Anna Kendrick is CJAF!

Summary

Crime Junkie Podcast Summary: "Anna Kendrick is CJAF!"

Episode Title: Anna Kendrick is CJAF!
Host: Ashley Flowers
Guest: Anna Kendrick
Podcast: Crime Junkie
Presented by: audiochuck Media Company

---

Introduction

In this special episode of Crime Junkie, host Ashley Flowers sits down with acclaimed actress and director Anna Kendrick to discuss her directorial debut, "Woman of the Hour." The film delves into the chilling true story of Rodney Alcala, infamously known as the Dating Game Killer. This in-depth conversation explores Anna's journey from a true crime enthusiast to a filmmaker deeply invested in portraying real-life tragedies with emotional authenticity.

---

About "Woman of the Hour"

Anna Kendrick introduces her first foray into directing with "Woman of the Hour," a Netflix film that dramatizes the terrifying exploits of Rodney Alcala during the 1970s. Kendrick emphasizes the film's focus on the impact of Alcala's crimes on the women he victimized, aiming to center their stories and emotional experiences.

Anna Kendrick [10:06]: "So it's based on the story of Rodney Alcala, who was a serial killer in the 1970s. The Dating Game piece is really used as a framing device for the movie because it's evocative of the question of who can you trust."

---

Anna's Journey into True Crime

Anna shares her personal evolution from a casual true crime fan to someone who becomes deeply engrossed in the details of such cases. This transformation was catalyzed by experiencing her own traumatic relationship, which heightened her empathy and understanding of the victims' perspectives.

Anna Kendrick [05:06]: "I think that there's a way in which we can sublimate our own stuff by feeling like if I can just get to the bottom of why that guy or that person did that thing, maybe I could uncover some universal human truth and I could make sure that I never found myself in a situation like that again."

---

Production Insights and Challenges

The conversation delves into the challenges Anna faced while transitioning from acting to directing. With a limited budget and a tight shooting schedule of 24 days, Kendrick discusses the pressures of stepping into a directorial role and ensuring the film remained true to its emotional core despite logistical constraints.

Anna Kendrick [14:09]: "I always feel a little embarrassed saying this, but I think I had told myself I just wasn't interested in directing because I think that it's vulnerable to want something and, you know, you might not get it or you might get it and you might fail."

---

Emotional and Ethical Considerations

Anna emphasizes the ethical responsibility of portraying true crime stories, highlighting her decision to not financially benefit from the film to honor the victims and their families. She also discusses the importance of addressing law enforcement negligence and the emotional toll it takes on those striving for justice.

Anna Kendrick [37:26]: "I think that this was never a money-making venture for me. All the resources went to actually just making the movie. The money is going to or has gone to rain and to the national center for Victims of Violent Crime."

---

Personal Experiences and Storytelling

Drawing from her own experiences, Anna relates to the themes of fear, vulnerability, and resilience portrayed in "Woman of the Hour." She shares anecdotes from her past, such as encountering unsettling situations in New York and Los Angeles, which inform her empathetic approach to storytelling.

Anna Kendrick [26:22]: "So, yeah, these stories often happen to us. And if we can pick up all the tips and tricks, maybe I'm like this much, like, less."

---

Impact and Reception

Anna discusses the reception of "Woman of the Hour," particularly its premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival (TIFF) and its acquisition by Netflix. She expresses pride in the film's ability to convey emotional truths and safety tips that could potentially save lives.

Anna Kendrick [20:27]: "There are things in the movie that frankly feel like they could save a life. I was watching that other Netflix show, Worst X Ever, and I was literally like, oh, my God, no, do what Monique Hoyt did."

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Anna reflects on the importance of addressing true crime ethically and the personal growth she experienced through directing "Woman of the Hour." She encourages listeners to watch the film and engage with the broader conversation about victim support and justice.

Anna Kendrick [55:54]: "These are crime junkies. They're like, no disclaimer needed. You guys, this is made for you. You're gonna love it."

---

Key Takeaways:

• Anna Kendrick's Directorial Debut: "Woman of the Hour" focuses on the emotional impact of Rodney Alcala's crimes on his victims.
• Personal Transformation: Anna's experiences with trauma deepened her engagement with true crime narratives.
• Ethical Storytelling: Commitment to honoring victims led to Anna's decision to donate profits to victims' charities.
• Production Challenges: Navigating a first-time directing role under tight schedules and limited budgets.
• Emotional Authenticity: Striving to portray the nuanced fears and resilience of victims authentically.

For those interested in exploring the intricate details of real-life crime stories through the lens of a compassionate and dedicated filmmaker, this episode offers valuable insights and a compelling invitation to watch "Woman of the Hour."

Transcript

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi everyone, it's Ashley Flowers. If you can't get enough true crime, trust me, you're not alone. I recently had a chance to sit down with Anna Kendrick to talk about her directorial debut, Woman of the Hour, which is her new movie about the chilling true story of the Dating Game killer. We also go into how Anna went from being a casual true crime fan to someone who loves getting deep into the details and how personal experience experiences can shape our empathy for these real life cases. You can catch our full conversation in the Crime Junkie feed by listening to the episode Anna Kendrick is cjaf. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amica Insurance]

At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than just a house. It's your home. The place that's filled with memories. The early days of figuring it out to the later years of still figuring.

[Anna Kendrick]

It out.

[Amica Insurance]

For the place you've put down roots. Trust Amica Home Insurance. Amica Empathy is our best policy.

[Crime Junkie Merch]

Happy Holidays, Crime Junkies if you're searching for the perfect gift for the Crime Junkie in your life, or looking to add something to your own wishlist, we've got you covered with this season's Crime Junkie Merch Store. The Crime Junkie Merch Store is open right now, so whether you're looking for a cozy crewneck, a new favorite T shirt, a classic hoodie, or some fun stocking stuffers, you'll find the perfect thing in our latest merch drop. The Crime Junkie Merch Store is only open for a limited time, so don't wait. Head to crimejunkiepodcast.com to get your favorites today.

[Anna Kendrick]

Hi Crime Junkies. Surprise, surprise. A little extra Ashley Flowers in your feed today, but I'm coming to you for a very special reason. I recently got the opportunity to interview.

[Ashley Flowers]

Anna Kendrick about her new movie on Netflix, Woman of the Hour.

[Anna Kendrick]

I'll tell you right up front, you guys, 10 out of 10 highly recommend. Now, our interview was originally for my SiriusXM show Crime Junkie AF, which if.

[Ashley Flowers]

You didn't know, you can find in.

[Anna Kendrick]

The SiriusXM app or in the Crime Junkie fan club. But this interview was just too good. It was like so right up your alley that I begged Sirius XM to let me share it with all of you. Because it turns out Anna Kendrick is just like us.

