Britt (3:43)

Hey, crime junkies, it's Britt. And I'm jumping in here because post recording this episode, some news happened. As I'm sure you all know, a verdict has since been reached in the Delphi case and Richard Allen has been found guilty on all counts. Though there's some mixed feelings about this one, the jury felt like there was enough presented to convict him. So that's where we're at today. But like Ashley said, verdict aside, all we had hoped for was some type of closure for the families by the end of all of this. Of course, this conviction won't give them Abby and Libby back, but hopefully they've found at least some of the answers they've been searching for. Answers that unfortunately not every family gets in seven years or 10 years or even a lifetime. But that doesn't mean we should ever stop fighting for them. So let's jump back into today's story where justice is still yet to be served.

Ashley Flowers (5:08)

Heather Collins is running errands on a hot Friday in July of 2012. Friday the 13th, in fact. But she's eager to get home and relieve the babysitter, AKA Grandma, her mom, Wilma. She's got her hands full. Heather's got four kids, and Wilma's also got her granddaughter from her other daughter, Misty. Heather's also hustling home because as she told reporters Nicole Agee and Erin Hepker with kcrg, she has promised one of her daughters, Elizabeth, that they would go out that afternoon to get invitations for her ninth birthday party. So when she pulls in the driveway and walks in ready to let Grandma clock out, she expects Elizabeth to be there waiting. But Wilma says that she's on a bike ride with Misty's daughter, lyric. Lyric is 10, so the two are like inseparable. And it's not weird that the two went off on a ride Together. But it is weird that they haven't been back yet. Wilma told them to be back soon, but it's been like over an hour by this point. But, you know, Wilma didn't panic for the same reason Heather is doing her best now not to panic. They live in this tiny, safe suburb of Waterloo, Iowa, called Evansdale. Everybody knows everybody, and people look out for each other. The girls know a ton of kids in the neighborhood. Elizabeth is a chatterbox, so they likely just ran into some friends. They lost track of time. So Heather heads back out to drive and search for them, sure that the girls are just gonna pop up at any moment. But the thing is, they don't. Misty shows up after getting off work a little after one to get Lyric. They still aren't home. And before long, Heather's husband, Drew, gets home too. Still no sign of the girls. And by now this is when Heather is panicking. According to more reporting by Hepker and Agee, Drew suggests that they go knock on some doors, start looking around even more, check the neighborhood, playgrounds, whatnot. But each door they knock on, it is the same. We haven't seen them. They haven't been by here. Not here. Like, have you checked there? And at a certain point, they feel like they've checked everywhere. And there is no sign of these girls or their bikes. So at 2:48, Heather walks to the Evansdale Police Department to report the girls missing, right to the Chief of Police himself, Chief Kent Smith. And Chief Smock sends a couple of officers to the Collins house to get more details, do a quick search, making sure the girls aren't hiding or sleeping in the house somewhere. And when they're confident they're not, a ground search gets underway. Sometime between 4 and 5, Chief Smock swings by the Collins house, where the family's been trying to sit tight because a firefighter found something, two bikes about a mile away at Meyers Lake, and he wants Drew to come with him to ID the bikes. As soon as Drew sees them, his stomach drops. They are definitely Lyric and Elizabeth's. They're on this tiny peninsula that kind of juts out into the lake. And the gate that should be locked, like, should be shut to, like, block off the peninsula is wide open, which is how it was when the bikes were found.

Britt (8:12)

Do the girls normally come out to this lake?

Ashley Flowers (8:14)

No, not on their own. But, like, you know, there's a first for everything, right? Like, if they did that, though, they're worried now that maybe the girls came out to the lake to swim It's a hot July. Summer. Summer day. Maybe they went too deep or who knows? But, like, now they have this whole lake that they have to search.

Britt (8:31)

Is there anything there with the bikes? Like, their shoes? I mean, they wouldn't wear their shoes to go swimming, like, any of their stuff.

Ashley Flowers (8:37)

There is nothing there at the bikes, but that's no reason to stop. Chief Smock jumps on his radio, tells the fire department to bring out the search boat to drag this lake. And meanwhile, Drew, like, I mean, I'd be in the same boat. I don't want to wait for anyone. I'm just going to start looking. And that's what he does. He starts looking nearby, because in his mind, like, there's got to be something else here, some sign or hint or clue about where the girls went or what they were even doing out here. And so he wanders up onto the bike trail that actually surrounds the lake, which has this tall metal fence along both sides. And as he's walking, something on the other side of the fence catches his eye. It's almost like hidden in the tall grass, but there's this flash of blue. And when he gets close enough to see what it is, he pulls out his phone, he takes a picture, and he sends it to Heather for confirmation. Is he really seeing what he thinks he's seeing? Maybe he's misremembering, but he's not. That blue thing is a Hannah Montana purse that no doubt belongs to Elizabeth. And Heather tells reporters that in that moment when she gets this picture and she sees that purse, she knew that the girls were gone. They end up retrieving the purse. Elizabeth's cell phone is found inside, putting any question about whether it was hers to rest. And everything kicks into high gear after that. In, like, a matter of minutes. Volunteer searchers, like the people of Evansdale and beyond come out in droves. All the parents get out there, too. Heather and Drew and Misty, along with Lyric's dad, Dan, who is actually separated from Misty at the time. And while the lake is being dragged, divers go in as well. And listen, Meyers Lake isn't massive, but it's not a glorified neighborhood pond, either. It's 27 acres, big enough to boat on and big enough to have a little island, like, in the middle. So when the parents see the divers coming back after just, like, an hour, they're like, what? There's. What the.

