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- [00:01]
Katie Ring
Crime House has the perfect new show for spooky season Twisted Tales. Hosted by Heidi Wong, each episode of Twisted Tales is perfect for late night scares and daytime frights, revealing the disturbing real life events that inspired the world's most terrifying blockbusters and the ones too twisted to make it to screen. Twisted Tales is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts New episodes out every Monday.
- [00:41]
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- [00:45]
Katie Ring
After his arrest, Brian Coburger refused to talk. But there were other ways to learn about his motives in the Idaho student murders and what investigators found was incredibly dark. Let's get into it.
- [00:59]
Crime House Reporter
28 year old Bryan Kohberger taken into custody by Pennsylvania State Police and the FBI Friday morning. The suspect arrested after a criminal investigation into the brutal killings of four University of Idaho students.
- [01:12]
Katie Ring
Tonight, Bryan Kohberger's childhood friend Thomas speaking to ABC News describing the Idaho murder suspect as mean in high school, saying Brian was eager to be seen as dominant.
- [01:23]
Crime House Reporter
He would just like put me in. He would like grapple me and like put me in headlocks and arm bars and stuff like that. No arrest will ever bring back these young students. However, we do believe justice will be found through the criminal process.
- [01:39]
Olivia Gonzalez
I will ask the questions, why did you choose my sisters?
- [01:48]
Katie Ring
Hi, I'm Katie Ring, a true crime analyst, self defense instructor and fierce advocate for victims. And this is Crime House Daily, your essential true crime companion. Every weekday morning and night here at Crime House Daily, we dig into the true crime stories making headlines right now, where justice is unfolding, arrests are happening and new evidence is emerging. Every morning, First Watch gets you up to speed on today's biggest cases. Every night, Night Watch takes you deeper. If you want to follow a case from the first 911 call to the final verdict, this is the place for you. Follow Crime House Daily Wherever you get your podcasts, leave a review and for ad free listening, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. For video, check out our YouTube channel Rimehouse Daily. This episode discusses active criminal cases and breaking news. The information we share is based on what's publicly available at the time of recording and may change as new evidence comes to light. We aim to inform, not to decide guilt or innocence, so everyone mentioned is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
- [03:02]
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- [04:05]
Katie Ring
For tonight's case, we're getting into our fifth and final episode of our deep dive on the Idaho student murders. The tragic deaths of Zanna Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, Kaylee Gonzalez and Madison Moid almost three years ago on November 13, 2022 at the hands of Brian Coburger. Last night we tracked the hunt for Brian Coburger leading up to his arrest on December 30, 2022. We covered a lot of evidence against him and tonight I'll tell you all about the events following his arrest, the lead up to Coburger's trial date, and where things stand as of this recording. At the time of Coburger's arrest, the authorities have gathered a lot of evidence that points to him as the killer. They've linked him to the white Hyundai driving around the house at 1122 King street at the time of the murders, confirmed his DNA was on the knife sheath found at the crime scene. Confirmed he bought a KA Bar knife like the suspected murder weapon and have searched his apartment in Pullman, Washington. But Kohberger never confesses or talks to the authorities about the crimes at all. He doesn't even enter a plea at his arraignment, so the judge enters a not guilty plea on his behalf. After that, both sides spend two and a half years gearing up for trial while Kohberger remains in custody. During that time, he maintains his silence about the murders, even with his family, though it should be said everyone has the right to remain silent. So even though the evidence is stacked against him, there's nothing forcing Coburger to talk. But without any kind of plea deal or cooperation agreement, the authorities also have the right to go after the maximum penalty against him. In this case, it's the death penalty, which the prosecution says they intend to pursue if he's convicted. And even though the police gathered enough evidence to arrest and charge him with the murders, there still is more work to be done ahead of the trial. With Kohberger maintaining his silence, investigators start by speaking with someone who knows his dark side better than most. Professor John Snyder, who was one of Kohberger's teachers at Washington State's Criminal justice and Criminology Department. Snyder, who worked for 30 years as a public defender, was one of the main faculty members who witnessed Coburger's downfall at the school. School Kohberger worked under Snyder when he was a ta, and from day one, Snyder didn't like him. For starters, Coburger often missed the classes he was supposed to be assisting with due to a schedule