Britt (3:09)

Within 20 seconds, we're looking at a.

Ashley Flowers (3:11)

Dead body right in front of us.

Britt (3:13)

In exactly the place where the bad.

Ashley Flowers (3:15)

Smell was coming from. There she is.

Britt (3:18)

I could see a face staring at.

Ashley Flowers (3:20)

Me with what appeared to be a.

Britt (3:23)

Hole in the side of the skull.

Ashley Flowers (3:25)

I could see the hair. And photos that show someone might still be trying to cover up a murder. They invited us back and asked us to have another look again with our camera. My blood ran cold. We were both in total dumbfounded shock at the realization that the body that we'd seen in that floor had been removed. Foreign it's just before midnight on Saturday, June 16, 1990, when the North Wales police get a call from a man named Richard Evans. He's worried about his 52 year old wife, Treveline, because she didn't show up to their dinner date that evening. She's still not home and he tells police that he'd already checked the little secondhand antique shop that she runs just a few blocks away in case she was burning the midnight oil. I mean, it was tourist season after all. But even though her car was parked nearby, she didn't seem to be there. And hanging on the door was a handwritten sign that sent chills running through him. Back in two minutes, it read. Now, signs like this weren't uncommon to see on the door, like it was something Treveline often did. She would tape them up when she was just like stepping out really quick. But Richard had gone by the shop earlier in the day and that same sign was hanging there. Back in two minutes. And the last time he went by, late in the evening, he let himself inside through an unlocked back door and found more evidence that worried him. Her handbag, her keys, jacket, they were all there inside her shop. Things she'd normally take with her if she was going to go anywhere for more than two minutes. I mean, even her makeup compact was sitting out in the open on the counter like she had just been there. I mean, every single sign seemed to point to her coming back. So that's when he phoned police. When Officers responded to Richard's call. It seemed like they were thinking this might end like so many missing persons cases, with the person just showing back up eventually. But there's only one way to know for sure. So they start by trying to piece together Treveline's movements that day. Except her husband actually can't help with that. He tells them that he and Treveline had spent the earlier part of the week about an hour away in town called Rudland, and where they were renovating this little bungalow that they planned to live in once they retired. Soon, Treveline headed back to their current place in Llangollen midweek to tend to her shop, while Richard stayed behind to keep working on the place. Now, that dinner that she missed was the first time they planned on seeing each other once. Like both of them had gotten back.

Britt (6:25)

And are we sure she ever actually made it back into town? I mean, I know her stuff's there, but did anyone lay eyes on her? Yes.

Ashley Flowers (6:32)

Which is why I think maybe for a hot second they're like, oh, she's gonna be back. I mean, her husband even makes a plea early on through the media directly to his wife for her to come home. He says he doesn't understand why she would leave. They were happy, but he doesn't seem to know what else to think. I mean, maybe he's afraid of the worst. Their police officer son, who works a few towns over, also named Richard. I mean, he's looking at the situation differently right from the start. Like if she's gone. In his mind, someone forced her to leave the. And he tells reporters that his mom would never leave town without telling someone. She had a business to run, an aging dad to care for, a grandchild, a ton of friends. She wasn't in any financial trouble. She wasn't having any medical problems. I mean, truly, she seemed to be looking forward to retirement. He says there is no reason she would have to leave. And what's so confounding about this case is whether she left willingly or she was abducted. Neither makes complete sense to me with what they end up learning through their investigation. Physical searches for Treveline turn up nothing. And I mean, these searches were extensive. In fact, it would become one of the most extensive searches in Northern Welsh history for the time. And by the end, they searched a 12 mile radius around the town. They even dragged the river. They searched a local canal. I mean, they're looking inside caves and mines. They knock on every single door in town, taking statements from hundreds of people and running down licenses, plates on more than 650 vehicles, they also find Trevoline's address book. And according to the Daily Post, whose reporting we relied on a lot for this episode, they call every number listed. And remember, it is tourist season in this picturesque little town. So there could be a witness out there who's already come and gone and didn't even know that they saw something important, right? So police thinking this also go and collect records from every hotel and bed and breakfast in the area. And they contact more than 500 people on those lists too. And while they never find anything physical in their searches for Treveline, they do, over time, collect a bunch of little puzzle pieces that when put together, paint a picture of her last movement. But exactly when she put that be back in two minutes sign up. Where she went after and who she met becomes an even bigger question. Cause a few people did see Trevaline the day she vanished. And they say she wasn't alone. So let me start with the timeline from the first full day that Trevaline was back in town. This is Thursday. At about 9:15 in the morning, a local woman says that she sees Trevaline unloading her car near her shop on Church street while speaking to two men. There is a gray haired man in a suit, someone maybe in his like 50s, with a briefcase. Everyone calls this guy the smartly dressed man.

Britt (9:26)

Very proper.

Ashley Flowers (9:26)

Yes, but the witness also said that there was a young man across the street who was like blocking a gate at another shop. And Treveline seemed to be speaking to him too. That's really all we know from Thursday. So then fast forward to Friday. This is the day before she goes missing. There are more sightings of her and possibly more sightings of these two men. According to a crime watch special on the case, a couple of local shop workers see Trevaline in the morning walking down the street with this same smartly dressed man in a navy blue suit with a black briefcase having a conversation. Everything seems fine. Trevline's even like waving to people that she knows. At 9:30, the Daily Post has somebody putting her by this like, tannery shop near her store with the same smartly dressed older man. Then at 12:30, she and this same guy are seen together in town on Oak Street. And Oak street is like a four minute walk from her antique shop. Then we have them together again at 4pm on Market street, which is one right there in town too. Like Oak street, where they were earlier, just like turns into Market street when you cross Castle Street.

Britt (10:33)

Okay.

Ashley Flowers (10:33)

And actually Castle street is the next sighting of her. So at about 8:30 that evening, two locals were driving home down Castle Street. And when they stopped at a light, they saw Trevaleen standing on the stoop of this shop. And they said she was like holding some papers and was like poking her head out. She kept like popping in and out of this little stoop. Seems like she was waiting for someone to come walking down the sidewalk. But they didn't see anyone even when they looked behind them. And the woman in the car said that Treveline normally would wave to them or something, but she never even seemed to see them. And so she didn't acknowledge them. She seemed just super preoccupied in waiting for whatever or whoever it was she kept looking for. Now, that same evening, some tourists who were in town just for the weekend tell police that they see traveling with the same smartly dressed man at a place called Gale's Wine Bar, which is just one street over from where they were seen together earlier in the day. And it's just around the corner from where that couple just saw her like popping in and out of this stoop. I mean, it's like a two to three minute walk to Gayle's from there.

Britt (11:37)

Okay, so like all really in this like, small local area, very close.

Ashley Flowers (11:41)

Now, all the sightings prior to the wine bar seem to come from locals, so I think police take those a tad more seriously. And they actually only get this wine bar sighting after that Crime watch episode airs like weeks out from when she went missing. So I'm not saying they don't believe it. I just don't know how much they were able to follow up on it and what people would remember even if they did all those weeks later. But you know, like I was thinking, to me it sounds like Trevaleen was waiting for someone to pick her up in a car. Like if you look at this on a map, this corner is at this big intersection where you would stop. And the side that she is on, I mean, I guess either side you could pop in. But to me, the way she's like in and out, in and out, it's like you can't miss the car, right? Because like if the light turns green or something, or even if it was a green light, you got like two seconds to pop in. There's something about it to me that's like, okay, was she waiting for someone to pick her up? Less like meeting somebody on the sidewalk. Was it the smartly dressed man who picked her up? I mean, if the sighting at the wine bar is accurate, I Would think it had to be right. Also, it seems most likely since we know she's spending so much time with this guy for, like, so much of Friday.

