B (4:24)

And this is at what time?

A (4:26)

This is like 3:30 in the afternoon. Oh, but Brittany just had worked an overnight shift at the Lowe's distribution center. So like normally when she gets off sometime before like 5am she would like go home, shower, sleep, maybe see Jeff later. But this day was different. So instead of going home first, she went straight to Jeff so that they could hang out a little bit before he had to go pick up his grandma.

B (4:47)

So it seems like it would be normal for her to like sleep in. So yeah.

A (4:51)

Cause she worked overnight I guess.

B (4:53)

Why is he calling her mom so soon then?

A (4:55)

Well, so yes, normal for her to sleep in because she could have used the extra sleep, but she rarely got it. So in addition to her overnight job, she also had one at this place called Alco, which is a discount store. And she was doing both jobs because she planned to save up money for nursing school. So again, could have used the sleep, but it was pretty unlike her to be asleep like that all day. Which it seems is maybe what made Jeff concerned enough to call her mom to begin with. And it turns out he had every right to be concerned because when Jeff walks into his bedroom, Britney is still in his bed where he says he left her. But she is not sleeping. Brittany is completely naked and there is blood everywhere on the sheets, on the pillow, cast off on the wall behind the bed. Like the kind of pattern you would see when someone is struck over and over again. But the thing is, whatever she had been beaten with something that they later determined to possibly be like a tire iron or a crowbar type thing that isn't around anywhere. In fact, nothing other than Britney seems out of place. Her jeans and boots are still right there on the floor where she left them when she changed out of her work clothes earlier that morning. Now interestingly, Jeff says that she was wearing a T shirt and underwear when she hopped into bed with him. The shirt not on her but still there. But the underwear she had on, that's gone. And here's the thing that really stands out to Wood county sheriff's deputies. Once they arrive in the bathroom, there are signs that the killer took a shower.

B (6:34)

Oh, that's kind of like someone who is comfortable there.

A (6:37)

My thoughts exactly. Everything so far points to this being close and personal. Someone who could keep composed enough to clean themselves up while Britney lay bludgeoned to death in that bed, in that

B (6:51)

bed, in her boyfriend's bed the one night she broke her routine and went there instead of home.

A (6:57)

And that part is really important. Like you said, this wasn't routine for Brittany. I told you she would normally go to her house first. And apparently Jeff's mom didn't like her very much either. Brittany wasn't close with the family. She and Jeff had only been dating like six months and they'd been on and off in that time. So. So to Britney's mom Patricia, it sort of felt like too much of a coincidence. Like okay, the one time that Brittany does this, this happens.

B (7:26)

So who all knew that she was gonna be there?

A (7:28)

Well, I mean it sounds like Jeff and his family would've been some of the only few people privy to her plan to crash there. But here's the thing. This wasn't Jeff's own personal pad. I mean he's 21 at the time, still living at home with mom s stepdad and younger brother and sister. And this is a small one story home now that morning, brother went to school, sister had stayed over with her boyfriend. So she's not there. And I guess she just went straight to school from his place. And stepdad drops mom off at work but he's back at like 7:45 or so and then he, Jeff and Britney are all there until stepdad and Jeff leave together to go to Grandma's at around 9am so when they arrive back back home that afternoon and Jeff makes this horrific discovery, supposedly stepdad is just right around the corner, close enough to hear him yell. But here's where something caught my attention. Wood County 911. What's the problem right now? What's exactly? His girlfriend's dead in the bed. She's dead?

B (8:31)

Yes. It looks like somebody coming there and hit her in the head with something. Mm. That sure doesn't sound like Jeff or his stepdad.

A (8:41)

Yeah. Cause it's Jeff's mom.

B (8:43)

Isn't she supposed to be at work?

A (8:45)

She was. But somehow around the same time Jeff and stepdad are finding Brittany, Jeff's mom is either already back home and just like didn't like notice Britney. Maybe she didn't go in the room or she just so happens to show up like at the same time they did to call 911. And if that's the case. The case. The timing is kind of wild because I don't think she normally got off work early enough to be there at 3:30. But apparently on this day she wanted to leave early because she needed to clean the house before grandma got back again. They're going to pick up grandma. Grandma's coming over for a visit and I don't know. This could be absolutely nothing. There's just nothing in the reports that explains when mom got there how she ended up getting home. Because she would have needed a ride.

B (9:28)

Right? Because stepdad dropped her off.

A (9:30)

They only had one car. I know our reporter Madison wanted to ask all of these questions, but Jeff's mom and stepdad have both since passed away, since 2007. In old police reports, though, stepdad does vouch for Jeff. They were together the whole ride to and from Grandma's.

B (9:50)

So if Jeff did something that really only leaves the short time they were like home alone when his mom was getting dropped off at work.

A (9:57)

Right? Well, not even that, because his stepdad vouches for him there too. He says that he saw Britney for himself, sleeping, but definitely still alive and well before they leave at 9 o', clock, like after he comes back from dropping mom off. And apparently they have to actually like pass through Jeff's bedroom on the way out the door.

B (10:17)

But are we, are we buying stepdad's story? Like he could be covering for Jeff, say something happened, Jeff comes to him for help, they make up this whole road trip thing to throw off suspicion. That would explain more of why Jeff started calling her mom. Like they're trying to establish this alibi.