conflict. But then he'd take up a lot of the professor's time talking to them about pointless things just to keep control of the conversation. And when he talked to his fellow PhD students, all he wanted to talk about was sexually motivated burglaries and what kinds of emotions those offenders feel while committing the crime. It was questionable behavior, to say the least. Still, Snyder never thought Kohberger was actually dangerous. But some of his female students did. At some point, one of Snyder's students emailed a friend to say the TA quote, Looks like a murderer. One of Kohberger's fellow PhD students also called him a narcissist and said he had no empathy. And at least one other student said he seemed biased against everyone who wasn't his same demographic. In another instance, Kohberger openly told a female student that he would only date someone who was, quote, physically perfect and he would never be with someone who had a disability. They also believe Kohberger graded female students unfairly. And the authorities also get tips that suggest Coburger was creeping people out off campus, too. They speak with an exotic dancer who says Coburger had once been a customer of hers sometime between 2018 and 2019, three to four years before the murders. She claims that she heard him talking to himself about wanting to kill people and found it so alarming she requested security keep a close eye on him. Authorities get another tip from a female hotel clerk who says she had a weird encounter with Kohberger In June of 2022, just a few months before the murders. Apparently, he kept talking to her about knives and knife sheaths. Granted, authorities are getting so many tips that they can't believe every single thing people tell them. But the police aren't just relying on word of mouth to learn more about Bryan Kohberger. They're able to get access to his phone records beyond just the location data they have already seen. And they find even more evidence that suggests just how dark his mind really is.
- [09:00]
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- [09:28]
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- [10:38]
Katie Ring
Leading up to Bryan Coburger's trial, investigators dig deeper into his cell phone records. Coburger called his mom and dad, mother and Father, and had them saved in his phone like that as well. He would call Mother and Father every day. They were pretty much the only people he spoke to. But on the day of the murders, he talked to Mother for over three and a half hours. And four days after the murders, when he was still in Washington, Brian called Mother and they seemed to talk on the phone even more than usual that day. During one of their calls, Coburger's mom texted him an article about Zanna Kernodle and the injuries she sustained. His mom didn't say anything else in that text, which makes it appear like they may have been talking about the murders on the phone. However, there's no evidence to suggest that Coburger's moment knew he was the killer. In her eyes, they were just talking about it because her son lived in the area when it happened. From there, authorities find some odd and troubling things on Coburger's phone. They find a series of awkward selfies, including one he took of himself at 10:31am on November 13, six hours after the murders. Coburger is smiling and giving a thumbs up in the bathroom mirror in his apartment in Pullman. He's got his thick, bushy eyebrows, just like Dylan described. There also appears to be a shower curtain behind him that wasn't there when the police searched his apartment, which causes people to wonder if Coburger had gotten blood on it, then got rid of it as a way to destroy evidence. A shower curtain does seem like a great item to put down on the seat of a car to keep your car clean and prevent any transfer of any kind of DNA or blood. Just saying. Finally, Coburger's hand is red, and some people speculate that it looks like he had just scrubbed blood from it personally. With how many times he stabbed the victims, I wouldn't be surprised if his skin was raw from the friction between his gloves and the handle of the knife. Some say there's a band aid on his knuckles, which could also be a sign that he sustained wounds from the victims defending themselves. To add to that, Kohberger's classmates noted that he had bruised knuckles and some cuts on his hands. After the killings, authorities also uncover some incriminating Internet searches. On Christmas night, he visited the website Serial Killer Timelines. Kohberger was relatively good at scrubbing his history and often used incognito mode when browsing the Internet and NORDVPN to hide his IP address. But he didn't know that when he was clicking through these serial killer profiles, it was downloading files to his download directory. So analysts were able to see a long list of downloaded serial killer files. This isn't that unusual for someone studying criminology, but this is Christmas night and not only was Kohberger on break, he was also slipping in school to the point he had lost his job as a TA and school funding. So it is highly unlikely this search was for school purposes. He also searched for psychopathic paranoia, serial killer and wiretapping. On December 29 at 9:02am, he searched a few phrases for federal wiretapping. At 9:08am he read a New