The murders of Rick and Gail Brink | Ep 223

Summary

---

Crime and Coffee Couple – True Crime Podcast

Episode 223: The Murders of Rick and Gail Brink

Hosts: Allison & Mike
Date: December 14, 2025

---

Overview & Main Theme

In this episode, Allison and Mike explore the tragic and long-unsolved case of Rick and Gail Brink, a young married couple brutally murdered in their Holland, Michigan home in 1987. The case—marked by an absence of evidence and witnesses— went cold for over two decades before being cracked open by advances in cold case investigations. The episode delves into the couple's backgrounds, the circumstances of the crime, the emotional weight on their families, and the shocking twist that led to resolution: the deep betrayal within their own family.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Brinks' Life and Sudden Loss

• Rick and Gail’s Story:
  • Rick (28) and Gail (22) recently married, buying a fixer-upper home and planning for a family.
  • "They had just started their journey through life together... the world was your oyster." (Allison, 11:08)
• Day of Discovery (09:13 - 16:26):
  • November 23, 1987: Both fail to show up for work; Rick's parents find Rick dead in his parked car, and police find Gail shot in bed.
  • "It's a worst nightmare... Ida nearly collapsed at the sight of her son." (Allison, 15:21)
• Crime Scene Details:
  • No sign of forced entry or struggle; valuables untouched.
  • Immediate suspicion that the murders were not random or for profit.

2. Initial Investigation & Community Fear

• Lack of Suspects and Evidence (18:05 – 19:28):
  • Two unknown fingerprints, but nothing further.
  • DNA technology was nascent—no CODIS system yet, so the leads ran dry.
• Community Reaction:
  • Holland, MI is a small, tight-knit, church-going Dutch community; residents rattled by the brutality and apparent lack of motive.
  • Discussion of past cases in the area and the terror of a possible serial killer (19:28 – 27:16).

3. The Biker Connection: A Dead-End Lead

• The property’s previous owner, “Shotgun Sid”, was a motorcycle gang member and police informant.
• Investigators consider mistaken identity as a motive (22:21 – 23:51), but "even with Sid's help... investigators were once again led down a dead end." (Allison, 23:51)

4. Cold Case Breakthrough – The Family Secret

• 24 Years Later – Reinvestigation (30:21 – 32:28):
  • Advances in technology and persistence lead to renewed interviews.
  • Gail’s sister Cheryl recalls Ryan (Gail’s brother) making disturbing comments after the murders, e.g., “sometimes I wonder if I could have done this.” (31:04)
• Scrutiny of Ryan Weingarten (32:28 – 36:56):
  • Ryan's alibi (via wife Pam) falters under renewed questioning.
  • Investigators speak with ex-girlfriend Crystal, who reveals Ryan confessed incest with Gail and showed obsessive behaviors.

5. Shocking Confessions & Motive Exposed

• Ryan’s Confession to Ex & Motive (36:56 – 39:09):
  • Ryan’s long-term sexual abuse of his sister. He became “tearful talking about the last time [he] was intimate with his sister... It’s so, so disturbing.” (Allison, 37:33)
  • Motive emerges: fear of being exposed and jealousy of Gail’s new life.
• Pam’s Testimony (39:31 – 47:09):
  • Years later, Pam admits Ryan left her that night, had no real alibi, and confessed the murders to her—threatening her if she ever told.
  • She saw both bodies and kept the secret out of fear for herself and her child.
  • “For 25 years, she kept Ryan’s secret under lock and key. She never spilled a word.” (Allison, 43:49)

6. Arrest and Trial

• Arrest & Indictment (49:17 – 56:28):
  • Ryan arrested in 2013—over 25 years after the murders.
  • No direct physical evidence, but overwhelming witness testimony (Pam, Crystal, family members), and incriminating statements secured a conviction.
• Courtroom Antics:
  • Ryan is combative, insists on innocence, yells in court, blames others for his downfall.
  • “He just can’t control himself, obviously.” (Allison, 53:14)
• Family’s Grief & Lasting Trauma:
  • Some, like their mother, continued to believe Ryan was innocent until her death; others, like Cheryl, accepted the painful truth.

7. Related & Unrelated Cases

• Murders in the Vicinity:
  • Other area murders (Deb Wilson, Deborah Polinsky) initially considered for connection but later resolved or remain unsolved (Deb Wilson’s killer identified posthumously; Polinsky's case still open but with new DNA evidence).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There was blood everywhere in the car… Rick had died from two bullet wounds to the head.” – Allison (15:16)
• “Could you imagine your son just laying there in his own car? That’s—” – Mike (15:16)
• “If Ryan couldn’t have his own sister, no one could.” – Allison (39:15)
• “This guy sucks. Horrible. This is his brother-in-law.” – Mike (42:30)
• “For 25 years, she kept Ryan’s secret under lock and key. She never spilled a word.” – Allison (43:49)
• “Go to hell. Go straight to hell. I wish there was this open door... It’s just like a trap door like you see. Yep.” – Mike (56:39, 56:43)
• “They had only been married for 18 short months when their dead bodies were discovered at the home… everything was taken from them by someone they should have been able to trust." – Allison (60:10)

---

Important Timestamps

• Start of Case Discussion: 09:13
• Discovery of Bodies: 15:16
• Brutal Crime Scene Details: 16:23
• Investigation Roadblocks/Case Goes Cold: 18:05–19:28
• Cold Case Reopening & Family Suspicion: 30:21–32:28
• Ryan’s Confessed Incest & Jealousy: 36:56–39:09
• Pam’s Testimony - Break in the Case: 39:31–47:09
• Arrest & Courtroom Drama: 49:17–54:09
• Verdict and Aftermath: 56:27–57:11
• Community Impact and Related Cases: 57:46–60:38

---

Tone, Delivery & Banter

• The hosts balance respect for the victims with relatable banter and dark humor—sometimes expressing exasperation at the criminals or decisions made (“You’re such a badass shooting people that are defenseless…” – Mike, 46:26).
• Allison’s research-driven narration grounds the facts, while Mike’s interruptions and commentary echo the listener’s reactions (“That is not the case at all… So you guys know, I’m always amazed when I see these videos online of these guys just building crap.” – Mike, 11:27–11:39).
• Both express sympathy for family and frustration at the long wait for justice.

---

Takeaways

• The case highlights the heartbreak of unsolved murders, the failings and power of memory, and the horrific consequences when those closest betray their own.
• The persistence of investigators and the eventual courage of witnesses—Pam and Crystal—were critical to breaking a 25-year wall of silence.
• The true crime community is reminded that justice, while often delayed, can eventually prevail.

---

Transcript

[A]

Healthcare can feel complicated. That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make healthcare easier, more affordable, and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what your benefits cover and to help you better manage your health. We're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler healthcare is always possible. That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit optum.com to learn more.

[B]

This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping. And this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with the RealReal.

[A]

I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal.

[C]

Game changer.

[A]

I earn more.

[C]

And they do everything.

[B]

Sell seriously. Just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our 38 million members.

[A]

And I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere else.

[B]

Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The RealReal earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now, you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com.

[C]

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Crime and Coffee Couple. My name's Alison.

[D]

And my name's Mike, Excitedly waving to the camera. Hello, Alison.

[C]

How's it going?

[D]

Good. How are you?

[C]

I'm afraid when I wave my chicken flab under my arm will just be.

[D]

Like, well, that's because you're chubby. And that's okay. I still love you. Yeah, you're a chubby little girl and you're my wife, so that's okay. I'm just kidding, folks. I'm just kidding. She's beautiful. I love her no matter what.

[C]

You know, there's a lot of people who have absolutely no idea what we look like, right?

[D]

So you can head on over to YouTube if you wanted to do that, and check us out. You're not going to see a whole lot as far as Mike is concerned. That's me, Allison. She's cute. So enjoy.