[Ashley Flowers]

Because along with talking about Woman of.

[Anna Kendrick]

The Hour, which by the way, is her directorial debut, we also talked about her personal experiences, what led her to this story, and her interest in true.

[Ashley Flowers]

Crime as a whole.

[Anna Kendrick]

So whether you're an OG Crime Junkie or you just found us because you're a fan of Anna, this conversation is.

[Ashley Flowers]

One that you don't want to miss.

[Anna Kendrick]

And if you're here because you're an.

[Ashley Flowers]

Anna Kendrick fan, hi. Me too. And welcome to your ultimate true crime destination, where you can hear the true.

[Anna Kendrick]

Story behind Woman of the Hour and.

[Ashley Flowers]

The stories behind hundreds of other true crime cases.

[Anna Kendrick]

So take a listen right here, right now, or if you want, you can.

[Ashley Flowers]

Catch a video version of this conversation on the Crime Junkie YouTube channel. And after you listen to this interview, don't forget to listen to the episode.

[Anna Kendrick]

Of Crime Junkie titled Serial killer Rodney Alcala. To hear the details of the case.

[Ashley Flowers]

Behind Anna Kendrick's Woman of the Hour. I'm gonna link to it right in.

[Anna Kendrick]

The show notes for you. I promise you'll love it, but you're gonna love this too.

[Ashley Flowers]

Enjoy Crime Junkie af.

[Anna Kendrick]

Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm Ashley Flowers, and if you're watching this, you'll notice I'm not in my normal place. I'm in a very special place with a very special guest. Most of you will recognize her from her work. She's multitalented in many ways, from being an Oscar and Tony nominated actress to an author singer songw. And you are now starring in Netflix's Woman of the Hour. And it is your directorial debut, Anna Kendrick. You guys. And for my daughter, who was giving me a guilt trip before I left, she would think I was so cool that I was meeting Poppy.

[Crime Junkie Merch]

Oh.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, my God, I love that.

[Anna Kendrick]

How old is she? Oh, she's two and a half. So you.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, okay. So this is a tricky age because when parents are like, oh, my gosh, look, it's Poppy. And they introduce a child to, oh.

[Anna Kendrick]

It'S such a bummer.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's like floods of tears immediately because I don't have pink skin and pink hair. What a bummer. They're like, that's not Bobby.

[Anna Kendrick]

I'm just gonna let her listen. She's gonna be thrilled.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, great. Great, great, great.

[Anna Kendrick]

So I'm so excited. First of all, Women of the Hour was incredible. I got a little sneak peek.

[Unnamed Guest]

Thank you so much.

[Anna Kendrick]

I truly loved it. Start to finish.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, I feel like a loser fangirl in my merch right now.

[Anna Kendrick]

I know. In your crime junk.

[Unnamed Guest]

But it's such cute merch. Like, I get a lot of merch and it's usually like, oh, you ruined a perfectly good shirt. This is so good. This is so cool. Anyway, sorry, go ahead.

[Anna Kendrick]

Thank you. Well, so, yeah, speaking of being a crime junkie. Like, how did you get to this place? Because this is a little bit of a departure. You've done some serious stuff. But, I mean, this is serious in a serious way.

[Unnamed Guest]

No, I was like, I don't even think I've ever been in a movie that was this genre or this kind of intense of a movie.

[Anna Kendrick]

Because the thriller stuff that you've done has still been kind of lighthearted.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah, yeah. And I am very aware that most people know me from one of a couple of lighthearted musical franchises. So. Poppy. Yeah, poppy. Or. Or Pitch Perfect or whatever. And so, yeah, I even got some. Not pushback, but my friends were questioning the decision. Like, I sent a filmmaker friend the script, and I was like, do you think this is crazy for me to do? I was mostly thinking about, hey, here's the story. Here's the very limited budget and timeframe that we have, and I would be jumping on to this movie. I'd be pitching myself to direct this movie. And it starts in six weeks. So do you think that's just a terrible idea and I'm just setting myself up for failure? And, you know, he was like, well, I. It's a lot. But mostly he was like, I confess I've been hoping you would direct something for a long time, and I'm surprised that it's this, really. And he was like, I think, you know, once I got it further into the script, I could see a lot of themes around moving through the world as a woman and trying to stay safe that make sense to me. But, you know, he was really kind of referencing the opening scene of the movie, which is dark, which is interesting, because I love that scene. And I fought for that scene, which.

[Anna Kendrick]

I heard, which I'm so glad that you did, because I can see why many people would want to remove it, but I think it takes away from what the story is.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah, yeah. And don't get me wrong, I understood why he was going this, because, again, it's not really what I'm known for, and it's not the kinds of film sets that I've been on a lot. But, you know, I think that even my relationship to true crime really changed a few years ago because I went through something really shocking and traumatic for me, and I really couldn't figure out what had happened. And, you know, I don't know if you relate to this, but I'm sure many listeners will, that you really beat yourself up and go, like, how did I not see? Like, how did I not know that that was Coming. How did I not get myself out of that situation sooner? You know, all the ways that we really put all that shame on ourselves. And I told him. I was like, I know that this isn't necessarily in my professional wheelhouse, but this unfortunately feels like familiar territory to me. And that question of whose shame is this? How much of your shame do I have to absorb here before I'm in harm's way? I think that question hangs over a lot of our lives more often than we realize. And that felt central to the kind of emotional center of the story. And I've always been kind of. I don't know, I guess maybe I would consider myself to have been a more casual consumer of true crime. And then when, you know, some things went down in a long term relationship that I was in, I really, I really got kind of obsessed. And I think that there's a way in which we can kind of sublimate our own stuff by feeling like if I can just get to the bottom of why that guy or that person did that thing, maybe I could uncover some universal human truth and I could make sure that I never found myself in a situation like that again. And I don't know how true that is, but it really changed how I consumed true crime. But at any rate, you know, the subject matter of the movie is, like, really gripping. But I also hoped to be bringing in some of that emotional DNA to the entire movie, which you did a great job of.

[Anna Kendrick]

You said it's outside of your wheelhouse, but, girl, it is not outside of your wheelhouse. You did incredible.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, that's so awesome.

[Anna Kendrick]

And I feel like I just like my crime junkie brain just, like jumped right in. But do you actually, for those who don't know what Women of the Hour is about, yes, of course.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, my gosh.

[Anna Kendrick]

Do you want to tell them, like, what the story is based on?

[Unnamed Guest]

Yes. So it's funny, on other outlets, I'm sort of more vague, but I guess I'm right in.