A (10:35)

But it sounds, this is the thing. It sounds like the road trip was planned all along. Like it's the whole reason why Britney was even sleeping there to begin with because they knew that he was gonna have to go get grandma. So they wanted to hang out a bit before that. So if you're gonna theorize that the road trip was. Was a stage alibi that has, like, far reaching implications, it would be much bigger than that. Right. So before we get carried away with kind of, I think, far fetched theories, first things first. Detectives need to verify Jeff and his stepdad's shared story. Was this trip to get grandma even real? Now, the story was that they stopped at a convenience store along the way, picked up grandma, and then they made their way back home to Winnsborough. So investigators check that route, they pull surveillance footage from their stop, and the timestamps line up. Everything checks out. According to detectives, that feels like too simple. Well, it's just one piece. I mean, this rules out the possibility that they were lying about the trip. But there's still a possibility that something happened to Britney before they left.

B (11:42)

And how is Jeff reacting to all of this? Like, when the deputies show up and during all of the aftermath, devastated.

A (11:48)

I mean, distraught, I guess, how you would expect. But they still took him down to the sheriff's office and went in on him. Because according to Britney's family, there's real motive there. You see, we've talked to a lot of families of the murdered, and usually when a cop shows up at their door telling them that their loved one is dead, most of the time their first thought is like some sort of accident. Right? Like, because that is just so much more likely.

B (12:16)

Right. Like a car crash or something.

A (12:17)

Right. But that was not Patricia's first thought. She told Madison that the deputies who showed up would only tell her that her daughter was deceased. At first, they would not tell her how or when. Like zero details. But she was sure that her daughter had been murdered, and her immediate suspicion was her boyfriend, Jeff.

B (12:41)

So what's the history there?

A (12:43)

It's not deep, but Patricia told us that Jeff was just, like, on a completely different path than Britney. Not as responsible, no stable job. And like, the way she described it, she thought he was kind of dark, like emo vibes, but not in, like, the cute boy band kind of way. So she actually discouraged Britney from dating him. But even more than that, I mean, it's the timing of it all. You see, Brittany and Jeff had just gotten back together. According to Britney's mom, Jeff was Brittany's first love. Her first of a lot of things. But they had been broken up the month before. And during that time, Britney ended Up sleeping with another guy. Britney actually told Jeff about it. So it's not like he found out from some other place. But people had wondered if maybe like that could have been the thing behind this. Though when detectives ask Jeff about this, he tells them, absolutely not. They were broken up when this happened. It was like fair game. Britney did nothing wrong.

B (13:45)

Was there any abuse in their relationship?

A (13:47)

No. No abuse that her family ever knew of.

B (13:49)

So then what? The thinking is that he had sex with her like one more time and then made sure no one else could?

A (13:56)

Well, definitely not that, actually, because Jeff told police that they didn't sleep together when she came over that morning. Which, like, I'm sure investigators probably find a little hard to believe. Or maybe they like, believe that they didn't have sex right away when she came over. But they do think that this crime is sexually motivated. I mean, Britney is naked, her underwear is missing. They're probably pretty confident that they're going to be able to tie someone, Jeff or otherwise, to this crime through forensics. And honestly, him saying that they didn't have sex is great for detectives because if they do find DNA, like he has taken away any excuse for his to be there, right? But Britt, they get the shock of their lives when an autopsy is done, lab tests are run, and there is no semen found. The sheriff told us, according to the medical examiner, Britney actually was not sexually assaulted after all.

B (14:52)

So maybe Jeff's telling the truth.

A (14:54)

Well, they wanted to put that to the test, literally, and polygraph both Jeff and his stepdad. They couldn't do it right away though, because Winnsborough, this is out in the country kinda. So they're gonna have to bring in a polygrapher from another city. That's gonna take a minute. So in the meantime, they do what they can to go down other paths, like checking out this guy that Britney has supposedly slept with. Right. This like in a month ago or whatever. Now the guy cooperates, he sits down with them and says the same thing as everyone else. Their hookup was just this like one time thing. They'd been drinking, no hard feelings, like it didn't become more. And that's it, they cross him off the list.

B (15:32)

I mean, let's go back to the fact that hardly anyone knew that she would be over at that house. Like, who, who are those people again? That's like Jeff, his family, like, I guess her mom. But like, who else?

A (15:41)

Well, that was one of the questions they first asked Jeff. And Jeff brings up this guy named Cody. He admits that Kody is His weed guy. And he says that morning before he left, he'd put cash under this garden gnome outside their house. This was like their little system. Leave the money there, Cody would swing by later, drop off the weed. Except he says this day was different because by the time Jeff got back that afternoon, the money was gone, but there was no marijuana. So detectives go and track this Cody guy down, and his story complicates things. Yes, he admits that he sold weed to Jeff, but he says he didn't that day. He says that Jeff was like blowing up his phone, texting him, like, did you drop it off yet, dude? Like, did you go by the house? And Cody admits he like, got annoyed, so he just texted back, yes, but he says he didn't actually go over to the house.

B (16:35)

So either Jeff's telling the truth and he left the money, Cody went there and took it, putting him at the scene. Which means he's lying about being there. Or Jeff could be lying when he says the money got picked up because he's trying to place someone else there.

A (16:49)

Or option C, whoever else in this small circle of people who knew Britney was there alone maybe also knew about this garden gnome arrangement. Now, within about a week after Britney's murder, her family and friends gather for her funeral. And if you've ever been to a small town funeral, you know how they feel. The whole place shows up. People you haven't seen in years, people you barely know, people whispering about who

B (17:21)

may have done it, and probably people you don't even want to be there.