[C]

Well, thank you, Mike. So what's up with you? What's new?

[D]

Well, you gave me one minute to talk about this topic because oftentimes before the show we say, well, what are you going to talk about this week? And I come up with something super boring. And you're like, don't talk about it too long because it's kind of boring. And I'm like, okay, I'll try to keep it under a minute. So here we go. I've been recently jogging more because I'm trying to get a better heart, a more stronger heart, better VO2 max. Max is what the. The metric is called that I'm trying to follow. And yeah, jogging two days a week. Zone two cardio, if you guys have ever heard of that. It's. I. I hate jogging. I fricking hate running. And I. The zone 2 cardio is like, easier. It's. It's almost too easy. You're like, how the hell is this helping me at all? But it absolutely is. So I don't know. I'm gonna try it out. And I ran today, did some like 4x4 Norwegian things. I don't know. It's just whatever it says to try to raise your VO2 max. And I'm feeling really good about myself. So it's one weekend, so who knows? Check on me in 20 weeks.

[C]

Y. You just have to stick with it because at this point in time, where we are in our lives, we're 46 years old. We just want to be healthy age. Well, that sort of thing. I'm not wearing some little yellow polka dot bikini or anything like that.

[D]

You could. And you're pretty cute.

[C]

I'm not going to do that.

[D]

Why not?

[C]

Because I just don't want to.

[D]

Okay, that's fine.

[C]

I'm more about just wanting to age.

[D]

Well, I was really kind of testing you to see if it was like, I'm at the age. Whatever. It's like, wear whatever the heck you want.

[C]

Oh, I will. Don't you worry. I mean, again, I'm at the age where I'm just popping tattoos all over my body. I'm gonna do what I want to do if it's what I want to do.

[D]

Yeah. Got 30 or 40 of them.

[C]

I just don't want to wear a bikini.

[D]

Yeah, that's all right. And another thing in my life, if I may, is every couple days I try to do a TikTok, just something new. And I looked on Netflix and they had like, the number one documentary was about the marksman's or something. Whatever Carmen says. The Carmen family name. C A R M A N. So they were like, hey, you know, I was like, I think I'm gonna go ahead and do a little quick minute 30 TikTok. And I did it. And Allison's like, oh, what was it about? And I was like, the Carmen family and his grandpa, John Chalos, was a real estate developer. And Allison's like, oh, my gosh, we did that one. And I have zero recollection of us doing it ever. So that's the kind of guy I am. A lot of our longtime listeners know what they're dealing with. I have zero short term memory or long term. I think just zero memory.

[C]

If it makes you feel any better, I think it's been about two and a half years since we covered that episode. But you remember I did. As soon as you started telling me this story, I was like, wait a second. We did that episode?

[D]

Yeah, I researched it, and I was like, I mean. I mean, did it sound familiar? They all kind of. Unfortunately, you know, these things blend a little bit.

[C]

I mean, they all end in tragedy, really. Most of the time.

[D]

Yeah. So, yeah, that was. That was kind of defeating. But, hey, you know what? I just got to be who I am, and that's all that I am.

[C]

That's all we can. Any of us could be.

[D]

Yeah. So what's new with you?

[C]

Just, you know, getting ready for the holidays. I'm trying not to scramble, so I'm doing Christmas shopping. This episode comes out mid December, but we're recording early, so I've just been trying to stay ahead of the game. Otherwise, I have to tramp down my anxiety if I don't do that.

[D]

You gotta tramp it down.

[C]

Yeah. And I see you looking at your mug, wondering what I've poured you.

[B]

What the.

[C]

Not cyanide, I'll tell you that. It's sparkling water. It's the peach Waterloo. Yeah, Peach Waterloo. And then there's these bonsai drinks we get from Kroger, which, by the way, Kroger is no longer going to deliver to Florida come February.

[D]

That's BS that is ruining Allison's, like, entire life.

[C]

I use them all the time, probably twice a week for delivery. But they have these bonsai drinks. They're sweetened with an artificial sweetener. I'm not sure which one, but they're like, 10 calories, super flavorful. They're a bit sweet for me, so I like to mix them with sparkling.

[D]

Because I was looking at it, and it sounds like it tastes. Looks flavorful or it tastes flavorful, and it looks like cola. So I was, like, kind of expecting cola, and I tasted. I'm like, this tastes like you could be poisoning me.

[C]

Well, I could be. And sometimes today when we got into our little tiffs, I felt like poisoning you.

[D]

Yeah. Well, maybe you shouldn't be so mean. Maybe, maybe that would happen and then the problem.

[C]

Is that really the problem?

[D]

You know, let's just say you were mean and I was mean back, and then here we are. So now we're. Now we're sitting on our bed laying.

[C]

It, and it doesn't look like cola. It's actually purple if you look at the color.

[D]

Oh, well, it's in a coffee cup. So we are the crime and coffee couple. Why the hell isn't there coffee in here?

[C]

Because sometimes we record at 3:23pm And I'm the type of person, if I drink caffeine later in the day, then it's going to affect my sleep.

[D]

We're breaking the third wall. Like, the people watching might be like, oh, crime and coffee couple. There's coffee. But like, should we be the crime and like, soda couple? That's stupid.

[C]

I know. And I think about like the Today show sometimes they would be like, that's not coffee in my mug. It's not like they're saying alcohol, but it might be water, something like that. But you have no idea. It's like my girlfriends were at the airport and they wanted to take wine onto an airplane, which to me, it's kind of ridiculous that you could purchase an insanely priced glass of wine in an Airport, say $20, and then you cannot bring it onto the airplane. Why?

[D]

Really?

[C]

No.

[D]

In the airport, like past security.

[C]

Oh, yeah, we were past security. So they put it in the takeaway coffee mugs. So they were like pretending to blow.

[D]

On it, like, oh, because it's alcohol. Yeah.

[C]

But you could buy alcohol on the airplane.

[D]

Well, yeah, I don't. I'm trying to decipher because I know I've taken coffee on the plane before, so I think that, you know, I don't. It doesn't make any sense.

[C]

There was this one article about, or maybe it was a tick tock or Instagram reel that I saw where a pilot was saying that this one couple got out of hand because the. The husband was completely lit on the flight.

[D]

I used to get bombed in airports. That was a lot of fun.

[C]

But people were commenting on it saying, you know, they really should eliminate alcohol from airports because the root of most of the problems that you see, where the air marshals have to step in or they have to emergency land a plane, the bottom line is most of those people are intoxicated.

[D]

Yeah, pretty much the same everywhere. Whether it's a sporting event or whatever. It might be like college dorms yeah.

[C]

But it's different in the air because you're like what, 30,000ft up in the sky? Like, you don't want to have an emergency when you're in that type of situation. If you're at the mall or a football game, you can take someone and escort them out or leave. You know, you don't have to land a plane at an airport you weren't intending to go to. That really does make sense. But I guess they would be losing a crap ton of money if you took into account across all the countries and whatever that there's airports that sell.

[D]

Alcohol and that's what America's all about. As long as we're making money, everything's fine.

[C]

Yep.

[D]

Real quick, before we get on, I know we're right at that moment, but if you're watching this on YouTube, there's this new feature called Hype. So if you can hype us, I think it's right near the like button. You can only do that for the first six or seven days that a video is available. And if you do that, I think you get us like thousands of points because we're a smaller creator and you can get us higher on the charts. So go ahead and find the Hype button. It might only be on the mobile app. I should have looked into it before. I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, we'll look into it. But we do appreciate it so much because we really are trying to grow in general, we're trying to grow our YouTube channel.

[D]

Yeah. This holiday season, go ahead and tell all your friends and family about the crime and coffee couple.