Britt (10:42)

Like, there's no way that they searched this entire lake in an hour.

Ashley Flowers (10:45)

In an hour, Exactly. And that's not the only moment of tension between the authorities and the families. Misty actually describes this moment in a Max documentary that was done by Dylan Sires. She says there's this moment when she asks the cop, like, who's actually searching the island in the middle of the lake. And the cop is like, kind of, she says, super dismissive, like. Kind of like, mind your own business thing. Like, we'll get to it when we get to it. And this upsets Misty so much that she's like, well, if you're not going to get to it now, I will. And fully clothed. And there's actually local news footage of this because they're out there. By this time, her and one of the dads just start walking again, fully clothed into the water, out to the island. If investigators can't get to it, they will swim out there to do it.

Britt (11:31)

Themselves, you know, if you want something done right.

Ashley Flowers (11:34)

And that's what they did. But they don't find anything on the island now, even though the ground searches are going to go on through the night. By 9 or 10, investigators tell all of the parents, like, you should head home. Just get some rest. But they don't want to because they feel like even though the searching might continue, they're worried that they might be focused on the wrong place. Like, all of the focus is on the lake. And the parents aren't convinced that that's where the girls actually are.

Britt (12:02)

Honestly, I was going to stop you and say same, like, why would Elizabeth's purse be on the fence on the other side, like, the opposite direction of the lake?

Ashley Flowers (12:10)

I know.

Britt (12:10)

This is like a swimming accident.

Ashley Flowers (12:12)

I know. So that night, Drew calls Chief Dan Trelka of the Waterloo pd and Chief Trelka, he gets it. His gut tells him that there's more going on here than a couple of girls who, like, swam and maybe accidentally drown. And if he's right about that, no number of volunteers searching in and around the lake is going to get the girls home. So that night, he notifies the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, and the FBI gets notified as well. Now, there isn't, like, an FBI field office in this tiny town of Evansdale, or even in that region. Not even in the state, actually. But Nicole Agee and Aaron Hepker report that by coincidence, the FBI already had loads of agents in that area working a fraud investigation. So they redirect a bunch of them to Evansdale, and search efforts get off to a more robust start. The next morning, investigators from both DCI and the FBI are there, along with investigators from Evansdale pd, the Waterloo PD and the Blackhawk County Sheriff's Office. Now the effort to drag the lake and the ground search is all continuing. Like they still got to check the box, which I get. But they search it all the way through Sunday and nothing in that lake turns up or anywhere else. And by that point, people on the ground have also covered an area of 12 square miles, but there is just nothing. They even get so desperate that they drain the lake at one point, but it's in vain. That is not where the girls are. DCI and FBI agents focus in on canvassing and conducting interviews, starting with the families. Nothing about Heather and Drew raises any flags, but Misty and Dan seem to be another story.

Britt (14:04)

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Ashley Flowers (15:04)

Everyone's got a thing, whether it's vinyl records, sneakers or sports memorabilia. And talking to people about how you found them on ebay can quickly become your whole personality. Even at 2am when you can't get your obsession off your mind. You're on ebay for sure. Scrolling your favorite seller's storefront, setting search alerts, building the watch list of your literal dreams, and making everyone in the group chat jealous. Maybe you've even gotten your bestie onto ebay too. And it's pretty likely that when they found out that they could get their favorite thing and for a good deal too, well, it's game over. And if vinyl Records, the newest sneaker drops and sports memorabilia aren't your thing. The best part about ebay is that it doesn't matter what you're into. Designer watches, car parts, vintage furniture. It's all there. You might just discover your next passion on ebay too. So go find the things that keep you up at night. Ebay. Things people love. Both Misty and Dan have significant histories with substance use disorder, along with criminal records, most of it related to drugs. In fact, Dan is supposed to go to trial in just a few months on mostly drug related charges, but ones that carry serious time. Like, he turned down a plea offer that included a 30 year sentence the day before the girls disappeared. And that was supposed to be the compromise, right?

Britt (16:31)

I would say that's a plea deal with 30 years.

Ashley Flowers (16:34)

Yeah. I mean, what he was up against was a lot higher, so.

Britt (16:37)

But how would any of that connect to the girls?

Ashley Flowers (16:40)

I don't know that they know, but I think they suspect that maybe people associated with Dan and whatever he was mixed up in. Like, again, when you're Talking more than 30 years, like, it's pretty serious. Like, his charges, I believe, were for, like, manufacturing, distributing, stuff like that. So it's possible there was an operation with more people involved. Okay, question mark. I don't know. It doesn't take long for things to kind of go off the rails. So both Misty and Dan agree to sit for polygraphs. Misty is clean. She's been clean for quite a while. But the problem is, Dan isn't. He's high when he gets there, which he discloses. But investigators assure him that the test is gonna work just fine. Spoiler alert.

Britt (17:22)

It doesn't. He can't.

Ashley Flowers (17:23)

No, of course not. The results are inconclusive. I don't think he should have ever been allowed to take that test. No, I mean, drugs are like everything I know. Granted, I'm not a polygrapher, but like everything I've ever heard about it, it absolutely affects the results.

Britt (17:37)

We've had cases where people are on, like, blood pressure medication, and they opt to refuse a polygraph because, like, they don't know how that's gonna affect things.

Ashley Flowers (17:46)

But drug use aside, they have Misty, who says she's clean. And even hers, though, comes back inconclusive, which they must have put a lot of weight on, because at that point, the script just flips. Things get super confrontational, and they accuse Misty and Dan of killing the girls, or at least of knowing who did. Dan ends up storming out mid interrogation. They both lawyer up, and they just stop cooperating.

