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Crime Junkie
MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: Jeannette Bishop May & Gabriella Guerin
01:08:06
In 1980, the ex-wife of a British aristocrat and her Italian friend vanished from a small ski resort town during a snowstorm in the mountains of central Italy, and investigators had a simple theory—they got lost and had some kind of accident. But when mysterious messages arrive, clues lead them on a decades-long deep dive into the art world jet set, the mafia underworld…and even the Vatican.
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- [00:01]
Ashley Flowers
Hi crime Junkies. If you can't get enough of the way we deep dive into cases every week here, then you have to check out my other weekly podcast, the Deck. My team of reporters have been traveling the country to bring you the stories that you've likely never even heard before, and we do it every single Wednesday. From baffling disappearances to pending murder investigations, many of these cases are on the brink of justice. They just need the right person to listen and share. And that person might be you. Listen to the Deck wherever you listen to podcasts. Psst. Your payments are showing, but with Apple Cash your payments are private by design. There are no public feeds, awkward reactions, or unnecessary payment drama. Apple Cash lets you send cash in messages right in the conversations you're already having, or with tap to Cash pay someone next to you without looking up a username or scanning a QR code. Just hold your iPhone near someone else's to send. Switch to Apple Cash and start sending privately. Apple Cash services are provided by Green Bank Member FDIC.
- [01:15]
Britt
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- [02:25]
Ashley Flowers
Hi Crime Junkies. I'm your host Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt and girl, the story I have for you today is wild. It's like Agatha Christie meets Italian Mafia kind of wild. Like it has art world like heist Drama. It has mysterious telegrams, a snowstorm, ransom plots, and somehow almost no one outside Europe has heard of this story. So if anyone out there listening is the type of person who loves a good string board, you're going to want to clear the wall because we are going all the way in on this one. This is the story of Jeanette Bishop May and Gabriella Guer. On the morning of Sunday, Nov. 30, 1980, snow is falling in Sarnano, Italy. It's this medieval hilltop village turned ski resort tucked into the base of a mountain range. The kind of place that looks like something out of a fairy tale almost. I think my daughter would call it Arendelle, essentially. But this isn't a picturesque blanket of snow that we're talking about right now. There is a full on snowstorm, one that is worrying a local surveyor, this guy named Nazareno Vinonzi. And he's worried because just the day before, so that would have been Saturday, November 29, two women walked into his office to hire him for a project. And in conversation and over snacks as they like went about their stuff and talked about what they were doing, it came up that they were planning to take a drive up into the mountains later that afternoon, which he was like, absolutely not a good idea because of the impending snowstorm. But he was afraid that maybe they hadn't listened because after they left he expected to hear from them again. But it was now, 24 hours later, full storm here now, and he hasn't heard from them.
- [04:45]
Britt
And are these two like locals who would be used to the weather, know what to expect?
- [04:49]
Ashley Flowers
So one is and one isn't 40 year old Jeanette Bishop May. She lives in London normally, but she just bought a country house nearby. She was trying to line up contractors and stuff for renovation. That's actually why they were meeting with the surveyor, right? But her friend with her, 39 year old, Gabriela Guerin, she lives in Italy. Like not this part exactly, but she is there with Jeanette to translate for her. So when the surveyor guy starts getting nervous, he starts making calls. First to the boarding house where he knew that the women had been staying. And they confirm his fears. The owner says that the women never came back the night before. So then he tries the man who sold Jeanette her house. Maybe, just maybe, she decided to spend the night at her new place. But he says no. And he adds that Jeanette actually asked to meet him yesterday. But then she never showed up. So now Nazareno's really worried. And so he goes straight to police and reports Jeanette and Gabriela missing. And at first, police are probably thinking the same as most people probably would, right? Two women, unfamiliar with the area. They drive into a mountain snowstorm and they get stuck. Maybe they lost their way, maybe they pulled over to wait it out. Now when they're reported missing, like the storm is still raging, so they can't do anything in that instant. But as soon as it calms down a little bit, police launch a full search effort. We're talking helicopters, dogs, ski patrol volunteers. Like, they're all scouring the mountain for these women or even their car, which is this small, dark colored hatchback with license plates from a city called Siena. And Siena is about three hours away. So a car with those plates would kind of stand out here, Right? It's not like they're unheard of, but like, easier to look for, for sure. And at the same time, investigators start piecing together the women's last known movements. And some of it tracks, right? Like, witnesses report seeing their car heading down toward the mountain at around 1pm, which was like right after Nazareno said that they left. But then either they changed their minds or they went up the mountain and came back. And like, it was just like a quick trip because somebody sees them again at 4:15 in town and it's this employee of a construction store. And he knows it was them at 4:15 because he actually saw them earlier with that surveyor. They had like come in to pay an invoice. But the interesting thing is that he says at 4:15, Jeanette is wearing different clothing than she was before. So I don't know that that means they did or didn't go up the mountain. Like I said, it would have been a short trip.
- [07:18]
Britt
But if she changed, she at some point in time had to go back to like where they were staying to change her clothes.
- [07:23]
Ashley Flowers
Correct. The thing is, though, we don't have any sightings of them between 1 and 4:15. Especially, like, we don't have anyone at the boarding house who saw them in that time. There are, however, people who saw them after that. Witnesses remember seeing them heading to their rooms and they remember seeing their car parked out front of the boarding house at around 5pm and this is notable because this is about when the street lights come on. And around this same time, they see the women actually like driving away from the boarding house. So like, we know they're there after four. We know at five they're driving away, but we don't know where they go at 5 o' clock there Aren't any other sightings of them or their car for the next two plus hours until around 7:20pm when their car is seen heading downhill from the town center with two people inside.
- [08:19]
Britt
But okay, if they haven't been to the mountain yet, why would they wait until 7:20 to leave then and go to the mountain? Presumably like this is happening in a snowstorm. Right.
- [08:31]
Ashley Flowers
And it makes you think that they didn't go before because if you did, then why would you go back in a snowstorm? Right. And listen, I don't know for sure if they were going to the mountain at that time.
- [08:39]
Britt
Right. Like you said, they could have gone up and come back already.
- [08:42]
Ashley Flowers
Right. Like the way it works is you have to like go down the hill to like the base and then go up into it. So just because they were going down doesn't mean they were. But it's kind of like the assumption everyone is making. And to your point, it makes no sense to do that when the storm is like beginning. Like, you know you're going to be putting yourself in a bad spot. Like you're already warned at 12:45 when you leave. Don't do it. Why would you do it at 7:20? So police don't know where they were going, if it was even them. But in all this time that they're searching, there is still no sign of Jeanette, Gabriella or their car. And by this time it's Sunday afternoon and the storm is picking back up. So the mountain search is temporarily called off. Now, it's around this time that Jeanette's husband, Steven arrives in town. Now he's been notified about her disappearance. He's ready to help any way he can, starting with more background on his wife, who turns out is the ex wife of Evelyn de Rothschild, one of the the richest men in the world at the time.
- [09:44]
Britt
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- [10:50]
Ashley Flowers
Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.
- [10:53]
Britt
Thanks.
- [10:53]
Ashley Flowers
And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need a trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it. There's always a trade in.
- [11:05]
Britt
Not right now.
- [11:06]
Ashley Flowers
@ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender. I'm good. Seriously. Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine.
- [11:20]
Britt
Oh, I have raisins.
