The murders of Clinton and Cristen Brink | Ep 227

Summary

Podcast Summary: Crime and Coffee Couple – True Crime Podcast Episode 227: The Murders of Clinton and Cristen Brink
Release Date: January 11, 2026
Hosts: Allison & Mike

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores the tragic and deeply unsettling murders of Clinton and Cristen Brink, an outdoorsy and loving couple who were brutally attacked during a family hike at Devil’s Den State Park, Arkansas, in July 2025. Allison and Mike guide listeners through the events leading up to the attack, the investigation, and its chilling aftermath, blending their signature banter and compassion throughout the grim story. The hosts reflect on the randomness of violence and the illusion of safety, paying respect to the victims and discussing broader implications for listeners and the community.

---

Highlights & Key Discussion Points

Cozy Banter, Marriage, and Skittles Addiction (01:34–09:10)

• Allison and Mike begin with their typical banter, discussing Allison's coffee-fueled energy, IBS jokes, humorous marital disagreements, and Allison's “taste the rainbow” Skittles obsession.
• Notable quote:
  • Allison: “All I have in my system for the past 16 hours is Skittles and coffee—and a reminder, I’m a registered dietitian!” (08:46)
• They explain their show structure: ~10 minutes of lighthearted chat before diving into true crime, to balance dark topics with humanity.

---

Setting the Scene: The Brink Family and Devil’s Den (09:19–11:59)

• The Brinks—Clinton (43), his wife Cristen (41), and their daughters (7 and 9)—had relocated to Arkansas from North Dakota three weeks prior, using weekends to explore nature.
• On July 26, 2025, while hiking the popular one-and-a-half-mile Devil’s Den Trail, the family was attacked just a half-mile from the parking lot.
• Notable quote:
  • Allison: “By late afternoon, half of the Brink family would be dead. Their parents stabbed to death in an act of random violence...” (10:57)
• Mike and Allison lament the randomness of violence during mundane family moments.

---

The Attack and Aftermath (11:59–19:51)

• Hikers heard terrifying screams, leading park rangers to discover the Brink’s traumatized daughters among the woods, sobbing and trying to explain the attack.
• Clinton was attacked first; Cristen rushed her daughters to safety before returning to help her husband and was killed too.
• Notable quote:
  • Allison: "Rather than fleeing, Cristen only worried about her daughters' safety and then rushed to her husband's side in an attempt to protect him." (17:39)
• The couple is remembered as loving, adventurous, and committed parents—the “simple joys in life” being their focus.
• Mike and Allison honor the Brinks’ legacy and their heroism.

---

Investigation & Witness Accounts (21:02–26:58)

• DNA evidence at the scene indicated the attacker injured himself, but there were no database matches: he had no prior felonies.
• Numerous witnesses described a suspicious white man: medium build, long-sleeved shirt, dark pants, fingerless gloves (in July), sunglasses, and a black baseball cap. He drove a sporty black Kia Stinger with a partially taped-over license plate.
• A true-crime-aware hiker managed to snap a photo of the suspect’s back and note his odd behavior and partially obscured license plate—a remarkable detail which proved crucial.
• Notable quote:
  • Mike: “If you ever see something partially covered on a license plate, go ahead, take a picture of it. That’s probably somebody up to no good.” (25:20)

---

Community Fear & The Manhunt (26:58–28:03)

• The park was closed for weeks as investigators combed the area for clues, while families and hikers became anxious, canceling trips or carrying weapons.
• Surveillance videos corroborated witness accounts, repeatedly catching the unique black car with a noticeable dent.

---

Identification and Arrest of the Suspect (28:03–32:19)

• Four days after the murders, police found the suspect—28-year-old Andrew James McGann—at a beauty salon, mid-haircut (another darkly humorous detail from Mike).
• McGann had fresh wounds on his hands matching DNA evidence from the crime scene.
• McGann, a licensed teacher in AR, TX, and OK with no criminal record, had just been hired to teach 5th grade. His background only revealed vague work concerns.
• Notable quote:
  • Allison: “The fact that someone this unhinged and dangerous could make it through background checks and be responsible for a classroom full of 5th graders is horrifying.” (29:44)
• Allison and Mike discuss the employment pitfalls of teacher shortages, background check limitations, and similar unsettling school experiences.

---

The Suspect’s Troubling Work History (32:19–36:32)

• McGann had a pattern of problematic behavior leading to resignations—issues included questionable professional judgment, poor classroom management, and favoritism.
• Each time pushed out, he "reset" in new states or districts, raising questions about lax inter-school and inter-state communications.
• Allison and Mike recount their own brush with a "weird" teacher, underscoring how hard it is to know who interacts with kids.

---

Motive, Evidence, and Legal Proceedings (36:32–41:22)

• Despite red flags, nothing in McGann’s background signaled a capacity for murder.
• He permitted a car search; blood evidence in the car/home matched the crime scene. Detectives say he confessed before lawyering up and retracting the confession.
• Notable quote:
  • Mike: “Can you just say what you said to police doesn’t count anymore? Like, ‘Never mind’?” (37:14)
• Prosecution is seeking the death penalty due to the brutality and randomness of the crime.
• No clear motive has been uncovered. The Brinks and McGann had never met. Both were new to the area.

---

The Impact on Family & Community (39:34–41:22)

• The couple’s daughters (7 and 9) and their 17-year-old were left orphaned; family is now raising the younger girls with a GoFundMe launched to support them ($97,560 raised of $120,000 goal as of recording).
• The community remains shaken by the sheer randomness of the attack.
• Notable quote:
  • Allison: “Random violence without provocation suggests that safety is an illusion…” (39:34)

---

Ongoing Legal Status and Righteous Anger (41:22–47:40)

• McGann is in custody, set for trial January 15, 2026, maintaining a not-guilty plea despite confession, DNA, and witness evidence.
• Mike and Allison vent their outrage at legal technicalities, the slow pace of the justice system, and McGann being allowed to wear civilian clothes in court.
• Notable quote:
  • Allison: “Sorry buddy. You freaking slashed two people to death—you're a prisoner.” (42:18)
• Mike (half-seriously) proposes a “slush fund” for eliminating proven killers like McGann, expressing the common frustration around justice for such open-and-shut cases.