[Anna Kendrick]

I was like, obviously we're talking about Rodney Alcala. Like, welcome to the show. Yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

So it is based on the story of Rodney Alcala, who was a serial killer in the 1970s. And in the middle of really being able to operate without consequence for over a decade, he went on the show the Dating Game and won the Dating Game. And so that piece of, you know, the story, that Dating Game piece is really used, you know, as a kind of framing device for the movie because it's really evocative of that question of, like, who can you trust and who's really behind the curtain. You know, how much can you really know about a person before you know that you're safe?

[Anna Kendrick]

We have a crime junkie life rule that you never know anyone ever, like, truly, girl.

[Unnamed Guest]

Tell me about it. And yeah, I mean, I sort of describe it as the story of Rodney Alcala, but it is really meant to be the story of the impact that he had on the people that were unfortunate enough to come across him. So the aim was always to really center the women's stories. The women's stories, yeah.

[Anna Kendrick]

And I think you did a really amazing job of that. And you had this. The scene like, I was like crawling out of my skin when you. The scene where you're like actually on the date with him and you're walking to the car and it's the whole number scene where he's like, tell me your number again. Like, why can't you remember? And I was. I was just. My husband, like, didn't quite get why I was freaking out so much.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's so interesting.

[Anna Kendrick]

Oh, he and I talk about this all the time. And the way you were talking about earlier, I'm like, you, Eric, you. He's this like six foot six dude. And I'm like, you move in the world a way that, like, I cannot and you cannot. I appreciate that you empathize with being a woman, but you have no idea what it feels like that when I'm going on a walk, I'm not enjoying the walk because I'm constantly looking here and looking there and that car passed me twice and here's the license plate number and it's just completely different. But the way that I thought you did so well in capturing just the uncomfortable position I think nearly every woman has probably been in at some point where it's like, I don't feel safe, I don't feel good. Why. But you don't also don't feel comfortable saying that.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yes. And you're not totally sure if you're making it up. Like, oh, maybe I'm just being paranoid. And the way that we kind of second guess ourselves and try to just sort of like, be pleasing. And I'll just get myself out of this situation. God, that's so interesting because there are several moments in the movie that while we were shooting, one of the men on set would sort of say, like, hey, should we do another take of that? Like, I don't know that it's super clear, like, what's happening in this scene. And I would sort of be like, well, Women are gonna know what's happening. They're gonna get in this scene. And I think most. And I think most men will follow what's happening in the movie. But if there's a story, if there's like 20% of men who don't follow what's happening, that's fine with me. You know, I would much rather the lesson.

[Anna Kendrick]

It probably isn't for them.

[Unnamed Guest]

Exactly.

[Anna Kendrick]

Don't be the creepy man. That's your own lesson.

[Unnamed Guest]

And it feels like there's this kind of secret LA of women, and part of that is it's a fucking secret.

[Anna Kendrick]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

So, wait, am I allowed to curse?

[Anna Kendrick]

Oh, yeah, for sure. It's serious, right?

[Unnamed Guest]

Like, fuck.

[Anna Kendrick]

I don't know.

[Unnamed Guest]

So, you know, sometimes that means that maybe it won't be 1000% clear to some men, like, what the dynamics are at play. But I think it's very, very clear to women.

[Anna Kendrick]

But I think that's, like, the beautiful part about you having stepped in the role as director is having a woman be the lens through this story and telling it from your perspective and being able to hone in on those nuances that I don't know, that someone else would have captured. And I just thought you did it in such a truly incredible way.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, my gosh, that's so nice. That's the nicest thing.

[Anna Kendrick]

So how did you decide that you wanted to direct something? Because this is your first.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah.

[Anna Kendrick]

I mean, you came out with a banger.

[Unnamed Guest]

But, I mean, I always feel a little embarrassed saying this, but I think I had told myself. I mean, certainly I told everyone around me, and I had told myself I just wasn't interested in directing because I think that it's vulnerable to want something and, you know, you might not get it or you might get it and you might fail. And so I just was constantly telling myself, like, oh, I don't know. God, directors are crazy. I'm not doing that. And I really found myself getting kind of obsessed with this script and maybe getting a little controlling, you know? Cause I was attached as an actor for about two years, and I was just sort of like, okay, let me know when the movie goes.

[Anna Kendrick]

Two years?

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, God, that's so common. Yeah. Like, you just sort of, like, attach yourself to things and you're like, well, let me know if it comes together wild. And. And then the other thing that happens is occasionally something that's been moving really, really slow for a long time will, out of nowhere, very quickly be coming together at lightning speed and basically going, okay, well, we got the money together. And we have a window that we could shoot it in. And if we don't, if we miss that window, it might fall apart again. And at that point we didn't have a director and so we kind of scrambled and we were trying to find someone and we certainly weren't looking at first time directors. It was like, well, we have $3 and a roll of duct tape and it needs to happen right now. So we were really mostly trying to find like pretty experienced people. And I guess I. Oh, God, I feel weird saying this, but I think that I also started to feel like, wait, I'm sorry. I've been thinking about this movie for two years and someone's better than you and like, what the movie is. And I'm gonna be like, you just got here. And you know, there were also certain details from the True Story that felt really important to me. And I had always thought, like, well, if it were my movie, this is how I would do it. But it's not my movie. That's okay. And you know, very quickly I got to do like a new draft with the screenwriter and make some changes. And I just.

[Anna Kendrick]

Was it a hard conversation being like, I want it?

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, it was terrifying. Oh my God. I mean, I think like, even in the pitch that I did, I kept saying, like, if you guys don't think I'm the right person, that's so fine. It's totally fine. I just want to do what's best for the movie. It's okay. Like if you don't think I'm ready, I love that.

[Anna Kendrick]

Please tell me what people think a girl boss is like just coming in and owning the room. And what being a girl boss is really, that is just being like, listen.

[Unnamed Guest]

I'm like, listen, here's the deal. Here's what I bring to the table. Here's me. I was even going like, here's what I think I bring to the table. Well, here are the areas of deficit that I have. I wanna be honest. Why project false confidence? Because then I was like, well, also if you hire me, it means you have to support me. Cause I was honest, you know, I love it. Yeah.

[Anna Kendrick]

So how did the story find you originally?

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, okay, so it originally found me because the script just got sent to me and I had that moment that maybe a lot of the listeners have where you go, oh, right, this guy, he was. Yeah, he was a serial killer. And he went on the Dating Game. And that's like mostly what you remember or what you know about it. And you know, obviously that is a fascinating true crime story. So I was interested from the get go. And then when I read the screenplay, it was just. It was really beautiful. I know that feels like a strange thing to say, but there was so much beauty in the world of these women. And you really fell in love with them in, you know, a very limited window, really. You know, I mean, some of the actresses in the film, they have a very limited window of screen time to make you fall in love with them and be absolutely invested in what is gonna happen to them. And I'm just blown away by the writing and by the actresses in the film. Cause you are so desperate for each one of them to come out of it on the other side. And, you know, the movie is, like, chilling, but it's heartbreaking too.

