Britt (4:34)

I cannot relate to anything less as a crime junkie.

Ashley Flowers (4:37)

No, I know I would want to.

Britt (4:38)

Get the most involved.

Ashley Flowers (4:40)

I would make this my whole personality. Yeah, like, but we are not Joseph. We are crime junkies. But he is human. And he does find himself, like, thinking about this back even after he gets home. What if it really was blood? What if someone out there is hurt? He can't just sit with it anymore. So he does end up calling police that same day. It's state Trooper Paul Landry who gets sent to check this out. And when he finds the trash bag and sees everything with his own eyes, he is not as quick to dismiss it. He knows blood when he sees it. And this blood is still sticky, which means that it's pretty fresh. Whatever happened to whoever it happened to probably happened around sometime, like the night before. So Trooper Landry collects the items and sends them to the state crime lab for testing. While he puts out feelers for any crimes in the area that this might be related to. Assaults, homicides, missing people. Nothing pops up right away. But about a week later, Trooper Landry gets word that there is in fact, a missing girl. Someone had apparently heard someone else talking about a newscast that they saw about this missing person. So he literally doesn't even have a name or even a place. But it has to be somewhat regional, right? Like it's worth a shot. So he starts calling all of the major channels in the Boston area and neighboring Rhode island, asking about this broadcast. And it takes a few hours, but later that day, he gets a call back from a Boston news director confirming that they did run a brief broadcast on a woman who was reported missing by her boyfriend in a town about 40 miles away from Orange, that rest stop where the stuff was found. And at first, Trooper Landry's not convinced that this woman is his victim, if there even is a victim. Like 40 miles feels kind of far for him. But he looks into the report anyways, and what he finds is that a week before all of this, a guy named J.R. reported his 21 year old girlfriend, Robin Benedict, missing after she didn't return from visiting someone she knew in Sharon, Massachusetts. Now, it turns out Sharon, Massachusetts is only about five minutes away from the rest stop, and Robyn was wearing a tan jacket when she was last seen. So he looks Robyn up and he learns that she is a sex worker in Boston. And J.R. might be her boyfriend, but he might be more than that. Like, JR's official criminal history includes unarmed robbery and receiving stolen credit cards. But he also co owns a hair salon that's rumored to be a meeting place for traffickers. And it turns out JR's not the only one who reported Robyn missing. In fact, he wasn't even the first person. JR's ex, who is also the mother of his son, she actually reported her missing the day that the trash bag was found because Robyn never made it to her son's birthday party. And so then it was two days after she had reported her missing that JR went and reported her too. And then three days after that, her parents reported her missing. Now, there's already a search underway because the day before he reported Robyn missing to police, JR hired private investigators to track her down.

Britt (7:50)

Hold up, he hired PIs before he called the police?

Ashley Flowers (7:53)

Yeah, I assume he did that because police aren't like, super fond of him. And as Robin's suspected trafficker slash boyfriend, like, he would be a prime suspect. And also, like, I'm sure he doesn't want them, like Poking around into whatever he has going on. But anyways, Trooper Landry decides to start with these PIs. He asked them to come down to the station to talk about what it is they know, what have they found out? And they tell him that they've done a lot of work on the case so far. And in particular, they spent a lot of time looking into this one specific guy that JR believed took Robin. This client, who in recent months had become obsessed with her. Now, this man J.R. was suspicious of is a 41 year old Tufts Medical School professor named Dr. Bill Douglas. And his condensed version of like his history with Robin goes like this. Robin met Bill at a Combat Zone bar sometime in the spring of 1982. So almost exactly a year ago, when I say the Combat Bar, like the Combat Zone is this area in Boston known for sex work, maybe other illegal activity. So he meets her at a bar in this area and he becomes a regular client of hers. Eventually, though, he started paying Robyn for more and more of her time so that she wouldn't have to work in the Combat Zone as much. He started changing his work schedule around just to take her to plays and movies and concerts. And pretty soon Robyn was spending at least two hours a night with Bill. But it never seemed like enough. And at some point, Bill's obsession with Robyn grew until he was sending her cards and letters almost every day and calling her incessantly if she didn't have time to meet him. He even bought her an answering machine for her birthday so that she would always get his messages. And he put her on the payroll at Tufts as a research assistant. So, I mean, he was like, really like, trying to bring her. He was trying to be her whole life. And soon, Robyn would regularly spot Bill, like, parked outside of her apartment watching her comings and goings. And it's strange because police started showing up right as she would bring clients back, as if someone was watching her place and wanting her to get caught. And all of that made JR rethink something that had happened, like, even before this. The start of the new year is the perfect time to get organized, set goals, and prioritize what matters most. Like your financial wellness. Thanks to Rocket Money, your financial goals can feel achievable. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bill so you can grow your savings, see all of your subscriptions in one place, and know exactly where your money is going. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. They automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save. Then you can ask them to negotiate for you. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.comCrimeJunkie today. That's RocketMoney.comCrimeJunkiE RocketMoney.comCrimeJunkIe this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. How do you stay cozy during the winter months? For some wrapping up in a blanket with a mug of hot chocolate or watching a movie with family is the best way to spend the month of December. I gravitate towards the lights and songs and anything beautiful as the days get shorter and darker. I just love bringing comfort and light into my life so the seasonal saddies don't take over. But Christmas lights are an in the moment thing. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort that never goes away, even when the season changes. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and SW therapists at any time for no additional charge. Find Comfort this December with better help. Visit betterhelp.com crimejunkie today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp H-E-L-P.com crimejunkie so one day back in November, as Robin and Bill were leaving her apartment, police showed up at exactly that moment as they were leaving. But Bill chimed in that there was nothing untoward going on here. Like, she works for me. You have this all wrong. And he like, saved the day. And so that is when all the police visits first started. So JR Was thinking that Bill called the police on himself. So that way when he called later.

Britt (12:52)

Oh, and like he could be the hero of the situation.

Ashley Flowers (12:55)

Yeah, and then maybe she wouldn't suspect when all of a sudden, like the, like she's getting caught with all of these clients. Later, JR Also suspected that Bill would listen to the messages on Robyn's answering machine. He even thought Bill stole Robyn's answering machine from her apartment not once, but twice in an attempt to keep her from meeting other men.

Britt (13:15)

And was Robin suspicious of Bill too? Or was this just like coming from.

Ashley Flowers (13:19)

JR So if you would've asked me a week ago, I would've said I couldn't tell you. But literally, right before finalizing this script, we were able to get in touch with Robin's brother Richard, and he told us that, yes, she at least thought Bill was listening to her calls somehow. I mean, it's probably what pushed her to use an answering service instead of her regular machine to begin with. And interestingly, she wouldn't give Bill the number for the answering service, which, according to her brother Richard, just seemed to make Bill even, like, more crazy. He started stealing her mail. He started calling her family members.

Britt (13:54)

Escalated.

Ashley Flowers (13:55)

Yeah, like, if he couldn't get in touch with her, he, like, had to have tabs on her at all times. And that seemed like it marked the beginning of the end of things between them. Robyn started actively trying to break things off. And on March 2nd, we're back now in 1983, March 2nd, she even calls Bill's house and told his wife Nancy, that she didn't want to see him anymore.

Britt (14:20)

Did wife Nancy know that Bill was seeing another woman?

Ashley Flowers (14:24)

So, I don't know. Like, in that moment when Robyn called her, all we know is that Nancy said okay, nothing else, which makes me think that it wasn't a total surprise. Also, like, how do you spend two hours every night with someone and your wife, like, doesn't know something was up? But what's so interesting is, guess where Nancy and Bill live. Sharon, Massachusetts. Sharon. In fact, Trooper Landry learns that, according to jr, that is actually where Robyn was going the night of March 5th. She wanted to make it clear to Bill that she didn't want to see him again, and she wanted to do it face to face.

