The disappearance of Thomas Perez Sr | Ep 226

Summary

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Crime and Coffee Couple – True Crime Podcast

Episode 226: The Disappearance of Thomas Perez Sr.

Hosts: Allison & Mike
Date: January 4, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

In this episode, Allison and Mike take listeners through the astonishing case of Thomas Perez Sr., a 71-year-old man who was presumed murdered after mysteriously vanishing in Fontana, California, in 2018. What begins as a standard missing person’s investigation spirals into a Kafkaesque ordeal of police suspicion, harrowing interrogation, and a devastating false confession—only to end with the supposed victim alive, well, and entirely unaware of the chaos left in his wake. The couple examine how confirmation bias and investigative tunnel vision can devastate innocent lives, discussing the wider implications of police interrogation techniques, false confessions, and the failings of the criminal justice system—all with their trademark blend of warmth, sarcasm, and empathy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Disappearance: Initial Events

• Thomas Perez Sr. vanished on the night of Aug 7, 2018, after taking his dog, Margo, for a walk to the mailbox. Margo returned home minutes later, leash dangling, but Thomas did not (11:00).
• Tom (the son) waited until the next afternoon to report Thomas missing, describing his father as independent, social, and sometimes unpredictable—often leaving without notice, but also showing signs of memory decline (12:24).
• Officers were struck by Tom’s calm, detached demeanor and tangential conversation when making the report. According to Social Services Officer Joanna Pena, “something just made her feel unsettled… almost detached…” (12:42).

2. The Suspicious House & Tom’s Behavior

• Police found the Perez home in severe disarray: broken furniture, stacks of boxes, holes in walls, a missing mattress and shower curtain, and scratches and bruises on Tom explained as work injuries (14:13–16:43).
• Tom rambled off-topic, seemed sleep-deprived, and had visible bruises, further raising suspicions (16:47).
• Bloodstains in the home and the absence of Thomas’s wallet and phone intensified the focus on Tom:
  “They found it strange that Thomas had left his cell phone and wallet behind… Had he left these items behind because he was simply no longer alive?” (17:28).

3. Escalation to Homicide Investigation

• Cadaver dogs and Blue Star luminol tests led police to believe blood and decomposition were present (21:57). However, later it’s revealed the cadaver dog was not professionally trained, and Blue Star has high false positives (45:33, 45:52).
• Tom, exhausted and bewildered, was held under intense and prolonged interrogation (23:44). Despite hours of questioning, Tom persistently denied involvement, suggesting possible places his father could have gone (23:58).

4. Police Tactics and Tom’s Breakdown

• Interrogators used classic pressure tactics: moving Tom out of the station for coffee, confronting him with supposed evidence, and eventually bringing in his beloved dog Margot, threatening she would be euthanized due to “trauma” from witnessing the crime (31:54).
• “They informed Tom that blood had been found on Margo’s paws, and because she was so traumatized, she was going to be euthanized.” – Allison (32:05)
• When told his father’s body was at the morgue and pressed on multiple scenarios, Tom eventually (after ~28 hours without sleep) agreed to possibilities suggested by detectives, including that he might have stabbed his dad with scissors, then broke down completely:
  “He was so distraught that he began pulling at his hair, sobbing, ripping his shirt open.” (35:14)

5. The Shocking Twist: Thomas Sr. Is Alive

• Three days after Tom’s arrest, a nurse breaks protocol and lets him speak to his father—who is alive and on the phone (36:28).
• The real story: Thomas Sr. had wandered off to see his brother, crashed at a friend’s, then traveled to visit his daughter—exactly as Tom had theorized. He left the dog’s leash to let Margo return home (37:18).
• Police had failed to make the most basic investigative steps—calling the sister, following up on travel suggestions, and verifying the whereabouts of the missing man before escalating to a homicide investigation (38:34).
• By the time police learned Thomas Sr. was alive, Tom had already falsely confessed to murder after brutal psychological strain. Officers continued the ruse for hours, allowing Tom to languish in psychiatric hold, nearly ending his life (40:33).

6. Aftermath and Systemic Failures

• The house was destroyed by the police search; Tom was left traumatized, struggling to recover from the ordeal (42:04, 56:56).
• The police pressed on with their investigation, stubbornly convinced “someone had either been hurt or killed inside the house.” They even placed a tracker on Tom’s truck after Thomas was found alive (44:40).
• It turned out the “cadaver dog” was a volunteer’s untrained pet. Luminol gave false positives due to house renovations. Some bloody evidence appeared only after police first searched the house, raising grave doubts about evidence handling (45:33–46:45).
• The city of Fontana ultimately paid Tom $900,000 in settlement, though with zero admission of fault or apology (48:19). Officers involved were promoted (50:33).
• Allison and Mike highlight the danger of police lies and psychological pressure in interrogations, referencing Innocence Project statistics on false confessions and arguing the perils of allowing police to mislead suspects (51:00–55:13).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On police tactics:
  “They are throwing the kitchen table at this guy, the kitchen sink.” – Mike (33:10)

• The confession under duress:
  “So one of the detectives eventually asked him, did you stab your dad, maybe with scissors? And while seemingly lost in thought, Tom suddenly replied, that’s possible.” – Allison (33:22)

• On the catastrophic error:
  “It turned out that Thomas Perez Sr. Was alive. There had been no murder whatsoever.” – Allison (36:30)
  “Oh, my effing God. That is so frustrating. God.” – Mike (36:37)

• When police had learned Thomas Sr. was alive:
  “At that point in time, when this is happening, officers had known that Thomas was alive. Two hours earlier, they had talked to the sister.” – Allison (40:33)

• On institutional response:
  “Officers who were involved were later promoted… Michael Dorsey… was promoted to captain and then eventually chief of police of Fontana. … Kyle Guthrie was named Fontana Police Department’s 2019 Employee of the Year.” – Allison (50:36/50:58) “I hope Dorsey and Guthrie both have profuse diarrhea the rest of their lives. How about that?” – Mike (59:33)

• On justice and false confessions:
  “Should police be able to lie to a suspect?... I don’t think they should be able to lie and tell a person your DNA is on their body.” – Allison (54:42/56:15) “What do you feel more strongly about? Would you rather have a bad guy in jail or an innocent person not go to jail?” – Mike (55:36)

• Epilogue:
  “The negative lesson that he took away from this whole entire ordeal is don’t call the cops. And that is the case of Thomas Perez Senior.” – Allison (57:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Weight loss & personal chit chat: 00:34–09:56
  (Skip to 09:56 for start of case.)
• Case Introduction & Disappearance: 09:56–14:13
• House Search, Early Suspicions: 14:13–23:34
• Police Interrogation, Tactics & Pressure: 23:34–33:10
• False Confession & Tom’s Breakdown: 33:10–36:28
• The Revelation – Thomas Sr. Found Alive: 36:28–40:43
• Destruction, Aftermath, Lawsuit: 42:04–48:19
• Police Response, Promotions, and Systemic Discussion: 50:33–59:33
• Debate: Can Police Lie to Suspects?: 54:42–56:42
• Final thoughts, healing, and lessons: 56:56–58:09

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Thematic Takeaways

Confirmation Bias & Tunnel Vision

Police suspicion snowballed into a presumed homicide, ignoring alternative explanations—even when Tom gave them logical, documented reasons for his father’s absence. The case exemplifies how investigative focus can lock onto a theory to the exclusion of basic due diligence.

The Perils of Coercive Interrogation

Lengthy, hostile interrogations, psychological manipulation, and threats about loved ones and pets can break down innocent suspects, leading to false confessions—highlighted here through Tom’s emotional and psychological collapse.

Lasting Impact & Institutional Rot

Despite the catastrophic errors, officers involved faced upward career mobility, and the city refused to acknowledge wrongdoing. Tom, traumatized for life, was left with money but no apology—and a warning to all listeners about the dangers of unchecked state power.

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Conclusion

Allison and Mike approach this harrowing case with their usual blend of humor, empathy, and critical analysis. Their conversation spotlights the human cost of investigative mistakes, the nuances of confession law, and the importance of questioning authority and advocating for fairness, both in individual cases and throughout the criminal justice system.

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For more about Crime and Coffee Couple True Crime Podcast, visit crimeandcoffeecouple.com.

Transcript

[Mike]

Special Agent Will Trent, abc Tuesday.

[Allison]

You run from the dark.