Britt (18:14)

Which I'm sure makes them just look even more suspicious. I mean, it becomes like a vicious cycle.

Ashley Flowers (18:20)

Well, and not even just suspicious to investigators, but to Heather and Drew as well. The temperature does kind of cool off a bit. Like, eventually, Dan offers to get clean, to sit for another polygraph. Misty offers to sit for another one, too. The second time they both pass. So you could say that again. Early days, things were just so hyped.

Britt (18:40)

Emotions, right? Yeah. Are the investigators looking at anyone else, like, besides the family?

Ashley Flowers (18:46)

I mean, I'm sure they're looking at friends, family members, neighbors, your neighborhood sex offenders, obviously, but they're not getting anywhere with any of it. Thankfully, though, even though they don't have a specific suspect in their sites, it does seem like police have officially moved away from any kind of accidental drowning theory, because exactly a week into the investigation, the case is reclassified as an abduction, and investigators try to find security camera footage of the girls. The problem is we're talking 2012. Like, the ring doorbell, camera or stuff like that isn't quite as prevalent like, in neighborhoods.

Britt (19:22)

And anything that's out there isn't going to be near the quality that we.

Ashley Flowers (19:25)

Have today for sure. When all is said and done, they get one. There is one camera from a business close to the Collins house that caught the girls for, like, a few seconds on a grainy, blurry video riding by on their bikes. Which doesn't do much other than confirm Wilma's timeline about the girls heading out on their bikes at about 12:15. By the time Elizabeth's ninth birthday rolls around on July 31, they still have nothing. This is a full 18 days after they disappear appeared. But though she's not there with them, there is something comforting to Lyric's mom, Misty, the belief that wherever they are, whatever has happened, they are at least together. And Lyric is no doubt doing all she can to protect Elizabeth, looking out for her younger cousin like she always does. Reporting from KCRG says that sometime that fall, investigators have a really hard conversation with Heather and Drew, probably Misty and Dan as well. They want them to be prepared for what's going to happen if the girls are found. They said if it's good news, if the girls are found alive, they're going to be told to go to the hospital. If it's bad news, they're going to be told to meet investigators somewhere that's not the hospital. Which makes the calls that they all get from a local pastor on December 5th all the more gut wrenching because they're all told to go to Evansdale City hall as quickly as possible, because investigators are gonna be waiting there for them. And what investigators tell them is that earlier that day, a couple of hunters had stumbled on two small sets of human remains about 30 minutes north of Evansdale, in this big wooded area called Seven Bridges Wildlife Area in Braemar County. Formal identifications still need to be made, but as soon as investigators show them pictures of the ship found with the remains, they all know. 145 days after they vanished and 20 days before Christmas, Lyric and Elizabeth have been recovered. And Drew described the conflicting and complicated feelings that kind of washed over him. He has this kind of long quote that he told Nicole Agee and Aaron Hepker. And I don't even want to summarize it because it's just so raw. So I'm going to have you read it for us.

Britt (21:46)

He says, quote, it's really painful because when you don't know where they're at for five months and then they find them, you feel relieved and then you feel guilty and that crushes you because it's like when they find them, you are relieved that they're at least found, but then you've got guilt. It's the worst thing. I can't think of anything worse.

Ashley Flowers (22:05)

I think it's gotta be something that so many loved ones of missing or murdered people can relate to. No one wants all this time searching to end in the discovery of remains. Like you, everyone wants that happy ending. But after months of sleepless nights and questions with no answers, there is some relief in finally knowing. I always say it's like instead of every possibility, like, you can you have.

Britt (22:28)

One to, like, know know?

Ashley Flowers (22:30)

Yeah. In that Max docuseries, Dan says he only has one question for the investigators. Were they found together? And Chief Smock tells him, yes, they had each other. Now, the girls were found in an especially remote part of Seven Bridges, which is only accessible via one particular road. And the fact that they were found in Seven Bridges et al, gives investigators some important insight into their killer. Because this area isn't known to everyone. I mean, a lot of locals don't even know about it. But you know who it is known to? Apparently criminals who like to use it as a dumping ground. Guns, drugs, that kind of thing. I mean, they found it all out there before, except now it doesn't seem like anything else related to the girls was left out there with them. They're hard pressed to find anything else out there besides their bodies that helps them generate leads. And even though it feels like they should be dealing with a small pool of suspects at least. Again, based on the area whatever, no one is identified and the case seems to go cold all through the winter into the spring until May of 2013. That's when investigators in this case catch wind of another double abduction a little over 100 miles away in Dayton, Iowa, one with glaring similarities to Lyric and Elizabeth's case.

Britt (23:58)

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Ashley Flowers (24:36)

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Britt (26:15)

Whoa.

Ashley Flowers (26:15)

And by the way, there's something kind of interesting. Clearly they're rare, but somehow Iowa has three. And those three didn't happen from 1970 to now. They're all concentrated from 1991 to now in our story in 2012. Now this one in Dayton, also two young girls, also best friends, 15 year old Kathleen Shepard and 12 year old Desi Hughes. They were walking home from their bus stop when a random dude in a red pickup truck pulled over and asked if they wanted to make some money mowing his lawn. Kathleen and Desi were for sure interested. What kid doesn't want to like earn some extra money? But they told him that they'd have to ask their parents first. And even though they were less than a block from home, they hopped in his truck when he offered to drive them the rest of the way. And the driver is this big guy who introduces himself as Michael. But instead of driving them towards their houses, Michael starts driving in the opposite direction. And Kathleen and Desi were like, hey, like we told you, we have to ask our parents first. And he's like, oh, yeah, no worries, like I'm just going to take you there, but you can use my phone to then ask. Which is like not the thing that they needed to ask. Before long, they weren't even in Dayton anymore. And I think this is when they really started to get scared. But Michael wouldn't turn the truck around. And eventually he pulls into this like long drive. But it didn't lead to a house like he said it was going to. It led to this property with a couple of pig confinements and a shed truly in the middle of nowhere. Now he is still going along with this ruse at this point, probably trying to keep them calm. He's like, oh, the lawnmower is in this shed. And the girls, probably wanting to believe this wasn't a true nightmare, they agree to go in, maybe even hoping there's a phone or whatever. But of course, when they went inside, there is no lawnmower.

