MISSING: Kerry O’Brien-Krueger

Summary

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Crime Junkie - Episode Summary

MISSING: Kerry O’Brien-Krueger

Host: Ashley Flowers (B), with Britt (D) and occasional comments by Brit and others
Release Date: August 3, 2026
Podcast: Crime Junkie by Audiochuck

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ashley Flowers and Britt detail the mysterious 1989 disappearance of Kerry O'Brien-Krueger, a Wisconsin woman and mother whose case has remained unsolved for over 35 years. The episode explores Kerry’s life, the suspicious circumstances of her vanishing, and the actions (and inconsistencies) of her husband Tracy Krueger. It also revisits the investigative missteps, theories, and the unusual suspects—from a possibly deceitful spouse to a neighbor with serial killer tendencies. The case remains active, with new leads emerging even decades later, and the hosts actively seek listener insight that could aid the investigation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kerry’s Disappearance & Early Investigation

• Timeline Breakdown (00:32–07:23)

  • December 5, 1989: Tracy, Kerry’s husband, claims Kerry received a late night call from her manager, Jim, to attend a trade show in Wyoming.
  • She allegedly leaves early the next morning, December 6, for the “trade show.”
  • When coworkers report Kerry as a “no-call, no-show,” Tracy’s story starts to fall apart—there is no trade show, and her job involves tracking such events.
  • Immediate family alarm: “Carrie would never leave her daughter. So if no one can find her, something bad happened.” (B, 03:24)

• Police Response

  • Initial police attitude is dismissive (“She’s an adult, maybe she needs space.”)
  • Only after a doctor’s note (allegedly stating suicidal ideation and depression) does the search escalate—Carrie is entered as missing.

• Kerry’s Health and Marriage Context (04:50–07:38)

  • Kerry had ongoing unexplained severe stomach pain, prompting her sister to even ask if she thought she was being poisoned.
  • Family paints Tracy as an unlikely danger: “As bad as those lies were, there’s also a big difference between a lying husband and a dangerous one.” (B, 07:38)
  • Marriage background: quick engagement, called off, then reconciled and married; recent relationship strain, suspected affair, Tracy lying about seeing a counselor and claiming a false brain tumor.

2. Theories & Tracy’s Inconsistencies

• Search of the Home (09:00–11:00)

  • Family searches the home and finds evidence inconsistent with a planned trip: “Carrie’s purse and ID are gone, but damn near everything else she owns is there… wedding ring, briefcase, makeup, medication, even her winter coat lining.” (B, 09:08)
  • Tracy changes his story about what suitcase Kerry supposedly took.

• Suspicious Circumstances

  • No flight record, no car taken, no witnesses to her leaving, except a neighbor who saw a man by a car but can’t confirm the timing.
  • Tracy’s changing stories: shifting destination for the trade show, details about vehicles, uncertainty about timeline details (11:06–12:53).

• Troubling Discoveries

  • Car was at a mechanic’s, with Tracy controlling the release
  • Tracy lied about the truck being a “loaner”—he bought it, and possibly forged Kerry’s signature (14:34–14:58)
  • Financial strain: Tracy was skipping work, fraudulently padding timesheets, recently demoted at work
  • Tracy often excused absences or canceled appointments by lying that Kerry was traveling for work even when she wasn't.

• Workplace Timeline Contradictions (16:52–19:05)

  • Phone records show Kerry called home several times on her last day at work
  • Timeline of her final evening doesn’t match Tracy’s; he provides suspiciously specific times for mundane events.

3. Tracy’s Amnesia and Investigation Stalls

• The Amnesia Coincidence (21:21–24:25)

  • Tracy collapses after reading a news article, claims to have amnesia—believes it’s 1979, forgets decade with Kerry and their daughter Megan (B, 21:25)
    • “He’s a teenager. Which means: what wife?” (B, 21:29)
  • Medical professionals suspect “hysterical amnesia”—but opinions split on authenticity
  • He tells doctors, “maybe he was involved in Carrie’s disappearance; he just can’t remember.” (B, 23:38)
  • Police remain deeply suspicious: “The timing is just too convenient.” (B, 24:10)
  • Delayed search of the home allows Tracy to redecorate, dispose of evidence

• Potential Evidence Lost

  • $500 cash supposedly taken by Kerry—no evidence the hiding place ever existed (26:09)
  • Significant possible evidence destroyed or mishandled (bloody men's pajamas, sandy residue in truck, lost paperwork for truck sale and mortgages—evidence not preserved, not even tested before being discarded)

4. Family Struggles and Years Without Progress

• Family’s Struggles for Justice (31:30–32:36)
  • The O’Briens essentially take over investigating, searching, and lobbying for the case; law enforcement provides little progress
  • Investigative failures include not checking loan documents for forgery, not properly processing critical evidence
  • Even leads pointing to Tracy’s possible brother are inconclusive
  • The family attempts to maintain contact with Megan but is ultimately pushed out of her life as Tracy regains custody.

5. Alternative Suspect: The Serial Killer Neighbor

• Philip Andrew Fox Segment (51:09–57:32)
  • Neighbor Phil Fox is revealed as a violent felon and possible serial killer—a suspect in his wife’s murder and connected to multiple violent crimes
  • He left town on suspiciously short notice the day Kerry disappeared, but couldn’t be conclusively tied to her or offered immunity in exchange for help, which he refused
  • “If Phil does have any answers about Carrie, those died with him in 2025.” (B, 57:32)
  • O’Briens consider him a red herring.

6. Renewed Efforts and New Leads

• Cadaver Dogs and Basement Mystery (60:10–64:40)

  • Cadaver dogs alert to possible human remains in Tracy’s old truck and in the Krugers’ former house, especially the basement
  • Contractor recalls laying carpet over a mysterious new concrete patch in a basement, but decades later, the identified basement doesn’t match the one at Krugers’ house—could the wrong property have been searched?
  • “If this guy’s memory is solid, that slab is out there somewhere. We just don’t know where.” (B, 63:47)

• Calls to Action for Listeners (66:18)

  • Need for help interpreting old phone records and sharing basement diagrams
  • Ashley urges listeners: “I need you guys to share [the basement sketch]. If you know anyone who worked for Wisconsin Bell in the late 80s, you could help solve a case.” (B, 66:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tracy’s motives and credibility:

  • “If you can lie about a brain tumor, you’re willing to do anything but the right thing. Girl, get out.” (D, 07:27)
  • “No flight record...she didn’t take her car and no one saw her leave that morning with anyone… How did she get there?” (B, 10:18)
  • “There is no air duct. The hiding spot doesn’t even exist.” (B, 26:12)
  • “He claims he barely remembers her or Tracy, that it was all just so long ago.” (B, 56:30, about Phil Fox)