Britt (12:51)

Yeah, I was gonna say he's in all of these sightings, but he's just known as the smartly dressed man. Like, none of the witnesses.

Ashley Flowers (12:58)

No, not even the locals.

Britt (12:59)

And this is still when her husband is out of town, Right?

Ashley Flowers (13:02)

Right. So this brings me to Saturday, June 16th again, 1990. Sometime that morning, a woman who owned a local market told police that Trevaline came in to buy some milk and something small. She noticed is that when Trevaleen opened her little purse. And when I say purse, think more like tiny wallet than full bag. The shop owner said that she saw a stack of cash. Now, Richard. And police found her actual, like, big purse handbag in her shop. And some reports say that money she'd had earlier in the day has never been found. But, like, don't spiral just yet. Though there might be an innocent explanation. Now, it seems Trevaline made it to her store, opened up the shop like normal. Because that morning, more than two dozen customers come in and out of the antique shop. Even a friend stops by to bring Trevaline some fresh flowers sometime before noon. And this friend says, like, everything seemed totally normal. They chatted a little bit, they had coffee. They even made plans to have a girls night the next week. And it is after that friend leaves when the mystery really begins.

Britt (14:08)

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Ashley Flowers (15:36)

A couple tells investigators that they were in Trevline's shop shortly after her friend left and they saw Trevline like huddled in conversation at the back of her store with a man who matches our smartly dressed mystery man description. I don't know what they were talking about or if the couple could even hear anything, but they don't report anything else wild. They say they leave the shop and and then the next thing we know for sure is that sometime between 12 and 1, Treveline's brother stopped by the antique shop and found the door locked and that be back in two minutes sign on the door, the one that Richard would discover later that night. Now one article I found mentioned that this brother made two stops at the shop like some 20 minutes apart and the sign was up both times.

Britt (16:22)

And that wasn't a red flag to him?

Ashley Flowers (16:24)

No. So like Trevaline had this slogan for her store. It said I'll buy anything and she really meant it. So it wasn't weird for her to head out in the middle of the day multiple times a day to go meet someone for a sale or to scout out items that she could buy, resell, whatever, or even just to leave for lunch. From what I can tell, it seems like she was the sole owner operator so there's like nobody else to cover. So totally possible that he could have missed her twice. And I say this because right about the same time as the second visit, so this would have been about 12:40, we get a really firm sighting of Trevaleen. A passerby sees her locking up her shop, key in hand. I mean if she had anything else on her like a purse or whatever, it wasn't big enough for anyone to notice. And they say she's heading in the direction of the town center, like where all of those sightings were the day before. And then someone in town says that right about that same time is when she stops by the local market and she buys an apple and a banana. Now there is about a two hour window where no one reports anything, sightings or interactions in her store or out. And then at 2:30pm this woman who is familiar with Trevaline Says that she spotted Trevaline near her own house. Like Treveline's house, which, same as everything else, like, we're still within walking distance. I mean, if you're looking at a map, basically you have like her shop on the right. You have the town center in the middle. And then her house is just a little to the left of town center. Now she doesn't see her go in or out of her house. She's just walking right near it, heading back in the direction of town in the direction of her shop.

Britt (17:58)

Alone?

Ashley Flowers (17:58)

Yeah, she's alone at this time.

Britt (18:00)

So do we think she's just like in and out of her shop a ton that day, or is this back in two minutes, just like her BRB sign? Like, I'll be back at some point. Two minutes doesn't really, like, discourage customers. Like, it seems like a short amount of time.

Ashley Flowers (18:14)

So this is what's so interesting to me. Well, two things, actually. So first, she had other signs that she would put up if she was going to be gone for longer. Like, be back in a half hour, back in two hours.

Britt (18:25)

Oh, so like the two minutes is like, specific for this situation.

Ashley Flowers (18:28)

Yeah. So if she went back, she could have like, quickly hung another sign to say that she was going to be out longer. But she didn't. And it's not like something happened to her in two minutes after she left because we know she's like, fine and well at 2:30.

Britt (18:42)

So she didn't come back.

Ashley Flowers (18:44)

Well, this brings me to my second thing. Interestingly, the police find something that maybe indicates she had made it back to the shop at some point after her 12:40 trip into town to buy fruit. There is a banana peel in the store's trash can.

Britt (19:02)

Like a fresh banana peel.

Ashley Flowers (19:04)

Well, it's not fresh by the time they're seeing it. Like, she's not even reported missing until like 10 hours after she purchased it. The shop is searched after that. So was it the same banana peel? Can't tell you. I mean, people spent a lot of time pointing to this as a sign that she made it back to the shop. But I'm like, then where's the apple? Like, nobody talks about the apple. Not even mentioned. So I'm assuming it was never found, but I don't know. And like, did they find the banana peel in her store, but the apple or apple core was in her house? Like, there's never been any reporting about them searching Trevoline's house or what they found if they did.

Britt (19:39)

Yeah. And kind of like without the apple the banana doesn't mean anything. Anything?

Ashley Flowers (19:43)

Not to me. Yeah. So all that to say a lot of people think she came back because of the banana, but like, I think that might just be a red herring. Now, this 12:30 sighting is regarded as the last confirmed sighting of Trevoline. So what could have happened to her in the six minute walk between her house and her store on a bustling Saturday afternoon in a busy town center? Well, maybe some of the unconfirmed sightings can point to that. Reporting in, the leader says that five minutes after she was leaving her house, walking in the direction of her shop, a woman matching her description was seen walking on the main road right off of Market. It's called A five. But this woman is walking in the opposite direction, like heading away from town. And then someone matching her description is seen again around 3:45, even further down a 5, farther away from town.

Britt (20:36)

So if that sighting is true, she could have walked away.

Ashley Flowers (20:41)

Sure, but I mean literally walk, because she left her stuff behind, including her car, which would have gotten her a lot farther, a lot faster. And there's one more unconfirmed sighting that will probably make you realize why all these last ones are unconfirmed. A woman says that at 4pm on Saturday she might have spotted traveling inside her store, possibly with a man. But she only caught a glimpse in the store, so she can't be 100% sure of anything. So police end up not really considering this a fully credible sighting. But if it was her, if there was a man, it actually might have been the younger man, if you remember him.

Britt (21:26)

Oh, the one that they gave at the other shop.

Ashley Flowers (21:28)

Yeah. So all the sightings Friday and early Saturday were of the older, smartly dressed man. But just before 6pm there was a woman driving past Trevaline's shop. And she said that there was a younger man in a trench coat standing outside the antique shop looking suspicious. And she thinks, thinks maybe that the door to Treveline shop was open. Now, to be clear, we never get a sketch of this guy. And nobody says that he's the same younger man as the one from two days before. Like, to me it's just. It's odd.

Britt (22:00)

And you said this door was locked when her husband found it, right? Or like the front door was locked at least.

Ashley Flowers (22:05)

Right. And he didn't have an extra key. He only ended up getting in because he went around to the back where that door was open.

Britt (22:10)

Which, by the way, that's kind of a red flag, right?

Ashley Flowers (22:12)

It seems like it to me. Like if you left your antique shop unattended, and you're going to take the time to lock up when you leave.

Britt (22:18)

Like lock up when you leave then?

