B (24:16)
According to Tony, it sounds like something might have been bubbling under the surface. He told Madison that months before Bubba went missing, Bubba had called Tony after some kind of uncomfortable interaction he involving Ernie at Alli's house. Tony says this was not a physical fight or anything, but like Ernie had showed up, Bubba felt disrespected, so he left. And after that, Tony says that Bubba started seeing his relationship with Ali differently. He started feeling used emotionally and financially. It might seem hard to hear everyone's story and make the pieces fit together, but maybe they do. Whatever Bubba's arrangement with Ally was, it seems he clearly did know about Ernie. And it seems like the two Men could hang around one another and be cool. And I'm not taking anyone's word here. There is a picture of Bubba, Ally, and Ernie. Just the three of them hanging out in camping chairs together, smiling. That last Friday. This is actually the last known picture of Bubba. But remember what Allie said to Gonzales? That Ernie was drinking, it was making her upset, and maybe that made Bubba upset. We got our hands on Facebook messages between one of Ally's daughters and Bubba's niece. And those messages echo that. I'm going to have a voice actor read one of them. Some are saying there was an argument. Bubba is very protective of my mom. The only thing Bubba and I talked about the night before was he didn't like how my mom's boyfriend gets drunk and talks to her. Very childish. Nothing abusive. I told him not to worry, that if the boyfriend acted up, we'd all tell him something. He told me, you know, I don't go for any man to disrespect a female, especially your mom. Everyone seems to agree that if an argument happened, Bubba might have removed himself. He might go for a walk. So maybe that's what happened. The problem with this, though, is that's not anyone's story. No one is saying that there was some kind of beef and he went on a walk. Everyone is saying that there was no fight. No one at the campsite says they saw him leave. They say he went into his tent, and the next thing they know, he's just gone. It's possible that Bubba walked off and got lost, but his family can't shake the feeling that they're just not getting the whole story. Something feels off. And they aren't the only ones who feel that way. Our reporter spoke to a woman named Cicely. She has a lake house near the park, and she was there that same weekend. She had an interesting story to tell. She says that about a week after Bubba went missing, she ran into a small crew who was out looking for signs of him. It was Allie, her daughter Roxanne, and Roxanne's husband, George. Now, they were driving around asking if anyone had seen Bubba. And Cicely didn't have any helpful info. But in the conversation, one critical thing came up. She was asking something like, oh, well, you know, if he walked away to use the bathroom or take a walk or something. Like, did he at least have his phone on him? And that's when Cicely says that they told her Bubba wouldn't have had his phone because they'd found his phone in his tent. But in the records we have, it's the opposite story. I mean, we know his phone ping Saturday afternoon at 2:23pm near the camp area. But according to all the records and people's official stories, Bubba's phone was never recovered. Now, Cicely didn't know that at the time, but even without that knowledge, she told our team that the vibes were just off. So off that she says she went back inside and told her husband she felt like something bad had happened to this Bubba guy. Now, we asked Allie about this, and she denies this, says, no, they never said they found a phone, never had it in their possession. Roxanne says this had to be a misunderstanding, like maybe they'd been explaining that the police said the phone last pinged near the campsite, so maybe it was still there somewhere, not that they had actually found it themselves. Now, there is one more witness sighting that I am struggling to make sense of, too. The tip came, like, a year after Bubba went missing, and it was from a couple who lives off Highway 104. Now, we went and spoke to them directly, and they say that the Saturday that Bubba was reported missing, around 8 or 9 o' clock at night, they were driving home from the store when they saw a black man in a white T shirt, not a red one, on the side of the road, right where they were coming to a stop before their turn. What stood out wasn't just that he was there in some remote area or that he was one of the only black men they'd seen in their town, which was predominantly full of a Hispanic population. It was how scared this man looked. They say that he was reacting to a car on the other side of the road, possibly some kind of sports car. And it's interesting because the husband remembers his car being red, while the wife thinks it was maybe metallic, like a silver or gold. And it's, like, wild how the human mind can do that, right? But either way, the wife told us that in her mind, it felt like the people in the car were trying to get this man to come closer, to get him in the car to go with them. But she also admits that she didn't actually see who was inside the car or hear any exact words. That was just the impression she got in that, like, quick, dark moment. Now, when she later saw Bubba's missing person photo, that's when she felt sure that the man she saw looked like him. Similar age and everything. But what does this mean? If it was Bubba? The people at the campground are the ones who reported him missing. If they Would have found him while police and other people Were out there looking. You'd think they would have told everyone, Called off the search. So if this was bubba, I think you would have to say that the people trying to get him in the car Weren't from his group. So, to me, that leaves two possibilities. One, that this wasn't bubba. If that's the case and anyone hears this who might know who that was, Please let us know so we can rule this out. The witness feels confident that this couldn't have been the younger man People saw on Highway 104 earlier. She was clear that this man that she saw Was at least in his 50s. And that leaves the second possibility that this was bubba. And whatever happened to him didn't involve anyone at the campsite. Meaning that maybe bubba did go for a walk or something, and then he met with foul play at the hands of a stranger. The most statistically improbable, sure, but not if your story makes it onto this show. Crime junkies know that the unlikely happens more than you'd think and to the most unsuspecting people. When we reached out to the new mexico state police, they wouldn't do a formal interview, but they did agree to answer some questions via email. They told us there is no evidence to suggest criminal activity and that according to witness statements, it is believed that bubba walked away from his campsite. They also said, in part, quote, the lack of recovered remains or belongings Is explained as not uncommon in cases of missing persons, Especially when environmental factors, time, or location May affect the ability to locate physical evidence. Therefore, the absence of items alone Is not treated as proof of foul play. And while it is possible for someone to go missing and never be found, Everyone else familiar with this area who we spoke to Told us the same thing. It would be hard, especially with this many people around, Especially without a single confirmed piece of evidence left behind. Allie agrees with that. She thinks there is a chance bubba's disappearance could be the result of foul play, Just not by her hand or anyone else in their group, for that matter. She says they would never hurt bubba. She even told us she doesn't think the new mexico state police Did a thorough job enough, Because, I mean, they never tracked down the rest of her group. They never went to her boyfriend Ernie, to get his statement. Now, she and ernie have since broken up, but she still said no way, no chance did he do anything, Even if he had been drinking. She told madison she's willing to take a polygraph to prove to bubba's family that she wants to find out what really happened just as much as they do now. We tried reaching out to Ernie for this episode, but as of this recording, we haven't heard back. Over a year and a half after Bubba's disappearance, there is still no body, no phone, no explanation that fully makes sense for Bubba's family, and that's been unbearable. So if you know something that hasn't been shared, please call the New Mexico State Police dispatch at 505-841-9256 and they'll get you in touch with the right person. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com you can also follow us on Instagramjunkiepodcast. And we'll be back with a new episode. Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. I think Chuck would approve.