Britt (15:03)

So that could explain the blue men's shirt in the trash bag, maybe.

Ashley Flowers (15:08)

Mm.

Britt (15:09)

Why wouldn't J.R. go with her, though?

Ashley Flowers (15:12)

I don't know. So I can see a world where she thought she could handle it herself. Like, she's known this guy for about a year at this point.

Britt (15:20)

And to me, it almost seems separate from JR To a certain extent. A little bit.

Ashley Flowers (15:24)

Yeah.

Britt (15:24)

Phil's, like, taking her on these, like, quote unquote dates and stuff. And.

Ashley Flowers (15:30)

Well, and I think there's this, like, when you know someone that long and, like, you do have, like, very, like, comfortable, intimate, even if it, like, escalates at some point. I think there's this false sense of comfort that people can be lulled into. Like, you know, when someone wasn't always bad. Like, someone who says they care about you. And I'm sure we all remember how invincible we felt at her age. Like, you don't think anything bad can happen to You. I mean, even her brother said that she didn't seem to be worried about Bill. Like, even though he didn't know the full extent of their relationship until after Robin went missing, all he knew was that she was going to break things off with this professor that she was working with. Like, she said that this is what she was telling him, that the professor was getting way too attached, whatever. But he said that his sister just seemed annoyed. She didn't seem scared. But according to jr, she goes over there to break things off that night, and then she just never comes home. Now, J.R. didn't jump straight to, oh, my God, she's been murdered when she didn't come home, I guess. Bill had recently been trying to convince Robyn to go on a trip to the Virgin Islands with him before she disappeared. So at first he thought not. Not even that she went willingly, but, like, maybe Bill abducted her or, like, whatever, hence hiring the Pisces. But they quickly found that Bill definitely wasn't in the Virgin Islands. Cause a couple of days after Robin disappeared, the PIs found him at a hotel in D.C. where he was staying for a conference. And the second they saw him, they spotted something very suspicious. So right away, the PIs notice a bandage over Bill's forehead, which throws up some red flags. And they're like, how'd you get that, Billy? And he's like, oh, I just hit my head on this cabinet door. Which is obviously not what happened, because this is like a large bandage. Like, most likely larger than you would need if you just got a little whack with a cabinet. But Bill was super cooperative. He lets them in, lets them search the room. And Bill's story was that, yes, Robyn had come over on the 5th. He saw her briefly just before 11pm but she left around midnight. And she said that she was gonna go meet some guy named Joe. Oh, and he said, by the way, his wife and kids weren't home, so no one could confirm that.

Britt (17:43)

Cool.

Ashley Flowers (17:44)

So they talk to him. The PIs eventually leave, but there's, like, something about his answers that aren't sitting right with them. So later that same night, they go back to ask Bill again. Like, how is it you got that injury to your head? And this time, he gives a completely different story.

Britt (18:02)

Wait, on the same night?

Ashley Flowers (18:04)

On the same night. So this time he says that he was mugged at an Amtrak stop and that the robbers hit him in the head with his briefcase. And, oh, by the way, his wife actually was home the night that Robin came over so she could corroborate his alibi that she left safe and sound.

Britt (18:19)

Oh, convenient. Now your wife is home late at night when the sex worker you're obsessed with just happens to.

Ashley Flowers (18:25)

I know.

Britt (18:26)

Pop by for a second to, like.

Ashley Flowers (18:27)

Call and confirm that, Like.

Britt (18:28)

No, I feel like maybe you just had the time to, like, line this up. Line up your alibi between, shoot, I lied to them, and they're gonna be able to catch me to, like, oh, you're back. Turns out stories changed.

Ashley Flowers (18:40)

Yeah. So this is all super sus for sure. But they didn't find anything then that really helped them locate Robin, which is still, like, priority number one. But Bill did something strange when he got back home from D.C. he called Robin's dad and said that he had a message for him from Robin. He says Robin told him that if anything ever happened to her, to tell her family not to let J.R. keep her jewelry and furs.

Britt (19:10)

Did her dad have any context for who Bill was when he called?

Ashley Flowers (19:15)

Yes, but. Same as her brother. Like, they didn't have the full context. I don't think they had the full context of what Robyn's life was like anymore. I think she tried to shield them from that reality. Like, only a few years before all of this, she'd been a model student and a president merit school scholar who never missed a day of class. And when she graduated, she worked in graphic design for a minute. But somewhere along the way, she got pulled into sex work. And I don't know if her parents knew every detail of what she was doing for a living. Now, they did eventually learn that she was a sex worker after police had called them down to the station a few times when she was arrested for sex work. So this is before she goes missing. But they had kept that from their other kids until after she goes missing, which is why her brother and he was so shocked when he finally found out. So her parents, like, knew she was struggling. But this is where Bill comes in. So they actually meet him at one of those times when Robyn got arrested. She and Bill were saying, oh, this is all a mistake, and Bill's her boss at the university, and they were saying that he was there to, like, clear everything up. And, like, they. They wanted to believe it. So at first, they knew Bill in that context, like, as her boss, though he did even as her boss, like, rub them the wrong way. Like, he seemed to have a crush on Robin that went way further than the usual professor assistant relationship. And he told them to let him know if anyone ever messed with them or Robin because he had access to Chemicals that could dissolve a body.

Britt (20:44)

The who goes straight to dissolving a.

Ashley Flowers (20:48)

Body if someone bothers you or messes with you. This guy. I know they thought it was at first, they're like, ha, ha ha. Thought it was a joke. But now, again, everything looks different in hindsight and with everything that Bill's done since, they're like, oh, like, like this.

Britt (21:02)

Legitimately could have happened to Robin.

Ashley Flowers (21:04)

Mm. So you see why everyone's suspicious of him. But the PIs, as they're talking to police, are telling them all of this. They add one more thing before they leave. They say that they can't be sure if JR is totally innocent in Robin's disappearance. Like, there is a good chance that he might have something to do with it.

Britt (21:22)

Because why?

Ashley Flowers (21:24)

Because, I don't know, like, that's the stuff that's conveniently left out. But it might be left out because they don't have a real reason other than like, he's the one who's dating her, if not trafficking her. And the read between the lines thing I see here is that he's black. Robyn is a biracial Hispanic woman. And there is like, when you're looking at the research materials and the reporting, there's like the kind of this whiff of racism and sexism, especially discrimination against sex work in a lot of the coverage on this case. So I think they just kind of like plant the seed with Trooper Landry. Here's all this stuff on Bill, but don't totally ignore jr. Want the chance to get rewarded for watching TV with Sling's Watch and Win sweepstakes. All you have to do is watch 30 minutes of TV daily for chances to win up to $10,000 in cash and other prizes monthly. You can also earn rewards by signing up for Sling or for a free account with Sling Freestream, which gives you over 500 channels of always on TV and movies. Sling lets you customize your channel lineup and even record shows with Sling's cloud dvr. In a world filled with long term contracts, I love that there is none of that with Sling. Sign up, Watch for free and even get rewarded for watching. Watch TV anywhere at any time and get rewarded with Sling. Sign up for free today@sling.com win that's sling.com win. Watch TV every day and improve your chances of winning $10,000 in cash and other prizes monthly. Sling.com win there's nothing quite like the feeling of an upgrade when you're traveling. Well, as a T Mobile customer, you can take the perks with you Whether you're going on a weekend getaway or a dream vacation to Italy, it starts the moment you take off with free in flight Wi fi so you can stream your favorite show on the go. I'm actually leaving for France here in a couple of days. Ooh la la. And you better believe I'm going to be making use of that Wi fi to make the most of my long flight and keep working so I'm not drowning in stuff when I get back. Plus, you're covered with 5 gigabytes of high speed data in over 215 countries and destinations with Go 5G or next plans. So when you land you can get fast and easy directions to your hotel or scope out restaurant reservations to sample the local cuisine. And thanks to T Mobile, when your trip is done, you can return your dollar rental car without refueling. These are just a few of the perks that feel like big wins when you travel with T Mobile. Find out how you can experience travel better@t mobile.com travel today. Qualifying Plan required Wi Fi where available on select US airlines additional terms and conditions app so Trooper Landry's first move after talking to the PIs is to try and confirm the tan jacket is actually Robin's. Conveniently, Robin's dad had already showed up to the station because somehow he had heard about the tan jacket that had been found on i95 and he's sure that it's Robin's. But to be extra sure, they contact JR and ask him to come down to the station with a sample of her perfume to compare to the scent that is still like clinging to this jacket. And once J.R. arrives, there is no doubt in anyone's mind J.R. recognizes the jacket too, and that perfume still on it is the same one that Robyn wears every single day. Now Trooper Landry is confident that her dad isn't a suspect, so he sends him home to have time to grieve in peace while he goes in hard at Junior and there are no softball questions. He opens with what did you do with the body?