Britt (28:17)

There's no lawnmower, there's no phone. It's just them.

Ashley Flowers (28:21)

They turn around to go back outside. But they were stopped in their tracks when they saw that Michael was blocking the exit with a gun pointed at them. He ordered them both to lay down on their stomachs. And then he zip tied their hands behind their backs. And once they were secured, Michael put his gun down and picked up a knife instead. Now the girls were panicking and Kathleen just burst into tears, begging him to let them Go. And this pissed Michael off. So he grabbed Kathleen by the arm, dragged her out of the shed, leaving Desi in there alone. And the last thing she heard was Kathleen just yelling her name. And then silence. Desi somehow maneuvered and got her hands in front of her. Michael's gun was still there where he left it. So she grabbed it and bolted across the property as fast as she could until she reached a tree to hide behind. And Michael and Kathleen must have been out of view at that point, because I don't think he realized Desi was gone till he walked back in the shed. So she's out there, and she at some point hears him just yell this expletive. And then she heard his truck start up. And a lot of kids, people, whatever, would probably be frozen with fear, but not Desi. She ran into the giant woods behind the pig confinements. And she just ran and ran and ran, the whole time hearing Michael's truck creeping down the surrounding country roads as he tried to hunt her down. And after what felt like an eternity, she reached a farm, ran into a couple of men standing outside, and begged them to call 911. And all she could really get out was that her friend needed help. Now, one of these men, who was the owner of the farm, told the other guy, like, grab your gun. Go drive to those pig confinements. I'm going to help Desi. And basically, if that Michael guy is there, like, make sure he stays there. But when this friend comes back, he said all he could find, it wasn't Michael, not even another girl. All he found was a pool of blood. Desi was saved. And they ultimately determined that Michael was Michael Klunder. He was the son in law of the man who owned those pig confinements. He was also a registered sex offender. Now, deputies made a beeline to this guy's house about 10 miles away. And while they were there outside, Michael's wife pulls into the driveway. And when they asked her where her husband was, she told them, I don't know. But, like, I just got this text from Michael, like a very cryptic text, because basically all it said was he loved her and that he was sorry. Before long, Michael's father in law ends up finding him on another property he owned. He had taken his own Life. And then 18 days after that, Cathlen's body was found in the Des Moines River. Now, obviously, when the dust settles a little bit on that case, that's when everyone wonders the same thing. Was Michael the guy who had taken Lyric and Elizabeth? Now they end up finding out that he was familiar with Seven Bridges. That area that they said, like, someone had to know this place. He had been sent to some sort of juvenile detention facility in that general area for assaulting a girl back in 1986, when he was just 15 years old. And he ended up escaping from that place. And guess where he was found hiding out?

Britt (31:55)

Seven Bridges.

Ashley Flowers (31:56)

Yep, Seven Bridges. So it might have been unknown to a lot of Iowans, but it was not unknown to Michael. And guess what? Remember how I said there had only been three double abductions in the state since 1991? Yeah. The 1991 case involved two toddlers.

Britt (32:15)

Okay.

Ashley Flowers (32:16)

And guess who our perp was?

Britt (32:18)

No.

Ashley Flowers (32:19)

Michael was responsible for. At a minimum, we know two of the three Iowa double abductions on record.

Britt (32:27)

Double abductions that are incredibly rare.

Ashley Flowers (32:30)

Incredibly rare. In general, Iowa has three of them. So let me fully break down this guy's criminal history, because I think it really paints a picture. In 1986, when he was just 15 years old, he assaulted a girl with the intention to commit sexual abuse. That is how he wound up in that juvenile detention facility from 86 to 88. By 89, he was free for a hot minute, but he wound back up in custody from 89 to 91, because at the age of 17, he committed another assault. This time it was with the intent to commit seriously injury. He got out in 91, but not even a full four months later, he tried to abduct a young woman that he, like, tricked into pulling over under the pretense of her tail lights being out. And I think he was, like, pretending maybe to be an officer or. Or maybe he. He was pretending to help. I don't know exactly, but he managed to, when she, like, pulled over, drag her into his car. Ryan J. Foley reports for the Associated Press that it was only when she got the attention of another driver that he ditched her and fled the scene. So she survived, but he's, like, on the run at that point. The next day, he abducted those two toddlers. Now, apparently, he knew one of their moms, which I'm guessing is how he got caught. But when he abducted them, he put them in his trunk, drove them to this rural spot, like, 50 miles away, and left them in some sort of trash receptacle. And not unharmed, by the way, though they both survived. One of them was found to have been choked. So he went back to prison, serving about two decades before being released in 2011.

Britt (34:10)

And then Lyric and Elizabeth happened in 2012 by who knows?

Ashley Flowers (34:16)

And then in 2013, we know that he attacked Kathleen and Desi before taking his own life.

Britt (34:23)

When did this guy even have time to get married?