Ashley Flowers (22:20)

Exactly. Like, I keep having this gnawing feeling that maybe she did make it back to the shop and then something happened there. Maybe the banana peel really is the one that she bought at lunch. Maybe that's why her compact was out and open. Like she was touching up. Like she got interrupted. Something happened and she was taken out the back. And maybe the back in two minutes sign was put up because it was just the one that was sitting out. And someone just like threw that sign up because it was right there in her handwriting. Like they were just trying to buy themselves some time. And I don't know. There's just a lot that doesn't add up if Trevaline just walked away, which is maybe one of the many reasons why. Pretty early on, police openly say that they suspect foul play. And they say something really specific to a reporter with the Daily Post. In November of 1991, a senior detective says that he believes she was abducted and murdered, possibly after getting into a car with someone she knew. I don't know where the car thing comes from. I think there's loads about this case that have never been shared. But there is one other report I can maybe tie this back to. I didn't include this in the timeline, even with the other unconfirmed sightings, because those at least were reported and then re reported a few times. This one I only found one time in an article from the daily telegraph dated July 13, 1992. And this one says that after she was seen walking away from town. So this would have been that 2:30 sighting, or maybe the 345, but more likely the 230. After that, two people saw a woman who they say looked like Treveline in the passenger seat of a car leaving town. And at least one of the people who saw this said that the woman looked upset. So that's what we know. Okay, let's talk theories. What happened to Treveline? What and who kept her from coming back in those two minutes? Well, the obvious place to start is with the mystery man. This podcast is sponsored by Midi Health. Are you in midlife, feeling dismissed, unheard, or just plain tired of the old health care system? You're not alone. Something that comes up on the show a lot is that women seek out trusted resources for help, but they're often ignored and not taken seriously. Health care is no different. For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored and met with a just deal with it attitude. It's time for a change. It's time for midi. Midi's the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies. Making high quality, expert care accessible and affordable. MIDI offers a full range of personalized solutions, from hormonal therapies and weight loss protocols to lifestyle coaching and preventative health guidance. At midi, you will join patients who feel seen and heard because MITI believes midlife isn't the middle at all. It's the beginning of your second act. Ready to write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.com today. That's joinmitty.com the Care Women Deserve Grooms are a convenient, comprehensive formula packed into a daily snack pack of gummies that taste great. This isn't a multivitamin, a greens gummy or a prebiotic. It is all of those things and then some. Generic multivitamins only contain around seven to nine vitamins, while grooms have 20 plus vitamins and minerals and 60 ingredients which include nutrient dense and whole foods. They're vegan, nut free, gluten free, dairy free, have no artificial colors or flavors, and are available in low sugar or sugar free. Plus they contain 6 grams of prebiotic fiber, which is three times the amount of dietary fiber compared to the lean greens, powders and more than two cups of broccoli. You guys, these are so good. I pack a bunch in my purse or my backpack because I am notoriously bad about forgetting to take supplements, vitamins, all of that, and when I remember, boom. Right there. So use code CRIMEJUNKIE@GROONSCO to save up to 52% off your first order. That's crime junkie@GRUNSCO for up to 52% off. Police soon begin to wonder if Trevline met with foul play at the hands of the smartly dressed man. Because try as they might, they could not identify this mystery man. So why wouldn't he come forward unless he had something to hide, right? Which by the way, it's not like this story was easy to hide from. Local news outlets were all over this. And then you had Crime Watch come in and take the story to an even bigger stage. So in the first year, this mystery man sketch was everywhere and still nobody.

Britt (27:07)

Comes forward to say like they even know who he is.

Ashley Flowers (27:10)

Well, he just doesn't come forward. I mean, they get plenty of calls from people who think that they might know the guy's identity. I mean, at least one person suspects that it might be this Other antique dealer who was in town that day, which, honestly would make so much sense. Like, we know she often goes out to buy antiques. We know she had money on her that day.

Britt (27:27)

Yeah, like, maybe she just had sold something or was about to purchase something.

Ashley Flowers (27:31)

Yeah, it seems like the most logical solution. But all the names of antique dealers that they get put forward to them, like, they're able to quickly look into and rule out, which I kind of.

Britt (27:42)

Don'T buy the dealer thing. Like, if this guy was just there to sell her something, why would he have hung around with her for like, two days? And, like, what the goal is to take that wad of money she was carrying with her on Saturday? Like, why so long?

Ashley Flowers (27:56)

Or maybe there was like, something from her store and he's trying to, like, get her comfortable. Maybe he was a buyer. I don't know if there was ever, like, a full inventory of the items that she had in stock or, like, things that she was expecting. So I don't think we have specific things missing or anything. Like, again, this is just a possibility and one that police really buy into for a while. I mean, a bunch of news reports have them saying that they think the smartly dressed man could be in the antiques world. And they even imply that the way he was dressed had to have had him there on business because one detective told a paper, like, I mean, think about it. It's Saturday. Most people have this day off. Why is this dude still in a suit with a briefcase?

Britt (28:33)

Unless he's like, they're conducting business.

Ashley Flowers (28:35)

Exactly. But they go through that world pretty thoroughly and they don't find this guy. So mystery man, probably not in the antiques world after all.

Britt (28:46)

So call me cynical, which you do.

Ashley Flowers (28:48)

A lot, obviously, but cynical crime junggy, it's like the same thing.

Britt (28:52)

But isn't an affair like an equally likely possibility? Her husband's out of town. She's seen around town with this other guy who, like, yeah, I don't know, he's not running to the police to give his story. It just, like, has me very side eye.

Ashley Flowers (29:05)

The rumor mill in this small town is definitely churning, and it seems like there was some gossip that Baby Treveline was having an affair, or affairs, plural. But police never speak on this publicly. I mean, people are actually quite careful in news reports who just say that she had a lot of friends, both male and female, like, that's it. But let's speculate for a second. What if she was having an affair? And what if she was seeing this man while her husband was away working on their retirement home, something went south. Lord only knows what. But police keep calling this a murder investigation, so let's call it what it is. Was he from out of town? Like, it's wild to me that nobody would have seen. Seen this man before with her, like, just in the couple of days leading up to her disappearance. Okay, fine, maybe. But they have never tied this mystery man to a lover. And also, like, this woman is everywhere with this man. Like, if this is an affair, she is not hiding it.

Britt (30:00)

Right? Like, she's seeing people who know her that are, like, saying, oh, she usually would have hit. Like, she waved. She usually would have waved. Like, we know this woman.

Ashley Flowers (30:07)

They're out and about on town together. Like, something about this man being a lover just doesn't feel right to me.

Britt (30:13)

I mean, unless she was just totally checked out of her marriage. I mean, if she's planning on running off with this guy before Richard comes back into town, maybe. Who cares who sees you? Maybe you're leaving breadcrumbs for your family so, like, they don't have to wonder where you went or if you're by yourself or whatever.

Ashley Flowers (30:29)

But then take your stuff with you, Right?

Britt (30:30)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (30:31)

Make a phone call when they don't get the hint, and your story is national news.

Britt (30:35)

Yes.

Ashley Flowers (30:36)

And for those who know her, leaving them without answers is the part that doesn't add up more than any. Anything else. Like I said, I mean, for the first few years, like, her son Richard was adamant that his mom would not have left on her own.

Britt (30:47)

First few years, did he end up changing his tune?

Ashley Flowers (30:50)

No. So, tragically, like, nine years after she went missing, he actually died of a heart attack. I mean, he was really young, 37. Oh, my God. But one of Trevline's brothers, Len, he's been really vocal in her son Richard's place. He doesn't see a world where his sister just opens up and leaves without a word. And listen, I came into this case fresh off of listening to. There's this podcast called the Vanishing of Janice Rose. So, like, I had a really solid example of what leaving a life looked like. And all the people left behind who swore, like, that, you never would. But, I mean, it could be the case here. Like, what do they know?

Britt (31:24)

Like, I mean, might not be anything more than we do. Even though it's always a possibility that she ran off without taking anything with her, statistically, it's not probable. Like, it's so unlikely.

Ashley Flowers (31:36)

So then did mystery man kill her?

Britt (31:38)

To me, that's the only reason that he wouldn't come forward. He's either with her or he did.