[Anna Kendrick]

There's one scene in particular when you talk about them having such a short time to make an impact where this girl's, like, unpacking her new apartment. And I remember, like, just feeling so much like. God, I remember being like, you know, in my very first place. And you're in a new city and you feel like such a. Like a big kid with your whole life in front of you. And I remember that just being, like, the emotion as I was watching that and being like, oh, God. So even in, like, you just get, like, a brief moment with each of those women, and it was just done so well.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. And, you know, I'm sure that the listeners are very, very into as they should be. Like, the details and accuracy, factual accuracy. And there are so many details in the movie that are lifted straight from the true story. But, you know, just the way you're talking, even about that with the apartment, you know, it just reminds me that part of the objective was also to give each woman that we meet, like, quite a different personality and quite a different kind of entry point to how they meet this man, how they interact with this man. Because, again, like, emotionally, it felt important to kind of establish it wouldn't matter what your personality is and how you meet a person or how careful you are or how sweet you are or how tough you try to seem. Like none of that guarantees your protection from someone if they're determined to harm you.

[Anna Kendrick]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

And even though there. I think there are really, really interesting things in the movie around the ways that some of these women manage to survive, it also feels like an exercise in at least putting the shame where it belongs, which is in the hands of a person who's harmful. And never. I remember actually, at one point, oh, my God, I forgot about this. Oh, this is maybe a little spoilery. But also, we covered the episode. I know the story that, you know, I play the bachelorette who's on the Dating Game, and so I survive. And I remember at one point, one of the producers asking me if my character should have, like, some kind of really clever plan that got her out of danger. And I was like, you know, in most movies, I would say, sure, blind luck isn't a great way for your heroine to kind of, you know, survive a situation, but it would also feel like a disservice to all the really brilliant women who didn't survive. You know, sometimes it is just blind luck.

[Anna Kendrick]

Well, and the truth of it is, he did go for so long and he was successful at taking the lives of so many different women that to say, oh, like this person to your.

[Unnamed Guest]

Point where she just needed to outsmart him.

[Anna Kendrick]

Yeah, it's the one person in the parking lot who just scares him away. And you're like, and you just. Thank you lucky stars. Like, why me and not the other person?

[Unnamed Guest]

Completely. Completely. It's wild.

[Amica Insurance]

Every day our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Anna Kendrick]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Unnamed Guest]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Anna Kendrick]

Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.

[Amica Insurance]

At Amika, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Amica empathy is our best policy.

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi, crime junkies. It's Ashley here to tell you about a case with details that are unfolding right now. In November 2002, 61 year old Nathaniel Jones was found face down, hands bound, having been brutally attacked outside his home. Being a well known and beloved figure in his community, his murder shot shocked everyone. And solid leads came in quickly to investigators. Within days, five teenage boys were arrested. They all confessed, and there was even a star witness. The case seemed open and shut, but it wasn't. In this season of Counterclock, investigative journalist Delia Diambra dives into how for over 20 years, these young men have maintained their innocence and how now the one witness who helped put them behind bars is saying they're innocent. So was justice really served? Or is there much, much more to this story? This season of Counterclock will take you places no one expected. Listen to Counterclock now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anna Kendrick]

So you said that your true crime fascination, you had been into it before, but always like, like for me, I always say, like, crime junkies are born not made like I. Since I was little. Like, when did it start for you?

[Unnamed Guest]

Gosh, yeah, I guess I can't really remember a to that. It wasn't there. I mean, you know, this isn't really true crime per se, but I remember sitting in like the dentist's office and they would have those books about like natural disasters or the Titanic or something. Like there is just something about the Grimm and the Macabre that has always kind of called to me. And so, yeah, that's always sort of been there, lurking and then it, you know, ended up being something else for me.

[Anna Kendrick]

You wrote in your book about you being in New York for the first time, which like when you were like a kid and I am like you were like toeing the line. You were about to be your own true crime story. Like running around the city of New York like you were like what, 10?

[Unnamed Guest]

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. Like my. Yeah, my parents. Cause I was a stubborn little child and I was like, I wanna be an actress and I wanna audition for Broadway shows. And you know, they worked full time jobs and so they drove me to New York for a couple auditions and then we're like, girl, if you really wanna do this, you need to figure it out. So my brother and I, he was like two years older than me. He and I would go down on a Greyhound bus and like just audition for stuff in New York City, which. Yeah, I don't know. There is an overconfidence and a trust there that I think also comes from growing up in a place where I grew up in Maine and no one locked their doors at night. When I moved to la. God, I really am like a walking true crime. This is awful. No, when I moved to la, my roommates were constantly having to remind me to lock. Girl, I just wouldn't lock the door. Just wide. Yeah, just wide open. Cause also in Maine, if you lock your car door at night, it'll freeze over. So like we don't lock anything, girl.

[Anna Kendrick]

I mean I lived in like in Indiana and it's not wild out there.

[Unnamed Guest]

But like, I know that's crazy.

[Anna Kendrick]

We had ice.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's really crazy.

[Anna Kendrick]

It's crazy. But I think about that all the time when you're like. To go back to what we were just talking about. Like, I remember I went to Vegas when I was like 22 and like me and my roommate just like, we like didn't wanna pay for a cab, so we like caught a ride with a guy who had a Hook for a hand. And I'm like, oh, my God.

[Unnamed Guest]

You're not just true crime. You're like a creepy ghost story. That's like a classic campfire ghost story.

[Anna Kendrick]

I don't know. But, yeah, I'm, like, walking down alleys, and it's like, the stuff that. It truly is luck sometimes.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's right.

[Anna Kendrick]

It's truly just luck that saves you. It's a miracle we're both here today.

[Unnamed Guest]

No, completely. That's absolutely right.

[Anna Kendrick]

So how did you. Were there certain things that you pulled from your own life? Like situations you've been in where you felt like that or, like, how did you even begin to prepare for this character?

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. So, I mean, there are things in the movie that are like, there's a couple little Easter eggs. But, you know, for example, my character. There's that scene in the opening when we first meet my character where I'm having, like, a very bad audition. Oh, my God, I love it. The casting directors are. Yeah. And they were so funny. They were so wonderful on the day. And while we were shooting it, I was like, hey, will you guys do this? Like, will you just say these couple lines with me? I'm probably gonna cut it, but I don't know, it might be interesting where they ask me if I'm willing to do nudity, and then this guy makes a very, like, very specific and weird remark about my body. And that happened to me verbatim when I was 19.