- [11:21]
Ashley Flowers
I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on us. No trade in needed. Will even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line $100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement $999.99 and qualifying boarded for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Pay off via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel CT mobile.com Jenette and Evelyn met when Jeanette was a model and they were married for five years. That's actually how Jeanette and Gabriella met. Gabriella worked as a cook for the Rothschilds in the UK. And even after Jeannette and Evelyn divorced in 1971, Jeanette and Gabriella stayed close. So close even that Jeanette is the godmother of Gabriella's daughter. And then Jeanette met Stephen a few years after her divorce. And then they got married in 1977. Now, Jeanette's mom said in an interview with the Evening Standard that her and Evelyn's relationship post divorce was amicable. So if she had enemies, they probably weren't in her past marriage, right? But her being the ex wife of a Rothschild is enough to draw attention and set off a media frenzy. Because abductions for ransom are happening all over Italy at this point. I mean, a lot of people know about John Paul Getty, but I had no idea that between the 1960s and the 1990s, over 700 people were abducted by organized crime syndicates. Yeah, in Italy. And they were held for ransom. So if someone thought a member of the Rothschild family was alone in a small town village like that is a potential gold mine for the wrong person. I mean, and you're not even gonna believe this. So just a year before this, a British businessman named Rothschild was abducted in Italy by criminals who thought that his name was Rothschild.
- [13:22]
Britt
I mean, you truly can't even make that up. I know, but all that to say, would they even know that she, at one point in time, was a Rothschild? She hasn't been married to one in years. And you can't Google her right now.
- [13:37]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, not just by her walking down the street or something, but her passport still says Jeanette de Rothschild with. It just has like this note that she now uses the last name May. So the thinking is, I believe that if someone would have seen documentation, right? She checks in somewhere, somehow they see her passport. Like that's a dead giveaway.
- [13:55]
Britt
Okay, well, if this is a ransom abduction, there has to be a ransom demand. Like that's. That happens.
- [14:03]
Ashley Flowers
No, that's the thing. It hasn't. And from the jump, Steven's not even buying this theory. He says that he and Jeanette lived comfortably, but they weren't as wealthy as people might think. I mean, he works in HR department store. And according to Town and Country magazine, Jeanette's divorce settlement from Evelyn had been modest. Like, she got a home in London and then a small investment bank fund. And since then, she's like, built a career as an interior designer, like an antiques dealer.
- [14:29]
Britt
Okay, but all of that is kind of internal knowledge, right? Like, it's totally possible for someone to see her passport, realize who she is or who she was married to, and think that she's a lot wealthier than she actually is.
- [14:40]
Ashley Flowers
Right. Again, like Steven's saying, it doesn't make sense for them. But I think the whole point is, like, if someone thought she was connected to someone else still.
- [14:46]
Britt
Right. Still could be like something that someone thought and acted on.
- [14:49]
Ashley Flowers
Well, and it's a especially believable when a new witness comes forward, he says that he saw two cars at around 4pm on Sunday. So this is the day after they go missing. And he sees them in a town about 10 minutes outside of Sarnano. He said the first car was a bigger car with Sienna plates, and there were two people inside. One of them looked like a woman. The other person, he couldn't tell. And then the second car was a small, dark hatchback, also with Sienna plates. And, like, that matches up with what Jeanette's car was. And that car also had two people inside, and one of them looked like Jeanette.
- [15:30]
Britt
So we talked about this a little bit, but are Sienna plates really that out of the ordinary? Like, in this region? I'm thinking about, like, seeing a Michigan plate or Illinois plate or an Ohio plate here in Indiana. It's not a ton, but it's not unheard of.
- [15:44]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. And it is a ski resort. So, like, one or two cars with Sienn, like, it's probably not a big deal, but I think it's just the fact that they're seeing them, like, together, they're seeing the hatchback. Like, it's all. It's all the things. And there are a few people in Sarnano that start recalling this same thing, that in the days before and after the women disappeared, there were a lot of cars with Sienna place. So it must have been, like, more than usual. Enough that it raises eyebrows. Now, police can't link any of those specifically, like, to any of this, but it kind of gets them thinking, so what if Jeanette and Gabriella were in two separate cars? Like, not that they brought two cars, but, like, that that sighting was real. Like, did someone follow them? Did someone come?
- [16:27]
Britt
Like, did they get separated somehow?
- [16:29]
Ashley Flowers
And if that sighting's legit and you combine it with everything else that stood out to an investigator we spoke to, like them missing, the meeting with the homeowner, and possibly going to the mountains more than once, then maybe this wasn't just a wrong turn in a snowstorm. Maybe now they're thinking they were taken against their will.
- [16:49]
Britt
Did they ever fully search the boarding house where the women were staying? Like, was anything missing?
- [16:55]
Ashley Flowers
So from what I saw, it doesn't look, from what police can tell, that anything had been disturbed. I don't know how much. They actually tore it apart, though, and did a detail search. I get the sense it wasn't very much because something interesting is found there. That, like, doesn't come to their attention until December 4th, when Steven finds it. And what he finds in their room was this handwritten note seemingly written by Jeanette. And it lists a few phone numbers, and it has a line that just says, please do not hesitate.
- [17:29]
Britt
Hesitate to do what?
- [17:32]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, so I. I've gone in circles with so many things on this. This is one of them. One of our writers I was talking to thought that maybe it was like, A, for the front desk, like, hey, if these people call, like, don't hesitate, like, approved numbers. Yeah, but A, why wouldn't it be with the front desk, is my question. B, even if it was going to be given to the front desk, like, it just hadn't yet, wouldn't you put someone's name and not the number? Like, if this person calls?
- [17:57]
Britt
What if it's like the opposite? Like, maybe don't hesitate to reach out to these people for. In case of emergency. I don't know exactly.
- [18:05]
Ashley Flowers
Like, reach out to them for. Like, for. It doesn't give enough information. Like, and it doesn't add up. Doesn't even make more sense after they find out who those numbers belong to, I guess one was to a beach club two hours south of Rome, and the others went to, like, three different men who they were able to, or they were least if I were able to find two of them that I know of. And it doesn't seem like any of them have anything to do with any of this. And it doesn't seem like any of the numbers or people connected to the numbers get tied to an incoming telegram that gets delivered to the boarding house from Rome shortly after. And this telegram is addressed to someone named Janine May. And this is where things get so weird, because right off the bat, like, the telegram itself is strange. Like, it feels like it's for Jeanette May, but as far as police know, nobody calls her Janine. So, like, where did that come from?
- [19:03]
Britt
Yeah, that's off already.
- [19:04]
Ashley Flowers
All this thing says is, I am waiting for you. And then it's followed by a Rome address, and it's signed by someone named Roland.
- [19:14]
Britt
And is this address a house, a business? Does it exist at all?
- [19:20]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, I know. So this is where things get super weird. Not only does the address exist, they don't even have to look up the address to know that it exists, because the address is already on their radar in connection to another crime on December 3rd. So a couple of days after the women disappeared, but before that Janine May telegram was received, another mysterious telegram was the center of an investigation unfolding in Rome. This one was sent to a director of the famous auction house Christie at its Rome headquarters. And it said something like, recovery is possible. And then it directs them to the address that was on the Janine May telegram. But this One was signed by someone named Rodrigo.
- [20:07]
Britt
Okay. But recovery of what is possible, probably art.
- [20:12]
Ashley Flowers
At least that's what police think.
- [20:13]
Britt
Because of Christie's.
- [20:14]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. And because the night after Jeanette and Gabriela went missing, there was a major art theft at Christie's in Rome. Like, things are feeling, like, a little backwards, but art, probably.
- [20:24]
Britt
Wait, so these two women were somehow tied up in an art theft operation? Is that what you're saying?
- [20:30]
Ashley Flowers
I don't know if they're tied up in it necessarily, but it sure seems like the two events have to be connected in some way. Right?
- [20:38]
Britt
Right.
