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MURDERED: Jennifer Farber Dulos
01:02:28
When Jennifer Farber Dulos vanished after dropping her five children off at school in New Canaan, Connecticut, on May 24, 2019, all eyes were on her estranged husband, Fotis Dulos. And when investigators found surveillance footage showing Fotis suspiciously stopping at multiple trash cans in a nearby city and throwing things just hours after she disappeared, a massive hunt for evidence kicked off and a conspiracy involving at least two other people began to unfold. Six years later, one suspect is dead, one is in prison and one is awaiting trial… but what exactly happened to Jennifer and where her body is remains a mystery.
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- [00:01]
Britt
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- [01:41]
Ashley Flowers
Hi crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.
- [01:43]
Britt
And I'm Britt.
- [01:44]
Ashley Flowers
And the story I have for you today is a rare example of a murder case going to trial without a body ever being found. When a mother of five disappeared from her Connecticut mansion in May 2019, the search for her made national headlines. And once police see surveillance footage of her husband dumping garbage bags into city trash cans footage a lot of you have probably seen yourselves A murder conspiracy involving at least two other people starts to unravel. And our reporter Taylor was actually boots on the ground during all of it as it was happening. She has spent years with this case, compiling every single thing there is to know about it. So even if you think you've heard it all, you probably haven't until today. And listen closely because there is still work to be done. We may know who's responsible, but the biggest question still remains. Where is Jennifer Farber Doulos? On the morning of Friday, May 24, 2019. Lauren Almeida is as busy as she always was as the full time nanny for the five children in the Dulo Sting family. Her day starts early with texts coming in from her boss, Jennifer Farber Doulos about the kids. They've got two sets of pre teen twins and an eight year old girl to look after. So like managing their calendars was not for the week.
- [03:34]
Britt
Yeah.
- [03:34]
Ashley Flowers
So the mom, Jennifer had handled school drop off that morning, but Lauren had an extra to do to juggle today. She was going to have to pick up four of the five kids from school like midday and drive them an hour away into Manhattan for an orthodontist appointment. Now one of the older girls lucked out, doesn't have an appointment, so she's just going to take the bus to a friend's house after school. So around 11am Lauren heads over to Jennifer's and this place is like a seven bedroom house that Jennifer's mom had recently bought for her and the kids.
- [04:03]
Britt
I'm sorry, seven bedrooms?
- [04:05]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, and seven and a half bathrooms. Like we're talking a bit of a mega mansion. But where they live in Connecticut like this isn't uncommon. New Canaan is in one of the wealthiest counties in the entire country and a lot of these families had like very big money, including Jennifer's. We're talking prep school, trust fund, Wall street kind of money. So when Lauren gets to the house, she's kind of surprised to see Jennifer's Range Rover parked in the garage since Jennifer had told her that she would be taking that SUV to New York today for an appointment of her own. But Jennifer's Chevy Suburban was gone. So Lauren figures she must have had a change of plans or maybe plans went out the window because when she gets inside the house, there are things left behind that make it seem like Jennifer must have maybe left in like a rush. Like first, Jennifer's expensive purse is there on the floor between the mudroom and the kitchen. The mug of tea that Jennifer makes every morning was sitting on the counter alongside the granola bar that she normally eats for breakfast, like unopened. And a 12 pack of paper towel rolls that Lauren stocked in the pantry like the night before is almost completely gone. Like 10 of them have been used, which like at first she kind of figures like, oh, the kids must have spilled something, whatever, kids will be kids. But like alarm bells because what soccer field size cooler of Kool Aid do you have to Spill to use 10 rolls of paper towels? Again, I don't know, it's early kids be kids. She's got a zillion other things on her mind. So she just starts like straightening up the house and then she goes to pick up the kids from school. Now she had texted Jennifer at some point asking if one of the girls could use an iPad for the long car ride. Now she doesn't hear back, which doesn't really concern her. Right? Jennifer's probably at that appointment or whatever and then she's going to meet them actually at the orthodontist appointment. So fine, Lauren texts her a few more times anyway with like a play by play for when she does see her phone. She lets her know their ETA to Jennifer's mom's house where they plan to head first. She lets her know she got there, asks if Jennifer is still going to meet them at the orthodontist. At this point it is like hours that have passed. It's 4pm now and Jennifer hasn't responded to to any of the texts. Like whatever appointment she had she should be done with, right?
- [06:13]
Britt
At least she should be able to like check her phone in all this time, right?
- [06:17]
Ashley Flowers
But again, Lauren just keeps like chugging along. She goes to the kid's orthodontist and while there she tries to finally just call Jennifer, but it goes straight to voicemail. And that is when Lauren starts to panic. Texts are one thing, but Jennifer always answers her phone. So while the kids are in with the orthodontist, she starts calling anyone she can think of who might have heard from Jennifer today. But she's even more concerned to learn that no one has heard from her at all. And that's when she gets an idea. Not something she would normally do, but this is starting to feel like not a normal situation. Lauren checks the iPad that they brought because it's logged into Jennifer's Google and Apple ID so she can actually see Jennifer's Google calendar, see where her appointments were that day. And so once the kids are done at the orthodontist, she takes them back to their grandma's and then she hops in a cab and heads to the address of Jennifer's last appointment. But the receptionist there tells her that Jennifer never showed up. So Lauren calls one of Jennifer's best friends, probably half unsure what to do, half pretty sure she does, but like it doesn't feel real. But with the friend's encouragement, they call police in New Canaan to report her missing. At around 7pm they tell the dispatcher Jennifer is missing. And by the way, dispatcher, this is worst case scenario because Jennifer is In the middle of a very contentious divorce with her children's father, Fotis, who btw, just recently bought a gun. And like, point taken. Police arrive at Jennifer's New Canaan home pretty much immediately. They check all around. I mean, no one is there. There doesn't seem to be any kind of disturbance inside the house. So they head through the garage, which at first glance is all organized, clean as well. But one officer takes a really close look at Jennifer's Range Rover, the one that she was supposed to take to New York, but is still sitting in the garage. And there on the bumper are tiny specks of red blood spatter. So police immediately call for backup. And as they continue to search the garage for more evidence of what happened in it, they find more blood stains. It's on the floor, other parts of the car. But again, we're talking like tiny drops. And it becomes clear to the officers that someone did a very serious cleaning job on this garage.
- [08:40]
Britt
Like a 10 rolls of paper towel cleaning job.