Ashley Flowers (34:26)

So that was actually fresh. He got married sometime in 2012, which would have been the same year that Lyric and Elizabeth were killed.

Britt (34:33)

And let's be clear. There's a pattern here. He goes to prison, gets out within a year, he's reoffending.

Ashley Flowers (34:41)

Reoffending. I mean, like every time, every single. For his whole life. So, yes, I see a pattern. A lot of people see a pattern. And I think the key is if he's responsible for Lyric, in Elizabeth's case, there is a pattern. Otherwise. Otherwise, he waited a little bit longer. So if he's out in 2011 and we still. 2013, it's a year. Ish. Right. So it could be close. But guess what? In 2014, investigators say it's not him. We've ruled him out.

Britt (35:11)

No way.

Ashley Flowers (35:12)

Ruled him out completely. They never say definitively why. But Chief Trelka thinks that it has to do with his cell phone pinging up in the Dayton area, which was 100 miles away, apparently. His phone, the day that the girls went missing were murdered. His phone is 100 miles away.

Britt (35:34)

Ashley, can I tell you something shocking? Phones don't abduct people.

Ashley Flowers (35:39)

Right? His phone is 100 miles away.

Britt (35:42)

His phone's 100 miles away.

Ashley Flowers (35:43)

Where is he? I know, I know in my. Like, I would say, does he have an alibi? We don't know.

Britt (35:50)

Right.

Ashley Flowers (35:51)

I would say probably not. I know police have said that they believe he was at home or at work, but like, again, to me, that's not.

Britt (36:03)

Like, if you believe, you don't know.

Ashley Flowers (36:06)

And even if you. Even if he was at work, apparently his working could put him on the road sometimes anyways. So it's not inconceivable you can make 100 mile trip there and back easy in a day. I mean, you travel. What does it say?

Britt (36:22)

It's like 115 miles from my house.

Ashley Flowers (36:26)

And you make day trips here all the time now maybe they've got more that they just haven't disclosed. I kind of wonder if there's like some mo. Stuff that we aren't privy to because I haven't talked about Lyric and Elizabeth's autopsy results or manner of. Because that's never come out even to this day. So the only thing I feel like would maybe inform their thinking is that okay.

Britt (36:51)

But I feel like we don't see a lot of consistency in pattern with his other stuff, though. So, like, why would that? Is there enough to say, like, this isn't something he would do based on the wide variety of ways he's assaulting people in the past.

Ashley Flowers (37:06)

And I don't have, like, a ton of, like, detailed detail. Right. Like, we know we have the most detail about Cafe and Desi. All, like, we know is maybe, like, that he choked the toddler. I don't know if something happened to the other toddler. I don't have details about these other attacks on, like, single victims. So it is possible there is stuff that is, you know, for these solved cases, is none of the public's business and has not been released. I don't. And again, maybe I'm just, like, making stuff up. But, like. And, like, to me, what his M.O. is is he's a predator.

Britt (37:36)

Right.

Ashley Flowers (37:37)

Like, through and through.

Britt (37:38)

Yeah. He's a bad guy who preys on people.

Ashley Flowers (37:42)

Yeah. But they still say it's not him. He's cleared. But what's so interesting is, like, in the same year in 2014, the FBI does a profile of Lyric and Elizabeth's killer. And when I look at the profile, I'm like, oh, so you're describing Michael.

Britt (37:59)

Like, the picture's the same.

Ashley Flowers (38:01)

Brett, I sent it to you. Can you just give us the highlights?

Britt (38:03)

Yeah. So it says perp may have been experiencing problems in his personal life. May not talk much about the case, but is probably following it closely in the news. May have altered his appearance and. Or the appearance of his vehicle, which.

Ashley Flowers (38:17)

To be fair, I don't know if that any of that applies to Michael, but it's like, it seems just like super general question marks. Yeah.

Britt (38:22)

Perp is probably familiar with Myers Lake. Could probably blend in and could be from Evansdale or Braemar County. Probably used either a ruse or threats of violence to get the girls to comply.

Ashley Flowers (38:35)

Ruse, check. We know he did that with Kathleen and Desi.

Britt (38:38)

And it says he probably chose Seven Bridges because he knew how secluded it is.

Ashley Flowers (38:43)

Check, check, check.

Britt (38:44)

And, like, Burp probably has a history of abductions and attempted abductions.

Ashley Flowers (38:48)

Yeah. And it's so wild because, like, at the same time, they keep doubling down on the seven bridges thing. Like, the FBI had weighed in, and the national center for Missing Exploited Children does, too. And Grant Rogers even quotes Chief Smock in the Des Moines Register saying that they have no doubt the killer was super familiar with the area. And so, like, all of the experts agree on that point.

Britt (39:10)

Well, and, like, he didn't just know about the area. He ran away and hid there. I know he knows it's secluded because he chose it as a hiding place.

Ashley Flowers (39:20)

And again, they keep talking about this area. I'm like, we know that. Like we like, they just keep doubling down. Like, we know that now. We need to know who.

Britt (39:26)

And they still say despite all of.

Ashley Flowers (39:29)

This, it's still not Michael. Not Michael, no. But they also don't have any new names to offer up. Or they don't until November of 2016, when a new suspect emerges.

