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Kouri Richins Convicted: Legal Analyst Kelly Hyman Breaks Down Fentanyl Murder Case | Crime House 24/7
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Hi listeners, it's Vanessa Richardson. Real quick, before today's episode, I want to tell you about another show from Crime House that I know you'll love. America's Most Infamous Crimes. Hosted by Katie Ring. Each week, Katie takes on one of the most notorious criminal cases in American history. Serial killers who terrorized cities, unsolved mysteries that keep detectives up at night, and investigations that that change the way we think about justice. Listen to and follow America's Most infamous crimes Tuesday through Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you listen to podcasts. Good morning everyone. I'm Vanessa Richardson and this is crime house 24 7, your home for breaking true crime news. Today we're taking a slight turn from our usual format for an extended discussion on a case that has captivated the Crime House community and national headlines alike. The Corey Richens murder trial. To help unpack the legal dimensions of this case, how prosecutors built their argument, what the verdict means, and what it reveals about proving a poisoning crime in court, I'm joined today by Kelly Hyman, an attorney and legal analyst.
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Today on Crime House 24 7, we're unpacking the Corey Richards murder trial with attorney Kelly Hyman. Kelly, welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about your background and walk our listeners through the Corey Richards case. What happened, how we got here, and what stands out to you most from a legal perspective.
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C
It's great to be with you. Thank you so much for having me. My Name is Kelly Hyman. I am a TV legal analysts and I also represent victims, survivors of sex trafficking, human trafficking, and people that have been harmed. This case that we are discussing today has gotten a lot of national attention. People are always fascinated with this case, and here's why. Here's one side of the story is a grieving wife who lost her husband. She wrote a book about it to help deal with the grief that she was going through. However, from the prosecutor's standpoint, there is a woman who's been charged and that she allegedly, and now she has been convicted, killed her husband. And her sole reason for doing that was in fact financial gain. That she was having a very difficult time, money wise, and that she allegedly thought it was going to be more beneficial economically to have her husband dead rather than have him be alive.
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A
It's a horrifying thought. And for listeners who are following this case, but maybe hung up on one key detail. The prosecution never proved how the poison, the fentanyl got into Eric's body. So how did they get a conviction if there's no proof?
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C
Ultimately, that is for the jury to decide based on the facts and evidence presented in this case. The prosecution brings the case. And so what that means from a legal perspective is that they must prove every single element of the causes of action, the charges, the criminal charges in this case. So what the prosecution did was tell a story. They laid out a story and painted a picture from their perspective. Their perspective was here is a woman that was struggling financially. They had someone testify to go over the financial aspect of the case, saying what the discrepancy was of how much money she had, millions of dollars in debt. And then they also used witnesses to help establish their case and to help establish motive. Now it's important to note that in this case, motive is, is not an element of the charge. And what that means is from a legal perspective, that the prosecution had to have intent that premeditated, but they didn't in fact have to prove motive. But jurors usually sit on these type of cases and they think to themselves, why did someone do this? Why did they want to do this? What was the reasoning behind that? And that's where in fact, the financial aspect, the financial gain really hit home for the jury based on the their conviction.
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That financial aspect hit a lot of different elements of this case. One of the most striking elements, I think was the forensic accountant who spent an entire day on the stand walking the jury through Corey's finances, the, you know, millions of dollars she was in debt and how. How much her husband's life insurance policy was worth. We don't often think of accountants as star witnesses in murder trials. How does his financial testimony like that factor into building a circumstantial case? And what does it tell jurors that other types of evidence can't?
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That was the star witness for this case, and here's why. Because when jurors usually sit on the jury, they can weigh the credibility of someone. So what that means is, is someone credible? Is that person believable? Here's someone testifying, going over the numbers. And some would say the numbers do not lie. If you look at the numbers and if you're a numbers person, and here is one scenario of how much she would be worth if in fact they got a divorce, allegedly 700,000, but in fact, that he no longer lived over a million dollars, which is sad when you think about it from that standpoint, that someone is allegedly solely motivated by money to do something and kill someone. But that expert, as you talked about, is key because it connects the dots of why someone did something. And the prosecution laid it out and built their case and used different people as witnesses, as experts to help substantiate their case for the jury.