A (17:24)

Uh huh. And although detectives seem to be moving farther and farther from Jeff, the more they dissect his alibi, Britney's family makes it clear Jeff and his family are not welcome. Emotions are high. Nobody knows what happened yet. All the trust is thin for good reason. But them showing up anyway isn't actually the only drama that sticks with Britney's sister Hope at the funeral. Because there somebody else shows up, someone she actually might be more concerned about in this moment, and that is their grandfather, James McGlone. Now this isn't their grandfather by blood. It's their dad's adopted father. And Hope told us that at one point he walks up next to her, like puts his arm around her and says, have you gone to see the body yet? And she froze. Because this wasn't just a grieving grandpa asking an awkward question. See, no matter how many people are there at the funeral, she knows something that no one else does yet. A secret that Britney had been keeping that was big enough to be motive. For murder.

B (18:41)

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A (19:49)

Brittany had confided in her sister Hope before she died that their grandfather had been sexually abusing her. This went on from the time she was young, all up until fairly recently. It was devastating for Hope to hear, but at the time she didn't push Britney for more details. And trying to be a loyal younger sister, Hope hadn't told anyone right away. She wanted to leave that up to Britney to do when she was ready. But now that Britney's not there to speak for herself, now that grandpa is over here talking about the body like it doesn't belong to someone she loves, Hope felt compelled to come forward thinking that there might be a chance that he had something to do with what happened to Britney. And she was right to do so because other family members were able to fill in more of the blanks. And it comes out that Britney had told her aunts about how grandpa would make her feel uncomfortable. Like he would show up at her work and stuff. And it seemed to be getting worse once she started dating Jeff.

B (20:53)

Like he was triggered by her having her first real boyfriend.

A (20:57)

That or like now that she was getting older, now that she has a boyfriend, maybe he was worried that Britney was going to start telling people what he'd been doing. I mean, and we know now she already was.

B (21:09)

I mean if he'd been showing up at her work and stuff. Do we think he may have been following her too?

A (21:14)

So here's the wild part. James McGlone actually lives in the same community as Jeff, like right across the lake. So maybe he didn't know Britney was going to spend the night that night.

B (21:26)

But he could have easily seen that

A (21:28)

her truck was there and seen that everyone else had left. When this revelation makes it to investigators, they find out that even Jeff knew about the grandfather's abuse. Apparently Britney had confided in him too.

B (21:42)

So grandpa's biggest fear is becoming a reality.

A (21:46)

Yeah. Now the question is, did he know that or not? Or did he think that she still held his secret and getting rid of her might make it go away? I mean, you want to talk about motive, this is motive. So they check grandpa out, and pretty quickly they come to one conclusion. He couldn't have killed Britney. I guess time cards show that from 7am to 4:30pm on the day she was murdered, he was at work. Now, James ended up dying in 2009, but detectives feel pretty confident that he didn't commit this crime. Murder against Brittany. But the whole ordeal coming to light so suddenly made the family realize that Britney may have been surrounded by more than just one person capable of pure evil. That's a hard pill for them to swallow. And the mystery only deepens when once polygraphs are administered, weed guy Cody pass Jeff's stepdad pass Jeff. They say he passes with flying colors. So what now? Police are probably shocked and a lot stumped. I mean, I know polygraphs aren't perfect, but these combined with other verification that they've been able to do of people's alibis, it really is looking like none of these people were involved. So detectives go back. What had they missed? Who had they missed? And it turns out there was just one more person. Someone easy to gloss over because his role in Britney's life seemed so insignificant, almost non existent. But he was the only other person that for a fact knew Britney was in the home alone that day. Someone who was close enough to the family to know that there might be money under the garden gnome. And his name is Chad Carr. I mentioned that Jeff had two younger siblings, a brother and a sister. Well, his sister Velva is dating Chad and included in the original timeline that Jeff gave deputies of the day that Britney was murdered. He mentions that around 8:30 in the morning or so, as him and his stepdad are fixing up their car to leave, Chad stopped by to pick something up for Velva. And the interaction they have is like, pretty brief. Like, he didn't even go into the house. They actually told him not to because Britney was there sleeping. So he gets what he needs from them and leaves.

B (24:14)

Why isn't he also at school at 8:30 in the morning?

A (24:17)

Oh, because Chad is a grown ass man. He isn't in school anymore. He's 25 years old at the time, dating Jeff's high school sister.

B (24:25)

I'm sorry. Absolutely.

A (24:27)

Not to make it even worse, people we spoke to told us that it wasn't just her age. She also may have been mentally vulnerable too. So Chad wasn't there when they left the house. And like I said, he has almost no connection to Brittany other than the fact that they're like, dating siblings. They don't even really hang out. And there's no beef between them. Like, there were people with far more motive, but now they're realizing that maybe he's the only person who checks a lot of most of all of the boxes.

B (24:58)

I mean, did he have a key to the house?

A (25:00)

He didn't. And, like, there was no forced entry, but he would have known that the family didn't usually lock their doors out there in the country where they live. So now that they're looking at Chad in a new light, they're going back through every page of the file that they have. Did we, like, miss anything else? Like, does he show up anywhere else? And they do find this one report that stands out. It's from a deputy who was there on scene right after they had found Britney. And sometime after school, Velvet and Chad show back up at the house. And Chad is acting straight up weird. He is shaking, he's visibly nervous, he's all fidgety. So nervous that Velvet actually tells him to chill out, that the deputy's a nice guy, and maybe they chalk it up to the stress of the situation. Like, this is a situation most people don't find themselves in, so they didn't do anything with it at the time. But now, now they want to have another conversation with this Chad guy. He's reluctant to comply at first, but when he does, he gives detectives a play by play of his entire day. Like, he's extremely detailed about every stop that he made. Almost like he's trying to establish an alibi before anyone even asks him. Him for one. Here's what Chad lays out. He says that after he stopped by the family's house that morning, he drove to Alco, where his aunt works, and she asked him to pick up breakfast for her at Sonic. But instead of Going straight there. He says that he went home first to change clothes for what law enforcement later remember as being like some weather related reason, like maybe it was like too hot or something. Then he goes to Sonic, then he goes back to Alco to drop off the food. And then after that he says he arrives 15 minutes early to his 10 o' clock eye appointment. And then he left the doctors at around 1140 or so. From there he picks up Velva from school. At 11:55, they go to the bank, they go to lunch. And then after lunch, Chad and Velva go back to the eye doctors at 1:30.