• On the family’s heartbreak:

  • “They don’t just lose Megan. As time drags on, they also lose faith in Burlington Police.” (B, 27:27)
  • “This is not a case to her. This is her life… Empathy is what’s needed here.” (B, 35:03)

• On investigation blunders and sexism:

  • “An agent suggested Carrie ran off to join the circus or the Ice Capades, because women do stuff like that.” (B, 32:15)
  • “A detective just threw it out [red sandy residue]. He said he was cleaning house, getting rid of things police didn’t need for the investigation.” (B, 30:47)

• Britt and Ashley on high school drama in context of diary:

  • “We were reading my granite sophomore journal… I, without any reservations, wish I was dead in, like, Sharpie… If I go missing and Eric takes that to the cops—obviously, she wanted to die.” (B, 47:44–48:22)

• On Tracy’s public statements in 2015 (42:06)

  • “I believe she left… My feeling is, if she were dead somewhere, that body would have shown up someplace or another.” (E, 44:02–45:08)
  • Investigators: “No stroke, no medical reason for any of it… The amnesia is now in serious doubt.” (B, 45:12, 48:30)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:32 – 07:23—Case background, Kerry’s disappearance, and marriage context
• 09:00 – 12:53—Home search, Tracy’s inconsistencies, family suspicions
• 14:34 – 19:12—Financial evidence, timeline contradictions, Tracy’s lies unravel
• 21:21 – 24:25—Tracy’s “amnesia” and how it impacts the investigation
• 26:09 – 32:36—Evidence lost or mishandled, family taking over investigation, agency ineptitude
• 34:41 – 38:29—Megan’s recollection, her upbringing, and Tracy’s narrative
• 51:09 – 57:32—Suspect Phil Fox’s history and tie to Kerry’s timeline, immunity deal declined
• 60:10 – 66:18—Cadaver dog alerts, the basement mystery and contractor tip
• 66:18–end—Call to listeners for help with phone record analysis & basement identification

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Actions & Calls for Listener Help

• Identify the mystery basement: Examine the diagram shared on the Crime Junkie blog and social channels to help place the contractor’s memory.
• Phone records expert needed: Specifically, anyone who worked at Wisconsin Bell in the late 1980s who can read old phone billing formats.
• Contact numbers for tips:
  • Racine County Sheriff’s Office: 262-930-8254
  • Racine County Crime Stoppers (anonymous): 888-636-9330

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Episode Tone

Ashley and Britt balance empathy for the family and Megan with clear-eyed skepticism of Tracy and law enforcement handling. They use frank, sometimes exasperated, but always human language, blending procedural detail with real emotion and calls to community action.

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For More Details

• Check Crime Junkie’s blog and social media for the contractor’s basement sketches and more case documents.
• Share the episode and relevant links to help generate fresh leads and awareness.

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If you know anything about the case of Kerry O'Brien-Krueger, now is your time to help.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hi crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

[C]

And I'm Britt.

[B]

The story I have for you today is one I can't believe I'd never heard of. But it came to us straight from the investigator who's trying to solve this mystery. And he needs your help. Because the truth of what happened to one Wisconsin woman back in 1989 might be right in front of him in two important clues he holds. But he needs the help of our crime junkies to interpret them. One of you might be able to help solve the mystery of what happened to Carrie o' Brien Kruger. It's December 1989 in Wisconsin and with the holidays right around the corner, 19 year old Molly O' Brien is getting into the spirit. She's spending the chilly night curled up in her Milwaukee dorm room watching the Nutcracker with her roommate and her boyfriend. Suddenly her landline rings and it's her brother in law, Tracy Kruger. Which isn't strange. He's married to Molly's 32 year old sister Kerry, and Molly's close with both of them. But what he's asking is odd. He wants to know if Carrie is with her. Now Molly spends plenty of time with Carrie, Tracy and their three year old daughter. But it is always at their house an hour away in Burlington, Wisconsin. Carrie doesn't just like randomly stop by her dorm room so. So she tells him no. And that's when Tracy starts laying it all out. Why he's concerned. The night before this would have been Tuesday, December 5, 1989. He says that Carrie got this call at around 8:30pm Tracy thinks it was maybe her manager Jim calling. Carrie works in PR for Gander Mountain, this like hunting and sporting goods company. And when she hung up, she told Tracy that she had to fill in for somebody the next day at this trade show in Wyoming. And that would have been this day. Like the day that he's calling Molly Wednesday, December 6th. Now Jim was supposed to swing by and drive them both to Chicago so they could catch an early flight. Tracy says that Carrie got Up super early, left before dawn, like 4 or 4:30 in the morning after a goodbye kiss and a reminder to take good care of their daughter while she was gone. But a few hours later, after Tracy had gotten their daughter off to the babysitter and he was at work, he. He got a message that Jim was trying to reach him. And what Jim said was really weird because he wanted to know where Carrie was. She had pulled a no call, no show at work for the first time ever. And Tracy says that he's, like, confused. He's like, what do you mean? Where is she? Like, she's with you in Wyoming.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