[Mike]

That's why it chases you. Get out of my house. The hit series Will Trent is back. Will, this is a manhunt, not a murder that needs to be solved. And the truth, this man killed my.

[Allison]

Mother and left me to die.

[Mike]

He's out.

[Allison]

I think if we don't catch this.

[Mike]

Guy, then he's gonna go off the deep end of control.

[Allison]

They won't even see you coming. I have to end this.

[Mike]

Will Trent's season premiere Tuesday, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu Foreign.

[Allison]

Welcome back to another episode with the crime and coffee couple. My name is Allison.

[Mike]

And my name's Mike.

[Allison]

Hi, Mike. How are you?

[Mike]

1, 2, 3, 4. I declare thumb war.

[Allison]

Did you used to thumb wrestle when you were a kid? Yeah, I did.

[Mike]

I. And did you win a lot?

[Allison]

Yeah, actually, I was pretty good.

[Mike]

Let's go.

[Allison]

My thumb muscles are pretty darn strong.

[Mike]

I declare thumb more. And then you go at it. I mean, well, I am.

[Allison]

I mean, come on. I'm gonna be destroyed against you. You're a behemoth.

[Mike]

It's like, I'm not that. So I always think about this. We talk about how big am, but it's not like I'm six seven. I'm six two. Right. But I like, every time I go to, like, a public event, like, I look around and I'm over most people, you know, it's like, it's kind of a nice.

[Allison]

Wow, look, he's tall.

[Mike]

Well, it's not my fault, definitely. I. If it was up to me, you know, I'd probably just be an average height, I would guess. But, I mean, I actually like this height. I like this height and size. And in the meantime, talking about size, I wanted to bring it out there that I'm on one of those GLPs, folks. I did it. I. I qualified through my doctor. She was like, you need to be 32 BMI. Or I was. I was like 32.2. So clinically obese is the guy you're looking at here.

[Allison]

Mike's been calling himself clinically obese since we were, what, in our 20s?

[Mike]

Well, I've been saying morbidly obese, I think. Or have I. Or just clinically, you say.

[Allison]

Sometimes you say one of each. But I will tell you, as a clinical and registered dietitian, bmis. When it comes to men, it's a bunch of garbage because it only takes your height and your weight in accordance to it. Yeah, but it's a good in consideration. I Should say, it's not like my.

[Mike]

Bones are much bigger than most people.

[Allison]

You are so sizably bigger than me.

[Mike]

Yeah. But, you know, I also have, like, larger breasts than you, so, like, that's not good for a man.

[Allison]

Big old hoots. Oh, yours are bigger, right?

[Mike]

Exactly. So I need a bra, bro.

[Allison]

A bro.

[Mike]

A man's ear. So, no, I mean, it's not that bad. You guys have seen me with my shirt off, but it's just like, you know, I could probably stand to lose a bunch of pounds, probably 30 or so, like, to get in. Like, everybody's like, oh, you're not fat. It's like, actually, I am. Like, that's. I think that's part of the problem. A lot of us are, like, accepting when people are. I just want to be healthy. Like, that's the main reason I want to be around for my kids and my grandkids and. And I've been jogging a little bit the past couple of weeks. I've been telling you guys. And so things are going in the right direction. We'll see if I can stick with it. I hope so. God, I hope so.

[Allison]

You're. It's in your hands.

[Mike]

Exactly. It's up to me.

[Allison]

You have the decision. I went on a weight loss journey back in 2021.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And I remember I was like, spiraling about it. And you're like, the good news is you have the control and you're strong.

[Mike]

Enough to do that. That's. And I'm strong enough to. I'm going to. I'm doing positive self talk. I'm strong enough. And this thing, man, I tell you, I'm on the zip bound one. That's like one of the newer ones. I'm only on the smallest dose. I don't want to go up. I don't want to have like the flappy skin all over the place. I'd rather. Rather not. I just want to go slow and steady. Oh. If you guys have any questions, like, please ask. I'm just an open book, obviously, because I just told, you know, 10, 20,000 people about this.

[Allison]

Well, I mean, so far you're feeling pretty good. Like, you haven't been sick or anything like that. You've just noticed that you're satisfied with your meal quicker.

[Mike]

Yeah. Like yesterday, pizza days, Pizza Fridays, man. I used to go back for another slice, maybe an extra wing or two. Like this time I was like, I'm two slices. I knew I'd be good. I. I did have a couple wings too. And I was just like, okay. And I'm good. And it helped me like the whole night. And I did have some tic tacs through the night. Those, these like black ticks. These black cherry Tic tacs are amazing if you see them anywhere.

[Allison]

Yeah, they're like a little soft. They've got the hard outer crust, but then when you bite through that crust, it's, you know, chewy.

[Mike]

So addicting, man. I mean, since we've stopped drinking, we've liked candy a lot.

[Allison]

Yeah, that's something I hear happens to.

[Mike]

People and that we get all sorts of good candies.

[Allison]

Well, I have been binge eating frickin Skittles. It is a problem. So we were watching Stranger Things and we got. Got a shareable size of Skittles. And when the term shareable size comes into play. No, no, it was only my size. And I just, my. Our brother in law, Mike's brother would video chat me because her, his daughter, our niece, just likes to talk to us. So both times I was video chatting him, he's like, oh, you're eating Skittles again. I'm like, I can't stop.

[Mike]

Yeah, her little niece, was she too now?

[Allison]

Yeah, she's like two and a half.

[Mike]

Yeah, she just goes to the FaceTime. Just goes, Uncle Mike, Auntie Allison. I see pool, I see pool, I see puppy, I see kitty.

[Allison]

And she goes through our pictures and names us names our pets. Because she, even though she's only met our cats, what, maybe once, she, you know, she knows them because of our FaceTime.

[Mike]

Yeah, she got her Christmas card and is like going through each of us.

[Allison]

It was cute because they're in the Chicago suburbs where we're born and raised, but we relocated to Tampa. If you're new to us.

[Mike]

Yeah. And so real quick, back to the story about the Skittles. If whoever's editing our video. We have three people editing our video now. So it could be our son, it could be Alison, and it could be another gentleman we brought on board in overseas. So. Hey, so what's going on, man? Can I call you? So anyways, so it could be one of these three people. I'm asking you, whoever's editing right now, zoom in on my face. Okay. And see if this is done. This is my reaction when I saw Alison reaching for the family size bag of Skittles. I was like, ooh, that's getting a lot of Skittles.

[Allison]

So it was running dangerously low when I took our daughter to Target. And it crossed my mind to go and get another family bag of skin Wow.

[Mike]

I would never do that, because I know I'd eat it all. That's my thing. But, like, you have control over yourself. Me, that's why I'm on this drug, because I can't. I mean, I can. I just haven't been able to do it myself, I guess. And, yeah, I would just be eating the whole thing.

[Allison]

Yeah. I can control myself for the most part, depending on the time of the month, if hormones are at their finest peak, there are times where, because you say that you have this food noise in your head. Like, I don't have that.

[Mike]

Yeah. If it's like, noon, I'm like, holy crap, I get to eat lunch. Awesome. Like, it's like, a highlight of my day. I'm like, all right, now I can eat. And d. And then it's like, five o'.

[Allison]

Clock.

[Mike]

Bing. All right, now we can have dinner. Like, it's like, whether I'm hungry or.

[Allison]

Not, it's based on time for you rather than hunger. Whereas I like to eat based on hunger.

[Mike]

Yeah. And emotion and boredom. Like, all those things come into play. And Sundays for football, I've got this habit of just eating chips like a fat piggy. Like a little, fat, little piggy.

[Allison]

That's what I sound like. So I. I judge no one on whatever journey they need to take to reach their goals. As long as you're not hurting yourself or other people, I think that's a personal choice. So hopefully no one will harshly judge Mike for utilizing a medication to reach his goals.

[Mike]

Oh, I don't give a crap if you judge me.

[Allison]

Go ahead.

[Mike]

It won't affect me whatsoever.

[Allison]

I mean, everybody has to do their own thing. Because when you were telling me about this food chatter you have in your head, because I lost weight just by, you know, controlling my calories and exercising, and that was my journey. That was my choice, which is the.

[Mike]

Best way to do it, probably. You know, then it's like self control.

[Allison]

Right. But. But you were telling me that it's almost like an addiction for you.