B (27:00)

Why do they go back?

A (27:01)

I don't know. It probably, it's not in the reports that we say, I'm assuming to like pick up a prescription or glasses or something, whatever. But after the eye doctor they go to the insurance office and then a flower shop, then another store, back to Alco.

B (27:13)

That's a lot of stuff.

A (27:14)

I know. And then finally that is when Chad and Velvet end up at the crime scene shortly after law enforcement. So let's call that somewhere between like 3:30 and 4ish. Okay. And when investigators start trying to verify his timeline, it does check out sort of. So Chad did go to his eye doctor appointment that was scheduled for 10am however, he's saying he got there early. But according to two staff members, Chad actually showed up late at 10:20. And they remember this clearly because he even called to give them a heads up that he was going to be late, said that he was having car trouble or something, which, like, weird. I don't think he mentioned any car trouble to detectives.

B (27:55)

But like maybe he was just like using excuse at the doctor's office like to like make up for the like, you know, just to get out of it, you know.

A (28:03)

Sure. But then why was he really late if he didn't have car trouble?

B (28:08)

Great question.

A (28:08)

And remember how Chad said that he went home and changed his clothes that morning because it was like too hot weather related? Well, sure, maybe that was the reason. But we pulled the weather reports and it was fairly mild for Texas that May morning. High 60s, low 70s. So detectives told us that they found that excuse for why he might have been in different clothes when people saw him and when he showed up on surveillance footage week. And they know Britney wasn't just killed, right? She was beaten to death in a small room. Chances are that her killer was covered in her blood. Like you can't be walking around like that. And don't forget one of the earliest flags to detectives was that the shower in the house appeared to have been used.

B (28:53)

Right.

A (28:53)

And as they keep digging into Chad's story, they realize that even though he is accounted for for a lot of the day, either by people or with surveillance video, there is this small window of time where he wasn't from around 9:21, when he shows up on surveillance footage leaving the Alco store, until about 10:20, when the doctor's office says that he finally shows up for his appointment.

B (29:18)

So he would have had to do all that driving, commit the murder, and clean himself up in, like an hour.

A (29:25)

Yeah, but all the stops. I mean, again, it's just like the stops he made in that little window. They're like, in a super close radius, like from the Alco to the crime scene. It's like six minutes. Oh. So they give Chad the same treatment that they do everyone else, bring in the polygrapher, and finally they get their first big fat fail. Obviously, this doesn't mean everything, but along with the other circumstantial evidence, it is something. Yeah, they just need something more. Because I think the thing that was partially haunting everyone was. Why? Because when they talk to Britney's family, they say they didn't know this guy from Adam. This was the first time they were ever even hearing the name Chad Carr. And according to Britney's mom and sister, he and Britney seemed to just be like ships passing in the night. Like, orbiting each other from time to time, maybe, sure, but, like, simply acquaintances. He was just Jeff's sister's boyfriend. And this isn't just coming from them. No one they talk to could connect Chad to Britney in any meaningful way. And even in all our reporting, the only thing we were able to dig up is that Britney had mentioned Chad before to an aunt. Not even by name, just calling him Velva's boyfriend. But she said that he gave her the creeps. And listen, when you talk about motive, like, we know nothing from the house was stolen. So it's not like he went to the house to try and take things while she was sleeping. And then she surprised him. Someone went to that room to kill her. That was the goal here.

B (30:59)

I mean, to me, there has to be some kind of sexual component, though, like with her being naked and her underwear missing.

A (31:06)

I agree. It's just that no one can point to anything that Chad ever said or did that would be a precursor to this. At least not to Britney. But when they did look into Chad's past, there was something hard to ignore. You see, Years earlier, in 2001, a woman reported to deputies that Chad assaulted her by hitting her in the head with a jack handle, which I don't know if you're familiar with that.

B (31:33)

Yeah, it's like a tire iron.

A (31:35)

Yeah. The kind of weapon that Britney was possibly killed with. The weapon that they've never been able to find. And listen, once you hear the details of this other attack, it's hard not to draw some chilling parallels. Starting a new business can be intimidating. I mean, the amount of tasks you have to juggle can get overwhelming quickly. And it's like you have to be an expert in everything all at once. I mean, you think when I started Crime Junkie, I thought I would be running a merch store one day? No. But when that day came, before I could even hire help, I had to expertly run a merch store. And I did it with Shopify. And you know what? It doesn't matter how big we've grown, how many team members we have who are actual experts now, we still use Shopify. Shopify drives e commerce. Whether you're a household name like audiocheck now, or if you're a creator just getting started like I was eight years ago, the platform acts as your built in business partner and simplifies all your tasks. Imagine the ease of building your dream store with hundreds of beautiful templates, leverage AI writing tools for product descriptions and photo enhancements. In seconds, you can even create email and social campaigns with ease. So start your business today with the industry's best partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com crimejunkie go to shopify.com crimejunkIe that's shopify.com crimejunkiE. The wilderness is meant to be a place of peace, but for some, it became the setting of tragedy. The podcast Park Predators explores true stories of people who encountered danger where they least expected it. Deep in forests, along remote trails, or while camping under the stars. Each episode examines a different case with the same careful research and storytelling you get here on crimejanky. You can start listening to Park Predators now, wherever you get your podcasts. According to the report we have, it's a couple of days before Christmas in 2001 in the same small town of Winnsboro, Texas. A woman we're going to call Debbie was working the second shift at her parents video store in town when Chad Carr drops by with his wife.