But Jim had no clue what he was talking about, because it turns out there was no trade show. And Carrie would know that tracking the trade shows is literally part of her job. Now, the more Tracy talks, the sicker Molly feels, because there is one thing that Molly is sure of. Carrie would never leave her daughter. So if no one can find her, she's sure right then and there that something bad happened. But Tracy tries to keep her calm. He's like, listen, don't worry. Maybe she just went somewhere. I'm going to start calling around. I'm going to start checking with everyone. And he's already sounded the alarm to another o' Brien sister, Kathy. And even though she lives far away in New Orleans, she knows what to do because she's a prosecutor. So Thursday morning, the moment she hears that Kerry still isn't home, Kathy brings their parents in the loop and instructs them to make Tracy file a missing persons report with the Burlington Police Department. Like, do it now. Do it today. So Carrie's parents bring Tracy to the station where he. He runs through it all again. The 11th hour work call, the early trip, and how nobody can reach Carrie now. But while her family seems to be frantic, officers are like, meh, not so much. They put out a BOLO for her, but, you know, she's an adult. She might just need some space. So they give it to her until they realize that space might even be dangerous, because a couple of days later, Tracy brings them a note from Carrie's doctor saying that she had been treated for depression and she might be suicidal. So that is what escalates things, at least enough so that she gets entered into the NCIC database. Now, what the doctor's note didn't mention, though, is the real health problems she had been suffering from over the last year and a half. Severe, unexplained stomach pain, including nausea, vomiting, weight loss. And nobody could figure out why at one Point. Her sister Kathy even asked her point blank if she thought she was being poisoned. And Carrie had, like, joked to a friend that maybe Tracy was the one doing it. That's a joke that nobody is laughing at now that she's gone. But at the same time, nobody could look at Tracy and be like, yep, saw this coming. If he did something to her, it would be a huge shock. I mean, don't get me wrong, Their marriage definitely wasn't perfect. Like, before she worked in pr, she was a journalist, which is how she met Tracy. And in the early 80s, they both worked at a local newspaper, and the two got engaged fast. Then Carrie called it off, unsure if, like, this is really what she wanted. But Tracy kept pursuing her, and in 1985, they tied the knot. She was already pregnant with her daughter Megan at the altar, which caused a rift with her conservative Catholic parents, especially her mom. But they had patched things up since then, and everything seemed to be fine. But the couple's relationship had been rocky lately. Carrie had confided in loved ones that she and Tracy weren't having sex and that he'd been cold and distant. She suspected that he was cheating. He was always pulling late shifts at the same paper where they met. He ran circulation and, like, worked in the darkroom. Sometime in the past year, I guess Carrie had drawn a line. Fix things, or she was gonna be done. Done. And Tracy agreed. He told Kerry that he was seeing a counselor, but then she found out he wasn't. And when she confronted him, her family says that he deflected, claiming that she. He had a brain tumor, which he did not.

[D]

Sorry. No. There are, like, little white lies, and then there are big, like, life lies.

[B]

Right?

[D]

If you can lie about a brain tumor, like, you're willing to do anything, anything but the right thing, like, girl, get out.

[B]

Carrie didn't. And as bad as those lies were, there's also a big difference between a lying husband and a dangerous one. And to what I was saying earlier, nobody had ever put Tracy in that column. The dangerous column. Like tamale. Tracy's basically another brother. She told our reporter Nina that he had taught her how to drive. He was there to cheer her on, at her, like, grade school basketball games. And after all that time together, Molly trusted him completely. But even still, his story isn't sitting right with the family. Like, it's just too bizarre. And every time they poke at it, another hole opens up, including a big one that opens up on Monday, December 11, when Carrie's family searches the Kruger house for themselves. According To Racine county investigator Tommy Sherritt, who's working in the case. Now, when Carrie's family goes to search her house, they see that Carrie's purse and her ID are gone. But damn near everything else she owns is there, including a bunch of stuff that Tracey said she had taken with her. Her briefcase is tucked under a desk. Her wedding ring is there in this, like, dish on the dresser. And her curling iron, her new makeup, her stomach medication is there. She didn't even bring a winter coat. Just her all weather jacket. And, I mean, its heavy removable lining is still hanging in the closet.

[D]

So even though she, like, brought a coat, she didn't actually bring the part that, like, keeps you warm. And she's in Wisconsin. She's going to Wyoming. And all of this is happening in December.

[B]

Well, but, I mean, she obviously isn't going to Wyoming, right?

[D]

Like, right. There was no trade show.

[B]

Somebody invented that trip. But more concerningly, of all of the things I mentioned, there is this big brown suitcase that Tracy said she packed that's in the attic along with all of her other luggage. But when Kathy points that out, Tracy kind of backpedals, and he's like, no,

[D]

no, no, no, no.

[B]

She didn't take her suitcase. She took one of mine. Meanwhile, the only Money missing is $500 that Tracy says they kept in an emergency stash hidden in a basement air duct. But say she grabbed the $500 and his suitcase and a light jacket because she was maybe headed somewhere warmer. How did she get there? There is no flight record that they can find in her name. She didn't take her car, and no one saw her leave that morning with anyone. Although there is one thing. Their next door neighbor noticed a small black car outside her own house at around 4 or 4:30am this is about the time that Tracy says she's leaving. And outside of that car, there was this man standing beside it. But this neighbor can't say for certain whether it was for sure. Wednesday the 6th, or maybe it was like some other morning that week. And importantly, she never saw Carrie get into that sitting car. So even if this was the same day, it might not mean anything.

[D]

Right?

[B]

And with so little to go on, the question shifts from where Carrie went to whether she went anywhere at all. And her family can't help but look squarely at Tracy for answers. I mean, his story just isn't adding up. And investigators are fully asking those questions now, too. Problem is, the more times they ask, the more versions they get of the same story. Tracy can't seem to keep straight who called Carrie that Tuesday night or what exactly they said. I mean, at one point, he says maybe the trade show was actually in Montana, not Wyoming. In some versions, her manager, Jim was supposed to pick her up, Right? But like, in at least one version, Carrie apparently wanted to borrow his truck to get to the airport because her car was in the shop.

[D]

How would he have gotten anywhere while she was gone?

[B]

Yeah, that's why he said that he couldn't lend it to her. And sometimes Tracy, like half, remembers hearing a car outside that morning. Other times, no car because he was like, you know, sleepy or whatever. And depending on who he's talking to, Gary was due home anytime from Saturday, December 9, to Tuesday, December 12. And listen, maybe you could chalk all that up to a foggy memory, last minute plans, a husband who is distant and half listening. But here is the real clincher for me. It's what Tracy's own father tells police, which is that Tracy mentioned to him Kerry's Wyoming trip on Monday, December 4th. This is a full day before Carrie supposedly even got that late night call take, telling her that she needed to fill in. So that alleged Tuesday night trade show call is looking less and less like the start of all of this and more and more like something Tracey constructed as he worked backwards to build a timeline of Kerry's movement.

[D]

So can anyone verify if Carrie got any calls that night?

[B]

Well, no, because in 1989, their phone company only itemized long distance calls, and Jim's call, if it came in, would have been local. So that ends up being a dead end. But detectives can still try to pick apart Tracy's other claims about that night to see where else they might find gaps, starting with Kerry's car. So Tracy had left her car at the shop in early December, claiming that it wouldn't start, but mechanics couldn't find anything wrong with it. He also told the dealership not to release the car to anyone without calling him first, even though it is Carrie's car. Now, at the time, Tracy had been driving a new Ford pickup, and he had told pretty much everybody that that truck was a loaner from a buddy. And that seemed to be even what he told Carrie, because the weekend before she disappeared, she and her sister Molly were in the truck with Tracy when he got in a fender bender. And afterward, Kerry worried how his friend was going to react to this. Well, come to find out, when police run the plates, they learn that Tracy actually bought the truck back in June in both his and Carrie's name.