Ashley Flowers (31:44)

Something to her or he helped her get away. Listen, this is like a little fringe. I'm literally, like, making up as I go. But there are, like, some weird pieces to this that I don't think get enough weight. So for 10 years, they're looking for Mystery Man. They get nothing. Treveline just, poof, vanished into thin air. But then something weird happens. In 2001, police form something like a little task force to reexamine this cold case. One room, 10 officers, all dedicated to tracking Treveline's movements in the three days before she vanished.

Britt (32:20)

It kind of sounds like writing a crime junkie episode.

Ashley Flowers (32:22)

Exactly. And from this, they drop a bombshell. They say the sketch of Mystery man should be ignored. What? They give us nothing as to what happened, why the sketch is wrong. What about it is wrong?

Britt (32:41)

Just like. Just kidding. Disregard.

Ashley Flowers (32:43)

Well, yeah. Here's what's so weird. Lots of people will talk about this case in a way that implies Mystery man is no longer important. Important? But that's not what I read. Nobody says he's not involved or he's no longer important to the case. They just say that the sketch is inaccurate.

Britt (33:00)

I have a list of follow up questions because they had so many witnesses.

Ashley Flowers (33:07)

I know. So was the sketch just wrong? And a decade on, they don't have much hope for witnesses giving them something useful or did they ID him. But he turned out to not be important. And again, to be clear, that is not what they're saying.

Britt (33:23)

Wait, they're not saying anything?

Ashley Flowers (33:24)

Right. But many years later, when the documentary in the Footsteps of Killers is produced, or they do a single episode on this case, a woman named Linda is interviewed, and she says that shortly after Trevaline went missing, she began dating one of Trevaline's brothers, Phil. They were together for like, five years following the time she disappeared. And when she's being interviewed, she's like, I don't know what all this mystery man talk is all about. That man, that sketch is without a doubt, her brother Phil.

Britt (33:55)

Wait, what? I'm confused, girl.

Ashley Flowers (33:58)

Me too.

Britt (33:58)

How would no one know it was her brother?

Ashley Flowers (34:03)

So Treveline has two brothers, right? Len and Phil? Okay, Len lived in town, but Phil traveled for work a ton, apparently, so locals were probably wouldn't recognize him.

Britt (34:12)

Mr. E. Got it.

Ashley Flowers (34:13)

Yeah, but in an article I found, it says that he was in town that week from Switzerland. And listen, the side by side pictures of them are interesting.

Britt (34:25)

Oh, that's the same man. Yeah. Okay.

Ashley Flowers (34:29)

And in Every picture that this ex is showing in that episode, Phil is in a dark suit jacket.

Britt (34:35)

I mean, honestly, this makes sense to me. She's all over town with this guy. Doesn't really add up for a secret love affair.

Ashley Flowers (34:43)

Like, nothing to hide with her.

Britt (34:45)

Yeah, there's nothing to hide if it's just your brother.

Ashley Flowers (34:46)

Yeah.

Britt (34:47)

So if it's true, she could have walked away.

Ashley Flowers (34:50)

The problem I have, though, with this. Okay, it's Phil. How is this not confirmed? Like, Phil had to have heard about Mystery Man. He had to have mentioned to police all the times that he saw her when he was in town, if that was him.

Britt (35:04)

Because that would be, like, very, very solidly confirmed sightings. Because, like, her brother is with her the whole time.

Ashley Flowers (35:11)

Right. Like, in my mind, I'm like, again, Linda's like, oh, this is for sure her brother. And I'm like, I feel like police would know that. So is this terrible police work? And also her brother Phil is living under a rock or. My only third option for Mystery Man. What if she didn't leave with him at all? What if he just helped her leave? And listen, I'll admit this one is the most far fetched. But if Mystery man is Phil and this wasn't the most bungled investigation of all time, that is the only thing that makes sense to me. The only reason he would be the guy who's seen with her over and over for days, but then not admit it is if he knows where she is or is hiding her or helped.

Britt (35:54)

Her or something and is, like, protecting her by not saying anything.

Ashley Flowers (35:58)

Yes, question mark. I don't. You know what I mean? Like, it's the only thing that, like, it's the only way Phil makes sense to me.

Britt (36:03)

Okay, well, where's Phil now? Can't please just talk to him?

Ashley Flowers (36:08)

No, Phil's dead now.

Britt (36:10)

Okay? I only have more questions.

Ashley Flowers (36:13)

I know.

Britt (36:13)

If it was him, if she did leave willingly, whether he helped her or not, what's the why? Like, why is she walking away from her whole life? Like, with his help or without it?

Ashley Flowers (36:23)

There's no good explanation for that. I mean, all of the reporting talks about her being in this happy marriage. She just opened this shop within, like, the last couple of years. She's planning for retirement. She had, like, a new little house, new grandbaby. On paper, life is 10 out of 10. But the other bombshell that Phil's ex dropped in that in the Footsteps of Killers episode is she says none of that is true, that Trevline wasn't happy. And she says that Richard wasn't all that nice of a guy. So, I don't know, maybe now that her son was married, had a family of his own, she wanted out while she still had some life to live.

Britt (37:02)

But just get divorced?

Ashley Flowers (37:04)

I mean, it seems like a way easier solution if that's what she wanted. But maybe it wasn't an option. Or maybe she just didn't want to go that route.

Britt (37:12)

Barring a situation where she was afraid of Richard, I would think that she'd want to take some stuff with her to start her, like money, her car.

Ashley Flowers (37:21)

Maybe she had someone else who was helping her, a la fille, or a lover who is or isn't our mystery man. Or maybe she'd been preparing for this. I mean, remember, so there were those rumors of an affair or multiples affairs in town or whatever. Well, in the in the Footsteps of Killers episode, they actually talk of at least one affair like it is a sure thing. And they say that they learned she had actually gotten an inheritance of like £10,000 from a man that she'd been having an affair with who passed away. Now, I don't know when that was or if that money was still accounted for, but like, if true. Pretty interesting in my book.

Britt (38:01)

Yeah, that. That does kind of change things.

Ashley Flowers (38:04)

But again, I think part of the reason I'm like was it is because it doesn't seem to change things for police. They say Traveline was met with some sort of foul play at the hands of someone she knew. Which makes me go back to, did they do a terrible job the first time around? Either ignore this or not dig deep enough to learn this. Or maybe, like I said before, maybe it's not that interesting as the documentary of the episode presents it to be.

Britt (38:30)

So if this inheritance thing is real, I imagine Richard had to have known about it, right? Like, I can't imagine that went over well.

Ashley Flowers (38:38)

He might have. I mean, maybe that's why he seems so willing to accept that she just left. I mean, Richard consistently is the one who talks to Trevline in early news reports, like, as though she's alive, asking her to come home, implying that she left on her own while her son and her brother, like, don't even seem to entertain the idea. But if you believe that, if Richard believed that she left, if he knew, like, why not allude to the fact that she had a reason to go instead of saying that you guys had like this great happy life, happy marriage or whatever. I mean, to save face, maybe. But there's another reason you do that too. If you want to divert attention. Which brings me to theory number three. What if Richard did something to his wife going back to 2001, after they brought that group of investigators together? This is the same time that they said the sketch is inaccurate. They also arrest Richard.

Britt (39:33)

Oh, I'm sorry. You could have led with that.

Ashley Flowers (39:37)

Well, I'll tell you why I didn't. According to the BBC, after some questioning, Richard is released that same day without facing any charges. Police never call him a suspect. They also never explicitly say that he's cleared. The only official statement we could find is that, according to the BBC, they released him, quote, pending further inquiries. And if they ever questioned him again, it again didn't result in any charges. Now, the timing sure feels suspect to me.

Britt (40:06)

Yeah. I mean, you can see my face.

Ashley Flowers (40:08)

Like, hey, this picture we said was so important for a decade.

