← Crickets to Cha-Chings
Crickets to Cha-Chings
202. From $50 to Full-Time: Jay's Print-on-Demand Pivot to Creative Freedom
01:02:36
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- [00:00]
Julie Berninger
Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Crickets to Cha Ching's podcast. I'm Julie Berninger from Gold City Ventures, and we're here with Jay d' Souza from Jay's Way. Welcome, Jay.
- [00:09]
Jay d' Souza
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- [00:11]
Julie Berninger
So first we have to start off. You have a big milestone that you may hit today. It sounds like you're about to maybe cross 125,000 shirts sold on Amazon today. You're selling about 80 a day, is that right?
- [00:21]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah, I'm at 124,022 shirts right now. So, yeah, I'm about to cross that. That's just on Amazon merch alone. And I've got. I probably sold just over. Just over that as well. On Etsy. Yeah. Knocking on wood here, you know. But, yeah, that'd be a great milestone to hit. So looking forward to that.
- [00:41]
Julie Berninger
That'd be a great milestone to hit. Rooting for you. And it's great to know that you have all that experience on Etsy. I know you actually started selling on Etsy first because our audience primarily are Etsy sellers and mostly different digital products. But we have started branching into print on demand recently. Do you sell just shirts or do you sell other items as well on Etsy?
- [01:00]
Jay d' Souza
I do sell a few other items, albeit shirts being, you know, the. The kind of bread and butter. Right. Everyone's going to need a T shirt. Regardless, in your lifetime, you're going to be more likely to buy more T shirts than you will be hoodies from now here on out. Right. It's just the way it works. If a design seems to do well on a T shirt, I'll put it on various other products potentially like that. That makes sense, right? I'm not going to take a T shirt design, for example, and slap it on a mug or something like that, but maybe on a crewneck sweater or on a hoodie or something to that effect. But yeah, mostly T shirts, for sure.
- [01:32]
Julie Berninger
Yeah. I always ask that because I'm curious. On Etsy, sometimes I see, like, the sweatshirts becoming really popular, maybe with a younger demographic or. I know I used to sell in the bachelorette party space and I saw the tanks were really big there. So I'm curious if you have thoughts on what apparel works for kind of different niches or if your experience, you've branched out differently based on that.
- [01:52]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah, I used sell a lot of the next level. So to backtrack, I got into print on demand only because I pretty much needed to exit the toxic corporate life that was working in The IT department at TD bank, which I, I've been a graphic designer by trade for 20 years. And then you know, layoffs came when I was managing the number one publisher of the country in Canada, which was yellow pages at the time, 144 graphic designers that I had a. As direct reports layoffs came. Youngest manager kind of on the echelon. So out the door I am right with no more union behind me, ended up a buddy got me into the IT department at TD and that was like the epitome of stress. So as soon as I had to quit I was you know, self medicating to fall asleep at night because I have to be up at 4 to hit the highway at 5 to get to work by 7 because if I leave 10 minutes late, you know, you're, you're, you're showing up at 20 minutes late for a 12 hour shift to do two more hours home traffic pending. Right. So it was, and, and yeah it was not a good scene because you can't, the stress, you don't decompress until 9 or 10 o' clock at night and then you're already, you know, you don't even have six hours left before you got to be up again. You do that for five years and it'll literally was killing you. So like the stress manifested physically. It's not like I have permanent, you know, bowel issues now that are just, you know, 10 years later, 12, 13 years later. It's just what it is. So stress really is truly is a silent killer. So please, if you're feeling like you're any kind of which way, talk to somebody, get sorted because that stuff is no joke. Sorry, a little bit of a tangent there but it's super important, very relatable.
- [03:40]
Julie Berninger
I bet you there's so many people that are like, yep, that raising their hand, that's me right now, you know, making it work, burning themselves out at all the ends.
- [03:47]
Jay d' Souza
It's not a unique story. And just because somebody else has, you know, more stress than you or is got more going on than you, doesn't negate how severe yours is. Just because it's not as bad as or what you think is bad as somebody else's. Right? So don't, you know, try to just keep rolling with the punches and get out of that rut. But yeah, getting out of there, I ended up just putting out. I had to quit and then promised my wife, you know, there'll be food in the fridge and a roof overhead. Not sure how, what we're going to do but it is what it is. And then started putting out freelance graphic design ads for logos and all that stuff. T shirt designs. Because I did dabble airbrush and used to sell T shirts in high school, you know, out of a backpack kind of thing on my, on my BMX bike. Got hired by a dude in my neighborhood who was using a roll and plotter to cut out vinyl, which way before crickets or cry cuts were a thing, your desktop ones now. And he started making things. Asking. He basically asked me to make designs for him. So that's how I kind of got into it. And it's just been, you know, probably the best decision I could have ever made at the end of the day. But yeah, I've been in print on demand for a very long time that way because ultimately organically fell into that because he started paying me 15 a design at that point. And then I just switched flip, flip the switch here because it was like, wait a minute, I'm, he's making 15 or I'm making 15 one time and he's selling that design on a, you know, shirt over and over and over. Right. But so I flipped that to a three dollar royalty and then a five dollar royalty on, on hoodies and stuff. And at the end of the day, you know, every shirt he sold, I started making way more money than that one time. $15. But all that to say yes, we sold a ton of stuff. I opened up my Etsy shop. He ended up fulfilling for me at that point because that's just what he did. So I was creating my own designs, my own shop, and he was fulfilling for me. So enter pod really that way. But the flowy tanks from Next Level and Bella and Canvas were the two, you know, to circle back to your, your question, were the, were the two big ones that I think worked really well for a bridal niche, specifically bachelorette stuff? That stuff was huge, you know, 12, 13 years ago and it's still huge now. You know, there's so many more aesthetics that are, you know, emerging that way. And I find a lot of the design has taken kind of like a step back. Like we're going more to the, the rudimentary designs, right? The organic kind of hand drawn doodle aesthetic. Seeing a lot of that even in the digitals. I'm sure that you're, you know, you're seeing that emerge over the last like year and a half now. But so many things I feel like, you know, depends on absolutely the demographic I sell. I used to sell only Gildan 5000. They outsold 3001 Bellas because it's just what, you know, the niche market wanted, that whoever I was designing for. Right. So that's ultimately, too. It's not so much about what you want to sell. It's more about the customer that you're selling it to. Right. And that kind of, you know, segues into, you know, you're not designing for everybody. You're designing to a specific, ideal customer. And if you can start thinking that way, then everything else falls into place. Right. You'll know what kind of, you know, garment they like, the feel of it, what kind of designs that work best with that garment, that also satiate that kind of. That need to belong for that customer. Right. We all want to belong. So being able to, you know, identify not only the designs, but even the vehicle that you're delivering that emotional message with, I think is huge. But, yeah, I could go on for days on this stuff.
