MURDERED: Roger "Fred" Farmer

Summary

Crime Junkie Podcast Summary

Episode: MURDERED: Roger "Fred" Farmer
Host: Ashley Flowers
Co-Host: Brit Prawat
Presented by: audiochuck Media Company
Release Date: [Insert Release Date if known]

---

Introduction

In this gripping episode of Crime Junkie, host Ashley Flowers delves into the mysterious disappearance and subsequent murder of Roger "Fred" Farmer, a resident of Indianapolis. Joined by Detective Larry Krasnoy of the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department (IMPD) and co-host Brit Prawat, Ashley unpacks the intricate details surrounding Fred’s disappearance, the investigation that ensued, and the familial tensions that may have led to his untimely death.

---

The Disappearance of Fred Farmer

The story begins in early January 2020 when Detective Larry Krasnoy is contacted by an old Facebook friend of Fred’s. This friend, having received unusual text messages from Fred—characterized by their proper grammar and emojis, which were atypical of Fred’s usual communication style—raises alarm as Fred had not been heard from since mid-November. Despite Fred’s claim of being on a hunting trip, no one was aware of his whereabouts during this period.

Ashley Flowers (00:50): "This is the story of Roger Fred Farmer. It's only a couple of days into January 2020 when Detective Larry Krasnoy is contacted by an old friend."

Detective Krasnoy, sensing something amiss, decides to investigate further. He discovers that Fred had been reported missing on December 27, 2019, by his daughter Christina, although there’s some inconsistency regarding the exact date Fred was last seen.

---

Initial Investigation and Suspicious Findings

Upon reviewing Fred’s financial records, Detective Krasnoy notes unusual transactions that deviate from Fred’s typical spending habits. The most alarming was a $225.73 purchase at Lowe's on November 18th, captured via security footage—revealing that the transaction was made by Jeremy, Fred’s 35-year-old son.

Ashley Flowers (08:52): "It is her 35 year old brother, Jeremy. And Christina told us in that moment she knew that her brother had something to do with her dad's disappearance."

Jeremy, known for his troubled past and substance use disorder, becomes the prime suspect. The investigation uncovers a fraught relationship between Jeremy and Fred, marked by constant arguments and financial misconduct on Jeremy’s part, including unauthorized use of Fred’s credit cards.

---

Building the Case Against Jeremy

Detective Krasnoy gathers compelling evidence against Jeremy:

1. Financial Misconduct: Jeremy had a history of stealing from Fred, including opening fraudulent accounts and misusing credit cards.
2. Contradictory Alibis: Phone records show both Fred and Jeremy’s phones were in the same location at the same time, contradicting Jeremy’s claims that Fred was on a hunting trip.
3. Physical Evidence: During a search of Fred’s home, Detective Krasnoy discovers a Lowe’s receipt for items that essentially form a "murder kit" (e.g., heavy-duty cleaning supplies, gloves, air fresheners) and Fred’s dentures—an item Fred never left the house without.
4. Crossbow Evidence: The crossbow, which Fred mentioned bringing on the hunting trip, was found pawned by Jeremy and had altered parts, further implicating him.

Detective Krasnoy (31:19): “Any crime junkies listening to this should see that receipt and know exactly what that means.”

---

Interrogation and Arrest

Despite accumulating circumstantial evidence, Detective Krasnoy faces the challenge of lacking direct proof. When he confronts Jeremy, the suspect exhibits evasive behavior and provides flimsy alibis, ultimately leading Jeremy to request an attorney and walk out of the interview.

Jeremy Farmer (36:02): “I can't believe you still think that...”

Faced with insufficient immediate evidence, Detective Krasnoy continues his investigation, conducting searches and leveraging further financial discrepancies. By February 2021, the case against Jeremy solidifies enough for an arrest, despite the absence of a body or murder weapon.

---

The Discovery and Trial

In a dramatic turn of events, Fred’s remains are discovered in May 2021 at a storage facility in Brownsburg, Indiana. The body was found in a meticulously concealed setup, suggesting premeditation and an attempt to hide the crime.

Detective Krasnoy (39:54): “Underneath, they find that the lid secured with the zip ties. Those are painstakingly cut off and bagged one by one.”

Forensic analysis confirms that Fred died from a single gunshot wound to the head. Manipulative actions by Jeremy, including attempts to cover up the crime and inconsistent testimonies, culminate in his trial in April 2023. Despite Jeremy’s claims of self-defense—a narrative that crumbles under scrutiny—the jury convicts him, sentencing him to 57 years in prison.

---

Aftermath and Reflections

The conviction brings legal closure but leaves deep emotional scars on the family. Christina and Trisha, Fred’s daughters, grapple with the loss of their father and the dissolution of their relationship with Jeremy. The episode highlights the complexities of familial bonds, financial trust, and the devastating impact of deceit and manipulation.

Ashley Flowers (43:28): “They think maybe he had help in the coverup of it all. I mean, like, when you think about it, Fred was a grown man. Could Jeremy have gotten him into the trash can himself and then transported him to that storage facility alone? Maybe. But I think it's also very possible he had help.”

Detective Krasnoy remains convinced that Jeremy acted alone, though there remains speculation about possible accomplices, adding layers of mystery to the case.

---

Conclusion

Ashley Flowers concludes the episode by honoring Fred’s memory, emphasizing his role as a beloved father and community member. The tragic story serves as a poignant reminder of how personal conflicts and hidden truths can escalate into irreversible consequences.

Ashley Flowers (44:58): “But those questions aren't just for Jeremy, though, because they don't think that he was acting alone. So what if not in the murder itself? They think he at least had help in the COVID up.”

Ultimately, Crime Junkie presents a thorough exploration of Roger "Fred" Farmer’s disappearance and murder, weaving together investigative insights, emotional narratives, and the relentless pursuit of justice by Detective Krasnoy.