[Anna Kendrick]

No.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yes, verbatim in an audition. Yeah. Crazy. Absolutely crazy. So there's also a degree to which.

[Anna Kendrick]

I want the version on Netflix where it pops up be, like, actually happened.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. Ye. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. No, but, like, there's also a degree to which I really had fun making a period piece and, like, you know, playing up the kind of 70s of it all. But also, like, some of this stuff happened not that long ago. You know, like, some of the little, like, juicy little tidbits where you think, well, no one would say that now. And I know, you know, 19 was not recent for me, but, yeah, it was not, like, relegated to the 1970s to the 70s.

[Anna Kendrick]

Like, it was fun five minutes ago. Holy crap.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. There's also. Like, this is dumb, but there's a sign that's on the door when I'm about to go out on stage that says, like, check your lipstick and that. Like, that's backstage it at talk shows. That stuff of, like, last chance to check your makeup. That's, like, written under the mirror. That's right before you go out into, like, live tv. So, yeah, just, like, a bunch of little Easter eggs like, that I love.

[Anna Kendrick]

Like, how do people know that, though? Like, if they don't know? Like, this is all the insider baseball I want to know.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, I guess, like, you know, you mostly get away with it by not saying it, but now I'm saying it on a big Picasso.

[Anna Kendrick]

I'm obsessed.

[Unnamed Guest]

What are you going to do?

[Anna Kendrick]

What are you going to do? I'm obsessed.

[Unnamed Guest]

Stay mad.

[Anna Kendrick]

So how do you. When you think about being in something like this for. Was it really six weeks? Like, yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, yeah. So bad. I mean, I was, like, thinking about the character for two years, but then, like, was, oh, God, I'm responsible for all of it for, like, six weeks. And then you have about six weeks of hard prep, so you're finding the locations and actually really mapping out the movie. And then we filmed for 24 days, which is not enough time.

[Anna Kendrick]

Oh, my God. You did that whole thing in 24 days?

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[Anna Kendrick]

That's intense.

[Unnamed Guest]

It was a lot. It was a lot. It makes me hot just thinking about how much we were running around.

[Anna Kendrick]

Is that normal?

[Unnamed Guest]

No, no. Oh, my God, no. I mean, it's normal for, like, teeny movies that take place in one location.

[Anna Kendrick]

Wow.

[Unnamed Guest]

But, yeah, it was a lot. But I also. I think I am, like, maybe a little bit of an adrenaline junkie, because I would. I was like, oh, my favorite animal is me when I'm. When the schedule is slightly behind, where, like, the way that, like, I get a weird rush of dopamine where I'm like, we're gonna. We're gonna finish this day. We're gonna get every shot that we need on this day. God damn it. So it's, like, very exciting.

[Anna Kendrick]

How did you think about coming off that? And, like. But. And more specifically, like, even out of the space, like. Cause you're kind of living in, like, a dark world for a while.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah.

[Anna Kendrick]

Do you take a break from it? Do you have, like, a true crime detox, or are you ready to, like, jump back into the next true crime project?

[Unnamed Guest]

God. I think that, you know, like, when I would go home for the day, I would probably just put something, like, mindless on YouTube, like, something, like, upbeat or something.

[Anna Kendrick]

What's your mindless. What is your guilty pleasure right now?

[Unnamed Guest]

This is very silly, but I think that at the time that we were filming the movie, I didn't know of the Try guys, but when we were filming the movie, the Try guys had, like, a infidelity scandal thing. They're like, YouTubers. I was like, what's the try, guys? Well, that was my point. And so I was like, wait, what is this? And I, like, watched a couple videos and I was like, I don't get it. But then I started watching it and it was like, okay, this is fine. This is just, like, guys being silly. And, I don't know, one of them cheated on their wife, so fuck that guy. But, you know, I don't know, whatever. So I would just, like, put that on as background noise to fall asleep to.

[Anna Kendrick]

The try guys are putting you to sleep at night.

[Unnamed Guest]

I know, I know.

[Anna Kendrick]

I love it.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's like the most random rabbit hole to just be like, fine, this. Cause I can't even think about, like, finding, like, oh, what's my nighttime, you know, comfort show? I was like, this. This is it. I don't have that.

[Anna Kendrick]

I know a lot of people, they say it is, like a comfort thing to watch the same thing over and over again. It drives me nuts.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, really?

[Anna Kendrick]

I can't watch the same thing over.

[Unnamed Guest]

Not even, like, the Office? You don't have a show like that? That you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll just throw it on.

[Anna Kendrick]

No, I mean, I think I'm broken. I don't. I don't know. Like, everyone's like, yeah, I've just got my. I don't.

[Unnamed Guest]

Wait, do you watch any movies, like, more than once? Cause Rebel Wilson has this thing. She has never seen a movie more than once. Never. Not once. She says her favorite movie is A League of Their Own, and she has seen it twice in her life. That's her favorite movie. That's crazy.

[Anna Kendrick]

I think I've seen maybe some movies. Well, daughter's movies aside, I've seen movies I like Tops Two Times. I cannot rewatch. Like, I know what's gonna happen. There's no.

[Unnamed Guest]

Someone needs to study your brain and Rebel Wilson's brain and figure out what's happening there. Cause honestly, I kind of wish I was more like that. Like, I wish I was more like, yeah, I'd wanna watch something new. Something new. And then there's just, like, a laziness thing where you're like, oh, whatever. I'll just.

[Anna Kendrick]

I've heard it's like a comfort thing. Like, you know what to expect. Like, in a world where everything's crazy and you got a zillion things coming at you. Like, the comfort of, like, knowing exactly what's coming next.

[Unnamed Guest]

I guess that's probably it. I don't know. For me, it might just be down the Middle laziness. Cause I'm like, I just can't think of anything else to watch, so I'll just rewatch 30 Rock. Fine. Oh, I love their. I know. It's so good.

[Anna Kendrick]

Okay, that's fair. I'm, like, very into. I always said I was not a reality TV person, but I'm doing the love is blind thing right now.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's so good.

[Anna Kendrick]

Are you watching this season?

[Unnamed Guest]

Okay. I just started it.

[Anna Kendrick]

Oh, my God.

[Unnamed Guest]

I'm like. I think I'm. I got to, like, the first reveal. The, like, Taylor and what's his face? I don't know. Whatever.

[Anna Kendrick]

Oh, don't.

[Unnamed Guest]

No.