- [07:22]
Julie Berninger
No. And that's tip number one. We're going to transition into it. But I just want to kind of double click on what you were saying. It's not so much what you want to sell, it's what the customer wants to buy. And I think everything is what the customer wants to buy. And that's the number one, I would say, mistake or disappointment. I see people as they're coming into this type of world because maybe they have it in their mind or their heart that they want to make this certain type of product or this type of thing. And for a lot of people, this is a creative outlet, and this is something that they can be passionate and excited about on top of work. But when you're in a situation like you were, where you're backed against a corner and you need to put food on the table, and this is literally your livelihood, this is not like a hobby thing. This is like, hey, I need to make this into a business. And you run a business, and you run a hobby very, very differently. And it's not really about your heart. It's about what is actually going to result in sales. So I think for everybody, deciding where they fall on that kind of spectrum is important, because it's totally cool if you are doing this more as art and you're like, I just want to make these cool fish T shirts because I'm passionate about fish, and I love going to the aquarium, and that's me. But if that's not. But don't, like, get upset if it doesn't make a lot of money, because there's not a lot of demand for It. But if you want to, if you want to make money, then treat it like a business from the beginning and use the research in your brain and kind of of that piece that we're going to get into it to make it happen. So I thought that was just like a really very good way of saying it. It's, this is a business and not a hobby.
- [08:46]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there. And one of the things is, like, I fell into that trap too. I, you know, when we were talking about putting your own kind of needs and whatever you think, your thoughts aside, it's impossible to do that in the beginning, I think, until you get kind of like that proverbial slap in the face. Because I was designing what I thought people wanted in the beginning and nobody wanted it. I'm a graphic designer. I know what looks good by all, you know, design standards, but it's not what the customer wanted at the end of the day. So this romanticism, this romantic idea that just because you are going to create something beautiful doesn't mean that anybody actually gives a crap about it or will help, you know, pay for it right at the end of the day. So I think, you know, that was a hard one to kind of compartmentalize. But if you want to have a hobby, like, nobody's going to buy Jay's brand right at. In the beginning, you got to figure out what it is if you want to, you know, actually make money and sell, like you said, what, you're back against the wall kind of thing. But you got to come out swinging, and that is to do what the market wants. If you have all the time and a financial cushion, go ahead, build a brand. It's going to cost you thousands of marketing, but it's absolutely do it do doable and absolutely worthwhile. But when you want to make sales, you got to do what the data says.
- [10:05]
Julie Berninger
Yeah. Matt brings us to tip one. So you said don't design for the general public. So what does that mean to you?
- [10:10]
Jay d' Souza
It's, you know, an old adage. I don't know where it came from, but like marketing 101 courses, like years ago when I was studying graphic design. But if you try to sell something to everybody, you end up selling nothing to anybody. And that's just the kind of same. Well, niche stores work. Niche stores work. Yeah, but at the end of the day, they work because you're going to have to list thousands and thousands of items you sell digital shops, ideally, you're somewhat even niched in that realm. A Little bit. You have more of a target audience. You're not making everything for everybody, but you're going to still probably have a lot more products than you need with print on demand. It's like walking into John Deere. You're not going there to buy, you know, I don't know, Nike running shoes, right? You're not going there for, you know, sports equipment or things. If you said you were an athlete too, right? You're not going there for your, for your, all your athletic gear. You're also not going into Bass Pro Shops to buy quilts. You know what I mean? So, like, if you're going to try to appeal to people you're setting yourself up for, just, it's not that you can't succeed. And there's a misconception there that I, you know, general stores don't work. They can work, but it's a lot more work. You're going to need to add a zero on the end. Like you can have 250 designs in a, in a niche shop that will sell well. You're going to have to add a zero on the end of that and have 2,500 listings if you're going to run a general store because you're going to have to keep chasing trends. You're going to. It's so much harder to get that customer in the door the first time than it is the second time. So if you can have them come back and know what to expect and buy more, it's going to be easier on you, your marketing budget. It's going to be easier on everything. It's also going to be so much easier for you to design because you're in the same headspace. Ideally, and this isn't always the case, but ideally, if you're super stuck, you know, you can start with your own interests. If, you know, finding a niche is like the big hard one, right, that everyone seems to have a problem with. And it's not about finding one, it's about actually choosing one. And I do have, I'll share with you post, like post recording here. But I have a GPT that I created. It's like a niche. It's called the Niche doctor. But it's literally going to pull out everything out of you and give you the niche that you, you know, something that is going to resonate with you the end of the day, you know, what is something in a room of 10 people that you maybe know more about than everybody else? Or what's something your friends say you can't shut up about at the end of the day. Right. Like, things like that. It's so. We just put so much emphasis on. On finding the right one. And like, any single one of them can be the right one. It's ultimately, you know what, what, you're going to have fun and not lose that passion for designing for. Because if you go general store, you are going to get overwhelmed. I promise you, at some point, you're going to be overwhelmed. You're going to get burnt out. And burnout is the opposite of, you know, progress. Right. It's. It's going to be so much more difficult to want to come back. You're going to end up resenting what you're doing. You're going to end up rushing through your designs because somebody told you you needed to hit, you know, 90 designs at the end of the month. So three a day, every day for 90 days. Like, you know, these 100 design things. If you're generating with AI, that's one thing, but just because it's created with AI doesn't mean it's an awesome design either. So, yeah, I encourage people to pump the brakes and do something they enjoy because, yes, there's an element of needing to get this done, but at the same time, if you hate what you're doing, it's going to show in your work and your customers are going to see right through what you're doing. And imposter syndrome is a thing, but if you're truly an imposter, there's no way to hide that either.
- [13:48]
Julie Berninger
Yeah, I think that's an interesting kind of caveat to the advice of, okay, well, you don't just want to sell. Like, I was giving the example of you love fish and going to the aquarium, so you're going to make fish T shirts. You don't want to lose the entire element of, like, doing something that you like at all, because then you lose your motivation. And I know you're really big on mindset, so you don't want to lose your ability. Like, you're picking something that you just really don't care about at all. Zero cares. And then you're just done with it. Like, there's got to be some element either something you're familiar with. Maybe you have a background in a certain thing. Like, for example, I have a friend that she's getting started in the digital product space. She's been a dental hygienist, a realtor, and she knows a lot about the sport judo. And I'm like, all right, well, there. There's Three starting points of niches that maybe you have a competitive advantage in that you could lean into. You don't have to, but you don't. You don't want to go create. You could do seasonal if you wanted, but you don't want to get totally into a niche that you just don't care about and it makes you give up.
- [14:42]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah. Because what's, what's worse than designing stuff you care about or that you don't care about? The only thing worse is actually not making sales because your designs have suffered, because you put prioritize, you know, quality, because you watch some YouTube video and we all, we're all guilty of it, saying, you know, top five niches of the week kind of thing. Right. Or, or whatever, you know, like the hot niche of this quarter. You know, if, if you're not vested, then it's going to come through and then you're going to be stuck spinning your wheels. I promise you, in a year from now, you're going to be in the same place you already know you were today.