[Mike]

I. That's the thing, man. We've talked about it before, where it's like, please don't buy these Doritos because I don't have the willpower to not eat the Doritos. Once Allison goes to sleep at night, I break into the cabinet and I start eating them, and then I'm like. It feels like a good idea. Feels. I feel, like, this rush of, like, fantasticness, you know? And I'm just like, oh, I'm chewing them. And then at the end, I Feel like a piece of crap. And it's just like, why'd I do that? And I'm like, oh, next time I'll make sure I won't. And then I do.

[Allison]

That's how I was with drinking, with having wine with my girlfriends. I would say, oh, I'm just going to have a glass of wine. And then once I had that one glass of wine and I got to chatting and. And I was having a great time, and now my inhibitions were down. Then that second glass of wine. Wine sounded so great, and, oh, let's have that third glass of wine. So that's how I was with wine, or gin and tonics or whatever it happened to be. Alcohol is a very addictive substance. I didn't want something controlling me because I am a very controlled person. And when I lose control of myself, I lose faith in myself.

[Mike]

Yeah. Then you feel bad.

[Allison]

And then I wake up the next morning with such deep remorse.

[Mike]

Spiraling.

[Allison]

Yes, I spiral. And I already have a baseline. You know, this energy level. I. I don't want to say the word anxiety, because it's not necessarily anxiety. It's more energy. And I would wake up the next morning and just be spiraling because I let myself do something I promised myself I wouldn't.

[Mike]

Oh, my gosh. That's the exact same feeling. That's crazy. We're finding this out live here on this camera on this podcast.

[Allison]

So we're all dealing with our own struggles. It's just a matter of what's important at that time in our lives.

[Mike]

If I may. So the. You just said that. It made me think, like, when I drank alcohol and they no longer do, but when I did, I would be in complete control of myself. So I'd be very confident. And, like, sometimes my body would just be like, no, Mike, I think you're done. Just cool down. I had to feel it in my brain and be like, okay, cool. And then I just have waters and then just hang out and whatever and then be totally fine. Then I, like, not. I never. Like, your thing is like, the hangovers and this and that. I never really had that problem. Sometimes I liked a little hangover. Like, it was kind of fun. I don't know how to explain it, but it was like, you know, you knew you had a great night the night before, because I'd be just wailing out and whatever. I don't know. But it was.

[Allison]

Yeah, that's something. I never would be like, oh, I should stop and have water. It's like, ah, let's have another glass.

[Mike]

Right. Which is crazy because that's not who you are. And then also the control thing is not who I am either. Like I'm out of control when I'm in my normal life.

[Allison]

So Mike would call me Rockstar Alley because turn it up. And just. It was just that. That's not for me.

[Mike]

Whether it was a profuse amount of crying or it was laughter or dancing, I mean, you, you know, you had a good time, but.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah. So I'd rather be in control of my faculties.

[Mike]

Absolutely. It's a good idea.

[Allison]

And on that note, shall we dive into this piping hot cup of coffee?

[Mike]

Yeah. And by the way, got a ton of new listeners. Some TikTok blew up. So thanks for coming over and if you guys could just like and subscribe, there's great ways to support us. Just quick, like quick subscribe. Make sure you add us, follow us, whatever podcast platform you're listening to, click that plus button, make sure you're following us. But now I'm ready.

[Allison]

Yeah. Thank you guys so much. So this is a case of Thomas Perez Senior. So some disappearances, they hit differently, not because of what's found at the scene, but maybe because of what isn't. So this is a story about an elderly father who suddenly vanished in 2018 in Fontana, Californ. So when his son reported him missing, authorities were convinced that the son knew more than he was letting on. So at 2:30pm on Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 53 year old Thomas or Tom Perez Jr contacted the non emergency line for the Fontana Police Department in Southern California. This is a city that's about an hour's drive east of Los Angeles. So he was calling to report his 71 year old father. This is Thomas Perez so senior missing. So I'm going to identify Thomas Jr. As Tom and Thomas senior as Thomas. So Tom explained that during the previous night his father had left the house sometime between 9:30 and 10:00pm he walked out with their border. Excuse me, their husky border collie mix.

[Mike]

Oh, that's a high energy dog.

[Allison]

This is Margo. So Thomas and Margo were going to check the mailbox that was positioned at the end of the cul de sac. So however, only minutes later, Margot came home. She and her leash is dangling from her collar. And Thomas, who was known to his family as Papa Tom, he was nowhere to be found. So Tom indicated that initially he wasn't concerned because his dad was a very independent man, kind of stubborn, set in his ways. They often live separate lives despite the fact that they Shared the same roof. They both lived together under the same roof, but they kind of did their own things.

[Mike]

That's kind of sad.

[Allison]

So he said that he, his dad was a very social person and he was known to just go off and visit a friend. Friend on a whim without even saying anything to Tom. He would just go off and do his own thing.

[Mike]

Yeah, but with dropping the dog.

[Allison]

So. However, when Thomas still hadn't come home by Wednesday afternoon, the following day, Tom started to grow concerned. So he said that at 71 years old, his dad's memory had been recently faltering. He occasionally struggled to recognize a once familiar face. And these brief lapses and memories seem to be happening more and more frequently. So he was concerned that maybe his dad had wandered off and had gotten confused and turned around and couldn't find his way back. So Thomas was also vulnerable because he spoke limited English.

[Mike]

I mean, 71 is not that old. That's pretty early for dementia stuff.

[Allison]

You'd be surprised. I have had patients with early onset dementia who were talking in their 50s.

[Mike]

Yeah, no, that's, that's a terrible situation. But that's like not the norm. No, that's like, that's why they're in the hospital, because it's so off, you know, where it's like somebody who's 80, it's like, well, this is normal.

[Allison]

Right. So when Tom initially called to report his father missing, he was routed to a social services officer. This is Joanna Pena. So she began to draft this missing person report. And as she sat there listening to Tom's explanation, something just made her feel unsettled. So not only was his tone very calm, exceptionally calm, but he sounded almost detached to her. And he was suggesting that police check around for an elderly man who might be out wandering about. So he continued to rabble on, ramble onto different topics that really had nothing to do with what they were talking about in terms of this missing person report. So as they wrap things up, he said, just let me know if you find him. Maybe it's my dad. So since Tom sounded very indifferent and distracted during their conversation, Joanna reached out to her supervisor. This is Corporal Shirley Foley. And they decided to head over to the house to, to see what was going on with the situation and finish the report over at Tom's house. So as they arrived to the two story, three bedroom home that Tom and his father shared, they lived within a golf course community. They found his large black pickup truck that was parked very snugly to the garage door. So as Tom greeted the Social workers. He was wearing white shorts, a blue button down, short sleeve shirt. And he seemed very calm and casual. Nothing seemed, you know, he didn't seem agitated or overly concerned about his father's.

[Mike]

Whereabouts, that his dad is gone.

[Allison]

So once inside, they found that the home was in a highly chaotic state. There was broken furniture, tools, stacks of boxes throughout the house. They were piled nearly to the ceiling. So they asked him, what's going on with your living situation and this clutter? And Tom was explaining, and he did seem a little bit ashamed that they were trying to sell the house. So he was doing renovation projects because he worked in construction in order to get to the house to where he wanted it to be, to sell it. So because he was backed up with so many other projects that were paying customers that took precedent to his house, his own home had fallen to the back burner.

[Mike]

You gotta have the money coming in right for your stuff.

[Allison]

So this kind of left them in limbo. And they were living in this constant state of disarray, which is very stressful. I've heard on it, all the home renovation shows. I watch people say, oh my gosh, I'm never doing that again. It's so stressful because you're displaced in your own home. So Tom continued to veer off onto tangents. Kind of like he had on the phone. He was discussing the work he was doing around the house, his dog's diets, kind of just jumping from topic to topic. So as the officers did a quick look through the house with their body, cameras were recording every movement. At this point in time, they found no trace of Thomas whatsoever. However, upon entering his bedroom, they found that it was odd that the man's mattress was missing. And there was also a shower curtain from one of the bathro that was missing. So many of his belongings had been gathered as if they were getting ready to be thrown away. So Tom was just explaining that because they were trying to get their minds around moving, they were trying to pare down their items, declutter the homes of, of things that they no longer wanted. So officers immediately noted that there was a hole in one of the walls of Thomas's bedroom. And this was something Tom chalked up to as another construction project. And despite his explanation, the officers just didn't feel that it looked like a normal construction thing. And not to mention, they saw some scratches and bruises on his body somewhere visible because he was wearing a T shirt and shorts. And he said, oh yeah, I got these with my business with construction. So with their suspicions growing, when Corporal Foley asked Tom point blank, did you get into a fight with your dad? You. He kind of faltered in his response, and his behavior seemed very erratic.