---

Key Takeaways

• Suspicious Communication: Uncharacteristic text messages from Fred raised initial red flags.
• Financial Irregularities: Unauthorized use of Fred’s credit cards by Jeremy pointed to financial motives.
• Evasive Behavior: Jeremy’s inconsistent alibis and suspicious purchases strengthened the case against him.
• Lack of Direct Evidence: The absence of a body and murder weapon initially hindered the investigation.
• Conviction Despite Circumstantial Evidence: Jeremy’s trial culminated in a conviction based largely on circumstantial evidence and forensic findings.

---

Notable Quotes

• Detective Krasnoy (00:58): "I know the type."
• Ashley Flowers (17:01): "Now, Jeremy hadn't confessed to him. This is like second, third hand information."
• Detective Krasnoy (31:19): “Any crime junkies listening to this should see that receipt and know exactly what that means.”
• Detective Krasnoy (39:54): “Underneath, they find that the lid secured with the zip ties. Those are painstakingly cut off and bagged one by one.”

---

For more detailed information and source material, visit crimejunkiepodcast.com.

---

This summary is intended to provide an overview of the podcast episode and does not contain all the intricate details discussed in the original content.

Transcript

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi everyone, it's Ashley Flowers. If you can't get enough true crime, trust me, you're not alone. I recently had a chance to sit down with Anna Kendrick to talk about her directorial debut, Woman of the Hour, which is her new movie about the chilling true story of the Dating Game killer. We also go into how Anna went from being a casual true crime fan to someone who loves getting deep into the details and how personal experience experiences can shape our empathy for these real life cases. You can catch our full conversation in the Crime Junkie feed by listening to the episode Anna Kendrick is cjaf. Listen now. Wherever you get your podcasts, let's make sure your goals never miss a beat. Northwestern Mutual Financial Advisors are expert listeners. They hear what's important to you and help make it happen. It's a better way to money. Let's get [e-mail] the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company Milwaukee, Wisconsin Carl's Jr. S.

[Brit]

Big Carl fans know nothing beats the layers and layers of flavor of a Big Carl. Nothing beats that char, boiled beef, American cheese and tangy Carl's classic sauce. Nothing except getting a second big carl for just $1. Big carl just one ups itself for just one buck. Then buy one big carl. Get one for a buck. Deal only at carl's junior big burger. Good Burger available for a limited time at participating restaurants. Tax not included. Price may vary. Not valid with any other offer, discount or combo.

[Treadwell]

Want the same expert advice you get from the pros in the store while shopping [e-mail] Meet Treadwell, your personal online tire guide that matches you with the perfect tire for your vehicle. Get your best match in one minute or less with Treadwell by discount Tire. Let's get you taken care of.

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

[Detective Krasnoy]

And I'm Brit.

[Ashley Flowers]

And the story I have for you today, it actually takes place in our own backyard of Indianapolis. And it's about a case that felt really clear cut right from the get go. But it took some time to get right and even after justice was served, there are still some questions about the whole truth of the story. This is the story of Roger Fred Farmer. It's only a couple of days into January 2020 when Detective Larry Krasinoy is contacted by an old friend. They're not close. This guy's one of those Facebook friends that you don't really talk to irl, but you kind of just like keep tabs on like social media. Yeah, but per this guy's message, he's reaching out now because he knows that Detective Krasnoy is a homicide detective with IMPD Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. And he wants to pick his brain because this friend explains that he has gotten a few strange text messages from one of his. His friends, a man named Roger Farmer, who everyone calls Fred. Now, the content of the messages wasn't all that concerning, but it was actually the way they were written that is throwing up some red flags, because Fred is known for pretty much exclusively using talk to text. So all of his messages are usually just like one run on sentence.

[Detective Krasnoy]

I know the type. Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yes. But the text that he's gotten recently, they're, you know, using punctuation, proper grammar, emojis. Fred does not use emojis. And to make things more concerning, no one's actually seen Fred since around mid November, which is out of the ordinary. Now, allegedly, he's on a hunting trip, but no one he's talked to seems to know where he's hunting.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Yeah, my spidey senses are tingling.

[Ashley Flowers]

Detective Krasnoy's are too. I mean, this guy's been in the game long enough to know that these aren't good signs. So he decides he's gonna do this friend a solid and he's gonna look into it. And when he does, he learns that Fred has already been reported missing, and a detective is already on the case. Great. Maybe this Facebook friend just didn't know that. But as the helpful guy he is, the detective decides not just to drop it there. He wants to actually help look into this missing person's case. But, you know, there are rules. He's not trying to step on any toes, right? So he goes to his supervisors, briefs them on the little bit of information he's got, and everyone is pretty much like, okay, yeah, you're right. This isn' so he gets permission to speak with and possibly assist the missing persons detective assigned to Fred's case. And within days, he makes contact with that detective. And she is of the opinion that Fred's disappearance probably isn't a disappearance. It is likely a homicide. So she agrees to let Detective Krasnoy help her out. So he digs in and learns what's already been done to try and find Fred. He was reported missing on December 27, 2019, by his daughter Christina. Now, the date she last saw her dad varies a little bit based on who you talk to, because Christina herself told us that it was November 7th, but Detective Krasnoy told us that he later ends up believing it may have actually been November 6th. And even if you look up this case, you're going to find a court document that says November 22nd. So it's a little all over the map, but based on everyone we've spoken to, everything we've seen, I think the 22nd is inaccurate. I really do think we're looking at November 6th or 7th.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Okay.

[Ashley Flowers]

Anyway, Christina says that the last time anyone saw her dad, he was at his house on the west side of Indianapolis, and he was getting ready to go on a hunting trip. Now, Thanksgiving was on the 28th that year, so they'd expect him to be back around that time or at least call. Except he didn't. Now, Christina, her sister Trisha and other members of their family had gotten some texts. But just like the ones that Fred's friend had gotten, they weren't convinced the messages were actually coming from Fred. And some of the messages were just about his hunting trip. Others were talking about how it had rained. Some say that his truck got stuck in the mud, and he, like, couldn't get it out.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Like, was he asking for help in these texts?