---

Final Reflections & Emotional Impact (45:50–47:40)

• The hosts reflect on the impossibility of preparing for such unpredictable violence, the grief visited on the survivors, and the reality that there were likely more red flags in McGann’s past.
• Allison: “There’s nothing Clinton and Cristen could have done differently.”
• The pain extends to the Brinks’ daughters, their relatives, and all who want to believe a family hike is safe.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “By late afternoon, half of the Brink family would be dead. Their parents stabbed to death in an act of random violence...” — Allison (10:57)
• “Rather than fleeing, Cristen only worried about her daughters' safety and then rushed to her husband's side...” — Allison (17:39)
• “If you ever see something partially covered on a license plate, go ahead, take a picture of it. That’s probably somebody up to no good.” — Mike (25:20)
• “The fact that someone this unhinged and dangerous could make it through background checks and be responsible for a classroom full of 5th graders is horrifying.” — Allison (29:44)
• “Random violence without provocation suggests that safety is an illusion…” — Allison (39:34)
• “Sorry buddy. You freaking slashed two people to death—you're a prisoner.” — Allison (42:18)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Cozy Banter, Marriage, and Skittles: 01:34–09:10
• Case Introduction and Setting: 09:19–11:59
• Description of the Crime & Aftermath: 11:59–19:51
• Victim Backgrounds: 19:51–21:02; 21:02–23:21
• Investigation and Witnesses: 23:21–26:58
• Community Fear/Manhunt: 26:58–28:03
• Suspect Identification and Arrest: 28:03–32:19
• Suspect’s Work History/Red Flags: 32:19–36:32
• Investigation, Motive, and Legal Action: 36:32–41:22
• Family Impact: 39:34–41:22
• Legal Status and Host Reactions: 41:22–47:40
• Emotional Reflections and Closing: 45:50–47:40

---

Tone and Host Chemistry

Throughout, Allison and Mike maintain a mix of humor, candor, and deep empathy. Their conversation flows naturally from relatable family moments to sorrowful reflection and justified anger on behalf of the victims.

---

Memorable Moments

• The mid-haircut arrest: “He probably looks stupid. Oh, I love the cops that did that.” — Mike (29:15)
• Allison’s deadpan: "And a reminder, I’m a registered dietitian. ...Cheers to that, folks." (08:46)
• Candid frustration with legal process: "He freaking confessed. ...You could say that, but the trial has yet to happen." — Allison (47:10)

---

In Summary:
This heartrending episode embodies everything Crime and Coffee Couple fans expect: detailed, respectful storytelling; genuine empathy for victims; frustration with injustice; and real, relatable host banter. The randomness of the Brink murders, the chilling ordinariness of the killer, and the heartbreak for the orphaned children all combine for an episode that lingers long after the final words.

Transcript

[Special Agent Rebecca Henderson]

My name is special agent Rebecca Henderson.

[NBC Promo Voice]

Thursday on NBC.

[Special Agent Rebecca Henderson]

There was an explosion at a top secret prison. Some of the most infamous killers broke free.

[NBC Promo Voice]

The hunting party is back.

[Mike]

We're going in loud. FBI.

[NBC Promo Voice]

The stakes have never been higher.

[Special Agent Rebecca Henderson]

The longer they're out there, the more dangerous they're gonna become.

[Mike]

And the killers, what's the flavor of psychopath we're dealing with here?

[Special Agent Rebecca Henderson]

Someone who craves power and control have.

[NBC Promo Voice]

Never been more twisted.

[Mike]

This is Next level.

[NBC Promo Voice]

The Hunting party. Thursday on NBC.

[Talkspace Sponsor Voice 1]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace.

[Talkspace Sponsor Voice 2]

Last year, I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself.

[Talkspace Sponsor Voice 1]

When you're navigating life's changes, Talkspace can help. Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy, bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime, anywhere.

[Talkspace Sponsor Voice 2]

Living a busy life, navigating a long distance relationship, becoming a first stepfather. Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone.

[Talkspace Sponsor Voice 1]

Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code SPACE80@talk space.com.

[Allison]

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode with the crime and coffee couple. My name's Allison.

[Mike]

And my name's Mike.

[Allison]

Hi, Mike.

[Mike]

Hey, how's it going, you sweet little darling of you? You are.

[Allison]

I'd say it's pretty good. I'm drinking a very strong iced coffee on a fully empty stomach. I don't think we've eaten in about 16 hours. Oh, that's going to be interesting with your IBS.

[Mike]

We might need to take a little break in the middle here.

[Allison]

You might have to take a little break. Ski.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah. It's a self diagnosed, by the way.

[Allison]

Oh, absolutely. And we were watching our. I was watching a reel about this girl who they live in a van, her and her boyfriend by the river. It. I don't know that they're down by the river, but they have a situation where there's a bucket installed where they can urinate. Do number one. But people always ask her, they're like, well, what if you have to go to the bathroom? And she says, well, we can pee in the bucket. And again, it's not like a bucket in the center of the room. It's situated to look like a toilet.

[Mike]

Well, men, that's no problem. I mean, I'll go anywhere.

[Allison]

And in my head, I was like, well, she clearly doesn't have ibs because when. When you do, you can't be very far away from the ability to take care of business.

[Mike]

Well, they can just go on the river.

[Allison]

Well, I don't know that they're by a river.

[Mike]

I was. What? You said they were van.

[Allison]

I said, I don't necessarily know that they're by a river. Every van is not by a river.

[Mike]

Why wouldn't they be? I mean, rivers are nice.

[Allison]

They might be. We'll just say that they're by the river. But maybe she doesn't want to crap in the river.

[Mike]

Makes a lot more sense to me.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I was actually watching on an Instagram. This is a great topic, by the way. Great job, Allison. That was me, by the way, bringing this up. But it was. They were in a boat, a bunch of, like, teenage boys, basically. And the guy's like, oh, I gotta go. And he jumps in the water and he's, like, filming him.

[Allison]

Like, oh, no. So it just, like, floated up. Mike sends me these reels and things that I'm like, did you mean to send this to any of your friends? Like, this is not my humor. I don't like crass, like, especially if it's sexual and it's.

[Mike]

I don't know. I don't send you a. But, like, I sound like you send.

[Allison]

Me this one of the dog laying on its side. Side. Viciously humping a toy.

[Mike]

Oh, that was kind of funny, wasn't it?

[Allison]

It was fine. I mean, I was like, this is not my cup of tea.

[Mike]

I thought you'd laugh. I thought you'd laugh.

[Allison]

It was like, okay. I mean, I.

[Mike]

It's the soundtrack.

[Allison]

My humor.

[Mike]

I know, but the soundtrack on it was like, oh, yeah, that's good. Get it. Or something like that. It was kind of funny, like, you know, a human voice with a dog.

[Allison]

I don't know. It's just. I find silly things funny, and the. Some of the things Mike sends me, I'm just like, why?

[Mike]

Well, speaking of marriage issues, we're going to go through a live marriage thing.

[Allison]

Marriage issues.

[Mike]

Yeah, we're going to go through it live. This is the first time I'm talking, but in a little while. It's nothing big. Don't worry.

[Allison]

Okay. I was like, maybe we should. What Am I preparing for.

[Mike]

Yeah. So last night we're going to bed before, you know, sleep. And this morning we wake up and it's Sunday. We're doing our podcast. And last night you were like, hey, what time you want to get up for the podcast? And my head, I'm like, I really don't care. This is completely up to you. I'm like, eight o'. Clock. And you're like, okay, no later than eight o'. Clock. We need our butts in the seats. Like, in the seats. Recording. And, like, mind you, we have nothing going on today until the Bears play the Packers a little bit later.