- [20:39]
Ashley Flowers
We have this address, same one being used. I mean, that alone is enough to sell me on it. But on top of that, it turns out that Jeanette does have some connections to the art world through her interior design work. So it's not like it was, like, completely foreign. Right? Like, it's not like if all of a sudden people are, like, asking for ransom and tying me to the art world, like, go, go. But then things get more complicated because while police are trying to wrap their heads around a connection between these two telegrams, they learn that three more have been sent to families of prominent people who have been abducted in Rome. And again, they instruct them to go to that same address in all of.
- [21:20]
Britt
Them, and they were addressed to the family members, telling them, again, specifically to go to this address, or was it like, Jeanette's, where it was, like, addressed to her?
- [21:31]
Ashley Flowers
So I know one of them was addressed to the family members. I don't know about the other two. So I know one is different than Jeanette's. I don't know about the other. And it's weird because, like, they. When I say ransom, they weren't even making straight up ransom demands. They were actually, like, more similar to the Christie's telegram, saying, like, go to this place if you want answers kind of thing. And I don't know if those families went to the address or what happened. If they did. I just know that one of the people who'd been abducted, this industrialist, is eventually found dead. He had been shot in the head even after part of the $450,000 ransom had been paid. The other two people, however, did eventually get released. But police are probably feeling like time is running out to track down whoever sent these telegrams. Like, how dangerous are these people? They're able to figure out that the addresses that the telegrams were supposedly sent from, because they're like, they're from address. There were a couple different ones. They were different, like, numbers, but all on the same street. Surprise, surprise. Like, they don't exist or like the numbers don't. The street itself itself, though, does exist. And so police obviously, like, search it, except they don't find anything. Or, like, find anyone who knows about, like, the person who would have sent this, except when they're doing this, like, canvassing, they do find, interestingly, that another director who works for Christy's art house or auction house, actually lives on that street. Oh, yeah. Which is, you know, a huge red flag. And police search his apartment, where they find illegal firearms, they find narcotics. They also search his girlfriend's place, and according to Corriere della Serra, there, they find a diagram of Christie's alarm system. So it's looking more and more likely that this director may have sent the telegram to the other director as well as maybe even planned that heist. But even, like, with all the weird things they collect, apparently there is nothing concrete to prove that this guy was involved. And none of the art that was taken is ever recovered. So they can't tie this director to any of the telegrams or the ransom plots either. And even though police do arrest him, he is eventually released. And all the while, police are still wondering if he has any connection to Gabriela and Jeanette's disappearance.
- [24:00]
Britt
I feel like the key to all of this is this address that everyone was told to go to. Like, that was involved in all the telegrams, which I told you is real.
- [24:10]
Ashley Flowers
Yes. Okay. So when they go to this address, it does not disappoint. According to the Manchester Evening News, they find at this address a group of South Americans living there, one of whom is a woman out on bail who had been charged in 1976 with abducting an ambassador to Rome. Oh, I know. Like, kind of the thing we're looking into.
- [24:32]
Britt
Yeah.
- [24:33]
Ashley Flowers
So she and everyone else in the apartment end up getting arrested when they find, like, narcotics in the place. Right. They can't time to the abductions. Yes, but they, like, find narcotics.
- [24:41]
Britt
Any connection to the Christie's director with narcotics at the other address?
- [24:45]
Ashley Flowers
No. So, like, different. Okay, well, I don't know that it's different, but I just know they didn't find any connection to him, like, except for the telegrams, like, but on paper, no.
- [24:56]
Britt
No connection except for all the connections.
- [24:57]
Ashley Flowers
Got it. So. But when police start digging into the people who live there, they uncover this whole other layer. So they learn that two people in the apartment had some kind of beef with another woman and that she might have sent the telegrams to set them up. Like, she knew Police would investigate and that they would get raided.
- [25:18]
Britt
Okay, but you got to be real lucky if you just, like guest addresses that tie back to the street where the Christie guy has lived. And that guy also turns out to be shady. Like, that's a lot.
- [25:29]
Ashley Flowers
I agree. I will say, sometimes things can be stranger than fiction. Because when they start, like, going down this road and looking into this woman, what they see is that the Peruvian embassy was on the same street as that, like, shady Christie's director, and this woman that they suspect was the sender was from Peru. So they're like. I mean, it's a street she would have been familiar with.
- [25:57]
Britt
Or she's connected to the guy too. Two birds, one stone.
- [26:01]
Ashley Flowers
Police don't think so. They think that she probably saw these big cases in the news and took advantage of that because she had some kind of ax to grind.
- [26:12]
Britt
And please just write it off, like, just like that.
- [26:15]
Ashley Flowers
I know.
- [26:15]
Britt
So just to recap what they're writing off, finding a known kidnapper at the address that the telegrams referenced, finding a director of the auction house, like, where the heist happened, on the same street as the other address referenced.
- [26:34]
Ashley Flowers
All coincidence.
- [26:35]
Britt
I'm having trouble.
- [26:35]
Ashley Flowers
I know.
- [26:36]
Britt
Like, processing that many coincidences.
- [26:40]
Ashley Flowers
I know. But police now are of the mindset that the telegrams were just some kind of hoax, and so they put that line of investigation to the side, and maybe because at that point, they have a bigger, better lead. Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.
- [27:00]
Britt
Thanks.
- [27:00]
Ashley Flowers
And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need to trade in. When you switch to T Mobile. We'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it. There's always a trade in.
- [27:12]
Britt
Not right now.
- [27:13]
Ashley Flowers
@ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender. I'm good. Seriously. Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine.
- [27:26]
Britt
Oh, I have raisins.
- [27:28]
Ashley Flowers
I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us, no trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line 100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement $999.99 and qualifying hoarded for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Pay off via virtual prepaid card below 15 days credits and balance due if you pay off early or cancel.
- [27:54]
Britt
See T mobile.com okay supply run fix the faucet.
- [28:00]
Ashley Flowers
Get new tires. Here's the all time best premium durable tire you have enough to do without becoming a tire expert. GMC Certified Service technicians are factory trained to fit your vehicle with the tires specifically developed for it and with our tire price match guarantee, you get the best fit for the best deal. Let us do the work. Available on select eligible tire brands at participating dealers only. Offer ends 1231, 25 terms apply. See dealer for complete details. Visit gmc.comservice to learn more. Almost three weeks after Jeanette and Gabriella went missing, we are now December 18th the women's car is found. It's spotted by police on a Snowy roadside about 20 to 30 minutes from the boarding house. And truthfully, I don't even think they know it's a car at first. Like it's almost completely buried under a pile of snow. There's just like this part of it that was reflecting the sun, which is what caught police's eye when they were up in a helicopter. But when search teams dig it out, they know for sure it is Jeanette and Gabriela's car. Doors are locked, but they can still see the keys inside, along with some valuables. The car is in neutral with the handbrake pulled, and when they later examine it, the car is totally fine and working. And importantly, when they got to it, they noticed that the wheels are on top of asphalt, not a huge layer of snow, which means that whoever drove it was driving on a at least clear ish road. They stopped intentionally on that road and left it there before the storm came down.
- [29:34]
Britt
And is this like up the mountain or like down in the valley? Like on the way?
- [29:40]
Ashley Flowers
Okay, yeah, so it's up a mountain road about 4 miles or like 12 minutes from the closest town and not too far from where they were staying.
- [29:50]
Britt
So okay, the car's parked on again, clear ish road at least. If it wasn't snowing so bad, why would they stop?