[Anna Kendrick]

You have a ride ahead of you.

[Unnamed Guest]

I should look at your facial expression. Cause it's gonna get reversed.

[Anna Kendrick]

I was literally like. I was text Kate nonstop. I was like. I felt like I was like live tweeting love is blind, but only to her.

[Unnamed Guest]

Totally. You gotta have that friend, though, to be like, I'm gonna watch this thing, and you have to watch this thing so that we can text about it.

[Anna Kendrick]

Oh, I love it. So do you think you'll do another true crime thing?

[Unnamed Guest]

I mean, I would be really, really open to it. I think that it's really fertile ground psychologically. So I don't know. Well, as I'm saying it, I'm also like. I've been known as, like, musical Sally for the last decade. So it's done you wrong. It certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for me to be like, oh, no. Oh, no. I'm pigeonholed as, like, the murder girl. That would be fine with me.

[Anna Kendrick]

Cause I think at this point, you can't be pigeonholed. I think this whole thing, you, like, prove that you can do whatever you want, which is, like, the best place to be.

[Unnamed Guest]

I wouldn't mind. I mean, I. I really found it rewarding to dig in to the case. I was really, really fortunate to have Matt Murphy, who was the Prosecutor in Rodney's 2010 retrial, as a resource. He was so generous. We did not have the money to pay him, so he was not getting paid. He really made himself available, and not just as a kind of factual resource, which he often was, but there were times where just speaking to him was so emotionally grounding, because, again, he's someone who really obviously prioritizes victims first. And even just speaking to him would kind of sometimes really recenter me on what was important about telling the story. And Matt introduced me to Detective, well now the honorable Craig Robison. But at the time, Detective Craig Robison, who, I mean, was the guy who cared enough about what was happening to actually take it seriously. Because as I'm sure you know, as I know you know, really, the story of Rodney Alcala is a story of law enforcement negligence and incompetence. And it makes my body temperature go up every I even think about it. Like, it. It like really, really makes me so upset. And I think even speaking to Craig Robeson and Matt Murphy, it was kind of illuminating for me because, I mean, you think about, okay, a serial killer who's been operating for over a decade. This young detective comes on the scene and kind of saves the day, and the prosecutor that keeps him behind bars and connects all the dots and, you know, realizes that he's a serial murderer. It's kind of like a ready made Hollywood story. But we don't really get into that in the movie because it would also feel really emotionally dishonest. Because when I walk away from months of research about this case, the feeling that I'm left with is heartbreak and rage, really. Rage.

[Anna Kendrick]

So they got to be the heroes. They were the heroes.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yes.

[Unnamed Guest]

And they were.

[Anna Kendrick]

And that matters, but because so many people failed before them.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's right. And they're just as angry about that as anybody.

[Anna Kendrick]

And that's where, like, I'll always say, I mean, there's the really good ones can recognize and acknowledge when there are bad ones.

[Unnamed Guest]

And I even had a moment where I was like, oh, no. Like, Matt has really been so helpful to me and I am not sure that he knows that, like, the movie is not pro law enforcement. And I was like, oh, my God. Oh my God. Is that gonna, like, bother him or hurt his feelings or is he gonna be angry? And then, I mean, he just put out a book and actually one of the chapters is about Rodney. And. Yeah, and he's actually going off more about law enforcement than I am in the movie. So. Yeah, we can appreciate that for sure.

[Anna Kendrick]

I love it. And you said Matt didn't make any money, but like, I was surprised to learn you didn't make any money on this either.

[Unnamed Guest]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, you know, I think that, you know, we're both sort of steeped in some really valid ethical questions around true crime. And I, believe me, this was never a money making venture for me. Cause, you know, all the resources went to actually just making the movie. But it wasn't until the Toronto Film Festival is where the movie premiered. And it's this big film festival for someone to buy movies. And that is where, you know, eventually Netflix bought the movie, but it wasn't until, like, the week before Tiff that I thought, oh, oh, the movie's gonna make money. Like, I was just so, like, in it and just, like, pounding your pennies from, like, let me know when the movie happens to, like, oh, God, I'm responsible for this. And then I was just making the movie, making the movie, and we just barely made the deadline to get into Tiff, and then it was, oh, oh, there's, like, money gonna be exchanging hands. And, yeah, like, I sort of asked myself the question of, like, do you feel gross about this? And I did. And so, yeah, so I'm not making money off of the movie. The money is going to or has gone to rain and to the national center for Victims of Violent Crime, which was a charity that Matt Murphy recommended to me.

[Anna Kendrick]

And we've done work with both of them. They're like, both incredible organizations. I was gonna ask you, like, how you got connected with them, but that's perfect.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that there. It's still a complicated area, but that. Yeah, that felt like certainly, like, the least that I should do.

[Anna Kendrick]

Well, it's a huge thing to do. And it's like, it's a weird place to navigate. And, like, I mean, as someone who's, like, still trying to fig. I think that I think these stories have to be told, and I think that there's probably a better way than it's been done in the past.

[Unnamed Guest]

Right?

[Anna Kendrick]

And it's like, how do we do right by the people who are in them? How do we. There's a lot of heavy questions that I don't know. It's not black and white. Ethics is never black and white. It's a little gray and it's.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah. And, you know, again, like, when I've shown the movie to friends, there are immediately, like, a handful of questions that they wanna know. Like, wait, wait, wait. Did that really happen? Did that really happen? Like, you know, one of the ones that comes up a lot is like, wait, was he really working at the Los Angeles times in, like, 1977? And you're like, yep, with his real name. Yep, with his real name. Like, he'd been in jail for horrible crimes already at that point. And they constantly let him really. Based on vibes, by the way. Cause witchboards were just like. Yeah. I don't know. He seems chill. I think he's reformed.

[Anna Kendrick]

Unbelievable men.

[Unnamed Guest]

And then, yeah, he, like, you know, he changed his name in New York for a while, but then he, like, got a job at the Los Angeles Times under his real name. So, yeah, so the point being, there's certain things that are like, oh my God, did that actually happen? And then, yeah, there's a degree to which I, you know, the names of a lot of the sort of players in the movie are changed as kind of a nod to the idea that, like, I couldn't possibly capture the essence of a real person if I had a hundred years, let alone a 90 minute movie. And, you know, as always, the idea was mostly to be trying to reach a kind of larger emotional truth about the danger that we walk around with and all the ways we try to stay safe. And there are things in the movie that frankly feel like they could save a life. You know, I was watching that other Netflix show, Worst X Ever, and I was literally like, oh, my God, no, do what Monique Hoyt did. Like, please, please. And she survived. She's okay. The lady. I was yelling at the TV as though I could like, crawl through the screen and back through time to, oh, my God. It's just, ugh, it's so stressful. But I think there are, like these tidbits that we get from these stories that remain in our subconscious and can aid us in our most challenging moments.