[Allison]

You need to go to Costco.

[Mike]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I need to go to Costco. So we are pre recording, recording this. The Bears were still playing, so I do need to go to Costco. So I was just like, in my head, I'm like, yeah, that sounds good. And now, then we got up. Now, I did have some technical difficulties. You see some lights behind us. This one's always been up. If you're watching on YouTube. The one to Allison's side is brand new.

[Allison]

We wanted it to be symmetrical.

[Mike]

Yeah. So I did take a little bit longer putting that one up. I forgot to put in one of the things. I'm not very handy, but that's okay. That's besides the point. So it took me probably 10 more minutes than usual today, but here we are sitting at 9:12am or an hour.

[Allison]

And 12 minutes behind schedule, and Mike is trying to tell me, for this lamp, that this rubber tube that goes into the lamp, that it's going to fit. I said, I've never taken physics in college or high school, but this defies the laws of physics. This tube ain't going to fit.

[Mike]

And it did seem a little snugger than the last time.

[Allison]

No. They say, and you just push it. I'm like, there's about 4 inches of extra rubber in this thing.

[Mike]

Yeah, it turns out there was more than that. There was like eight inches of extra. And it was like, I didn't put in the extra post or whatever, but that's besides the point. So enough about me. Let's talk about you. So last night, do you think it's better for me just to agree with you? Because everything went great today. Great moods. You are enjoying yourself. You're enjoying my company. I like this. Last night, I could have been like, well, how about like 8:30 or 9? You'd be like, no, it's too late. Here we are at 9:12, and everything.

[Allison]

Is just, no, what I want is when I say butts in the seats at 8am I want my butt in the seat at 8am and we weren't.

[Mike]

But why, like, does it matter at all?

[Allison]

I like to get ahead of the game.

[Mike]

Yeah, sure. But, like, it's fine, right? You're fine.

[Allison]

I'm fine.

[Mike]

Okay. So that's just one of those things. It's like, I think it's just easier to say yes. And knowing in my head that it probably won't happen.

[Allison]

It is easier to say yes, but it would also be helpful if you went through.

[Mike]

I was trying, with the thing that you're saying yes in my mind, to try to get us in the seats at 8:00am so, okay, we didn't do it. And then I got another thing to bring up. It's a little bit more serious. So, Allison, you know, some certain family people have problems, like substance issues, right? Some people like to ride the lightning, which I believe is heroin.

[Allison]

Ride the lightning. I've never heard that term in my. I think that's life.

[Mike]

I think riding the lighting is heroin.

[Allison]

Are you making this up?

[Mike]

No. Riding the lightning. Or maybe that's meth. I don't know.

[Allison]

I don't know. So, anyway, go ahead.

[Mike]

So some people like to ride the lightning, and Elson's looking it up right now. What does ride the lightning mean?

[Allison]

I don't bring up some kind of Criminal Minds episode.

[Mike]

Okay, so stop. So, anyways, you got to listen.

[Allison]

I'm listening.

[Mike]

Alison likes to taste the rainbow. We have a big problem.

[Allison]

I am really addicted to tasting the rainbow.

[Mike]

She is a Skittles nut. Now, I went out last night to get the girls. My daughter. Our daughter is having a sleepover with her friend, and we go to get some snacks, usually at a gas station, and Allison's like, can you give me some Skittles and stuff. She's been obsessed with Skittles.

[Allison]

I think we did talk about this on the last episode, but this is new, and it's not a regular bag of Skittles. And I know we mentioned this on the last episode, but Mike came home with a moderately big bag. I'm like, where's the family size?

[Mike]

Yeah, and it's still happening. That's the thing. Like, usually, like, maybe once or twice. This is a thing now for a couple of weeks now.

[Allison]

Have you noticed how quickly I'm eating them, too?

[Mike]

Well, yeah. Like, we laid in bed last night. Usually we don't, like, lay in bed together at night.

[Allison]

We always think of sitcoms where the couples are in bed. Together. And we rarely do that because normally I go to bed way earlier than Mike. Not way earlier, but I'd say by two hours maybe.

[Mike]

Yeah, it should be an hour, but it's usually two for me.

[Allison]

So it's rare that we are in bed together reading or whatever. We had our cat with us, our dog.

[Mike]

We were like a real couple. It was wonderful.

[Allison]

Yeah, it was nice. And I was just shoveling in the Skittles.

[Mike]

She was reading her Kindle like I'm.

[Allison]

Reading Ellen Hildebrand and it's like the Winter Christmas trilogy or I don't even know. I should have looked this up. Ellen Hildebrand, she's a good author. If you just like a fictional low key book, just a story. It's not a romance, it's not a mystery, it's not a thriller. It's just very peaceful. She's a great author.

[Mike]

Good.

[Allison]

And most of her books take place on Nantucket.

[Mike]

And she goes very well with Skittles. Apparently.

[Allison]

She goes very well with Skittles. And it was a Saturday night and I was relaxed.

[Mike]

I'll keep you guys updated. I'm worried about her, but I think, you know all these red dye, 40s and blue, 60, whatever it is blowing through these veins. That's right.

[Allison]

Coursing through them.

[Mike]

You feel good. You're in a good mood.

[Allison]

Maybe I'm energetic. Well, all I have in my system for this past 16 hours. Yours is Skittles and coffee.

[Mike]

Good. Well, that's how it should be.

[Allison]

And a reminder, I'm a registered dietitian. Yeah, cheers to that, folks.

[Mike]

Yeah. We're all human beings.

[Allison]

We all can't be perfect all the time.

[Mike]

No, no. So I think we should get along with this episode. I think it's about that time, but welcome all of our new listeners. Keep on getting new ones. Thank you so much. We just do a couple 10 minutes of banter before every episode. Just do a little coffee, talk a little warm up. Let's just make sure things are going, you know, in the right direction before.

[Allison]

We take a deep dive into the darkness and sadness that we are to talk about. Which this case does, is no exception. So are you ready to take a dive into this cup of coffee?

[Mike]

Yep.

[Allison]

All right, so this is the murders of Clinton and Kristen Brink. So what began as a fun, adventurous family outing at Devil's Den State park in West Fork, Arkansas, ended an absolute unimaginable tragedy on Saturday, July 26, 2025. So this is obviously a more recent case. So Devil's Den is an Arkansas icon that's nestled within Lee Creek Valley and it was selected as a state park site in the 1930s. So hikers, campers, mountain bikers, horseback riders, fishermen, fisher women, whatever. Anyone who likes the great outdoors likes to visit this area to see rock formations and caverns as well as an impressive rock dam that spans Lee Creek and it forms Lake Devil. This is an 8 acre lake for fishing. So that Saturday afternoon in late July, the weather was a warm 85 degrees. There was a breeze in the air. It wasn't yet to that point maybe in August where the humidity is just weighing everybody down and you're miserably hot. So 43 year old Clinton Brink and his wife, this is 41 year old Kristen Brink, they headed out to the park to hike with their seven and nine year old daughters. So the couple did also have a 17 year old daughter, but she didn't go out to the park with them that day. So the Brink family had only just moved to Arkansas three weeks earlier. So this is their new home state and they were no doubt utilizing the weekend to explore, see what the area had to offer. And you know, it's just a typical thing to do on a Saturday. You want to spend family time together. What a better way to do it than out in the great outdoors?