[Mike]

And that's probably a good spot. Just kind of come out of nowhere. Be like, hey, did you get in a fight? And it's like, oh, crap.

[Allison]

Not expecting that direct questioning. So when they asked him about his jumbled train of thought, he chalked it up to just being sleep deprived. So not only did the home look as if a struggle had maybe occurred inside, but they also found it strange that Thomas had left his cell phone and his wallet behind, because you would make the assumption that if he was going off to visit a friend, he would want his wallet in his cell phone. And the officers were standing there wondering, had he left these items behind because he was simply no longer alive, was their question. So the more and more time that officer spent in the home, the more they believe that Tom was responsible for whatever happened to Thomas. Because at this point in time, all they know is he's not there. So when they came across what appeared to be dried blood stains and spatters in various areas of the home, including a dark patch that had hardened onto the cream colored carpet at the bottom of the staircase, Tom said that it must have been from his dad's blood sugar checks. Apparently he was diabetic and he would have to do his finger sticks.

[Mike]

That's a lot of blood for a finger stick.

[Allison]

As well as many maybe random minor incidents. You know, when you, you're older, if you're on any kind of blood thinner, you can literally just bump a table and you're bleeding.

[Mike]

Well, yeah, like your dad' blood thinner. And it's just like there's not blood all over his house.

[Allison]

Yeah. So after additional units were called in, Tom was taken down to the station on Wednesday evening for questioning. And he was initially hesitant about going until he eventually climbed into the back of the waiting patrol car and he went with officers to the station. So once there, he was placed in an interrogation room, and he was being continuously video and audio recorded during this time. So as he sat across the table from detectives Robert Miller and Jeremy Hale, they started questioning him about the timeline of his father's disappearance. And he continued to list plausible explanations as to where his father could have gone. He said, well, maybe he took a train to his brother's house, maybe he went to visit a friend, or maybe he traveled north to see his daughter, meaning Tom's sister. So since he was a very social person and he did know many people around the area. This wasn't actually uncommon for him. So officers who remained back at Tom's house were speaking with neighbors about what kind of a relationship Thomas and Tom had. And they described it as volcanic. And they said that they would hear frequent shouting matches. Apparently they would do this in the front yard. They weren't worried about, like, who might hear this. So on the night of Thomas's disappearance, one neighbor told officers that they saw Tom quickly back his pickup truck into the garage. It was just something to note. I always think of the Chris Watts case when the neighbor caught him moving his truck back on his video. And he's like, I've never seen him do that before.

[Mike]

Right. I'm not saying he did anything bad, but I've never seen it.

[Allison]

Right. So Tom admitted that he and his father had argued before he vanished. And this was something he said because they were living in this constant state of chaos in the house. They were just finding themselves more irritable and more likely to snap at one another. And I could totally see that. You. If I am living in chaos, I am very snappy.

[Mike]

Yeah. And you're already a borderline irritable. So I'm just like.

[Allison]

So you're.

[Mike]

Sends it over the edge like a.

[Allison]

Live wire just waiting to lash out.

[Mike]

See, there she is.

[Allison]

So after Thomas separated from his wife, they had been living under the same roof. And Tom was explaining that his father was far too stubborn and difficult to adjust to strict rules of a senior living community. So rather than Thomas living in his own place and say, a 55 and over community, which would probably be great for him.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Because he's so social. He's like, oh, no, my dad would never conform to the rules.

[Mike]

I don't know, man. I think he would. And my dad's just like that. He's not as fiery, it sounds like, as Thomas, but like, he loves talking to people. He made like 20 new friends.

[Allison]

But you know how some people just can't be told rules? If you're told a rule, even if they don't want to break it, they're going to break it.

[Mike]

Yeah. Because they're told they can.

[Allison]

Right. So according to Tom, because he and his father were often butting heads, they often just stayed to themselves. Although they did love each each other is what he's saying. So it was truly their beloved dog, Margot, who really connected them together. And Tom lovingly referred to her as our fur baby. And they often shared the responsibility of caring for Margo. And this was really something that gave them a sense of peace. And harmony within the chaotic state of their living arrangements. So since Thomas adored Margot, the detectives couldn't wrap their heads around what Tom was telling them. Would Thomas really have walked down to the mailbox and then just dropped his dog's leash?

[Mike]

Like, it. I mean, obviously it sounds like Tom is the guy that did this stuff, but, like, did this story that he put together is terrible.

[Allison]

Like, would you lie like that? Like, wouldn't you come up with a better story?

[Mike]

Right, Exactly.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Maybe that's why he did. I don't know. I'm trying to wrap my mind around that. It's like, especially after you said they both love the dog. Like, I would never, ever, ever just let our dog off the leash.

[Allison]

No. And we are obsessed. Obsessed with our dog. Like, I am very obsessed with our dog.

[Mike]

She pretty much grew inside you.

[Allison]

Yeah, I. I always say I, I surely I had to have given birth to you, but that's just something that would never happen. So after search warrants were obtained for the vehicles, computers, phone, home and tools, when investigators utilized Blue Star, they found a large amount of blood or whatever that lit up in the house. And it was clearly cleaned because you're seeing it light up, but there's nothing there when the lights are off. So when a cadaver dog was brought in, the dog froze as it entered. This is Thomas's bedroom where it walked into and it alerted, signaling recent human decomposition. So with this Thomas's disappearance, transition into a missing person's case, they were believing that they were dealing with a homicide investigation. So now, by Wednesday night, this is 24 hours after Tom claimed his dad walked out of the house with Margo to check the mailbox. Investigators at this point in time felt certain that something terrible had happened to Thomas. They believe that Tom was at the center of it and that Thomas was likely not alive at this point in time. So as they combed over the phone and Internet records, Tom remained at the station. And he was vehemently denying that he had anything to do with his father's disappearance. So after seven hours of questioning, of course, if he went down to the station at night, we are now into the early morning hours of Thursday morning. So although there was nothing directly tying him to his dad's disappearance, police continued to believe fully that he was guilty. And they wanted him to get a con. They wanted to get a confession out of him.

[Mike]

Yeah, seven hours. I mean, clearly, if you're ever in the. Being questioned by police for seven hours, you are the prime suspect and you.

[Allison]

Have not slept whatsoever.

[Mike]

Should be it's crazy.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's. It's really not a good mental state that you would be in at that point in time. So the first round of detectives are now exhausted because they've been questioning him all night long. So they brought in detectives David Yanosh and Kyle Gattery to take over.

[Mike]

But. But the suspect is still there.

[Allison]

He's still there. He's still awake. He's still sitting in the chair.

[Mike]

Yeah, it seems fair.

[Allison]

So they knew that they needed a confession from Tom, so they took him out for coffee. They hope that maybe him leaving the station, because anytime you're in a police station, your guard is naturally going to be up. They thought bringing him out in the real world would feel more natural, but.

[Mike]

They got to record it. Are they recording?

[Allison]

I don't. I would imagine they probably had audio recording in the car. Yeah.

[Mike]

You think you got to tell them.

[Allison]

But, you know, they. You do. See, I see all the. You know, you watch, like, the real. I watch the Real Housewives. I've seen Karen's dashboard cam. I've seen. Is it Luann's? So I'm sure there was a video running as well. So they're driving around, hoping that maybe this sense of normalcy and comfort will give him the opportunity to start spilling. So they indicated that they were driving to the train station to check camera footage, but instead of doing that, they circled the city. They were hoping to drive by a location that might trigger something from Tom.

[Mike]

Oh, like, randomly. So, like, they weren't necessarily targeting in location, but just like, well, we're just gonna drive around and see what happens. Okay.

[Allison]

Smart thinking. Maybe. Did he discard a body over here? So as they drove around, they urged Tom to tell them where his father was, but he continued to insist that he had no idea. And they drove him by a charity shop where he claimed to have dropped off his dad's clothing for donation, as well as neighborhoods where Tom had said he had been house hunting, because, of course, they're looking to move. So it wasn't until they drove by the golf course that was near their house when Tom suddenly, randomly blurted out, do bodies float at the top or do they sink?