Britt (39:43)

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Ashley Flowers (40:39)

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude and along with thanking my husband for loving my very specific brand of human and all my employees for helping me literally live my dream every day there is another person that we often don't thank ourselves. It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we are trying our best to make sense of everything in this crazy world. And that isn't easy. So here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com crimejunkie today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.com crimejunkie In November of 2016, a traveling auto insurance field inspector from Central Iowa named Jeff Altmeier gets arrested that month on suspicion of impersonating an officer and attempting to abduct a six year old girl in an Iowa town on the border of like Nebraska. So this guy basically offered her $100 to get in his car. And in fact, when they search, they find a whole wad of one hundreds. Like when he's taken into custody along with Xanax and Viagra and this wad of hundred dollar bills makes sense because it turns out that this guy has been doing this before. In fact, DCI had been getting bizarre reports from all over the state about some dude trying to get kids in his car by offering them $100.

Britt (42:27)

How did they even get onto him?

Ashley Flowers (42:29)

Well, Lindha writes for the Des Moines register that the 6 year old refused to get in his car and then told her mom and their 22 year old neighbor who was like, oh, hell no. Had the girl describe the car. Then they jumped into their own car, like straight up barefoot, sped off after this silver Ford Focus that was described and there was lit, I mean straight up this high speed chase where he's like going after this guy till he gets the plate number, which he then turns over to police. So this happens naturally. Investigators still working Lyric and Elizabeth's case, which is a little cold by now, are especially interested to learn that his targets almost always turn out to be young girls. And he's even already suspected of being connected to a June 2016 attempted abduction of three girls 12 miles from Evansdale.

Britt (43:22)

Three girls at the same time?

Ashley Flowers (43:24)

Yeah, at the same time. But as promising as he looks, there is one glaring problem with his MO compared to Lyric and Elizabeth's case. Because while he's suspected of having like tried this at least 19 times, 19 different kids he tried to get in his car. And he is eventually charged and convicted of two counts of sexual assault on a minor. It seems like anyone he was able to get in, or whether they refused or whatever, like he let them go.

Britt (43:56)

And what did you say he drives?

Ashley Flowers (43:57)

He drove a Ford Focus at the.

Britt (43:59)

Time, so that's like a sedan. So I mean, what would he have done with Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes? Like Michael, he had a truck like that made sense.

Ashley Flowers (44:09)

This doesn't fully like, I mean, unless someone. So a truck makes sense. If you get the girls in your car or incapacitate them and you have to like transport the bikes with you. The other option is whatever happened to them, like someone got them to meet them there or they were there when someone came across them already. I don't know, I mean, I kind.

Britt (44:29)

Of lean toward, like, dump there. Just thinking about how her purse was kind of like tossed in another area and the bodies were somewhere completely different.

Ashley Flowers (44:38)

What I tried to figure out was, like, were there any prints by the bike where there was tire prints or footprints?

Britt (44:43)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (44:43)

Can you see, like, the girls prints by the bikes or fingerprints on the bikes if someone would have had to have dumped them? Yeah, but there isn't a single mention of any of that in the reporting. I'm. I would hope, I'm sure, but I hope they have all that. They're just. Again, it's one of those things they're not releasing, but I don't know, a combination of everything is why Jeff, while promising at first blush, is pretty much written off by the time of the next notable double abduction, this one in Indiana. And this brings us back to where.

Britt (45:15)

We started, Libby and Abby in Delphi.

Ashley Flowers (45:18)

Now, we didn't get hardly anything for years in that case. Like, same as Lyric and Elizabeth. They didn't even release the cause of death. So there was a lot of speculation early on. I remember now, since the trial for the Delphi case has been underway, we've learned that Abby and Libby were killed by having their throat slit. I don't know if that is similar or dissimilar to the case, but suspicions still linger on the Internet, or at least they did for a while, despite both agencies saying very clearly early on that the cases weren't connected back before we knew anything in the Delphi case. And even then, like, early on, even Drew one of the dads, like, wondered if there was a possible connection. But I think for the most part, like, people were just grasping at straws. You had these two, like, unexplainable tragedies, both, like, you know, in the grand scheme of the country, fairly close to one another.

Britt (46:15)

And no one in any way has connected Richard Allen, who's charged in the Delphi case, to Iowa at all, Right?

Ashley Flowers (46:24)

No, I never even saw it come up. So I think everyone is pretty satisfied now that they are separate cases, but Delphi, you know, getting some potential closure. This case going to trial, even if we don't know how it's ended yet, it does leave the families of Lyric and Elizabeth back at square one. Or square two, if square two is their first suspect. Michael. Because you see, when Dylan Sires, that filmmaker that I've mentioned, when he released his doc in 2024, he ended up digging up some bombshell information. You see, he figures out that two guys who did time with Michael Klunder lived in Evansdale in the summer of 2012. Their names are Troy Conkling and Chris Ricketts. And according to Chris, he personally knows that Michael was in Evansdale around the time of the abductions. Chris said that Troy called him in that summer of 2012 and was like, oh, my God, you're never gonna believe who is here with me right now. And Troy hands the phone off, and the next voice that Chris heard belonged to Michael. He's like, you know, full of good cheer and bro energy. Like, what's up? How have you been? Whatever. That kind of thing.

Britt (47:44)

But, like, on the day, I don't.

Ashley Flowers (47:47)

Know if he gets that specific or even if anyone knows, because by the time he's retelling this, I mean, it's years later, but it's still worth looking into. Right. So Dylan and Elizabeth's dad, Drew, go track Troy down, and they actually confront him about this. Did you call him with Michael with you in Evansdale? And he gets defensive, and he denies being with Michael at all, let alone in Evansdale in the summer of 2012. But he does, however, agree with Drew on one thing. If you're placing bets, the good money is on Michael being Lyric and Elizabeth's killer. And this is someone who knew the guy. Now, in a really, like, strange turn of fate, it turned out that Drew, the dad, knew Chris. Like, they went to high school together.