[Mike]

Yeah, it's healthy and you get to spend some time together.

[Allison]

Exactly. So by late afternoon, half of the Brink family would be dead. After her parents, Clinton and Kristen were stabbed to death in an act of random violence on a trail that was less than a half mile from the parking area within the state park.

[Mike]

Oh my God. You picture something like deep, deep in the woods and crazy.

[Allison]

Cuz you think about this family of four, they have seven and nine year old daughters. They're not doing an eight mile treacherous hike. They just want to go out and get some fresh air, talk and be together and get some exercise.

[Mike]

Like the hikes we take, Right?

[Allison]

Exactly. Very, very family friendly hikes. So what happened that day at Devil's Den sparked one of the most intense manhunts in Arkansas's history. So people who had previously taken refuge within the great outdoors in nature were suddenly fearing for their lives because this person who did this was out on the loose and they had no idea where he or she was. Are they gonna strike again? Are they staying and targeting people in the parks?

[Mike]

Yeah, especially you say random. It's like usually acts of violence or something.

[Allison]

Targeted, totally random. So Devil's Den is situated in the northwest corner of Arkansas near the Oklahoma border. And it's Nestled within the Ozark Mountains. So within the more than 2500 acres of landscape, much of the park is covered in a thick canopy of oak and hickory trees. So the trails are snaking through these narrow crevices, caves and creeks. Do you say crevice or crevasse?

[Mike]

If I want to have some fun, I say crevasse. If I want to say it real how it's supposed to be said, I say crevice.

[Allison]

Yeah, I always say crevice. And I was watching a thing on Mount Everest and apparently mountain people say crevasse.

[Mike]

Well, I mean, I don't know if.

[Allison]

It'S like a thing.

[Mike]

Mount Everest people are mountain people. I said it, okay? Those are all cheaters. You can't go up a mountain and take frickin ladders. Ladders, yeah, that's cheater.

[Allison]

So although the name Devil's Den, it might sound ominous, for decades, danger and scary stories, they only existed within the park around the campfires. You know, you're telling scary stories as you're camping at night. Otherwise it was a safe space. It was known for its scenic vistas and family friendly hikes rather than danger and murder. So that Saturday afternoon at the Brinks chose to hike along Devil's Den Trail. This is a very popular one and a half mile loop with moderate difficulty. You know, a mile and a half when you're hiking is very little. You're just going out to have fun together. So it was not going to be a treasure treacherous hike, but rather just enough of a challenge so that at the end you feel like you've accomplished something. So since the area is so vast and remote and blanketed with such, you know, thick tree coverage that cell service is oftentimes spotty to non existent within the park. So this is technically in a lot of cases a good thing because it forces campers and hikers to take that disconnect from social media. You know, to constantly be in touch and be distracted from the things around us. And if you have teenage kids, I'm sure you can relate. But I can't tell you how many times at dinner I'm like, guys, put the cell phones down.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's the downfall of a lot of things happening. It's the attention deficit and stuff. It's, it's unfortunate and we, it's in our power to take the phones away. So it's, it's interesting. But really quickly, I did look up on my phone while you were talking about Devil's Den in Arkansas and it's rated really well I go to all trails. It's a app that I use for trails, for hiking anywhere you are. So if you love hiking, definitely download it. It's pretty awesome, but it was rated really well.

[Allison]

I saw that. So it's just this place where people can go and get fresh air, be together, and disconnect, even just for a little while. So Clinton, Kristen, and their girls had only just relocated to the state from North Dakota after Clinton was transferred with Prairie Farms Dairy. So he was scheduled to start his job delivering milk on Monday morning. So a couple days ahead, it's a milkman. Yeah, exactly. So meanwhile, Kristen, who was a registered nurse, she was planning on continuing her career within the medical field. So they were settling into their Prairie Grove home, and everything seemed to be falling into place. So at 2:40pm that afternoon, a call came through the Arkansas State Police after hikers could hear screams of terror through the trees somewhere in the distance. And although it was impossible to pinpoint the exact location, the sheer terror of these screams made it very obvious that something terrible had happened. These were not screams of joy. These were obviously screams of terror. So not knowing what was happening, the hikers, you know, tried their best to immediately call 91 1. But like I said, cell service is spotty to non existent. So park rangers responded within minutes, and they raced down the trails that led to the lower section of Devil's Den Loop. So they came upon two little girls, ages 7 and 9, and both were visibly trembling and sobbing. They were clearly traumatized. So as they managed to get the words out through their terror, they were able to convey that they had been out hiking with their parents when a man with a knife suddenly appeared on their trail. So the man began attacking Clinton first, while Kristen rushed to their daughter's safety before she returned to help her husband. So Kristen screamed to her girls, telling them to run to safety, keep running, and do not look back. So the girls began sprinting down the trail, and they were alone within this thick woodland. They had never been to this place before, and they were completely unsure of what was happening to their parents that they had just run from. But based on what they had witnessed, it was not good.

[Mike]

Talk about going from zero, like just hanging out on the trail with your parents, to absolute fear and terror and anxiety. Every single horrible feeling you could have, right?

[Allison]

So a hiker who came upon the girls about an hour after the attack that day helped them get to safety and then turned around and went back in the direction that they had just come from. So as he went deeper into the Forest. He hoped with everything that he would be able to find the parents and do something to help them before it was too late. So as he came upon Clinton and Kristen, they were each lying on the ground, bleeding after suffering from multiple stab wounds. And he tried desperately to get cell service, but he was unable to. So he was forced to climb to higher ground until he was able to get that signal and then dial 91 1.

[Mike]

It's crazy. Like, knives are almost more dangerous than guns. Like, you can shoot somebody and, like, you hear about a lot of people surviving, you know? But a knife, multiple stab wounds, that's terrible, right?

[Allison]

Because when you come upon somebody and they're just furiously swinging and you're unprepared, I mean, there's little that you can do to protect yourself, right? So by the time first responders reached the couple, they were sadly gone. It was too late. So the medical examiner later documented the defensive wounds that they had suffered on their hands and arms, proving that they'd each tried desperately to protect themselves from this random attacker. So according to the girl's accounts, rather than fleeing to safety, so Kristen had the opportunity. She could have run with her daughters while this person was attacking her husband. Kristen only worried about her daughter's safety and then rushed to her husband's side in an attempt to protect him. So according to their obituaries, Kristen and Clinton shared a marriage that was bound by faith, laughter, and adventure. They lived for the simple joys in life. They often took their daughters out hiking, kayaking. They would take them to theme parks. They just love to be together and connect with one another. So they were each other's best friend, their biggest cheerleader, and their constant teammate through life, whatever that brought them. So Clinton was born on June 14, 1982, and those who knew him would describe him as a kind, gentle, loving, and dependable person. In addition to working as a delivery driver, he was also a certified nursing assistant, and he had only recently been honored employee of the month as a cna. So despite his multiple careers, his wife and his three daughters were truly his greatest achievement in life. So he was a rock to his family. He was a constant support, a comfort, and he loved his family entire, like, with everything, unconditionally. So peace and understanding were so much more important to Clinton rather than pride. And he was someone that would apologize even when he wasn't in the wrong, because really, his biggest thing in life was just harmony within his family. And he didn't have to be the winner of an argument. He just wanted everyone to be Happy and loved.