- [08:43]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, I don't know what they used. But police start searching not just the garage, but like the neighborhood, the surrounding areas. And they pretty quickly find Jennifer's black Chevy Suburban abandoned at a place called Waveney park, which is like 10 minutes from her house. According to Rich Cohen's book, Murder in the Dollhouse, the car is backed up against a tree. Gearshift is like stuck in reverse. Doors are locked. And when they look in the windows, they don't see any sign of Jennifer in the vehicle, but they do see, quote, the cleanup of a blood like substance. And it's at this moment when this becomes a full blown missing person searching. And when police question Lauren, she tells them that if something bad happened to Jennifer, there is only one person it could be. Her husband of 14 years, soon to be ex husband, Fotis. And they learn that she and Fotis were years deep into a divorce with no end in sight. And it was, I mean, clearly messy, to put it lightly. I mean, so much so that in Jennifer's divorce filing from two years prior, which would have been in 2017, she described Fotus's behavior as irrational, unsafe, bullying, threatening, and controlling. She also claimed in those same documents that he'd verbally and physically attacked her to the point that she filed for an emergency order for full custody, but that got denied by the courts. Now, right before she filed for divorce, she fled their home with their kids, telling Fotus that she was visiting her dad's grave, which was in upstate New York. But instead, she actually took them to a hotel in New York City and hired bodyguards. Now FOTUS lashed back by accusing her of kidnapping their kids, and they had been at each other's throats ever since in court appearances that were racking up millions of dollars in legal bills for them both. But it wasn't always that way.
- [10:39]
Britt
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- [11:41]
Ashley Flowers
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- [15:53]
Britt
Wait, did he deny the affair when Jennifer confronted him about it?
- [15:56]
Ashley Flowers
No, not at all. Like, he was pretty much like, yeah, no, this is Michelle and actually, would you mind moving out so Michelle and her daughter can move in? What I know. And he's like, you know, you can still come and go as you want. Like everything will be fine. No, same Jennifer's like not having it. And that is around the time that she left with the kids. And Michelle and her daughter, like Florida fully moved into the Farmington house not long after.
- [16:20]
Britt
So just to be clear, are they all sharing a house?
- [16:24]
Ashley Flowers
No. No, no. So this is what I'm saying. So Jennifer, she doesn't go back to live in the Farmington house. She leaves her mom, buys her that other house or whatever. She files for divorce. But the kids were spending a fair amount of time in the Farmington house with Fotis, Michelle and Michelle's daughter. Like instant blended family here. Fotis and Michelle clearly did not care about what was best for the kids. But we know that Fotis did care about money. He's gotten very accustomed to his lavish lifestyle. But now that he and Jennifer were divorcing, his mother in law wanted that couple of million back that they had loaned him to start the business. And it turns out Fotus was another couple of million in debt. So his feet are to the financial fire. And it seems like he was using the kids almost like a pawn at this point. Point, a divorce battle turns into a custody battle that just gets uglier and uglier until Jennifer disappears. And with that comes the possibility of sole custody of the kids, which could mean access to the children's trust fund set up by Jennifer's parents. Two million per kid, that is $10 million. That would take care of his debt, keep his lifestyle up at least for a little bit. So police hear all of this. And at the same time, they've been searching high and low for Jennifer along with Jennifer's loved ones. I mean, even canines have been sent out to track Jennifer's scent. They're doing aerial searches of the woods and ponds nearby. Police are handing out flyers. They know finding her will help tell them what happened. But there is little doubt in anyone's mind about who is behind it. Police are as suspicious of Fotis as any everyone else is. Now Lauren is in pretty constant contact with police and she tells them the next day that Fotis has been texting her since late Friday night and is like dead set on seeing the children, which she says she's not going to let happen until they find Jennifer and they're being taken care of like under close watch at their grandmother's apartment. So the day after Jennifer disappears, police meet briefly with Fotis and weirdly though they don't know why. Police he's sporting a new haircut. Like the dude's got a fully shaved head. And this guy's not one to usually like rock a buzz cut.
- [18:39]
Britt
Are they talking to Michelle too at this time?
- [18:41]
Ashley Flowers
Not yet. Like they have only got eyes for Fotus at this point. But this would be the only time that Fotis ever meets with police. He has his divorce attorney with him, so even this meeting, this one that he does have, is short lived. They don't get anything from him. Like he's not talking in this meeting, though investigators do ask to see his phone and he hands it over, which would turn out to be a mistake for him. Good for everyone else though, because when they do a data dump on the phone, they're able to map out Fotus whereabouts on the day that Jennifer disappeared. And this is where things start getting weird. The data shows that on the day Jennifer vanished, Fotis was in Farmington until about 7pm his phone is moving around the Farmington house, which is like only something you can say about a $4 million mansion, right? Like moving around the house, it's like locking, it's unlocking. He answers a call from a friend in Greece. The phone never leaves the house, which is like all fine and good since police think that Jennifer went missing from her house in New Canaan. But it's always a good reminder to give people about phone data. It shows that your phone was there, not you, right? But after seven, he goes somewhere unusual into downtown Hartford, Connecticut, which is like 25 minutes away from his house to potentially the sketchiest street in the city, Albany Avenue, this is an area of high crime that police know really, really well.
- [20:12]
Britt
What was he doing there?
- [20:13]
Ashley Flowers
Well, that's what detectives are wondering. But again, Botus isn't talking. So what they do is they check their command center that monitors surveillance cameras all, all around Hartford. And they task one lucky analyst to comb through all of the video from that day. Now, it's important to know Fotis has like an entire fleet of vehicles. And he is known to borrow his employees cars whenever he feels like it. But primarily he drives his black Ford Raptor, which is this F150 pickup truck. So this analyst uses software that can pull out footage of specific vehicles from all the footage that they had. And he's able to isolate footage of Fotus's Ford Raptor with a man who looks a lot like Fotus behind the wheel. And he's turning on to Albany avenue at around 7:31pm now, in the bed of his truck, he has got several big black trash bags. So he turns onto a side street which unfortunately doesn't have cameras. He's out of view for about seven minutes. And when he turns back onto Albany Avenue, the surveillance footage shows that Albany, almost all of those trash bags, poof, they're just gone. There's only a few bags left and some other things in the bed of his truck that are hard to make out on video. So police assume that he dumped some of the bags while he was out of camera's view. And it becomes clear that he's dumping whatever it is he's got back there when he starts doing it on camera. Like, no question about it anymore. Surveillance footage shows that Fotis stops, gets out, puts something in a trash can. Two minutes later, he pulls over again on this like, busy road with people all around and puts something else in another trash can. The actual number of stops he makes is hotly debated because again, they're not all caught on camera. But in another video, there is footage of him stopping in front of a restaurant to take what looks like, like almost like a floor mat out of a car. Specifically a Weathertech mattress that, by the way, there are Weathertech mats missing from Jennifer's Suburban. But he takes what looks like this WeatherTech mat out, drags them over to the side of the restaurant, and then he drives a little further down the road. And guess what they spot on one of those cameras. Dude's not alone. During one of their stops, the passenger side door opens and a woman who looks a lot like Michelle leans out, like, touches the ground. It's not clear why. And while she's doing whatever she's doing, Fotis comes over right next to her and slides something down a storm drain. So investigators see on even more surveillance footage that after making their trash runs, Fotis and Michelle go to a Starbucks nearby and they get food and they get frappuccinos.