Britt (48:37)

Strange turn of fate or small town?

Ashley Flowers (48:39)

Small town.

Britt (48:39)

That's fair.

Ashley Flowers (48:41)

So Drew ends up calling Chris back, and he's like, listen, I had a conversation with him personally. Troy's denying everything. And then Chris kind of changes his story. So now he's saying, okay, like, they didn't call me. I actually saw them together in Evansdale that summer. I don't know. Right. Is the story changing because he's lying, or is the story changing because he was trying to, like, distance himself?

Britt (49:06)

I was gonna say, I feel like it's. This is enough that they'll believe me, but I can distance myself from it. And then when it starts falling apart, he has to kind of, like, out himself more.

Ashley Flowers (49:16)

Yeah. And he offers up an interesting piece of information that he hadn't mentioned before, or at least he, like, really hones in on. He talks about why Michael would have left his phone. Like, again, the whole thing is like, oh, Michael's phone is up here. He's like, he. He came down here without his parole.

Britt (49:37)

Officer'S approval, and it's far enough that he has to.

Ashley Flowers (49:41)

Yeah. So he's like, instead of asking for approval he probably would have had to leave his phone up there to skirt the rules or, like, to at least. And again, I don't know if they were tracking his phone, but to make sure there wasn't digital evidence of him being somewhere.

Britt (49:54)

Yeah. Make sure that the paper trail's clean.

Ashley Flowers (49:56)

Yeah. And, like. And it makes you wonder, like, if he was involved, was this, like, premeditated. Was he, like, thinking he was gonna do something? And of course he's gonna leave his. His phone at home. Or maybe it was just about the parole and he was there and then everything.

Britt (50:09)

An opportunity arose.

Ashley Flowers (50:10)

Yeah, it was opportunistic. Now, Dylan, obviously, like, in these phone calls and these meetings with people, like, they were recording everything. They turned the footage over to investigators. But it doesn't seem like the investigation has advanced much since then. I mean, this was just 20, 24, like, this year. So I don't know. I think it was, like, towards the top of the year that at least came out. I don't know when he turned over the footage.

Britt (50:32)

Right.

Ashley Flowers (50:33)

So I don't know if anything's happening in the background at all.

Britt (50:36)

But investigators are still saying Michael's in the clear? Yes, they're not saying anything.

Ashley Flowers (50:42)

Exactly. So they haven't said a lot, which, like, the last official statement was, he's in the clear, and they haven't done.

Britt (50:49)

Anything to contradict that.

Ashley Flowers (50:51)

Yeah. And, like, there are other people who talked on the documentary, like Chief Trelka. He wasn't part or isn't now part of the ongoing investigation, but even he says he can't get over all of the coincidences, and he thinks Michael very well could be the guy. But he, again, is, like, speaking as an observer, like us. And though he's no longer involved in the investigation, even Special Agent Headland makes a sensible point that you can't conclude Michael wasn't there just because his cell phone wasn't.

Britt (51:21)

I'm sorry.

Ashley Flowers (51:22)

Thanks. Special Agent Headline.

Britt (51:24)

I said that.

Ashley Flowers (51:25)

I know.

Britt (51:25)

Minutes ago.

Ashley Flowers (51:26)

Special Agent Pre Watt. But every day that goes by is another day without answers for Heather and Drew and Misty and Dan. Not that they've just been sitting around waiting for a resolution to the nightmare that they wake up to each and every day. Do you remember that little island? I told you they, like, swam out to search themselves. In large part as a result of Drew's tireless fundraising efforts. Evansdale rededicates it as Angel's Memorial island in honor of not just Lyric and Elizabeth, but of three other women and girls from Iowa who were also tragically murdered. There was five year old Evelyn Miller from Floyd, who was killed by her mother's fiance in 2006. Donasha Hall, a 13 year old from Waterloo who was kidnapped in 2006 before her remains were discovered in Illinois. And 22 year old Lindsey Nichols, who was killed by her boyfriend in 2012 in Jessup. And this space becomes Drew's favorite place to think about his little girl. He sometimes brings his other daughters, sometimes even his dogs, and he'll go sit there in this white gazebo and watch the sunset. And he says he feels her presence there. In the years after the murders, Heather and Drew's marriage fell apart. It happens to so many families that lose kids and mostly because they found that they had really different groups grieving styles. And it just like it can poison your marriage. Like Heather kind of buttoned up the grief, like desperate to kind of maintain something close to a normal life for her other kids. But I mean, Drew's the first to admit he just fell into pieces and he stayed in those pieces for years. It still is in pieces today in a lot of ways. But they've also both found a focus for their grief. And there's still a team when it comes to keeping Elizabeth's memory alive. In 2022, they founded the Elizabeth Collins foundation with the goal of helping other families with missing loved ones. And they partnered with the Cedar Valley Crime Stoppers to bring attention to cold cases in the area. And they have an educational mission as well to educate the community on child safety and the dangers of child abduction and sex trafficking. Audio Chuck has made a donation, and if any of you crime junkies want to do the same, Please head to ElizabethCollinsFoundation.org and though Heather and Drew have completely devoted themselves to the foundation, that doesn't mean that they've given up hope for justice. And they believe that maybe someone out there knows something. Which is where you come in. Crime junkies. If you know anything about the 2012 disappearance and murders of Lyric Cook Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins, you can email a tip to our missing Iowa girls at DPS State IA US or you can text a tip to 274637. Make sure you include the word cedar C E, D A, R. We're going to have all of that in the show notes, along with a number to call if you would like to remain anonymous. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crime junkie podcast.com and you can follow us.