[Mike]

Well, everybody's at, somewhat at fault for every argument, you know, you can find some peace. Be like, you know, I shouldn't have said it this way, and I'm sorry, right? Sometimes it takes that first person to say I'm sorry to break down the walls.

[Allison]

He just sounded like such a kind peacemaker, just such a great family man, such a great husband and father.

[Special Agent Rebecca Henderson]

My name is special agent Rebecca Henderson.

[NBC Promo Voice]

Thursday on NBC.

[Special Agent Rebecca Henderson]

There was an explosion at a top secret prison. Some of the most infamous killers broke free.

[NBC Promo Voice]

The hunting party is back.

[Mike]

We're going in last.

[NBC Promo Voice]

The stakes have never been higher.

[Special Agent Rebecca Henderson]

The longer they're out there, the more dangerous they're gonna become.

[Mike]

And the killers, what's the flavor of psychopath we're dealing with here?

[Special Agent Rebecca Henderson]

Someone who craves power and control have.

[NBC Promo Voice]

Never been more twisted. This is Next level, the hunting party. Thursday on NBC.

[Grainger Sponsor Voice]

If you're an H VAC technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Allison]

So Kristen, who was born on June 11, 1984. She was described as a vibrant, compassionate soul. In addition to being an rn, she also had a degree in math and she was a volleyball player through high school as well as college. She was a strong, funny woman and just like her husband, her kids and her husband were the center of her world. Like, like I said, they were a simple family. They didn't need to have all these lavish riches. They wanted to be in each other's company.

[Mike]

Well, that's the lavish riches, exactly.

[Allison]

That's, that's our philosophy. It's like, well, we might not be rich in wealth, but we're rich in love. And I know that that sounds super corny, but that's really what's important at the end of the day.

[Mike]

I just always think back to when our son asked the other day, like, what was what? What did you dream about having when you were young? And I was like, what we're doing right now, I was playing catch with him and you were outside watching us, and Reese, our daughter, was inside. It's like, everything I want is with me right now.

[Allison]

Yeah. So when detectives process the scene, combing through the dirt and vegetation, they found a third set of DNA that had not come from Clinton and Kristen. So this suggested that the attacker, of course, who badly swinging a knife, also injured himself. So when the DNA was run through the national and state databases, there were no hits, meaning that this person had no prior felony convictions. So as the investigation team spread throughout the park, and like I said, this is a very vast area, so this is not easy. So they spoke with as many witnesses as they could as quickly as possible because they wanted to talk to people before they wandered off to their cars and drove away in. You know, then they'd be unable to track them down.

[Mike]

Yeah, it could be hours and hours away and never hear the news or whatever.

[Allison]

Right. So I will tell you that many of these witnesses had seen someone or something, you know, on the trail that day. It was a very busy Saturday afternoon. It was a warm day. So many people were out and about. It was filled with families and hikers that were enjoying the day. So it's likely that the man who attacked the couple had fled from the scene covered with blood. So after the attack, odds are someone could have seen him with blood on his face or arms or wherever. So multiple witnesses reported seeing a white man who matched a particular description. So they're hearing the same description from various witnesses that had no connection to one another.

[Mike]

Let's be real, we're all picturing a white man doing this.

[Allison]

Right. So he was of medium build. He wore a long sleeve shirt with sleeves rolled up. He had dark pants, a black baseball hat, sunglasses, and fingerless gloves. And he carried a black backpack.

[Mike]

I mean, this is exactly the type of person you would picture. It's like if you had to draw somebody. Yeah.

[Allison]

So one hiker recalled seeing a man that fit this description, and he did have blood on his face. He was walking in a hurried manner from the direction of where Clinton and Kristen had been attacked. So some witnesses had even seen this man in question climbing into a sporty black four door sedan before he quickly left the park. So thank goodness for that, because not only do they have his description, but also the vehicle he drove off in. So they did say, though, that the car's license plate had been partially obstructed with either electrical tape or duct tape. So not only did witnesses work with investigators to create a composite sketch of this man in question, but a hiker who felt this gut instinct that this guy had been up to no good. And I gave you his description, like the fingerless gloves on an 85 degree day, you might say, well, he wants to protect his hands. Something about him stood out enough to the point that this person had snapped a photo of the back of this guy, really? While he stood among the trees with his backpack on.

[Mike]

Wow. So true crime folks like all of us listening and you know, you know, if you see something weird, just take a picture just in case, Right?

[Allison]

And it just goes to show how much people were paying attention by his strange behavior to the point that they even looked at his license plate. And you know that these people are into true crime because you're listening to this podcast, you're into true crime. We think alike. Like, this guy looks shady. Let's see if we can get his license plate just in case.

[Mike]

Worst case scenario, you never look at it again.

[Allison]

But they had the wherewithal to do that, to tell the investigators he had covered partially his license plate. So it was just eerie to see a photo of this guy before, like he did what he did.

[Mike]

And you know what, also, if you're ever in a parking lot and see something partially covered on a license plate, go ahead, take a picture of it.

[Allison]

Right?

[Mike]

That's probably somebody up to.

[Allison]

No, somebody is up to no good because somebody intentionally did that. Duct tape doesn't just fall onto your license plate, Right.

[Mike]

Or they could be just trying to skirt tolls, but either way, either way it's shady.

[Allison]

So though, although his face wasn't visible in the photo, it did help because it reinforced the clothing that he was wearing, as well as his build and just his hair color, all of that. So for weeks, Devil's Den was closed to the public as the investigation continued and search teams combed over every trail looking for any piece of evidence or clues that could potentially lead them to their killer. So after the photo and composite sketch was released to the media, tips began pouring in from Arkansas and surrounding areas, from as far away as Washington state. So people were terrified hearing that a young couple who had been out in the daytime, you know, in like the 1 o' clock ish hour with their two daughters who are 7 and 9 years old, that they had been randomly and viciously attacked in an unprompted fit of violence, was horrifying to them because we try to take measures to protect ourselves. You know, me as a female, I try not to walk in certain areas outdoors at dark, like on our college campus. I remember I'd have some night classes and it would get out at like 8:45 at night and I'd be walking alone, thinking this Isn't safe. But when you go out on a populated trail in the middle of a Saturday afternoon, you do not expect to be stabbed to death.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's not the middle of the night. It's not a remote location. This is a Saturday afternoon, Tons of people everywhere.