[C]

When you're gathering over the punch bowl or the cheese ball, tell them about us.

[D]

Hey, I heard about an interesting murder recently and everybody will gather around.

[C]

Well, you know how it is with true crime. I mean, you start talking about true crime, most people will stop and listen.

[D]

Yeah. Because it's morbid curiosity.

[C]

Yeah. I always remember being a kid and it'd be Friday night and Dateline would come on and inevitably I would just be like sucked in.

[D]

Because we want to know why these people would do what they.

[C]

Right. So on that note, are you ready to dive into this cup of coffee? Yep. So this is the murders of Rick and Gail Brink. So worry about the well being of Rick and Gail Brink began on the morning of Monday, November 23, 1987. This was only three days before Thanksgiving when both Rick and Gail had not shown up for their respective jobs. And then their family members who learned about this were thus unable to get a hold of them. So Rick's parents went and drove over to the couple's house. They lived in Park Township in Holland, Michigan. And they saw something that no parent should ever see. So not only were their lives forever shattered from that moment on, but it would take decades, decades to dig up a long buried secret that revealed the horrifying truth behind the deaths of Rick and Gail Brink that no one could have ever imagined. This is a crazy case. So strap on in. So three years before this tragic moment, a 25 year old Rick Brink, he was going about a typical work day in 1984 and he heard the infectious laugh of his 19 year old co worker. This is Gail Weingarten and she had long hair, she had an athletic build. And as they got to talking and getting to know each other and developing a relationship, Rick knew in his heart that this was truly the girl that he was destined to marry. So after dating for two years, Rick and Gail got married in 1986. They had a small ceremony. They were surrounded by all of their loved ones. And then after a reception at their country club, the couple headed out on a romantic honeymoon cruise. So on returning from their honeymoon, they started to build their lives together. They started with buying a new home and they found a fixer up a ranch that was at 14947 Ransom Street. It was situated on a large piece of property. They actually had 20 acres of land. So Rick was convinced that though this was a fixer upper, it did need work, that he could transform this place into their dream home. And since he worked for a furniture store where he would train carpenters, he was a handy guy. He knew how to do a lot of this work. He was confident that he would be able to handle the renovations themselves. While Gail worked in the office of an auto parts company.

[D]

He sounds exactly like me. Somebody that can just build something with their own hands.

[C]

You know, you're just out in the garage at your tool bench, you got your bench saws, all that stuff.

[D]

That is not the case at all.

[C]

So you guys know, I'm always amazed when I see these videos online of these guys just building crap.

[D]

Me too.

[C]

The comedian Sebastian Maniscalco. Why do I always say that? Am I, you know, every time I question myself? But he was talking about how he has to hire someone to do everything.

[D]

Yeah, I need a guy.

[C]

It helps that he's loaded. But he was saying that some of his friends, he'll just pop over and he'll be like, well, what are you doing today? And he's like, oh, I built a deck he's like, you built a deck today. I took a nap.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So he, Rick felt very confident that he could do this, and he did. So By October of 1987, this is one month before Rick suddenly failed to show up for work. The papers were signed, the house was theirs, and they started their renovation projects. They were super excited. So room by room, they began to transform their home to fit their needs. And all the while Rick was documenting their progress with his camcorder. And these videos, you know, were likely there so that they could one day show their children what their house looked like before they got started and, and what they were like before they had kids. So their footage depicted a young, happy couple. They had just started on their journey through life together. And if any are married, and if you have been for a long time, you think back to those days and there were just so fresh and new and just exciting because the world was your oyster. So by November, the renovations were nearly finished and Gail and Rick began to discuss the idea of taking one of the rooms and designing it to eventually serve as a nursery. But sadly, only after a year and a half of marriage, their lives suddenly came to a violent end. And they never got the chance to live out any of their dreams. They were married for a total of 18 months. So on Saturday, November 21, 1987, 28 year old Rick and 22 year old Gail, they headed out to a wedding of one of Rick's high school friends. It was really nearby, it was at a Holiday Inn just near their home. So while they celebrated that night, they were surrounded by people that they loved. They were having a great time and no one could have ever fathomed that this would be the last time any of them would see the couple alive. So after the reception, Rick and Gail, they headed back to their home, likely ready for bed. They were probably tired. They had had so much fun and they were looking forward to a quiet Sunday at home. So since they were both exceptionally responsible people, when they each hadn't shown up for work on Monday morning, this is November 23rd, this is two days after they were last seen at that wedding, co workers were immediately concerned for their well being. So after Gail failed to show up, her employers actually called Rick's work, only to be told that he also hadn't shown up for work that day. And this is when Rick's boss decided to contact his parents. This is Garrett and Ida Brink. So as soon as Garrett and Ida heard the news that they were unable to reach or, excuse me, they heard the news and Then they started calling them and they were unable to get through. They were immediately concerned. They knew in their hearts that something must be terribly wrong. So they jumped into their car and they drove to their home on the outskirts of town to check on them. And as soon as they pulled in, they saw that Rick's SUV was sitting there, parked in the driveway. So they parked their own car, they got out, and they started to walk in the direction of the couple's home. They didn't even make it to the front door before their lives would shatter forever. So as they began to start to walk past Rick's Chevy Blazer, they noticed that someone was slumped over in the driver's seat, leaning towards, like over towards the passenger side. And as they got closer, they realized in horror that it was their son. And blood was everywhere in the car. And Rick had died from two bullet wounds to the head.

[D]

Oh, my God. Could you imagine your son just laying there in his own car? That's.

[C]

It's a worst nightmare. And Ida nearly collapsed at the sight of her son. And although he might be 28 years old, this was her baby boy, and he was dead from an apparent execution. So obviously we know that Rick is now dead in the driveway. Where is Gail? It's not going to be good. So Garrett and Ida immediately called the police. And while some sources indicate that Garrett rushed into the house, desperate, you know, to find and see what was going on with their daughter in law, others report that it was a local police that had first gone inside. So when investigators did examine the home, they found no signs of forced entry or a struggle. However, when they entered Rick and Gail's bedroom, it was terrible. They found Gail lying on their waterbed with a blood soaked pillow covering her face. And when the pillow was moved away, they saw that she had been shot in the head three times.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Likely while she was laying there in bed, potentially asleep and unaware of even the potential threat that was about to happen.

[D]

This is something extremely violent, Brutal, brutal.

[C]

So not only there were there no signs of 4 century, but it appeared that nothing had been stolen from their home, including 500 that was in plain view. Gail's jewelry or Excuse. Yeah, their jewelry. Both of them. So it was very clear that this was likely not a robbery.

[D]

I mean, sounds like they had an enemy of some sort and like you got to look into what was happening.

[C]

Right. So for a second, investigators briefly wondered if maybe Rick had shot his sleeping wife and then gone out to the car to take his own life in a murder suicide situation that's my first thought. But that was immediately ruled pulled out because the murder weapon wasn't near Rick. So we know that he couldn't have done that.

[D]

Right.

[C]

So the driver's side window was slightly open. Maybe it was almost like if he was talking to somebody through the window. And there was bullet wounds to the left side of Rick's head because, again, he was shot twice. And the passenger side window had a bullet hole through it because when it exited his body. So just as with the house, nothing was taken from Rick. He had his ring in place, his wallet was there. It had cash and credit cards. So that confirmed the idea that this had not been a robbery gone wrong. So since there was no murder weapon whatsoever, there was no bullet casings. I believe there were two bodies, but they were within the victims. There were no strands of hair or obvious. Yeah, what did I say?

[D]

Bodies.

[C]

Oh, there were two bullets inside their bodies. My mistake. So there was no strands of hair or obvious DNA that was left behind, other than six usable prints, but four of these belonged to Rick and Gail. So basically, what I'm saying is investigators were left with very little to go off of.

