. Slack and the rest of the team is working with Tubi. And so it's really interesting to see how they're using Tubi, what they're coming up with. It's helping them think through ideas and, and make show notes for this podcast. You know, some of the lower stakes, gotta have it sort of details that not a lot of people are actually paying super close attention to. They're not differentiators, they're not what moves the needle, but they are Important nonetheless. So all of that goes into experiment number one, building the team. Experiment number two, that we're kicking off in June, technically, but May is the month where rubber is really going to hit the road. I'm working with an outside team to produce a virtual summit in the middle of June. It's going to be June 23rd through the 26th. It's called the Membership Summit. It's three days of just me teaching about memberships. I know the move for a lot of virtual summits is like, let's bring in a bunch of speakers, a bunch of faces, a bunch of names, a bunch of people delivering talks all day for a couple of days and all those people will talk about this and bring in students and attendees. That's not the approach we're taking. I just want to spend more time this year teaching. And so this summit is just me speaking over three days and it's just me teaching. It's teaching about memberships. People who are on the fence are membership curious, who think they might want to start one. This'll be a free 3 day event to help you think about how are you going to start that membership? What would I do if I was starting today? What is available to you, how I would think through it. I'm 100% confident that if you come to that summit, you're going to leave feeling much more equipped to start a membership and that may be all that you want or need. On the back end of that, we are going to introduce a cohort based experience that we're going to run in July around building a membership. I have this great self paced course called Build a Beloved Membership. There's a little bit that I want to update and add to that. We're also going to rerecord it in the current branding, but the material is still dead on. I'm so proud of it. And what we're going to do is we're going to format a live experience around a lot of that material that we're going to run in July. So the idea is, come learn from us in June. If that's all you need, great. It's going to be highly detailed, very actionable and worthwhile. And at the end of that, if you're like, okay, I definitely do want to build a membership and I want someone to walk me through it step by step, then build a beloved membership Live that will run in July will help you to do that. And I'm very excited about that. So keep an eye out for that. Members of the lab can participate in that cohort, that's just how we do things in the lab. If you're in the lab, you get access to all of this. So even if you're a basic member, you'll have access to the buildable of a membership cohort that we run in July, just as you had access to the signature product bootcamp that we ran in December. So you don't have to wait for July to join the lab if you are interested in that. If you're in the lab, you get access to that. But otherwise, keep an eye open for messages from me about the membership summit coming in June. We'd love to see you there. And of course, if you are interested in building a membership, we'd love to see you in that cohort as well. If you're not subscribed to the newsletter, go to creatorscience.com and subscribe to that. That'll make sure that you get all that information. I'm going to make sure that I talk about it here on the podcast as well, but it's worthwhile going to creatorscience.com getting on the newsletter so that you're aware of the membership summit and the cohort we're going to run in July. Big experiment number three that we're kicking off this month is I have identified a new product model that I think is really interesting for the future of education. And, and I found a company that I think is doing it really well and we're partnering with them and we're doing it in the lab first. We're doing this in the middle of May, and that's all I'm gonna say about it for now. Eventually, in late July, August, I'll bring this to the broader Creator Science audience. But we're piloting this. I'm giving folks in the lab the first opportunity. We're gonna build these products together in the lab here in May and June and July. But then in late July, August, I'll bring this to the entire Creator Science audience, assuming it go, it's, it's new, we're learning it, it is AI related. And you know, my take on all things AI related is if you're using it, it should still be uniquely you somehow. Or there's no benefit to using your AI thing versus just Claude, especially because Claude gets better. But a lot of, a lot of people are not bringing enough of themselves to the AI products they're designing. And this I see as the opposite. It's much more your material with a little bit of AI rather than the inverse. So I'm excited about that. I think this is where education is heading. I'm sorry I'm being a little bit vague. If you're in the lab and you did listen all the way to this point, go to the announcement section and see more about that. But I'm very excited about this. I think this could be the future of education or it could not work. We'll see, we'll find out. But I'm optimistic and I'm excited about it. So those are the three big experiments that I'm running here beginning in May. Number one, building out our team. Number two, hosting a membership summit in June with a cohort on the back of that in July and number three, a brand new product model that we're piloting inside the lab first and we'll bring out to the broader Creator Science audience later this summer. If you enjoyed this lightweight retro episode, I'd love to hear from you. Tag me Klaus on X or Instagram, let me know that you're listening. I would love to hear about it. If you're on Spotify, leave a comment. I love the comments on Spotify and I love reviews on Spotify. I love reviews on Apple podcasts. If you're enjoying this, please leave a rating or review. Help us get to that next milestone. I read them all. Thank you to everyone who has taken time to do that along the way. If you want to join the lab and get access to the full length retros like this with my numbers, with all of my wins, all of my concerns, all of my experiments, go to creatorscience.com lab. That's creatorscience. Com lab. There's also a link in the show Notes. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you next week.