- [15:14]
Julie Berninger
Yep. So I'm just curious, from a tech stack perspective, when you are not designing for the general public, what are you using? Like, a lot of people here, for example, in our community, they're familiar with Erank. We have everbee, Insight Factory. There are other tools that they're using for that. Is that what you're talking about? Like you're using data from those tools or where do you typically get your resources? It sounded like ChatGPT was a big one for you, too.
- [15:39]
Jay d' Souza
I do use ChatGPT more and more now, only because it's. I mean, yeah, I've created GPTs that do deep research and. But they're also trained on, you know, me. Right. So everything that I've done over years, I, I dump in there. And then people will even tell you it sounds like me when they're reading it. They can hear my voice. So that's the kind of, you know, I want it to be authentic, actually, that way. But Erank and Everbee, Absolutely. I'll use both. I am a Chrome extension. You know, don't want to curse on here, but yeah, I love Chrome Extensions. Right. So that's the kind of thing. So anything that I can not have to bounce off of the window that I'm in, I can do it quickly and reliably and, you know, but you can also do it free. I use Insight Factory a little bit, actually, for our trend reports that I'll pop up a couple of, you know, screenshots of That a little later. But Insight Factory is a good one. It's just usually out of reach for most because it's not cheap. It's probably one of the most expensive tools out there, but it has a lot to offer. I just my two favorites for sure erank and ever be they're economically in a place where everyone can leverage them. You know, the lower tiers are, are super affordable but at the same same breath like you can do what, what these tools do and don't feel like you need them. They just help you get that data, you know, accrued a little faster. It's all information you can find yourself. And the first thing I would do is like, you know, find a design that I think is doing okay maybe with the Chrome extension or not. That looks cool idea. Doing some research now. You know, does it have any favorites? Scroll to the bottom. Does it have any favorites? If it does great, you can look at the reviews. Has it sold yet? You know there's, there's ways to tell how long and right beside the the favorites at the very bottom of the listing it'll say when it was listed and that could be when it was or when it was initially listed. So you know there's a, that is a bit of a caveat there but any of the tools are just going to tell you the same thing really so. But they do it a lot, you know, in a way more condensed form. But I like using them that way. I don't put too much stock. Like so many people avoid competition, right? Or saturation. Oh, there's so much competition. Well, competition to me validates demand and I hear people like afraid of saturation. That just means you're afraid of competition. You're afraid of going after big money. That's what I hear. My top selling stuff is like cat centric birthday stuff and well it was tacos but now it's more like fishing and hunting like massive. Massive. Right. So I'm not you know, selling only to ICU nurses who like drinking coffee and watching horror movies at night. That is an ideal customer though in a grand scheme of a healthcare niche. But that's, I'm not making like a you know, designs only for that kind of thing. But yeah, apart from that as far as tech stack goes, like on the design tip it would be the Adobe Illustrator is kind of what I default to. But more and more Kittl with their pen tools are taking all the best stuff, parts of I think the Adobe suite and slowly implementing them. But they're not doing it with all the extra the Adobe Creative Suite has. So because there's like eight different ways to create something or to get to the same, you know, mean eight different means to the same end in the Adobe Suites. And it just, it's like, why do you need that many ways, right? Ultimately. But yeah, kittleworks. I'm liking Ideogram and Playground more and more. Those are probably the two as far as AI centric stuff goes. But if there's anything. So I'll yeah, probably use AI for some of the design work and then I lay out a lot of the text myself. I just prefer to do that. I'm a graphic designer. I, you know, typography is number one. You can have images on shirts all day, but the text alone, like a single word on a shirt has and will always sell. So I mean that's one thing that I think most people overlook too is typography. But that's all stuff I, I love teaching too now, so it's great. But yeah, that's about it for the tech stack. I don't go too heavy or too.
- [19:44]
Julie Berninger
Deep, I don't think and I'm curious when and I think that's a good point to mention that the tools like the everbee Eranks inside factory, they're aggregating data, they're saving you time. But you could if you're like, hey, I'm literally just starting out. I think erank basic is $6 a month or something. But if you like don't want to pay that, I think you should pay that for most people. But if you don't want to get a tool, you can do the manual browse on Etsy. And to your point it's all, all that data is there. You just have to keep going into a listing, going back, going into a listing, going back. But that is a way you can do it.
- [20:14]
Jay d' Souza
The nice thing with Erank too on that point or and ever be but Erank at that price point is too is they got the, you know the, the listing calculators right. So when you're pushing from your POD or however you're doing it, I typically list in Etsy and then sync to my POD after the fact. It's just easier and faster. But the, there's always calculators in those POD companies like imprintify for example, you can now set your. Which is really cool actually. You can set your margin across all products. So if you add new products it's going to set that margin across your entire catalog. So let's say it's a 40% margin. It'll push whatever you're sending to your shop with that 40% margin accounted for. But what it doesn't account for all the time is all the Etsy FEES and the 20 cent listing fees and certain things like that or the offsite ad feeds. Right. So those listing tools like in the Everbees and Eranks, they have the calculators in there that'll kind of break that down for you so you can ultimately be able to run a significant sale. My, my, you know, golden rule has always been I want to make a 35% profit while having a 35% off sale running. Right. So those are the kind of numbers I work with. So people are like, what, what do you, you know. But yeah, you're not just selling a T shirt, you're selling the emotion. Right. So if it hits, it's going to hit. I sell, you know, $45T shirts all day. And that's why I think it's just easier. But if you are targeting, you know, the specific niche. Right. So like 27. Sorry, that was Canadian. So like 27 US to, with a $6 shipping, 33 US, 34 US dollars, no problem. And then, you know, that's. Yeah, I mean you're talking real profit margins. I won't make less than US$10 a T shirt, that's for sure. But the tools will get you there and keep you there and help you faster so that you're not. Because people always, you know, underpriced or neglect to take into account some of the fees. And it's not to say that Etsy's fees are exorbitant because they're still the cheapest out there on any marketplace. I sell on Amazon. If you're ever, any of you ever sold on Seller Central, you'll know that those fees are like crazy high, comparably, comparatively speaking. Six and a half percent. Not bad right now. You can get your six and a half percent back right now too, I think till another week or so. So I mean, it's not a bad time to be, you know, sharing your share and save links anyway.
- [22:37]
Julie Berninger
But if you do social, I don't know, do you do social?
- [22:41]
Jay d' Souza
A little bit. I'm terrible at it in terms of I don't suck at it, I just suck at being consistent with it. Right.
- [22:47]
Julie Berninger
So yeah, yeah, it's, it's definitely. You have to dedicate to it. So I'm just curious, I want to pause on something you said. So you said you try to do a 30% profit margin, but 35 when you're off sale. So.
- [22:58]
Jay d' Souza
So you're saying no, 35 and 35. So I wanna make a 35% margin while running a 35% off sale.
- [23:03]
Julie Berninger
Oh, you run sales the whole time on 35% off?
- [23:07]
Jay d' Souza
No, not the whole time, but when I do, I'm still making a 35% margin.