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Allison]

So although this was a very alarming statement in lieu of the circumstances, the detective stayed quiet, hoping that he would just continue to say more.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So when they ended their drive at a deserted pad of patch of dirt, Tom became nervous, and he refused to get out of the car. And since he seemed agitated, the detectives believe that this location must have some sort of Significance, but he continued to deny any guilt at this point in time. So Tom began to go on a tangent about his own health, ailments that included high blood pressure, asthma, anxiety, and depression. So as the interrogation continued on, he began to complain about feeling unwell, and he continuously requested his medication from home. So according to the detectives, although he seemed tired and agitated, medically, he seemed fine. But they assured him, you're gonna get your medication. So authorities believe that Tom was using these medical ailments as just a form of distraction from the pressure, and he began to say that he needed to go to the hospital for care. So, however, rather than taking him to the hospital, he was brought back to the station. And the hours continued to tick by as he remained in that interrogation room being questioned. So Tom's emotions were all over the board. And by the way, on Wednesday, when he called this in about his dad being missing, he said he was going on more tangents at that point in time because he was sleep deprived. So he was already sleep deprived before he came into the station.

[Mike]

So he's like borderline hallucinations and stuff at this point. That's. I mean, if he's guilty, I have no problem with any of this stuff. But, like, if he's not, you know, even a small chance that he's not guilty, that's. It's really, really bad.

[Allison]

So one moment he would be sitting there declaring his innocence, and then the next, he would be breaking down in tears. His voice trembling, he would ask over and over, where's my dad? Where's my dad? So because the detectives believe that there was some relevance to this deserted patch of dirt that they had previously brought him to, they took him back a second time. But once again, Tom revealed nothing. So with the pressure mounting, the detectives felt in their gut that Tom was very close to cracking. They're like, we gotta just push on. So, brainstorming a new tactic. Investigators thought that Tom might be more likely to open up if he was speaking with somebody that he was familiar with and trusted. So he previously asked if he could speak with his close friend and business partner. This is Carl. So when detectives spoke with Carl, he was stunned to hear what they had to say when they were telling him that based on very, very strong evidence, they believe that Tom was responsible for his father's murder, and they needed his help to get him to confess.

[Mike]

Very strong evidence being the dogs right away and just how the house was kind of a mess in the construct project.

[Allison]

Even more than that, they indicated that there was blood everywhere and they had a video of Tom dumping clothing that had blood on it. So they were also planning on digging up a location where they believe that Thomas had been buried. So although Carl couldn't fathom that his friend could be capable of violence, let alone violence against his own father, he agreed. And as he entered the interrogation room, Carl and tog Tom hogged. And Carl said, they're accusing you of murder. And Tom shrugged and said, that's impossible. And Carl warned him that the police seemed to have a lot of evidence against him and they could likely make an arrest. So when he was asking him, you know, are you involved in whatever happened to your dad? Tom said, no, I'm not. So after Carl left the station without a confession, detectives came back into the interrogation room. And as Tom continued to deny any accus accusations against him, he asked officers if he could just go home to sleep.

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[Allison]

So not only was he threatened to be arrested and potentially spend the rest of his life in jail, but they also threatened him with an up to a million dollars in restitution if the city had to continue searching for his father's body.

[Mike]

That's crazy. So, like, they can say whatever they want and that's what sucks. So you are allowed to go as long, as long as you're not being detained and stuff. Like, if their answer is like, no, you can't go, then, you know, instead they're saying you could have this restitution and this and that. The answer is yes, you can go. You can also ask for a lawyer anytime. Then they have to stop asking you.

[Allison]

Questions, that's for sure. So trying a new approach, officers brought in Margot, their beloved dog, to the station. So as she entered the room where Tom was sitting, her black and white tail was furiously wagging and Tom was flooded with relief. At the comforting sight of his dog. And after he hugged and rubbed her fur, Margot eventually settled and she laid at his feet. So Detective David Yanash, point blank, told Tom that not only was his dad dead because of him, but poor Margo had to witness whatever happened to their shared owner. And he urged Tom, look at Margot, saying that she knew exactly what happened, but she was forced to walk through her owner's blood, and she was traumatized.

[Mike]

Did they check its feet?

[Allison]

So they informed Tom that blood had been found on Margo's paws, and because she was so traumatized by what she had witnessed, she was going to be euthanized.

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Allison]

So they said that not only was blood all over the house, but it was also in their garage as well as in Tom's truck. That.

[Mike]

That. That's cr.

[Allison]

So they told Tom that he would have a moment to say goodbye to his dog, and they were basically taking Margot over to some sort of, you know, shelter, and she was going to be euthanized.

[Mike]

And that is absolutely not true.

[Allison]

So as they left the room, you know, he's. They're. They're escorting Margot out of the room, and of course, she is, like, one of the most important things in Tom's life.

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Allison]

He utterly collapsed in a heap, and he was just fully anguished. And he is crying and crying, and police are believing that he's crying because of his guilt. So. However, as more and more time went on, his defenses did seem to grow weaker to them. So they thought they were only getting that much closer to a confession. So the detectives told Tom that his father's body was currently lying on a gurney at the morgue. And they began voicing their own theories as to what happened to Thomas, how he died.

[Mike]

They are throwing the kitchen table at this guy, the kitchen sink.

[Allison]

So they're coming up with plausible ideas. Maybe there had been a fight with a stick or broken bottles. Maybe Tom had run his father over with his truck.

[Mike]

Now, his body wasn't there at the morgue, right?

[Allison]

We'll see. Okay. So one of the detectives eventually asked him, did you stab your dad, maybe with scissors? And while seemingly lost in thought, Tom suddenly replied, that's possible. So the detective asked, possible. And Tom said, although it was plausible, he didn't think he did that. So 28 hours after Tom called the police and nearly two days since he had last seen his father, in a report for the investigation that was dated on August 31, 2018, Detective Janus wrote, thomas said he grabbed a pair of scissors and went over to the couch and stabbed his dad. He said he was enraged. If he was enraged, he probably stabbed him a lot.

[Mike]

Oh, wow. That's a lot different than what he actually said.

[Allison]

Thomas said after his dad was stabbed, his dad went upstairs to the bathroom. So his stabbing on the couch didn't kill him. Thomas was able to walk up the stairs to his bathroom. And Thomas, when. When, Doctor, Excuse me, Detective Janus is saying Thomas, he's also referring to junior here. So my apologies in that. So Tom heard him fall. So he went up there and saw his dad lying on the ground of the bathroom, and he wasn't waking up. Up. He said that he slapped him in the face a few times, but he still wouldn't wake. Thomas's dog came in the bathroom, so he tried to get the dog out of the bathroom because there was blood everywhere. Once he got the dog out, he then wrapped his dad's body in the green shower curtain because, of course, there was a shower curtain missing from their bathroom. He then transported his body down the stairs and into the garage. And then he put his dad's body in the back of his truck. So while the detectives tried to get more information out of Tom, he said, I don't know. Before he vomited in a garbage can.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

He was so distraught that he began pulling at his hair, sobbing, ripping his shirt open.

[Mike]

Yeah, because he's been awake for like 24 plus hours.

[Allison]

He voiced an audible apology to both his dad as well as his sister, and he said, I'm sorry, dad. I had no idea. I love you. And then in terms of his sister, he said, I didn't mean to take daddy away. I have no idea. I still don't understand. And he's been up for more than 24 hours at this point. So after officers left the room, Tom looked or took his leather shoelace, and he started to wrap it around his neck in an attempt to strangle himself. So after they rushed in, they placed him in restraints and he was formally arrested. And because he was obviously a danger to himself, he was transferred to a hospital under an involuntary 72 hour hold where he was not allowed to have contact with anyone. So the shock of all shocks came three days later. Tom is in a psychiatric ward for three days, and suddenly this nurse walks into his room and whispers to him, I know they said, you can't talk to anyone, but your father's on the phone.

[Mike]

What the hell?

[Allison]

It turned out that Thomas Perez Sr. Was alive. There had been no murder whatsoever.

[Mike]

Oh, my effing God. That is so frustrating. God.

[Allison]

So you just wait. So on the night of Tuesday, August 7, 2018, 71 year old Thomas, he had done exactly what Tom had said. He walked out of the house with Margo on her leash in order to retrieve the mail at the end of the street. However, rather than turning around and coming home, he dropped Margo's leash. And I guess she was a very, very trained, well behaved dog that would just go back home because that's what.