Britt (25:13)

Oh wow.

Ashley Flowers (25:14)

But JR is distraught and clear that he would never hurt Robyn. He loved her. They were planning to get married. He claims they never even fought and he says the person they need to be looking at is Bill. And after four hours of the third degree, Trooper Landry starts to believe jr so he lets him go, though they do still search the house that he shared with Robin and her new apartment that she had just recently got where she brought clients to. But in both of those places they don't find anything. They Just confirm that no one laid eyes on Robyn since the 5th. But strangely, people had heard some weird noises coming from her apartment after the 5th. And not weird, like a struggle or something unexplained, like they were legit strange. Like it was someone playing the flute and singing in a high pitched voice.

Britt (26:08)

Oh, that's weird.

Ashley Flowers (26:09)

Unexpected.

Britt (26:10)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (26:11)

Now, Robin actually did play the flute, so maybe could have been her. But the important thing is that none of the neighbors actually laid eyes on her or saw who was in the apartment. So now Trooper Landry's sights are set squarely on bill. So on March 16, police bring him in for questioning. He's condescending and shifty, but he admits pretty quickly that he was Robin's client. The truthfulness ends there, though, because when he's asked about that cut on his head, he gives yet another story. Of course, this time he says he was mugged by two men who hit him with a metal pipe. Not his briefcase this time, but they stole the briefcase. Now, despite all the inconsistencies, Bill just doesn't strike police as their most likely suspect. They just. They don't feel it.

Britt (27:04)

Right, because stalking Robin isn't a massive red flag.

Ashley Flowers (27:08)

Yeah, I don't think they start to, like, really understand the depths of that until after their interview with him. So when they talk to him, they end up letting him go because they don't have anything to hold him on. And it's after that that JR gives them all these letters that Bill wrote to Robin, which painted a picture of a man who hoped their relationship would turn into something romantic. Like he had convinced himself that someday Robin would stop charging him and even give up sex work to be with him. But then there's this, like, tone of the letters that, like, shifts to apologetic. He's apologizing for the way he's acting. Apparently, he had insulted Robin and made her uncomfortable, and he was promising to be better for her. And sometime in between, Bill had also outlined a plan to put Robyn on the Tufts payroll by hiring her as a research assistant so she could show some kind of documented income and leave sex work behind. So, like, the plan was for Bill to submit invoices for artwork and other things that she was doing for his research projects. And even though Robin's brother remembers her being excited about this opportunity, according to Linda Wolf's reporting, no one at Tufts remembers ever seeing her in the lab. So police can't actually confirm whether or not she did that work. And she's not the only one that he put on the payroll. So Bill also put JR's ex on the payroll to somehow pay Robin even more money. Like the ex would basically go cash a check from Bill, which was from the payroll, and then that money was given to Robin. And then he would also invoice Tufts himself and use his reimbursements to pay Robyn too.

Britt (28:51)

So along with stalking, he was embezzling money from like a major university, all.

Ashley Flowers (28:57)

In an attempt to spend more time with Robyn. And this is, by the way, after only knowing her. Like this started after just a couple of weeks, according to when those letters were written. So Bill is not looking great, but they need solid proof of something. I mean, he admits to being with her around midnight on the 5th, but what happened after that? Where did she go? Was that even true? Was she ever even seen after she saw him? Those are the things they needed to figure out. So using records from Robyn's answering service, they put together a rough timeline of March 5th. What they find is that at 3pm, Robin left home to buy a birthday gift for JR's son. Around 7:45, she stopped at a bar in the Combat zone to let JR's ex know that she would pick her and her son up to go to the son's birthday party. The next morning, around 8.40pm, Robyn meets a client at a Boston high rise. But the appointment lasted less than an hour. And right before she left, at around 9:30, she called her answering service and she was told that someone claiming to be JR had called to pick up her messages. But when she called jr, he's like, nope, wasn't me.

Britt (30:09)

So we're thinking this is Bill, probably.

Ashley Flowers (30:12)

Now I'm sure that he shouldn't have had that number. That was, I mean, probably the whole point of going with the service.

Britt (30:19)

Right?

Ashley Flowers (30:19)

But stalkers can be relentless, and I don't think a number was going to stand in Bill's way. So we know she left that high rise client at around 9:45, saying that she was rushing to meet another client, quote, between the wife and kids. So Trooper Landry thinks that this was likely when Robin left to go see bill. At 10:07, we know that her answering service got a call from a guy named Joe inviting her to a party. And at 11:42, the answering service has a record of Robyn calling in and leaving a message for JR saying that she was on her way to that party. Except this isn't a true answering machine. Like there, this is a service, so there is a middleman, like taking down the messages. And the person who took this message says you know what? There was actually something really weird about that last message from Robyn. That last time that Robyn called in to say that she was on her way to Joe's party, the person who took the message said it didn't sound like her. It sounded more like a man. And while the person at the service didn't know whose voice it was, if it wasn't Robin's, they could say for sure that it at least didn't sound like JR's. But someone else working at the service says that one of the messages left by the person claiming to be Robyn sounded like a man disguising his voice to sound like a woman. And we haven't touched on this yet, but you know who has a super high pitched voice already?

Britt (31:52)

Bill.

Ashley Flowers (31:53)

Bill. So after that, there's nothing. At 9:00am the next morning, the trash bag with the bloody items are found.

Britt (32:03)

Do we know if she ever made it to that Joe's party?

Ashley Flowers (32:06)

Police don't know yet. They're still working to track down this Joe guy. So we'll come back to that. But as Trooper landry's processing this, JR actually calls him to report that a $200 check that Bill wrote to Robin on March 6 second was stopped. Now, Robin had deposited that check on March 4th again, everything she goes, like, missing, whatever, on the 5th. So either Bill or his wife Nancy had to have canceled their endorsement on the check on that day or the day after. Almost like Bill knew. Yep, knew that Robin wouldn't need that money. So on March 19, Trooper Landry questions Bill one more time, asking him to lay out the night of March 5th once again. So Bill claims that Robin stopped by his house at around 10.30pm to deliver some artwork that she'd been doing for Tufts, which I'm sure police, like, automatically believe this is a lie because they already know from JR that he's Robin's client, like, whatever. So then around midnight, she leaves, he says, to go meet this mysterious Joe. And that was allegedly the last that Bill saw of her. Trooper Landry asked Bill to tell him the whole story again, hoping to catch him in another inconsistency. But Bill just tells him a completely unrelated story. Like, he doesn't even bother. He says, you know, the Tuesday before Robin went missing, I parked my car near her apartment while I went to see a movie. And when I came back from the theater, the car was stolen. And then the next day, after meeting Robin at a motel, Bill says that he was thrown into a van, beaten up by three black men who warned him to stay Away from Robin.