[D]

So six usable prints. Four of them were Rick and Gail. So two that weren't.

[C]

Right.

[D]

So that's something. But, man, that's. My mind's automatically going to. Was it like an ex boyfriend, a Gail, or, you know, was there money owed? Like, this is, like, crazy, right?

[C]

This is a brutal type of a murder that you see only in extreme cases, passion. So according to their loved ones, the young couple had absolutely no known enemies. I mean, when Rick met Gail, she was 19 years old, right? They were young. So they could only wonder who would possibly want to execute this lovely couple. So with the two fingerprints that didn't belong to the couple, they were run through the police database, but they weren't a match. However, being only 1987, DNA technology was in its infancy. The CODIS database didn't yet exist. DNA was first introduced as evidence in the United States criminal court system one year earlier, in 1986. But again, with the FBI's national database, the CODA system, that wasn't introduced until 1998, which was 11 years after Rick and Gail were murdered. So, sadly, because of the lack of evidence, this case went cold very quickly. So witnesses who last saw the couple on Saturday night, who were at that wedding reception, they indicated that when they left, it was about 11pm and they were in fantastic spirits. They weren't mad at each other. There was nothing going on that seemed to be Stressing them out.

[D]

Yeah. You're trying to think of anything that might lead to maybe what happened.

[C]

Right. So when Gail's brother Ryan called her on Sunday morning and never got a reply, he only assumed that she was just busy. And it's likely from what the autopsy and investigation show that they were likely murdered shortly after they came home from that wedding. So meanwhile, residents within the town of Holland, Holland, Michigan, they were terrified because there was a brutal, excuse me, brutal killer that was out on the loose. I mean, again, no one can think of anything that or anyone that would have harmed this couple. So it could be a psychopath that's just walking up to home shooting people.

[D]

Yeah. You don't know for sure. Odds are it's probably something they know somehow, some way. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to go outside.

[C]

So. In 1987, there was a population of about 25, 000 people in Holland. This is a town that's known for its Dutch heritage. Along the shores of Lake Macatawa, near Lake Michigan.

[D]

I've been there twice for work. I really. Yeah. For some random reason. Now you remember Holland, Michigan, when you've been there, and I used to have some customers there and. Yeah, nice town. Know all these murders happen there? Unfortunately, yeah.

[C]

We covered a case that happened back in 1979. It was the case of Janet Chandler. She was working at a motel in the area. So that was what, however, many years earlier. I can't do math. So Gail and her seven siblings, they were raised by their parents, Wendell and Dorothea Winegarden. And the family of 10 were said to be exceptionally close. Wendell was a World War II veteran and he worked at a furniture company for 26 years. The family attended Central Church each and every Sunday. Wendell sang in the choir there, and the family were said to be very well respected. They were church going people. They were trusted among their neighbors. So the, the point is, it's not like these. These people lived a life of crime. So of all the family and friends that police interviewed, no one could think of a single person who would have held a grudge against the couple. You know, this couple were, they were just hard working, they were young, they were trying to renovate their home. They were, they wanted to have children and grow old together. That was basically the extent of it. So according to Gail's brother Ryan, he said they were the nicest people in the world. I've never seen a couple get along better than they did. So there was also nothing to suggest that they were tied to any illegal Activities. But investigators tried to examine any possibility. They even considered the idea of a case of mistaken identity. And the reason for that. And it was a good reason. So the property that they had purchased, it previously belonged to this biker. I guess he was, like, part of this biker gang. And he was known among this biking. Biking gain. As gang. Easy for me to say. As Shotgun Sid. And he was said to have been involved in Michigan's criminal underworld. So as part of this motorcycle game gang called the Highwayman, they trafficked illegal drugs from Detroit.

[D]

Oh, definitely a possibility.

[C]

Right. So eventually, Sid's conscience kicked in, and rather than continuing to sell drugs, he started to secretly work with the feds, and he was providing them with information about dealers that were specifically targeting children.

[D]

Oh, that's cool.

[C]

So because of his assistance, people did not like him.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And his life was actually in danger.

[D]

And he's a stool pigeon.

[C]

Right. So he had been shot at on more than one occasion. One time actually happened while he was living at the home that Gail and Rick now lived in. So what happened during this situation was. Is that he was also armed. So he somehow managed to calm this situation down, and nobody ended up being shot. So it came to light. Light. Excuse me. That the men were there for a car that Sid had been hiding as leverage for an unpaid drug debt. So since Sid was no longer earning this money illegally, he was unable to afford the house. So the bank eventually foreclosed on it. And there, Rick and Gail swooped in, and they got this opportunity to purchase this property at a much lower price than it was actually worth. Birth. So the police questioned. Maybe someone had gone out to the property, thinking that Sid still lived there. And that's very logical.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So maybe someone mistakenly killed innocent people.

[D]

Well, I mean, they have nothing else to go on, so.

[C]

Right. That's pretty much it. So. However, even with Sid's help, though, investigators were once again led down a dead end. They could not find anything that was related to that.

[D]

All right. I would think their co workers. You know, obviously, you talk to them.

[C]

Right? And they did. They talked to everybody and former co.

[D]

Workers, too, where they met. You know, you got to think if there's somebody that was really into her, and then, you know, maybe he stole her from them or whatever it might be. I don't. I'm. I'm thinking of the next lover. We'll see.

[C]

Right. So only one month after Rick and Gail's murder, a woman was found dead in her home only a half mile away on December 23rd. So a na. A man named Rock Wilson. He finished his midnight shift at a steel factory, and rather than going home, his company was hosting a Christmas party. You might think that's insane, that he's leaving work around midnight and going to a Christmas party, but when you work that shift, I guess it's just what you do. So his 30 year old wife, this is Deb Wilson, she didn't want to attend the party, and I wouldn't have either because I don't go to middle of the night parties. I sleep.

[D]

Yeah, you barely go to regular parties.

[C]

No. So while he was on his way to his party, he called his wife, he checked in, and everything was fine. So when Rock came home sometime between 5 or 5:30am on Christmas Eve, he was surprised to see, you know, it's dark outside at this point in time, all the lights were on in the house, which is weird because he would just assume that his wife was sleeping. So as he came inside, he started calling out his wife's name, but he was met with only silence. So as he continued on through the house, he was very alarmed to see that the back sliding doors were wide open. And you could imagine this is Michigan in December, it's freezing cold. So right away he knew something was not right here. So he did go outside. But initially nothing seemed out of place. But he felt very uneasy. So he called his dad. He explained the situation, and he asked his dad if he could come over to help him look for Deb. So as he did, they started walking around the grounds of the house because she wasn't in the house and the doors were open, suggesting that she'd gone outside. And it was actually Rock's dad who came upon Deb's body. She was fully clothed, she was lying next to their vegetable garden, and she was dead from a slash wound to her neck. So after police arrived and began their investigation, they couldn't help but realize that the Wilson's property was literally five minutes from the Briggs home. Yeah, and they could actually be reached by foot just by cutting through a couple of fields. So they had to obviously wonder if these two cases were connected. And just as with Rick and Gail's case, nothing seemed to be stolen from their home. There was no sign of a break in, and Deb had not been sexually assaulted. And it only had been four weeks that had passed since the Brinks double murder. So they did realize that the couples knew each other, they had mutual friends. So again, you know, this heightened the idea that there's like a serial killer out on the loose potentially, if these two murders were connected. So fear amongst the residents of Holland skyrocketed after. Now they're hearing there are three murders. So obviously investigators were put under the flame to solve these cases. So on top of these three murders, investigators recalled a murder that had taken place 10 years earlier in July of 1977, when a woman named Deborah Polinski was murdered only a half mile away from where Rick and Gail lived.

