Ashley Flowers (3:19)

It is Ashley Flowers here and I am popping in to share something new with you that actually stemmed from something that is a bit of a throwback. I think all of you know by now that Brit and I are on the road for Crime junkie life rule number 10 tour. It has been a complete blast. Wonderful seeing all of you who've come out to the stops we've made so far. I can't wait to see more of you soon. But this thing today, what I'm about to tell you, this actually stemmed from our very first tour in 2019. The case we told then was wild, filled with twists and turns. But you guys know me and when I get in like I get into all the craziest rabbit holes like even over the smallest details. Well in the case from our first tour there was a suspect who had googled this term that had nothing to do with the case we talked about. This suspect had googled Dana Ireland autopsy photos. Now I had never heard of Dana Ireland and like I said, it had nothing to do with the case we were talking about. Why is he googling this? So I kept digging and digging. I just had to know more. And thus the years long journey of exploring Dana Ireland and her case began. This case is one that has so many layers and you can dive into all of the details on our latest season of the Podcast three. This season is hosted by someone I'm sure you crime junkies already know, Amanda Knox. She's going to walk you through the case, through how three men were convicted of Dana's murder and through the many costs that she knows firsthand come when the justice system gets it wrong. And as our team was on the ground reporting in Hawaii where this case took place, an update came that changed everything. And because you all are my crime junkies and I know you want to be the first in the know, I am sharing the first episode of this season of three with you right here, right now. So take a listen and then head over to the podcast three. You can find it wherever you get your podcast. And you can listen to the second episode that also dropped today. Again, just search for three in wherever you listen to podcasts. Albert Ian Schweitzer versus State of Hawaii.

Amanda Knox (5:43)

It's 9:21am on Tuesday, January 24, 2023, and a man named Ian Schweitzer is standing in a courtroom in Hilo, Hawaii. He's not a total stranger to this feeling or to the criminal justice system in general. He's been here before, but this time it's for very different reasons. Over 23 years ago, Ian was convicted of a crime he firmly asserts he did not commit. And for almost two decades, the Innocence Project has been trying to help him prove it. Ian's team, including the legendary Barry Scheck, who co founded the original innocence project in 1992, well, they would spend the next seven hours stating their case in front of Judge Kubota.

Ken Lawson (6:38)

Your Honor, this is a critical day in Ian Schweitzer's journey towards justice. It started on October 4, 1997, when he was arrested and jailed for the sexual assault and murder of Dana Ireland. He has insisted on his innocence for all who would listen. For 26 years, 9,243 days marked by fear, confusion, isolation, sorrow, anger, despair, terror, and now hope. Ian never stopped hoping that this injustice would be corrected. The family has been ridiculed, shunned, treated like pariahs in their community. But none of the Schweitzers ever gave up hope that there would be a day of justice that would arrive. As Dr. King famously said, after the five day march from Selma to Montgomery, truth crushed to earth will rise again. No lie can live forever. The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. We want to thank the court in particular for the wisdom, guidance and patience that you've had with all of us over this entire proceeding. We rest his family. Yeah, filled up the courtroom. And what was odd is it's a lot of times, you know, when you have someone charged with a serious crime, you know, some departments of public safety overflow the courtroom with deputies, right? Like, this is a scary person, right? So when we first get there, I mean, they are extremely mean to the attorneys, very mean to our. One of our volunteer attorneys, very mean to the family members. These are the deputies, right, who believed, at least from my perception, believed that Ian was guilty. And the hearing, as you said, lasted all day. And they had to stay There they being, the deputies had to stay there all day. And you could see the more that they heard that evidence, the nicer they started becoming with the family members. The more they heard that evidence. Right. The more human they seemed to become.

Amanda Knox (9:03)

That's Ken Lawson, the co director of the Hawaii Innocence Project. They have been looking into Ian's case since around 2006. But when Ken started in 2010, he took it over. And ever since, he's been damn near determined to prove his client's innocence. But no one had predicted that today would be the day, especially not Ian.