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Another key witness was a housekeeper named Carmen Lauber, who testified that Corey asked her to acquire drugs multiple times and that she purchased fentanyl on court behalf. But the defense spent a significant amount of time attacking her credibility, her history of drug use, inconsistencies in her statements, the immunity deal she had with prosecutors. So how do prosecutors manage a case where their most important witness is also their most vulnerable?
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One to be transparent? And what that means is to lay all the cards on the table. A smart prosecutor will deal with those issues up front. And so what that means is they're the one that tells the jury about it, whether it's this person has a plea deal or discuss their past. So then that way there is credibility to the witness. Now, from the defendant standpoint, they can poke holes, as you pointed out, about the immunity deal, because the immunity deal, from the defense standpoint, it shows why someone wants to do something, right? From the defense standpoint, this person, the housekeeper who is making testimony that's going to hurt the defendant has ulterior motives. The only reason that they're testifying is because it's going to benefit them. Thus they have a plea deal. However, by the prosecution laying that in the beginning, bringing that up front also about alleged drug use, it really helps paint a picture of like, okay, here's the Bad stuff. We're telling you, we're letting you know about this. But that doesn't mean that the person is not credible. Just because the person got a plea deal doesn't mean what they're telling you is not truthful. Now, from the defense standpoint, they would say, no, that is not the case. Because they have the deal, they are motivated to make sure that they maintain that immunity deal. And what immunity means is that depending on the exact particulars of the immunity, that they're not going to be charged a crime, that potentially there is some kind of involvement by them. But I'm going to testify and therefore I am not going to go to jail.
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Then I guess it's up to the jury at that point. Right. Hearing both sides of this particular aspect.
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Exactly. The jury is going to weigh credibility. And I think that's really important when you think about that stuff, that they are in fact the finders of facts. So when they hear someone, they can determine whether someone is in fact believable, whether someone's honest, whether someone is credible. Do they act like they're trying to hide something, or are they truthful? Are they transparent? Are they accountable by saying, yes, I'm getting this plea deal, but I'm still going to tell you the truth. Yes, I have inconsistent statements. It's because I had some. Some issues with substance abuse.
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It's interesting. Cell phone records played a big role in corroborating Lauber's testimony. Placing her and the drug dealer near the gas station on key dates, showing, deleted and capturing Corey texting Lauber, asking if she still had her hookup days after Eric died. Can you explain how digital evidence functions in a circumstantial case like this?
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C
Digital evidence is really important, and here's why. It also helps establish that when someone's testifying the housekeeper, that she in fact is telling the truth and it could be supported by something else. So if you have someone that may have potentially some credibility issues due to the fact that they have a plea deal or the fact of potentially inconsistent statements, if you have additional evidence that helps support their position, then when the jury considers it, not only are they considering their testimony, but then there's also evidence, kind of like a backup, something that's kind of going to support their position and it gives it more weight, it gives it more credibility, and potentially is key in this type of case.
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When we come back, Kelly Hyman will continue to unpack everything we know about the Corey Richens case. These days, I'm really focused on quality over quantity. I'm raising my standards, especially when it comes to my closet. If it's not well made and versatile, I just don't bother. That's why I love Quince. Their fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful and the pricing is surprisingly reasonable. They make wardrobe staples in 100% European linen, silk and organic cotton poplin. Their cotton cashmere sweaters are light, soft and perfect for layering this season and their spring colors gorgeous. Everything is designed to make getting dressed effortless. These are pieces built to last soft gauze that isn't flimsy, linen that holds its shape and stitching that really stands up over time. That cotton cashmere sweater I grabbed has become my daily Go to light, luxe and exactly what I want. Stop waiting to build the wardrobe you actually want right now. Go to quints.com crimehousepod for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q U I n c e.com Crime HousePod for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Crime HousePod
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Welcome Back to Crime House 24 7. We're discussing the Corey Richens case. So interesting. Corey's defense rested without calling a single witness and Corey herself chose not to testify. So from a legal strategy standpoint, how do you read that decision? Is that calculated to to keep the jury focused on the prosecution's burden of proof or does it carry risks of its own?