[D]

That's crazy, man. Again, I've been there and it didn't seem like that kind of community. It seemed like a standard on Michigan community. Nothing really stood out.

[C]

It looks cute from the pictures I see online. So 20 year old Deborah, she was killed with a knife just like Deb Wilson had. But unlike Gail or Deb, she had been sexually assaulted. So other than the close proximity of the crimes, detectives really could not pinpoint any connection between the cases. Sadly, all four murder investigations were cold, although tips continued to come in, months turned into years and investigators were no closer to solving any of these cases.

[A]

Life is full of exciting moments.

[C]

Whether you're buying a new home, opening an account as you welcome a new family member, or planning for retirement, you need a bank that's there when it matters. At Atlantic Union bank, you'll find helpful.

[A]

People and digital tools to make banking.

[C]

For all of life's moments a little easier. Because you deserve a financial partner who cares as much as you do. Call visit us online or drop by a branch to learn more. Atlantic Union Bank Any way you bank.

[A]

Healthcare can feel complicated. That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make healthcare easier, more affordable and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what you're back benefits cover and to help you better manage your health, we're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler healthcare is always possible. That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit optum.com to learn more.

[B]

Drafty windows sky high energy bills Tired of the hassle of constant repairs? This holiday season, Renewal by Andersen helps you slay the savings. Buy one window or door and get one one 40% off plus take 200 off your entire purchase with a minimum of four and with special financing available. Replacing those old inefficient windows has never been easier. Don't let drafty, worn out windows crash your holiday cheer. Visit renewalbyanderson.com today to schedule your free consultation. I can't tell you how often I hear oh, I'm a little ocd. I like things neat. That's not ocd. I'm Howie Mandel and I know this because I have ocd. Actual OCD causes relentless unwanted thoughts. What if I something terrible and forgot? What if I'm a bad person? Why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy. Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I want to tell you about NO cd. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for ocd. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually and covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call and learn more. That's n o c d dot com.

[C]

So 24 years went by until 2011.

[D]

Had to wait till the DNA technology got better.

[C]

Yeah. So what they did was they assembled a cold case detectives together from the Ottawa County Sheriff's Department, and then they went ahead and reopened Rick and G girl's cases. So they combed over all of the old reports, they traced down witnesses, they re reviewed every single piece of evidence. They conducted over 250 interviews. And they could only hope that guilt was weighing heavily on someone's conscience. So maybe if they hadn't committed the crime, maybe they knew who did and they were willing to now speak after, you know, 24 years had gone by.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So as part of their interviews, the cold case team spoke with the Wine Gardens. This is Gail's family. And they spoke with her sister Cheryl, and she mentioned something that her brother Ryan had said so many years earlier that just stuck with her. So a few days after Rick and Gail's murders, Ryan told a few family members that he felt like he could visualize his sister lying asleep in her bed, turning over and getting shot to death. And even more concerning, he followed this statement with, sometimes I wonder if I could have done this. Wow. So at the time, the family, I'm sure they found this an odd statement, but they probably just assumed that Ryan was just speaking from a state of shock and grief.

[D]

I mean, is Ryan known to be a weirdo? Like just say weird stuff all the time? That would definitely be something to look into.

[C]

Yeah, no, not to my knowledge. So obviously the cold case is hearing this and they think that this sounds pretty troubling.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So back in 1987, obviously investigators spoke with Ryan. You know, he was close to the case, he said, you know, he tried to call his sister on Sunday morning. She hadn't answered. His girlfriend, Pam, who was now his wife, indicated that she was with Ryan on Saturday during the time frame that investigators suspected that the couple were murdered. But regardless, something just wasn't sitting well with them. And this, this is the point that they turned their attention fully to Ryan Weingarten.

[D]

That's all they have.

[C]

So according to reports from 1987, Ryan and Pam had been doing laundry and visiting with a friend during that Saturday and again into the night when they assume when Rick and Gail were murdered. So since they didn't have laundry in their apartment, they had gone to a laundromat that day. And on further review, the cold case detectives now notice that in Pam's second statement back in 1987, 88, somewhere around there, she said she hadn't been with Ryan for the entire time frame in question. Okay, so it wasn't Until October of 2012, this is nearly 25 years after the murders when investigators brought Pam back in for questioning. So when she and Ryan began dating in the fall of 1987, she was a single mom. She had a six month old son, but now she's 48 years old. She's a mother of four. So after she and Ryan had gotten married in 1988, they went on to have three children of their own together. So when the cold case detectives went to Ryan and Pam's house, they were talking to Ryan and they were explaining that they are trying to desperately solve these murders despite the passage of so much time. So when they told Ryan that they wanted to go over Pam's original statements, he told them that Pam wasn't there. So when they began asking him a few questions, he told them that. That everything was a blur. So much time had gone by, he really couldn't remember. Which, if you think about it, you're talking about 25 years.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, if somebody asks you, what did you do? Where were you? What time did you do this? Like 25 years.

[D]

Yeah. I would barely even know like we covered earlier. So I'd have no chance to be like, listen, man, I'm just, no, my sister's dead. I can't tell you that much.

[C]

And that's why when a case happens, they want to solve it as quickly as possible because people's memories fade, People start to die.

[D]

And then memories change too.

[C]

Right.

[D]

You start remembering things differently that didn't actually happen, happen.

[C]

So basically this cold case is telling Ryan, okay, fine, just ask Pam to Drop by the station. We have a few questions for her. So when Pam did come by the station on October 1, 2012, Ryan was with her, and he wanted to sit in on her interview. But detectives said, no, bud, we're gonna do this by ourselves.

[D]

Nice try.

[C]

So this time, she repeated what she had said in her original statement back in 1987, or 88, whatever, that Ryan had been with her at Pete's Laundromats. And although they fully believe that she was holding back full honesty, there was just something they could sense in her. You know, they. They kept, you know, trying to question her.

[D]

What else are you gonna do?

[C]

Staying firm on the fact that she was telling the truth. And that's what happened. So Ryan had been the fourth born of eight children before Gail was born. And although the Weingarten siblings seemed to be doing well in life, Ryan seemed to be floundering, in contrast to Gail, who was in a happy marriage. She was working a job. She had a home. Ryan was selling small amounts of marijuana. He was financially struggling. He was drifting from one relationship to the next until he met Pam at a bar, or, excuse me, he met Pam at a time when his relationship was ending with another woman named Crystal. So they hear this name, Crystal, they want to go and talk to her, too, because she was still kind of coming off of relationships with Ryan at the time that his sister and brother in law were murdered. So when they spoke with Crystal, they learned that she had dated Ryan off and on for about four years, and their relationship officially ended when he started seeing Pam. Although they did remain friends after that time, they kept in touch. So just as the interview was about to end, Crystal kind of dropped a bombshell on investigators. So she told, in fact investigators that one week after Rick and Gail were murdered, Ryan had come over, and she. He asked, you know, I just want to talk to somebody. I want to go on a drive. So she agreed because she considered him a friend. And they're driving, and he says he wants to stop by Rick and Gail's house. He wants to have a look. And Crystal felt very unsettled by the suggestion, and she said, absolutely not. I don't want to go near the house where two people were brutally murdered. No, thank you. So when Ryan and Crystal continued to drive around, he eventually stopped off at a local park. And they were just sitting there talking in the car. And she could sense that he wanted to tell her something. He wanted to talk. And all of a sudden, he turns to her and says that he had sex with his sister. Gail.

[D]

Oh, yeah, that's a big deal.

[C]

So he went on to say that it first happened when he was only 12, and Gail had been either 9 or 10 years old. And he said that it started off as sexual curiosity. He would touch his younger sister, and then they eventually started having sexual intercourse in their early teens. So as Ryan is sitting there in the car with Crystal, he insisted that their interactions had been consensual. So he became tearful when he talked about the last time that he had been intimate with his sister. This is when he was 15 and Gail was somewhere about 12.