Britt (33:41)

What does his car being stolen have to do with him getting beat up? Have to do with Robyn going missing?

Ashley Flowers (33:48)

None of this is connected. It's not. Everyone is confused right now. So here's the thing. So Bill claims that he didn't report this abduction to police because he didn't want his family to know that he had been with a sex worker when it happened. Okay. He's, like, letting them know now.

Britt (34:02)

I feel like Bill's living in a completely different reality than the rest of us. How is that something he thinks he can, like, hide at this point?

Ashley Flowers (34:12)

I feel you. But Trooper Landry lets Bill talk because it seems like he enjoys spinning a yarn. And what he's shooting for right now is enough to get him a search warrant. So, like, let's just let this guy ramble. And so he, like, changes the subject, and he starts asking Bill about that scar on his forehead. And Bill tells a fourth story about how he got it, and it's kind of the same as the others, but he adds details about his attackers and changes the location again. This time, he says he's attacked by two young Black men in D.C. who hit him on the head and stole his precious briefcase.

Britt (34:44)

Ashley, everyone wants this guy's briefcase.

Ashley Flowers (34:48)

I know literally everyone. And actually, this is. I haven't told you this part yet, so there are literally so many stories and anecdotes in Teresa Carpenter's book called Missing Beauty, I can't even begin to hit all of them. But there's this whole story of a time when Bill called the police saying that Robin stole his briefcase. And according to the police report, the two of them had, like, this heated argument outside of his house where she was like, give me what you took from me, and I'll give this back to you. And in the end, police were like, you two need counseling. Figure it out yourselves. Bye. And Drooper Landry actually asks him about this specific incident. And Bill's like, oh, yeah, that was nothing. We figured it out. So that just kind of gets, like, washed off. But again, like, this. I don't know what's up with this briefcase. So then Landry asked him about the stopped $200 check, which bill explains by saying that he paid Robyn the money in cash when she was at his house on the 5th, so that he just, like, canceled the check, which, like, I'm pretty sure wasn't part of his, like, original story. Like, yeah, but not important. Not important. Like, Landry, like, knows he's lying. He's pretty sure at this point that Bill murdered Robin. But for some reason, like in all of the reporting on this, like, it also seems like he feels sorry for this guy, which I don't understand.

Britt (36:02)

It's hard to imagine feeling sorry for a grown man who's cheating on his wife, embezzling from a university where he works, and oh, by the way, stalking a 21 year old girl.

Ashley Flowers (36:14)

Yeah, it seems like he's like, oh.

Britt (36:15)

Man, it's like sad sack.

Ashley Flowers (36:17)

Well, yeah, well, like this guy really like got his heart broken. Like he's. And I don't know that. It's like he's like excusing what he's done, but also like, I mean, it.

Britt (36:27)

Is kind of sad to think about how important he thinks this briefcase is.

Ashley Flowers (36:31)

I don't know, it seems like, I don't know, there's a little bit of this idea of like this vixen woman. Like, I'm telling you, this is like part of the larger story is like kind of what gets under my skin here. And it's like, I think maybe my religious trauma showing, like we used to be told like, don't tempt men. Right. Like it's our fault if a man cheats.

Britt (36:49)

Yeah. The responsibility is.

Ashley Flowers (36:51)

And there's a little bit of that that I am like reading between the lines and feeling. Anyway, Trooper Landry gives Bill one last out, one last chance to fess up. What did Robin do to make him kill her? But he still doesn't give Trooper Landry anything. So he decides to move on to Nancy, Bill's wife, and he calls her down to the station for an interview. Now her story of the night of the 5th goes like this. She got home at around 7pm Found a note from Bill saying that he was out for a walk and that Robin would be coming by at around 7:30. Now Nancy didn't want to be home when Robyn was around. Like, same girl.

Britt (37:29)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (37:30)

So she went to the mall and then she picked up two of her kids, drove home at around 11:30 where she saw Robin's car still parked in the driveway. So she kind of just drove around in the car until she knew that Robin's car was gone. She said that was around 2:15. And when she went inside, she saw Bill already asleep in his bed. And then she went to sleep in the living room.

Britt (37:53)

Okay. Something that occurred to me while you were telling me this was Robyn's car. I literally never even thought about her having a car. Do we know where it is now?

Ashley Flowers (38:03)

No. So that's actually missing along with Robyn. So they're looking for that too, but no leads on it yet. Now, Trooper Landry asked Nancy if she noticed a wound on Bill's head that night or the day after, but she says she didn't because she wasn't really even really paying close attention to Bill anymore. Like they're on, on the outs by this point, she said barely even speaking these days.

Britt (38:23)

I mean, since she found out about the cheating.

Ashley Flowers (38:26)

Exactly. I mean, when she's like found out, it's like in her face, right. And she says that they were. Everything that they were doing communication wise, she says was like happening through note. So it's bad. But even though they're distant, this dude still seems to have a hold on her because when Trooper Landry tells her point blank that Bill is a suspect in Robin's disappearance, Nancy refuses to believe it. So they're not going to get anywhere with her. Now. Luckily though, the search warrant that Trooper Landry wanted to get is approved. But investigators have their work cut out for them because Bill's house is a straight up mess. And I'm not talking about just clutter. This thing is filthy, infested with roaches. There's rotten food on the counters. It is damn near unlivable.

Britt (39:15)

It's like lisk vibes.

Ashley Flowers (39:17)

What do you mean by that?

Britt (39:18)

Wasn't his house just like a hoarder's mess?

Ashley Flowers (39:22)

Oh, yeah, I don't remember. I haven't seen the pictures in a while, but it was. I remember some of this stuff being said about his house too. I don't know what that means or what that says about them. I mean, I'm sure there's a ton of psychology behind it, but police in this situation, and maybe this is the thing across the board is when they looked at this, they said this looks like a family in crisis, which it is. This is not a happy home.

Britt (39:46)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (39:47)

And seeing that they're like, oh, maybe Nancy didn't want to talk to us today, but maybe we actually can get her to flip down the line. She may be protecting her husband now, but clearly, like, she's not living a happy life. She's not living in a happy home. We might be able to get her on our side. So Trooper Landry checks the house for places that looked cleaned up or painted over. He beelines for Bill's room, which is just as messy as the rest of the house. But in the chaos of Bill's closet, Trooper Landry finds a treasure trove of evidence. First, there are tape cassettes, which when played are recordings of Bill making harassing calls to a massage parlor that Robin used to work at. He ended up getting her fired from that job. Second, there is an audit report showing that Bill stole at least $46,000 by conning tufts.

Britt (40:40)

And that's like 80s money too.

Ashley Flowers (40:42)

80S, $46,000, right. And he also finds a long handwritten note that Bill wrote trying to come up with an explanation for his financial crimes.

Britt (40:52)

Was it a briefcase?

Ashley Flowers (40:53)

That essentially chalks it up to, like, he's under a lot of stress. And he claims that he's using the stolen money to pay off this mysterious girl who drugged him and took incriminating photos of him for blackmail. So he's like, I think, preparing his defense or testing it out. I don't know. There's also a tape recording where Bill tells his story to another person. Person. This like, co conspirator that police can't identify. And the voice could be a man's, it might be a woman's, maybe Nancy's, maybe a colleague's, even could be Robin's. They don't know. And then they find a lot more. Love letters and copies of Robin and JR's phone bills with notes in the margins like he was tracking who she was with at all times and working to uncover her other clients names. They also find a pair of Robin's underwear, two address books that were stolen from her apartment, a stack of her credit cards, a pocketbook that smells like her perfume. And chillingly, they find her flute.

Britt (41:57)

Her flute.

Ashley Flowers (41:58)

Her flute.

Britt (41:59)

So he was the one singing and.