[Ashley Flowers]

No, I don't think so. I think he was just, like, letting them know. And they didn't think that there could be confusion about that or anything because supposedly he was on this trip with other people.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Okay.

[Ashley Flowers]

Like, plus, he's, like, 58. He can take care of himself.

[Detective Krasnoy]

It was just something that happened, right?

[Ashley Flowers]

And he's been texting after he told them that, and so they figure, like, oh, everything's fine. You got out. No big deal. But you can only say you're fine so many times before people start to worry. And once they were worried is when they started going back and really reading those messages and, like, scrutinizing them. So by the time Christmas came and he was still MIA and only sending those strange texts, his family at that point is like, oh, hell no. Like, this is not our dad. But before Christina made the missing persons report, she went to her dad's house just to be extra sure, or maybe to even get confirmation of what she was already believing. And while she's there, she noticed a bank statement. And when she opens it, her heart sinks because she saw that her dad's account was in the negative. And Fred wasn't a rich man by any means. Like, but he was smart with his money. This dude would never have spent so much that his account was drained or overdrawn, right? So that's when she goes and she files the report on December 27. And then on the 28th, the Missing Persons detective was assigned to the case. Now, that detective got access to Fred's financial records and confirmed not only were his accounts overdrawn, but there were also transactions made mid to late November and throughout December that weren't at or for places Fred would normally go, like bars and restaurants all around the west side of Indy or the surrounding suburbs. Nowhere near any of Fred's usual, like, out of town hunting spots where he's supposed to be. And there's one transaction in particular that stood out to the detective. It was a purchase made at a Lowe's for $225.73 on November 18th. Now, thanks be to the hardware gods, Lowe's is apparently the only place on earth that keeps security footage for a while. So the detectives were able to actually pull footage of the person using the card for that transaction. And no surprise here, not Fred. It was a younger guy. So they go, they show this image to Fred's daughter, and she recognizes the person instantly. It is her 35 year old brother, Jeremy. And Christina told us in that moment she knew that her brother had something to do with her dad's disappearance.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Did she like, fall out of her chair shocked, or like, what's the deal with her brother? I guess like, I'm imagining my little brother, baby David.

[Ashley Flowers]

Like, I know. No. So, I mean, I don't know in that moment, like, what she was thinking. I don't think anyone suspects their brother's capable of doing something to their own dad. But Jeremy had been kind of the troubled sibling. Like, he didn't have much of a criminal history. Like a few minor things, nothing violent, but he did struggle with substance use disorder. And I know he didn't get along with his other sister, Trisha. Christina's relationship with him had been okay. I mean, she told us that he even lived with her and her daughter for a time. But to go back to their dad, like, his relationship with his dad was pretty rocky to say the least. And Jeremy actually was living with their dad at the time. Like, all this is happening and he was going missing. Right. And the whole family knew that the two of them living together was pretty much a disaster waiting to happen. From what I gather, the two, I mean, they just didn't get along. They were like fighting all the time.

[Detective Krasnoy]

And has Jeremy been around during this time that Fred's been missing?

[Ashley Flowers]

He has. And he's been telling everyone that their dad is probably fine. Like they don't need to worry about him.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Probably not mentioning that he's been using.

[Ashley Flowers]

Dad'S credit card definitely left that part out. So they're able to get a search warrant for Fred's house again, where Jeremy is still living. And by this point is when Detective Krasnoy is aware of this case, but not officially on board yet. But he does go along, too, to see if he sees anything out of the ordinary again. He's probably looking at it through a homicide detective detective's eyes. And there is one thing that really stands out. In one of the rooms, the carpet and pad that's usually under the carpet are both gone. It doesn't look like it had been taken up by a professional either. It looks like a rush job, like, or even a hack job. And for him, this is a huge red flag signaling that something he doesn't know what, but something probably happened in this room. Now, on January 13, the case is officially transferred to the homicide department, and Detective Krasnoy takes the lead. By the 15th, he makes contact with Christina and Trisha. And it turns out a lot has happened in the last few weeks, mostly over.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Text message still from Fred, supposedly.

[Ashley Flowers]

Well, no. So actually, the text messages that Christina shares are from her brother Jeremy.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Oh.

[Ashley Flowers]

By January, it sounds like the messages from Fred's phone have stopped, at least based on everything Detective Krasnoy told us. But she tells Detective Krasnoy that Jeremy texted her saying that their dad's former roommate, like, the guy who was there before Jeremy moved in, this guy apparently had been threatening Jeremy, saying that he was going to put a bullet in his head and sending him a photo of a gun and ammunition. And she also tells him about Fred's dog, who she describes as Fred's best friend. Like, we do not have to tell the crime junkies. She says he never went anywhere without that dog. But apparently for this hunting trip, he left the dog behind.

[Detective Krasnoy]

And where's the dog now?

[Ashley Flowers]

Well, the dog's at home with Jeremy, which already is weird. But they're like, okay, listen, even if he did leave behind, for the first time ever, his beloved dog, this is all the more reason not to be gone for two months without saying anything to anyone. Like, you would come back. And then finally, Christina also tells him that she had actually talked to Jeremy a few times about where exactly their dad had gone hunting. But she said that her brother's story kept changing. The first story she got is that their dad had gone to Paragon, Indiana.

[Detective Krasnoy]

I've never heard of Paragon.

[Ashley Flowers]

I was gonna say. I was like, I've lived here my whole life.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Same.

[Ashley Flowers]

I have never heard of this place, but doesn't even matter because then he's like, actually, no. You know, it might have been somewhere else, but he wasn't sure where it was. So that was a little fishy to her. And then she was also able to get her hands on some of Fred's financial records that she had kind of been collecting over the last few weeks. And she wanted to show the detective so he can see how unusual the charges to the account actually are. And sure enough, there is this really noticeable change in the types of charges being made, because before early November, Fred did not charge much to his credit cards at all. But after early November, the charges start becoming for those bars, restaurants, places that Fred would never go to. And like, he did drink, but, I mean, he had a few retired military buddies that he drank with at the vfw. He's not a bar hopper.