- [23:11]
Julie Berninger
I see what you're saying. Okay, got it, got it, got it. Okay. Yeah. And this is someone I wanna double click into this. Cause we're coming from the digital product space, a lot of us are starting to sell in pod. I know people, some people are familiar with those calculators. They might even be free in one of the tools. I forget which plan. Do you know if they're free for both of those tools or.
- [23:28]
Jay d' Souza
I would have to.
- [23:30]
Julie Berninger
Yeah, they might be. I'm not sure what tier they're in. But those tools are important that you mentioned the margins calculator and also figuring out this out, because in the digital product space, not to say you don't have to figure out the margins, but it's not the same. It's like your time that you're spending, you're not having to owe money to the drop shipper who's shipping the actual product for you.
- [23:50]
Jay d' Souza
Correct.
- [23:52]
Julie Berninger
So good to note that. Okay, so we talked about designing for the general public. Now the next tip was you're designing an emotion, emotional experience, I think, or maybe use another word. Can you, can you describe what you mean by that?
- [24:03]
Jay d' Souza
What you're selling is when somebody give. So ultimately, you know, anything that's giftable is a massive bonus. Right. So in the digital space, you're typically selling stuff, you know, that would be for a DIY or for somebody who is then selling their items with the, you know, digitals that you've, you've created and sold to them. Right. So you're selling to sellers in some capacity on the podn. You're selling ultimately giftables or something. Ideally giftables, but at least you're selling to the end user. Somebody's going to be wearing it. So you want somebody to hold up that T shirt, for example, and the emotion that comes over their face, the shock, the awe, the laughter, that's what you're selling. Then they're going to turn around. And for you, those of you only listening and not seeing, I'm making all the motions here, I'm holding a shirt up and I'm turning it around. But then when they show everybody in the room at that birthday party or at that Bachelorette or whatever the case is, right? Or, you know, that milestone kind of thing in life, the laughter you get from the crowd in the room or when you're wearing that funny shirt about our drooling Great Dane to the dog park and you get three other, you know, big dog breed with drool hanging out, owners laughing at you, right? That's what you're selling. The vehicle, which is the shirt it's printed on, or whatever product it's printed on matters so much less than the emotion you're selling. You, like, think of any of you out there that are moms, you know, buying stuff for your teenage kids or whatever it is every time you give them, you know, you. You're waiting and hanging on every last ounce of their reaction, hoping that they're going to appreciate it, right? Especially in those teenage years where seems like you can only fail at some point, but like, you want them to be like, oh my God, this is awesome. And they don't care what is printed on. It's the message, right? Unless. Unless you're buying a sweater or something that they've always wanted. But like, ultimately, like anything funny like that, you're selling the emotion. You know, if you're in the activism kind of niches, you're selling that emotional resonance that, you know, people want to be part of something, so make it easy for them, right? They want to identify with people. They want to get the laughter. They want to be parts of, you know, the dog park crew in the morning or the people that are going to go march to protest something on Saturday afternoon or, you know, you're maybe a night shift nurse, I was kind of mentioned that earlier, but maybe you're a night shift nurse and you, you know, you're kind of a little bit edgier and, you know, you, you just have this kind of like, subculture of night shift workers that kind of gets that emotional message. It's on the shirt. And you get a smirk out of them because they're maybe a little too, too, too much pride, like a young to. To maybe, you know, laugh out loud, but you're getting that smirk out of them, right? Those are the things that, that really and truly sell, and those are the things that everybody can identify with. It's less about the T shirt, it's less about, you know, the Tumblr. It's more about what's on it than anything else. If you even think back to things you bought, right, like, you'll more likely to remember how it made you feel when you opened it or how someone's reaction was than what the product itself actually was. I think that's a part that most people miss.
- [27:20]
Julie Berninger
I never really thought about the experience of opening the gift in the room, so I'm glad you mentioned that. But that's huge because right now I have little kids, so we're in the birthday party stage and you do not open gifts during a birthday party because it's like chaos with you know, 30 little kids running around.
- [27:33]
Jay d' Souza
Sure.
- [27:33]
Julie Berninger
But in, in the US it's considered rude if you're at like a family, a small family gathering and your mom bought you or your husband or whatever a shirt and he's not going to open it up in front of her and give her the reaction that she wanted, you know, So I think you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter the quality of the shirt, it doesn't matter whether it really fits them or fits. That's like you're overthinking it too much. Like what is actually on this shirt and then the moment of it's opened, the gift giver's happy, everyone's laughing, the receiver's happy. That's, that's what it's going for. So if you're designing the, I guess the message you're saying is like design for that moment first and foremost.
- [28:12]
Jay d' Souza
You got it. Yeah. Not just you know, Happy Halloween or Merry Christmas. Nobody's wearing that. If, if it, if you can tie in the Halloween or the niche, especially like Summerween now is massive. But if you could tie that into your niche a little bit, you're gonna hit the nail on the head. My wife just listed four Halloween centric large breed dog shirts, dog designs, you know, making them kind of look like zombies or whatever. She listed four yesterday and one sold like last night before bed, you know what I mean? Like that's the kind of thing the demand is there because her customers have favorited her shop and they're coming back and weekly she's trained them to come back because she just designs what they want. And if, you know, if you guys are dog owners out there, it's you know, people will spend and endless. It's like vanity too, right? Like a lot of women specifically on Etsy will buy anything or like if you're in the bridal niche, you guys know how much women will spend on that stuff, right? It's not so much the guys in that sense. It's you know, the women that there's, there's no cap on, on what they will spend. And if you're hitting if you're same with the dog owner like at least that one I can kind of relate to or like the fishing because I fish. There's no amount of money or limit to how many lures I'm going to buy. Right. If you got a new one that looks cool, I'm buying it. Just be. Just because I've got 12 more doesn't mean I'm not going to buy another one. If you got that, you know, three different Great Dane shirts but then now you, you don't have a Halloween looking one, well that's cool. Now I'm going to wear that from now till at least the end of October. You know, like there's never going to be a time where you can't offer something new to a niche market. It's just not a thing. Versus like if you were selling a little bit of everything to a little bit of or trying to sell everything to everybody. You know, it's like walking into Michael's if you're into the quilt type stuff or yarn store was one example and then all of a sudden, you know, you had to walk past a bunch of fishing rods, right? And those fishing rods would be the last 30 fishing style designs you made in that general store you've now turned into a Walmart. And it just depends on which side of the building you entered on as to what you see first. Right. You know what I mean? Like it's, you don't go to Michael's for fishing rods. You know, that's the kind of thing. So you're not only confusing the customer if you start adding all of these things, but you're also making it really difficult on the algorithm. The algorithm's job is to get you more sales because if you sell more than Etsy makes more, right? Or Amazon makes more, that's just the nature of the beast. And they actually want to spend your ad dollars if you're advertising everything in a way that is profitable for you also because if you're not making money then you're not going to spend as much ad sped, you know, which is also going to make the platform not make as much money. Right. Let the algorithm do its job and let them find you the ideal customers for your niche. I think, you know, generalizing is just, I think killing giving yourself a harder overall long term battle.