Ashley Flowers (42:02)

Playing the flute in his high pitched voice.

Britt (42:05)

Oh, my God.

Ashley Flowers (42:06)

Every once in a while, the full body chills still get me. And when I read that, I was like imagining him in her empty apartment after he did something to her. Playing her flute, playing her flute and singing. Chills. Now the stuff that they find, the list goes on. Under the kitchen sink, there are trash bags that match the one found at the rest stop. There's also a beeper for Robyn's answering machine, which explains how he would listen to her messages. Which, like back in the day, you guys.

Britt (42:36)

A beeper. I know how to explain that.

Ashley Flowers (42:38)

How? It used to work. Like it would beep you when someone left you a message and then you would call into your machine to get your messages. And since he is the one who got her the machine, he just kept the beeper so he would know whenever she got a voicemail. And there's even a cop's card in Bill's wallet, which proves to police that Bill was the one tipping them off about Robin every time the cops were showing up at her place. And wouldn't you know it, all of his shirts are the same, same size as the one found in the bloody bag. But they actually think they can tie him to that bloody bag more conclusively because, listen, so Nancy is there when all of this is going down, and the detectives pull out the bloody blue work shirt from this evidence bag, asking like, have you seen this before? And Nancy's like, yeah, like, it. It could be. It looks like bills.

Britt (43:30)

Wait, if they have this shirt, do they already run all the tests?

Ashley Flowers (43:33)

Yeah, they did. It didn't prove anything. All it did was prove the fact that it was blood, that it was type A blood. The assumption is that it's Robin's blood on everything, but they didn't actually have Robin's blood type. So that's kind of where the bucks stopped. And I assume this evidence got, like, returned after that. But like I was saying, there is something specific on the shirt that Nancy thinks she might recognize. So there's this stitching in this, like, there was like a tear that had gotten mended in the armpit. And she's like, oh, that actually looks like my sewing. And in a move that I think surprises everyone, Nancy hands the detectives a spool of thread. And she's like, I might have used this.

Britt (44:16)

Oh, my God.

Ashley Flowers (44:16)

To fix it. And of all the things that they could have collected at this house, this is one of the most important things, because one of those spools that she hands them matches the thread. So now police can conclusively link that shirt to Bill. He is more than just a crazed stalker. He is a killer.

Britt (44:38)

Do they think that Robin was killed there in the house?

Ashley Flowers (44:42)

I don't know if they know yet. I mean, when they do luminol tests, the only hit that they get is on the pocket of a windbreaker that Bill says might be his. And then inside the pocket, they find this, like, quarter sized chunk of something gray and gooey. They're not sure what it is. They obviously take it into evidence and they're thinking like, you know, if something did happen in the house, they don't know, but they rule out the idea that he could have transported her body in one of the family cars, because those cars are both clean.

Britt (45:13)

But Robin's car is still mia.

Ashley Flowers (45:16)

Robin's car is still missing. And so they're thinking like, okay, if. If he did have to transport something, it could have happened in her car. Now, at some point, they show Bill this avalanche of evidence that they have, like while they're still there in the house. And Bill has to agree, like things don't look good for him. And he admits that the flute and the pocketbook are Robin's, but he claims he doesn't know why her other things are in his closet. Like he even suggests, like maybe JR planted them there.

Britt (45:46)

Oh, come on, dude.

Ashley Flowers (45:48)

I know. Police call him a liar. They remind him that they believe Robyn is dead and that her family deserves to bury her. But Bill insists that he told them all he knows. And now Bill wants a lawyer. Peloton has what you need to keep you on track to your goals. No matter what season of life you're in. Holiday era, pre drop off meditation era, crime solving era, whatever era of life you're in, Peloton has the class and the motivation you need to get after it. Whether you need 10, 20 or 45 minutes of you time to sweat or get grounded. Peloton provides flexibility with a daily on demand and live classes that fit your schedule in life. And with Peloton's All Access membership, you can work out where you need it and when you need it. We're heading into the holidays, folks, which not only means all the extra treats, but all the extra travel. I'm on the road a ton coming up and it's nice to have my classes come with me no matter where I am. And it's flexible. So if I want to skip a day of yoga to sleep in for Thanksgiving, I can push a little extra hard with a run a few days post turkey. Find your push. Find your power with peloton@1peloton.com when police leave Bill's house, they know that they won't get much more out of him. And Nancy and the kids are the only potential witnesses to anything that happened in that house. But despite Nancy's small gesture of help with those spools of thread, like that's it for her, like, she's not talking either and she's not letting the kids talk. Now, with no experience as a district attorney, I can confidently say that I would feel good about bringing this case to a jury. But the district attorney at the time? Not so much. There weren't a whole lot of no body cases back then. Plus there were some loose ends that they still had to tie up. Like for one, they had to prove that she never made it to that party, right? I mean, that was Bill's story, after all. Like she left his house to go to a party at some guy named Joe's. Well, guess what? Easy door to close so Landry learns that Joe never even threw a party the night that she went missing.

Britt (48:01)

So is he saying he never even left that message for her, inviting her to the party?

Ashley Flowers (48:05)

Exactly. Joe is real cool. No party.

Britt (48:10)

Got it.

Ashley Flowers (48:10)

Means he didn't call her.

Britt (48:12)

So who left the message?

Ashley Flowers (48:13)

Exactly. All of a sudden, things are shifting in police's mind because they obviously think Bill left the message, which means this feels like premeditation. Yeah, that he was, like, all, like, covering up for what was going to happen.

Britt (48:28)

Putting his ducks in a row before he even needed them.

Ashley Flowers (48:32)

So they found out that one time when Robyn came to see Joe, she had a man waiting in the car that matched the description of Bill. Or, like the. Or the car. Bill's car. So they're thinking that plus him keeping track of her calls means that Bill knew about Joe and freaking set the calls.

Britt (48:51)

Knew about Joe. So he knew who to set up to leave the message. Big quotation marks here.

Ashley Flowers (48:57)

He was planning. He was planning to kill her and planning to pin it on someone else. There is no question here. Especially after the crime lab calls. The results are back. After testing that gray glob from the windbreaker. And while there is still no body, there is no question now that Robyn is dead. The gray substance found in the windbreaker is brain matter. And about the same time Landry learns this, he also finds out from Nancy's police officer brother that her dad had lent her and Bill a sledgehammer not too long ago. That looks an awful lot like the one found in the bloody bag. But just when you think it's over for Bill, the testing said that it was brain matter, but it didn't say that it was necessarily human brain. So police have to go and rule out the possibility that maybe Bill worked with animals at the university.

Britt (50:02)

I know Bill had hired Robin. Hired Robin as an illustrator. But what. What was he a professor of again?

Ashley Flowers (50:09)

So I got confused. It wouldn't make sense. So he was actually a professor in the anatomy and cellular biology department. Oh. The artwork that he had hired her to do was like. Or allegedly do was for scientific illustrations. It's not like in the art department, so. And he was someone at the university who brought in, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars in grants for his lab, which made him a top fundraiser in his department. And like to give you an idea, most of his colleagues only worked on, like, one or two projects at a time. Time Bill worked on eight, including humane alternatives to animal testing. But the caveat here is that Landry learns none of Bill's experiments involved animal brains, or even human brains, for that matter. And ultimately, further testing does reveal that it is human brain matter. But Landry uses this opportunity to dig deeper into Tuff's investigation of Bill, and once again, it's not flattering. He learns that the colleagues and students who reported to him in the lab call him the man because he didn't like to be contradicted or questioned. He took out his anger on subordinates, so they were always on edge around him. And that's probably why Bill was able to hide his, like, expenses or his embezzling for so long. Like, when circumstances, someone from accounting came knocking, they would, like, leave with their tail between their legs. But eventually it was discovered Tufts suspended him back in January, but Bill refused to sign anything where he admitted to any wrongdoing, which is why he was able to interview for a new professorship in upstate New York. So police check in with those university officials and learn that Bill visited from February 13 to February 18 to lecture after being offered a tenure track position. Now, Robin actually went with him on that trip, and he introduced her as a grad student checking out the school. But later, when they saw her face in the papers and realized that Bill was being investigated for her disappearance, they rescinded the offer.