[Detective Krasnoy]

He had, like, a place, and that's where he would go with his buddies.

[Ashley Flowers]

So Detective Krasnoy has enough now to be very suspicious. He suspects that Fred is no longer alive. And he suspects that his own son is to blame for that. But he knows he's gonna need more proof. So he decides to pull the phone records for both Jeremy and Fred. And when he gets the results, they tell a very damning story.

[Brit]

The kind of burgers you get today tells you a lot about yourself. You're either someone who settles for sad, same old, same old burgers, or you're at a Carl's Jr obsession. Obsessed with a tangy OG Western bacon cheeseburger, demanding a house made guacamole. Loaded guac, bacon fired up for the insanely hot El Diablo. We're craving a classic Charbold Famous Star. Give in to your flavor cravings. Do your mouth to Carl's Jr.

[Ashley Flowers]

Good Burger.

[Treadwell]

Want the same expert advice you get from the pros in the store while shopping online@discount tire.com Meet Treadwell, your personal online tire guide that matches you with the perfect tire for your vehicle. Get your best match in one minute or less with Treadwell by discount Tire. Let's get you taken care of.

[Ashley Flowers]

So it turns out ever since Fred went missing, his phone has not left the west side of Indianapolis.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So he didn't go hunting.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. Spoiler alert.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Truck was never stuck.

[Ashley Flowers]

Nobody's hunting on the west side of Indianapolis. Right? And even if you want to say he, like, left his phone behind, I mean, okay, but then his phone shouldn't have been texting the whole time, right?

[Detective Krasnoy]

Exactly. Both things can't be true.

[Ashley Flowers]

But he was texting, so for sure. Now we know he wasn't on the trip. But what really catches the detective's attention is that the whole time Fred was supposed to be on this trip, you know, the trip we now know didn't happen. Fred and Jeremy's phones were pinging in the same locations on the same date, around the same time.

[Detective Krasnoy]

They were like, I don't know, moving together, one might say.

[Ashley Flowers]

Exactly.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So it's time to go chat with.

[Ashley Flowers]

Jeremy, but not quite yet. I know, I know. So the go get a mentality works well in law and order. Like when you're trying to make a case in, you know, 40 minutes. But, like, that's not. That's not real life. So. And I've heard a lot of detectives say this, they want to get their ducks in a row. I mean, the first thing I want to do is be like, let's confront them.

[Detective Krasnoy]

You want to only ask questions you know the answers to, essentially.

[Ashley Flowers]

Exactly. Like, they want to know when he's lying, even if, like, he doesn't know they know. You know what I mean? It's a little bit of a game. It's a cat and mouse. So he decides to go learn everything he can about Fred, Jeremy, the whole family. He learns that Fred's been married and divorced several times, including to Jeremy, Trisha and Christina's mom. And when that split happened, the girls went to live with their mom. Jeremy lived with Fred, which seemed to mark the beginning of their troubled relationship. Detective Krasnoy also chats with Fred's former roommate, the one that Jeremy told his sister had been, like, threatening him. Now, pretty quickly, the detective becomes confident that this roommate is not suspicious. In fact, the roommate flips the whole story around. He goes on to tell them what he'd experienced firsthand regarding Fred and Jeremy's relationship, which was that Jeremy moved in with Fred about five to six months before, and the whole time they didn't have a good relationship. And he believes that Jeremy killed his father not because of the circumstantial evidence that's been piling up against Jeremy, but because, according to him, Jeremy confessed as much.

[Detective Krasnoy]

What?

[Ashley Flowers]

Now, Jeremy hadn't confessed to him. This is like second, third hand information. But he says that he had spoken to one of Fred's former stepsons, and he said that Jeremy had been bragging about shooting his dad twice in the head and then placing his body in the freezer. So now it's time to bring in Jeremy.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

So this is not going to be in a dramatic fashion, though Detective Krasnoy doesn't want to tip his Hand. Instead, he just reaches out to him and asks him if he'd be willing to come down to the homicide office for a little chat. Not as a suspect, just as the son of a missing person. So Jeremy agrees. They meet on January 21st. And going into this interview, Detective Krasnoy's priorities are, you know, figuring out where Jeremy last saw his dad and then just to get a little bit of background on their relationship. But even trying to have this conversation, Jeremy keeps changing the subject. He really only seems to want to talk about the problems he's got with his dad's former roommate pointing away from himself. You got it. But what's interesting is he also repeats this rumor that his dad was shot and put in a freezer. But obviously, he's not saying he did it. He's not confessing. He's saying this former roommate did it.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Okay, so what's with this freezer that everyone's talking about? Like, I would think that you would know if there was a body in your own freezer, right?

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. I mean, he's basically talking about the freezer at their house, right? He's not. He's not in there. Like, they've. There's. I mean, I don't think, like, I assume that they checked.

[Detective Krasnoy]

If you heard this rumor, wouldn't you check your freezer?

[Ashley Flowers]

Like, yeah. And I. Jeremy, like, it is like, a wild story. And I don't know what Jeremy's like, oh, if he was in the freezer and then the roommate moved him or whatever, I. It's clearly bananas. But I think the whole point is, like, okay, you're, like, saying this.

[Detective Krasnoy]

You're saying this rumor that he's rumored to have confessed to himself. Right?