- [31:08]
Julie Berninger
So when, and I just want to go back, circle back when you were saying I don't necessarily design for the ICU Horror Night Nurse piece, I'll go after some of the bigger categories like Fishing, which some people are afraid of because there's so much competition, which I see a lot. And a lot of people, they like clicking beginner friendly and inside factory. And I think maybe for a lot of new people that can be motivating to kind of get a sale. But it's a good point. You know, if you want to make a lot of money, then you need to go after some real big prizes and some more competitive categories where you're, you're going to get more buyers coming in with dollars and you can turn them into sales. I'm just curious though, that doesn't mean that you're not finding those long tail keywords though. You're still doing that. It's just that what you mean is you're just not afraid, you're not afraid to enter a niche that is a low competitive. Is that what you mean?
- [31:58]
Jay d' Souza
Absolutely. Yeah. So that's not to say I won't make, you know, a night shift ICU nurse shirt. It's that I'm not going to stay away from healthcare and I'm not going to only target healthcare worker, you know, or I'm a nurse, get a little more specific on that. But the nurse alone, there's going to be something in that design that you can make unique and it's not just about saying nurse, I'm not afraid to do that stuff. But I think, you know, it's easier for everybody if you can kind of niche down a little bit. But you don't want to be making the nurse shirts and targeting teachers in the same shop. To me it just seems like, you know, you're confusing things that way. But yeah, no, I, I go after the big niches for sure. But then define your ideal customers within, if that makes sense. Like you're not just making fitness shirts or yoga enthusiast shirts. Right. That's kind of like the target audience. Then within that you've got your niche, which is yoga. So instead of fitness now you've got your, you know, your niche market, which is yoga. And then within that you've got the 20 year old Instagrammer who's doing downward dog poses or whatever they are on, on a hilltop at sunset or sunrise. Then you've got a 45 year old who might be new to yoga, who's just trying to stay limber or maintain some kind of, you know, health in a different way because you know, you hit 40 and you wake up and your back hurts now. And then you've got also potentially a 75 year old woman who had a knee replacement who is doing yoga to maintain some kind of, you know, to stay a little bit more limber. Right. So those are three very different ideal customers. But like you're not for sure not going to be able to sell the same design for this Instagrammer that you would to the 75 year old grandma who just got the knee replacement. Does that make sense?
- [33:42]
Julie Berninger
Yep, that does make sense. So I just wanted to, to circle back on that and I think that proves true that everyone has their own way of doing things because there are some people that say only long tail only. And then there's other people like you or stay away from high competition categories. And there's you is like, don't stay away from that necessarily. And I had experience with that too. Just I started in the bachelorette niche. When I looked on E Rank, everything was red, red, red, red across if anyone knows the keyword tool. But there just were so many people looking for bachelorette that it didn't always matter. And I think that that can be confusing when you're just starting out. Like, wait, you're telling me to use this tool, but then I'm allowed to pick the red ones? Like, well, it depends. Yeah, sometimes.
- [34:19]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah. So competition, ultimately I think it's a bad choice of word because they label it competition. It's just the amount of listings competition would be if they were all selling. Right. And they're not all selling. So like 80% of them, arguably the 80 Pareto principle. Right? 80, 20 rule. 80% of them are probably terrible and will never sell. So, you know, ultimately I think a Fair number is 20% of that number is potentially actual competition. And it's not to say only use the big heavy hitting keywords, but they're big to cast a wider net. But then you also want to have a couple of long tail, more specific keywords. I think for sure to speak more to the design that you're creating. The goal with the super broad keywords is to remember that most people on Etsy are buying our women, but also that they're buying gifts for other people like you. We were talking just before we hit record, like you buy, you buy everything yourself. You don't let your, your partner by a damn thing. Right. It's all you. So that's.
- [35:14]
Julie Berninger
And yes. And when he does, sometimes he gives me funny stuff, but I'm like, okay, he, he bought me.
- [35:20]
Jay d' Souza
You're never going to use it.
- [35:21]
Julie Berninger
Yeah, he bought me some sort of shirt. It was like, oh, like raising my husband is exhausting or something. Like my husband As a child, I'm like, you think I want to. I'm going to wear this shirt. And I actually wore it. I play like adult field hockey. Not now, I'm pregnant, but I did last year. And the people, they thought it was funny, like, when I wore it, they're like, that's hilarious. And I'm like, that's also not advertising my husband's best qualities. Okay. Raising my husband is exhausting, but it was hilarious. So, yeah, that's what I mean. I don't let him buy. Sometimes he buys things that are funny, but I'm like, I'm not actually going to wear this. But to your point, though, it's more about he like bought it for that, like the, the joke of it versus you're actually going to wear this shirt. This makes sense for you to wear it in your daily life.
- [36:00]
Jay d' Souza
That's great that you have that specific experience. Like, that is hitting the nail on the head right there. But at the same time, it's like, remember that now, like you had said, you, you do what call it 99% of the shopping, right? So, yeah, if he's fishing like he is, you were saying he's on a fishing trip. Now, you wouldn't know what specific thing to buy him unless you found something that was like just this broad, overarching fisherman shirt, for example. Funny fisherman shirt. That might be something you search for until you start to see things and you're, you know, now browsing in a shop that has a bunch of fishing stuff, something then might click that you might, you know, recognize or have seen him, you know what he's spoken about or have seen him where before or something similar. Right? That's when it gets a little more specific. Then you're like, oh, wait, yeah, he's, he's, he actually likes bass fishing. Now, it's not just funny fishing shirt. Now it's funny bass fishing shirt. Or, you know, for big water, small water, salt water, fresh water, you know, those are the things that you will eventually, inevitably want to also add so that you can nail down, you know, that particular ideal customer. Because I'll tell you that a freshwater bass trophy bass fishing fisher person is very different from, you know, a deep sea marlin fisher fisherman or fisherwoman. Right? Completely. Two ideal, different, ideal customers. So you don't want to just have only the big keywords. You need to specifically identify those ideal customers, for sure. But the big keywords are what draw in the people who are buying the gifts. And I think that is also probably the bulk of Shoppers on Etsy.
- [37:36]
Julie Berninger
That's such good advice. And I love the idea of trying to get in the mindset of the person shopping. What do they know? What don't they know? Like, I don't fish myself, so there's a certain limit to what I know that I'm not going to type in. But I might know that he's doing bass fishing or he's doing fly fishing or whatever. Like the main keyword is. So I'll. I'll know to type in those things. And then what if what I see resonates with it, then I'm going to decide to click into it or not. So I think that's smart. Like, do you mentally map whenever you make a new listing? Are you mentally kind of doing that? Do you have a process like a spreadsheet you do it in or do you just do it mentally?
