Crime Junkie – INFAMOUS: A Conversation with JonBenét Ramsey's Father

Original air date: December 29, 2025
Host: Ashley Flowers
Guest: John Ramsey (father of JonBenét Ramsey)

Overview

This special Crime Junkie episode features a riveting and emotional conversation between host Ashley Flowers and John Ramsey, father of JonBenét Ramsey, whose 1996 murder remains one of America’s most infamous unsolved cases. With new public updates from Boulder PD reigniting discussion, Ashley revisits her exclusive interview with John Ramsey (originally conducted in late 2024), offering his perspective on the case’s aftermath, the impact on the Ramsey family, long-standing unanswered questions, law enforcement missteps, and his ongoing campaign for justice using modern DNA technology. John’s candid reflections provide a rare and moving look at a family forever changed, as well as insight into systemic problems plaguing high-profile cold cases.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Recent Case Updates

• [02:23-05:47] Ashley recaps the December 2025 Boulder Police briefing, reaffirming the department’s alleged commitment to justice for JonBenét and ongoing forensic re-examinations, especially with DNA technology.
• [05:47-06:53] Ashley notes her own continuing private investigation and introduces the forthcoming interview with John Ramsey, originally published as a video but new to most podcast listeners.

2. The Ramsey Family in the Aftermath

• John and Patsy’s Resilience

  • [08:44-09:26] John explains surviving the trauma—focusing on his other children and the strain that commonly leads grieving families to divorce ("...what really got us up off the floor was the realization we have three other children now that need us desperately to be strong.").
  • [09:29-09:38] On grief: "You don’t get over the murder, the loss of a child, you move beyond it." – John Ramsey

• Media Scrutiny and Blame on Patsy

  • [10:08-11:49] Ashley and John discuss how Patsy bore the brunt of public suspicion, stoked by media depictions (e.g., beauty pageant narratives).
  • John defends Patsy: "She was a wonderful mother, an amazing mother." – [10:08]

• Protecting Burke Ramsey

  • [11:49-13:03] The Ramseys’ efforts to keep surviving son Burke out of the media spotlight, even using decoy cars to avoid photographers.
  • On public speculation about Burke: John rebuffs theories about Burke’s involvement, emphasizing his character and the psychological toll of the experience.

3. Public Perceptions and Persistent Myths

• Media Wealth Stereotypes & the Family’s Reality
  • [15:38-20:21] John discusses being painted as “super rich” and unloving, refuting the myth that the family profited from JonBenét’s murder.
    • "I was unemployed for, gosh, I don’t know. I don’t. Five, six, seven years and I couldn’t get a job. We were scraping by basically selling assets, selling our home..." – John Ramsey [18:27]
  • [21:08-24:07] The purpose of his books—one advance supported the family initially; the second was written to help others coping with tragedy.

4. The Ransom Note & Crime Scene

• [21:08-24:53] Ashley and John discuss the famed ransom note—its references (the $118,000 sum mirroring John’s bonus), its chaotic handling, and the scrutiny of the Ramseys’ actions that morning.
  • "Why 118? Why not 100? Why not 200? It meant something to somebody." [23:05]
  • John defends his instinctive actions at the crime scene and recounts the deeply embedded garrote found on JonBenét.

5. Law Enforcement Investigation & Legal Challenges

• Relocating to Atlanta and ‘Fleeing’ Perception

  • [24:53-27:34] John explains their return to Atlanta—motivated by family, support network, and burial, not by escape.

• Early Police Focus & Attorney Involvement

  • [27:34-31:30] The Ramseys’ initial trust in police, shock at becoming suspects, and their decision to hire separate attorneys (later supported pro bono for years due to depleted finances).

• Critique of Police and DA Standoff

  • [36:09-37:11] John recounts the rift between Boulder PD and the district attorney, with each blaming the other for investigative delays.

• Mishandling and Public Pressure

  • [37:27-39:00] Despite full cooperation, John says evidence was overlooked or collected late (e.g., clothing), and the investigation strategy was to pressure one parent to confess.
    • "The whole police case was based on... they didn’t think we acted right that morning. And the strategy... was to bring intense pressure on Patsy and I so the innocent one would confess." [38:49]

• Behavioral Misinterpretations

  • [39:00-42:27] John challenges the so-called ‘wrong’ emotional responses police cited to justify their suspicions.

6. Media Handling, Friends, and the Fleet White Rift

• Regret Over Early CNN Interview

  • [33:03-34:41] John admits agreeing to a high-profile interview was a mistake, done under pressure from non-expert friends and before speaking with legal counsel.

• Falling Out with Fleet White

  • [52:52-56:13] Ashley and John describe the friendship-turned-mistrust with Fleet White, a key early supporter, possibly due to police manipulation.
  • [56:37-57:03] John's suspicion: "If you were a male living in Boulder on the 26th or 25th of December, 1996, you’re suspect in my book."

7. Theories, Suspects, and Unanswered Questions

• Police Overlooked Neighborhood Survey

  • [52:00-52:08] John laments no door-to-door survey was ever conducted, a basic investigative failure.