Britt (52:14)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (52:15)

Now, this is when there is a big shakeup. So, Trooper Landry has clearly gotten this far, but it seems like maybe he's been a little sloppy on the back end, because in a case that clearly needs to be super buttoned up to go to court, turns out the dude hasn't done his paperwork. Like, he's been also super possessive of the case, and he had an upcoming retirement plan before Robin's case fell into his lap. And though he was super invested in her case, he does end up retiring as planned, only weeks after Robin's disappearance. So, like, there's this big changeover, and the case ends up going to someone.

Britt (52:50)

Else, like, basically next available.

Ashley Flowers (52:52)

Yeah, and this person's top priority is finding Robin's body, Like, number one priority. So police and private searchers hired by Robin's family search a lot of land that Bill's family owns, including ponds and wooded areas close to their house, even the Boston Harbor. But Robyn is nowhere. Her family even wonders if Bill might have insisted incinerated her body somewhere at Tufts, but they decided that Bill wasn't actually fit enough to carry a body for such a long distance. Or certainly not without being noticed.

Britt (53:26)

Well, what about that accomplice we heard on the recording? I feel like we mentioned that it's a Big deal. But I mean, a possibility.

Ashley Flowers (53:34)

So they're thinking that maybe that person is Nancy. And that's because they also learned Nancy was on the phone with Bill a lot on March 4th, and she was actually the one who stopped that $200 check to Robyn.

Britt (53:51)

Which is interesting, because prior to this, they were only communicating through, like, notes.

Ashley Flowers (53:57)

Right. So to police, this proves that she is lying through her teeth about that and probably everything else. And what's interesting is that Bill and Nancy's phone calls didn't stop after Robin's visit to their house. So they can see that Bill made six calls between the evening of March 5th and the morning of March 6th. So we've got a call at 10:07pm that is to Robin's answering service, aka fake Joe message, I'm having a party. Then at 11:42, he makes a call to the answering service where he pretends to be Robin, saying, I'm going to the party. Then the next two calls are made just before midnight. They are to Bill's house, likely to Nancy from a payphone right across the highway from the rest stop where everything was found.

Britt (54:45)

Where are they getting these records from?

Ashley Flowers (54:47)

His credit card. He used his credit card to pay for the calls. What I know. Now, the next call to his house is at 2:12am from Boston. Now, because Boston is in the opposite direction from where Bill dumped the trash bag, police think that Bill was trying to frame the client at first, that Robin had just met up with before she was at Bill's house by parking her car near his high rise. But then they think something happened, the plan changed. Because at 5:29am and then 6:51am he made more calls to his house from Rhode Island. And then at 1pm he calls Robin's answering machine again. And this is on her records. And it's a call about meeting someone named John. But, like, again, this is totally fake. And then they know that he bought an Amtrak ticket from New York to D.C. at around 8pm and he made one last call home at 9:17pm from Connecticut. And then police do end up getting Amtrak's records, and they confirm that he got on the train to D.C. at.

Britt (55:50)

3:33Am for the conference where they originally found him.

Ashley Flowers (55:54)

The PIs. Yeah. Now, his credit card records also show that since Robin disappeared, Bill made a film few calls from Rhode island, which make police think that maybe that's where Robin's body is. And they think that maybe he's gonna go back to visit or has or whatever. Like he's got no other reason to be there, as far as they know.

Britt (56:15)

I mean, but do they even know where in Rhode island to start looking?

Ashley Flowers (56:19)

They have some theories. Like, he made the calls he made, or at least some of them were from a shopping mall in Warwick, Rhode Island. And they know that he actually studied at Brown. And the woods near Warwick or the area around campus in Providence would probably be familiar enough areas for him to, like, go and bury a body. We know that people tend to go to places they know familiar places. So police are pretty sure that they're gonna find Robin's body within a day. I mean, that's. They're confident. But when they check the mall, no one there can confirm that they recognize Bill. And, like, they actually end up getting nothing. And as if all of this isn't hard enough for Robyn's family, close to Easter, her parents get this weird telegram. Supposedly, it's from Robyn. Now, Robyn, feel my air quotes. Says, she's in Vegas. Don't look for her. Don't tell J.R. where I am.

Britt (57:11)

Literally no one is looking at J.R. bill, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

Ashley Flowers (57:15)

And immediately, her parents know this is fake. It's not from her because they know that Robyn always signs her notes to them with her nickname, which is Bin Bin. And this one wasn't signed that way.

Britt (57:27)

This is, like, today a text being from someone else. Because they don't text the same way. Exactly. This is a telegram form of this.

Ashley Flowers (57:33)

Exactly.

Britt (57:34)

And what does Bills have to say about this telegram?

Ashley Flowers (57:36)

I don't. Honestly, I don't even know if they ever questioned him about it, like. Or I don't. Or they might. Just might be something they keep in their back pocket. But I know right now, Bill's life is unraveling. So he finally resigns from Tufts. He is charged with larceny. The media is now widely reporting his involvement in Robin's disappearance. So everyone knows who this guy is, But Bill is acting like everything's fine, like, nothing on fire around him. He even is back at the combat zone trying to hire sex workers. And this goes on until July, when police finally catch a break. On July 16, officers in New York City notice a car that is covered in dust parked in a towaway zone. The plates are missing. Everything has been scratched off except for the vin, which is, like, by the way, if you're gonna scratch something off.

Britt (58:25)

That'S the number one thing you're supposed to scratch. Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (58:28)

So they run it. They find out that the car has been reported stolen and it belongs to a missing woman. And when they open the car up, they are hit with the smell that you cannot mistake. Immediately, they get decomp. Now, there's no body inside, but there is lots of blood. And when they look closer, they find more of that gray tissue that they found in Bill's windbreaker.

Britt (58:56)

Brain matter.

Ashley Flowers (58:57)

Now, this isn't Robin's body, right? But man, it's close as you can get. Someone's blood is all over this car. Someone's brain matter. They just have to prove it's Robin's. So they look to a new type of genetic testing used in a nobody case in Oklahoma. They want to prove that this blood in the car belongs to their victim. Now, the state crime lab can't do this yet. We're obviously talking about DNA. So they send the blood samples that they've collected, along with samples from Robin's family to the FBI, who confirm that the blood type is type A and shares traits with samples that police got from the Benedict family. And they definitely rule out that the blood belonged to Bill, so, not his. Now, the media had already latched onto this story. But once a grand jury is called to decide whether Bill will be indicted, it becomes a full on frenzy. And that frenzy plays in Bill's favor because it gets the attention of a high profile defense attorney who is great at manipulating the press. He gets someone to print a quote from him in black and white, calling Robin a, quote, blackmailing whore. And he comes up with publicity stunts, like trying to hire an actress who looks like Robin to walk in the courtroom wearing a veil to show that maybe she's alive out there somewhere.

Britt (60:23)

How does the court allow that?

Ashley Flowers (60:25)

I don't know. If they do. There's like, the sources conflict. Like, I don't think the stunt ended up happening. It was just like this idea that got thrown out and probably kibosh before he could. Yeah. But even with all the drama, the grand jury still indicts Bill for first degree murder. His trial is set for April of 1984. But even when they go to trial, there are still so many unanswered questions. Like, even though the grand jury declined to indict her, was Nancy involved? Like, what did Bill's kids see? Note, none of the questions seem to be about Bill's guilt.

Britt (61:00)

Which, like, the details of it.