[D]

This is too Many lies.

[B]

Now, when he is pressed on the truck, he said that Carrie did know and keeping the purchase secret was her idea. Trouble with that is investigators learn that she wasn't with him when he bought it. And so they think that her signature on the paperwork doesn't match her other signatures.

[D]

So they think it was forged.

[B]

That's the implication. And Carrie's family doesn't think that she would have wanted a new truck anyway. The Krugers were already stretched thin financially, and Tracy had just made it worse. Detectives find out after that he had been skipping shifts and padding his time cards. The paper had also recently knocked him from salary to hourly, so he was one warning away from getting fired.

[D]

Did Carrie know that?

[B]

I mean, she knew money was tight, but Tracey's job troubles all the rest of it. I don't know.

[D]

Also, where is he going if he's not going to work? Like, he said he was, like, padding his time card and stuff.

[B]

No idea. But I can tell you an excuse that he leaned on when he wanted out of something. He would tell people, Carrie is away for work. He has to watch their daughter. Interestingly, a few different people reportedly heard some version of that excuse, and they only learned it wasn't true later when they would apparently ask Carrie, like, hey, how was Alaska? And she would be like, what do you mean, Alaska? She had no idea what they were talking about.

[D]

So that lie was unraveling, like, before she was even gone.

[B]

Yeah, and Tracy actually pulled the same stunt days before she vanished. When Carrie wanted to cancel a Dec. 4 doctor's appointment, he suggested, like, just tell them that you're going to be out of town. So investigators have every reason to doubt Tracy, which is why they work backward from the last time anyone besides him saw Kerry. And that would have been Tuesday, December 5th. Gander Mountain kept its own phone records. And unlike the phone company, which only logged those long distance calls, theirs show that Kerry made a string of short calls home that morning. Now, it's not clear why, since Tracy was supposed to be at work.

[D]

I mean, maybe that's why she's trying to make sure he's where he's supposed to be, which is not at home.

[B]

Well, you know, maybe that's that, or, like, for him going hourly. Maybe he. She knew he was home. I don't know. But at some point, I do know that he does go to work because she eventually did reach him at the newspaper. Now, this next bit comes from Tracy, who didn't explain it until after the phone records came to light. But he Claims that Carrie asked him to bring over an envelope that she had forgotten at home. So he says he drops it off at her job, but he isn't sure what was in it because it was taped shut and he can't remember if he left it with Carrie or if he left it with a receptionist. Except no one from her job remembers him stopping by that day. So like TBD to all of that. But we know for sure though through her co workers that Carrie is at work that afternoon and didn't leave the office until 5:30, maybe 5:45. Which by the way contradicts part of the story Tracy had already given them. According to him, Carrie got home at 5:30 and then five minutes later they ate dinner. Spaghetti that he'd made earlier. And at 6:05 he had left to run errands. And he can rattle off every stop. Hardware store, grocery store, liquor store. Two trips to his office and he was home by 7:30. Megan was in bed by 8. And then he took out the trash. And then at 8:15 he heard Carrie on the phone gushing about how beautiful Wyoming is.

[D]

I mean, or maybe Montana.

[B]

Yeah, so she then tells him about the trip. So then at 8:30 he got her suitcase for her from the attic maybe. But it's barrels. She showered, packed and then was in bed by like 10:05.

[D]

And he's got it down to like a five minute window. That's like really specific.

[B]

I know. Especially for what should have been like a pretty ordinary night. Right, right. But then he gets to Wednesday and his black box becomes just like a blur. He sort of remembers Carrie leaving, but he like didn't get up to see her off. Can't tell you the exact time, only that it was still dark. Thinks maybe he heard the back door close and that's it. Not a word from her since.

[D]

So did anyone say how she was at work on that last day? Like was she upset? Was she happy? Like was anything like happening in her life?

[C]

Could they tell?

[B]

Well, it sounds like it was kind of a cr. She had been upset about a mistake in an ad and a colleague noted that she seemed distracted. And then she left later than usual. Late enough that one of her co workers teased her about like her watch being broken. But Carrie just said that she'd been busy and told her I'll see you tomorrow. Except there is no tomorrow. At least not one anyone can account for. Now, when Christmas passes with no word from Carrie, it seems like detectives are coming around to what the family has feared all along. That Carrie met with Foul play. And Tracy might be behind it. So as 1989 winds down, they bring their top suspect in for a polygraph. But the morning of the polygraph test, Tracy says that he's not feeling good. Carrie's sister Kathy, babysitting Megan while he is at the station, isn't buying that. To her, it is a flat out act. But he takes the test anyway, and the results are inconclusive. So they schedule a second test, one for January 5th. But then Tracy cancels. And they would never get another chance to give him an additional polygraph because something unbelievable happened. Something I haven't seen play out in any other true crime case ever. The day after Tracy's never taken second polygraph, he is at work when he glances at a newspaper article about his missing wife and he just collapses. He's taken to the hospital, but the Tracy who arrives there says that it's 1979 and that the last 10 years of his life are just gone.

[D]

What do you mean gone? Gone? Gone how?

[B]

The way he tells it, in his mind, it is literally 1979.

[E]

He.

[B]

He's a teenager. Which means what wife? He and Carrie didn't meet until 1982.

[D]

And their daughter, what kid?

[B]

Megan, wasn't born until 86. But it is only that one decade. He lost everything before. And everything that is to come, picking up at the hospital, he says is perfectly intact.

[D]

So to be clear,

[B]

no, you got it. You can repeat it, but you got it.

[D]

The only part of his life he can't remember is the part that actually matters to this case and this missing woman who he was married to but doesn't remember.

[B]

Doctors run a battery of tests, but they can't find any physical cause of this memory loss. There is no sign of a stroke. Nothing. They do notice. Traci seems to think that he's getting treated for a crushed finger. Like, that's why he thinks he's at the hospital. And it was an injury that he had gotten, like, years earlier.

[D]

Years, like, I don't know, 1979.

[B]

Literally, it was. But believe it or not, the people evaluating him are mostly in agreement that he's not faking it. They think he has what they refer to as hysterical amnesia, and they're hopeful that his memory will return in time, basically. And they say it's already starting to. Like, a couple stray flashes of him, Carrie and Megan. And to one of his counselors, that's exactly what makes it seem so real. Like, the way that his memories are surfacing tracks so closely that the counselor believes that he Would have had to research, like, how this type of memory loss would work for, like, thousands of hours to fake it so convincingly.

[D]

I mean, to be fair, he apparently had a lot of time off of work, so, like.