• John Douglas (FBI Profiler) and Lou Smit (Detective) Theories

  • [49:37-50:55] John shares profiler John Douglas’ theory: a perpetrator angry or jealous at John, not JonBenét.
  • Lou Smit’s Take: Intruder, kidnapping gone wrong, possible second person involved. “Lou said, this is a DNA case. It’ll be solved by DNA.” [70:13-71:03]

• Connection to a Similar Nearby Attempt

  • [62:05-63:02] John describes a similar attempted crime in the neighborhood nine months later—another case that police “blew off.”

• Failed Opportunities and Mishandled Crime Scene

  • [73:06-73:41] Only two hours were initially spent collecting forensic evidence, with unidentified prints remaining unexplained.

8. DNA Evidence and Testing Hurdles

• DNA as the Final Key
  • [66:50-69:43] Early and later DNA results excluded the Ramseys; further touch DNA (from clothing and rope) matched none of the family; remains the best hope for future resolution.
  • [71:28-71:44] "They determined with these 15 particular markers. It’s like 100% match... We had nine of 15 and nine was the threshold at which they would admit it to the database."
  • Ashley notes changing qualifying standards for CODIS, possibly impacting whether the sample is still actively compared.
  • Modern genealogical testing, such as through GEDmatch, is not yet comprehensive and access is in legal flux.

9. Obstacles and Ongoing Advocacy

• Suspicion of Lost or Untested Evidence

  • [75:41-76:31] “There’s items taken from the crime scene, sent to a lab and never tested. We want those other items tested.”
  • [76:39-77:01] The only explanations John sees for lack of progress: lost evidence or an implausible coverup.

• Stalled by Bureaucracy

  • [77:01-78:13] John describes unsuccessful appeals to the attorney general and Colorado governor for outside help.

• Push for New Legislation and The Victims Family Rights Act

  • [88:36-91:12] The 2021 federal Homicide Victims Family Rights Act and efforts to have Colorado (and other states) adopt it—granting families recourse when police fail to adequately investigate long-term cold cases.

10. Personal Reflections & JonBenét’s Legacy

• [92:50-96:08] John shares a poignant story about a medal JonBenét won and dedicated to him, which returned to him in a serendipitous way after her death.

  • "She came running up to me and said, dad, Dad, I won this for you. And it was a medal and it was all talent winter. And she gave me that little medal and I wore it around my neck. And when she died, in my mind, I wanted to get that medal back..." [94:30]

• The Family’s Hope & Persistence

  • Despite the adversities and years of suspicion, John expresses his determination to continue advocating for justice, acknowledgment of systemic failings, and belief in a possible resolution—even if not in his lifetime.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The whole police case was based on... they didn’t think we acted right that morning. And the strategy... was to bring intense pressure on Patsy and I so the innocent one would confess." – John Ramsey [38:49]
• "If you were a male living in Boulder on the 26th or 25th of December, 1996, you’re suspect in my book. I can’t rule you out. I don’t know. I’m so suspicious and frightened and bewildered. You’re a suspect in my book. I don’t trust you." – John Ramsey [56:37]
• "Lou said, this is a DNA case. It’ll be solved by DNA, period." – John Ramsey [84:02]
• "Somebody asked me... do you think JonBenét’s killer would be found in your lifetime? I’m not so confident now at all. I think eventually they will be caught or identified, but maybe not in my lifetime." – John Ramsey [85:20]
• "She came running up to me and said, dad, Dad, I won this for you. And it was a medal and it was all talent winter. And she gave me that little medal and I wore it around my neck. And when she died, in my mind, I wanted to get that medal back..." – John Ramsey [94:30]
• "All eyes on Boulder." – Ashley Flowers [96:32]

Important Timestamps

• [02:23] – Episode premise; recent Boulder PD briefing
• [06:53] – Start of John Ramsey interview
• [08:44] – Living with grief and family impact
• [10:08] – On Patsy, media, and criticism
• [13:03] – Burke’s experience and family protection
• [15:38] – Financial aftermath and media myths
• [21:08] – The ransom note and chaos of discovery
• [24:53] – Leaving Boulder and misinterpretation as ‘fleeing’
• [27:34] – Early attorney involvement
• [49:37] – Theories by FBI profiler John Douglas
• [62:05] – Similar local attempted crime and perpetrator profile
• [66:50] – DNA evidence significance
• [84:02] – "This is a DNA case..." quote
• [92:50] – JonBenét’s legacy and personal memory
• [96:32] – Summation: "All eyes on Boulder"

Tone and Style

The episode is marked by Ashley’s respectful, empathetic, and methodical approach, inviting John Ramsey to tell his story directly and in detail. The conversation moves from analytical to deeply personal, blending true crime investigation with raw human emotion and advocacy.

For Further Information

• Boulder PD JonBenét Ramsey Case Update: [Provided in episode context]
• Info on the Homicide Victims Family Rights Act: [Check federal and state legislative resources]
• How to submit DNA to law enforcement-accessible platforms: Visit GEDmatch.com

This summary captures the substance, emotion, and complexities of Ashley Flowers’ conversation with John Ramsey—ideal for listeners seeking a comprehensive yet structured understanding without having heard the full episode.