- [22:58]
Britt
Yeah, you know, totally your usual Friday night errands. Dump evidence, get fraps.
- [23:03]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, the usual. Over the next couple of days, investigators start swarming the local trash processing plants with cadaver dogs. And they also bring in a sewer crew to like, pump out all the water in the storm drain, looking for whatever it was that Fotis was throwing away. And through this all, Fotis still isn't talking. Michelle still hasn't been questioned yet either, by the way. And she's just like going about her weekend. She's getting her hair done. She's going water skiing, of course, on the same pond, by the way, as the cops were literally searching for Jennifer's body in that same week. What? Yeah, but she's not going to be living her best life like that for long because all the searching that investigators are doing is starting to tell a story. A story that doesn't make Fotis or Michelle look very good.
- [23:54]
Britt
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- [26:00]
Ashley Flowers
Police get their first win when they pull up a FedEx envelope from that drain. Like, that's what they find in there. And inside are two Connecticut license plates. At first they look just like regular plates, whatever. But detectives realize that someone is tampered with them. There's tape added to some of like the numbers or letters or whatever, whatever to change its appearance. Like, for example, a D was changed to a B. And when they figure out what the original plate was and they run it, they get a match. They are expired plates registered to FOTUs.
- [26:35]
Britt
How long had he been planning all of this?
- [26:38]
Ashley Flowers
Makes you wonder, right? I mean, like, here's the thing. My dad kept old plates for, like, I don't know what reason, like, to hang in garages. He literally did.
- [26:47]
Britt
Like, I get that.
- [26:48]
Ashley Flowers
But did he have this laying around? Like, it's an interesting tidbit nonetheless. Did he use it because it was something already there or was this something?
- [26:54]
Britt
Did he save it?
- [26:54]
Ashley Flowers
I know because this divorce, remember, has been going on for years now. They find that. But what they find next is the real clencher Police find what was in some of those trash bags. And I think everyone watching this case unfold on the news at the time was terrified that Jennifer, or more likely parts of Jennifer would be in those bags. But when they open them, what they find are two ponchos, sponges, and lots and lots of paper towels, just like the ones missing From Jennifer's pantry. And all of it is covered in blood. There's also a box cutter, zip ties, gloves, a piece of a mop, like.
- [27:38]
Britt
Pretty much a cleanup kit.
- [27:40]
Ashley Flowers
And they also find Jennifer's clothes in these bags. A bra and a long sleeve vineyard vine shirt. And eerily, the shirt had a slogan on it that says, every day should feel this good. These clothes were also drenched in blood. And when I say drenched, I mean drenched in blood.
- [27:58]
Britt
I mean, police have to be thinking the worst at this point.
- [28:01]
Ashley Flowers
They do. Like any hope of finding Jennifer alive is pretty much out the window, Especially when DNA testing comes back and confirms that all of that blood was Jennifer's. And it's her DNA on pretty much everything that they find in the bag, including the zip ties, a sponge, the gloves, and one poncho. But guess whose DNA is on one of the garbage bags. Fotis and Michelle's. And that's enough for investigators. I mean, not enough for murder charges yet, but enough to get them both on hindering prosecution and tampering with evidence in connection with Jennifer's disappearance. So just eight days out from her going missing, they hit both of them with the lesser charges. Investigators are confident that Fotis killed Jennifer by this point, but they need proof. Physical evidence would do. I mean, that would be great, right? But a confession could be even better. And they're hoping that they can get Michelle to flip. So they haven't even talked to her yet still, like, why is beyond me. But now is their time. And to everyone's surprise, Michelle is willing to talk.
- [29:08]
Britt
Did she get an attorney?
- [29:10]
Ashley Flowers
Yes. So after her arrest, she hires a defense attorney, this guy, Andrew bowman. And the both of them sit down for her first interview with detectives. And they sit down for hours that night. But flipping is not what she does. It is full. Tammy Wynette, stand by your man. And she provides Fotis with what she seems to think is a rock solid alibi. According to Michelle, Fotis was at the farmington house with her all morning, Just like his phone data would suggest. She said they took a shower together and had sex. Then she left the house while he stayed back. But don't worry, she can fully account for her time, too, because she said she went to this stop and shop. She can prove it because she took a selfie with, like, this robot thing that drives around looking for people who might be sleeping, stealing, or whatever. And then she saved the receipt for that trip as well. She stopped by a friend's place who she says can vouch for Her. And then she of course, went water skiing. Naturally, from her account, there is no way Fotus was anywhere near Jennifer when Jennifer vanished. Jennifer's house in New Canaan is more than an hour's drive from the house in Farmington. And Michelle conveniently saw Fotus in Farmington like every few hours. That morning she says her and Fotis have lunch together. Then at 3:30, she goes to a property that Fotis is renovating on Mountain Spring Road. And this Mountain Spring Road, this is less than five minutes from their Farmington house. So she says she's going there to clean. At 3:30, Fotis meets up with her later. And then they go on their ride for fraps. The end normal day. And her story seems solid, almost too solid, like rehearsed. And that's because it is. You see, police have been doing methodical searches of each of the properties owned by Fotus Co. And guess what they found at the Farmington house? Some handwritten notes and photocopies of those notes in the trash and then stuffed into a briefcase. And what is written on those pages is stranger than anything I could get away with writing in fiction. The notes they find are different versions of a timeline. Like hour by hour, sometimes down to the minute, of what Fotus and Michelle were allegedly doing the day Jennifer disappeared. And there's a timeline of phone calls that they both made and received that day. They are detailed and they hit every part of what Michelle told police that they both did.