[Ashley Flowers]

So when he actually does get around to talking about his dad, Jeremy says that the last time he saw him was around November 8, between 2:30 and 3pm he said Fred was getting ready to go on this hunting trip. He had all of his stuff packed up. He had, like, this maroon duffel bag, a crossbow, at least one long gun in a case, and one handgun. He also provides some interesting information we haven't gotten before. He says that he knows who his dad went hunting with. These two guys named Brian and Dave. And throughout this whole interview, this conversation, Jeremy is playing every bit the confused son, claiming like, this is all he knows. But he's not really acting worried, which strikes Detective Krasnoy as odd. And I'm sure he knows just as well as everyone. You know, people act different ways, especially when a loved one goes missing. Or is murdered, whatever. But there is something about Jeremy's behavior that feels really off to him.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Well, and you have to assume he's going into this kind of knowing that Jeremy's likely lying to him with every single breath. That has to color everything Jeremy.

[Ashley Flowers]

Jeremy says, I'm sure. But he still doesn't confront him. He's not ready to do that yet. Mostly because he doesn't have an airtight case yet. So he's trying not to spook Jeremy. Instead, he thanks him for his time, and he lets him go. Which ends up being kind of a good choice, because it doesn't seem like Jeremy realizes that he is basically suspect number one right now. In fact, after the interview, he even offers up text messages that he allegedly got from his dad on December 9, the ones where Fred is supposedly saying that he got his truck stuck in the mud. Like that was that whole thing, and there'd been lots of rain or whatever. But the weird part is, those texts also say he's gonna be leaving soon, which we know he doesn't.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Wait, we've talked about the truck a couple times. Where is it?

[Ashley Flowers]

Oh, that's the thing. So Jeremy has been driving the truck that Fred owns. And by the way, Fred doesn't even have a license, so I know.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So, like, he shouldn't be driving around, getting stuck in the mud. And also, it can't be because Jeremy has it.

[Ashley Flowers]

So this is jumping ahead a little bit, but Fred had bought this brand new, expensive truck for a landscaping business that he and Jeremy were gonna start together. So this truck gets left behind, and he didn't have a license because of a drunk driving incident.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So the truck that got stuck, was that, like, Brian or Dave's truck?

[Ashley Flowers]

Here we go. It can't be because, dun, dun, dun.

[Detective Krasnoy]

They never left. They were never gone.

[Ashley Flowers]

Spoiler. No, they never ex. Existed.

[Detective Krasnoy]

What?

[Ashley Flowers]

These aren't real people. Detective Krasnoy told our reporter that he ends up spending, like, a month talking to just about every single person he can track down in Fred's life. And I'll get to that in a second. But no one he talks to knows this Brian or Dave.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Well, I was also going to say Brian and Dave are going to be the most impossible names to track down. Like, oh, yeah, in Indiana. Really? Like, come on.

[Ashley Flowers]

And of course they don't. I mean, this is just lie after lie after lie. And just in case there was any doubt, Detective Krasnoy cross references the text that Jeremy showed him with the records he has, and he sees that Fred's phone never left the west side when those texts were sent.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Okay, are we still waiting to arrest Jeremy? Like, I feel like right now could be a really good time.

[Ashley Flowers]

Well, there's no physical evidence that Jeremy is the one who killed his dad.

[Detective Krasnoy]

But there's no evidence that he's even killed.

[Ashley Flowers]

That's what I'm saying. There's no evidence there is a murder. I mean, it seems clear that Fred isn't around anymore, but where he is or what happened to him is this huge mystery. So Detective Krasnoy doesn't want to get tunnel vision. So throughout the rest of January and February, he keeps just kind of plowing ahead. Like I said, he's speaking to as many of Fred's friends and family members as he can. He's also filing more records requests, even conducting another search of the house. So for ease of understanding, let's talk about what he learns from friends and family first, and then I'm going to go over the search of the house that he did. So first up was the former stepson, Bobby. This is supposedly the one who told the former roommate that Jeremy confessed to him. And Bobby confirms that is what he heard. He explains that he and his girlfriend were out at a bar with Jeremy around November 18, talking about Fred and Jeremy. Said he shot his dad in the head twice and put him in the freezer.

[Detective Krasnoy]

The f. Bobby, where were you back in November?

[Ashley Flowers]

Yes. Detective Krasnoy says that he thinks he just didn't know what to do with this information. He didn't, really. I guess this stepson didn't know if he could even believe Jeremy. I mean, like, something that I think you've seen here, something that they've learned about Jeremy over the years, is that, you know, he rarely, if ever, tells the truth. He is very manipulative. He's attention seeking. He embellishes everything. Detective Krasnoy described it to us, saying that it could be raining outside and Jeremy could convince you it was 75 and sunny. Or at least I think he could convince himself. Right. So I think Bobby was thinking. I mean, it's just such a.

[Detective Krasnoy]

He's saying this because he wants to. They got in a fight, and he's like, at this. Like.

[Ashley Flowers]

Or you're just like.

[Detective Krasnoy]

At this place, you're just, like, showboating.

[Ashley Flowers]

I mean, it's. Yeah, that probably does feel so wild. Like a. It's hard to believe someone, you know, does that. And then if they did that, why would you be telling me at a bar? You know what I Mean, yeah, it.

[Detective Krasnoy]

All seems so ridiculous.

[Ashley Flowers]

And this is like. I don't even know where to add this. And maybe here's a good point to do it, because to go into, like, these, like, stories that he's been, like, telling. Detective Krasnoy learns that at some point Jeremy makes the claim that he was abused as a child. Apparently he didn't get into the details with us, but apparently the stuff Jeremy said was pretty awful. But this is like, you know, who's. I don't know. I don't know what to believe. Like, I can't talk to Jeremy. I can't talk to Fred. His sisters believe that. Well, they. I think that what they said was that they don't believe the abuse was ever as bad as Jeremy claims, but.

[Detective Krasnoy]

That it did or possibly did exist.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. So Detective Krasnoy said that Fred had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, that he may have been, quote, unquote, rough with Jeremy, which to me implies that there was some kind of physical abuse. But the extent of that abuse seems very unclear. And when taken in context with everything else, it's his sister's belief, it's the police's belief that Jeremy is likely a pathological liar. So, I mean, they don't believe that all of the claims he's making are.