- [30:00]
Ashley Flowers
I don't know. And I should clarify. Like, just because like they're not on top of a ton of snow doesn't mean that it wasn't getting bad. But you know, we were in Indiana. Like it takes a minute for the ground to actually freeze up hard enough to hold Snow, especially on a road that's being driven. So really, like, what police are thinking is that they pulled over because it was getting really bad. In my mind, it had to have been really bad for them not to be able to go 12 minutes back to, like, the nearest town. You know what I mean? But they talked to some workers who say that they got stuck in a snowbank on the same day that the same women went missing near where Gabriella and Jeanette's car was found. So, like I said, police are just thinking that the women. Which, again, why do you go out at the time? Like, it's getting bad. It's so bad in the 12 minutes it takes to get there. But whatever. Police think that, like, they saw it getting bad, they, like, stopped, they pulled over to kind of, like, wait it out. Because you are in a mountain, maybe you don't want to, like, drive down in whiteout conditions. Unfair.
- [30:54]
Britt
Sure. But then why leave their fully functioning car to venture out into the snow? You and I are super familiar with snow. You don't just, like, get out of a car to wander, to go someplace to, like, maybe find something. Tbd.
- [31:09]
Ashley Flowers
I know. So, yes, like, I understand the sitting and waiting kind of. If they decide to go when it's a snowstorm, they're 12 minutes away.
- [31:16]
Britt
If you don't feel safe, sure. Pull off the side of the road.
- [31:18]
Ashley Flowers
They think they got out because not too far off the road, it's like a short walk from where the car is parked. Police end up finding this house. So they learned that the owner of the house used it as a place for shepherds to stay during the summer, which is like a line straight out of the Bible. But in the winter, it's typically empty. And the house owner even confirms that it should have been empty that November, December, because repairs were being done on it. Except when police go to this house, they search the house. There were signs that someone had been there recently. Like, the fireplace is full of ashes, and there's burnt furniture, and there are used plates and silverware.
- [32:03]
Britt
Is there any, like, fingerprints or DNA?
- [32:06]
Ashley Flowers
So there's actually a note about them finding unknown fingerprints in the car that they sent off to agencies across Italy as, like, I mean, they sent Interpol, Scotland Yard, all of that. And they never say if anything comes of that, though I know Jeanette actually borrowed the car from a guy could be his, blah, blah, blah. All that to say they never say anything about Prince in the house, which I think is kind of weird, because I know they searched it pretty well, like, enough that they did find hair in the bathroom that they think might belong to Jeanette or to Gabriella. But in 1980, it's not like they can say for sure it's theirs with DNA. They're just doing like a visual comparison. Yeah. Maybe under a microscope or something. So they think that the women had been there. Like, again, they pull over, they go to this house, they even think that maybe they tried to signal for help by lighting fire on the balcony because they found burnt wood out there too.
- [32:57]
Britt
Which. How would all the searchers miss that?
- [33:00]
Ashley Flowers
Well, from what I can tell, this house is in a remote spot and I think it got buried in snow during the storm. Like, I don't even know how long a fire outside would have lasted or.
- [33:10]
Britt
Okay, but there's fire inside too. You said there's like ashes there, like smoke from the fireplace inside.
- [33:17]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, but if you remember, like, they don't start the search right away. And even when they do, they have to call it off for a little bit because the storm like picks up again. And so like, maybe, I don't know, I'm just guessing, but like, maybe like when there is a fire going on, there's no helicopters to see the smoke, no one out there to see the smoke. And then by the time that second storm passes through, like, everything's buried in stone. You're not setting fires on anything. So because they're not there, then police wonder, like, okay, did you see that? Like, all your options for like sending for help are gone. Did they possibly try to venture out on their own, like to one of those nearby towns? Right. Car is buried, can't use that. So they go to this, like, other local town, which is another ski resort, to try and piece together what other locals might have seen. But that honestly ends up muddying the waters even more because no one reports seeing Jeanette and Gabriela after the storm. Instead, there are even more reported sightings from the day they disappeared. Two hunters tell police that around 3pm that day they saw three people, two that they think were women, standing near a dark colored car close to where their car ends up being found. And then the manager of a hotel in town claims that he saw Jeanette and Gabriella three times that same day between 10am and 2pm when they came into his hotel for a drink. And when they left, the manager noticed Jeanette speaking to a man outside in a car. Now, I don't have a full description of this guy, but. But Generale Carlo Felice Corsetti, that is a mouthful. But he was an Original investigator on the case told us that the manager described this guy as well dressed in a way that stood out to him. So we've got that. And then around 8pm, the manager was driving down the mountain to Sarnano when he passed three cars. One of them a dark color car like Jeannette's. Now, this doesn't totally add up because police double check with Nazareno and the owner of the boarding house, and they both say that the women didn't leave the boarding house until around 9:45am which automatically doesn't make that manager's timeline work if he's saying he starts seeing them at like 10. And because of that inconsistency, police decide to toss his whole statement, which sends them back to square one. But that sighting up her at 2pm I think is really interesting because we don't like. Right. We have that window, it's in the.
- [35:46]
Britt
Middle of that, like 1 4, right?
- [35:48]
Ashley Flowers
So is this where they went in that time? Did they not go up the mountain, but they went to this ski resort at that time, for what? I don't know. Now, at this point, Jeanette's husband Steven had to go back to London, so police traveled there to talk to him. In the time since he's been back, he's been looking into Jeanette's finances. And he tells police that she had a few bank accounts, some in England, some in Italy, but there hasn't been any activity in any of them since the day she disappeared. And none of the traveler's checks that were issued to her in November had been cashed either. But in this meeting, he also mentions that Jeanette did some business with a gallerist living in London who happens to share a last name with a Sicilian crime family. And this starts to make police rethink those telegrams, even if they still can't make a clear connection to the Christie heist. This is like, I don't know, another red flag. They know Mafia bosses apparently used stolen art to launder money. So did Jeanette somehow get mixed up with the wrong crowd?
- [36:55]
Britt
Which, don't get me wrong, I would love to go back to these telegrams. I think they're very interesting and I have so many questions. When it comes to Jeanette, everything else seems to be pointing to an accident.
- [37:09]
Ashley Flowers
Well, it's almost like. It's almost like police are going around and around, like in circles, right? Like back and forth between theories. Because even in accident, like, there isn't one single theory that totally fits. Accident. Why stop the car? Why take shelter and then if you're gonna take shelter, why leave, Right? And then what are those, like, possible sightings of them with other people, other cars? If you go foul play and heist or whatever, like, then why do they find stuff at that house?
- [37:39]
Britt
I mean, what if they were, like, held there, though?
- [37:41]
Ashley Flowers
I mean, that makes just as much sense as, like, anything else to me. But by who, right? That's what they can't get a firm grip on. And listen, they keep getting tips about possible suspects and they run them down, but then it ends up being nothing. Like, there was one woman who implicated her ex boyfriend, said that he was a Brazilian gem dealer who bragged to her about killing two women, but they end up arresting him on something else. They show his picture around to people. None of those people can confirm that they ever saw him with the women. And they end up releasing him because, according to a Scottish newspaper, the ex girlfriend eventually even admits that she made it all up to get back at him for their breakup. And amidst all these bogus allegations and false leads they're chasing down, probably the most promising one gets totally missed on January 30, 1981. So this is almost two months exactly after Jeanette and Gabriela disappeared. Someone calls the Daily Mail's Rome office late at night, claiming to have information about the women. The tipster says that his name is Ian Sayre and that Jeanette got a telegram the day she disappeared.
- [38:52]
Britt
Another telegram?
- [38:53]
Ashley Flowers
Well, no, no, no, this is. This is the first telegram that she got. But he says that he knows about that telegram and he says another telegram has been sent to Christie's. The important part of this is that none of this had been made public yet. Now, because it had not been made public, the editor didn't take this seriously. So, like, we know this is important.