- [31:41]
Britt
And I assume like a little trip to dump evidence isn't on that whole timeline schedule thing.
- [31:46]
Ashley Flowers
Oh, that's definitely not. Like, that's where the written timeline actually ends. And the phone data security footage like, like diverge from the story. According to these notes, they never went to Albany Avenue. They went straight to Starbucks. And listen. Investigators go on to dub these the Alibi scripts. In their eyes, these timelines were Fotis and Michelle's attempt to get their stories straight to account for Fotis whereabouts and to back everything up with receipts and selfies, with stupid robots or whatever and call logs.
- [32:16]
Britt
Like, do they think they pre planned the alibi and were working on like the best version? Or they wrote this after to make sure that they had their stories like all lined up.
- [32:26]
Ashley Flowers
They think they pre planned it and then went and like acted it out. But like, who makes photocopies?
- [32:34]
Britt
I mean, you need multiple copies of the script if everyone's gonna learn their lines.
- [32:38]
Ashley Flowers
That's the thing. Like, I couldn't wrap my head around.
- [32:40]
Britt
Well, and then to keep them, just, like, have them there.
- [32:43]
Ashley Flowers
But per Michelle, she said, that's not why any of it was made. Like, these aren't scripts we didn't photocopy. So everyone, like, had some. Like, this is all a misunderstanding. Okay, so listen. They bring her in again on June 6. They question her about these timelines, about the alibi scripts, whatever you want to call them. And she says, yes, she and Fotus wrote them, but they did it based on his attorney's advice. I guess he told them that they needed to be able to give full accounts of their dates, like on the day Jennifer disappeared, May 24, and then the next day.
- [33:14]
Britt
So why leave out that right on Albany Avenue?
- [33:17]
Ashley Flowers
I know. So she says that to her, it was just a ride to Starbucks. Like, she's like, I didn't leave anything out. I like, I. I said we went.
- [33:26]
Britt
To Starbucks, which is what we did.
- [33:28]
Ashley Flowers
But she's like, I didn't even notice that Fotus was making all these stops. She's like, I was on my phone, I wasn't paying attention. And then I only really looked up when, like that time I opened the door and leaned out and touched the sidewalk. Which she says was to wipe gum off of her finger.
- [33:42]
Britt
So she just, like, didn't notice the multiple times he pulled over in this, like, pretty sketchy area, hauled full trash bags out of the bed of his truck. I mean, he went down, like, a little, like, alley at some point in time.
- [33:54]
Ashley Flowers
That is her story. But Albany Avenue is not the kind of street that you, like, don't notice you're on.
- [34:00]
Britt
Right.
- [34:01]
Ashley Flowers
And the crazy part to me is, like, it's not even on your way to the Starbucks that they went to. And I have to tell you the story really quick. So our reporter, Taylor, she covered this case, I told you at the top, a ton. Like, as it was happening, she actually drove the route herself. And she wrote a front page story in the Hartford Current that this wasn't just a quick detour to dump these bags. This was at least a 36 minute trip, passing the Starbucks that they eventually went to, driving to another town and then looping back around to the Starbucks. And Michelle's attorney at the time was not happy about this headline. He actually, like, stormed up to Taylor in the morning that the story ran, told her it was bs. So it definitely hit a nerve with him.
- [34:43]
Britt
And I feel like, like, shows she was doing the right thing.
- [34:46]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. And like, listen, like, I don't even know what you're mad about. Like, maps be Maps. Like what? Like, you can't argue with that. Anyway, Michelle does tell police at one point that she asked Fotis, why are we here? So, like, at some point, she had to have looked up and been like, yeah. But she says Fotus was like, oh, don't worry about it. And she was like, oh, okay, okay. And listen, like, preliminarily, when they look at her phone data, it seems to line up with her story because, like, while photos, his phone is somewhere in the house. Like, there are parts where, like, her phone is in the house, too, but, like, different parts of the house.
- [35:19]
Britt
Giant house.
- [35:20]
Ashley Flowers
Right. But here's where things start to kind of fall apart. It's hard to stick to the script when you don't have the script in front of you. That's not a script. Whatever. And when they talk to her a second time around, she suddenly can't remember if she actually saw Fotis at the Farmington House after 8am on the day Jennifer disappeared. She now doesn't think they had sex or had lunch together, which, like, were big parts of the story.
- [35:46]
Britt
I would say those are, like, kind of big diversions from what she originally said.
- [35:50]
Ashley Flowers
No. And her excuse is she tells police, like, oh, it's a big house. It's not like she's in his face all the time. But as far as I know, he was there. That's what I meant. Like, I knew he was there, but I didn't necessarily see him. And police aren't buying it. They're done listening to a story that they know isn't true, and they are ready to play hardball. During the second interview, they tell Michelle verbatim that she is the most hated woman in America. And even though they don't know this for sure, they tell her that Jennifer is dead and that Fotis killed her. Detectives also tell her that Fotis had been trying to get back with Jennifer. Like, this part's a lie. We know that's not true. But they're, I think, trying to get under her skin, and I think it works. These interviews are recorded, and you can see that she's distraught, but it still doesn't quite get her to crack. So investigators have to keep digging. And when police find more surveillance videos, this time from a major highway in Connecticut and cameras near Jennifer's house in New Canaan, they're finally able to map out where Fotis really was that morning. And it wasn't at the Farmington house with Michelle.
- [37:08]
Britt
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- [38:15]
Ashley Flowers
So remember how I mentioned that Fotus was known to just like borrow his employees cars? Well it turns out that's exactly what he did. The morning Jennifer disappeared. He took a red Tacoma pickup truck that belonged to his project manager, this guy, Pavel Gumieni. It was parked at the Farmington house cause that's where Fotus like ran his business out of like one wing of the house. So he was able to take it like right from there that morning. And when police zero in on that truck using surveillance footage from the rest stop on the highway, they watch a man who looks like Fotus. But again, this is where I want to point out like but with a shaved head. And I couldn't figure out what the shaved head was about. But when you look at his project manager, his project manager has a shaved head.
- [38:59]
Britt
So he is. So he shaved his head to look more like the project manager who would.