Britt (40:12)

Forget about that.

Ashley Flowers (40:13)

Probably not accurate. Husband is arrested. But timing feels calculated.

Britt (40:18)

Yeah. To me, at least, it feels very like, hint, hint, wink, wink, this is the direction we're looking. Without actually saying anybody is officially anything.

Ashley Flowers (40:31)

I can't put words in police's mouth. I can only tell you what they did.

Britt (40:34)

Okay.

Ashley Flowers (40:35)

Because they never say anything about Richard, and I don't have access to the police file, so I can't tell you what they were thinking or even, like, I would die to know what came of the questioning or, like, what questions.

Britt (40:46)

They asked me to be a fly on that wall.

Ashley Flowers (40:48)

And listen, I have zero evidence backing this up, but I Wonder if in 2001, like, could they have talked to Phil's ex for the first time? Like, it makes sense to me that she would have never been spoken to early on because it seems like they met right after Trevaleen went missing.

Britt (41:04)

Right. She didn't know Trevaleen.

Ashley Flowers (41:05)

Yeah. So day one investigators miss her. Even people a couple of months on are like, oh, like, why would this new girlfriend who. Who wasn't even around have anything? Like, just skip her?

Britt (41:12)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (41:13)

But if she got in touch with investigators 10, 11 years on and started telling them things, the two bombs that she drops in that episode would explain to me the exact two things that happened. Right. Like a thousand percent bomb one, she says, I think mystery man is Phil picture gone. And then bomb two, I didn't tell you the whole thing. Yes, she said that their marriage wasn't great. Whatever. Whatever. She also said that sometime after Trevaline disappeared from furniture and carpet were moved out of Trevaleen, Richard's home.

Britt (41:44)

Wait, but how does she know this?

Ashley Flowers (41:46)

Bill told her about the carpet and furniture and the two of them thought that it was so weird, because if you still think your wife is gonna come back, you're talking to her.

Britt (41:55)

I was like, you're asking her to come back in the news.

Ashley Flowers (41:57)

Yeah. Getting rid of a bunch of stuff in your house is probably gonna be a shock to her. Like, is now really the time?

Britt (42:03)

And when was he supposedly doing this? Like, was he moving it to the retirement house, maybe?

Ashley Flowers (42:08)

No. No, because he never ends up moving to the retirement house. He ends up selling it, and he ends up converting her antique shop to residential housing. Like, rents it out. So, I mean, I guess TBD timing. Maybe he was moving some of the furniture to the shop to furnish the apartment. I don't know. And I don't know exactly when the girlfriend heard about this or, like, when this exactly was supposed to happen. I just know shortly after she went missing. She also says that after her and Phil were together, Richard would come by the pub that she worked at to talk to her. And looking back, she thinks that he was trying to find out what she knew or what Trevline's brothers were maybe talking to her about.

Britt (42:46)

Like a temperature check.

Ashley Flowers (42:48)

Yeah, but she said it was so weird because, like, in all the times that he did talk to her, he showed no emotion, never asked questions, never said that he loved his wife, missed his wife, which she found weird, but I don't know.

Britt (42:59)

So here's the thing.

Ashley Flowers (43:00)

Like, I know I teed this up being, like, you know, her two things. Phil is mystery man. Richard removing carpet, furniture, and, like, them not being happy. Yeah. Maybe those two things explain what police did in 2001. But I also can't make those two things work together. Phil as mystery man only makes sense to me if he was, like, helping Treveline get away.

Britt (43:19)

Right?

Ashley Flowers (43:19)

Which no one ever suggests to be true. But then if he helped her get away, why is Richard moving furniture then?

Britt (43:27)

Richard has nothing to do with it.

Ashley Flowers (43:28)

Yeah, and even if he did that, it's not suspicious.

Britt (43:31)

It has nothing to do with why she's gone.

Ashley Flowers (43:33)

This makes no sense. I mean, you see why police is calling this one of the most confusing cases their department has ever worked, ever seen.

Britt (43:40)

Yeah. So, okay, can we just, like, pause for a second and, like, go down a path with me? If Richard is involved in some way, break it down. Is his alibi of being out of town bogus?

Ashley Flowers (43:51)

I'm not gonna go down a path with you. I'm gonna take you down the rabbit hole with me.

Britt (43:55)

Let's go.

Ashley Flowers (43:56)

So Richard is supposed to be In Rutland, Right. An hour away. Police had initially reported that he didn't get back until 5pm and I read somewhere that workers could confirm that he was at this bungalow where the work was being done. But I only saw that in like one article. And there was some stuff even saying that Richard and Trevline only had one car, so he like couldn't have gotten back. But like, in my mind I'm like, but he did his guy, whether it's at 5 or whatever, we know he gets back. Like maybe he got a ride, I don't know. But anyways, if he's not back until five, he's in the clear. Since everyone believes something happened to her around 2:30 when she was last seen near her house. Well, fast freaking forward. At some point there are changes in news reports about when Richard gets home without any real explanation as to to why all of a sudden it's changed. Sometimes people call it lunchtime that he's back. In that TV episode I was talking about, they get more specific and say that a police source told them Richard was seen at a local pub at.

Britt (44:57)

2:30, 2:30, like exactly when she goes missing.

Ashley Flowers (45:02)

Yes. Now a bunch of blogs that I've seen go on the other extreme and they say that he was for sure in Rutland and actually he kept calling the house and shopping and when he couldn't get her, he called a neighbor to go check. And they're the first to realize the shop is locked. They call and tell him he calls police, maybe from Rudlin, but for the life of me, I have no idea where these blogs are getting that information because nothing even close to that is in the news reports that I have access to. But even if he was there that whole time and calling the neighbor, I'm not even sure that puts him in the clear in my mind. I mean, without knowing the timing of the calls, I can't say if he did or didn't have time to go back and forth, like between his bungalow and their home.

Britt (45:47)

Did they ever do any of the searches for her up where the bungalow was?

Ashley Flowers (45:52)

Yes, but not when or why, you might think. And really this is when and where our case becomes active, like in present day, and gets excited exceptionally more weird. So before I tell you what I'm about to tell you, let me set the stage a little bit. So there's this wild tip that police get in March 2019. Based on all the reporting that was out there before, it seemed like these two men got a tip given to them that led them to believe they knew where Trevaline's body was. And a ton happens after this police search. They don't find anything. Then something even stranger happens. And then, like, a lot of people just end up writing these guys off. Like, oh, they're just making it up. But when I was looking at this case, I'm like, why? Like, they have no connection to Trevoline, no reason to be doing this. They don't gain anything. And they are still so convinced that their information is right. They say they have pictures, but of course, the pictures aren't published anywhere. So obviously I need to get my hands on those pictures. And what I really wanted to know was, is where did this tip originate from? Yeah, that is never reported on. And to me, it feels pretty important. Like, can I solve Trevaleen's case from another country? Probably not, but am I gonna try?

Britt (47:11)

1000%.

Ashley Flowers (47:12)

I couldn't call myself a crime junkie if I didn't. And this felt like the one place I knew I might actually get answers. Because unlike the rest of this story, where everyone I wanted to talk to has already passed and can't give me the details, I need these two brothers, Andrew Sutton, an accountant, and Lee Sutton, a carpenter. They're still alive and have connections to this little place you might have heard of for the first time today. Rutland. So I asked our reporter Taylor Harts, to track them down and ask them how this tip came out. And this is a story that, in Andrew's own words, is stranger than fiction. So get ready. Andrew Sutton told us that in 2019, his brother Lee, Lee's the carpenter. He was doing some construction work on a bungalow in Rutland. And when Lee mentions this to Andrew, Andrew thinks of Trevaline. Her case is like local lore in North Wales. And when Andrew hears bungalow in Rutland, like, to him, there is only one bungalow in Rutland.