[Anna Kendrick]

I think it's, you know, you had talked about earlier trying to like, understand and can I, you know, can I gather all these tools to protect myself? And I've always viewed it as. I think I read it in like Tina Fey's book. She was talking about if I can be so hyper vigilant, like, surely statistically it just won't happen to me, like, if I'm always on the way. And I think that's a little bit of like, the way that I have viewed it. The way I know a lot of our listeners view it is these stories often happen to us. And so if we can, you know, and it's not the shame and it's not them, but it's like, unfortunately, I live in this world where I have to, you know, hold the keys a certain way and check in my backseat and look here and do all the things. And if I can pick up all the tips and tricks, maybe I'm like this much, like, less.

[Unnamed Guest]

If I'll just, I'll take that 2%, even if it's only 2%. Because the hyper vigilant thing is fascinating because again, I think the case that really captured me when I was coming out of this really abusive situation was the Chris Watts case.

[Anna Kendrick]

You don't get me started on Family Annihilators I. Oh my God. I'm about to like, it's like my life dream to like just fund a study at some university because I cannot wrap my head and I feel like not nearly enough has been done to understand like how someone goes and it's not zero to 60. It's not, but it feels like it.

[Amica Insurance]

At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than just a house. It's your home. The place that's filled with memories. The early days of figuring it out to the later years of still figuring.

[Anna Kendrick]

It out.

[Amica Insurance]

For the place you've put down roots. Trust Amica Home Insurance. Amica empathy is our best policy.

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi crime junkies, It's Ashley here to tell you about a case with details that are unfolding right now. In November 2002, 61 year old Nathaniel Jones was found found face down, hands bound, having been brutally attacked outside his home. Being a well known and beloved figure in his community, his murder shocked everyone. And solid leads came in quickly to investigators. Within days, five teenage boys were arrested.

[Anna Kendrick]

They all confessed.

[Ashley Flowers]

And there was even a star witness. The case seemed open and shut, but it wasn't. In this season of Counterclock, Investigative journalist Delia D'Ambrough dives into how for over over 20 years these young men have maintained their innocence and how now the one witness who helped put them behind bars is saying they're innocent too. So was justice really served or is there much, much more to this story? This season of Counterclock will take you places no one expected. Listen to Counterclock now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unnamed Guest]

I mean, yeah, unfortunately I could sit here and talk about Kris Wats all day, but we'll just very briefly like the more that I try, every transcript I read, every recording, every text message that he ever sent to anybody that's ever been made available to the public. I just, it's frustrating. I mean, obviously it's more than frustrating, it's enraging.

[Anna Kendrick]

But did you get really sucked into that one?

[Unnamed Guest]

It became crazy. I forgot that I actually like forgot that I went from being kind of a casual true crime person to like obsessed. And I was reading an old journal and I mean old. This was again right after I left my abusive relationship. It like coincided with when I learned about the Chris Watts case and I was even aware at the time cause I wrote it down like, oh, I think I'm sublimating my own trauma and just trying to figure out what happened in Chris Watts mind so that I can understand what the fuck happened here. Because how did you go from the most loving, the most wonderful, and to so abusive, making me feel crazy. All these things overnight, like, what happened? And one of the endless frustrating things about the Chris Watts case is I don't think he would be able to give you insight if you put him in therapy for the next 50 years. Like, I just. He is so asleep to himself and his family suffered the consequences of that.

[Anna Kendrick]

Yeah. I think there are certain people who just will put themselves above everyone.

[Unnamed Guest]

But here's the rub. In my opinion, I think that a guy like Chris Watts and a guy like my ex, I think they genuinely experience themselves to be the victims. Like, I agree. I don't think that they're like, ah, screw it, I'm gonna kill my family. I don't care. I think that they're in such a state of like this kind of toddler esque terror that they're just like, no, I just. I'm in a bad situation and I don't wanna feel bad. This feels so bad that I'm allowed to do whatever I have to do because this feeling is so bad and I'm such a victim here.

[Anna Kendrick]

And like, that's.

[Unnamed Guest]

The idea of being caught in an affair makes you feel so bad. Do you think it's the annihilate your family? Like, I. Oh, my God.

[Anna Kendrick]

Do you think it's the idea of being caught or that they're in the way of what he thinks is happiness?

[Unnamed Guest]

I know that there's different theories. Believe me, I know there's different theories about group wives.

[Anna Kendrick]

I believe you've been down the rabbit holes.

[Unnamed Guest]

I don't know. My theory is that it was less like, no, you're standing in the way of what I want and so I'm gonna wipe you off the face of the earth. It was more like, I need to be seen as a good guy. And a guy who leaves his family is not a good guy. But a gu whose family disappears is still a good guy. And I can't be the guy that had an affair on my pregnant wife. That is so intolerable to me. That again, everything that was his. His shame around having an affair, which, by the way, that is an asshole move. But like, so what, dude? You can get, like, so, so, so your wife, so Shanann's friends think you're a dick. So what? She would have gone on to live a beautiful life. It's, oh, my God, your daughter's. And it's all just like, oh, I don't wanna deal with the shame of people knowing that I'M not a good guy, so I'm enacting that. Shame on my family.

[Anna Kendrick]

Is it. Do you think it's a little bit of when you care more about what the world thinks of you than what you think of yourself? Probably because, I mean. Cause I can't imagine, like, I can't imagine having to live with that. Even if everyone thought I was amazing, I couldn't live with myself. But he would rather live with the lie.

[Unnamed Guest]

I mean, I think it's just like, well, I did. I think from somebody like that, from many people who've committed terrible crimes, I think it's possible that their perspective is, I would have been such a victim and almost like I did what I had to do to, quote, survive. But to them, someone thinking that you're kind of a dick who cheated on his wife is akin to annihilation. And I mean, I think that sort of plays out in the movie. Like, Rodney was diagnosed with a number of kind of contradictory disorders over the years by different doctors. Again, I can't know him and I'm not really fucking interested. But I don't know, gun to my head, I'd say just psychopathy and sexual sadism, and that's really just an accident. Right? And statistically we're not that likely to meet an honest to God psychopath. We are incredibly likely to meet people who are emotionally incapable of dealing with their own pain and their own shame and having them enacted on us. And there's some stuff in the movie that feels more like that. And maybe that's not a perfectly accurate representation of his psychology. Again, there's part of me that's like, I couldn't care less. Whatever, dude, you're pathetic. You're rotting in hell. Fine. But that moment of going, oh, you feel like a victim right now, where he's crying. Exactly.