York Times article about the case that mentioned that the police were still looking for a car that matched his exact description. He then searches for auto detailing places near him and then a minute later starts shopping for a used car. Coburger was starting to unravel, but his instinct to do so wasn't too far off, because as we learned in the last episode, this is the time FBI agents were surveilling his family house, waiting to snag that trash that would allow them to match his DNA to the DNA on the sheath. Authorities also find evidence to suggest he listened to a Pullman police department scanner in the hours leading up to the murders. Yes, for those of you watching who still believe he is innocent, I know you're about to comment that it was just because there was a car crash near him, but do we really think this is yet another coincidence? The only connection they find between Brian and the victims is is a Google Maps search for the Mad Greek, the restaurant that Maddie and Zanna worked at, although there was no time stamp associated with it. Again, some people claim that because there's no obvious connection that he must be innocent. But a criminology major would know better than anyone that if you don't want to get caught as a serial killer, you don't choose people that can be tied to you. However, after the murders, he constantly looked up the victims names, updates on the murders and press releases from the police. He would also constantly Google his own name. He also managed to access a PDF of all the Hyundai Elantras registered on the Washington State University campus, which suggests he was trying to see how many others matched the description. On top of all of this, there's also evidence suggesting that Coburger specifically targeted the housemates at 1122 King Road. One of the most chilling discoveries comes from Kohberger's Instagram. By the time he was arrested, Coburger had deleted his account. But in 2023, People magazine reported that Kohberger followed Maddie, Zanna and Kaylee on Instagram. Not only that, but the outlet reported that he repeatedly DMed one of the girls, saying things like, hey, how are you? Authorities haven't revealed which of the girls Kohberger was DMing or whether that person even saw his messages. But they definitely never responded and none of the girls followed him back. However, that may not have stopped him from pursuing them in real life. Coburger's phone data also shows that it recognizes the WI Fi network for Mad Greek, which is the restaurant where Matty and Zanna worked now, this just means that his phone was in range of the restaurant's router at some point in time and may have connected to the WI Fi. However, one employee there tells reporters that Coburger visited the restaurant twice in the months leading up to the murders, both times to pick up a carryout order. This person says that they don't know if Maddy and Zanna were there when Coburger came in, but that they remember him because he had a very specific vegan order. However, in a Facebook post, the restaurant's owner says the claims are fabricated and asks for people to let employees grieve. In one part of her post, she says, quote, we all decided collectively to support the families and not share anything that could potentially harm the investigation or cause the families more stress. Her reaction likely stems from the fact that by now, media coverage around the case has blown up. Authorities are worried that all of the buzz will create potential juror bias. So officials do two things. First, they issue a gag order, which means no one close to the case or with official knowledge is allowed to talk to the press. Then, In September of 2024, almost two years after the murders, officials decide that if the trial takes place in Moscow, the jury could be heavily biased. So they move it about 300 miles south to Boise, Idaho. After that, trial proceedings are set to begin on August 4, 2025. However, no one ever learns what would have been presented in the courtroom because the case never goes to trial.
- [18:38]
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- [18:56]
Crime House Reporter
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- [19:56]
Katie Ring
Brian Coburger's trial is scheduled for August 4, 2025. But on June 30, just a few weeks before jury selection would begin, Coburger accepts a plea deal in order to avoid the death penalty. He changes his plea to guilty in all four murders. He also waives his right to an appeal. This means Coburger doesn't have to expand, explain his motive or any details of how he carried out the crime. It also means victims loved ones are spared from having to look at the gruesome crime scene photos in court. But the families have mixed feelings about it. Kaylee Gonzalez and Zanna Kernodle's families are opposed to the deal. They want Coburger to be tried in court so they can get long awaited answers to their questions. They also want him to face the death penalty, while Madison Mogan and Ethan Chapin's families are okay with avoiding a trial. But for those who do want to face Bryan Kohberger in court, they get their chance at his sentencing hearing, which takes place on July 23, 2025. Among those who deliver witness statements is Kaylee Gonzalez's sister, Olivia Gonzalez. Let's listen to some of what she had to say.