Britt (48:15)

Right?

Ashley Flowers (48:16)

Obviously, that's not true. So not surprising when Lee brings it up to the owner and he's like, no, no, no, this isn't the same bungalow that Treveline and Richard owned. But actually, this guy that he's talking to remembers the case well, too. And he said that Richard used to spend quite a lot of time at the same bar that this guy did at the Rutland Golf Club, which, like, nothing burger to Lee, right? Like, Lee didn't really know about this case. Like, he's like, okay, cool. He goes on with his day, but as he's packing up at the end of the day, he's making small talk with this guy, asking him, like, oh, well, do you still Go to that pub at the golf club. And the guy's like, no. You know, I actually stopped going to Rutland Golf Club because it started to smell inside. And Lee said in that moment, he literally dropped whatever was in his hand because he had heard that before. So he said that back in 1990, young buck in his 20s, he was in the construction trade then, like he is later. But he says back then he did work for this older guy. And every day, this guy did lunch at the golf club. Now this guy, again, he seems to be retired or whatever. And Lee said that he used to work at the golf club back in the day. So this was, like, his spot. Lee knew his routine. He would leave. He'd be gone for about an hour or so for lunch, come back. Well, one day in 1990, he leaves for his lunch at the club, but he's back within, like, 15 minutes. So Lee's like, why back so soon? And this guy said that there was this terrible smell in the building. He, like, could not take it. Now, he confirmed. Guy in 1990 and Guy in 2019 did not know each other. Like, he asked 2019 Guy. So he's got two separate people over the course of almost 30 years telling him about this horrible smell at the club in the summer of 1990. Now, his brother, Andrew Sutton, told us that 2019 Guy said it wasn't just him that was bothered by the smell. A lot of people were complaining about it. So much so that they complained to staff at the golf club. And he said the golf club was adding an extension at the time. So employees reached out to the contractors, and the contractors were basically like, oh, you know, an animal must have just, like, gotten in under the floorboards and died.

Britt (50:31)

And is that where the smell was coming from? Like, is it where the construction was?

Ashley Flowers (50:35)

So, no, that's the weird part. But, like, from what they were hearing, it was just like, nobody wanted to deal. They were kind of all satisfied saying, like, listen, had to be an animal that died. It's decomposing. Yes, the smell is horrible, but it's eventually just going to go away on its own. So, as you can imagine, after Lee hears this, he immediately calls his brother and is like, hey, I asked about that bungalow. Not the one you're thinking of, but you're never gonna believe this. And both of them are just kind of, like, stunned. So they decide to go on a field trip. Like, they gotta see this thing for themselves, right? Like. Cause there's no way. Two random brothers, one who'd never even heard about the case they're not gonna find something that police haven't. But what if.

Britt (51:19)

Again, this is like sounding like the creation of a crimejobking episode.

Ashley Flowers (51:23)

So in the most responsible fashion, they actually go to police first. They make sure that they have this information to check it out, and then they wait. Surely there's going to be a search or they're going to hear something back. Hey, FYI, we looked into it. It's nothing like, thanks for the tip. But they don't. Even when they try following up with police, police are like, listen, we may look into it, we may not. It's like, not your problem to worry about. Bye. Which isn't enough for them. Like, they gotta be in their bonnet about this thing now. Because Lee has been catching up on Trevaline's case in this time, he watched the Crime Watch special that was filmed within two months of Trevaline going missing. And he sure didn't like how Richard, who, by the way, is already dead in 2019 when all this is happening. Lee doesn't like how Richard keeps slipping into past tense now and then, talking.

Britt (52:12)

About his missing wife, which, like, we've seen before. And it always makes me side eye. Cause, like, you would have to consciously correct yourself if you knew something.

Ashley Flowers (52:23)

I know. And I honestly, when I first watched it, like, and I'm like the crime junkie, I didn't even pick up on the past tense thing. My first go around. The thing that, like, really kind of drove me up a wall is I noticed that in all of Richard's interviews, anytime he like, talks about the police investigation, he's like, praising them. Like, they did everything they could. Like they're doing a great job and maybe they did. I'm just saying I've never seen a case where a missing person is never found over decades. And the family is like, you did all you could do. Like there was like. I'm not saying there's a first time for everything, but, like, there's usually like.

Britt (53:00)

Some hesitation, some like, questions.

Ashley Flowers (53:02)

What else could we have done? Like, we could. We could have done this earlier.

Britt (53:05)

Can we just explore other options? But like the.

Ashley Flowers (53:08)

Yeah, but anyways, all that to say, like, they're honing in on their own things and the Sutton brothers are not going to let this go. I don't know if they would have called themselves crime junkies before, but Lee and Andrew, you are crime junkies. So at some point, Lee decides to go take a look at this floor for himself. Like, what's what? Could a body be down there? Could it Just be an animal. And when he does, he doesn't think that there's any way an animal could have gotten under this floor accidentally and died causing this smell. He thinks the only way something dead wound up under those floorboards would be if it was put there by someone. And they are going to figure out what it is if it is the last thing they do. And they know exactly how. So this building has an air brick right near where this smell originated from. And I actually had to look up. I didn't know what an air brick was. It is exactly what it sounds. It's, like, shaped like a brick, but it has holes. So, like, it's vented.

Britt (54:05)

Go through it.

Ashley Flowers (54:06)

Yes, right there in the name, Ashley. Now, the holes are too small to actually see anything, and it's obviously, like, dark under there. But Andrew knows a tool that they can use. So one Saturday morning In March of 2019, they go to a hardware store and they buy a Stanley fiber optic LED inspection camera, which is basically this tiny little thing that you hold. It has a screen on the front, and then it's like a little tube.

Britt (54:30)

Like a scope.

Ashley Flowers (54:31)

Yeah, that's the word man today. So it has this little scope, so you can put it in tiny holes.

Britt (54:36)

Okay.

Ashley Flowers (54:36)

So they buy this, they go straight to the golf club, specifically the bar, and they're, like, sitting there inside, like, putting the batteries in, playing around with it, figuring out how it worked, and coming up with a little white lie. Because they felt like if they told the people at the club that they're going to go hunting around for a.

Britt (54:52)

Dead body, like, might not be welcome at the club.

Ashley Flowers (54:54)

Yeah, they're not gonna be super into it. So when the guy at the club is like, oh, what are you doing with that? They make up a story, and one of them is like, oh, you know, my brother's gonna buy this house, and I wanna check that the floors haven't, like, brought it out or whatever. Do you mind if I just test it out here? And the guy's like, sure, whatever. Go for it, Brit. Okay, I am gonna show you the pictures. These have never been published before anywhere in the world. And this is what they see seconds after putting the camera through the air vent. Oh, my God. This is an ad by BetterHelp. World Mental Health Day is in October, and BetterHelp is shining a spotlight on therapists, people who truly make the world a better place. Because the right therapist can change everything. And that's because you can change anything with the right outlook and the right support. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully qualified. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. But if you're not happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recs. This World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com crimejunkie that's better. H E L P.com crimejunkie Saks Fifth Avenue makes it easy to holiday your way. Saks is where you can find everything from the perfect Chloe bag for your hard to shop for sister to a Prada jacket for a fancy holiday dinner. And if you don't know where to start, Saks.com is customized to your personal style so you can save time shopping and spend more time just enjoying the holidays. Make shopping fun and easy this season and find gifts and inspiration to suit your holiday style at Saks Fifth Avenue. I wish the quality was better here. The Stanley camera doesn't record it. Like that camera thing on it is just a viewer. Yeah. So what you're looking at is pictures that the brothers took of like the view screen or whatever.

Britt (57:18)

Okay. I don't need it to be any clearer, Ashley. I, I think I'm looking at a human skeleton.