[B]

But she doesn't. She doesn't think that he's capable of hurting Carrie either. Like, to her, he just seems sad and confused by the whole situation. But Tracy himself isn't even totally ruling out the possibility that something happened or he was involved.

[D]

What?

[B]

According to police reports, he tells a doctor that, like, maybe he was involved in Carrie's disappearance. He just can't remember. But it's not like he's confessing. The doctor's read on it is that Tracy is just like, afraid of that possibility because he can't. Because he can't remember right now. Investigators, despite what doctors are saying, like, they're not buying a word of this. Medical staff can insist all day long that this kind of amnesia is real. That after something traumatic, the brain can shut down to protect itself. And police still land in the same place. The timing of this is just too much. Convenient. Yeah, but they put Tracy's hospital stay to good use. And they finally get a search warrant for the house.

[D]

Wait, what have they been doing this whole time?

[B]

I don't know why this part took so long, but by the time they get in there, Tracy had already done some redecorating. So, you know, because they waited, he had swapped out their barely used mattress for a waterbed. Never mind that they had redone that whole bedroom like, months earlier. Never mind that Carrie hated waterbeds. He had talked about getting the carpets cleaned, too. But you can't scrub a whole house. And detectives cover every inch with a camera rolling. We actually got the video of this. Now you don't see much that's like, you know, incriminating. And the walkthrough is almost entirely silent as they pan across a very lived in house, frozen in time, Highlighting anything that they think is important. Like a Hustler magazine that hit newsstands after Kerry vanished with an article about a hitman who refused a polygraph. And a couple of shotguns in the basement, one loaded. They also scrape a red sandy residue off the ceiling of Tracy's truck. They grab some documents, and in the bedroom, they peel away strips of wallpaper marked with suspicious reddish brown colored stains. But more important than what they find is what they can't find. So remember the $500 that Tracy says Carrie took from their emergency stash on her way out? That money that they kept in the basement air duct. It's not there.

[D]

I mean, so that tracks. The money isn't there.

[B]

No, no, not the money. There is no air duct. The hiding spot doesn't even exist. And you know what else is missing? Any sign that Carrie was planning to leave it is the opposite. There is the decorated Christmas tree, a half finished pinecone wreath that she was making, and a long handwritten list of gifts that she still wanted to buy for everyone, including her daughter, Megan. And speaking of Megan, while Tracy is hospitalized, the o' Briens are trying for temporary custody. But he won't sign off on it.

[D]

Who's he?

[B]

Like, Tracy won't sign off on it. Like he says that he's just a teenage boy basically, and he needs his parents to help him handle this complicated adult situation.

[D]

I mean, he doesn't even remember having a child. So like, why does he have any say in who's taking care of her where she lives?

[B]

Amnesia or not, he's still legally her father. And so like, by the book of the law, that apparently outranks anything that the o' Brien's can claim. So he gets supervised visits. And once he's out of the hospital and back at his parents place in late January, Megan is with him. Harry's family tries to stay in her life, but the few visits they managed were rare, brief, and honestly awkward. So within a couple of years, even those stopped. And they don't just lose Megan as time drags on. They also lose faith in the Burlington Police Department. And I'm not trying to Monday morning quarterback, but during our reporting, I kept noticing this bizarre dichotomy. On paper, detectives were clearly suspicious of Tracy, but there was a lack of urgency with certain things, as if they had already decided that he was telling the truth. Like, for instance, a second mortgage they find out, was taken out on the Kruger home in October of 1989. We're talking just like months before she goes missing. And it was taken out in both cases, Carrie and Tracy's names. The paperwork was slow, so it didn't hit Carrie's Social Security number until after she vanished. That was a heart stopper. Because activity like that, like, could have signaled that she was actually out there using it. But then the police like, traced it to the loan and they figure like, okay, mystery solved. But it seemed like they breezed past the obvious question. Did Carrie actually sign it?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Did Carrie know about it? The o' Briens don't think so. They believe that her signature might have been forged, but they will probably never know because Burlington PD didn't pull the documents or even bother to talk to the notary.

[D]

Well, and they had a forgery suspicion already about the truck paperwork. Like, why would you not follow up on this?

[B]

It is baffling. And by the way, the truck is a whole nother problem, because by the time the department requested those sales documents from the dmv, it was too late. The originals had been shredded, so they were stuck with copies of them. So handwriting analysis were all inconclusive. You generally can't authenticate a signature off of a copy.

[D]

Right. You know, like, how hard it was pressed. There's, like, a lot of, like, specific things.

[B]

And paperwork isn't the only thing that was fumbled. A few months after Kerry vanished, the deputies in a neighboring county found bloody men's clothes, including pajamas and a pullover. This is, like, 16 miles from Burlington. The PJs had two bullet holes near the underarm, and the crime lab determined a gun had been fired at close range. Now, Carrie's sister thought that the top looked like one that Tracy might wear, and she believed that Kerry sometimes wore his pajamas. Although I. I don't think that was ever actually confirmed, to be fair. Either way, that evidence is gone, too. There is no record of the blood being tested, and it doesn't seem like Burlington, like, even kept the evidence. Oh, and you know what else is gone? That red sandy substance that police found on the ceiling of Tracy's truck. But this one is different, because we know exactly how it disappeared. A detective just threw it out.

[D]

What?

[B]

He said he was cleaning house, getting rid of things that police didn't need for the investigation.

[D]

Okay, don't eat it. How would he know what they need or don't need? It's an unsolved case, and it hadn't

[B]

been tested, like, literally.

[D]

To be clear, anything could be important. Anything could be relevant.

[B]

You know, to add to this, there is a rumor that that same detective was a family friend of the Krugers, like Tracy's family. So you can imagine how that sits with the o', Briens, especially since, like I said, he tossed it before it was ever tested. And the family had actually lined up a soil expert to test it.

[D]

So the family lined up the soil expert.

[B]

Yeah, because they're basically working the case themselves. They spearheaded search efforts, they keep an eye on Tracy. Kathy even puts her prosecutor job on hold and moves home for months to run point on this. They hire a PI And Carrie's mom collects thousands of signatures petitioning the Attorney General to move the case to a different agency. And they do get some help from the state, but it doesn't sound like it was much of an upgrade. According to Carrie's sister, Colleen, an agent suggested Cari ran off to join the circus or the Ice Capades, because women do stuff like that.

[D]

You know, Ashley, we've covered a lot of missing persons cases, and a lot of those missing persons are women. Have we ever considered looking at, like, Ice Capades rosters?