- [21:09]
Olivia Gonzalez
You didn't win. You just exposed yourself as the coward you are. You're a delusional, pathetic, hypochondriac loser who thought you were so much smarter than everybody else. The truth is, you're as dumb as they come. Stupid. Clumsy.
- [21:28]
Katie Ring
Slow.
- [21:29]
Olivia Gonzalez
Sloppy.
- [21:30]
Katie Ring
Weak. Dirty.
- [21:32]
Olivia Gonzalez
Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud. If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep in the middle of the night like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your ass.
- [21:50]
Katie Ring
Round of applause to you, Olivia. Their roommate, Dylan Mortenson, also delivered a moving speech. Let's check it out.
- [21:57]
Dylan Mortenson
He took away my ability to trust the world around me. What he did shattered me in places I didn't know could break. He tried to take everything from me. My friends, my safety, my identity, my future. He took their lives. But I will continue trying to be like them, to make them proud. Living is how I honor them.
- [22:24]
Katie Ring
In the end, Bryan Coburger is sentenced to four consecutive life sentences without parole. Maddie's father says he knows Co Burger's life in prison will be a quote unquote, terrible existence. And he's right. Kohberger is transferred to a maximum security prison in Kuna, Idaho, about 20 minutes south of Boise. He gets one shower every other day and one hour of recreation time per day. And this is how he'll spend the rest of his life. He's already complained of harassment from fellow inmates and requested a transfer from his current cell block to escape verbal threats he says he's been receiving. The transfer was denied. Kohberger spent most of his adult life thinking about how to commit a violent crime, but he clearly never thought about the repercussions. And ever since his plea deal was reached, we've learned a lot about what was going on in his mind because after the plea deal was announced, the gag order on the case was lifted. MPD and ISP have since released hundreds of pages of files about the crimes, as well as hundreds of crime scene photos and some body cam videos, excluding anywhere blood or bodies are visible. Ethan and Maddie's families have actually sued in order to prevent any more images of the victims bedrooms from being released. In addition to these files, many witnesses have made public statements that include new details about Bryan Kohberger. The information in these statements and the newly released files helps shed light on a possible broad motive, starting with some items that were found in his apartment, including a book titled Unsafe in the Ivory the Sexual Victimization of College Women and an essay Kohberger wrote for school titled why the Innocent Plead Guilty and the Guilty Go Free. To many, these items suggest that Coburger was not only obsessed with the idea of getting away with a crime, but that he was fixated on the idea of college women as a target. This theory is backed up by the fact that some of Coburger's classmates from DeSales University, where he studied before Washington State, describe his interest in the Incel mass murderer Elliot Roger. In 2014, Roger was 22 years old when he killed six people in a stabbing and shooting spree. Roger's video manifesto reveals that his crimes were fueled by an intense frustration over his virginity and the fact that a certain girl in Alpha Phi didn't like him. He also tried to claim he was a nice guy before carrying out the attacks. Elliot Rogers said he planned to target members of the Alpha Phi sorority because they were quote, the kind of girls he'd always desired but was never able to have. But instead of targeting the USC Alpha fees, he ended up driving up north to my alma mater, ucsb. Again, the argument that Brian didn't do this because he didn't have a strong connection to the victims falls through because his potential inspiration and the guy known as the father of the Incels didn't know his victims at UCSB either. Although Roger did kill three of his own roommates before the random attacks. After this information comes out, some theories emerge surrounding the Facebook user named Papa Roger, who caused concern in the popular group about the case. For a while, many people believed Kohberger was the owner of that account, especially since the profile picture resembled him. And once people learn about his obsession with Elliot Roger, they see this as further proof that Kohberger named the account after his idol. However, In July of 2025, authorities announced that they did not find a link between Kohberger and the Pauper Roger account. But that doesn't mean Kohberger wasn't inspired by the mass murderer Elliot Rodger. In addition to Kohberger always talking about Roger at school, Kaylee Gonzalez was a member of Alpha Phi at the University of Idaho, the same sorority Roger targeted at his school. Many people believe that Kaylee was the main person Coburger targeted because of the extreme injuries she sustained and the stalking she endured before the murders and the fact that she was also an Alpha fee. Authorities learn