[Detective Krasnoy]

True, which makes things so, so complicated.

[Ashley Flowers]

I know, and I don't even know how to, like, put this into context when, you know, I don't even have all of Jeremy's story. Like, I have, you know, someone telling me he's telling an awful story, but I don't know what it is. Fred's not here to defend himself or tell any story on his side. I didn't want to just, like, not bring it up, but I don't know.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Where it fits in the context of all this.

[Ashley Flowers]

And maybe there is. There's probably a lot more context, or maybe there isn't and Jeremy is just a liar. Like, this is the messiness of real life investigations, and this is exactly the spot that Detective Krasnoy was in. What he does feel like he knows for certain is that before he went missing, Fred was trying to repair his relationship with Jeremy, even trying to start that business together.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So are they thinking that the abuse could have been part of Jeremy's motive, like killing his dad with some sort of retribution for this alleged abuse?

[Ashley Flowers]

Maybe. But actually, Detective Krasnoy has a different theory.

[Brit]

Carl's Jr. S big Carl fans know nothing beats the layers and layers of flavor of a Big Carl. Nothing beats that char, boiled beef, American cheese, and tangy Carl's plastic sauce. Nothing except getting a second Big Carl for just $1. Big Carl, just one ups itself for just one buck. The buy one Big Carl, get one for a buck. Deal only. Carl's Junior Big Burger Good Burger. Available for a limited time at participating restaurants. Tax not included. Price may vary. Not valid with any other options. Discount or combo.

[Treadwell]

Want the same expert advice you get from the pros in the store while shopping online@discount tire.com meet Treadwell, your personal online tire guide that matches you with the perfect tire for your vehicle. Get your best match in one minute or less with Treadwell by discount Tire. Let's get you taken care of.

[Ashley Flowers]

Detective Krasnoy learns from a friend of Fred's that Jeremy had stolen money from his dad in the past, and if he tried to do it again, Fred planned to file charges against him. Detective Krasnoy confirms this. In the months before Fred vanished, Jeremy had stolen his dad's credit cards. And not only that, he'd also opened some accounts in his dad's name, put charges on them, and then never paid the bills. And then there was this other friend who tells this story like they had gotten a bad feeling about the business that father and son were trying to start together. Because this friend, back when Fred had asked her to help him with the finances, she's like, yes, happy to help you out under one condition. That I am the only one with access to the business accounts. And she explained that it would be easier if just one person was in charge of the finances so that, like, you know, there aren't a bunch of cooks in the kitchen. But I kind of wonder if it was because she knew that there had.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Been issues and she needed to.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right? Like, she knew Jeremy had been stealing. She didn't want it to happen again. And it turns out this is like, the wild part. So she's telling him this, like, just me. She's on speaker when she says that. And Jeremy was in the room with Fred, and upon hearing this, he says, quote, that B, we don't eat her, sir. Yeah.

[Detective Krasnoy]

What?

[Ashley Flowers]

She wasn't too happy with that. And she was like, okay, actually changed my mind. No longer willing to help. You're on your own.

[Detective Krasnoy]

And this was when.

[Ashley Flowers]

This is like, September of 2019. So September 2019, there's this whole confrontation. She's like, I don't want to help. I think he's whatever. She didn't say that, but that's the implication.

[Detective Krasnoy]

And no one sees Fred. By November yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

Poof, he's gone. And corroborating this theory are records of Fred calling the bank on November 5th and 6th to report a fraudulent account and to report fraudulent activity on his account. And they find out he also made a 911 call on November 6th to report that Jeremy had stolen one of his credit cards.

[Detective Krasnoy]

He was making good on his threat.

[Ashley Flowers]

He was. So Detective Krasnoy contacts the bank. He finds out that Jeremy had called the bank on December 7th, pretending to be his dad, trying to transfer $200 to the card. He didn't get it. The account was frozen. So it's not looking good. I mean, it's like. It's like, almost like proving everything everyone's thinking, but it is all still circumstantial. Right. They don't have a body, they don't have a murder weapon. Like, zero physical evidence whatsoever.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Okay, you told me you would give me a lot of background. But then get to the search. Can we get to the search now?

[Ashley Flowers]

We can get to the search. So that happens early February, and Detective Krasnoy is hoping that it'll give them something to work with. So when he walks in, he notices that the carpet is still gone. He actually learns that this room that the carpet is missing in used to be Jeremy's bedroom. At least based on a few personal items that are in there. Though now it seems like Jeremy is staying in a different one. For some reason, he doesn't want to be in that room. But in that room, he finds a receipt. The receipt, actually, from Lowe's, the one that the first detectives saw that led to the surveillance footage.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Now, why was that still in the house?

[Ashley Flowers]

So, no, sorry. She just saw the charge before. She didn't actually.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Oh, like on, like a statement or something?

[Ashley Flowers]

I think so. Not the actual receipt, but now they have the actual physical thing, which, like.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Has an itemized list of everything that was bought.

[Ashley Flowers]

Exactly. Now, unfortunately, it doesn't say right there. I think it's just, like, item numbers.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So it's a hardware store, right?

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. So we have to, like, look this up later. But what he ends up finding out is what was purchased was a 96 gallon, two wheel trash can, Heavy duty cleaning, wipes, bleach, plastic drop cloths.

[Detective Krasnoy]

You can just say murder kit.

[Ashley Flowers]

Exactly. Latex gloves, flashlight, air freshener, detergent pods. And I think Detective Krasnoy said it best in our interview with him. He said, quote, any crime junkies listening to this should see that receipt and know exactly what that means.

[Detective Krasnoy]

What did I just Say, I know a murder kit.

[Ashley Flowers]

But let me tell you the other things he finds in the house, because they're important, too. In the bathroom, he finds a pair of Fred's dentures. And at first he's like, okay, maybe Fred had two pairs. You know, one being here isn't that significant. Okay. No. He finds out Fred only had one.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Pair, and he's not going anywhere without them.