Ken Lawson (9:29)

I think he knew that he was supposed to be coming back for a hearing. He didn't know that he was coming back so soon because he was in quarantine. The Department of Public Services has to fly out to get him and bring him back. And they were saying because of the COVID rules that he would have to stay in quarantine there. And then when he came back here, he would have to be quarantined in the jail before he could even come to court. The next question was, are we going to get a judge that's going to.

Amanda Knox (9:56)

Listen to everyone's surprise? The judge announces his verdict later that same day.

Ken Lawson (10:04)

My amazing team broke down everything and just step by step, just knocked everything out. My belief was the hand of God was going to vindicate me. I had God's team. There's a judgment of this court that the new DNA evidence, the tire tread evidence, the bite mark evidence, and Sean Schweitzer's recantation conclusively proves that in a new trial, a jury would likely reach a different verdict of acquittal. So therefore, the conviction of Albert Ian Schweitzer for murder in the second degree, kidnapping and sexual assault in the first degree is hereby vacated. And Mr. Schweitzer shall be released immediately from custody of Mr. Kepler. So, Mr. Schweitzer, I'm ask you directly, you've spent roughly half of your life so far as a free man and another half of your life in prison. How old are you now? 1:51. Okay. The question is, how do you make up for that lost time? And I'll give you a bit of advice. You live roughly one third of your life. You got one third of your life ahead of you. You can live it being angry and resentful at the process or the people that put you there, or you can live it with a new freedom. I suggest that since you have your whole family here, you hug and love your family and live a fulfilled life and make the best of the next one third of your life. So after we conclude this proceeding, the family of Mr. Schweitzer are allowed to come across the bar. No one else is allowed to come Forward to greet Mr. Schweitzer. Mr. Schweitzer shall be released from his shackles immediately.

Amanda Knox (12:02)

In a matter of hours, Ian Schweitzer is free. Well, sort of. It's a feeling very few people understand. Being charged and convicted of a crime you didn't commit. While his story played out a little differently, Ian's brother Sean is also one of those people.

Ken Lawson (12:25)

I took my deal, I got out and I was supporting my family. It's shady that I had to do that, but you better have taken it. You better have taken it. I would have been sitting in, you know, the cell right by him if I didn't do that. That's the way I felt.

Amanda Knox (12:45)

And so AM I.

Ken Lawson (12:47)

A 22 year old American student, Amanda Knox, was found guilty in Italy of murdering her British roommate. She was immediately sentenced to 26 years in an Italian prison.

Amanda Knox (12:57)

As the verdict was read, a crowd outside the courtroom burst into cheers. Inside the courtroom, Amanda Knox and her family began to sob. I'm Amanda Knox. And while studying abroad in 2007, what was supposed to be a once in a lifetime college experience turned into a life altering nightmare. One I would spend the following eight years trapped inside of and will carry with me for the rest of my life. Amanda Knox walks free. This was an extraordinary day in Italy.

Ken Lawson (13:32)

And all over the United States. Immediate liberation. She didn't commit the crime. The words of the judge tonight, she's free.

Amanda Knox (13:40)

In February 2023, after Ian was released from prison, I traveled to Hawaii and met him in person. Little did I know that almost two years later, I would be sitting down now with you all to tell you what has happened since that very conversation. Behind every wrongful conviction is a devastating and complicated web that is almost impossible to untangle. But during this series, we're going to try to do just that. Because justice doesn't have to be complicated. And the victims in this case deserve clarity. Justice too long delayed is justice denied. Over the past 18 months, we've had a team of people who've been out on the Hawaiian Islands investigating this story, talking to the people that were there firsthand, some who have never spoken out before. Recording in depth interviews that you will hear nowhere else. We've poured through nearly 40,000 pages of documents about this case. We've listened to countless hours of audio, from witness stories and confessions to secret grand jury testimony and never before heard interviews with jailhouse informants. All so we could discover the truth behind the murder of Dana Ireland and the three families who will never be the same because of it. But what we didn't expect was that the story would change drastically over the last year, year and a half as we investigated. Actually, no one did. In July 2024, the world found out who really killed Dana Ireland. A name that never popped up on investigators radar matched the DNA left at the scene and on the body of Dana Ireland.