[B]

We should. I hadn't thought of it. What a brilliant idea from this man.

[D]

I'm sorry.

[B]

I'm assuming it's a man. Sorry, but also.

[D]

What?

[B]

I know, I know. Now, listen, tips do come in occasionally that will get looked at. And there actually was one tip about Tracy's brother that I thought was interesting. Apparently, he had been telling people that Tracy, quote, blew her away. And when police confront him about this. Cause you gotta. Yeah, he admits he said it, but he swears it was just a tasteless joke. He agrees to a voice stress test. And I know it's not the most reliable tool, but I think it's worth noting. They ask him if he helped get rid of Carrie's body and if Tracy ever told him that he killed her. He says no to both. He passes. The first one, did you help get rid of her body? He fails. The second one, did Tracy ever tell you that he killed her? Now, this next thing isn't like a tip. In fact, I don't really know what it means. But every so often, something strange lands in the o' Brien's mailbox. Most of it's like harmless junk, but one delivery, they get this fake severed finger.

[D]

I'm sorry, what?

[B]

Whether this is a sick prank or a real threat, nobody can say. But even, like, with this stuff coming in, like, nothing moves the needle. So years pass. Tracy and Megan get a fresh start. Eventually, a few hours away, he remarries. Life keeps moving forward for him, while Carrie just stays frozen in time. The o' Briens have no doubt that she was murdered, but Tracy tells Journal Times reporter Jane Ryder that he thinks Carrie is out there somewhere, although he still can't remember the disappearance or, like, anything from the decade before it.

[D]

So his memory never came back?

[B]

He says no, and he blames it on a stroke. Which, by the way, like, to be clear, I said this earlier, but in case you missed it, a stroke was ruled out by the doctors.

[D]

I don't get how he's saying anything if it's, like, all a blank. Like, how do you know she ran off? Even if you truly don't even Remember knowing this woman?

[B]

Well, with his memories gone or no memories of his own, he says that he's relying on what his loved ones have told him, and he basically just doesn't think that he's capable of whatever they're accusing him of. And listen, his daughter Megan believed that. I mean, she still does, as far as I know. And listen, honestly, I cannot begin to imagine what it's like to walk in her shoes. She declined to speak with us for this episode, which I understand, because there is no good outcome for her in this case. And it's not a case to her. This is her life. And I just want to give that a moment for everyone because I think it's really easy to judge, and that's not what's needed here. Empathy is you are innocent until proven guilty. I don't want to sugarcoat the facts, but, like, try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for just a minute. She is up against a world where most people don't see this case the way that she does. And it's not her job to fight. She has to do what is best for herself. And I believe that with every fiber of my being. Like, as a mother myself, if I were Carrie, if I were gone, all I would want is for my baby to be okay. So Megan has to do what will make her be okay. And listen, she was really little when this happened, so I don't know if they were even able to talk to her or any of that. But I know that as she gets older, she does so speak with investigators. Because around 2013, the O' Briens finally got their wish. A Burlington officer transferred to the Racine County Sheriff's Office and ultimately took Carrie's file with her. Now, unfortunately, Carrie's mom didn't live to see it. Neither did her father or some of her siblings. But at least now there are real resources behind her case and a team ready to dig in, like Lieutenant Brian Van Sock. And if that name rings a bell, it's because we have worked with him before. He's the reason that you are hearing this story now. He asked if we would cover it. The way he sees it, Kerry's family deserves answers. So to go back to 2013, one of the first things these investigators do is they go back to the people closest to to carry. And that means sitting down with Megan. And she tells them that she barely remembers her mom, but she had a childhood full of love with her dad. Tracy was a good father, she says, and that's what she has to base things off of. And according to police reports, the little her dad did share with her about her mom wasn't good. He told Megan that her mother was quite cold and uncaring, that she got tired of being a parent and walked out. And Megan didn't question it. He rarely brought Carrie up at all beyond that, and Megan didn't push. So most of what she knows she has pieced together online. Meanwhile, the one consistent in her life was her dad, Tracy. He is the one who took care of her and moved them somewhere new when Burlington got to be too much. But I will say that move wasn't random. They landed in the same spot as Tracy's old counselor, that woman who was so sure that his amnesia was real.

[D]

What?

[B]

Here is what the Racine County Case review report says about that interview with Megan. Quote, Megan said that Tracy had moved to La Crosse a few years after Kerry went missing to get away from it all. Also, his therapist friend was moving up there and he moved up there to be closer to her. In fact, they have homes on the same piece of property to this day. Megan says she even called the counselor mom for a while.

[D]

Okay, and homes on the same property?

[B]

Yes, but it does not seem like they were romantically involved. And just to be clear, she is not the woman that he like went on to marry. Later, they describe the relationship more like a surrogate family. But Carrie's family didn't get that kind of place in Megan's life, though. Tracy told Megan that the o' Briens had stalked and harassed him. He even claimed that they'd broken in and stolen her mom's wedding ring. But here is the lie we can outright catch him in. Because in 2015, on the 26th anniversary of Carrie's disappearance, Tracy speaks with a sergeant and he admits that he pawned both of their rings when he needed cash. Now, we reached out to Tracy for this episode and he never got back to us. But I want you to hear him tell his story in his words. So let me play parts of that 2015 interview for you.

[C]

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[F]

My

[E]

impression is that she was a very wonderful person.

[F]

Okay, and where did you get that impression from?

[E]

From friends and family.

[F]

Okay, so where would Meghan have gotten the impression that she was kind of a cold, uncaring and selfish person?

[E]

That I'm not sure. I don't know. You'd have to ask her.

[F]

Well, what we did ask her and she said that that's kind of the impression that you had given her.

[E]

Well, I don't know how she interpreted that and I'm not gonna pit myself against my daughter. Everything I know about the case is after the fact, right? There's nothing, I have no memory from before then. So everything is had to be relearned.

[F]

When you were getting a handleback that that was your reality, what were you thinking? What were your feelings about that?

[E]

Very overwhelmed.

[F]

Okay.

[E]

You know, it was all so new me I Mean, just even the fact that I had a wife and child was astounding.

[F]

And do you think that you kind of recalled some of that, or is that stuff that you're saying that you only people told you?

[E]

Well, after I had the stroke and everything. Everything that was told me was astounding.

[F]

Okay.

[E]

Okay. I was just. Just baffled, you know? You know, because I didn't believe I was at that age. And this is all in your reports, all in the interview.

[F]

I know. I know that it's all in interviews, but it's been 26 years. I'm sure that you've been asked this question repeatedly through the years. What do you think happened?