[Allison]

So suddenly now families are canceling their hikes, their camping trips. They are. Now, if they are going out, they're carrying weapons with them because they were not sure where this guy was. So meanwhile, investigators were busy collecting surveillance videos from nearby businesses that were situated along the route to Devil's Den. And thank goodness they had his vehicle description, because now they know what they're looking for.

[Mike]

You look for about an hour in that window, and you try to see that passing by anytime. I work in the video surveillance industry, and it's. There's cameras everywh.

[Allison]

And not to mention the people said, we saw him get into this car. They probably gave them an approximate time. Yeah. So as the footage was examined, they noted a black sedan appearing in multiple locations. And apparently the car had distinguishing features that made it very identifiable.

[Mike]

Oh, good. Idiot. Horrible. You know, piece of crap.

[Allison]

You know how there might be like a dent on one part of the car? So every time they're looking at it, they see that same dent. They're like, okay, that's our car.

[Mike]

Thank goodness for idiot criminals.

[Allison]

So detectives realized that they were still specifically looking for a 2022 Kia Stinger. And this is a sporty four door sedan that fit the witness's description as well as what was seen in the surveillance video. And as they reported, lo and behold, the license plate was partially covered. And maybe that was the distinguishing feature. I'm not entirely sure. So on Wednesday, July 30, this is four days after Clinton and Kristen were murdered. Police identified their suspect. They actually tracked him down and found him at Lapita's Beauty salon in Springdale, Arkansas. And this is 34 miles, or 55 kilometers from Devil's Den. So now they're walking into this salon, and here is a man sitting in the chair with a cape on, getting his hair cut. And he matched the suspect's description. And not only did he match the description, but he also had visible injuries to his hands. And like I said, based on the DNA that they found at the scene, that was from not Clinton and Kristen, he had been injured. Well, here this guy is sitting. It looked like he had been in a violent struggle. So halfway through his haircut, this man was placed in handcuffs and he was arrested.

[Mike]

That's actually hilarious because he Was halfway through. So he probably looks stupid. Oh, I love the cops that did that.

[Allison]

His face scares the out of me. And sorry to swear, but he has a cold darkness in his face. He looks soulless and horrifying.

[Mike]

I mean, we're talking about much worse things than swearing.

[Allison]

So authorities don't believe that he was getting a haircut in an attempt to alter his appearance. Excuse me, appearance. But more likely he was getting ready to start in his new position as a teacher.

[Mike]

Oh my God.

[Allison]

The following week. Cuz school was starting. So this man was 28 year old, Andrew James Mann. He is a teacher who was licensed to work in Arkansas, Texas as well as Oklahoma. So he had no criminal record and he had passed multiple background checks. Only weeks earlier, he had been hired by Springdale public Schools. He was going to start to teach fifth grade in the next week or so. So Andrew had been an unremarkable man who was educated, he was articulate, and he seemed to be the last person who was capable of a vicious double homicide. He blended into a crowd. He could be your neighbor, your co worker, your child's elementary school teacher. So the fact that someone this unhinged and dangerous could make it through interview processes as well as background checks and be responsible for a classroom full of fifth graders who are what, like 12 years old maybe? Sure, in fifth grade 11 is horrifying. People were terrified by this idea. So as investigators looked into his background, they began to see troubling patterns. Although they warrants like, like waving red flags. They were troubling patterns.

[Mike]

Well, yeah, it's always going to be easy to be like, well, he killed somebody, let's see if we can find anything. And like something's going to pop up. Right.

[Allison]

So although his teaching career had been briefed to that point, he had been placed on administrative leaf from an elementary school in flower Mound, Texas, two years earlier in the spring of 2023. So reasons included issues with classroom management, questionable professional judgment, as well as student favoritism. So after colleagues voiced their concerns, McGann was. He resigned under the mounting pressure that he was under. So whatever he was doing was enough that other teachers within the same school went to, you know, the head people, administration to report it. So exactly what his professional or questionable professional judgment was, that's not entirely clear. But it was enough that people spoke up. So after he now left Texas, he began teaching fifth grade at Spring Creek elementary in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. Oklahoma. This is during the 2023, 2024 school year. But once again, he managed to get through the interview process and the background checks before he was hired. So I don't know if they didn't contact the previous school to say, like, oh, how did his employment end? Because there were concerns there. You know, they brought him in and he was put on some kind of plan or whatever to the point that he decided to resign.

[Mike]

Well, the problem is nobody wants to teach because they don't make much money. And especially in the south here of the United States, they don't get paid anything. So they're pretty much like, oh, breathe. Okay, you can teach.

[Allison]

Here you go. So during the 2024, 2025 school year.

[Mike]

And real quick, if there's teachers out there, you are amazing people. I give you all the credit in the world.

[Allison]

100%.

[Mike]

Like, there's. But there's definitely some bad apples in there among you guys. Among every. Just like every place. I love teachers.

[Allison]

Right? No, we have the utmost respect for teachers. I mean, I certainly couldn't do it. As, you know, our kids are in middle school and high school. And the idea of teaching a bunch of these kids that are, you know, so entitled and outspoken and disrespectful to.

[Mike]

Adults and addicted to their phones and put their AirPods all the time, and it's like, man, that's. Yeah, I give it up.

[Allison]

I mean, I give mad prompts to your props. Props. Thank you. I give mad props, not prompts. So now, during the 2024, 2025 school year, he worked at Sand Springs Public Schools in Oklahoma. And at the end of the school year, he resigned from this position so that he could relocate to Arkansas. Why he chose Arkansas, that's not known. So this pattern told investigators that he would get hired within a district, and then concerns would start to come out and he would resign, faced more serious consequences. He would move to an entirely new state where he was unknown, and he could have a fresh start. So obviously I haven't talked to his co workers, but I have a feeling he was probably one of those guys that. In the teacher's lounge while they were together, they're like, he's freaking weird.

[Mike]

There's a teacher of our daughters that.

[Allison]

Reminds me of this guy 100 in first grade. Is that who you're thinking of?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Yes. He sucked. And she had the best first grade teacher. And midway through the year, he took an entirely different job. We were so sad because they got along so well. They were just like besties. He was this elderly guy. He was just amazing. And all of a sudden, this weirdo slides in. And from the Minute he started, there were red flags.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

To the point that we are not the type of people that like contact the school and make complaints and stuff. But we did. We were like, something's going on. And it turned out that pretty much every other parent in that class also had concerns. To the point that some of the kids. Kids were withdrawn from that classroom.

[Mike]

Yeah, it was nothing creepy.

[Allison]

No, it was nothing like where we felt like our daughters was in danger.

[Mike]

Just like piece of crap. Like almost like our daughter knew more than this guy. It was weird.