- [39:03]
Ashley Flowers
Normally be driving that car. Maybe. I don't know. So. So they see him. They see. But it looks like Fotus again, just with a shaved head. Drive 70 miles toward New Canaan. Then security footage from a local school bus shows that same truck in New Canaan at 7:57am Parked at a nearby spot which should sound familiar. Waveney park, where Jennifer's Suburban was found, missing its WeatherTech map. Right now we don't know how long the Tacoma had been parked there by that time that the school bus caught that footage but what investigators find next indicates that it was probably parked there before 7:30, because an analyst watching the surveillance video also spots something else. There is a wheel of a bicycle poking out of the bed of the Tacoma. And it all comes together for police when a security video from one of Jennifer's neighbors shows a man in a hooded sweatshirt riding a bike from the direction of Waveney park right into Jennifer's neighborhood that morning at around 7:30am Then that same camera shows Jennifer getting home from dropping the kids at school, pulling her Suburban into the garage where police now believe Fotis was lying in wait for her. Nothing actually gets captured on cameras for a while after that, because this is when police believe that Fotus was killing Jennifer and scrubbing the garage clean. And then the next thing we see is at 10:25am that's when Jennifer's Suburban drives out of their neighborhood and toward Waveney park, presumably with Jennifer's body inside.
- [40:41]
Britt
And can cameras pick up who's driving the vehicle?
- [40:45]
Ashley Flowers
No, no. It's not clear enough who was driving the Suburban that time, and there aren't any cameras in the park. But police believe that Fotus moves Jennifer's body from her Suburban into the Tacoma that he was driving, abandons the Suburban, and then drives back onto that property that he was renovating in Farmington to meet Michelle, who, remember, was like, conveniently at the property to like, clean that day. And this is when more neighborhood security cameras come into play. Botus and Michelle, mostly Michelle, are captured on a neighbor's camera going back and forth between their house and. And the property that they're cleaning. And then another property that Fotis is working on nearby. Police question Michelle about these trips, and she tells them that she went to the property to clean it because Fotus Co. Had scheduled a last minute showing. They're just trying to like, sell this house. So she got there, went back to go get a broom, and then drove back. And then when she returned, she had everything she needed, including sponges, paper towels, black trash bags, a lot of the same things that they found in the evidence dump on Albany Avenue.
- [41:47]
Britt
Right.
- [41:47]
Ashley Flowers
But weird girl that you're like, super helpful this one specific day because a project manager for Fotus Co. Told police that he didn't remember Michelle ever cleaning a single one of their properties before, ever. Like, first time for everything. And cleaning apparently put her in the mood because she also tells police that she and Fotis did something sexual up against the Tacoma in the driveway. Now, to this day, no one knows where and when Fotus apparently got rid of Jennifer's body. There is a chance that Fotus got rid of it or handed it off to someone in New Canaan or somewhere in between New Canaan and Farmington. I mean, they've got some surveillance footage of him leaving Jennifer's house, heading back to Farmington, arriving at the house that he was renovating. But there are, like, gaps in the footage where he could have pulled off somewhere that police don't know about. The thing I keep coming back to is there is also a chance that her body was still inside the Tacoma in that moment that Fotis and Michelle were up against the truck, which is, like, twisted and sick to think about. So police search all of Fotus's work properties, including this property that they're renovating on Mountain spring Road, and they even search the woods around it, Peering down into a septic tank that they find on the property. They don't find anything of note except for they do make note of a black porch that is parked in this, like, super crowded garage at one of the houses. And they make note of this one because they see that the seats of this car are missing. And those seats become a key piece of evidence that helps investigators, because those seats aren't actually missing. They're just not in the Porsche. Those seats are now in Pavel's Tacoma that Fotis was driving the day Jennifer disappeared. And police find this out days later when they pull Pavel over and he tells them what went down. He says that Fotis took the Tacoma without him asking. On the day that Jennifer disappeared. He had it until the afternoon when Pavel met Fotis at the Mountain spring property. Fotis didn't even want to give it back, Even offered to let him use his Raptor for the weekend. But Pavel's like, dude, just like, give me my truck back. Like, what are you doing? And Fotis finally agrees, But Michelle has the keys.
- [44:08]
Britt
So convenient.
- [44:09]
Ashley Flowers
So they call her to bring them back. And Pavel does take the truck. But then for the next few days, Fotis is, like, blowing him up, Calling and calling, telling Pavel that he needs to get new seats in the Tacoma. Fotis says he'll buy them for him or give him the seats from his Porsche. But Pavel is like, dude, like, no, I'm okay. It's a work truck. Like, why would I be getting new seats? But Fotis pushes, and while doing so, he tells Pavel not to text about the seats, Using the word seats to like, we should speak in A code and call it hardware.
- [44:43]
Britt
Okay, this is all bizarre. Is Pavel living under a rock? Like, does he know this man's wife is missing? And Fotus is, like, the prime suspect.
- [44:53]
Ashley Flowers
So it has to become suspicious to him because I don't know what he was thinking at first. But eventually, Fotus changes his tune, and he basically says, okay, listen, I saw Jennifer that week, like, the week before she disappeared. So police might find one of her hairs in the truck, and that wouldn't be good for me, but by the way, Pavel, you better not say anything, because he's quick to remind him, like, you aren't a U.S. citizen. Like, this dude's from Poland, and if you get entangled in a missing persons case, it could be really bad for you. So Pavelkis freaked out. He does switch the seats in his Tacoma for the Porsche seats, like Fotis tells him to. But here's the kicker. He doesn't get rid of the Tacoma seats. He tells police that he kept them just in case they wanted them. And of course they want them.
- [45:44]
Britt
Yeah.
- [45:44]
Ashley Flowers
So he works out a deal with detectives. He gets immunity in exchange for his cooperation.
- [45:50]
Britt
Immunity for what?
- [45:52]
Ashley Flowers
Well, I mean, technically, he tampered with evidence. Like, even if he didn't fully know it was evidence. So maybe that. Some people have speculated maybe he was helping Fotis at Jennifer's house at the time of the murder or, like, somewhere in New Canaan after. I mean, remember, there were two bloody ponchos, which could have meant that Fotis had an accomplice for the actual murder. Or maybe he just doubled up on ponchos to avoid. I don't know.
- [46:19]
Britt
Right, but if they put Fotis at the house based on video footage of him riding the bike, wouldn't they know if someone else was there or not?
- [46:28]
Ashley Flowers
Not necessarily. So, like, even though they've got, like, footage, right, of the Tacoma and all of that, there are blind spots in the neighborhood where someone could come in and not get caught on camera. So it's. There's no proof that there was anyone else involved. It's just.
- [46:40]
Britt
There's no proof that there wasn't.