Britt (54:51)

On Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast.

Ashley Flowers (54:54)

As always, we'll be back next week with a brand new episode, but we've got a little something extra for you. Stick around for the good. Now I know this isn't the end of the month quite yet, but November is the month of gratitude. After. After all, we have so much to be thankful for, including some fun things on the horizon. Wink wink. But most of all, we are thankful for you guys and this community that we've built. So I love the response that we've been getting. You guys love hearing all this good as much as we do like all the stuff that's come out of this. So I like we just give you a little, a little extra.

Britt (55:47)

Yeah. Okay. So this one is from Jennifer H. And it definitely, definitely gives me so much to be grateful for. Hi Ashley and Britt and all of the incredible staff at Audio Chalk. Which side note. Hi like thank you so much for like saying something about our incredible, incredible team here. I'm 49 years old and live with my family in Westfield, Indiana. Unlike many of the other letters you receive, I have not been the victim of a crime nor has anyone in my family. However, When I was 16, my parents decided to move to Indy and join a fringe religious group.

Ashley Flowers (56:22)

Oh boy.

Britt (56:22)

I was part of that for over 20 years. After much soul searching, trauma and tragedy, I finally came to understand that I had been living in a cult. As a part of this group, I was not allowed to go to college or have a job outside of the cult. You may be wondering how this has anything to do with you all or Crime Junkie.

Ashley Flowers (56:40)

I love her but like no I don't. Like clearly you've been listening to me Ambrette.

Britt (56:44)

Well, for as long as I can remember, like literally since I was about 10 years old, it was my dream to become a lawyer. From a young age, I have been passionate about justice for victims and for those wrongfully convicted. I knew I could help change the world by working in the legal field. However, growing up in a cult that wouldn't allow women in the workplace, I gave up on that dream. Many years later, after we escaped the cult and I started my re entry into the real world, I just assumed that dream was gone and that I had to grieve what could have been. During the beginning stages of my healing journey from the trauma of being in a cult, I discovered you and your podcast. I couldn't get enough. Yes, I am a top tier fan club member, have been to your events and tell everyone I meet about the incredible work you all are doing. That passion for fighting for justice was reignited thanks in large part to the work you're all doing. After much soul searching, lots of therapy, and self reflection, I realized that I am the only one who gets to decide my destiny. Yes, girl, the passion for justice still burns hot in my soul. Watching what you at audiochuck have accomplished for victims, their families, and the narrative around true crime has motivated me to grab my dreams and run with them. That being said, at the age of 49, I have applied and been accepted into college as a first semester freshman. I will be majoring in criminal justice with the hope of going to law school once I have my undergraduate degree. Is it a lofty and possibly crazy goal? Probably.

Ashley Flowers (58:20)

No. Never. Never.

Britt (58:22)

But you all have inspired me to fight for my dreams and help change the world by advocating for Victoria and their families. I hope someday to meet you all in person. Actually, let's be honest. Working for Audio Check would be an absolute dream come true.

Ashley Flowers (58:36)

Girl, you're just around the corner.

Britt (58:37)

I know. Westfield, come on. Thank you again for all the work you do for victims, for teaching us the life rules of a crime junkie, and for inspiring so many of us to never give up the fight for justice. Ooh, here's two. Oh, I got chills. A long season of justice.

Ashley Flowers (58:55)

Gratefully, Jennifer H. And to women not stepping aside to taking the reins this letter so much. It is never too late to take back the reins of your life, to.

Britt (59:07)

Take back your destiny.

Ashley Flowers (59:08)

Yes.

Britt (59:08)

She uses the word destiny, and that's such a powerful word.

Ashley Flowers (59:12)

Yes, yes. Women of the world have so much to offer. I love this and I love that all the.

Britt (59:20)

At 49, she's.

Ashley Flowers (59:21)

That's the thing is, like, there's. I hear so many people say, like, I. You know, it's too late for me to, like, start over or, like, switch career paths.

Britt (59:29)

I'm gonna be completely honest. When we started Crime Junkie, we said we were gonna give it a year. When we're 30, we have to get serious. We have to, like, if it doesn't happen by then, it's over for us. We said that. Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (59:40)

And I mean, I. I feel like I've been someone who, like, my whole career has been like, I tried this. And I was like, yeah, yeah. I kind of like. But like, what else? And I kept making, like, drastic changes. You get one life to find your destiny and be happy, and it's never too late. So many skills can be applied to other areas. What you can't, like, get a degree for is passion and hard work. And I think.

Britt (60:04)

And a dream. Like, she's been dreaming about this.

Ashley Flowers (60:07)

Yeah.

Britt (60:08)

Since she was 10.

Ashley Flowers (60:09)

I know, I know. Ah, that's what I love. And it's what we love at Audio Chuck. Like, show me the ideas. Like, show me the passion and the hard work. Like, that's. You can't teach that. Which is like, a good plug for you guys. We're always hiring. We're a team of, like, 65 people now in Indianapolis, constantly growing audiochuck.com, our website always has job openings, little career tab. We got a careers page. Jennifer. I feel like we'll definitely be connecting. We gotta find a way to meet in Indy.

Britt (60:38)

For sure. Sure.

Ashley Flowers (60:39)

And maybe someday you'll find yourself at Audio Chuck or anyone listening who knows. Crime Junkie is an Audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

C (60:55)

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Ashley Flowers (61:17)

Days.

C (61:17)

That's modern made simple. Shop All Modern's early Access to Black Friday sale now through November 20th@allmodern.com the.

Britt (61:27)

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