[Allison]

And then I went to the classroom because I would have Wednesdays off at that point in time. So I would try to be present and volunteer if he needed any assistance. I would go and help him with whatever total freaking weirdo. He was not at all prepared. Even though we had this visit set up for like a week week. And I'm like, okay, how can I help you? And he gives me no supplies and then goes off to have a one on one parent teacher conference.

[Mike]

And like just you're sitting there doing nothing. Like what do I do?

[Allison]

I'm someone that if I'm put to a task, I'm gonna friggin complete it. But you have to give me the necessary supplies. He left me with no tape, but he wanted me to tape things up. So now I am digging through his personal items and I feel highly uncomfortable. Just a freaking weirdo. So the point is, you know, it's scary to think that, that we don't know who's driving our kids school bus. We don't know who's teaching their classes, especially when they're switching classes and they might have six or seven teachers throughout the day.

[Mike]

And then also like you don't know why he was dismissed from these other places or he left. And I'm sure the administration at these other schools don't want it on their resumes either that they hired this weirdo. So it's like, okay, keep it quiet, just let him move out and everything's fine.

[Allison]

Yeah. And even the school who had hired him and he was getting his haircut to start it, they're like, oh, he was a teaching candidate. It's like, no, he just hadn't started yet because the school year hadn't started.

[Talkspace Sponsor Voice 2]

Right.

[Allison]

So despite these red flags and issues within his teaching positions, nothing in his employment history suggested that he was ever capable of a double homicide. An unprompted attack with a knife in a forest with children present. There was nothing that could have ever predicted the random act of violence that he had been Responsible for. Against this family that he had never met. So I'm not saying that these schools did anything wrong because he didn't have a criminal record. You know, how. How no one could know what kind of darkness is lying in someone's brain. So when police searched McGann's car after he gave them permission to do so, they did find blood inside, as well as the DNA from the blood that matched what was found at the crime scene. So obviously, he was injured. Based on the injuries to his body. He was bleeding, and apparently he had confirmed, yes, I did get injured during this attack back. So they also found items in his home that matched evidence from the crime scene. I'm guessing the clothing that he was wearing. So with this overwhelming evidence against him, apparently McGann confessed to police officers. He admitted to killing Clinton and Kristen, but after he obtained a lawyer, he retracted his confession, and then he went on to plead not guilty to two counts of capital murder.

[Mike]

Can you do this?

[Allison]

That? Yeah.

[Mike]

Is it like. Oh, yeah, what I said. Never mind. Yeah, you can just say that.

[Allison]

Well, sure, you can make whatever plea you want. It's ridiculous, the things that happen. You have people on video in an interrogation room saying, yep, I did this, and I picked up this lamp and I smashed them in the head. And then they're like, nope, not guilty.

[Mike]

It's like, wait, you said you were. So we have this evidence against you.

[Allison]

So, Washington county, Arkansas, Prosecuting attorney Brandon Carter indicates that his office will be seeking the death penalty since this crime was so brutal and random and it left three children orphaned. So he is currently facing two counts of capital murder, and they're planning on pursuing the death sentence. So now that an arrest had been made, people were left to wonder why McGann had zero known connection to the Brink family. They had never met. They did not live in the same town. They were both new to the area because he had just relocated. What I say, from Oklahoma, and they had moved from North Dakota. So the attack was entirely random. Sadly, the Brink family had simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person. Had McGann gone to Devil's den that day with the full intention of murdering someone? And the answer is likely yes. Based on the dark clothing that he was wearing and the knife that he was carrying, had it been a robbery gone wrong? Or was he simply just acting out some sick urge or fantasy? And these are questions we might never have the answers to. So as of October of 2025, authorities indicate that they have absolutely no clear motive as McGann, through his attorney, has remained silent. So the randomness of this attack, the fact that this sweet family of four was out walking down a hiking trail in the middle of the afternoon and they were ambushed by a stranger who attacked them completely unprompted has made this tragedy that much more heartbreaking and frustrating. Random violence without provocation suggests that safety is just an illusion and it proves that danger could be lurking anywhere because like I said, there's certain things we can do to protect ourselves. We can lock our doors, we can put an alarm system on, we can avoid walking outside at night, you know, doing things like that, have tons of.

[Mike]

Guns in the house and all that.

[Allison]

Yeah, but this was something that no one could have predicted or have been prepared for.

[Mike]

I guess if you had a gun, that probably would have helped.

[Allison]

I mean, maybe. Yeah. So Clinton and Kristen's two young daughters are now being raised by family members. According to their obituary, their 17 year old daughter is actually married to her 18 year old husband. A GoFundMe account has been started by a family member to help cover funeral costs as well as costs of caring for the couple's two young daughters because they want to make sure through the trauma that they witnessed and losing their parents and so such a horrible way that the last thing that they have to stress about is money to live that Life.

[Mike]

How's the GoFundMe gone?

[Allison]

Did you. I looked a, a bit ago. So thus far when I last checked, 97, 5, 60,000 of their $120,000 goal has been achieved.

[Mike]

Yeah, I mean it's still, that's enough to keep them for a little bit.

[Allison]

For a little bit. But you know, it's, it's a lot to, to raise children. So Clinton and Kristen's two young daughters were key in helping the police find their suspect. Suspect because of the information that they provided through the trauma that they had lived through at only seven and nine years old.

[Mike]

Those poor angels. And it's going to be the rest of their life. They're not going to be regular, you know, well adjusted. You know, they have to remember here.

[Allison]

You know, it's like, will they never go out hiking ever again because they're traumatized? You know, it's like that, that stuff lives deep in our brains and in our hearts. So. James McGann remains in custody without bond. He's awaiting a trial that currently is expected to begin begin on January 15, 2026 in Washington County. Despite the fact that his DNA was found at the scene as well as him matching witness descriptions Surveillance footage of his car, evidence that was found in his home, his alleged confession. He's sitting there maintaining a plea of not guilty.

[Mike]

I mean, this is a perfect, perfect opportunity to have some kind of a large slush fund, you know, by a billionaire, puts it together for a few billion dollars or maybe a few million million. It's like anybody, any prisoner who happens to get rid of this guy whatever way possible, like, you're not paying for a murder, but somehow there's got to be some legalese somewhere. Be like, listen, if something happens and you happen to be in the area, then you get this $500,000 bonus and we can continue spreading that. Like, everybody agrees. Every single person would agree. This guy should be dead immediately. He's useless. Like, he's clearly going to kill somebody else if he's ever let out. So it's like he did a horrible, violent, random crime, and he's got his DNA. Like, this is case closed. Like, kill this guy.

[Allison]

He scares me so bad. Like, even just his more recent appearance in court, which was November 14, 2025, he's. They ruled that he's allowed to wear civilian clothing rather than his orange jumpsuit.

[Mike]

What the hell?

[Allison]

Why. Why are we giving him any yeses?

[Mike]

He has no rights.