- [46:42]
Ashley Flowers
Right. And I don't know how far they dug into Pavel, because the deal that he made with them for immunity, it kind of, like, halts any investigation into him. But to be clear, immunity deals aren't usually on the table when murder charges are involved. So, like, wait, so did they ever.
- [46:59]
Britt
Do a data dump on Pavel's phone?
- [47:02]
Ashley Flowers
Well, no. They did so. And this is why, like, again, I think there's like, this theory of did he help? Or whatever. Like, it actually. His phone put him in New Canaan, but he was at a legitimate construction site in that town that he was. He was, like, working for Fotus, but not at Jennifer. It never puts him at Jennifer's house. Okay, so anyways, he does this deal with them. He gives them the seats, and they light up when they are sprayed with luminol and, like, and then the black light goes over to, like, test for the presence of blood. So then they send the Tacoma seats off for, like, official DNA testing. Right? Like, this is a good indicator, but we've gotta prove that it's. It is blood and it is hers.
- [47:36]
Britt
Right?
- [47:36]
Ashley Flowers
But that's not all they learned from Pavel. He also tells them about a conversation he heard a few months back. Like, before Jennifer disappeared, when Fotus was talking about putting down their family dog. I guess Michelle chimed into this conversation, calling Jennifer A. And said that she should be buried in the backyard next to the dog. So clearly, like, Michelle, tons of bad blood there, right? Like, it's not even. Like, we can just say Fotus didn't like Jennifer. Like, Michelle is clearly, like, feeding into that too. The thing is, though, they've searched the yards. Jennifer is not there. So where is Jennifer?
- [48:17]
Britt
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- [49:19]
Ashley Flowers
While they're waiting for the DNA results from the seats, Fotus and Michelle are both out on bond. There's still no body, and so there's still no murder charge. And Fotus is gearing up for a fight. Remember, he has brought in his divorce attorney already. But he's got this other guy as well. His longtime friend, sometimes business attorney, Kent Mahoney. This dude's on speed dial for him, but he also, at this point, decides to hire a criminal attorney. And he doesn't just hire anybody. He hires Norm Pattis, whose client list includes Alex Jones. You know, the guy that claimed that Sandy Hook was a hoax. So, like, not a great guy. Yeah, you are the company you keep. And as if this case wasn't enough of a media spectacle already, Norm takes it to another level and he tries dragging our girl, Gillian Flynn, into this hot mess.
- [50:09]
Britt
Rude, right?
- [50:10]
Ashley Flowers
I know you have. But I don't know if all the crime junkies have read Gone Girl or seen the movie.
- [50:14]
Britt
Both, obviously.
- [50:15]
Ashley Flowers
You know the one where Rosamund pike plays a woman who leaves her husband and in doing so, methodically frames him for her murder. Well, that is what Norm says happened here. He claims that he read a manuscript that Jennifer wrote with a similar plot and says that Jennifer Gone girl herself to try and ruin Fotis's life. No one is buying that. Her family and friends know that she would never leave her kids. And police are very clear that they are looking for a body, not a diabolical wife. The only diabolical people we have here are Fotus and Michelle.
- [50:52]
Britt
Where do people find these attorneys? Like, I get it. Like, everyone needs a good defense, right? But in my book, there's like a line, right? You have this guy throwing out these wild scenarios that victim blame this woman who's already dead.
- [51:07]
Ashley Flowers
I know. And then you had like, his lawyer, Fotus, original lawyer, who's like, I guess in my mind, when they, like, create the alibi scripts at some point.
- [51:16]
Britt
I mean, you're already off the rails there.
- [51:17]
Ashley Flowers
Well, yeah, but like. And if they're like, well, my lawyer told me to write it. Did. Like, did you? Are you saying like. I agree. And we can also lump Fotus's lawyer friend Kent in all of this, too, because get this. So they find that Kent had helped start a gun club in this nearby town years earlier. He left the club, but interestingly, rejoined it a couple of months before Jennifer vanished. Now, here's the really interesting part. In early June, two members of that same gun club remember that they saw something weird and they decide to call police. They say that they were walking through a wooded area of the club just a few days before Jennifer vanished, when they saw this large pit in the ground. A six foot pit that looked a lot like a grape Someone had tried to hide it. There are, like, two grates over it, branches, leaves, like, trying to camouflage it. But when they look inside, like, they moved it all. Nothing was there. Just, like a tarp and two bags of lime. So knowing that he has this connection to the gun club, this weird thing happened at the gun club, but he also has a connection to Fotus. The police start looking into Kentucky a little more closely.
- [52:29]
Britt
Okay, did they go look at this hole?
- [52:33]
Ashley Flowers
They did. It seemed like someone had tried to cover it up even more after news broke about this discovery. Like, it had conveniently been filled back in by the time that state police went to check it out. And then when they tested the area, there was no evidence that there were ever human remains buried there. But their investigation into Kent certainly didn't stop. Because as it turns out, Kent was also in the middle of a very contentious divorce. He had actually been charged with raping his wife, a charge that has since been dropped. But his wife had a protective order against him. Though police learned that Kent was still trying to contact her through Fotus. And since Norm is bringing up plots from works of fiction, maybe there is another one that we should talk about. I feel like we talked about this before, like a little Strangers on a train situation. Police begin to connect the dots. Both of these men had very tumultuous relationships with their ex wives, or soon to be ex wives or current wives, whatever, and reasons to want those wives gone. Police records show that investigators begin to suspect that Kent may have also been involved in Jennifer's disappearance.
- [53:41]
Britt
And is there any specific evidence tying him to her disappearance? Or just like, this weird hole at his gun club and his connection to faux dads.
- [53:50]
Ashley Flowers
So his name is also mentioned in the Alibi scripts. According to Fotus. Michelle's timelines, Fotus and Kent met at the Farmington house that morning, which, again, would place Fotus in Farmington, not New Canaan. And when police first asked Kent about this, he said that he never knew of any meeting. But then when they asked him a second time, he said they did have a meeting scheduled there that morning. But Fotus never showed up. He's like, oh, I came. I waited for, like, an hour. I gave up. And he said he didn't talk to Fotis, but oops, like, his phone is broken. He fell down the stairs the day after Jennifer vanished and broke it and also, like, hit his head. So, like, ah, my memory is kind of fuzzy. I can't be certain.
- [54:30]
Britt
Series of Unfortunate events.