Ashley Flowers (15:38)

If you had told me a month ago that this is where this path would have turned, I would have called you a liar and said there's no possible way.

Amanda Knox (15:46)

But to understand how we got here, you have to understand what has transpired in the 33 years since Dana Ireland was murdered. I'm Amanda Knox and this is three season two Murder in Vacationland. We're asking you to come with us to the Big island to hear the untold story of what really happened to Dana Ireland and how her death impacted the lives of three families. The Irelands, the Schweitzers and the Paulines.

Ken Lawson (16:27)

We also had DNA on our side. It didn't matter. We didn't even have a car. We didn't even have a car. Guilty to prove it is, you know.

Amanda Knox (16:37)

No, it ain't.

Ken Lawson (16:37)

Eating Schweitzers like I said. I just said that because that's what the detectives wanted. T mobile 5G home Internet keeps getting better. Get our fastest connection loaded with benefits. Get T mobile's best home Internet starting at 55 bucks a month without a pay in any voice line plus price lock. We won't raise your rate on Internet. Check availability@t mobile.com home Internet exclusions like taxes and fees apply.

Ashley Flowers (17:19)

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Amanda Knox (18:09)

Chapter One Christmas in Hawaii It's December 1991 in a small town Kapoho. Located on the eastern end of what's known as the Big island of Hawaii, it's not the place most mainlanders think of when they imagine the Hawaii Islands. It's quieter, slower, serene, the ultimate tropical paradise and often called one of Hawaii's best kept secrets. And within Kapoho there is this little subdivision called almost too perfectly Vacationland. At around 5.30pm on Christmas Eve, a local woman named Ida Smith had just gotten home from running some afternoon errands and is settling back when she hears something strange. The call of a hawk? No. She realizes what she's hearing is not bird calls. It's sounding more like a girl who is calling for help. Ida quickly follows the direction of the faint screams which take her towards a vacant house near her property. And then she sees her. About 80 to 90ft down the narrow gravel roadway towards the waterfront, surrounded by bushes, is a young woman in desperate need of medical attention. She is barely clothed, and it's clear she is suffering from numerous injuries by the amount of blood on her. And based on her appearance, Ida also believes the woman has been sexually assaulted.

Ken Lawson (19:53)

She had nothing on. Her jeans were. She had cut off jeans and they were down on her ankle. And her shirt looked like someone had grabbed it and tore it off her like that.

Sponsor (20:06)

So I got a hold of her.

Ken Lawson (20:07)

Arm, you know, and I said, let.

Amanda Knox (20:09)

Me help you up. And she started to scream.

Ken Lawson (20:14)

Pain. And so I stopped because I didn't want to hurt her.

Amanda Knox (20:18)