B (33:57)

Wife?

A (33:57)

Yeah, he'd been married before. He's obviously divorced by the time he was dating Velva by the time that Brittany was murdered. But apparently he had gotten married pretty young, like when he was 18. Now Debbie knew Chad. He was good friends with her soon to be ex husband. So they get to talking and she mentions how her parents have a bunch of people in town staying at their place for the holidays. Space for her and her daughter was getting tight, so she was actually going to spend the night. In the report just says the trailer. So I don't know if this was like her old place with her husband or if her family owned it or what, but her and her daughter were gonna go there so that they didn't have to sleep on the couch. So there's nothing to this. Chad and his wife leave. Debbie gets off work at 10, picks up her daughter and her pup from her mom, and then goes to the trailer at around 11. Now Debbie says she puts her daughter down in bed and then she stays up watching movies and she was kind of like dozing in and out. So finally at like 5:30 in the morning, she went to the bedroom to sleep next to her daughter. But shortly after laying down, her dog starts barking. That's not normal. So she kind of like sits there still for a second and then she hears leaves crunching like footsteps and then knocks on her front door. So Debbie gets up and as she's making her short walk to the front door, she could see who was standing outside side, it's Chad Carr. He's like looking through the glass and she could tell that he spotted her. So she goes to the door and opens it and asks Chad the obvious question, like, why are you here at this hour? And he says, oh, I was just in the area picking up a coworker.

B (35:33)

Okay.

A (35:34)

But her spidey senses go off. Like she knows this co worker that he mentioned. Like he gave her a specific name and that person doesn't live around here. So she says the name kind of skeptically, like you're picking up that guy.

B (35:46)

Him?

A (35:46)

Yeah. And that's when Chad like backtracks. Oh, like, no, not that guy. It was actually one of that guy's friends. Like it doesn't matter. He's not home anyways. But that's neither here nor there. He says, I stopped by because I saw someone outside your trailer. And as I pulled up, this small car sped away. Now this obviously worries her, so she's like, okay, can you just like stay here on the front porch, keep an eye out. I'm gonna like get my daughter together, get our stuff, we're gonna go back to my parents house. So she goes to the bedroom to get her things and when she comes back to the living room, she sees Chad standing there very much. Not on the front porch, like she asked, but still she doesn't seem concerned because Chad's there to help, right? So she told him again, like, listen, I'm just gonna get my things together. And she goes to, like, move past him, and she kneels down on the floor for something. And then Chad asks her this chilling question. Are you sure there's no one else here? Of course she's sure. Like, what do you mean?

B (36:43)

Yeah.

A (36:44)

And then came the blow to her head. This didn't knock Debbie out, but it stunned her. So she, like, jumps up and yelled, you just hit me in the head. And when she flicked on the light, she saw Chad with a red jack handle that had a rubber grip. And Chad seemed stunned, too. He. He was saying, oh, my God, I'm going to jail. Please don't tell anybody what? And I don't know if she meant it at the time or if she was just in shock or survival mode, but she told him that she wouldn't. She just needed to get her daughter. But when she went to the room and, like, bent down to pick up her daughter, she felt blood dripping down her neck. And so she, like, reaches back with both hands, touches the spot where she'd been hit, and when she looks at her hands, they are covered in blood. Oh, my God. And when Chad saw it, he just began apologizing. There wasn't time for apologies, though. She told him she needed to get to a hospital now. He needed to drive her, and he did. She had to get three staples in her head to close the wound. Now, I don't know what exactly she told staff at the hospital or if Chad went in with her, but I think that she was still trying to make sense of what had happened. So before going to police, she actually went to Chad's wife first. And she's told by her that when Chad got home that day, he was acting really off upset. And when she asked what was wrong, at first he would say that he had just done something really bad. But she, like, kept pressing him. I'm not gonna let my husband be like, I did something really bad, and

B (38:19)

then be like, okay, cool, thanks.

A (38:20)

Like, what. What was really bad? And he finally told her, though, what his exact words were to his wife. I don't know. I just know that the day after Christmas, Debbie finally worked up the courage to report what had happened to police. But when they go to Chad, he says this was all a big misunderstanding, and he has, like, this whole story. So he says that on some previous date, he had met some guy at a gas station where he normally eats breakfast. And that guy wanted to talk to Chad's boss about a job. So Chad was going to pick this guy up the morning of the 22nd and take him to his work. But this guy, who, by the way, he can't even name, he couldn't find his house. So he took this rural road that went by Debbie's house, like, back to wherever he was going because it was a faster way. Now, he says that he saw a small car parked in front of her place, so he went to see if she was all right.

B (39:19)

And is he stopping at, like, every house with a parked car? Cause, like, Right, okay, there's a car there. She's there. We know that.

A (39:26)

But he's like. So I got to the door, see if she's all right, and she's like, oh, you scared me, because I heard somebody walking. So he says that she was scared. She was gonna follow him back into town. So he waits in the living room while she went and gathered her things. But then at some point, he gets startled by some person walking by and hits them in the head with the jack handle and realizes, oh, my God, I accidentally hid. Debbie.

B (39:48)

Debbie, the person that you're there specifically for, you've talked to.