- [38:09]
Jay d' Souza
I'm so right brain, left handed, chaotic artist. So mine is like my mental map is literally just a. My Illustrator board or my kiddle board or wherever I am happen to be is just kind of like this empty space in the middle and I've got all my inspiration around it, right? It's just like a messy scrapbook. So that's kind of what it is. And then I'll segment parts. So I might do like, I'll throw all the bass fishing stuff over here, all the saltwater fishing stuff over here, all the pike or walleye down here, because it's kind of the same habitat for the most part, you know, different things like that. And then I'll spread them around and then I'll kind of like, you know, kind of draw some inspiration things like that from there. But yeah, it's surprisingly chaotic. But I always like to say that it's organized chaos. That's all right if, if that makes, you know, makes sense. And I think that's also okay. Don't feel like you have to have everything sorted out because keeping everything somewhat organized is better than, you know, having everything organized in so many subfolders or whatever it is that you forget where they are. Because I've tried to do that and I'm like, I have no idea where I put it. So then you start doing searches for your stuff on your hard drive and I'm like, you just have no idea, right? Or all the command Fs on your files to find the word you were looking for. Where, where is that now? Because there's so many subfolders, right? So keeping things like top of mind for you will also make it easier for you from an artistic kind of creativity element too. You know, the creative perspective can get stifled if you're too organized at the same time. And you never want to, you know, stifle creativity, especially if it's something that you struggle to have. Right. So you just want to kind of let it flourish, if that makes sense.
- [39:51]
Julie Berninger
Let it flow vibes, as they say.
- [39:53]
Jay d' Souza
Now you got it. Thousand percent.
- [39:56]
Julie Berninger
So, okay, we have the five kind of rapid fire hidden gems tips we want to get into. And I know you might do a little screen sharing too. So if you're listening to the podcast, we have a YouTube. We're going to link to it below where you could, if you want to catch the visuals, you could do it there. But Jay pulled a couple. So the first one that you said, Summerween crossover designs. I'm very curious about it.
- [40:18]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah. So I'll just share really quick here. But Summerween, so people have an idea of what it is specifically. So window, let's go here, share. Hopefully you can share. See that looks good. So Summerween is just crossing kind of like summer and Halloween. So there's a lot of like anticipating Halloween. My wife and I are massive Halloween fans, or were anyway, especially in Ontario, Canada before we moved down to Belize here. But so ultimately all summer we're just gearing up for fall because Halloween's coming and we would, we would be the ones hosting the parties and doing all the things and making. We don't have kids, but I used to build facades out of wood for like the haunted house kind of thing. So those things cost money and we would, so we would spend accordingly throughout the summer so that it wasn't one big financial hit. Even though we always went over budget anyway. But you know, kind of mixing this stuff here, so what you're seeing, you know, you got like Mike Myers there sitting in a. Obviously don't use anything that would be considered IP infringement, but you know, mixing with the, the summer vibes, right. You're on vacation, sitting in an inner tube, you got flowing pumpkins. The goose on the loose has been on fire for a year plus. Right. Maybe, maybe even closer to a year and a half now. They're all Halloween centric. My mother in law had a, one of those cast stone or cement geese that would sit on her porch and she would literally dress them up every year as the seasons change. All the funny things like this. Right. But I, you know, I wouldn't hesitate to try adding the words resurfaced again. Gingham. But it's it's more of like the, it's just ultimately a Czech, Czech kind of style pattern. Like a, think like picnic, picnic kind of blanket or picnic, you know, picnic basket esthetic, like a red and white or any really checkered kind of pattern there. But like. Yeah, just mixing this with anything. So my wife, for example, I didn't have it in here because she just listed them yesterday, but she created like half zombie large breed dogs that were kind of cartoony. Right. So it's not like scary or disgusting, but they're still kind of cute zombie dogs. Right. So super funny if you're in a particular dog niche. Right. The other one that I would say are I gotta back way up here. But oysters is huge. So everybody's been doing the fisherman aesthetic. Sardines, everything, right. Red, white and blue. Through Pinterest, oysters have been on fire. And it's kind of like this, this, this shift with the young mothers wanting to do the champagne mimosa, brunch type thing. And it seems like that's what's seeming seemingly surging now. And it's the same kind of aesthetics. You've got the reds, the whites, the navies very much this organic kind of hand drawn element that we've seen a lot of. Right. With the, the doodles and that sort of thing. Relatively speaking, simple design. Right. Like we're almost edging on the gingham idea here. We got the pinstripes, but you know, you could. A lighter color blue in the background is a crosshatch. That's going to be the next evolution. There's kind of an illusion to it here, a little bit of a, you know, a graph kind of checkered element here. But they're, you know, hand drawn oysters. Nothing is like super perfect or polished. You're choosing fonts that look the part. So you're not using a, a font that looks, you know, like a Times New Roman or a Helvetica that looks like really professional or polished. You're using something that speaks to the hand drawn element of the design as well. Again, that's part of typography, right. Is understanding the artistic elements and the emotions that you evoke when you use a specific font. But I've got a whole breakdown here. So we're looking at their TikTok for you page would be Montessori chaos, hot mess mom. You know, cottage core recipes and neutral home hacks. Ivan, four words will be bougie, sundress, unfiltered and feral. Looking at 25 to 35. Right. So these are the kinds of things that we would potentially look at these right from the. My trend reports for July here. But you know, she's got a toddler, maybe two, capsule wardrobe and a group chat titled Moms who day drink, right, with. With class, their friends, right, Just to get out that kind of thing. And I go right down into it. But you know, some brand pillars of this particular would be here. The chaotic luxury, luxury retro lake life meets club merch and bougie club energy. I could go on for days on that one, but I want to get into the next one that I think is huge, that I've been. I've sold some of these like as long ago as eight or nine years ago, but they're coming back in a big way and that's nutrition label parodies. So we've got literally everything here. So you got architect with ingredients, right? You got the barcodes, you know, a barista. So you've got your tamper, you've got your filter. Frothing icons that speak to their design, but that look very much reminiscent almost of the. On a clothing label that we all sell in pod, right? The, the washing, the drying, the hang dry, all those things, right? Very reminiscent of that super clean typography. Here we're looking sans serif, no serifs at all here. We're talking like the Helveticas, the Futuras of the world. Those are the kinds of fonts that are going to work for this high contrast single color. You know, you've got a little bit of some hand drawn element here, but typically speaking, it's icons and very simple design elements that create this awesome cohesive kind of thing, right? And if you're a nail tech or any kind of, you know, if it's a vocation, it makes all of the sense on the planet to put a QR code in there, right? It just makes so much sense, you know, because they're going to be big enough for people to obviously get a laugh at this and like read some of it and ideally introduce some humor to make those emotional kind of, that resonate a little longer, right? But then, yeah, if you've, you know, you need a nail tech, that's awesome. Nail tech with a sense of humor. Because you're going to be sitting there for what, 45 minutes or however long it takes, right? So as long as there's some kind of good banter, it's a great one. So if they got a sense of humor, you're going to probably be more inclined to maybe scan that QR code on the back of the shirt. But yeah, I think that's kind of where I was going with that stuff. Stop my share here. Got a bunch of other stuff for you.