[D]

Oh, God.

[C]

It's so, so disturbing. So Gail had been sitting on a bench at the back of her parents home, and Ryan came up and walked up behind her, and he started touching her, and Gail told him to stop. So the gist of the situation is there were times, according to what happened, that he did force himself on his sister. So Crystal is sitting in the car. She is stunned and sickened. And, you know, why didn't you come.

[D]

Home or bring this up at some point?

[C]

That's what I was thinking. Like, as the interview is wrapping up now is when you say this story.

[D]

And you've had 20 years to tell police, you piece of garbage.

[C]

And I assume Crystal was questioned back in 1987.

[D]

Whether you're questioned or not, you know where to go. Like, hey, by the way, I don't know if this helps, but he banged his sister.

[C]

Right?

[D]

Like, that's horrible.

[C]

I know. It's. It's so twisted. So now they're sitting in the car still, and all of a sudden, Ryan pulls out this picture of himself and Gail. And it was taken over the summer when they were out on a boat with Rick, and Gail was wearing this bikini. And he says to Crystal, look how hot she is.

[D]

Oh, God.

[C]

So Crystal told detectives that she was so taken aback, and she allowed him to just continue talking because she just wanted to see where this was going. So Ryan went on to say that that day when they were out on the boat with Rick, that he was, like, staring and ogling at his sister in this bikini. And he looks over and he sees that Rick is seeing this. Yeah, Rick is looking at him like, what the hell are you looking at your sister for? Like that.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So detectives were wondering, was this a motive for murder? If Ryan couldn't have his own sister, no one could.

[D]

Sheepers, creepers. This is terrible.

[C]

Was he worried that maybe Rick was picking up on something? Maybe Gail was gonna tell someone and he wanted that secret to die?

[D]

Maybe outed yeah, well then don't tell Crystal, stupid. I know why you're telling people. I don't know. Whatever reason, this guy sucks. So.

[C]

So as investigators continue to bring Pam and Ryan into the station for questioning, Pam, much like her husband, indicated that her memories were hazy. However, In January of 2013, she finally started talking.

[D]

Why are these people such low life pieces of garbage?

[C]

Well, oftentimes when someone's responsible for something horrific, they can threaten you and say, I did this, I'm capable of this, I can do this to you. And she has a six month old son at the time. So oftentimes people are scared to silence.

[D]

Except.

[C]

So I understand that. So Pam explained that they had been doing laundry at the laundromat on Saturday, November 21, 1987. But they started doing laundry somewhere around five or six. They ended at about eight. So she said that Ryan had left for a couple of hours. Pam never questioned where he was going. So when he came back, they smoked marijuana, they got, they got a little jiggy together and then he left again.

[D]

That's your word, jiggy, jiggy.

[C]

So he certainly had not been with Pam the entire night because we know that Rick and Gail left the wedding reception sometime at around 11pm and they were murdered sometime thereafter.

[D]

Well, he was all worked up too because he just saw his sister and just murdered two people.

[C]

Well, at this point in time when he left, he had yet to murder them. So the point is he didn't truly have an alibi for that night because you can tell that they had at least settled to the point that Gail had gotten herself in her pajamas and she had gotten in bed. So they weren't killed like the second they pulled into the driveway from the wedding. They definitely had chance to settle themselves. So according to Pam, she didn't see Ryan again until Sunday morning at about 9am so she opens the door because he's knocking and she sees that he looks visibly distraught and he's holding his head in his hands. And Pam asked him what's going on. He fully told her what he had done.

[D]

And Pam's been holding on to this the whole time. Awesome. Great job. Job.

[C]

So Pam said that Ryan told her that he'd gone over to Rick and Gail's after their wedding reception. They wanted to, he wanted to confront them about this property issue. So apparently there was this disagreement about Gail not wanting her parents to live on their property. Apparently they had this trailer and it was being parked on Ryan's like driveway and his neighborhood was complaining about it and saying you can't have this trailer here. He wanted his sister to allow the parents to move the trailer to there. So they got into this argument about the whole situation and they basically said, ryan, get the hell out of here. You need to go. So when he went outside to leave, he pretended that his car wouldn't start. So he comes back into the house, tells Rick this, and Rick, being the nice guy that he was, offered to drive Ryan home. So Rick gets himself into his blazer. He's in the driver's seat, and that is when Ryan shoots him twice without any warning whatsoever.

[D]

This guy sucks.

[C]

Horrible. This is his brother in law. So now, of course, Gail is completely unaware because this happens outside. She's inside laying in bed, going to sleep. So he comes back into the house where Gail is already in bed. She likely never even saw it coming. He shot her three times in the head. So Pam told detectives that after he confessed, she told Ryan, you gotta go. And he did. But then hours later, he came back and Pam allowed him to stay, regardless of the fact that she had a six month old baby there at the house. So she elaborated that when they were on their way to his house, he actually drove them to Rick and Gail's house. So they pull into the driveway and she sees Rick's dead body slumped over in his blazer. And then he pulls her into the house and drags her into their bedroom so that he could. She could see Gail deceased and shot to death in their bed.

[D]

Okay, so he's a psychotic idiot.

[C]

Total psychotic.

[D]

But they, they hadn't had their kids yet together.

[C]

No, she had one child with another person.

[D]

Okay, so this. She knows her husband's a murderer and murders his own family member and is totally weird about it and decides I'm going to procreate with this guy too. Yeah, that was a horrible idea. You're an idiot. Sorry.

[C]

So apparently they walk into the bedroom and he takes the pillow off of his sister's face. And he says to Pam, if you go to the police or you tell anybody what I did, this could happen to you. So for 25 years, she kept Ryan's secret under lock and key. She never spilled a word.

[D]

If this is life, anybody listening has any kind of secret like this, tell the police. Because that whatever idiot that killed somebody is not going to come after. You'll be protected, I promise. Like, it just.

[C]

I mean, I. I can only imagine how scary this has to be. So it's easy for us to sit there and speak for people who, like you, can't fathom what this is like she's got a six month old baby boy and she's looking at her, his sister dead in the bed.

[D]

Well, don't you want to protect your kids and get the hell out of there? Like this guy is capable of murder. Murder. Like at some time in the night, like get him really drunk and then leave him forever and don't ever. Like, I know life would be tough, but wouldn't you rather do that than just kind of sit there with this horrible secret forever?

[C]

I don't know if the fear would be that you'd go to police and then he wouldn't get arrested so he'd be free to come to your house.

[D]

Sister, like he's gonna get arrested.

[C]

I understand that, but if they have to work on getting the evidence, it's her word against his.

[D]

Yeah, I know it's harsh, but she.

[C]

I mean anyone can say anything, you know what I mean? They might. He could say she's crazy. I never did this. So Pam said that although she was horrified, she went back to Ryan's house and she stayed there with her six month old son, Nathan. So when she woke up at about 6am on Sunday morning to feed Nathan a bottle, she saw that Ryan's friend, or maybe this was Monday, it was unclear in that regard. But this was before Rick and Gail's bodies had been discovered at the house. That's really what it comes down to. No one knew at this point that they were dead. So she walks into the kitchen at 6 in the morning. By the way, why do you have a visitor at the house at 6am But Ryan is sitting there with his friend James Meacham and they were. She hears that Ryan is telling James about who went by Jimbo, by the way. So he's telling Jimbo at 6am that his sister and brother in law were dead. And again, this is before his. Rick's parents had made the discovery. No one should have known at this point.

[D]

Oh my God, Jimbo, like step up you.

[C]

But then I don't know if it like Jimbo didn't pay attention to the timeline. And when it came out, didn't the.

[D]

Police talk to Jimbo? Like when did you find, like, oh God, there's. This is bad police work potentially.