A (39:51)

You know, the only person in the. This is a trailer. We're not in, like, a 5,000 square foot home. We are in a small trailer. You know, it's her there.

B (39:58)

Well, and also, like, the jack handle. Why do we have it to begin with?

A (40:02)

I don't know if he, like, showed up at the door with it. It's like, there's nothing mentioned in, like,

B (40:06)

he didn't just, like, operate with, like, a jack handle in his hand.

A (40:08)

So I don't know if he, like, came to. To the door with it. Again, his whole thing, at least according to Debbie's story, is like, oh, I saw someone around. So I don't know if he, like, had it initially. I don't know if he went back out and got. I have no idea where this thing came from as far as, like, him bringing it into the trailer. I do know that it comes up that his wife says he actually borrowed this thing from a friend, so it's not even his. Which I don't know if it's just, like, a coincidence that he has this thing or.

B (40:33)

I mean, or he's using it because it, like, as a weapon. Because it's not.

A (40:38)

Yeah, maybe. And also, like, why was he there

B (40:40)

in the first place. Like, I don't understand why he would stop. Like why he exists in this like space at all.

A (40:45)

Well, so here plot twist, I originally thought it seemed like there wasn't a motive for this. Like, kind of like in Britney's case. Right. Like it's like, why, why this person? Right. Because there's nothing in the police reports that goes to motive. Is it just because you knew she was going to be alone? Is it like you're her almost ex husband's friend? Like whatever. But then we learned from a couple of people close to the situation that what was in the reports may not be the actual full story. Surprise, surprise. Allegedly Chad and Debbie had been having an affair. And apparently Debbie was about to spill the beans to Chad's then wife. And obviously he was not happy about that.

B (41:30)

Which, that makes way more sense why she took a minute before filing any kind of report.

A (41:36)

Yeah. And if that's true, it all kind of clicks into place for me. But it actually is the one thing then that really differentiates this attack from the attack on Britney. Right.

B (41:47)

Because like he has a connection here.

A (41:49)

Right. And we asked and nobody thought because the first time I heard this I'm like, oh my God, do you think there was anything with Chad and Brittany? And we asked everyone, nobody thought they had anything going on. His connection to Britney is still pretty much nada. Now Chad doesn't commit any more offenses for the next four years, but that's because he ends up serving time for this attack on Debbie. He pled no contest to the assault charge he was eventually hit with. And he stayed in jail until early 2006. But just a few months after getting out, he's accused of sexually assaulting his ex wife. Ex. Because she had obviously moved on while he was in jail and for all the Debbie stuff. And then less than a year after that, Britney is brutally murdered and he becomes the main suspect. With that passed a shaky alibi in a failed polygraph, detectives have enough to get a search warrant for his aunt's place where he'd been living. They're looking for anything to physically link him to the crime. Bloody clothes. Clothes, A murder weapon, Britney's missing underwear. Oh yeah. And they do find and take some interesting items into evidence, like a pair of white shorts with what appears to be drops of blood on them and a white T shirt that also appears to have blood on it. A gray ski mask and women's underwear. Two pairs. One is pink size 7, the other is white size 5. Now there's no Blood on either pair or anything like that. And we know Chad is dating Velvet then, right? Like, could be hers. So they go to Jeff's mom, and she says, the pink ones, the size 7 ones, those are Velva. She knows that. But the size 5, no one in that house seems to claim those. So then they go to Brittany's mom, and sure enough, she tells them that the size 5 is the exact same size that Britney wore.

B (43:45)

So they've got Chad.

A (43:46)

Not quite. This search didn't happen until more than two weeks after the murder. And according to law enforcement, it seemed like the underwear had been washed by the time that investigators got a hold of them. So even though they do send them off for testing, nothing comes back that would definitively link Britney to the underwear.

B (44:05)

Okay, did Jeff remember her underwear being white that morning when she got into bed? Like, could. Could he have ID them?

A (44:11)

This. This was my question, too. But in all of the documents we have, there is no record of anyone specifically asking Jeff this, so I don't know. And Madison tried reaching out to him to ask about this, along with a lot of other things, but as of this recording, we haven't heard back from him.

B (44:28)

Okay, but there was other clothing, like the shorts and the shirt. Like, whose blood was on those?

A (44:33)

I don't know. It sounds like the testing didn't come back with anything useful on those either. Like, either it was inconclusive or maybe it was Chad's, but, like, it didn't give them anything to go on.

B (44:44)

What about all the stuff at the actual crime scene back at Jeff's house? Like, this was a violent scene. I think that there'd be something there, like maybe under her fingernails, just something.

A (44:57)

The fingernails that we asked about. Those. Apparently Britney's, were too short. So, like, nothing helpful there. But to your point, yeah, yeah, you'd think there would be some. Something somewhere at that scene. Especially because they think that this is a killer who apparently sticks around long enough to take a shower before leaving. And that's one of the reasons that they actually test the shower, including the drain. But here's the catch. According to the sheriff, there's only one bathroom in that whole house.

B (45:22)

So it's a really shared space. Then even if they can place Chad in that bathroom, it kind of means nothing.

A (45:28)

Well, except for the fact that it. It kind of might if they can place him there. Because apparently Chad makes a specific statement to authorities that I find really interesting. When they tell Chad that they're in the process of testing evidence, he says something like, my DNA will Not be on that girl or in that room.

B (45:48)

I honestly was expecting him to, like, preemptively explain why his DNA was there.

A (45:54)

I know. That's why I was, like, surprised. But he doesn't do that. In his original statement, Chad says that he never went inside that house.

B (45:59)

Is he talking, like, just that morning or ever?