[Allison]

Like, as far as you have no freaking rights. You just stabbed a couple to death in front of their little children, and you get to wear your civilian clothes so that you don't look like a prisoner. Prisoner. Sorry, buddy. You freaking slash two people to death. You are a prisoner.

[Mike]

He looks like a. Like he's got that cauliflower head or whatever.

[Allison]

I don't. I don't know about that. But cauliflower hair. Oh, hair.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Okay. But his. The look on his face is terrifying. And even when he was being led through in his civilian clothing, he looked horrifying to me. I don't know what kind of chameleon face he can put on. In the presence. Yeah, that face.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Allison]

In the presence of parents. You know, when you're in fifth grade and you're doing parent teacher conferences, clearly he's not sitting in the room like this. But I don't know what kind of face he does present.

[Mike]

You know, most people are listening to us and not looking at.

[Allison]

Well, if you're watching us on YouTube, I'm making. Or if you're not watching us on YouTube. I just made a very cold face.

[Mike]

You did. It was scary to me.

[Allison]

But the point is, some people are chameleons, and, you know, you can reference somebody like Ted Bundy and He looked like a completely normal guy. But then there's that one photo of him in the courtroom screaming and the, the, the, the veil just dropped from his face and the true nature of what he looked like came back out. That scares the crap, crap out of me.

[Mike]

Yeah, but I mean every picture of this loser. He looks like a psychopath.

[Allison]

He looks like a psychopath. But obviously he didn't look like a psychopath. I hope not in front of the interview board that hired him to teach elementary school. Clearly he had to have presented himself in a different manner. So right now there is a gag order to limit pre trial publicity. So the Brink family was doing what so many of us do on the weekend. They utilize that time because we work all week long, long to reconnect with a family, go out and do something together. So they were not only just enjoying each other's company, but they were doing what they love to do. They were enjoying the beauty of nature within their new home of Arkansas, when suddenly a madman in fingerless gloves came upon them swinging a knife.

[Mike]

You know, I keep forgetting that he's young and I looked at his picture. If I saw this kid, I call him a kid because I'm 28, more 46. He looks like a kid. Like he could be friends with one of our kids basically. Basically, like I know, not that age, but just kind of looks in that area.

[Allison]

Right. Our son's 17.

[Mike]

Yeah. You know, and if I'm sure if I came upon him and a trail, I'd just be like, oh, just some kid walking around. If he's already next to you and he's got a knife, like, you're dead.

[Allison]

Right? You're dead. That's the point. And that's how it happened. Was so unprompted that Clinton was just walking by. He probably even said, hey, afternoon. Right, whatever.

[Mike]

Even if Clinton did have a gun, like if he's like just not showing you the knife, like I guarantee he wasn't 200 yards away being like, I have a knife, watch out. He probably was like just walking and looking like mean or whatever and just.

[Allison]

Kind of literally just sliced him.

[Mike]

Oh gosh.

[Allison]

It all happened so fast. And that's why I said we can take the precaution to protect ourselves. But in some cases, even if you had a gun on you and someone suddenly slashed your throat, you know, you don't have the time to react and take it out.

[Mike]

Like this guy doesn't deserve any kind of protections or anything. While in prison, like there's just forget to watch him or something and let somebody do something, turn your back.

[Allison]

So they had never, never seen this man's face before. Yet without prompting, for whatever reason, which we might never have the answers to, psychosis, mental breakdown, don't know. A deadly attack began. And rather than running to safety, Kristen had that opportunity. She could have done that. She died trying to protect her partner in life, the father of her three children. Clinton and Kristen died heroes. They died together protecting their daughter to the bitter end of their lives. And that is a sad and tragic case. Excuse me. Of the murders of Clinton and Kristen Brink.

[Mike]

That's okay.

[Allison]

So it's just so hard because these are the things that we do as a family together. We. We want to connect to our kids. And like I said, we're all working, we're all distracted. They're in school, They've got their devices. We like to go into the great outdoors and hike. And you just don't think you're gonna pass a person on a trail and they're gonna start swinging a knife at you.

[Mike]

No. Because near 100 of those people, same thing, right?

[Allison]

And that's what scares the crap out of me about this case, is that there's really nothing that Clinton and Kristen could have done differently.

[Mike]

And I know Clinton and Kristen would rather have died non heroes or not died. And not be here. Right. And still be mother and father. Like, that's the best thing ever as far as I'm concerned. If you're able. And it's just so incredibly sad. I'm so sorry for their families, their children. Like everybody, the community. Just some rant. Like, I guarantee you there's some crap in this guy's past. Oh.

[Allison]

I mean, there has to be that. That there were definitely signs. There were had to signs. Just the look on his face and what he did. I guarantee you he's one of those guys that people are like, he's got bodies buried in his basement.

[Mike]

Absolutely. You know that he cuts.

[Allison]

Say that about somebody, but what do you do about it? You got this co worker, you're like, he's a freaking weirdo. He hasn't done anything. What do you do about it? Nothing.

[Mike]

It's kind of like stalking. Like you can't do anything until that person does something to you.

[Allison]

Unfortunately. Yeah.

[Mike]

Horrible. That's. I hope this guy dies immediately.

[Allison]

So, so horrible. I mean, you could say anything. Innocent until proven guilty. He freaking confessed his d. You know, you could say that. But the trail trial has yet to happen.

[Mike]

This is a perfect scenario where the. The commissioner of death myself comes in and just says, okay, enough of the bs, man. No trials. Don't spend money, don't spend resources. Just like, light them on fire or I'd slash them. I don't know. Somebody bring a chainsaw. I don't know, whatever. Anybody? Like, do we have volunteers? How do you want to get rid of them? That's fine. Here's 10 bucks. Go do it.

[Allison]

And there are a lot of cases that require a trial because there's un unknown circumstances. The evidence isn't solid. In this case, it is so black and white. We pretty much can say how this outcome is going to turn out once we waste this time to go through a trial and then dig up all the anguish of this family who lost Clinton and Kristen, drag them through that.

[Mike]

Process, create more stress and anxiety, and.

[Allison]

It'S such a waste.

[Mike]

Yeah, you're a scumbag. Yeah, you're a terrible scumbag, Andrew. Yeah. Andrew again.

[Allison]

Yes. So, anyway, you guys, thank you so much for being here with us, for listening. We appreciate each and every one of you so much. Mike's just doing the little hand shear. Yay.

[Mike]

That's if it was above my head to be like, yay, I'm a champion. Yay.

[Allison]

And if you're caught up and looking for more content and if you just believe in us and want to support us, we do have bonus episodes every single Wednesday. You can find us over on Apple podcast subscriptions or Patreon.

[Mike]

And if you don't have the money for for it, just the free way to help us is just subscribing to everything and making sure on those podcast players that you press that plus button so you're subscribed and following us.

[Allison]

And if you want to see our ugly mugs, head on over to YouTube and you can see us.

[Mike]

Yeah, look at us.

[Allison]

But we thank you and we hope you guys are having a happy and healthy 2026 thus far. And until next time, bye.

[Mike]

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.