[Mike]

She did, unlike our dog.

[Allison]

But he continued walking. And when he reached the train station, he boarded a train, he went to see his brother.

[Mike]

Oh my God.

[Allison]

And then he later caught, caught a bus to a friend's house. He spent the night and then the next day he headed to Los Angeles International Airport to board a flight to go visit his daughter in Oakland. And these are suggestions that Tom had said. Maybe he went to see his brother. Maybe he went is going to see my sister.

[Mike]

Well, yeah, go call those places. That's what you're supposed to do as an investigator.

[Allison]

So since Tom and his father didn't have a close relationship, it was typical of Thomas, not to mention what his plans were like.

[Mike]

I could totally see my dad doing this, right?

[Allison]

And Thomas being an older generation, you think, well, who would leave his cell phone behind? Cell phones weren't part of the majority of this man's life, so he doesn't feel he needs it.

[Mike]

Anybody out there who has a 70 year old mother or father like, you know that they leave their phones behind all the time.

[Allison]

And then in, in terms of his wallet, he must have just had his ID on him and just left his wallet at home. So in the meantime, after he didn't come home and Tom reported him missing, investigators were convinced that the man had been murdered based on Tom's demeanor, the state of the house, paired with the spots of blood throughout and the dog.

[Mike]

Hitting on decomposing skin like that's crazy.

[Allison]

So fire that dog all the while. Thomas was very much alive and well throughout this whole thing.

[Mike]

That's so crazy.

[Allison]

So at the start of his interrogation, Tom told investigators his father might be with my sister. And he passed her number along. He gave his sister's phone number, but rather than calling her, they started to treat the investigation as a homicide investigation.

[Mike]

I kind of don't blame them. They had some evidence there, you know, of the. The dog hitting is a big, big, big sign.

[Allison]

So after over 30 hours had gone by since Thomas was reported missing, it was 8:45pm on Thursday when Detective Robert Miller finally called Tom's Sister. He decided to do the easy thing. The low hanging fruit was just dialing that number and talking to the sister. And she explained that their dad was currently at the airport in Los Angeles waiting to hop on a flight so he can come and visit her.

[Mike]

Well, not to mention, wouldn't you call the family to let them know their dad's missing and if they heard anything, report it back to. I mean, that's your first call, right?

[Allison]

That's again, the easy thing to do.

[Mike]

It's also the decent thing to do. You got to let family know, right?

[Allison]

So as officers rushed to the airport, they found Thomas. And he was completely shocked when he's being surrounded by police officers.

[Mike]

Holy crap.

[Allison]

And although he had done nothing wrong and had no idea what was going on, they placed him in handcuffs. They read him as Miranda rights.

[Mike]

Oh, God, this is. This. This family is going to be very rich very soon.

[Allison]

And they guided him to the back of a patrol car. So while Tom is his hysterical in the interrogation room at the police station.

[Mike]

The dude almost killed himself.

[Allison]

He almost killed himself.

[Mike]

Oh, my God. Pulled his hair out. Like, you know how bad it has to be. Literally pull your own hair out.

[Allison]

Pulling his hair out, ripping his shirt open, vomiting in the garbage can, falling to the floor, having to say goodbye to his dog. Being told that his dad's body is at the morgue on a gurney. He takes his shoelace off in an attempt to end his life. And at that point in time, when this is happening, officers had known that Thomas was alive.

[Mike]

They knew he was alive. What? God. Oh, my God.

[Allison]

Two hours earlier, they had talked to the sister.

[Mike]

What the. What? Why are they doing this to him then?

[Allison]

I don't know.

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Allison]

I don't know. It's like. It's almost like it's sick, right?

[Mike]

These officers should be put to death. Like, this is the type of crap that we're like, they should be, if not death, like life in prison.

[Allison]

So rather than telling Tom, I don't know what. What's going on, but your father is fine. They took him to the psychiatric hospital where they let him stay for three days.

[Mike]

These officers. Oh, my God. And like, I don't even want to ask if they're still employed or.

[Allison]

Oh, we'll get into that.

[Mike]

Oh, my God, I'm so angry. This kind of stuff pisses me off so much.

[Allison]

So Thomas, now the father, is being escorted into the very interrogation room that his son had been in for countless hours, probably about 17. His son's blanket was still crumpled up in A heap on the floor of the room. So they are now grilling Thomas about his relationship with his son. And they told him that the house that they shared was being treated as a crime scene, whether or not Thomas was alive and well. So they asked if there had been any violence within the relationship, and then they eventually allowed him to leave the station because they had nothing to hold him on. He had done nothing wrong.

[Mike]

Because they know they're screwed, and they're trying to find something like, uhhuh, maybe they did kill somebody together. And we can just say that's what it was and that's what we were. So, oh, my gosh. They're trying to save face.

[Allison]

So as Thomas got back to his home, he broke through the crime scene tape that was surrounding it. He went inside, and he found their house in utter disarray. Their leather couch had been slashed. Stuffing was poured out. The contents of drawers and closets were strewn across the floor. The hot tub had even been dismantled and ultimately destroyed. And meanwhile, Tom is sitting at a psychiatric facility, completely unaware of the fact that his father was fine. So when Thomas learned of his son's whereabouts, he is begging them, please, let me go and see him. But this, as well as phone calls to his son, were denied. And it wasn't until he reached a sympathetic nurse within the facility, who handed the phone over to Tom.

[Mike]

What a sweetheart.

[Allison]

And as soon as Tom heard his father's voice, he immediately fell to the floor and started sobbing.

[Mike]

His whole. Like he. His whole reality is flipped upside down.

[Allison]

Yes. In his mind, for three days, his dog is being euthanized and his dad is dead. And he did it. He stabbed his dad to death with scissors.

[Mike]

Well, he's like, you take these police officers and investigators as the form of authority that are telling you the truth, and then it's like, well, I must have forgotten or something. And you're talking yourself into it, almost like I probably did. Maybe I had a psychotic episode. Episode. I don't know. If you're telling me all these things, then, yeah, as logically, I did it. But like, some, like, small percentage of these scumbag investigators, man, they'll just do whatever it takes because of their ego.

[Allison]

So that same day, Tom was released from his hold and he was allowed to go home. So Tom was stunned to find that officers had left him to suffer through unimaginable mental anguish for three entire days, believing that he murdered his father. His dog was going to be put down because of him. So one week after his release from his psychiatric unit, Tom Was finally reunited with his father. And they immediately embraced with tears in their eyes. And meanwhile, realizing that Margot wasn't astray, the animal shelter found a microchip in her back, and they were able to find her that way.

[Mike]

And so they even put their dog in a.

[Allison]

Yes.

[Mike]

Shelter.

[Allison]

Not only that, when they got Margot, she could barely walk.

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Allison]

And it turned out that through out this whole thing, she tore a limp ligament and she had to have surgery.

[Mike]

Her baby.

[Allison]

Yes. So rather than abandoning the case, after Thomas was found, the Fontana police pressed on. Excuse me. Press on. Because they were convinced that someone had either been hurt or killed inside the house.

[Mike]

Yeah, because the dog.

[Allison]

So after they got permission, they placed a tracker on Tom's truck.

[Mike]

This show exists because people value careful storytelling and take the time to listen. Patreon is how some listeners choose to support the podcast and hear separate bonus episodes that Allison and I deliver outside of the Sunday cases. That support keeps the show independent. If this show matters to you, that's where the support lives.

[Allison]

So in a statement of probable cause applying for this warrant, they listed blood in the house that was referenced as to how as well as how the cadaver dog had alerted officers to something. However, from one of my sources, they said that this had not been a certified police canine. Rather, it had been a volunteer unit's pets who was not professionally trained to alert.

[Mike]

See, like, you take these things for granted. Yeah.

[Allison]

You take them for facts.

[Mike]

Facts. You're like, clearly the police would have a trained dog that only hits when it's trained to do so. Like, if it was a canine or whatever German shepherd that they had trained, like, those dogs are really good at things.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

This is some random dog being like, oh, yeah, it was basically them bringing a dog in. So they said they brought a dog in and that they could search more.