[Ashley Flowers]

No. And then the icing on the cake is walking into the garage. Detective Krasnoy finds almost everything Jeremy said that Fred had taken hunting with him. The maroon duffel bag, the camping gear. It is all there. Everything except for the crossbow that he mentioned. But Detective Krasnoy does have a good idea where to start looking for that. Pawn shops. Indiana law states that if you pawn something, you have to present your ID for tracking purposes. And sure enough, guess who pawned a crossbow.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Jeremy.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. And thankfully, it had not been sold. So it gets collected by the police department because they have to make sure it actually is Fred. And he's in luck, because one of the friends that he had spoken to says that he'd done some work on that specific crossbow of Fred's. I guess Fred had this bad shoulder due to prior injury. So this friend had installed a crank so that he could draw it back easier. And he says that if you take off the crank and look inside, Detective Krasnoy should see this shiny circular metal piece. All cranks would have something like it in there. But this friend says that he made that piece himself.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Like a custom?

[Ashley Flowers]

Yes. And if it came from the manufacturer, it would have a dull black color, but the one he made was bright silver. So Detective Krasnoy goes, he takes off the crank, and there, sitting inside, is the shiny circular metal piece.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So I know this is important, but is this the murder weapon?

[Ashley Flowers]

No. So they don't think he used it to kill his dad.

[Detective Krasnoy]

He just pawned it to get the cash. Probably not to get rid of it.

[Ashley Flowers]

I think it's just more proof that Jeremy lied. I mean, if all they're ever gonna have is a circumstantial case, they need as much as possible.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Exactly.

[Ashley Flowers]

I think what they're thinking, as far as the murder weapon goes, is, I mean, if you go back to this confession or even the rumors that were going around, I think that they think Fred was shot. And Fred had several guns. There are a few that Detective Krasnoy can't locate. So he's pretty sure Fred was shot. And then Jeremy either sold the gun he used or Traded it or something. So with a lot more now under his belt, now is the time that he brings Jeremy in for a proper. Not interview, but interrogation. And he decides to be a bit risky and just kind of lay everything he has on the table. Nothing they have so far is going to get them a solid conviction. At least not here in Marion county, apparently. So if Jeremy doesn't confess, he's walking out of there a free man. But Detective Krassenoy decides to take the gamble anyway. And he starts laying everything out. But one by one, excuses start flying out of Jeremy's mouth. The cell phone record showing both his and his dad's phone in the same place at the same time after he went missing. So wild. He has no idea how that happened. But he def. Doesn't have his phone. The spending of his dad's money, well, that is just a misunderstanding. His dad gave him permission to use the card.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Sure.

[Ashley Flowers]

The Lowe's receipt. Well, that one stops him in his tracks. According to Detective Krasnoy, the next words out of Jeremy's mouth are, I need an attorney.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Uh, yeah, you do.

[Ashley Flowers]

Jeremy walks out of the interview and basically refuses to cooperate anymore.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Walks out. Is this not enough to arrest him already?

[Ashley Flowers]

Dude, I told you, you have to, like. I don't know how it works. Other places in Marion county, you have to have it locked. And this is the case everywhere, right? Like, you have one shot and one shot only at a prosecution. But don't worry, because just because it's not now doesn't mean it's never over. The summer of 2020, Detective Krasnoy executes several search warrants in areas where Fred was known to hunt. Even brings out cadaver dogs just in case. There's still no sign of Fred anywhere. By the end of 2020, he's feeling like this might be all he ever has. And in a move I fully appreciate, he is willing to at least give it a go. And luckily, so is the prosecutor that he reaches out to. And by early 2021, they start putting together everything they need to charge Jeremy with murder. And that's right about the time that Detective Krasanoy gets an unexpected call. Now, crime dunkies. I know you don't always love hearing sound bites in these episodes. That's what the deck is for. I know. But this one is just too good.

[Jeremy Farmer]

So we. We start that process of preparing the filing of charges and things. And I got a call one night from Jeremy. I was at a BW3s restaurant. I was off that night. I Got a call from Jeremy. This is before charges are filed. It's actually just days before, really. And he calls me and says, hey, I just wanted to see if there's an update on my dad. I said, jeremy, are you serious? He goes, yeah. He goes, I just want to see what the update is. And I said, you killed your dad. You want to come down and tell me about it? I said, that's what the update is. And he goes, I can't believe you still think that, and then hangs up.

[Ashley Flowers]

Just a few days later, on February 10th, Jeremy is arrested for the murder of his dad. He's held without bond, all while proclaiming his innocence and saying that he has no idea where his dad is. But guess what? We know exactly where Fred is now. Because on May 13, Detective Krasnoy gets this call.

[Jeremy Farmer]

I was off that day. I am preparing to go to my daughter's lacrosse game, and I get a call from my lieutenant. He's like, hey, what are you doing? I said, I'm getting ready to go to lacrosse. I said, what's happening? You want to go get Fred?

[Ashley Flowers]

Earlier that day, the owner of a storage facility in Brownsburg, Indiana, called 911 after noticing a foul smell coming from one of the units. And it was a unit they'd actually repossessed because the owner had missed the last few payments. And so, after smelling something, the owner of this place called the police to come and see what it was. But before they got there, she decided to Google the name of the person who had been renting the unit.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Jeremy Farmer.

[Ashley Flowers]

Jeremy Farmer. And she saw that Jeremy Farmer had recently been arrested for murder.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Right. Did this unit not pop up on any of the record searches before?