Ashley Flowers (61:02)

Yeah. Which, like, I feel he senses because on the first day of his trial, Bill says that he wants to change his plea to guilty, but of manslaughter. It seems like a little backroom wheeling and dealing was done because the prosecution actually okays this what about Robin's family?

Britt (61:23)

Are they okay with it?

Ashley Flowers (61:24)

So here's the deal. Without Robin's body, prosecutors level with them and they're like, listen, like, the best conviction we can hope for, even, is second degree murder. The maximum sentence for that is only two years longer than manslaughter.

Britt (61:40)

And if we go to trial, it's a question mark on whether or not.

Ashley Flowers (61:43)

We get that question mark, whether you get that. And even if you get that, at no point would Bill be obligated to tell them where Robin's body was. But if we make this deal with him, part of what they incorporated into this deal was like, okay, if you plead, if we give you manslaughter and you plead guilty, you have to take us to her body. So that's what he agreed to. That's what her family agreed to because they just want to bring Robin home. So after the announcement of Bill's guilty plea, the courtroom erupts in cheers that lasts literally so long, the judge has to call for a silence. And then the prosecution spends about 45 minutes laying out their case against Bill. And after quickly apologizing to the judge, apologizing to Robin's family and his own family, Bill is taken away to go make his confession. Peloton has what you need to keep you on track to your goals. No matter what season of life you're in. Holiday era, pre drop off meditation era, crime solving era, whatever era of life you're in, Peloton has the class and the motivation you need to get after it. Whether you need 10, 20, or 45 minutes of you time to sweat or get grounded, Peloton provides flexibility with a daily on demand and live classes that fit your schedule in life. And with peloton's all access membership, you can work out where you need it and when you need it. We're heading into the holidays, folks, which not only means all the extra treats, but all the extra travel. I'm on the road a ton coming up, and it's nice to have my classes come with me no matter where I am. And it's flexible. So if I want to skip a day of yoga to sleep in for Thanksgiving, I can push a little extra hard with a run a few days post turkey. Find your push, find your power with peloton@1peloton.com Now, Bill starts from the trip to upstate New York in February, and he proceeds to tell what I believe to be an absolutely bogus story.

Britt (63:44)

Great.

Ashley Flowers (63:45)

What you need to know is that trip to New York, the one where Bill Interviewed for that professorship. He claims that Robyn was trying to get him to give her $5,000 for going on that trip with him. The briefcase story where he said she stole it, whatever, he says, that's a lie. But she kept threatening him for this $5,000, and he was afraid that, like, she or someone she knew was gonna hurt him somehow. Like, I don't know. But this goes on until finally he gets to the. The night of March 5th. He claims that night Robin showed up at his house with the sledgehammer, which, yes, was his, by the way, but he had, like, let her borrow it. I know what you're gonna say. He let her borrow it for some work on her house, and he says she shows up with it hidden under her jacket. Like, the jacket's, like, thrown over her arm. They go up to the bedroom, unaware of this concealed sledgehammer. And he offered her, like, whatever money he had, but it wasn't the full $5,000. So he says Robyn attacked him with the sledgehammer. He says she hit him several times, which police, to be clear, do not think she could have done. Like, at her height and weight, which they know to be small in both categories, it would have been hard for her to land any blows on Bill. But Bill says one of those strikes led to the head wound that he had lied so many times about. But by the way, like, to police, that wound looked more like a cut than, like, the wound a sledgehammer would leave by someone attacking you. But anyways, Bill claims he wrestles this sledgehammer away from Robyn. They struggled somehow on his bed. No surprise. Cause he's full of it. He says he can't pin down exactly everything that happened. But she fought back. She bit his leg. So Bill had no choice but to hit her on the head with a sledgehammer, quote, two or three times.

Britt (65:37)

And then what? He beats her again in her car? Because that seems like where the attack happened.

Ashley Flowers (65:43)

I don't know if that's the case, actually. So I know that there's blood all over the car. There's maybe mention of that brain matter. But nobody ever says that is actually where the attack happens. It's certainly not in Bill's story. I mean, there is. The one thing I'll say is there's a possibility that it happened in the house. And the only reason they never found blood there could be because. And to me, this is wild. Police never tested the bed itself because Bill, when they were searching the house, was, like, taking a nap on it. So they just left the Bed. Alone.

Britt (66:18)

The bed.

Ashley Flowers (66:19)

I know where he killed her. I know. Or he says he killed her, but that never got tested, so we don't know.

Britt (66:25)

Okay. Where does all the premeditation fit in, though? Like, the call's pretending to be Joe. The call's pretending to be Robyn herself.

Ashley Flowers (66:33)

He says he only did all of that because he was teasing Robin.

Britt (66:37)

Okay.

Ashley Flowers (66:37)

And he said he did that because she kept him waiting for hours before she finally showed up. And so he's like, you know, if she's gonna waste my time, I'm gonna waste her time.

Britt (66:45)

Just convenient timing to tease her.

Ashley Flowers (66:47)

Mm. Now, he said after he killed Robyn, he was terrified because his wife and kids were gonna walk through the door any minute. So he cleans up the crime scene as best he could, wrapped her body in his comforter, and dragged her to her car before putting her body in the trunk and driving away. Then he made that call home to Nancy, who he claims he didn't tell anything to before dumping the trash bag at the rest stop and then calling Nancy again.

Britt (67:13)

Let me guess. Still didn't say anything to her.

Ashley Flowers (67:15)

He only told her that he had a problem. So he ends up pulling into a Rhode island shopping center near where he and his family lived while he was studying at Brown. So, again, still familiar with this area, he said he backed up to a dumpster and threw what he called the material inside the dumpster.

Britt (67:33)

The material is.

Ashley Flowers (67:34)

It's her body, but her body, it's her. The material. And then Bill says something that makes everyone's skin crawl. He says that when police find Robin's body, she'll be wearing her clothes and that there was no, quote, monkey business. So after leaving her body in the dumpster and dumping more evidence in other ones around Rhode island, he says he got rid of her car, and he only admitted to Nancy what he'd done when he got back to Massachusetts. Now, the whole confession, this thing takes, like, four hours to get through, but it feels like a waste of four hours because no one thinks he's telling the truth.

Britt (68:16)

I mean, same.

Ashley Flowers (68:17)

Yeah. And guess what is not there when they go looking? They can't find the dumpster at the location that Bill described.

Britt (68:25)

Oh, not even. Not. Not her bobbin, but not even the dumpster?

Ashley Flowers (68:29)

No. So after this, like, when they go back to him and they're, like, part of the deal was and it's not matching up, he's like, oh, you know what? Like, let me be hypnotized to try and remember exactly, like, where it was and what it looked like, and this hypnosis seems to be conducted by his defense team, which I don't understand. But when he goes under and he's at his point of being at the dumpster, the hypnotist asks him if he sees any letters or numbers. And first he says this, like, series of numbers, and then he whispers, it's not me by the dumpster. It's not me by the dumpster. It's not me by the dumpster.

Britt (69:07)

What does that even mean?

Ashley Flowers (69:09)

Is it. I don't know. Cause he says it three times, whispering like that. Is it that he's got like a. I mean, how many times have we had killers be like, something took over? It was this dark presence. Is it not him? Is. Is there someone else there?

Britt (69:20)

Can I be like a true skeptic and be like, was he actually under hypnosis at all? And was he just throwing this line out there, quote unquote, under hypnosis?

Ashley Flowers (69:31)

I don't know. Nobody seems to ask him. Like, there's no follow up then or after, which kind of leaves this frustrating loose end to never be tied up. Or to your point, everyone's just like, doesn't believe it to begin with.