Ida books it to the main road on the other side of her home to flag down the first car she sees. Thankfully, it doesn't take long, and in a matter of minutes, a group of individuals, including a nurse who lives nearby, are down there comforting the victim as they anxiously wait for an ambulance to arrive. And they're praying it won't be long because the woman's condition is only getting worse. It's obvious she is in severe pain, and through it, she's trying to make words. Some are coherent, some not, but they can make out her name. Dana. By 6:20pm, an officer makes his way to the scene, but unfortunately, the ambulance doesn't arrive for another hour. Once arrived, Ida and the group watch as Dana is whisked away towards Hilo Hospital two hours after Ida found her. It might have been sooner if she wasn't inside a remote area, but it was the type of path you wouldn't even know was there unless you knew. By 8pm, a flurry of people, including paramedics, rushed Dana into the hospital on a gurney. And there in the waiting room is her family. They've been there for about two hours ever since they figured out something was wrong. And now they are watching their Dana, 23 year old Dana Ireland fighting for her life. When detectives speak with Dana's older sister Sandy in the waiting room, they discover Sandy moved to the Big Island a few years earlier and Dana came to visit often. Then only two months prior, Dana decided to stay in Hawaii for good. So for the holidays, Dana and Sandy's parents John and Louise Ireland decided to fly in from Virginia and join them on the Big island for a few weeks. The family says earlier that day, before they were planning on celebrating Christmas Eve, Dana decided to go on a bike ride. So she borrowed her sister Sandy's bike and headed out to her friend Mark's house which is about a seven mile ride. But when Sandy and her boyfriend Jim were driving over to their parents rental house around 5pm they saw something on the side of the road that caught their attention. A crowd of people all gathered around what looked like the scene of an accident. Sandy went from curious to terrified when she recognized the crushed bike lying in the road. It was her. Her bike. The one she had just let Dana borrow a couple hours earlier. Next to it was Dana's wristwatch, the band completely broken, a foot long chunk of blonde hair and a single white athletic shoe still tied. Sandy and Jim rushed to her parents rental which was just minutes away to tell them what they saw and they all headed back to the scene. But when they arrived, Dana's mom Louise saw what was going on, assumed Dana had been involved in some kind of accident. And so the family headed over to the local hospital in case she showed up. But they never imagined she would show up like this. They watch in shock as the doctors do their best to save Dana. But she is just too far gone. A little after midnight on Christmas morning, Dana dies after hours of attempted life saving measures. Her cause of death, exsanguination or blood loss due to multiple traumatic injuries of the head, neck, chest, abdomen and pelvis. In Dana's autopsy report, Dr. Charles Reinhold notes a disturbing amount of injuries. Dana's chest, back, arms, legs and face were covered with abrasions, cuts and bruises. Her collarbone and pelvis were fractured. She had extensive hemorrhaging in her heart, lungs, stomach and bladder. But the doctors find something even more disturbing and which can't be explained by a car accident, a bite mark on her left breast and the presence of semen. So while Dana's family is reeling from her sudden death, police scour not just the one, but the two scenes related to Dana, which are about five miles apart. The first scene is on Kapohokai Drive where Dana's bike was discovered. They find tire impressions in the dirt. They make plaster casts of the tracks and take several pictures of tire marks, including a single deep gouge mark on Kapohokai Drive, which larger double tire tracks lead into. Detectives identify the gouge mark as the point at which the bicycle tire was driven into the road from from the collision. They find Dana's black bicycle seat on the side of the road near the tracks. Once finished at the collision scene, detectives head five miles away to the Waa Waaa fishing trail where Dana had been found. She was about 80 to 90ft off the main road in the bushes just off the right side of the trail. Leaves surrounding her were bloody too, as if she'd been placed or possibly thrown there in an effort to conceal her. Her jean shorts and her missing white Avia tennis shoe are found nearby. But there's more. There's a child's black MacGregor shoe, the left one only, and two white socks stuffed inside. There's also a blue colored T shirt size large, with a print of a station wagon and the Jimmy Z logo, which was a popular brand at the time, especially on the Big Island. Then up the trail about halfway between the road and where Dana was found a black knit adult sock and a red panty size large. Police also find cigarette butts and two Corona beer bottles. Everything gets collected and tagged, but what is at the scene is only part of the story. The question still stands as to how Dana could have ended up there.

Ashley Flowers (27:20)

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Amanda Knox (29:47)