- [54:32]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. So broken phone and amnesia or not, police are able to pull his cell records and see that he did talk to Fotis on May 24 after all, while Fotis was on Albany Avenue dumping evidence. So police interview Michelle again with this new information, and she changes her story again. At this point, she's done protecting Fotis because they're not even dating anymore. So she is ready to tell what seems to be closer to the truth. Remember, she said that she wasn't sure if she saw Fotis at the Farmington house that morning his wife vanished. Or at least that was her second version of events. Well, now she says she never saw him there. She's sure of it. And remember how his phone was in Farmington all morning and answered that call from his friend in Greece? Well, Michelle admits that was actually her. She answered the call, which, by the way, was planned in advance. And she says this time that she wasn't alone. Kent was at the Farmington house, and he directed her to answer the call. And she says that when she was clear cleaning the mountain spring house, Fotis handed her a paper towel with these big brown stains on them, and she put them into the garbage bag. She said that she thought that Fotis just like spilled coffee or something.
- [55:48]
Britt
I'm sorry. Coffee, blood, Huge difference.
- [55:51]
Ashley Flowers
I know. But I think this is her way of explaining why her DNA is probably on the trash bag with blood evidence in it. And police actually figure out that dumping those trash bags wasn't the only way the couple was getting rid of evidence. Security cameras are the unsung hero in this case because even more surveillance video captures Fotis driving Pavel's red Tacoma again, five days after Jennifer vanishes, this time to a car wash. And it turns out replacing the seats wasn't enough for Fotus. Like, he wanted to deep clean this vehicle, too. So he dropped the truck off at a car wash, paid cash to get full detailing, and he has to leave it there for a while. But Michelle followed him there and picked him up. So that's how she knows about this. She's telling them about this now. Police think this was another attempt by Fotis to destroy evidence with Michelle's help.
- [56:41]
Britt
Right.
- [56:42]
Ashley Flowers
So on September 4th, Fotis gets hit with more hindering and tampering charges. So does Michelle, and she turns herself in the next day. And while Michelle is starting to cooperate, Fotis definitely is not. He again gets out on bail and starts doing interviews. On one TV hit, he wishes Jennifer and her family happy holidays. Like he is fully Keeping up this facade that he thinks she's still alive out there, trying to frame him.
- [57:09]
Britt
Wait, where are the kids during all this?
- [57:12]
Ashley Flowers
Jennifer's mom has full custody by this point, and they at least have Lauren. She, like, stays on as their nanny, so they've got some semblance of stability still. But, like, dude, I don't even know. Like this. Like, we talk. We've done cases like this before where it's like, I don't know how your world isn't just, like, so raw, like, upside down. Upside down, Right. So I don't know what they're thinking about the investigation or their dad or, like, what their grandparents are telling them. But the investigation is moving on. And after months, police finally feel that it's time to upgrade the charges. On January 7, 2020, Fotis gets charged with murder, felony murder, and kidnapping in Jennifer's disappearance. And Michelle and Kent are charged with conspiracy to commit murder. And it's in their arrest warrants that police lay out exactly what they think happened to Jennifer. Police say that Fotus woke up early on May 24. He went and grabbed Pavel's Tacoma with his childhood racing bike in the bed and drove to New Canaan. He parked at the Waveney park, rode his bike to Jennifer's, somehow got into her garage, and then laid in wait. Jennifer came home from dropping off the children at school, opened the garage, drove in, closed the garage door, and then based on the blood spatter, it seems like Jennifer might have been, like, just about to walk into her door, her back turned when Fotus attacked from behind, they think. Now, it's still unclear exactly how Jennifer died because her body is still missing, but it seems like Fotis struck Jennifer, caused her to fall, and become incapacitated. The ME Was confident that she suffered non survivable wounds based on the amount of blood that they found in all of the evidence that was dumped. And I don't know when she died. Like, that's not clear. But Fotis spent hours cleaning up that garage. He even went into the house, took her paper towels, and left behind one spot of Jennifer's blood mixed with a trace of his own DNA on her kitchen faucet and then another tiny DNA sample on her doorknob. Then police believe that he zip tied her by her ankles and wrists and then put her and his bike into her Suburban, drove back to the park, where he either transferred her body to the Tacoma or did something else with it, maybe gave it to someone else to dispose of, and then drove back to Farmington. Michelle, police say, knew about it all along and helped establish an alibi, helped get rid of evidence. Kent, they allege, did the same as part of a scheme for the two men to help each other get rid of their wives. Now, despite a $6 million price tag on his bail, Botus makes bond, bankrolled by another woman who has moved in with him, this friend named Anna Curry, who forks over a large sum of cash. Anna, girl, I know I could do an entire series on, like, wags of killers. It is truly unbelievable to me. But, like, I don't know their arrangement. Again, like, friend, whatever it is, it doesn't last long. You see, there was an issue with the bond. So Fotis was scheduled for a bail hearing on January 30, and he was expected to be going to jail for the long haul after this. Well, the morning that Fotis is supposed to appear in court, media have, like, swarmed his Farmington house hoping to catch sight of him. They're, like, waiting. They're waiting. He's not coming out. So when court martials realize that Fotus wasn't on his way to court, where he's supposed to be, they make their way over to his house. Remember, this is, like an enormous place. It has this long driveway, so most of his cars aren't even visible from the road. But when investigators get closer, they see that there in the garage is Fotis's raptor. And inside is Fotis, barely clinging to life. First responders pull him out. They start cpr, a scene that is captured on video by news helicopters. He's eventually airlifted to a hospital in the Bronx and put on life support until his children can come a few days later and say goodbye. And later, the very day that they came to see him, Fotus is probably pronounced dead. He had poisoned himself with carbon monoxide. Inside the home, they found a suicide note that says he couldn't serve another day for something he didn't do. And he also writes that Michelle and Kent are innocent. Now, this doesn't stop anything else that's moving forward. Michelle and Kent are still facing trials. There's no easy out for them. With delays from the pandemic and endless pretrial motions from their defense attorneys. Their cases take years to get to a courtroom. So from 2020 to 2023, they're both out on bond, sometimes with ankle monitors, like, maybe, sometimes not. Michelle is just, like, living her life in Miami, Gets permission from the court to travel as she pleases. Kent, at one point Tried to remove his own ankle monitor, and then he petitioned the court to have it removed, saying that, like, it's not fair because he wants to go ice skating and he can't fit ice skates over his ankle bracelet. Like, dude, priorities.
- [62:19]
Britt
You're charged with plotting a murder for real. Maybe don't worry about going ice skating right now.