[Ashley Flowers]

Stop it.

[Unnamed Guest]

I feel very scared. And so I know that I need to absorb all this shame for you so that I can actually survive the situation. And I think that that's a situation that women know really well and probably know it on the day to day in much, much smaller ways where it's just like, you go on some trains, you could ruin my day, you could ruin my month. Like, you know, there's a whole storyline with my character and her neighbor and, you know, he kind of pressures me into sex and it sucks. And it's a really weird piece of the story. And yes, of course, for women there is that question of, like, are you gonna physically harm me? But there's also the question of, like, Are you. You can psychologically torture me every time I step out my front door because you're my neighbor. And, like, I don't know, maybe it's easier for me to just go, okay, I guess we'll have sex. And neither version is good. It's all awful. But, like, these are the choices that we're faced with. What's possible?

[Anna Kendrick]

Yeah. What's the one you can live with and live with on a daily basis?

[Unnamed Guest]

And if I stand up in a meeting and say that I think Brian's idea isn't that great, what are the consequences gonna be for me around the office? And, like, making those bargains every day is also part of the fabric of the movie.

[Anna Kendrick]

How did. I don't know. And whatever you are or not comfortable talking about, how did you get out of your relationship? Because I think that's such a. It always is. Like, I think about the takeaways in the movie, but I think you're somebody that people would look at and be like, she's fucking Anna Kendrick. But you got out of a situation and what did it take for you?

[Unnamed Guest]

I wish I had a simple answer. I know. I think that those stories are always, like, really messy and complicated. And, yeah, there were kind of steps along the way, but certainly there was a day that we were having a conversation and, you know, it felt like I was always just trying to kind of, you know, while walking on eggshells, trying to sort of go, like, do you not see what you're doing? You know, like, I just thought, like, surely he's reasonable. Surely he can be reasonable and he can see what's happening, you know, which wasn't gonna happen. But, you know, I was obviously holding onto some hope for a while, but there was a day that I really. I almost did a kind of version of the end sequence of the movie where I just stopped pushing back. And it was almost like I went into. And I know that you've been there, that everyone listening has been there, where it's like, you almost go, okay, at this point, I think I just need to go into information gathering mode. I'm actually not going to push back at all. I'm just gonna kind of agree with everything he's saying, with his whole worldview, with all of it, just so that he'll keep talking. And I can almost, like, get myself the information that I'm subconsciously avoiding seeing. And, like, just listening to him sort of describe where his, like, worldview was coming from. Or like, his mindset was like, oh, no. Like, it was. It was just kind of so much more illuminating than any, you know, argument that we'd had, because it really was like, okay, I'm creating a really, really safe space for you, and you're talking crazy, friend. So, yeah, that's when I, like, we went into couples therapy the next session, and I was like, I think we need to cut contact for a while. And a while was many months, but, you know, then it was messy. It's complicated, whatever. And then, yeah, it was done, and I put his stuff in storage, and that was that.

[Anna Kendrick]

Do you still have a weird storage locker somewhere?

[Unnamed Guest]

No, no, no. I actually.

[Anna Kendrick]

I would have liked to burn it down with him.

[Unnamed Guest]

But you know what's funny? There are so many times where I'm like, I should have, but then I'm like, that would have been a gift to him. Oh, yeah.

[Anna Kendrick]

He would have eaten that.

[Unnamed Guest]

He would have.

[Anna Kendrick]

I don't even know who we're talking about, but he would have eaten that.

[Unnamed Guest]

Up like the victim. Oh, baby. He would have. And, yeah.

[Anna Kendrick]

Well, I love it. And thank you for ending on that story, because I do. I think it's so important when talking about the stories, you're talking about the shame, all of it. Like, it feels. I think people are waiting for, like, these big moments or, like, the actual, like, physical abuse or all these big things when it's, like, it's in their daily life. And if relationships aren't making you better and making you happy, like, that's abuse in and of itself. So thank you. I just think that was really beautiful, and I like having paid attention to my notes. I think we're out of time.

[Unnamed Guest]

I'm on your schedule, so I don't know, do you?

[Anna Kendrick]

I think you're the one on, like, this giant press. Dwarf is amazing movie that's coming out. Do you want to tell everyone where they can watch it when they can watch it? Yes.

[Unnamed Guest]

So it's on Netflix starting October 18th, so I think that's probably already happening, depending on when this occurs. Yes. And, yeah, it's Woman of the Hour, and it's on your Netflix right now.

[Anna Kendrick]

You guys, run, don't walk. It is truly amazing start to finish. You guys are gonna love it.

[Unnamed Guest]

And if you make it through the first five minutes, you've made it through the worst of it. I'll say.

[Anna Kendrick]

These are crime junkies. They're like, no disclaimer needed. You guys, this is made for you. You're gonna love it. Enjoy it. Thank you so much. This was so fantastic.

[Unnamed Guest]

Thank you for my merch.

[Anna Kendrick]

Oh, you're so welcome. All right, well, thanks again to Sirius XM for letting us hang out in their studio. I feel like a real grown up big kid podcaster now. And don't forget to follow the show. Add it to your library. You can also follow Crime Junkie and we're going to have brand new episodes the last Friday of every month of cjaf. But if you can't wait until then, you can hear Crime Junkie radio on the SiriusXM app for your 24.7True Crime Fix. You can follow me Ashley Flowers on Instagram and Ashley Flowers Crime Junkie on TikTok and make sure you also follow follow Crime Junkie Rimejunkiepodcast I'll see you.

[Ashley Flowers]

Next month Crime Junkie AI.

[Anna Kendrick]

I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation half as much as I did. Anna was truly you guys. I they say never meet like your heroes or the people you love. She is a pleasure. She's everything you think she would be in person. I always love knowing that she's truly a treasure. So make sure you follow her. Go watch the movie and please, please please go check out the episode Serial Killer Rodney Alcala. If you want to hear the Crime Junkie version of that story, it's linked right in the show notes.

[Amica Insurance]

At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Amica Auto Insurance Amica Empathy is our best policy.

[Crime Junkie Merch]

Happy Holidays, Crime Junkies. If you're searching for the perfect gift for the Crime Junkie in your life, or looking to add something to your own wishlist, we've got you covered with this season's Crime Junkie Merchant Store. The Crime Junkie Merch Store is open right now, so whether you're looking for a cozy crew neck, a new favorite T shirt, a classic hoodie, or some fun stocking stuffers, you'll find the perfect thing in our latest merch drop. The Crime Junkie Merch Store is only open for a limited time, so don't wait. Head to crimejunkiepodcast.com to get your favorites today.