- [39:13]
Britt
But the editor who took the call didn't and was like, lol. What are you talking about? Bye, bye.
- [39:18]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, thank you, but no, thank you. So this kind of just stays in the back of this editor's mind, doesn't even mention it to anyone. But as more and more time starts passing, as police start getting hard up for leads, and they eventually start telling the public more and more about the.
- [39:34]
Britt
Case, he finds out about the telegram.
- [39:36]
Ashley Flowers
Yes. And that's when he's like, oh, shoot. So the editor first tries calling this Ian Sayer fellow at the number that came through on his old school telex. The number was for an Austrian hotel. And magically, Ian is still there. He is there researching a book with two journalists. But get this. When the editor has a reporter reach out. This Ian guy tells the reporter, I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't call you. I don't know anything about missing women in Italy or telegrams or Christie's auction house, but whoever made that call had to have made it from the hotel that Ian was staying at. It's not like they could just like, say that, because the way that it came through on the telex, like I was talking about, it's basically like a fancy typewriter that automatically records the number that the message is coming from.
- [40:29]
Britt
Oh, so it's not like the guy even like left the number. It came out of the machine. Yeah.
- [40:33]
Ashley Flowers
You can't fake it back then.
- [40:34]
Britt
Right.
- [40:36]
Ashley Flowers
So when they're kind of just like, like stumped, right? Like, they're like, okay, what? I don't know what this means. That's when the editor eventually passes this on to police who go and question Ian and the two journalists that are with him, trying to establish some kind of connection between him or Christie's or the women or freaking anything in this story. And it turns out Ian grew a door to door parcel business into this huge logistics company. Christie's was one of their clients, but they had like tens of thousands of clients. So, like, that doesn't seem like a good enough connection. His wife was a model like Jeanette was at one point in her life. But he told police and us because girl like the team put in the work on this episode. They were making international phone calls. He said that he had never met Jeanette or Gabriella, who. Who, by the way, like, Jeanette met Gabriella, like, long after her modeling days. And while we couldn't talk to the other two journalists that Ian was with because they've since died, their statements are in court documents. And both of them say that they had never heard Ian even mention Jeanette or Gabriella or this case until after that call from the Daily Mail came in.
- [41:46]
Britt
Yeah, because he was like, dude, this is weird.
- [41:48]
Ashley Flowers
So they've got nothing here and it like, it kind of just goes away. But they still will, like, follow up and question him for years afterwards, just seeing if this makes sense, seeing if they miss something, seeing if stories change. But eventually they completely move on from.
- [42:06]
Britt
This tip, which I kind of agree with. I feel like we can cross him off the list. Right. Ian didn't have anything to do with this. He doesn't, like. It seems super bizarre that he's even involved. But, I mean, someone staying at his hotel knew about those telegrams called or.
- [42:23]
Ashley Flowers
Somebody like passing through. I mean, they don't have to be staying at the hotel, but they had to have like been around yet, even.
- [42:29]
Britt
If they're just passing through. How do you know Ian's name to.
- [42:34]
Ashley Flowers
Give this is what I'm saying. It feels like such a spider web. Like, it's no wonder people get tangled up in this case because you want to just say, like, oh, someone maybe knew Ian and knew he was staying there and used his name. No, like we know it had to have come from the hotel. So someone had to like know he was staying there and be there.
- [42:53]
Britt
Yeah.
- [42:53]
Ashley Flowers
So what is this person doing in Austria then, two months after the women go missing? And it's not even like this is like a bad hoax. This person had to have actually known legit information that wasn't public.
- [43:03]
Britt
Right, because the telegrams weren't public yet. Okay, so did police look at other guests at the hotel? Did the hotel like keep records of who did what, calls? Were any of the employees looked at? Maybe?
- [43:16]
Ashley Flowers
Generale Corsetti told us that he like straight up flew to Austria. Actually he flew to many countries as part of his investigation. But he, he actually couldn't say much more than that. So I don't know what that entailed. I have to imagine you look at like everyone who is in that hotel or whatever.
- [43:33]
Britt
Especially if I'm thinking like employees who are at the hotel would have access to the phones, would have, like, who knows there? Who knows exactly. Who knows who's staying there?
- [43:41]
Ashley Flowers
From the court, I will say I don't know what they did. From the court records that we have, the things I can actually see, it seems like police were focused on Ian. I don't know how much they checked out, other possibilities, if at all. And I just know that Ian doesn't go anywhere. So months pass, the snow melts, seasons come and go, winter comes again, and there's still no Jeanette or no Gabriella. So on January 14, 1982, Stephen decides to make a broadcast like a public appeal for information. And Bert, I'm going to have you read the sections for me. One sec.
- [44:21]
Britt
It has now been a year since the mysterious disappearance of my wife Jeanette and Gabriela Guerin in the mountains above Sernano in the Marquet region. Gabriela's two small children, 12 year old Ottavio and 4 year old Joya, lost their father almost four years ago in a car accident. Now they have been without their mother for over a year and it is not fair to ask them to go on Living in the uncertainty of what might have happened to her. My wife's family and I, too, have endured the anguish and false hopes of a year marked by uncertainty. Despite repeated searches and police investigations, and despite the generous help of volunteers and local residents, this tragic disappearance remains a mystery. What could have happened? Surely someone must be able to release us from the torment and uncertainty of not knowing the truth. Was this disappearance the result of a terrible crime, or is there another explanation? So I'm really glad that he brought up Gabriela so much in this statement, because it really does seem like all the focus has been around Jeanette, especially when it comes to, like, all the foul play stuff. Did police ever really dig into Gabriela's life?
- [45:27]
Ashley Flowers
So this is one of those other things where it's like, if they did, I don't know about it. Like, it's not in any of the official documents or the reporting that we looked at. I think that police were much more heavily focused on Jeanette because, like, the world that she was in, right, The Rothschild, the.
- [45:44]
Britt
It felt much bigger, right?
- [45:46]
Ashley Flowers
Like the world she moved in just had more connections to what they think could be possible. Like, I mean, Gabriella lives a relatively simple life in comparison. Like, she just provides for her kids the best she could. After her husband's death, she didn't have enemies. She wasn't moving in the same world. So it seems like the consensus was that she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And we even tried to reach out to her family to ask, like, some of these questions, but we couldn't get in touch with anyone who knew her or her kids well. So this statement goes out because if anyone is still holding on to tips, police and Steven want to know. So Steven offers up a reward of up to 100 million lire, which is like it would be today, like $235,000. And he's basically looking for any information that will help solve this case. And he says there'll be even more if it leads to finding Jeanette and Gabriella alive. And this money, this is everything Stephen has to his name, and he is willing to give it all up to bring them home. And maybe that's what it took, because within two weeks, on January 27, he gets his wish, but not what he'd actually hoped for. Hunters hiking up the mountain find objects scattered across the snow in a ravine in this, like, densely wooded area about eight miles from where the cabin was. They're finding boots, purses, clothing, and then bones when police get there and do a formal Search right away, they zero in on a couple of things. First, they find a fork that looks just like the ones at the house that they believe Jeanette and Gabriella sheltered in during the storm. The second thing was inside the purses, which, by the way, nothing is missing from. They noticed two watches that they believe belonged to the women. According to a local Italian newspaper, Jeannette's watch is manually wound and Gabriella's is like a battery powered watch. Jeanette's stopped on December 12, 1980 at 7:20am Gabriela's stopped a week later, December 19 at 7:30am So a week and 10 minutes apart.
- [47:58]
Britt
Exactly.
- [47:59]
Ashley Flowers
Kind of spooky, I know.