[Allison]

Right. And mind you, Margo's scent is all throughout the house. And if this isn't a train of, you know, a certified trained dog, you know, you can't take it for reality. So in regards to the reaction of the chemical that blue star, you know, they said that things lit up in the house. It often does give false positives. It reacts to other substances, even some minerals and interior paint. And Tom was working in construction and doing work in the house, so that's what lit up inside the house. So evidence photos depicted streaks of blood on a door in Tom's home, which I saw, But Tom said that blood was not there when the officers first showed up to my house. And this is something that Body cam footage fully supported. You see Tom standing in his kitchen, and that door is right behind him. There is no blood on that door. And then later, pictures show streaks of blood.

[Mike]

Oh, my God. What an inside job. These scumbag cops.

[Allison]

And then after bloods or samples of blood were taken from the sofa where Tom was allegedly stabbing his father to death with a pair of scissors, no positive identification of blood was ever made. So no officer later testified to ever seeing a single drop of blood inside that house.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Allison]

There was, like, a picture where the bottom of the staircase where they said there was a spatter of blood was, like, circled. There was, like, nothing there.

[Mike]

This is, like, reaching. They're reaching. And now with the crazy. I get where they're thinking they've probably been a part of so many cases where. Yeah. I mean, even to us as true crime people and everybody listening, it's just like, this sounds like Tom definitely did it. You know, and just some of the things you're hearing. And that's what they decided, like, before hearing, seeing all the different investigations and just different things they can find.

[Allison]

I mean, start with a freaking phone call to the sister.

[Mike]

Right?

[Allison]

That's. That's number one.

[Mike]

Yeah. It's hindsight.

[Allison]

So despite the tracker that was put on Tom's truck, as well as a third search warrant, the case collapsed, and no charges were ever filed against Tom. So according to Tom, this wasn't just a simple misunderstanding because he indicated that he spoke with a lieutenant that he had a negative history with. So it was his belief that this person had it out for him, and that's why this happened. So after Tom filed a complaint in August of 2019, this is one year later, his hometown of Fontana, California, ended up paying him $900,000.

[Mike]

Not enough.

[Allison]

Not enough.

[Mike]

Not. Not enough. Not enough. Like millions. I'm talking millions and millions. They. They gave up too early.

[Allison]

So the money came through in the spring of 2024. This is five years later, in order to settle his claims against the police. Police. However, no one from the city has ever issued an apology. The judge who allowed Tom's lawsuit to proceed felt that some of the police's actions had gone too far.

[Mike]

Some. Well, yeah, the most important ones.

[Allison]

Right. So Tom was a vulnerable person. Judge G. Wrote that he was sleep deprived. He was mentally ill. He had been undergoing symptoms of withdrawal from his psychiatric medications. That's why he was rambling on tangents in the beginning when he was reporting his father missing, because that's just how he was. He went from topic to topic. Nothing to do with his father's case. So this, paired with the stress, the sleep deprivation, 17 hours of intense interrogation, it caused him to confess to a crime that had not occurred.

[Mike]

And while you were talking, I looked up the population of fontana. It's like 200,000. So it's a big, big city. I mean, and it's. They have lots of money. I mean, this is California. There's high taxes, you know, like, they probably get funded decently, I'm guessing. I don't know. But it's like the 900k in California is like Jack Squad.

[Allison]

It's a joke. It's laughable. So the city of Fontana continues to deny that any lines were crossed in the handling of this case.

[Mike]

Go blow it out your ass. That's crazy.

[Allison]

Indicating that they reasonably suspected that a violent act had occurred. And they argued that Tom had not been isolated. He had been given. Given food as well as his medication. And the investigation stopped once Thomas was found alive. Yeah, right.

[Mike]

No, it wasn't.

[Allison]

The guy sat in that interrogation room wrapping shoelaces around his neck, being. Believing that his father was dead at his own hands.

[Mike]

Don't they have time stamps of when he was being questioned and when they found out?

[Allison]

Information, hours they knew while he was sitting in that stage.

[Mike]

And that's factual?

[Allison]

Yeah, so CNN reported that.

[Mike]

Man. So I don't know. I would sue them again. I don't know if that's possible. Like. Like the civil sleep. I don't know what you can do, but the city of Fontana and these scumbag investigators need to be taken off there. But hopefully you tell us they are, and I'm sure they aren't.

[Allison]

So officers who were involved were later promoted.

[Mike]

Oh, God. Go to hell. Like they should. They should wrap something around their necks.

[Allison]

So Michael Dorsey, the lieutenant at the time, was promoted to captain and then eventually chief of police of Fontana.

[Mike]

Are you kidding? He's the chief of police. Scumbag Dorsey, a scumbag?

[Allison]

So Kyle Guthrie. He was named Fontana Police Department's 2019 Employee of the year.

[Mike]

Oh, man, how nice.

[Allison]

According to retired LAPD detective, this is Tim Marshaw. There is no question in his mind that there are innocent people sitting in prison. Based on the approach that was used in this case. So based on a 2024 Los Angeles Times article about 13% of exoneration since 1989, this totals 458 people have involved false confessions. So a 2016 study by the Innocence Project found that about 50% of the time, the actual criminals were later identified using DNA and had gone on to collectively commit an additional 142 violent crimes. So that's the point. You want to get a case closed by getting a false confession. And that's a problem for so many reasons. Not only are you putting an innocent person behind bars, but if there truly was a violent crime, which wasn't the case in Thomas's, you know, disappearance, there is a mad person out on the loose that is killing people.

[Mike]

Let's assume the best. Let's assume that the police figured they had their guy. Right. And it was just a matter of breaking him. You have to assume that otherwise these people are pure evil, and that's what they're holding to.

[Allison]

And. And I would hope, yeah, that's the case.

[Mike]

I totally believe that, because that's all I can do, is have faith in humanity. Right. And now that the problem is that they're human, so we're imperfect. And the other problem is that they've probably been doing this for a while. They've probably seen a million cases, just like we talked about. And most times, Tom would be the guy in this situation.

[Allison]

You follow patterns in most cases, fit patterns.

[Mike]

Yeah. They have explosive arguments in the front. Let's, like, clearly, this guy killed him. Let's just figure out how. And unfortunately, it didn't. And you guys used the wrong ways to do it. This. This dog is highly suspicious that they used this, you know, that Blue Star stuff. I've heard that. We've mentioned it many, many times in the podcast. And it was positive. Like, you know, it's. It's probably a special kind of paint that it reacts to. I would imagine it's not just any kind of paint. Yeah, but the blood all over the. Oh, that was maybe planted. That's really, really dirty.

[Allison]

Well, and again, you see Tom standing in his kitchen. There is zero blood on that door. It's visible blood. I'm not talking about a little speck. It was streaks of blood. And then the picture they're using, it's there. And. But it's not when Tom is standing there. It certainly was not there when they first walked into the house.

[Mike]

And I' heard you say anything about DNA evidence or anything, and by this time, they have DNA evidence. This is 2018, not very long ago.

[Allison]

Right. And I will tell you, in terms of his friend Carl, who had gone to the station, they told Carl that they had heaps of physical evidence that they had saw Tom bringing his dad's clothing with blood all over it. But then when Carl was leaving, he. They mentioned CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence. So all of a sudden he's like, wait, what? I. I would like to go back in and talk to my friend. And they wouldn't allow.

[Mike]

Oh, my God. That. And so the. You're. You're for sure that it was Dorsey and Guthrie, who are the chief. People, like, responsible for this case? Because I would like to.

[Allison]

Well, there were four total detectives, because, remember, the two tagged the other two in. So that's. It was. It was the teaming of two and two.

[Mike]

I mean, so. And then the. That. That comment that the guy made about the Innocence Project, he's like, you know, knowing that how they use these tactics, I'm sure other people are also innocent.

[Allison]

He's positive.

[Mike]

Yeah. But at the same time, these people are usually guilty.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

So I would. I would hope and I would imagine that not many innocent people have gone through for this, because this type of stuff happens all over the United States. This is how they grow people. I mean, they're probably trained on this. They know they're breaking down, but they're not hoping. Man, I hope this guy breaks down for a false confession.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

I hope he breaks down so that.

[Allison]

He can tell us what happens.

[Mike]

Yeah. Now that's. I'd love them to admit that, but they're not going to, because then they know. They open themselves up.

[Allison]

You know, the big question is, are. Should police be able to lie to a suspect?

[Mike]

That's the. See, I want the bad guys caught. Right. And if you can't lie, then you're kind of dead in the water.