- [62:24]
Ashley Flowers
Jury selection for Michelle's trial started in October of 2023. It was hard to find an unbiased jury. Like I said at the top, like, this was making national headlines, but they do. And that same month, a judge legally declares Jennifer dead. Even before Michelle's trial began, it was clear what her defense was going to argue. And I bet you can't even guess it because it's not the gone girl thing. They say that Michelle didn't understand English.
- [62:53]
Britt
Wait, what?
- [62:55]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, to be fair, English is not Michelle's first language. She was raised in South America. Her first language is Spanish. But we know Michelle speaks English. All of her police interviews are in English.
- [63:08]
Britt
Yet you've never brought that up before.
- [63:10]
Ashley Flowers
Exhibit A. I'm not saying you were lying. I'm just saying that the information is now coming forward that you didn't really know what you were saying.
- [63:17]
Britt
You did know.
- [63:18]
Ashley Flowers
So when he was walking around the property where you guys were, did you really see what he was doing or.
- [63:24]
Britt
No. I saw him fix the ribbons. There are, like, pink ribbons that he covers so people don't step. Because when they do the open houses, people park in the grass, and he gets upset.
- [63:37]
Ashley Flowers
Did you see him for a handful.
- [63:39]
Britt
Of hours or just a few minutes? I wasn't there. I wasn't there three hours. I was just there for a period of time. I went inside to clean, and I actually was upset because I'm like, I don't want to clean this house. But I always get upset. I get grumpy doing something that I don't want to do.
- [63:56]
Ashley Flowers
Okay. And I went up.
- [63:58]
Britt
I saw the.
- [63:58]
Ashley Flowers
But still, her attorney is adamant that Michelle never should have been interviewed in English. He says the case should be thrown out. And Michelle is. She eventually gets locked into this defense. Like, she actually uses an interpreter throughout the trial and only speaks in Spanish in court, even when speaking to her family. When the trial starts In January of 2024, prosecutors plan to prove that Michelle not only knew she was helping get rid of evidence on Albany Avenue, but that she plotted with Fotis to kill Jennifer. The trial lasts months until March 1, when a jury finally finds Michelle guilty on the charge of conspiracy to commit murder. And Charges of hindering a prosecution, tampering with evidence, and conspiring to tamper with evidence. She gets sentenced to 14 and a half years in prison. And that is where she is now, appealing her conviction. Michelle has filed a habeas petition to get released, arguing that her rights were violated and that her conviction should be overturned. And we reached out to her attorney for comment and he gave us a brief explanation on what that petition means generally. Basically, Michelle is arguing that she was led astray by her first lawyer when he gave her bad advice to sit down with police for like multiple interviews. And by the way, at some point, Michelle was arrested again, but during her trial for contempt of court. And so she's also like, awaiting a trial on that separate charge. Now, all these years later, Kent, that dude is still waiting to face a jury. So he's out on bond, but just has been like, consistently listed as on the trial list without a start date scheduled, which I was like, I couldn't understand. I've never seen before. So our reporter Taylor has heard from insiders at the courthouse that Kent likely won't go to trial and that maybe a plea deal may be on the way. Now, the whole time, Kent's lawyer maintains his innocence too. Says he never colluded with FOTUS or dug a human sized grave in the gun club property or whatever. So we'll see if anything ever comes of that or if it's like a forever waiting game. When our reporter Taylor spoke to Jennifer's friends, they described her as a wonderful mother who loved her children. But she was much more than just a mother. Like, she was a friend, she was a daughter. She was an academic, a writer. And her friends want to make sure that that part isn't forgotten. You guys. Jennifer took every step she could to safely leave her husband with resources most people don't have. Every year in the US More than a thousand women are killed by intimate partners. And women are at the highest risk of being killed by when they leave their abusers. The statistics are so high that Jennifer isn't even the only woman named Jennifer in Connecticut to be murdered by an estranged spouse. In 2007, Jennifer Magnano was shot dead by her husband on the front steps of her home in Terraville, Connecticut, when she was required to come back to the state for a custody hearing despite being super afraid because she knew her husband was dangerous. Together, those two Jennifers are the namesake of Jennifer's Law, a domestic violence legislation that extends access to protective orders to women who are victims of coercive control. It is terrifying. And what is even scarier is that many states still don't offer protections to victims of that type of abuse. We're going to provide some resources in the show notes for more information on this and how you can get involved and change that. Because, you guys, abuse isn't just physical abuse. It is important to note not just like, like the signs of it, what to look for, not even in your own relationships, but in the relationships of people you love. So we're going to also provide resources to anyone who is or maybe knows someone who finds themselves in a situation like Jennifer's. You guys, we literally get emails from listeners every week who tell us that they finally left for good because of a story that they heard on our show. And maybe today that's you. Like, you know the warning signs or you can feel it. You're trying to convince yourself that's other people, it's not you. Your partner's gonna change or yes, they hurt you, but they would never kill you. Maybe it's even better in this very moment, but how many times has it been better before? And then it got bad again and then it got even worse. On average, it takes people seven times to leave for good. But you're not guaranteed seven opportunities. Leaving is not easy, but it is the only way you get out alive. I don't want to have to tell your story. One day, Jennifer's kids lost both of their parents in one fell swoop. Jennifer's children have rarely spoken publicly, but when they all gave victim impact statements at Michelle's sentencing, they looked right at her. And they each looked, begged her, a woman they once trusted, to finally tell them where their mom is. And that's the piece of this solved case that investigators still need help with. If you or anyone you know knows anything about the whereabouts of Jennifer Farber Doulos or any details about her disappearance, the location of her remains, please email Cold Caset. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com.
- [69:37]
Britt
And you can follow us on Instagram @crimejunkiepodcast.
- [69:40]
Ashley Flowers
We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Sam Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve.
- [70:28]
Britt
Psoriatic arthritis? Symptoms can be unpredictable.
- [70:31]
Ashley Flowers
I had joint pain and I couldn't.
- [70:34]
Britt
Move like I used to. I needed relief. I got Cosentyx.
- [70:39]
Ashley Flowers
It helped me move better. Cosentyx Secukinumab is prescribed for people 2 years of age and older with active psoriatic arthritis. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweatshirts, chills, muscle aches or cough had a vaccine or planned to. Or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentyx or cosentyx.com.
- [71:23]
Britt
Ask.
- [71:23]
Ashley Flowers
Your dermatologist about Cosentyx.
- [71:29]
Britt
Okay Pilates board meeting and find new.
- [71:31]
Ashley Flowers
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