Ashley Flowers (57:24)

I know. And even like the printouts, I feel like don't do it justice. The second I saw it, I'm like, I mean, I feel like skull, eyes, spine. There's like maybe a hole in the skull. It actually that's like more pronounced when you print it out. I mean, like, I don't know. I looked at this and I saw it the same way that I think that they did. I saw it instantly. I was a little surprised that apparently our so our reporter saw it too. So did another reporter we have who's a former detective, but apparently everyone else in the office, like, didn't. They were like, oh, yeah, no, there's nothing there. So, like, I don't know if I'm the one who's like, losing it or me.

Britt (57:59)

It's also one of those things, like, am I being biased? Like, I know what I'm looking for. So I'm sorry Seeing it, one of those things.

Ashley Flowers (58:05)

But I mean, what? It doesn't look like anything else, at least not to me. And listen, I told you, these have never been published anywhere before. Even though these men have talked to news outlets.

Britt (58:16)

Wait, why not?

Ashley Flowers (58:17)

I don't know. Like, when we talked to Lee, he said that they tried to get these pictures out there. Like they've had interviews scheduled with other reporters who've just ghosted them. And then when they did a sit down with one journalist who actually heard them out, they never ended up publishing anything. So Lee says they feel like they just keep, like hitting brick wall after brick wall until we called. Now they gave the photos to us, no problem. Like they're dying for someone to take them more seriously. It makes no sense to me. And listen, I mean, like, obviously I haven't been able to authenticate these photos. I asked the brothers if any other people have tried and they said no. Truly. When they were first just like talking about this and I hadn't seen them, I was like, you know what? Like, this is gonna be so vague. You probably can't see anything. That's why everyone writes them off. Like, it's probably why everyone doesn't wanna publish them.

Britt (59:04)

Because they're blurry and it's like, yeah, vague, I know, but then I see.

Ashley Flowers (59:07)

Em and I'm like, what are we doing here, people?

Britt (59:10)

So, okay, back to the story. They stick the scope down the air brick. They see this. What do they do then?

Ashley Flowers (59:18)

Well, they're in shock for a minute, as you can imagine, but they leave. So they said that they left. It was like a weekend. And for like the weekend, they're like staring at these pictures like, this can't be real. But like, they really felt like it was real. So they took the pictures on March 14. On March 19, they come back to the golf club and they tell the people at the club what it is they found and they need to call police. And Lee says that the guy that they were telling this to at the club just, quote, went to pieces and was like, well, how do you know? Who is it? How long has she been there? And Lee obviously said, he's like, you know, I don't. I don't know. Like, we just know our. What our photos show there appears to be a body under the floor. He said at that point there was this other woman who appeared. She seemed to be in charge at the golf club as well. And Lee said that she was asking about how this might affect their business. Now we tried calling the golf club ourselves to Ask a manager about how all of this went down. But when we did, the manager was already gone for the day or out of the office or in London, and they have not called us back yet. But we do know that staff at the golf club and the Sutton brothers called police when Andrew and Lee showed them the photos. And Andrew says that within a half hour, a large number of officers from Northern Wales PD show up. They show them where they think the body is, show them the pictures. And Lee says that he followed police inside to this room right above where they spotted the body. And guess what's on the floor? This trap door. It's like 2ft by 3ft. Ish, they estimate. But there's this big, heavy freezer over part of it. And Lee got a chance to get on the floor and really get, like, a good look at it. And here's the really interesting part. He said that it looked like it had not been opened in a long time.

Britt (61:12)

I think the interesting part is that police are just letting him examine this with them.

Ashley Flowers (61:18)

I think he, like, snuck in. I guess he was wearing something that, like, maybe similar to what you might be wearing if you're actually gonna go in that crawl space to collect the body. And there were, like, so many people, he kind of just, like, slipped right in there. But once they realized who he was, they did kick him out. But importantly, he said that as he's leaving, he can hear them, like, prying the door open, and he could hear the nails screeching in a way that you only here when something is, like, decades old.

Britt (61:43)

So he's the carpenter brother, right? So, like, he kind of knows what he's talking about here.

Ashley Flowers (61:47)

And he's like, I'm walking out, and I'm like, this is it. They're going to find her. But this is like when he's getting shootout. So they make him go outside where Andrew was waiting, and then they're moved even farther away from where the work is being done. And it's weird, this officer who is leading them away, Lee says that he says the strangest thing to him. He says that their photos would never hold up in court. Court. And Lee's like, court? Like, who's talking about court? Like, what? It's just weird. But I don't know in the moment, whatever. So they're in the clubhouse just waiting, and the officer in charge comes back to Lee and Andrew and says, hey, we want you to put your camera back in. Just, like, see what you can see. So they go back, they put their camera back in and this is what they see.

Britt (62:34)

Where'd it go?

Ashley Flowers (62:35)

Where'd what go?

Britt (62:38)

Don't do that. Where's the skeleton?

Ashley Flowers (62:40)

Police say there never was a skeleton. They say they found nothing. Now, that's what we get in the official reporting when police talk to news outlets. We searched, we found nothing. Andrew and Lee told us, though, that as they were pulling the camera out, I mean, confused as hell about what was going on.

Britt (63:00)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (63:01)

They said, like, again, as it's coming out, they spot something, a bone, maybe like 10 inches long. And Lee starts getting all excited. He's like, there. Okay, do you see this?

Britt (63:11)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (63:11)

And he shows the camera to the detective inspector. And they get no explanation, like, nothing. They are just asked to leave, go to the station for statements, which they do. They go, they give statements and they leave thinking that they're gonna hear something about the bone that they saw altogether. But they don't. The next day, they just get a call and police say there is nobody.

Britt (63:33)

But then. Then what am I looking at back here? What is that?

Ashley Flowers (63:38)

Feel crazy. Yeah, the brothers feel crazy. Like I said before, they've met with reporters, they've met with people who. The ones who did that, like, episode on this case, but they feel like they're screaming into the void.

Britt (63:50)

Yeah. Actually, there was a body there.

Ashley Flowers (63:53)

According to police, there was not.

Britt (63:55)

But if these pictures are real, then.

Ashley Flowers (63:59)

Then, then I would think someone moved her body. And that's exactly what the Sutton brothers think happened. Specifically, they think someone in the police department removed it. They're pretty vocal about this theory, and Lee posts about it all the time on his social media. But of course, I mean, there's no real evidence to support this. And they, like, there's.

Britt (64:20)

If there's no body, there's no body to remove.

Ashley Flowers (64:23)

And we don't have a statement from the police department on this.

Britt (64:26)

So, like, why the police stuff? My first thought went to someone at the golf club. I mean, there was like four or five days between them putting the scope down, taking the pictures. And then when they go back to.

Ashley Flowers (64:38)

Call police, it seems like that's what seemed like the obvious answer to me. But I mean, talking to the brothers, like, what makes them so convinced of their theory is they always point back to the trapdoor. They say that there is absolutely no other way to get to that spot where they think the skeleton was other than the trapdoor. And Lee is adamant that when he saw that trap door and heard it being removed, he knew that that thing had been shut tight when police opened it. And that when they're opening it. That was the first time that that had been done in, like, decades.

Britt (65:06)

But how would they remove a skeleton with all of those people? I mean, you said there was, like, a crowd, dude, with no one noticing.

Ashley Flowers (65:14)

I don't know. And also, why, like, a cover up like this would take a lot of people. Why would a lot of people have a vested interest in this?

Britt (65:26)

I was gonna say. And to protect who? Like, there's a lot of question marks as, like, what the motive would be to do this.

Ashley Flowers (65:32)

To me, the only person who wins if she's not found there is the golf club.

Britt (65:36)

Right.