[Allison]

But to me, like, I've watched the confession tapes on Netflix. I've heard other podcast episodes that discuss people who falsely confess. Because when you are sleep deprived and you are being told for 24 hours, your DNA was on her body, you did this. That shouldn't. If. If you don't have that DNA, I don't think you should be able to say that.

[Mike]

I definitely see where you're coming from. But what if the guy did do it and you know you did, you.

[Allison]

Need to find it on proof. Not.

[Mike]

But there's not always proof. That's. If they clean everything up and you don't, you know, you have your guy. It's like, we probably do have our guy.

[Allison]

But imagine people spending their lives behind. Behind bars because you hear these cases where after 40 years, they're released based on DNA that now comes through.

[Mike]

What do you feel more strongly about? Would you rather have a bad guy in jail or an innocent person not go to jail?

[Allison]

I hate injustice. So so much so I think of different cases where there's somebody spending their life behind bars. I don't believe they did this. And it's so concerning to me because they're being accused and treated as if they did it. And then there's a madman out on the loose. So it's just so wrong.

[Mike]

To me, it's like we hear about the cases where things are screwed up. We probably would never be talking about this if he actually did, because it's like, yeah, a dude solved it, right? And that wouldn't be on it. True Crime podcast. It wouldn't be this news.

[Allison]

No.

[Mike]

And we don't hear about the ones that are solved over and over and over again. It's like 99% guilty, guilty, guilty.

[Allison]

I don't think they should be able to lie and tell a person your DNA is on their body. Tell me, damn it, tell me.

[Mike]

I guess the other side to that allowing them to lie is at any point you can say, I'm not telling you anything, I need a lawyer. At any point, you are free to say that. And then you stop talking. So, like, they have to have something to combat that. And if you're still willing to talk to them, they can kind of say whatever they want.

[Allison]

But you know, when you're sitting there as an innocent person, as Tom was, he thinks, I want to help find my dad, so I want to talk.

[Mike]

Well, I'm an innocent person, right? And I would never do any of these things. And I would get scared of cops that are questioning me and I'd be like, no. Need a lawyer. Before I say anything bad, I'm happy to talk to you, you know, with somebody else here that can support me, sure, but give me a lawyer.

[Allison]

So because of concerns about the practice, in 2021, the California legislature passed a law requiring all training for investigators be science based methods. However, the law was vetoed by Governor Gavin Newsom, noting the potential costs of the state that would be involved to do said training. So Tom indicated that in the wake of the stress of the whole ordeal that he went through, he struggles to leave his house and it has taken him years to heal from the trauma. He and his father still share the same home, but they rarely speak of each other's experience during this whole ordeal. Margo sadly passed away in February of 2023, leaving a hole in the men's lives. The father and son feel grateful that they still have each other. And Tom said that the negative lesson that he took away from this whole entire ordeal is don't call the cops. And that is the case of Thomas Perez Senior.

[Mike]

Man, I would love to have Chief Dorsey, you know, appear on the podcast. I'd love to talk to you and get your side. If you don't think. Think you're a complete scumbag and waste of human.

[Allison]

Oh, they would never. He would never admit to wrongdoing. You know, it's like, that's why Tom's like, no one has apologized because an apology is an admission of guilt.

[Mike]

I don't need to hear an apology. Like, it's not to me, you know, so.

[Allison]

No, I know, but he's not going to say he did anything wrong.

[Mike]

No, but I'd love to hear his thought process. Like, if you're an innocent guy and just like you, you truly thought that you were doing the right things and get on and somewhere and make it public.

[Allison]

You know, that's what they are saying. They're saying we question him because we believe. Believe a violent act had happened at this home and that Thomas Perez Senior was deceased.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Well, that's what they're standing by. There's really nothing else to talk about. In their eyes. They don't think they did anything wrong because they were pursuing what they believe to be a homicide.

[Mike]

And both of them are gonna have a sweet ass like pension, retirement and pension. They're going to be making hundreds of thousands of dollars. This guy Dorsey is going to have 250 grand a year that the whole public is paying for. For. And he did something like that. Maybe it was a one off. Maybe it was like, man, I screwed up. I didn't do the right thing. I'd have way more respect for him if he did that right.

[Allison]

And that's why I just don't understand why when people do the wrong thing, why they can't just acknowledge it and just say, you know, we're gonna learn from this and this is a mistake that we will hopefully never make again. Because as human beings, we are going to screw up. That's just natural.

[Mike]

Yeah, but cops aren't allowed. And it's unfortunate, but that's the professional.

[Allison]

That's why there has never been an apology issued to Tom. Because they're holding firm that they did nothing wrong.

[Mike]

Well, and also litigation purposes.

[Allison]

Right.

[Mike]

I would imagine they don't want to lose things. Yeah.

[Allison]

And if they admit guilt, they're gonna have to pay him much more. And. And all of that.

[Mike]

Well, I hope Dorsey and Guthrie both have profuse diarrhea the rest of their lives. How about that?

[Allison]

And I would hope that they didn't, like, do this as a vendetta against Tom. You know, I. I would hope that they simply did what they did to solve a homicide investigation.

[Mike]

There's always more to it.

[Allison]

It. I don't know. You know how people sometimes go into law enforcement because they have, like, this power trip?

[Mike]

Yeah, it's a lot. I don't. I don't want to say anything. I respect, like, 99.9% of police. I love police.

[Allison]

I'm not saying anything against law enforcement. I have utter, utter respect against or for them. I should say, yeah, because it is a job. When I watch body cam footage, I can't believe officers have to deal with the nonsense that they have to deal with. I wouldn't last five seconds.

[Mike]

And at the same time, I love when somebody knows their rights and tells a cop, listen, you don't have jurisdiction over this, and if you arrest me, then you're going to be sued because you're not supposed to. Like, in these situations where it's like, some of these cops have a power.

[Allison]

And that's what I'm referring to, the small amount of percentage. So if you or someone you love works in law enforcement, by no means am I shading them whatsoever. I'm talking about that douchebag from high school that love to, like, you know, have power over people that now go into law enforcement because they want to continue to exhibit the. That power.

[Mike]

Yeah. Like a cop that pulled me over and he was like, well, I could give you another ticket for blocking your license plate. And it's like, I had a Bears. Chicago Bears license plate frame. And it's like, you're a dickhead if you do that. You're a piece of crap. Like, the whole. The idea of the law is to, you know, make sure that you can see the license plate. So if I'm stealing something, then, you know, you can get it on camera or whatever. It's not just to be a dickhead, Right.

[Allison]

Well, the two times in my life that I have been pulled over, I have been threatened with arrests, which is crazy.

[Mike]

It's clearly a guy that's on a power trip trying to. Trying to get to you.

[Allison]

One when I was 18 years old, and the other I was like, 24. Both times they're like, we could bring you down to the station. Do you have bond papers? When I was 18, I was like, I don't even know what bond papers are.

[Mike]

So that's pretty bad. Experiences.

[Allison]

Terrible. Two out of two. But it didn't taint me from the whole pool of things.

[Mike]

In the meantime, I've met several officers. I'm actually friends with several in my personal life and professional life. And they're awesome people. And we need more of those guys.

[Allison]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mike]

Yeah. Thank you for all your efforts, Police. Good police out there. We love you and appreciate you.

[Allison]

Utmost respect. So crazy case, right?

[Mike]

Right. I'm. Now I'm worked up, so thank you.

[Allison]

But thank you guys so much for being here with us. We appreciate each and every one of you. If you're a new listener, welcome. We are so happy to have you here.

[Mike]

Real quick, a free way to support us just like and subscribe and add us and follow us and all those things. Just make sure you're following because it puts it in the algorithm, these people are worth following. And go to YouTube, become a subscriber. You guys have all been doing that. Thank you so much. We're growing. You're still on the bottom floor here, the ground floor of. Of the crime and coffee couple. We're only going to go up from here. Thanks to people like you.

[Allison]

So, yeah, we're on the gard. We want to be at the penthouse.

[Mike]

Yeah, I think that's very cute.

[Allison]

The view is very beautiful from there.

[Mike]

We're bringing you with us. So we're a small Ma and pop podcast. I'm PA and I'm Ma. Yeah. So just help support us. We appreciate it and we'll bring more crimes to you.

[Allison]

Yeah. So thank you guys and until next time, bye.

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[Mike]

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.