- [46:43]
Julie Berninger
So the sardines and oyster one, I'm seeing that. And actually my husband and I are. We're designing an Airbnb. Like, we bought a house, we renovated it, we're designing Airbnb. It's a beach, kind of coastal Airbnb. So I was looking into the oysters, sardines, because we think younger families will rent it and maybe that's the aesthetic that they might like to see, like in the art and the different things. So I was looking on Etsy for the art, but before I was doing that, I didn't really have a reason. I'm in, like, the. I don't wanna say I'm the older mom. When I had my first kid, I was 30, but now I'm 36, having my third kid. I'm like, just a little past understanding exactly what's going on with those sardines and oysters. Like, I'm not. That's not in my Gen Z. Not a Gen Z anymore. So how are you? Cause you had a lot of information. For anyone who's listening to the podcast, Jay had a lot of information on this slide he was showing about that particular demographic. Like, you, you give them names. You knew. Like, you knew the words they use. Like the word chaotic is one. I see a ig. That's a. That's a word. Where are you getting that? You're not in that demographic. So, like, how are you understanding what that person wants at that level?
- [47:45]
Jay d' Souza
So part of doing this is a part of being in print on demand, is making it your job to know how to dive into these niches. So I start by going down rabbit holes. It's super organic, right? Pinterest is a great place to start. You know, you're going to see everything there. It's the visual Google, I'll call it. Right? Like, it's the visual kind of search engine. You're going to see everything there before anywhere else. So trends.pinterest.com is where I would probably send you and then I would verify or validate potentially in trends.google.com so you can go to business Pinterest or trends.pinterest. pinterest has like a 88% success rate, I want to say, or at least over 80 anyway, of their whole Pinterest predicts thing. So they've hit the nail on the head eight times out of 10, cyclically, like year over year, they do not miss the mark for the most part. So what you're seeing there is kind of where you can kind, you know, get some immediate visual, you know, I guess, inspiration, and then I'll go down the rabbit holes and start searching. Right. So then I'll, like. You could chat. GPT is great for this. Now doing the deep research, you can ask it to, you know, do give me some heads up on these particular niches or then search on Etsy, then search on the big stores. Like, you know, speaking of the coastal and beachy vibe that we are now in Belize doing that, I'm, I'm, you know, keeping a little bit of tabs on the quicksilvers of the world and the billabongs, right? It's that surfer kind of culture, that beach life, you know, those are the kinds of things that are kind of blending into this whole coastal element now. So it's not just coastal, it's not just fishermen, but we're getting a little more specific. So you got sardines and now you got more oysters that way. I mean, you're seeing it too, not just in, you know, merch itself, like actual merchandise, like clothing, but you're seeing it all kinds of things now, right? You're seeing it like printed wall art frames. You know, you're. You're fitting out your Airbnbs. And this is a beautiful thing to know because I've been trying to get people to go after home stagers. I have a friend who's a home stager and she buys. She's got a warehouse full of stuff. She's actually on her second warehouse now, but she buys warehouses full of stuff just to stage homes. Not necessarily Airbnbs, but she, you know, she's a home stager, so. But she's. Every three months she's buying new inventory and then liquidating her old inventory. But when you're doing like, you know, 10 homes a week or whatever, you're in and out, in and out. She has trucks show up with all the gear, they outfit it. They make this drab, sterile, neutral color house of light grays and dark grays into this beautiful kind of coastal look and vibe home. And then three days later, they got it, it's sold, and they're going to get all their things back. Right? If you. I think it's just an untapped gold mine. Target not just people in the home decor space, but Target specifically people who are going to come back and buy more and More and more, which would be the home stagers and real estate agents, I think is huge, especially with, you know, how fast Airbnb specifically have grown. So that's like another, you know, ideal customer under that entire home decor niche right now. I think it's huge. Yeah. And down here, I mean, half the rentals out here are Airbnbs as well, right? Yeah. Fall down, Fall down the rabbit holes. Don't be afraid. You know, no time limit. Or, you know, get into some trend reports that let us do it all for you, you know, if that makes sense.
- [51:19]
Julie Berninger
100%.
- [51:19]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah.
- [51:20]
Julie Berninger
So I know those are some good trends. I know we wanted to close out with a couple mindset things. So I'm curious if you had to wrap it up with your last two points on the mindset side, which is huge. This is everything. This is success or failure in this business, because if you can't get knocked down and get back up again, then you're probably not going to have the longevity it takes to see the success. So I'm just curious, what tips do you share and use on yourself that you think might be helpful? Helpful?
- [51:51]
Jay d' Souza
Well, you know, having the right mindset, you said, is. Is absolutely, you know, crucial. And we did talk about this a little bit before, but it's the same idea as, like, you know, being an athlete that you mentioned you were. If you just because you don't hit the podium, you don't finish first, second or third, does that mean you're going to quit running now or whatever sport you're in? Or does that mean you're going to go back, train harder, and come back bigger, bad or better? Right. That's the kind of the same mindset you need applies to everything in life. You get knocked down, you have to get back up. There's this thing called negativity bias, and our brains are literally wired to keep us safe. So that's why, you know, stepping out of your comfort zone feels like this big taboo thing. But growth happens outside of that comfort zone. So if A, you can't step out of it, you're never going to grow. But B, those accomplishments you have, once you do step out of it, are just going to propel you so much further forward. I never thought three years ago I'd be living in Belize, but having traveled to Latvia to speak at Printify's first ever, you know, Pod Summit, have my literally had zero subscribers and no YouTube channel to almost hit 50,000. Right. Like, all in the last three years. And, like, none of that would have ever happened. If I didn't decide that I wanted to a, quit my crappy, toxic corporate job and do something for myself that I actually maybe even enjoy doing and not just waiting another 17 years to pay the mortgage and then another five after that to retire at 65 or 70 and then hope I'm healthy enough if I'm still alive, to maybe, you know, enjoy some time. Like, are you going to be able to climb a Mayan temple like we did two years ago when you're retired? Like, are you putting all of that off and not enjoying it at the same time? And for that to happen, you have to want more, right? And I, I really just want everybody to squeeze more out of life that they possibly can. But, like, the negativity bias going back to that is like, you know, how one bad review can ruin your entire day. Meanwhile, the previous 10 reviews you got over the last two weeks or whatever it is, you've already forgotten about them. How does that work? Right? How does that even make sense if you think about it, right? Those 10 reviews should light you up for more than the, you know, three or four days until you got that one bad one, right? And then that bad one consumes us. It's just because our brains are listening. And if you, you know, if you say that, you know, my shop is dead or nothing's working, your brain literally is listening to us. So it's like that, you know, it's a, it's a caveat. It's a vicious circle that way because it propels you in a negative cycle and it just makes you want to repeat the same stuff. So, like, you're going to almost, in a way, and this isn't like the woo woo kind of thing, but you're literally manifesting what happens that way when you keep repeating the negative stuff. It's literally, you know, the way our brains are wired to work. So we perceive negativity typically two to two and a half times more severe than anything positive, which is absolutely insane, right? Like, there's no reason to do that. So