- [15:32]
C
Both. So the prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal case, and what that means is that there should be no doubt now a civil case, the burden is lower and it's More of a preponderance of the evidence, kind of like more likely than 50%. But in the criminal case, in this case, the burden is on the prosecution. So defendants, since the burden is on the prosecution, they still have an opportunity during the trial to cross examine one of the prosecution's witnesses. And what that means is a prosecutor will put on a witness, they will testify to certain facts, and then the defendant has the opportunity to poke holes at that testimony, to show potentially inconsistent statements, to show bias, anything they can, to poke holes in a fact that is not believable or it's not reliable or of their testimony. When we look at that from a legal perspective as well. Now, in regards to whether someone decides to testify or not in a criminal case, ultimately that is the client's decision. And an attorney can advise the client and say, I do not think it's a good idea for you to testify. And here's why. You get on the witness stand and I can ask you questions, but then the prosecution gets to cross examine you. And sometimes a client will say, thanks for the advice, but I want to testify. Or a client may say, I know you think otherwise, but I want to do what I want to do. If attorney says, I think you should testify, clients say, no, I do not want to do that. It's too stressful for me. I don't feel comfortable doing that. So ultimately the client make that decision, but the attorney most likely told her that it wasn't a good idea because of the cross examination of the case. And that's going to open you up about all the financial stuff and your motive and all the messages that were sent, all the alleged deleted messages that were sent. And that, as some would say, is a Pandora's box. And so she decided not to testify, which is her right to do. And there was also important to note that when this happens, you have a right not to testify. And that the jury should not assume because you do not testify, in fact, that you are guilty of the charges.
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A
While you were explaining, I was thinking the jury would might read into that. So that's very interesting. They should not take that into account as far as guilt, you know, because she doesn't, she chooses not to testify on her own behalf. That does not necessarily mean guilt, but that's, I guess up to the jury in that at that point.
- [18:49]
C
Yes. And that's the criminal cases. So in, in the court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty. And that's one of the questions. Usually attorneys ask the questions of the potential jurors because Some people have preconceived ideas. Sometimes people have preconceived notion. You have a high profile case like this and potentially jurors already have made up their mind. And so if you have someone that has preconsisting ideas of someone's already guilty before the, the evidence is proven, then there's an, there's an issue because they can't be fair and impartial. And that's really important. And that goes to the point of you're innocent until proven guilty. And then also it goes to the point of, in fact that just because she didn't testify does not mean that she's guilty. You have to prove someone is guilty of the crime.
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A
So Corey has been convicted, but sentencing hasn't happened yet. So what does that process look like from here? And given that she's facing 25 years to life on the aggravated murder charge alone, what range of outcomes are realistically on the table for her at this point?
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C
So during the sentencing, which as it stands right now is going to happen in May, judges usually like to hear impact statements, to hear from family members of what it's like to, to lose someone, what they believe that the punishment should be from the defendant. Sometimes defendants will have a written statement of what they want to say. Now it's important to remember that most likely in this case that there is going to be an appeal of this verdict. And so a defense attorney might be mindful of that and work with his client, the defendant about if you're in fact going to say something, be mindful of what you, what you say and work out potentially a statement or not say anything at all. But since the severity of this case and that in fact that she was found guilty, I could potentially see that she could spend the rest of her life in jail. But it's also important to remember that this is not the only trial that she has. There's another one coming as well.
- [21:27]
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Still ahead, Kelly Hyman continues our conversation on Corey Richens.
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Welcome back to crime house 24 7. We're discussing the Corey Richards case with attorney Kelly Hyman.
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This is not the only trial that she has.
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That's right. She's facing a separate case involving nearly three dozen additional counts, mortgage fraud, forgery, money laundering, and more. For listeners who may not realize, these are two distinct legal proceedings. Can you explain how, how that works?