A (46:03)

I think he's just talking about the day of the murder, but, like, still.

B (46:06)

So a statement like that, I have to wonder, like, does that come from, like, the confidence, from being so meticulous about cleaning up after yourself or from being innocent?

A (46:16)

I mean, I know what a defense attorney would argue, because in the early days, most of what they find at the scene seems to belong to Britney or people living in the house. Nothing that clearly identifies an outside attacker.

B (46:29)

Okay, but would Chad technically count as an outside attacker if he'd been at the house at some point?

A (46:35)

I mean, I know what you're saying. Like, I feel like I'm, like, dancing around, so I feel like I'm being a little cryptic here. And that's because investigators were tight lipped with us surrounding DNA stuff. But from what I could gather, if they did have anything early on, it was either inconclusive or too limited to point to, like, a sure suspect. So in that early time frame, like, the investigation starts to slow way down.

B (47:03)

You're kidding me. Like, they have so much. Where is Velva in all this? Like, this is her boyfriend they're accusing of murder.

A (47:11)

You know, I don't think she's saying a lot initially. I mean, it sounds like they're really only talking to her at the scene seen that day, because, like, she was in school when this happened. Right. And then after they're, like, focused on Chad, it doesn't seem like they circle back around to her, at least, like, in any real formal way. Maybe she was still with him for a little bit and they thought that she would take his side. I don't know. But she doesn't stay with him, like, long term. Like, I know that for sure. And sometime after they break up, she does actually seek out police because she wants to talk to them. She thinks that she has information that could help them. Starting a new business can be intimidating. I mean, the amount of tasks you have to juggle can get overwhelming quickly. And it's like you have to be an expert in everything all at once. I mean, you think when I started Crime Junkie, I thought I would be running a merch store one day? I know, but when that day came, before I could even hire help, I had to expertly run a merch store. And I did it with Shopify. And you know what? It doesn't matter how big we've grown, how many team members we have who are actual experts now, we still use Shopify. Shopify drives e commerce. Whether you're a household name like audiocheck now or if you're a creator just getting started like I was eight years ago, the platform acts as your built in business partner and simplifies all your tasks. Imagine the ease of building your dream store with hundreds of beautiful templates, leverage AI writing tools for product descriptions and photo enhancements. In seconds, you can even create email and social campaigns with ease. So start your business today with the industry's best partner, Shopify, and start hearing Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com crimejunkie go to shopify.com crimejunkIe that's shopify.com crimejunkiE. The wilderness is meant to be a place of peace, but for some it became the setting of tragedy. The podcast Park Predators explores true stories of people who encountered danger where they least expected it. Deep in forests, along remote trails, or while camping under the stars. Each episode examines a different case with the same careful research and storytelling you get here on Crime Gen. You can start listening to Park Predators now, wherever you get your podcasts. About eight months after Brittany McGlone's murder, Velva asked to have a conversation with police about Chad. She tells them there were things about that day that now, looking back, don't sit right with her. She says that when Chad picked her up from school that afternoon, something was off. Like he seemed nervous and there was this distinct smell that she remembers it was her body wash, soft soap, ultra rich shea butter. And this is chilling to her because to her knowledge, Chad hadn't showered at her house that day. There would have been no reason to because, by the way, I told you she hadn't even stayed at her house the night before, remember? Right. The two of them spent the night together at his aunt's house. She went straight to school from there. And when he dropped her off, he didn't smell like that. So she asked him like, did you take a shower? And he says yes. So then she asked the natural follow up question, did you shower at my house? And he just doesn't answer, according to her.

B (50:46)

And sometimes silence speaks volumes.

A (50:49)

Now they went to her house, right? And the scene was unfolding. It was understandably distracting, right? So maybe like you don't press in on it then. And we know at Least one deputy is flagging how strange Chad is acting. But Velvet says that he was acting odd the rest of the day, too, like he didn't want to be alone afterward. And at one point, she says that he even called his aunt to, like, come be with him, which all of

B (51:12)

this seems, like, a little bit dramatic when he acts like is saying everyone agrees that he barely even knew Britney, right?

A (51:20)

Yes. And then Velva gives investigators something that they have been struggling to find. A possible motive outside of just a propensity for violence. Finally, she says that Chad had complained before that Brittany was allowed to stay overnight at Jeff's house, but he wasn't.

B (51:40)

Wait, that's it?

A (51:41)

That's.

B (51:41)

That's the motive?

A (51:42)

That's all she can come up with in the last eight months. And look, on its own, it's not a strong motive. No, it might not even be the motive. And quite frankly, it doesn't even really make much sense to me, because from everything we learned from Britney's mom Patricia, sleeping over after the night shift wasn't even something that Britney really ever did.

B (52:01)

Wait, if he wasn't allowed to stay over, wouldn't that take away any, like, innocent explanation for his DNA to be in some specific places of the house if they were to ever find it?

A (52:14)

If. But whatever they do have, it's apparently not enough to make the people in charge think that they should move forward. So even after Velva gives her statement, nothing much changes for years. And the longer it sits, the more leads dry up, the colder and colder her case gets until a new sheriff comes to town. Literally. Well, kind of literally. In 2021, there is a new sheriff, Kelly Cole, but he'd actually been there from the very beginning, working in law enforcement in the same county where Brittany was killed. He knew the details. He knew the mistakes. And now he has the authority to try and make it right. So he does try. Alongside Captain Mike Chilson, they start going back through everything. Old reports, old interviews, old evidence. And at the center of it all is the same name they had before. Chad Carr. Because in the years since Brittany's murder, Chad hasn't stayed out of trouble. He went on to serve 10 years for sexually assaulting his ex wife. And that matters because now investigators aren't just looking at a suspect. They're looking at a pattern. A pattern that frustrates Britney's family, because Chad didn't even end up having to register as a sex offender after this. And I know we've been searching for a strong why here when there might not really be one at all. So maybe the why is just an appetite for aggression and not just with women. Court filings that we got our hands on alleged prior incidents of animal crime cruelty. One involving a cat and another involving multiple stray cats and kittens. As Sheriff Cole and Captain Chilson are taking their fresh look, it doesn't appear like they uncover some brand spanking new evidence or anything. They just ultimately believed that there had been enough to move forward with an arrest all along.