- [48:00]
Britt
And when was the car and the cabin found?
- [48:03]
Ashley Flowers
So December 18th is when they found those things. So basically, Jeanette's manually wound watch stopped two weeks after they went missing. Gabriella's battery one stopped three weeks after and just one day after the car was found.
- [48:19]
Britt
So, I mean, if they would have waited just a little longer, they might have been found.
- [48:25]
Ashley Flowers
Maybe. If you want to stick to the theory that they took shelter from the storm in the cabin and then they ventured out to get help, which is clearly what this is meant to look like. But there are some real problems with that theory now that they have located the women. Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.
- [48:46]
Britt
Thanks.
- [48:47]
Ashley Flowers
And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need a trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it. There's always a trade in.
- [48:58]
Britt
Not right now.
- [48:59]
Ashley Flowers
@ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender. I'm good. Seriously. Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile, get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line, $100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement, $999.99 and qualifying ported for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Pay off via virtual prepaid for a low 15 days. Credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel. See T mobile.com coverage varies by plan. View contracts and exclusions@endurancewarranty.com if you're driving a car or truck with an expired warranty and suddenly lost your transmission or needed a full engine repair, would a $4,000 repair bill leave you stranded? I'm Danica Patrick. Don't get caught off guard with a vehicle breakdown. Choose the company I trust. Endurance, no matter the mileage. If your vehicle is less than 20 years old, endurance offers comprehensive auto protection plans for any budget, protection on the drivetrain, electrical transmission, AC and more, plus benefits like 247 roadside assistance and rental car reimbursement on any plan, Endurance handles everything from making the claim through the repair process to paying the certified mechanic of your choice. Don't get caught off guard with a vehicle breakdown. Act now and get one full year of elite benefits, a $2,000 value free. Visit endurancewarranty.com for your fast free quote today. That's endurancewarranty.com first of all, if the bodies were there the whole time, why didn't anyone see them? The investigator that we talked to said that that area that they were found in, it was outside of police's official search radius. But a local veterinarian says that he had set a fox trap less than 15ft away from where they found the remains. But he never noticed a smell there. I mean, he even remembers the exact spot when he goes back with police. And sure enough, there is still a bit of traps sitting tied to like a nearby shrub. Also, like, okay, fine, the guy didn't notice him. What, they both just laid down and died in the exact same spot? Like, I mean, animals had like gotten to the remains, right? Like, some of them had been scattered like bones, but like they're still pretty much intact in their clothes with their bags. Nothing seems to be missing.
- [51:34]
Britt
Well, and I'm thinking also they were found in January. And like, not that January, like time had passed like you said, seasons had changed again.
- [51:45]
Ashley Flowers
I think it's weird that they weren't found. But I'm just like, I also like, you think about two women, okay, we're going to venture out to get help. They just like, what are the odds? I'm saying that they like even like succumb to the elements at the exact same spot together and lay down. Like, what if, like I can see one of them was like, okay, well I'm going to keep going and I'm going to get help because now the situation is even more dire.
- [52:04]
Britt
Right. Like, you need help. I need to be able to bring people back to you.
- [52:09]
Ashley Flowers
And like the, even the watches, I mean, maybe it's because one was wound, one is battery. Who knows? It's. I just like, I think about other cases we've done where people have. Where they think that they died in the snow. They're not all found like this.
- [52:23]
Britt
If bodies are found together, it usually means they died together. And that seems really unlikely when exposure. Exposure is the cause of death.
- [52:30]
Ashley Flowers
Yes. And then more holes are poked in the exposure theory. When police talk to a mountain rescue volunteer who, who helped with the original search, he remembers that when the searchers went out, the snow was so deep that they could only get through on skis. So again, the women are waiting until after the storm, theoretically, to venture out to get help because they don't think anyone's coming. He doesn't think the women could have even physically made it to where they were found in that ravine on foot, especially because, by the way, didn't mention this. Gabriella was wearing a skirt, so I don't think she would have made it eight miles. And I go back to like, the fact that they're found together. Jennette is not wearing a skirt, like she was in pants or something. So theoretically, in my mind, she could have gotten farther if they did at least try. But I don't think they get the eight miles to begin with. And there was even still some uncertainty over whose remains were found. Like, there's no DNA testing yet. So Jeanette ends up getting identified through dental records. There aren't any on file for Gabriella, so it seems like police are mostly just relying on her clothes and stuff to identify her. And eventually forensic testing confirms that the remains belong to a woman. But that's like it. I mean, police seem pretty sure it's Gabriella. I mean, that's who went missing with Jeanette. And they have Jeanette. But they also don't like, look at any other possibilities based on the court documents that we read. But that ends up being like a huge open question to her family.
- [54:00]
Britt
Well, yeah, and again, I have questions about all of this, honestly, especially these hunters that found them. Like they just happened to stumble on these remains conveniently right after a reward was announced.
- [54:15]
Ashley Flowers
Oh, which they fully expect to cash in on, by the way. Just two days after finding the bodies, one of those hunters writes a demand letter to Steven's lawyer for the reward money. Remember, like, all the money to Steven's name. And Steven's lawyer is like, no, you legally have to tell police if you find human remains, like, that's a civic duty, not information.
- [54:38]
Britt
Yeah.
- [54:39]
Ashley Flowers
And even though Steven's still willing to pay them a portion of the reward, the hunter ends up suing him for the full amount. And wins.
- [54:48]
Britt
He sues this grieving husband who put this money up.
- [54:52]
Ashley Flowers
Yes.
- [54:52]
Britt
To find his missing wife.
- [54:54]
Ashley Flowers
And he, like I said, he ends up winning. He gets the full reward plus interest. But it doesn't seem like police ever look into any of the hunters as suspects. And maybe that's because at this point, they're not looking at this as a murder at all anymore. Especially when the medical examiner's report comes in on April 3rd. It shows there is no physical evidence of trauma. So, like, no blunt force injuries, no stab wounds, bullets, and which, again, we're just probably dealing with bones. But you can see that on the skeleton. And so going off of what he has, the medical examiner thinks that the cause of death is probably just exposure. And based on quote, unquote, he says this logic, he believes that the women likely died sometime right after they went missing. But there's no way, he says, to tell how long the remains had been in the ravine where they were found. So the ME Rules their deaths as accidental deaths from exposure to snow. Stephen gets permission to fly Jeanette's remains home to London, where they're cremated. Gabriella is buried in her hometown, and a prosecutor moves to close the case.
- [56:04]
Britt
Closed the case with so many open questions yet.
- [56:07]
Ashley Flowers
Mm. I'm with you. Steven is with you. According to Town and country magazine, in 1982, he reaches out to two journalists at the Sunday Times who have been reporting on the case. And he, like, he can't let it go, so he asked them to do their own investigation. And after months of work, the journalists come up with a brand new theory that they publish in this 20 page feature on November 7, 1982. You ready?
- [56:37]
Britt
Sure.
- [56:38]
Ashley Flowers
So they think that Jeanette set up a meeting in the mountains to sell an antique, but who she thought was a buyer was actually part of a Sardinian abduction ring. And they abducted Jeanette and Gabriella. And when the abductors thought that the women knew enough to identify them, they killed them. Right. Like, we know there's no ransom note. Right, but the journalists allege that if a note went to a family like the Rothschild, the journalists say that they would keep that kind of thing quiet.
- [57:11]
Britt
Why?
- [57:13]
Ashley Flowers
Partially for safety. Like, I mean, they have money to hire people outside of law enforcement to Advise them on things like this. Right. Like, so why risk getting police involved if kidnappers are threatening who they think is your family member? Who was your family member?
- [57:27]
Britt
Like, kind of keep it in the family.