that in addition to those incidents, Kaylee had been receiving strange messages and in the mail and online. Police also have reason to wonder if Coburger somehow befriended Kaylee's dog Murphy before the murders as a way to make sure Murphy wouldn't bark when he entered the house. Witnesses say Murphy had started running off into the bushes behind the house and wouldn't come back when they called him. Some members of law enforcement have also drawn their own conclusions about what happened. Lead prosecutor Bill Thompson believes that either Kaylee or Maddie was Coburger's target, which is why he went up to the third floor, and that the one who wasn't his target, as well as Zanna and Ethan, were killed because they happened to be there. According to Dateline, there was an imprint on Zanna's chair from someone sitting on it, which leads many to theorize that Coburger was too exhausted to fight two more people after killing the four victims. I've seen a shocking amount of people commenting that this guy is innocent or just a patsy. So before we end, let's go through some of the comments I've seen. One, how can a single guy kill four people in about 10 minutes? Well, three of the four victims were asleep when he attacked them, and you can do a lot of damage with a tactical knife in an extremely short amount of time with little strength needed. Two, why was there no DNA under the victim's fingernails? Every inch of his skin was covered from head to toe. Even if someone scratched him, it wouldn't have transferred skin or blood to their fingernails. Three, why was none of the victim's blood or DNA in his car? Well, he cleaned it extremely well. And my guess would be that he took off his clothes after and that his shower curtain was covering the seats so he could wrap anything left over cleanly. 4. To people who quote the authorities saying that they had no direct evidence linking Coburger to the house. It is actually extremely difficult to get direct evidence. This means you have to have a video of the person doing a crime, a video of them breaking in, or DNA on items in the house. The fact that the DNA was on the sheath of the murder weapon made this technically circumstantial evidence. And most cases are built on multiple pieces of circumstantial evidence. Do you really think a guy with no friends just loaned someone the murder weapon? 5. Many think he is guilty but didn't do it alone. Considering this guy had 16 contacts in his phone, I highly doubt he had any accomplices. Simply looking at the guy, I'm 99.999% positive he would snitch on anyone and everyone involved. And lastly, besides the fact that he fits the profile perfectly, he admitted to doing it, he pled guilty. And if you're about to quote that 18 of people who have been exonerated had initially pleaded guilty, stat. Those are people who confess under unethical interrogation practices, not someone who is able to exercise his Fifth Amendment right, hire fancy lawyers, and then finally fess up to doing it after years because he didn't want to face the death penalty. And I'm pretty sure he knew he was going to lose this one, because even if you do get the death sentence, most people spend decades on death row. Crazy to not even take your chances. There's so much new information coming out about Bryan Coburger, but it's important that we don't lose sight of the people who lost their lives to his cross cruelty. Madison Mogan loved going to concerts with her dad. Her family said she was their hope and light and that this world was a better place because she was in it. Maddie and Kaylee Gonzalez were like sisters. They were celebrating their college careers before Kaylee was supposed to move to Texas for her new job. Zanna Kernodle was a role model to her older sister. People describe her as everybody's best friend. And Ethan Chapin had an infectious smile. He was an athlete, a triplet, and a devoted boyfriend, brother and son. If you want to do something tangible to help remember one of the victims in this case, you can buy tulip bulbs from the Ethan Smile foundation, which Ethan's parents founded to raise money for scholarships in his name. Finally, the Made With Kindness foundation was established to honor Maddie, Kaylee and Zanna. It provides scholarships, wellness support and empowerment initiatives. Nothing will ever make what happened to the four of them okay. Nothing will bring them back. But it's encouraging to see their loved ones honoring their memories in such a beautiful way. And as everyone tries to heal and find whatever closure they can, they can at least know that Maddie, Kaylee, Zanna and Ethan's killer has been brought to justice. What did you think of tonight's case? Drop your thoughts and theories in the comments. This might be the end of our five part special series on the Idaho student murders, but as always, the Crime House team will keep a close eye on any breaking updates that may come in. See you next time. If you haven't already, subscribe to our YouTube channel @Crime House Daily and follow us on social media rimehouse24.7 for real time updates. Because the pursuit of justice never stops.