B (54:16)

So the previous administrations just didn't even want to try then?

A (54:19)

Sounds like it. So over 15 years later, it is now 2022. Chad Carr is arrested for capital murder. While describing that moment to us, Captain Chilson said that Chad didn't even seem surprised, but rather it felt more like he was, he believes, maybe relieved. And without anything ever even coming up about DNA, we were told that Chad was already changing his story about not being inside the house that day. He preemptively starts indicating to a Texas Ranger that he'd been in and out of there all of the time.

B (54:54)

So he was thinking that they'd found

A (54:56)

something then maybe, I don't know. But he's booked into jail and for the first time in years, it feels like this case is moving forward. And for Brittany's family, it's overwhelming. It's hope, maybe even the start of healing. But in cases like this, we know that an arrest is isn't the end. It's just like the next step. Especially in Texas, because before a felony case can go to trial, it has to go through a grand jury. Prosecutors have to lay out what they believe happened and why Chad Carr should stand trial for Britney's murder. A decision takes just about the full 90 days that they're given to decide. And then the grand jury returns a no bill, meaning their will be be no trial.

B (55:43)

How is that possible? I mean, this is to me like far from a weak case.

A (55:48)

Listen, I especially that you're not convicting him, you're saying there should be a trial. I agree. According to Sheriff Cole and Captain Chilson, they say the problem wasn't the case itself. It's that they say the grand jury never heard all of their case. They say that they say that key testimony, including their own, was never proven presented and the process ended before the full picture could really be totally laid out. But like, it doesn't matter now. The results are the same.

B (56:15)

Like, and Chad just walks away a free man.

A (56:18)

And Britney's family is left right back where they started.

B (56:22)

Okay, just to be clear, double jeopardy, it doesn't apply to grand juries. Right? Like just actual trials and verdicts.

A (56:29)

So you are correct. So Chad Carr could still stand trial for this case if it ever went to a new grand jury and they chose to indict. Which is why, like this. No, Bill didn't stop detectives from working this case. They're still reviewing evidence. They're still looking for a way forward. And when it comes to the forensic side of things, the sheriff is careful with his words. He makes it clear a lot has already been tested, and most of what. What has come back makes sense. It's either Britney's or people living in the house. But then he says something very interesting. He acknowledges that there is DNA. They're still looking at that DNA recovered from the shower that doesn't belong to someone who lived in that house. He won't go into more detail than that, at least not yet. Because in his words, there are still things they have to protect, still avenues that they're going down, still evidence that could matter. Which means this isn't over. Not for investigators, and definitely not for Brittany's family. The question now isn't if something else comes. I think it's when we tried reaching out to Chad Carr every which way we could. Phone numbers, Facebook, even sent a letter to where we think he might be living now. But as of this recording, he hasn't responded to us. The number one question that I wanted to ask him directly is, did you murder Brittany McGlone? Because to this day, Captain Chilson says that he doesn't believe Chad Carr has ever explicitly denied murdering Britney. Oh, he said things like, you won't find my DNA. I couldn't have done it. But never a flat out denial. Brittany McGlone's family was a recipient of a Season of justice grant. I don't know if you knew that. In 2025, they put up a billboard just northeast of Winnsboro in Sulphur Springs, Texas, asking for tips. It's been up for a year, but it's scheduled to come down any day now. Which is why I wanted to make sure that this episode went up right on the anniversary of Britney's murder, so that her family's plea for help could always be heard. Not just by the people of Wood county, but people all over the world. And sure, Brittany's loved ones would be grateful for a confession or some shiny new piece of evidence, but the heavy weight lies with everything they've had to live without. Because while investigators can go back over timelines, maybe retest DNA, they don't get to go back. They don't get more time with Brittany, just more missed birthdays without her. And in a place where everybody knows everybody, you would think the truth would be easy to find. But sometimes the smaller the circle, the easier it is to keep things in. And for Britney's family, that close circle hasn't given them more answers. It has just left them on the outside, still waiting. So if you know something, or you could be someone who finally breaks that small circle, you can stay anonymous by calling Wood County Crime Stoppers at 903-760-1008. Or you can contact the Wood County Sheriff's office directly at 903-763-2201. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com

B (60:15)

and you can follow us on Instagram

A (60:17)

@crimejunkie podcast we'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Sam. Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. I think Chuck would approve. Sometimes in the quiet corners of our world, or even in the glaring light of day, events unfold that defy the very fabric of reason. There is no scientific, logical, or readily apparent explanation for what we witness. It challenges our understanding, our beliefs, and even our sanity. Why do these things happen? What forces are at play? I'm Yvette Gentile. And I'm her sister, Racha Pecorero. Every week on our podcast so Supernatural, we dive deep into some of the earth's most bizarre and inexplicable occurrences. We don't just observe them. We actively try to explain, explain the unexplainable. So if you're ready to have your perceptions challenged and your curiosity ignited, listen to so Supernatural every Friday wherever you get your podcasts.