[E]

As I mentioned before, probably 10 times to Sunday, I believe she left.

[F]

Why? Why would she leave?

[E]

We don't know. Looking back and talking to people after the fact, I think there were some psychological issues that she was suffering from.

[F]

Okay.

[E]

I think maybe manic depressives. And granted, psychologists cannot diagnose a person without seeing that person, but getting opinions from people in the field, they raised that as a strong possibility that, yes, she did have issues.

[F]

Okay, but what do you think happened to her after she left? I mean, she's never used her Social Security number. She's never used a credit card. She's never gotten a driver's license.

[E]

I don't know. But obviously if she did, she didn't use that given name. I mean, at that time, it was so easy to do. My feeling is, if she were dead somewhere, that body would have shown up someplace or another.

[F]

Right.

[E]

Somewhere there would have to be a body.

[B]

Now, again, we know that doctors confirmed Traci did not have a stroke and in 1990. But that is the story he's sticking with. So investigators decide that they're going to put this to the test again. They hand his old hospital records to a new neurologist for a fresh read. And she agrees with the 1990s clinicians. No stroke, no medical reason for any of it. But she disagrees. In another part, she thinks that he could be faking. A forensic psychiatrist goes even further. To him, this all sounds like bs. Sure, trauma can do a number on a person, but it doesn't just reset a grown man's memory back to his teens and keep it blank for now, decades. And the amnesia isn't the only thing back under a microscope, because Tracy's also still leaning on this idea that. That Carrie was in the middle of a depressive episode.

[D]

A manic depressive, he said.

[B]

Right. Though these days we would call that bipolar disorder. And remember after she went missing, he had brought police a note from Kerry's physician saying that she was being treated for depression and she might be having suicidal thoughts. Right. Like, that's what cranked everything into high gear. Well, guess what. Apparently, nobody ever asked that doctor if he actually wrote that note, because when new investigators go check, he's like, no, definitely not. I never treated anyone for depression. But Tracy won't let this idea go. Even before he lost his memory, he was telling Kerry's family that she was depressed. And then there's the counselor who would go on to live on the same property as tracy. Back in 1990, she told police that she had Carrie's diary and that it showed a lot of anger towards Carrie's family, her mom specifically, going all the way back to when Carrie was younger.

[D]

And when is this diary from?

[B]

That's the thing. Tracy actually hands the diary over himself eventually. Like, he wants police to have it. He thinks it proves that Carrie was unhappy with her family. But when they look at the diary, it's from Carrie's senior year of high school.

[D]

So we have grown older. But I would love your read on this. I just had a senior in high school in my drama, Everything is drama.

[B]

And I know you know this. We were reading my granite sophomore journal.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[B]

On the plane when we were on tour. Not senior year, but pretty damn close. And there is literally our favorite.

[D]

Our favorite. There's one page that says, like, oh, my God, I had the best day ever. Like, things are amazing. My life's gonna be amazing. I am, like, I am on such an upward trajectory. And you literally turn the page, and what does it say? Ashley Flowers.

[B]

I. I, without any reservations, wish I

[D]

was dead in, like, Sharpie. That's the last. And then you just turn the page, and you're like, so I was talking to so and so the other day.

[B]

Can you imagine if, like, I go missing? And Eric takes that to. He's like, obviously, she wanted to die.

[D]

Like, that's what it's. It's bonkers.

[B]

So the note from the doctor is not real.

[D]

Strokes ruled out.

[B]

Stroke is ruled out. The amnesia is now in serious doubt,

[D]

which, to be honest, has been for me since day one.

[C]

But okay.

[B]

Yeah. And still Tracy won't budge from the theory that he has pushed since day one. His wife left on her own. The way I see it, there are two versions of Tracy that cannot be reconciled. One murdered Carrie, faked amnesia, then raised their daughter on the cruelest possible lie that her own mom abandoned her. The other is a man who is innocent but has been unfairly living under a cloud of suspicion ever since she disappeared. But across that dividend is Megan, who's slowly reconnected with some of Carrie's siblings and they have gotten to show her a different side of Carrie. Not a mom who got tired of motherhood and left, but one who loved her daughter more than anything.

[D]

I mean, talk about a rock and a hard place for her. I mean, either Tracy killed her mom and lied to her her entire life, or Carrie really did choose to leave.

[B]

Or not so fast. There is a third option that somebody else could have murdered Carrie and that might sound like out of the blue, like some kind of Hail Mary pass where like sure, anything's possible, right? But is it probable? Well, hold your horses, because it turns out there was a man who lived just a few doors down from the Krugers who police believe may have been a serial killer.

[C]

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[B]

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[D]

Do they not run background checks?

[B]

And a 63 year old woman went missing from that same center. Phil wasn't on staff by then, but he had worked there while she was a resident. So I mean, they probably crossed paths, which puts him on police's radar for that, too. Now, in 2016, Phil got arrested in West Virginia on something totally unrelated. An arson and insurance fraud scheme. And that is when Racine county sees their opening. With Phil already in trouble, they make this trip down south to ask him about Carrie face to face. But he's no help. He claims he barely remembers her or Tracey, that it was all just so long ago. Still, he swears he never hurt Carrie and turns it around on police, accusing them of trying to just, like, pin another crime on him. But Racine has one last move to play. An extraordinary offer for him. If Phil will show them where Carrie's body is, they will make his arson and fraud charges go away. And they won't charge him with anything related to Carrie's death.

[D]

That's like two major get out of jail free cards.

[B]

It's a sweetheart deal. Immunity in Carrie's case is no real gain, right? Like, he's not like, charged with anything there, but like, to make the fraud and arson stuff go away, like, that would be huge for him. But through his attorney, Phil turns that deal down. He says, look I wish I could take this deal. I wish I could help. I would if I could, but I didn't kill Carrie, so I don't know where she is. And that's when the Phil Fox door swings shut. Or at least on this case anyway. If he was involved, I think he probably would have jumped at the chance to help himself. But if Phil does have any answers about Carrie, those died with him in 2025. Which for law enforcement today, puts them right back where they started. Tracy. As investigator Sharrott told us, every road leads back to him. Kerry's surviving siblings feel the same way. They don't doubt that Phil was dangerous, but to them, he was a red herring. And the real threat to Carrie was inside. Inside her house, not a few doors down. And most everyone seems to agree with them. At least the people we spoke with. They just can't settle on a how or a why. Some wonder if Carrie's flu like symptoms meant that she could have been slowly poisoned over time. Or maybe there was a fight that boiled over. Her sister Molly overheard them arguing that last weekend. It was low, intense. Maybe Cary found out about the truck that was bought in her name. Or his troubles at work. Maybe she confronted him. But that's all speculation. Her remains have never been found. So for now, no one can prove what happened or who's responsible. But Carrie's case is still active. Officially, she is a missing person, even though she's been legally declared dead. And since nearly every Tracy related theory centers on his truck or the Kruger's house, that is where investigators have largely focused their recent efforts. They have searched the family's former home, and they've even tracked down Tracy's old Ford pickup. They actually brought out the, like, goodest little boy with the best little sniffer to check out the truck. This is a cadaver dog, mind you. His name is Taser.