it's trying to, you know, buck yourself out of those ruts, I think to just not be afraid and listen to everybody else and then have the resilience to keep going because you're going to get knocked down. It's like, oh, the summer slump sucks, blah, blah, blah, or I put all my eggs in the Christmas basket and now Q1 is dead. Well, you know what? Q1 happens every single year. So instead of saying, oh, life is over, what about the businesses out there that have had not just bad quarters but bad years, bad three year stints. There's businesses out there, if they pulled the plug, you wouldn't have the Nikes of the world or the, you know, the big car corporations or anything, right? They literally had bad first bad five years before they started turning a profit. And here we are trying to, you know, be profitable and make $5,000 a month because somebody on YouTube said it in our first or second month, right? It's kind of like ridiculous to think that you potentially left this corporate thing that you were trained at in school and all this stuff and had all this, you know, leading up to making the money you made at that job, good or bad to jump ship and go into this, you know, hands on entrepreneur type thing where you're now the graphic designer, you're now the marketer, you're now the advertiser, you're now the, the researcher, you're the R and D, you're your product development, you're wearing all these hats for the first time in your entire life and you think you're going to be rich in 30 or 60 or 90 days. Like that to me is, is ludicrous and it should be. And I'm not saying this in a negative way here, but I'm saying like, set yourself up for success, allow your time yourself the grace to get good at some things and then eventually like try to outsource the things, you know, in time that you're not awesome at but you know, need to get done. But like focus on, on having a good time with it and understand that, you know, give yourself, you know, a good 6 to 10 to, I would say a good 12 month run before you think of, you know, pivoting again. Because oh, I tried this niche, didn't work. So I'm going to go try this niche or I tried this and didn't work. I'm going to try this. Or T shirts, I can't sell T shirts so I'm going to sell mugs, you know, the day it's not the T shirt or the mug, right. We're selling that emotion. So you just got to kind of pick one and stick with it and give yourself a year, please. And I promise you'll, you know, you'll see so much more success. There was a great quote and it kind of escapes me now, but I think it's something along the lines of we, we overestimate what we can accomplish in a year or six months. But we always underestimate what we can accomplish over 10 years or over 5 years, right? So it's, you know, we never think about five or ten years down the road where we want to be, build and plan for that because ultimately, you know, that's going to be life changing for you. And we always overestimate. We always think we can get to that finish line or get that paycheck way sooner than we, you know, plausibly should. So I could go on forever about this stuff, but I mean, that's the kind of thing, right? It's not about that this didn't work. It's that this didn't work yet. And it's not like, you know, that you failed. You're learning, right? Incorporate those lulls because they happen every year. So what are you going to do in that lull now? Because you know that sales are going to be dead. Do your best to get the sales to ride out, save some of that money, don't go blow it. And then look at revamping all the designs that didn't work or look at, you know, iterating new versions of the stuff that did work. Right? Put that, that downtime into good use. Right. Instead of just kind of wallowing and festering in this, you know, loathe, loathing, self loathing pit of, you know, negativity because there's. And it's what? Just wait around for the next holiday so that you can design 100 more designs to have that peak and then there goes the valley again. Right. But you know. Yeah, I don't know. I hope that makes sense. I want everybody to win and I. You need to set yourself up for success or you're not probably going to be cut out for this. Yeah.
- [58:35]
Julie Berninger
Jay, when you were saying this and I was thinking of your brand name Jay's Way, it's like you got a Jay's way of doing things. I don't know if that's what you meant, but I mean it's like it is trend and data and research backed, but it's a left brain and right brain. You got a little bit of both. Like you're the mindset thing. And I think that's probably the right way to do it for success. It has to be both. You gotta have both pieces of it to be successful.
- [58:58]
Jay d' Souza
I think it's imperative that you have both. There's no. Okay, so the reason why it's Jay's Way is not the only way. There's a million and one ways to do it. But my way works. But so do other ways. Right. And it's not to say that My way is the best way by any means. It's just my way. It's just Jay's way. At the end of the day, no way is going to work if you don't give it a good year or whatever to get into, right? Because people will take, you know, they're going to listen to me on YouTube or maybe, you know, they don't like to. We could all be saying the same thing even. But the way I deliver the information might hit differently. It might land a little bit differently, right? Maybe the look of my face, somebody else is prettier to easier on the eyes than me or this tone of my voice, those things. Maybe you just can't stand my voice, but you can under, you're okay with hers or his over here, you know, like that's okay, right? Don't feel like. I think the worst thing is that people, you know, amass this knowledge and there's not enough action being taken so you can learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, and then put into action something. But the winners are learning and implementing. Learning and implementing. Learning and implementing, right? You're not just going to spend 300 hours watching YouTube in a month and then put, you know, two hours into your business because you're going nowhere, right? And yeah, you're going to forget most of what you've already kind of consumed, right. So, you know, limit yourself on, on all the learning in the best possible way. Like I never want to stop learning. But you also have to implement what you learn or you know, ultimately if you, if you don't list it, you can't sell it, right.
- [60:35]
Julie Berninger
So if people do want to consume a little bit and consume more of your content, where can they find you?
- [60:41]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah, I'm a terrible salesman, right? Stop watching me and go work. You know, my YouTube channel is @ Jaysway Works. You can check that out for sure. And I do have Jaysway Works slash Inner Circle. It's my membership community. It's, you know, it's just a community of like minded people in there. We're dropping all kinds of stuff and you can at least check it out. So. Jswey.org inner circle. We've added some more subject matter experts too. We actually have a digital guy in there who he's all about automation. So super cool to learn from that way. He's kind of like he hits a button and he gets an hour and a half worth of work done or a day's worth of work done in about an hour and a half. It just, you put his hands up and you can see all the things moving on his screen. So, like, mind blowing, right?
- [61:25]
Julie Berninger
Magic.
- [61:27]
Jay d' Souza
Yeah, it's crazy. I got a macro keyboard coming from Amazon. It just takes months to get down here, so I'm learning how to do all that stuff. But. But, yeah, then we have M, who is, you know, killing it on Shopify right now. So she's, you know, these are all members that kind of a flourish have grown from within. And ultimately my whole. The meat and potatoes of my membership is, you know, it's. It's design first and mindset, because without those two things, you're not going to sell. You could pump thousands of dollars behind a design, but if it sucks, it just becomes expensive, ultimately crappiness, because, you know, no amount of ad dollars is going to sell ugly design. So, yeah, I think anyone can design. It's just a matter of wanting to. So I pride myself on helping people make designs that actually sell.
- [62:16]
Julie Berninger
I love that. All right, well, we'll link to everything below. Thank you so much, Jay. I feel like I thought about so many different things in the last hour, so thank you. That was really a good chat. Much appreciated.
- [62:27]
Jay d' Souza
You're so very welcome. Sorry. Not sorry. Right. It's the way my brain works. Yeah, it's all over the place. Have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for having me. Truly humbled to be here.