- [23:01]
C
So there is the criminal case, the murder case in which she was found guilty of. That's one component. And also another trial is going to happen in regards to the financial aspect, the allegations of getting a mortgage allegedly without her late husband's approval, using fraud. Right. Getting money by fraud. Those are serious charges and also face serious penalty of potential time in jail. And ultimately, if in fact found guilty, the judge will make a determination about not only that aspect, the alleged mortgage fraud and the financial gain aspect, but the criminal case. And most likely she will spend the rest of her life in jail. Having said that, she will most likely appeal and that will work itself through the court system and play a role of what could potentially happen in the future.
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What grounds might Corey's legal team realistically pursue in appeal?
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As many as they can possibly establish whether it is about a change of venue that she did not get jurors that were fair and impartial. She could also challenge it about certain evidence presented. She could also challenge it on certain rulings as well. So when you look at that, you kind of look at, as we would say, the totality of the circumstances. So if there is a legal ground or legal basis, you know, for it, some people have filed appeals based on their assistance of counsel. So there's a lot of variety that you could potentially appealing on. But I could potentially see the venue as a possibility was, you know, fair and impartial and allowing certain evidence in because there was some issues about certain evidence that was was let in. And her one letter that was let in. Her attorney argued that it was attorney client privilege. And the judge ultimately ruled that the letter was in fact, not attorney client privilege. And the letter could have significant impacts when the jury ultimately decide the case on whether or not she was guilty or innocent. So anything along those lines during the trial or beforehand about rulings could potentially be on appeal. We're going to have to wait and see if she does that. But my crystal ball is broken. But I would assume that, that she would definitely, if there's a legal basis, her chinny will file an appeal based on something that that happened.
- [26:17]
A
Kelly, thank you so much. Are there any final thoughts before we wrap up today?
- [26:22]
C
In these type of cases, I think it's important to remember the family members of her late husband. He was murdered, she was convicted of that, and the effect that it had on them. My heart and prayer goes out to the family to lose a loved one and to lose a loved one by your own spouse. It's saddening that something like that would happen. I wish the best for the family members and I hope that they get some kind of peace in this matter.
- [27:03]
A
Beautifully said. Thank you so much, Kelly. So Corey wrote a children's book after her husband passed away, apparently for her children and also to share with other people about bereavement of, you know, losing someone special in your life. So how can that be used in a courtroom as evidence or how can
- [27:25]
C
that be used from defense standpoint, Here is a woman, a mother, who lost her husband and is dealing with the grief of losing someone so young. And that she wrote this book as, some would say, therapy, a way to deal with the grief of losing someone that you love. Also from the defendant's standpoint, defendants would assert that it shows her innocent. Here is someone that is grieving, that has lost her husband, and she wrote this book in order to deal with the process because she lost him and was grieving. Therefore she did not kill her husband. From the other side of the coin, from the prosecution standpoint, the argument would be made is just because she wrote the book does not mean, in fact, that she is not guilty of those crimes. But also further substantiates the fact that this was motivated by money. Here she wrote a book to get more money because she was struggling so hard financially that the defendant was in such debt that she not only killed her husband because it was more economically beneficial for her rather than getting a divorce, that she would receive 700,000 rather than over a million dollars, but also writing the book in order to gain more money.
- [29:09]
A
Very interesting both sides. Thank you so much again for joining us on crime house 24 7. This trial raises real questions about how far a circumstantial case can carry a prosecution and how juries weigh evidence when there's no smoking gun. You've helped our listeners understand not just what happened in that case courtroom, but why it matters legally. We appreciate you walking us through it with heart. Also, thank you so much. And we'll have to have you back as sentencing approaches to really go over this again and see what's going on.
- [29:42]
C
That would be great.
- [29:43]
A
Thanks so much, Kelly.
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Thanks for listening to today's episode. Not sure what to listen to next? Check out America's Most Infamous Crimes, hosted by Katie Ring. From serial killers to unsolved mysteries and game changing investigations, each week Katie takes on a notorious criminal case in American history. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes now. Wherever you listen to podcasts.