[C]

So after James left, Pam asked Ryan if he could take her home and he agreed. And he took out a.22 revolver and showed it to her as long as well as the clothing that he wore when he killed his sister and brother.

[D]

Yeah, you're such a badass shooting people that are defenseless so, you know, he's.

[C]

Driving her back home to her house and he is telling her repeatedly, if you go to the police, police, this could happen to you. So when she asked Ryan, why, why did you do this to your sister and brother in law, he admitted that he was jealous and he didn't want Rick to find out about the sexual relationship that he had with his sister.

[D]

So Pam finds out that he murders his family and also is super attracted to his sister and would rather be with her than her. But Pam's like, oh, okay, cool, well, let's have some kids together.

[C]

Yeah. And then I guess too she was also afraid of coming from forward as the years ticked by because she was afraid that because she had stayed silent that she would be in trouble for it.

[D]

Not in trouble, just everything. Everybody thinks you're stupid.

[C]

Yeah. So she's saying, you know, she's defending herself, saying that she stayed quiet because she was scared that Ryan would harm her or her child.

[D]

And if I can really quick, obviously Ryan is the worst person in this entire story. Yeah.

[C]

But you are focusing a lot more on Pam than you are on Ryan.

[D]

I'm angry because her family could have had angry answers. Like she held the answers. Okay. Ryan's not going to come forward. He doesn't want to get caught. Pam had the answers in her hand. She's the only one that we know of so far. And possibly Jimbo, you know, if the police did their job. Right.

[C]

But then again, Ryan was definitely saying things that were kind of incriminating when he's like, sometimes they wonder if I, I have done this. Yeah.

[D]

And then there's just other thoughts I'm having.

[C]

Been telling Crystal about the relationship and all of that.

[D]

Yeah. Just the church going, family. Maybe they just want everything to be nice and yeah, Dory, yeah. We're churchgoers and yeah, I don't know, maybe be church or not. They just want to make sure their family's all together and everything.

[C]

Yeah. But I don't know if Pam and Ryan were churchgoers. Gail and Ryan were raised.

[D]

Wendell and Dorothea were church gors. That's what I'm talking about.

[C]

But then maybe Ryan went off and married Pam and they didn't go to church.

[D]

That's fine. I don't care. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying like within the family. Within the 10 siblings or eight siblings they had.

[C]

Yeah. They had eight total children.

[D]

One of them had heard Ryan talking about how he was attracted to his sister. Right.

[C]

No, no.

[D]

Oh, they didn't who eventually. Who was the first person?

[C]

Crystal. That's an ex girlfriend.

[D]

Right? Right. Okay.

[C]

Yeah. So in the years that had gone by.

[D]

I'm sorry. Actually, how about when Ryan said that off, off mark thing? He said like, oh, I almost picture like I could see her being dead. Or maybe I did it. That's the thing that I was wondering about.

[C]

That was the sister, Cheryl. And again, looking back, she said, I thought he was just grief stricken and he was just speaking from grief.

[D]

But surely she told her parents about this too.

[C]

I don't know. So regardless, they got married and they ended up having three children together. And while Pam was the breadwinner, Ryan just stayed home. It sounds like he didn't do much work throughout his entire life.

[D]

That's not a surprise. Dude's a loser.

[C]

So he homeschooled their children, despite the fact that Pam didn't want that to happen. She wanted them to go to school.

[D]

Very curious to see how that went. I'm sure they probably didn't learn to read till they were like 16.

[C]

So when investigators went to speak with Ryan's friend James to see if he could recall. Do you remember having the this conversation before anyone discovered Gail and Rick's bodies? He's like, it's been 20 some odd years. I don't remember. So on January 18, 2013, Ryan Winegarden was finally arrested and charged with two counts of first degree murder. So Ryan claimed that he was an innocent man and his wife had only been coerced into providing a false statement. So he accused Pam of harass or being harassed to the point that she could take no more, and she falsely made up the story. So when he was asked about the sexual relationship with Gail, he compared it to an innocent children's game of playing doctor and nurse. He said they were simply exploring each other's bodies for curiosity purposes. Although Dorothea, this is the mother, refused to believe that her son would ever be capable of something so terrible. Gail's sister Cheryl did believe that her brother had done this. Cheryl is the sister who told investigators that Ryan had said these odd statements after the murders, mentioning that he could visualize his sister in bed getting shot to death. He also made the comment that Rick and Gail would probably still be alive if Gail had only just allowed their parents to park their trailer on the property, which. That's a very threatening statement.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So Cheryl also felt devastated that her sister had been sexually molested by their bro and she hadn't told a single soul about it.

[D]

Oh, wait, how did she know that.

[C]

After the fact that once. Now, 25 years later, it's come out that Ryan was forcing himself on Gail. This is news to Cheryl. She never knew this inappropriate relationship was happening with her brother and sister.

[D]

Oh, I thought you said she was beating herself up because she didn't.

[C]

She was, she was beating herself up. That Gail didn't feel comfortable enough to come and talk to her. Her about what was happening.

[D]

Got it.

[C]

She. She wished that she would have.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So not only had Cheryl believed that Ryan was responsible, but as did one of their aunts, she also recalled Ryan making odd comments one day before the murders when she spoke with Gail on the phone. Gail was mentioning that she and Ryan were having a tense situation because he owed her money. So, you know, it's just like, you can never fathom that somebody's brother would do this.

[D]

No, it'd be like the last thing on my list.

[C]

So in March of 2014, this is 27 years after their murders, Ryan finally went to trial. So the prosecution argued that Ryan murdered his sister and brother in law because he feared that his incestuous sexual abuse toward his sister would come out, as well as the fact that he was deeply jealous of Gail and Rick's marriage. So he felt resentful that the couple had made something of themselves. And on more than one occasion, he had voiced this out loud. He would say things like, gail is too good for the rest of us. So unfortunately, I will tell you that there was no physical evidence to prove that Ryan was responsible. So during the trial, more than 60 witnesses were called, including Pam. Obviously, Pam is a star witness in this case because she is the one that has held his full confession.

[D]

Crystal too?

[C]

Yeah, Crystal too. But he never admitted to killing them, so. And Crystal did testify as well. So as she did, she avoided his gaze and she described what she saw and why she had remained silent through all of those years. She denied that the. The detectives had coerced her into a false confession. And during her testimony, her voice remained strong. And, you know, all the while Ryan is sitting there glaring at her. He even had to be temporarily removed from the courtroom because he was shouting abusive words, words toward her while she was sitting at the defense or while he was sitting at the defense table.

[D]

You think that's helping your case, Ryan? It's not stupid.

[C]

He just can't control himself, obviously. So it came to light that while Ryan had been behind bars, he had obsessively written Pam a total of 29 letters. And some were pleading with her to recant her statement, others were warning her that she would face God's wrath for turning against him. So a fellow inmate also testified that while Ryan was behind bars, he bragged about being responsible for a double homicide. And he also often vented about his sister Cheryl. So he mentioned that he should have killed Cheryl a long time ago. We know this guy is capable of killing his own family members. He did it. He was basically saying that Cheryl had caused him trouble throughout the years that had passed past since Gail and Rick had been murdered because she remained on it, that this case has got to get solved. Of course he doesn't want it to be solved because he's the murderer.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, what's weird about wanting your sister's case solved?

[C]

So Crystal testified about the car ride that she had taken with Ryan, about the conversation they had about this whole incestuous abuse that was happening.

[D]

And again, Crystal's the ex girlfriend.

[C]

Yes. They dated on and off for about four years. So Gail and Cheryl's sister Lynn, she testified that Ryan had told her that she. He wished that he could apologize to Gail after she was murdered. He said, I wish I could have apologized for dishonoring Gail. But at the time, she didn't understand what any of it meant. Now it all made sense to her.