After speaking with her family and witnesses at both crime scenes, authorities try to build a rough timeline of events based on everything they know so far which begins at the home of Mark Evans in Apohika'o at 4.10pm Mark was the friend Dana went to visit on her bike the night of the murder and he told police that while their relationship in the beginning leaned a little towards the romantic side, they were totally platonic. Sometime shortly thereafter, the police speak to a witness who says they saw a woman who looked like Dana passing places called Shacks and Secrets, both local surfing hangout spots. Based on this, authorities determined she was run over at approximately 4:40pm less than half a mile from her parents vacationland rental home, which she was most likely headed back to to for the family's Christmas Eve dinner. Then as she was riding her bike, she was struck in the rear by a vehicle heading in the Makai Direction AKA east towards the sea on Kapohokai Drive, which would indicate that Dana was also traveling in the Makai direction on the right side of the road before someone grabbed her and drove away to. To move her to that isolated area along the trail. There she would endure a nightmare before being left for dead. As detectives continue to work to fill in the pieces, a flurry of calls and leads about trucks, vans and SUVs believed to be in the area flows in from the community. One comes from Eric Carlsman. He lives on the first house on the left on Ililani Road, and he says he was with his girlfriend Karina on Christmas Eve. He tells police he noticed a pickup truck facing southwest at the intersection of Ililani Road and Kapohokai Drive. This was the spot where Dana was hit.

Ken Lawson (31:55)

What color was the truck? Turquoise green. It was. It wasn't aqua color. It was green. It was like a pine and turquoise green mix. Darker color. Let me tell you what kind of wood is over there. And I can tell you. I can tell you any kind of wood that's in the forest and I can tell you if it's straight or I have an eye like a hawk. And right now, you know, I can read the stop right behind the tree over there, you see the stop sign.

Amanda Knox (32:27)

So police are focusing on a truck or van. And this makes sense. The road from Vacationland to the Ocean Trail off Beach Road where Dana was found is barely drivable by a car. It's a tucked away, isolated, unpaved fishing trail of sorts and really only known to the locals in the area. It'd be hard to find otherwise, but obviously they still need more. And fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, there's no shortage of witness accounts. And this is the part where I would have walked you through detectives interviewing each one of them from the day Dana was found. Like Ida Smith, the woman who first found Dana.

Ken Lawson (33:14)

And it wouldn't stop. Help me. Help me. And I said, well, the voice was very faint.

Sponsor (33:19)

That's why I thought it was another girl.

Ken Lawson (33:20)

I heard the cop crying, so I said, I'm coming, you know, just where are you? I stopped looking.

Amanda Knox (33:28)

Or Demian Fierro, who was 10 at the time and was one of the first ones to discover the broken bike in the road.

Ken Lawson (33:36)

There was. There was some stuff in the road, her shoe. There was a bike, of course, some hair, a watch. And me and Rick were actually the first ones on the scene. So we went further down and jumped out and took a look kind of because there was some tire there's. Some tire tracks further down the road. Right where they turned around. You could tell they turned around. So we went home and called. We made the call. We ended up walking back up to the scene. At that time, I was trying to give them as much information that I had. There was nothing more I could do, which I wish, you know, there was, but I had people at school, you know, somehow caught wind of it and they would blame me. Oh, you had something to do with it. You know, it was, it was, it wasn't cool.

Amanda Knox (34:27)

But like I said before, the story we were planning on telling you when we first started investigating in 2023 is a very different one today in 2025. Which means how we tell it to you is also very different because what holds weight now is not the same as then. So instead, in this series, I'll be focusing on what you need to know to understand how we ended up where we are today. How so many lives got tangled up in one of the most devastating and high profile cases to ever hit the Big Island. Coming up on this season of three.

Sponsor (35:11)

There were no winners.

Amanda Knox (35:12)

There were no winners in this entire situation.

Ken Lawson (35:14)

When all this first start happened, I thought, these guys gotta be fucking joking. This isn't joke. You guys gotta come to your senses at some point and figure out that it ain't us. But no, I guess not. It's if you want it, you want it, you're gonna, you're gonna push to have it. So somebody's lying, right? Go back and look. I have the students that don't read the transcripts. Read the police reports. The transcripts aren't going to tell you what's not in evidence, what's not. The transcript's going to tell you what came in the evidence, not all the shit that didn't come in. You have to read the police reports. Go back to the police reports, read them carefully, and that's how you start reinvestigating the case.

Amanda Knox (35:53)

That's next in chapter two, which you can listen to right now.

Ken Lawson (36:17)

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Amanda Knox (37:06)

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