- [57:29]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. And, like, plus, like, I remember this from the Getty kidnapping. The Gettys didn't want to publicize or pay the ransom at all because they thought that that would lead to more family members getting kidnapped.
- [57:39]
Britt
Yeah.
- [57:40]
Ashley Flowers
Like, I would think that, like, at least they would tell Steven. But again, maybe Steven would tell police. Because this kind of seems wild to me to, like, protect your whole family and just, like, like, leave her family wandering forever. But this is the theory. And whether that theory is true or not, it gets enough attention that investigators actually do take a deep dive into the evidence and re interview witnesses. So, like, closed no more. This time around, they notice another problem with the initial, like, theory or ruling or decision, and it comes to something so basic. It turns out the women probably couldn't have seen the house from the road where their car stopped.
- [58:19]
Britt
I had this question to begin with because, like, they pull off on the side of the road because it's so bad.
- [58:23]
Ashley Flowers
It's so bad. And they don't want to stay in their running car.
- [58:25]
Britt
I've driven in really, really bad snow, and visibility is, like, zero.
- [58:30]
Ashley Flowers
It's so bad, they don't want to drive 12 minutes back to the town.
- [58:33]
Britt
Right. They get out of the car because why? In theory, they're going to seek shelter in this house. But if it's so bad that they can't drive the 12 minutes back, how can they see the house?
- [58:45]
Ashley Flowers
They can't.
- [58:46]
Britt
So they're just getting out of their car into the white void of a snowstorm.
- [58:51]
Ashley Flowers
So when you put it that way, like, yes, they would have left their perfectly fine running car to just walk into the woods in a snowstorm, which is bananas bonkers.
- [59:02]
Britt
All that to say when they're found and their stuff is found, there is a fork from the house.
- [59:09]
Ashley Flowers
From the house, and there are hairs in the house that make it seem like they were there.
- [59:13]
Britt
Right. So how did they get there?
- [59:16]
Ashley Flowers
If they went there or who took them there?
- [59:19]
Britt
Because you would have had to know that this house was there to get from the car to the house in a snowstorm.
- [59:23]
Ashley Flowers
It makes me wonder, like, is the house not a shelter place, but, like, a meeting place? Mm.
- [59:29]
Britt
So it was like a pointed place.
- [59:30]
Ashley Flowers
That they were going to or someone took them. Right. Like. Like, someone took them there.
- [59:34]
Britt
Rendezvous point.
- [59:35]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. So listen, okay, so they're looking into this now because they. They've realized they had this big flaw in their initial theory.
- [59:43]
Britt
Yeah.
- [59:44]
Ashley Flowers
And when they dig like, when you actually, like, go down this road, the police end up learning that there may have been a connection between Jeanette and a very dangerous man who they discover also has ties to the Christie's heist.
- [60:00]
Britt
Christie's is back at Christie's back.
- [60:03]
Ashley Flowers
So as they're interviewing and then re interviewing people for this new investigation, police speak to one of Jeanette's friends who they show photos of people that they think she might have known. And the friend recognizes one of them, this guy named Sergio Vaccari. He is an Italian antiques dealer and reported drug dealer who'd lived in London until he was stabbed to death in his apartment on September 15, 1982, which is after the women have, like, disappeared. Whatever. So police in London were still investigating Sergio's murder when they searched his safe deposit box and found photos of stolen antiques, some of which, by the way, were taken during Christie's Heist in 80. They shared that with the Italian police looking into the heist, which is how Sergio got on their radar. So thank God they had reopened this investigation because I almost wonder, like, if it had been closed and nobody was thinking about it, like, would this have.
- [61:03]
Britt
Ever been, like, brought up, tied back together?
- [61:06]
Ashley Flowers
So they keep going down this road. I mean, this finally feels like it has some real weight to it and like, maybe can explain the things we couldn't before. And it keeps getting more solid. Through a man who knew Sergio, they find out that there was a name written in Sergio's diary. Jeanette. No last name, though. And that guy remembers that next to her name, he saw a phone number. Problem is, police can't track down Sergio's diary, so they can't track down the number or tie it to Jeanette in any way. But even without the diary, the more police look into Sergio, the more they think they may finally be on the right track. Because Sergio may have been involved in another mysterious death of an Italian banker. So I know I'm getting on a little bit of a tangent, but, like, you gotta understand who this guy is and like the world that we're operating in. So a British journalist tells police that a source, he can't say who, but it's someone in the antique dealing world who has come up in the investigation before. This source told him that Sergio had something to do with the death of man named Roberto Calvi. Roberto was the chairman of a Vatican backed bank. That collapsed in June 1982 after an investigation showed that the bank had committed massive financial fraud involving, like, secret offshore accounts, unauthorized loans, and, I mean, they had ties to mafia groups. After all of that, this Roberto guy fled to London, and then he's found hanging under a bridge. Twelve days later, his death gets ruled a suicide. Like, all done. Now, this journalist source says that he knows Sergio is connected to Roberto's death because once when he was in Sergio's car, he had opened Sergio's bag. This is the point where he's, like, alone in the car with the bag, and he says a few photos fall out. One of them was Roberto, and then there was another photo of Jeanette. And the journalist tells police that the source was still in the car with the pictures when Sergio came back. And Sergio actually told him that he was involved in Roberto's death.
- [63:16]
Britt
What did he say about the picture of Jeanette?
- [63:19]
Ashley Flowers
According to the source, nothing. Which makes this a great lead that they can't do anything.
- [63:26]
Britt
Right. That's kind of a dead end.
- [63:28]
Ashley Flowers
Even though they are now more convinced that the women met with foul play, they still can't say when or how. Even the why still feels fuzzy. And they definitely can't say who. So without any suspects to charge, even though, like, they feel like something different happened, the case still gets closed out in October of 1989.
- [63:54]
Britt
Okay, do police ever retest the physical evidence from the house or the remains or anything?
- [64:01]
Ashley Flowers
Not that I can tell. I mean, certainly not before 89. Like, there wasn't a whole lot new they could do. I know that. According to an Italian daily newspaper. So in 2005, a biology professor actually reached out to Gabriella's family, asking to analyze her remains. Like, I think they were hoping once and for all to confirm whether or not the remains belonged to Gabriella. Remember, there's kind of like a question about that. So her family lets this guy exhume the remains. They also give him a DNA sample. But this is so weird. When he runs the tests, it's only Gabriella's DNA that is present, no one else's. Which, like, feels like you're like, yeah, so what? No big deal. You would kind of expect something from Jeanette, right? Because, like, back in the day, think.
- [64:46]
Britt
About, like, this is happening in 80s. So they're kind of just like pushing everything together.
- [64:50]
Ashley Flowers
Not even pushing, like, even with how they were found. Like, animals could have moved stuff or whatever. Back in the day, like, what they had wasn't advanced enough, like, their type of tech or whatever to like separate the remains when they were processed. Right. You have like certain bones and you can probably guess based on height or whatever. But I think everyone kind of expected some mixing. And like we said, like, Jeanette's remains end up being cremated. And Steven refused to provide any samples though, like, I don't even know what samples he would have. So answers about what could have been hers or not hers, that's long gone. It's just like a weird thing. Again, I don't know that it means anything. It's just strange. And if you look into this case, you're gonna see it pop up. And for people who wanna get really conspiratorial, I think it lends to that. Like, was Jeanette actually dead again? They id'd her though, through dental records. I don't know. I don't know. But it's like things I've seen, people spiral on. So this testing gets done, but it doesn't bring police any new leads. And the case again goes cold and interest wanes until 2013. That's when a photographer named Marco Accetti makes some wild claims. Which brings the Vatican back to this case and an old crime junkie episode. So we did a fan club episode about the 1983 disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi. She was the 15 year old girl who went to a Vatican City school. I'll link to it in the show notes if you guys need a reminder. But Marco is the guy who claimed responsibility for her kidnapping while he was already in prison for running over a 12 year old boy. So when police had questioned him about Emanuela, Marco says that in the 80s he was involved with this secret group that acted on behalf of religious figures who opposed mainstream Vatican politics. And he says, like back to this case, that they wanted to recruit Jeanette for some kind of blackmail plan. Like they wanted her to falsely accuse the president of the Vatican bank. And this is the bank that Roberto Calvi chaired. They wanted her to accuse him of sexual assault, which. So he throws that out there and then he makes a 180 degree turn and says that they never actually got in contact with Jeanette and that her death doesn't have anything to do with him.