[D]

Clearly, he's the family weirdo, because they're not questioning all this stuff. They're like, oh, he's just an act. Psychopath.

[C]

Yeah. You know how you have that weird person in the family where you're like, what the hell are you talking about?

[D]

Right.

[C]

So when Ryan took the stand, he was extremely combative. He was defensive. And he claimed that the justice system had been rigged. He claimed he had absolutely no idea why his wife and sister Cheryl had chosen to turn against him. And you could just tell he's one of these guys that does nothing wrong and everything that happens to him is someone else's fault. So he had, however, admitted that there was some sort of sexual relationship with Gail that began when she was as young as nine years old. And despite the fact that the courtroom sat there and understood that a nine year old is not able to give consent, he's sitting there in front of the jury in the courtroom saying it was consensual.

[D]

Right.

[C]

So Ryan claimed that he hadn't heard about Gail or Rick's deaths until Monday night. He was at his brother's house when he found out. And we know that's a lie. So the defense tried to argue lack of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And they brought up the idea of that whole mistaken Identity, death by the whole motorcycle gang thing. So there was also a suggestion that someone from Gail's work could have been responsible. Apparently Gail had taken some file home from work that may have shown some kind of financial irregularities at work. And before the file could be looked at, it had been removed by their home by someone, we don't know who. So that was also presented in trial as a motive. So after four hours of deliberation, Mike, I will tell you, they returned a verdict on March 28, 2014. What do you think they came back with?

[D]

Guilty.

[C]

So they found 51 year old Ryan Weingarten guilty of murdering his sister and his brother in law. And as he was removed from the courtroom, he was shouting out that he was innocent.

[D]

Yeah. Go to hell. Go straight to hell. I wish there was this open door we could just.

[C]

It's just like a trap door like you see. Yep.

[D]

And just drop them like we don't have to worry about any death penalty. Just go to hell. There you go.

[C]

Bye bye Ryan.

[D]

Yeah, we'll figure out what happens later. Take care.

[C]

So one month later, Ryan was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences without parole. And all the while while the judge is telling him a sentencing, he is interrupting, he is screaming that the justice system is, is failed. It's, it's just corrupt.

[D]

It just happened to work perfectly in this scenario.

[C]

So he will behind be behind bars for the rest of his life. And up until her death at age 90 in 2021, Dorothea maintained that her son was innocent. You know, in her defense, who would ever want to believe that their child could murder their sibling?

[D]

You know, I'm an open minded person and if I heard that that happened and I would have to take any evidence and be like, oh, it's definitely possible. Instead of just closing your eyes like an idiot and saying my son didn't.

[C]

Do that, you know, she might say there is no evidence to, to prove that Ryan did this. There's just Pam's word. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So Ryan has appealed his conviction on three occasions but each time this has been denied. So meanwhile I had mentioned those other two murders. 20 year old Deborah Polinsky, she was the, the unfortunate woman who was stabbed to death and then sexually assaulted in her Port Sheldon Township home in July of 1977. This case remains unsolved. Now I will tell you that it.

[D]

The other neighbor.

[C]

Well no, back to Deborah Polinski. They're working on, they, they feel kind of confident that despite all those years they might sell this case. So she was found by her co worker after she failed to show up for work after the weekend. So she was last seen on July 23, 1977. And as her co workers were concerned because she didn't come to work, they went into her home three days later, later. And it was so sad because Deborah's German shepherd, Thor, he was standing guard over her body.

[D]

German shepherd.

[C]

So sad.

[D]

Awesome.

[C]

So again, her case does remain unsolved to this day. But despite the passage of 48 years, detectives are actively investigating her case. And they're saying that new DNA results and tips have investigators looking to the west coast to interview several people who have since relocated to that area. They lived near Helen, Michigan at the time that she was murdered. So new data proves that a female was present in Deborah's home when she was murdered. So because there was no sign of forced entry and her notoriously protective German shepherd didn't attack the killer, they believe that whoever did this to Deborah knew her and. And the dog. The dog trusted and was familiar with this person. So contrary to the initial investigation reports in 1977, current detectives do not believe that Deborah had been sexual. Sexually assaulted. Obviously, things have changed a lot since 1977 in terms of Deb Wilson's case. She is the 30 year old that the husband came home from that Christmas party and her throat is slashed in the backyard.

[D]

They live super close by.

[C]

Super close. Like literally you could walk through some fields. So they believe she was murdered by an acquaintance named David Oldemotion. Excuse me, Audemolin. And he became a prime suspect after some suspicious photos linked him to the crime. But sadly, before they were able to make an arrest, he passed away. They do feel confident that he is the person responsible for Deb's murder.

[D]

At least he's dead.

[C]

So Gail and Rick Brink. They had only been married for 18 short months when their dead bodies were discovered at their home. The home that they had just finished renovating. The young couple had dreams of a life together. They wanted to start a family. They wanted to grow old together. The simple things in life. But instead, everything was taken for them by someone that they should have been able to trust. And that is the sad and tragic case of the murders of Rick and Gail Brink.

[D]

Yeah, well, that's super sad.

[C]

Crazy, right?

[D]

Unbelievable. That's not a direction I thought that whole thing was going.

[C]

No, because like you're saying you think it's like a jealousy ex lover.

[D]

It actually was.

[C]

I mean, sickeningly enough. Yeah, that's exactly.

[D]

And Ryan had like three kids with Pam, which sucks. Cuz his DNA continues on cuz hopefully those kids are okay and you definitely need to talk to therapists.

[C]

Absolutely.

[D]

Oh man. Just I can't believe it. So.

[C]

And they would be you probably, you know, in their upper teens and twenties when this happened or when he got arrested.

[D]

So, so sorry to the Brink family. The Weingarten family is absolutely horrible.

[C]

Such a sad case. But anyway, we thank you guys so much for being here, for listening, for supporting. If you wouldn't mind hopping over to Apple, leaving us a five star review if you feel so inclined and a.

[D]

Couple words would be very, very nice.

[C]

Super appreciated.

[D]

Make sure you like and also hype us on YouTube if you're there. Spotify, leave some reviews. All that good stuff. All that stuff helps us out quite a bit. So go ahead and share our stuff to some people. Send it to yourself. Go ahead, just click the share button and then copy the link and send it over to yourself. That helps the algorithm, man. That's what it's all about.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. So thank you guys so much and until next time. Bye.

[A]

Life is full of exciting moments.

[C]

Whether you're buying a new home, opening an account as you welcome a new family member, or planning for retirement, you need a bank that's there when it matters. At Atlantic Union bank, you'll find helpful people and digital tools to make banking for all of life's moments a little easier. Because you deserve a financial partner who cares as much as you do. Call, visit us online or drop by a branch to learn more.

[A]

Atlantic Union Bank Anyway, you bank healthcare can feel complicated. That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make healthcare easier, more affordable and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what your benefits cover and to help you better manage your health. We're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler healthcare is always possible. That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit optum.com to learn more.

[B]

Drafty Windows sky high energy bills Tired of the hassle of constant repairs? This holiday season, Renewal by Andersen helps you slay the savings. Buy one window or door and get one 40% off. Plus take $200 off your entire purchase with a minimum of four. And with special financing available, replacing those old inefficient windows has never been easier. Don't let drafty, worn out windows crash your holiday cheer. Visit renewalbyanderson.com today to schedule your free consultation. If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs. But nothing's worse than that ancient boiler that's lived in the building since the day it was built 50 years ago. It's enough to make anyone lose their cool. That's where Grainger comes in. With industrial grade products and dependable, fast delivery, Grainger can help with any challenge, from worn out components to everyday necessities. Call clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow.

[D]

Thank you for listening.