[Ashley Flowers]

No, no. Krasnoy told us that Jeremy had first rented the unit on one of his credit cards, one that they didn't know he had, but then he'd made most of the payments in cash, so there really had been no trace of it.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

Inside, they find a 96 gallon trash can wrapped in tarps and plastic drop cloths, all the items they recognize from that Lowe's receipt. And if there was any doubt, Detective Krasnoy pulls out a copy of the Lowe's receipt that he found in Jeremy's old room. And there is a price tag still attached to the trash can. And when he compares the UPC codes, they match. And slowly, they begin unwrapping this thing piece by piece. Underneath, they find that the lid secured with the zip ties. Those are painstakingly cut off and bagged one by One. And then they finally open the trash can, and there is a mound of trash on top that they meticulously remove. And down at the very bottom is Fred. Despite having been deceased for over a year by this point, by the way, Detective Krasnoy told us that Fred was in amazing condition. He had been kept in a cool, dark place free of moisture, so there was actually like pretty little decomp. It's not anywhere near as bad as if Jeremy had left him outside, for.

[Detective Krasnoy]

Instance, and it took a year to start smelling.

[Ashley Flowers]

So this is what's so wild. Air fresheners had been kind of masking the smell for a long time. Jeremy had been getting those that release like a puff every like 15 minutes or so. And based on receipts found in the unit, it looks like he had repeatedly gone back and replaced those over and over again.

[Detective Krasnoy]

But now he's been arrested and he couldn't. He couldn't pay for the unit and he couldn't replace the air freshener.

[Ashley Flowers]

Exactly.

[Detective Krasnoy]

And is the murder weapon in the storage unit?

[Ashley Flowers]

No, that is the one thing that is not handed to them on a silver platter. Now, at his autopsy, Fred's cause of death is determined to be a single gunshot wound to the head straight through his left eye. There aren't any defensive wounds or other wounds for that matter. And testing on the trash can reveals Jeremy's fingerprints and DNA just like straight up all over it, of course. So Jeremy went to trial in April of 2023, claiming that he shot his dad in self defense. You know, brand new story this time. His story goes that his dad had come home drunk, he was armed with a gun. There's some kind of confrontation and some subsequent struggle in his bedroom, the one with the carpet out of it. And he claims that the gun accidentally went off while they were grappling with their hands over their head, which, like, isn't possible because the trajectory of the bullet was just like straight on. So as you can imagine, like the jury could read through it, and eventually he's found guilty and sentenced to 57 years. And despite this being justice, it's not a win. There's no handshaking, no weight lifted off anyone's shoulders because not only have Christina and Trisha lost their dad, now, they've also lost their brother. Their mom has lost a son. And like, he, he's alive, but their relationship is never going to be the same with him. I mean, in fact, Christina told us that she tried to keep up with him once he went to prison, but they don't even talk anymore. After the trial, Jeremy appealed his conviction on the grounds of self defense. He also disputes some of the evidence sticking to his story about the shot being an accident. But his appeal is quickly denied.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So what does Detective Krasnoy really think happened?

[Ashley Flowers]

Well, based on everything he knows, he told us that he believes Jeremy knew the jig was up. Like Fred was going to report him to the police for stealing. I mean, right? We know he called 911, kind of did. And he'd likely gone into Jeremy's room the evening of the sixth to confront him, probably to kick him out of the house. Like everything was coming down on Jeremy. So he was gonna, you know, get reported to the police. He's gonna get kicked out, have no place to live. He's probably going to lose this brand new truck that he just got, and he wasn't gonna let that happen. Detective Krasnoy thinks that there was probably a physical altercation and the grappling that Jeremy described didn't happen in the way that he said it did. But somehow Jeremy got a gun, possibly one of Fred's, but he's not sure, and then he shot him, just face to face. But that is just a theory. Jeremy won't tell anyone the truth about what happened, which is kind of leaving Christina and Tricia with a lot of questions. But those questions aren't just for Jeremy, though, because they don't think that he was acting alone. So what if not in the murder itself? They think he at least had help in the COVID up. And a small part of them also believes that another family member may have been involved too. So this is for several reasons. So for one, this person that they have in mind spent a lot of time with Jeremy after Fred's murder. They would go out drinking with him, using Fred's credit cards, debit cards. This person also tried to take possession of Fred's belongings during the trial, which, like, really pissed off his daughters. Understandably.

[Detective Krasnoy]

So they just think this other family member knew about it but didn't tell anyone.

[Ashley Flowers]

Well, and like I said, they think maybe they were involved in, like, the coverup of it all. I mean, like, when you think about it, Fred was a grown man. Could Jeremy have gotten him into the trash can himself and then transported him to that storage facility alone? Maybe. But I think it's also very possible he had help. And Fred's daughters believe that this other person may have provided that help. And, you know, when we talked to Detective Krasnoy about this, he agrees that, you know, this person is a sketchy character, but he says none of the physical evidence implies that there was another person there. All of the prints on the trash can are Jeremy's. The carpet and gun have never been recovered either. So we don't know, you know, if there's evidence there. So everyone's kind of just left wondering if they'll ever get the full true story of how Fred Farmer died and who all was really involved. But even if they never get those answers, Christina and Trisha want everyone to remember their dad the way they do, as a man who grew watermelons and sunflowers with his granddaughter, someone who camped in his front yard with his grandkids, who would offer his garage as a dry, warm place for kids in the neighborhood to wait for the school bus. And yeah, he had his flaws. They're not denying or erasing that. But this was not the end he deserved. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website crimejunkiepodcast.com.

[Detective Krasnoy]

And you can follow us on Instagram crimejunkiepodcast.

[Ashley Flowers]

We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think Chuck? Do you approve?

[Brit]

The kind of burgers you get today tells you a lot about yourself. You're either someone who settles for sad same old same old burgers or you're Etta Carl's junior Obsessed with a tangy OG Western bacon cheeseburger, demanding a house made guacamole, loaded guac bacon, fired up for the insanely hot El Diablo or craving a classic Charbold Famous Star. Give in to your flavor cravings. Get your mouth to Carl's Jr Big Burger good Burger.

[Treadwell]

Want the same expert advice you get from the pros in the store while shopping online@discount tire.com meet Treadwell, your personal online tire guide that matches you with the perfect tire for your vehicle. Get your best match in one minute or less with Treadwell by Discount Tire. Let's get you taken care of.