[D]

You have a picture of him?

[B]

I will do you one better. The sheriff's office actually gave us the footage of like when they brought him out. Oh, you can tell how excited Taser is to be on the job. He's like circling around the truck and right at the front wheel well, he alerts. He's letting his handler know, like, hey, I can smell human remains here. Lieutenant Van Sach called this hit the strongest indication he's ever seen. And Taser does it twice more in the same spot. Meanwhile, cadaver dogs also alerted inside the house. Once in the stairs leading up to the attic and then again down in the basement. And this past January, there was this tip From a guy who used to work for a flooring company. And that tip sent them back to the same basement. So get a load of this. Around the time Kerry vanished, this contractor guy, he was sent to Burlington to lay carpet in a basement for Tracy Krueger. When he got down to the basement, he says he saw something odd. There was this, like, fresh patch of concrete about 3ft by 6ft. And Tracy told him that it was like drainage repair, but drain tiles run along the walls, like, this guy knows. And this was, like, smack dab in the middle of the room. Now, the carpet guy reported this to Burlington PD back in 1991, but they brushed it off at the time because the company's records dated the job to November 1989, which is nearly a month before Carrie disappeared. But here's the thing. Even decades later, the tipster recalls what happened vividly. And he still remembers how antsy Tracy seemed to just, like, get the floor covered. How Megan wandered downstairs and got into his tools. And when he hollered for Tracy to come grab her before she hurt herself, Tracy apologized and explained that he was busy cleaning out his bedroom because he was having a new bed delivered.

[D]

But Tracy didn't buy the waterbed until after Carrie was already gone, which makes

[B]

investigators question those company records. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe the November date is when Tracy was, like, first called for an estimate. Or maybe it's when he booked the job. Who knows? All they know is they need to go back to the basement, which they do. This time, they bring a cadaver dog and ground penetrating radar. The dog alerts in multiple places, including two in the basement. And the radar gets a hit near one of them. Something is there, just a few feet beneath the concrete. Watching it unfold, Lieutenant Van Sock and investigator Susan Conley are on pins and needles. Years of bad leads, dead ends, searches that turn up nothing. But, like, here they are, possibly standing right above Carrie. But when they pull up the carpet, the floor is solid. There's no patch. There's no repair. There is nothing that looks like what the man described. So they bring the guy back to the house just to, like, see it for himself. And he takes one look, and he goes, well, like, well, there's your problem. This isn't the basement that I worked in then.

[D]

Then, sir, what basement did you work in?

[B]

That is the mystery everyone's trying to solve right now. It's part of the reason that they were willing to share so much information with us so we could pass it on to crime jungle. They think that there Might be a house out there that they never knew to look at. Maybe a relative's place, Somewhere that police had no reason to search. If this guy's memory is solid, that slab of concrete is out there somewhere. We just don't know where.

[D]

Okay, but how does that align with the whole Tracy upstairs clearing out the bedroom thing? Like, I know that only makes sense if it's their house.

[B]

I keep spiraling on that. The bed says that he's in the Kruger house. The floor says he wasn't. Both can't be true.

[D]

Right.

[B]

So Lieutenant Van Sock went and checked the basements at Tracy's parents house, grandparents, places.

[D]

Let's start with those.

[B]

No match. He even sent the contractor photos of another relative's house. Still nothing. Wherever that basement is, they haven't found it. So I had an idea. I was like, have him, like, sketch out the layout of the basement that he remembers. And I actually have it to show all of the crime junkies. I need everyone to spread this far and wide. It'll be on the blog post. I'm gonna put it on social, too, so it'll be easy to share. Maybe this will jog someone's memory because it does not match the Kruger's basement. So their basement is, like a square that is, like, cordoned off into, like, four sections with areas of carpet, concrete, and vinyl tile. And the stairs kind of come, like, right down in the middle of the room.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

The basement that the contractor remembers is simpler. Like, there are just two areas. There is concrete on one side, carpet on the other. The patch he keeps coming back to is inside that carpeted half. And the stairs aren't in the middle at all. They're like, in the very carpet corner with a washer and dryer and sink right beside them. Like I said, I'm going to put these pictures up everywhere. Blog, social. I need you guys to share them. And I need everyone's help with one more thing. So Tracy's whole story hangs on this idea that Carrie's supervisor or someone called her that Tuesday night. And for years, they always thought that those records wouldn't exist. Like the phone records of that. Because the phone company only recorded long distance calls. Right?

[D]

Right. And the manager's call, like, would have been local.

[C]

He was, like, right there.

[B]

Except what they learned recently is that back then, the phone company drew its billing lines by municipal boundaries, not the distance. So two neighbors could land in separate zones.

[D]

And that sound like how it was zoned?

[B]

Yeah. And a call between them could count as long distance, meaning it would show up on the phone bill.

[D]

Problem is, I mean, they can't get the bills anymore. It's been so long.

[B]

That's not the problem. No, they actually still have the bills. The problem is they can't decipher them. Those old bills basically read like hieroglyphics. So they're looking for somebody out there who worked for Wisconsin Bell in the late 80s and know their way around these bills. So if that's you or if you know somebody, this is your time to shine. You could help the Racine County Sheriff's Office solve a case and they want to hear from you. Actually, they would appreciate any information you have about Kerry. And so you can call them at 262-930-8254. And you can also call the Crime Stoppers of Racine county if you want to remain anonymous at 888-636-9330. Crime Junkie is an Audio Chuck production. I think Chuck would approve. Hey, crime junkies, if you're wondering what to listen to next, I got you. Check out another Audio Chuck show, Park Predators. A recent episode is about a couple named Danny and Sue who left for a camping trip in New York's Adirondacks and never made it home. When Danny's abandoned car was found, investigators thought that they were dealing with a missing persons case. But then another attack happened, and suddenly the whole investigation became something much bigger. It's one of those cases where every new clue changes what you think you know. For the full story, listen to the Adirondacks on Park Predators. Wherever you get your podcasts.