Ashley Flowers (65:37)

But again, the brothers don't leave a lot of room for who. They point squarely at police, and they even end up filing a formal complaint against the police, criticizing their handling of the case. The Independent Office of Police Conduct reviewed the complaint and then sent the matter back to the police department. That was being that they're making the complaint against, like, they're. Listen, this is like an internal matter. You guys should handle it. And the police department is like, we reject this complaint, this complaint on this.

Britt (66:02)

Case that didn't happen to them.

Ashley Flowers (66:03)

Case closed on their end. So that's it. The brothers are written off as looney randos. Who imagined this whole thing while I'm over here, like, but did they?

Britt (66:14)

Yeah. I mean, let's hang out here just a minute longer. If there really was a body under the floorboards, if it really was put there the summer of 1990, if it was Treveline, to me, that kind of points to just one person.

Ashley Flowers (66:30)

And Andrew and Lee have a whole theory about this. They say that they've heard Richard and Treveline were having problems and that she was actually on the verge of leaving him, which they think led to some sort of altercation and ultimately her death. And we know his bungalow was close by the golf club. And he, by his own admission, says he's in Rutland when she goes missing.

Britt (66:52)

Right. Like, that was his alibi.

Ashley Flowers (66:54)

The whole thing started because someone who used to go there says, in 1990, Richard drank at the golf club bar. And we weren't able to verify this, but Andrew and Lee say they even believe that Richard was working as a handyman at the golf club that summer.

Britt (67:11)

What?

Ashley Flowers (67:11)

I know.

Britt (67:13)

Wait, what did he do for a living? Like, was he always a handyman?

Ashley Flowers (67:16)

He worked in maintenance. I think it was, like, at, like, a chemical plant. So, like, it's totally plausible that he could have been doing work there. Again, we haven't heard back from anyone at the golf club, so we haven't been able to confirm this, but anyways, the brothers are saying that they heard this from other people because obviously people telling them to, like, shoo, shoo, shoo, go away. Like, this doesn't make them less interested in this. And they have talked to a lot of people about it since. So they think Richard would have had access to a storage room off the kitchen, where they say there was a trapdoor leading underneath the floor. And they think that he could have put Trevaleen's body under there to cover up a crime.

Britt (67:54)

I mean, hypothetically. It could work. He gets back to Langloughlin, scoops her up in the car. I mean, she'd get in with him.

Ashley Flowers (68:02)

Someone she knew, or.

Britt (68:03)

Or maybe something happens in her shop, he drives her off to another town.

Ashley Flowers (68:07)

Listen, what's so weird to me is, based on everything I've read, police never even searched the whole Rutland area back then, by the way. So, like, I mean, she totally could have been hidden away if she was there. And then he ends up selling the bungalow, so even he doesn't keep ties to that town.

Britt (68:24)

But when would he have put her under the floor? I mean, she went missing on a Saturday. You can't just, like, walk into a golf club on a Saturday afternoon and hide a dead body under the bar.

Ashley Flowers (68:34)

Like, no.

Britt (68:34)

What's the timing of it, then?

Ashley Flowers (68:36)

I don't know. Like, she would have had to have been somewhere else, at least for a little while, which, like, I don't know. Whatever. That's doable. The part that's outlandish to me is how ballsy you would have to be to put anything dead under the floor and not expect someone to go looking for it. Like, who doesn't know that a body is gonna start to smell, Right?

Britt (68:53)

Especially when you, like, have this other house of theirs, right? Like.

Ashley Flowers (68:57)

Well, that's what I'm saying.

Britt (68:58)

The bungalow's right there where, like, no one else is. Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (69:02)

If someone would have, like, smelled this and gone looking for it and found that it was Treveline, like, he's right there. There would have been no one else to blame but him.

Britt (69:11)

Well, yeah, and that doesn't really make sense to me either. If there was a trapdoor there, why didn't they go looking for the smell in the ninth? Like, in 90?

Ashley Flowers (69:20)

Like, I have to.

Britt (69:21)

We know it was bad for business. People left.

Ashley Flowers (69:23)

Well, the only thing I. The only thing I can think is that maybe it was already nailed shut. Or then crack it open, maybe. You think it's a raccoon you're like, what? I don't know, maybe. Maybe the smell wasn't as bad as everyone remembered. I don't know. I have spiraled on this. I'm even like. I mean, I've gone deep. I'm like, who owned the golf club in 90? Like, online property records for North Wales? Like, they don't go back that far. Would someone have kept such a big secret for Richard? Is everyone still keeping the secret and that's why the body was moved. But, like, why would a whole department be hiding a secret for a dead man? Richard died in 2014. Like, dude, this is. Was there no body after all? But wait, just when you start thinking that this happens in 2021, this small metal plaque seems to appear mysteriously one day, bolted to a bench on a walkway just outside of Rutland. No one knows when exactly it got there or who put it there. And it looks like one of those little memorial plaques that usually say, like, in memory of whoever. Except this message looks handmade. Like someone actually scratched a message into the metal. A message that reads, in memory of Trevaline Evans. Vanished. 16, 6, 1990. Found Rudland GC 14, 3, 2019. Removed. 19, 3, 2019. RIP.

Britt (70:55)

So the Sutton brothers put it there.

Ashley Flowers (70:59)

That was my first thought. But they say that they're not responsible for it. They actually think that it might have been a relative of Treveline's or maybe some. Someone from the police department who put the plaque up, someone who maybe was there while they were excavating and, like, I don't know, this is their way of, like, whistleblowing. But again, there's, like, no evidence to back that up, so I don't.

Britt (71:19)

And this is like a public bench. Like, it's owned by the town.

Ashley Flowers (71:23)

It is, but, I mean, this is definitely not like, a town sanctioned plaque. Like, the local government actually had it removed. But then another one pops up, this time outside an old miner's cottage a few minutes away from the first bench. This one's same size, same material, same, like, sketchy handwriting, it seems, but the message is longer this time. I'm gonna have you take a look at this one instead of reading it. You can do it.

Britt (71:47)

Justice awaits those responsible for the removal and disposal of Trevoline Evans in this life or the next. From Rudling golf club on March 19, 2019, at noon. And may the Lord have mercy upon their souls. Nudism specific.

Ashley Flowers (72:03)

I know I can't find anything about what time of day the. Like, they searched for her or whatever took up the floor and of course, like, no one knows who put this plaque up either. Now, it's been quiet since 2021, but maybe that's because no one was listening. If enough people talk about this case, talk about these pictures, maybe more people will feel comfortable coming forward and speaking if they know something. There's been a fifth theory explored over the years that, you know, Trevaline could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time and gotten caught in the crosshairs of a stranger, perhaps a serial killer. In 2011, police explored this avenue and looked into two different serial killers in the area. Robin Lygus and Christopher Halliwell. Robin killed a few men in the area around that time, one of whom was an antique situation dealer, but they couldn't find any solid connection to Treveline or actually any other female victims. As far as I can tell, all of his victims were male, so it seems like he was ruled out. And then with Christopher, he did kill women. And apparently he used to work as a window cleaner who had a habit of stealing antiques. And back when Trevline disappeared, he was apparently working in North Wales. But they've never been able to definitively tie him to Trevline's case either. And sure, a serial killer is possible, but is it probable? Right, and who was the mystery man? Where does he fit into all of this? Does he exist? Or is he a fiction of everyone's imagination, like police say the skeleton under the floor was for the Sutton brothers. Someone out there can answer that question. And if that's you, you can email me tips@audiochuck.com I'll be looking for your message. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com and if you want to listen to more episodes like this and all of our episodes completely ad free, be sure to join the fan club. You'll also get early access to new.

Britt (74:16)

Episodes every week and you can follow us on instagramjunkiepodcast.

Ashley Flowers (74:20)

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