Britt (69:44)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (69:44)

But the session does lead police to a dumpster with a serial number similar to the one Bill gave them. Now, this dumpster supposedly empties into a massive Rhode island landfill. So by now, if Robin's body had been taken there, it is probably buried under tons of trash. And a search of the landfill would cost the state something like $150,000. Again, 80s money at the time. So they end up choosing not to approve it, assuming whatever is left of Robin would be too hard to identify Anyway, if that's right, Bill's story is actually true. Yeah. Privately, some members of law enforcement aren't even sure that he's telling the truth about the dumpster at all. I mean, like, what has he been honest about so far? Why would he about this? And what I think about is someone who is like, this obsessed with possessing her. Like, how can they be sure he didn't bury Robin somewhere that he could visit? Like, holding onto this last bit of.

Britt (70:46)

Power over possessing her through the end?

Ashley Flowers (70:48)

Yeah. So ultimately, he's given the maximum sentence of 18 to 20 years, but he could get paroled as early as 12. He stood a good chance of getting paroled because even after the trial, the media took his side. They republish his version of events. I mean, they interview Nancy about the cutting edge work that her husband had done to save parents premature Babies. So they're, like, making him out to be this hero. And then it is, like, sickening the way that they tried to destroy Robin. Like, I don't know why we're all intent on hating women so much. This man was a monster. And there is a moment in journalist Linda Wolf's book where she's talking about how Robin's parents say how much she meant to them and how nothing could make them love her less. And Linda actually questions whether that could be true after what they heard during.

Britt (71:44)

Trial, which, like, Linda questions her parents love for their murdered daughter despite anything she did in her life.

Ashley Flowers (71:55)

As a mother, especially as a parent.

Britt (71:57)

I'm thinking, like, I'm, like, going through a Rolodex of things that we've talked about. Like, if my kids did this, like, any of it, would it change my perspective of them? Yes. Would it change our relationship? Possibly. Would it change how much I love them?

Ashley Flowers (72:11)

That's what I'm telling you. The way that people write about this, it's like I go back to that, like, moment where in the. In the interview room where, like, Bill, you know, she broke his heart, man. And he's this, like. He's this great guy.

Britt (72:24)

Like, how he ends up being the sympathetic character in this is, like, rage inducing.

Ashley Flowers (72:29)

But this is. This is the example of how Robin's story somehow has kept getting twisted in her killer's favor. Her family, I mean, would go on to get harassing phone calls where people would call Robin these horrible names. And when they petitioned the court for Robin's case file to use in civil suits, they got denied for no clear reason. And in Don Stradley's book, Boston Tabloid, there is speculation that denial may have been because of racism. Like I said, Robin was his, and most of her family and friends weren't white. And it seems like almost everyone judged them by what they had heard about the case. And eventually, Robyn's family gets tired of having to constantly prove that their daughter was the victim in this case and not Bill, which is exhausting.

Britt (73:19)

Yeah. So what happens to poor Professor Bill?

Ashley Flowers (73:24)

He plays the model prisoner. Nancy visits him three times a week, once a week with the kids. But from what I read in the Boston tabloid, his good streak ends in 1987. So he gets caught engaging in a sexual act with a visitor, not his wife, in case you had any doubts about that. Shocker. Eventually, he and Nancy do divorce. He marries this other woman while still in prison. Oh, and he tries to write a book about what he did to make some extra cash and Then he gets released on June 3, 1993, after less than nine years. When he does get released, Robyn's mom asked to meet with him, like, hoping that he would finally tell the truth about what he did to her daughter. Like, now that you can't. You can't be tried for anything else. Like, it's over. But he stuck to his story.

Britt (74:15)

Is he still alive?

Ashley Flowers (74:16)

No. So Bill died in 2015 at an assistant living facility.

Britt (74:20)

Did they ever try meeting with Nancy, like, after she divorced Bill or Bill divorced her, whichever happened first, or even the kids?

Ashley Flowers (74:28)

No. So I. It was one of the questions that I asked Richard. So he remembers that it got too hard for his mom to, like, keep rehashing Robyn's death, Like, especially knowing that every time she. She would just get hate. Like, it's not even like, she had support to do this, and.

Britt (74:43)

Or even.

Ashley Flowers (74:44)

It's not like she didn't, like, didn't have the support and was just doing it on her own. She had, like, the opposition of it.

Britt (74:49)

Yeah. I was gonna say, even after it was all said and done, there was nothing. Like, she wasn't even instigating anything. She was just existing in this state of, like, constant grief without her child.

Ashley Flowers (75:00)

Yeah.

Britt (75:00)

And then she's getting harassment, and if.

Ashley Flowers (75:02)

She tried to do anything, she's like, everyone took Bill's side, and at some point, you're like, I'm living in an alternate universe. And, like, why even try? Like, it doesn't make sense.

Britt (75:11)

The least I can do is lessen the active harassment against me.

Ashley Flowers (75:16)

I mean, I think Bill was counting on no one caring about Robyn to look into her death when this all started. And if they did, he was counting on the fact that no one would believe her loved ones over him. And it helped him that at the time, Massachusetts didn't have any laws against stalking. I mean, I think it's clear now that Bill was a textbook stalker. He was using technology to monitor Robin's movements, money to control her. And as stalking can often do, it escalated into brutal violence. Robyn is still missing. Her body has never been found, and her story has mostly been told through her killer, erasing who she was in life. When we talked to Richard, he shared memories with us of her. He remembers her as this artistic little girl who signed her name with, like, a tiny little bumblebee. She loved music, and she played the flute so well, like, you couldn't tell if she was practicing or the song was being played on the radio. She grew into a brave young woman who jumped unafraid into the water for midnight swims. Robin was someone who had her whole life ahead of her. She had big dreams for her future, like owning her own business and having her artwork shown in a major gallery. The last time that Richard saw Robin was just a few days before she disappeared. She stayed with her parents for two days to spend some quality time with him while he was on leave from the Navy. He says they shopped, they hung out, they laughed, they talked. But before he left, Robin gave him this photo to take back to the ship with him. And he didn't think much of it at the time. He just, like, hung it up in his locker. But after she went missing, he took that photo out and turned it over, and he saw something that he had never seen before. On the back of the photo, Robyn had written, this is something to remember me by. For Richard, Robin was the family peacemaker, the one who always advocated for her siblings with their parents and knew exactly how to smooth over any conflict. And in many ways, her death tore his family apart. But he said it also kept them close and all of them are still looking for her. Like some investigators, Richard believes that Bill did not tell the truth about where he put Robin's body. We know that the night of March 5, 1983, he drove Robin's silver Toyota Starlet with a black racing stripe through New England from Massachusetts to Rhode island to Connecticut and New York. And even though Robin's case is closed, if you have any information about Bill's move movements or where Robyn would be, her family would be forever grateful. While they declined to comment for this episode, it has always been believed that maybe Bill's kids saw or knew something. But they were minors at the time, so forcing them to testify against their dad wasn't something the prosecution wanted to do. But they would be adults now, maybe with kids of their own. Maybe they have no idea that something they know could bring a small amount of healing to a family who's been hurting for a very long time. Maybe there are people out there who saw Bill that night or know the location of Robyn's body. If so, you can reach out to the Massachusetts State Police with tips. We will have a link to their office in the show notes.

Britt (78:32)

And if you or someone you know is a victim of stalking, please know that resources are available. You can reach out to the Victim Connect resource center by phone or text at 1-855-484-2846, or you can chat online@victimconnect.org you can also contact the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233 or RAINN's national sexual abuse hotline at 1-800-656-4673. And all of those and more resources will be linked in the show notes as well.

Ashley Flowers (79:22)

You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com.

Britt (79:28)

And you can follow us on Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast.

Ashley Flowers (79:31)

We'll be back next week with a brand new Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? Want the same expert advice you get.

Britt (80:19)

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Ashley Flowers (80:20)

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Britt (80:28)

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Ashley Flowers (80:31)

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