- [67:14]
Britt
So. So why bring her up at all? But. Okay, is there any connection between Jeanette and Emanuela? Or does this guy just confess to everything for fun? Yeah, I don't like, if I remember correctly, like he. They never actually found a connection.
- [67:28]
Ashley Flowers
No, I don't think there's any connection besides like him, right?
- [67:32]
Britt
Like he's just like bringing it up.
- [67:34]
Ashley Flowers
In both his versions, like Jeanette and Emanuela were like tangential pieces in his group's Vatican blackmail plot. And like when I tried to like, see if there's any like, ties, like, the only thing I could find was that Steven hired the same lawyer as Emanuela's family. But that's about it. And Emanuela's family has been clear that they think Marco made up the allegations involving their daughter for attention. So if that's true, it's very possible he's doing it again. But I mean, it's a clickbaity story. So it's no wonder that the media just kind of runs with it when it happens. Which, like, you know, it's like double edged sword, right?
- [68:14]
Britt
Like it's, it's media attention, but it's like the wrong, it's the wrong direction.
- [68:19]
Ashley Flowers
But it does bring attention back to the case. And maybe because of that, maybe because of something else that's happening that we don't know. I do know that just In November of 2024, Jeanette and Gabriella's case got reopened as a double murder investigation. And the one thing they said is they did this based on inconsistencies that they found in witness statements.
- [68:40]
Britt
Which, like, which witnesses?
- [68:42]
Ashley Flowers
When, yeah, would love to know, but like we're seven, eight months now into the reinvestigation and they haven't shared much more than that. Like, I spiral and I'm like, okay, are we talking witnesses that get tied up in this art, whatever. Are we talking about like the people in the town?
- [68:58]
Britt
Like, there's so many options for witnesses.
- [69:02]
Ashley Flowers
I know. And if what we need is stuff from witnesses, like, time's running out to get to the bottom of this mystery. Steven is still alive, as is Gabriella's daughter Joya. But so many people, some witnesses included, maybe even suspects are being lost. Two families have been waiting for answers for over 40 years now. And according to what Joya told an Italian news outlet last year, hope is a hard thing to have anymore. I mean, she's been let down too many times. But she also said that knowing the truth, whatever that truth is, might finally lift the burden that she's carried on for over 40 years. So if anyone listening has information about Janette and Gabriella's case, it is not too late to come forward. You can contact the local prosecutor's office in Italy. We're going to list their contact information in the show notes. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com.
- [70:12]
Britt
You can also follow us on Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast.
- [70:15]
Ashley Flowers
We'll be back next week with a brand new episode, but we got something extra for you. Please stick around for some good news if you're new here. Hi, welcome. We have this segment we do called the Good and it actually started with a Slack channel that we have at the audio check office. We have so many listeners and fans who write into us, who send us letters, who DM us, who contact us in some way telling us about the way Crime Junkie the life rules. The shows, the information has done something.
- [71:06]
Britt
Good in their lives.
- [71:07]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. And it can be, you know, related to cases sometimes, but a lot of times it's been like really unexpected ways in which the show is like out there making the world a better place. And so we started a little segment where once a month we share with you guys some of the stuff that we're all sharing internally on a daily basis. So this is what we call the Good.
- [71:28]
Britt
Okay, Ashley, are you ready?
- [71:29]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah.
- [71:30]
Britt
I know this is like your favorite part of recording. Hello crime junkies. 23 year old female crime junkie based in New York City here. My mom and sister have been huge crime junkies slash fan club members for years now. I was always resistant thinking I'd find the episodes too scary. Until that one April floor episode that my mom sent me. And as a fellow longtime swiftie, I was hooked. If you know, you know. Fast forward to last Thursday. I had met a friend for a wellness class followed by an impromptu dinner. When we finished up, it was around 10pm So I decided to walk home up 5th Avenue rather than take the subway. Keep in mind I had showered after our class and was walking 16 blocks with semi wet hair in February. Maybe it wasn't the best idea, it was freezing, but I was almost home and turned down a side street street to walk my final block home. That is until I saw this woman who looked my same age. She was sitting on the concrete with her knees bent, propping up her crossed arms where she buried her head so I couldn't see her face with throw up all over her and all around her. It was an unusual amount of throw up even for a drunk person. And she was there on the side of the street all alone in the freezing cold, having clearly been there for some time now. I've lived in New York City for years and see weird stuff all the time. But I just had this strong feeling that this woman needs my help and if I leave her, who knows what will happen to her. While she was conscious and coherent to a point where she would likely be fine in the morning. I was more concerned about the fact that her vulnerable state had made her a clear target for other external dangers, especially being a young woman. Having listened to so many crime junkie stories, I I know how important it is to not ignore one's intuition whether we are in danger or someone else is. And I was thinking of the yogurt shop murderer who waited for all the other strangers to leave before committing their gruesome murder. I had walked up just as she was telling another man who stopped by asking if she was okay, never lifting her head, I'm fine, go away. In a deep kind of voice I would also try to use to appear tough when approached by a man I didn't know. I asked her to too. Same response, I'm fine, go away. As the other man left, I just had this feeling that I can't leave this woman. After some gentle prodding, she agreed to let me call someone for her and sit with her until her emergency contact arrived. I just knew that the only reason she let me assist her was because I was a peer and more importantly not a man, which would later be confirmed as she told me, sorry, men scare me. This was one of the few things things she would say to me during our whole 45 minutes together. After I called her emergency contact, I immediately FaceTimed my friend John, another crime junkie, to tell him where I was and what was going on. He stayed on the phone with us the whole time. I also shared my location and sent messages about what I was doing with my mom, boyfriend and two roommates in an effort to keep another safe. I also had to watch my own back again. The scene I walked up to was attention grabbingly grim and as you can imagine now just two young women on the side of the road in the night fallen city. We solicited a lot of unwanted attention as we sat there. Everyone who walked by had something to say and most of my job sitting there with her was fending off random people and getting them to leave her alone. I was shocked by the men who came up to hit on her while she was clearly so unwell. Really bro? Seeing how insistent some of these men were being, I couldn't help but wonder what would have happened happen to her if I hadn't been there. Anyway, as we sat together with John on FaceTime, we said very little but I knew she appreciated me being there. As she would later say, please stay. I would reply, you're going to be okay. I'm going to stay after her emergency contact came to take her home. I finished my walk home down the block to my apartment. I think I'm still unpacking everything that happened that night. But I wanted to say a huge thank you to Ashley and Britt and the crying Junkie staff for all that you do. You seriously changed my life, making me so much more aware of the ways to protect myself and those around me and the necessity of this. Just getting this one woman home safe has already made the world a so much better place.
- [75:29]
Ashley Flowers
It is like, it's like the little stuff of like that. Like the stories where you can easily say, like, well, nothing happened. I'm like, that's the point.
- [75:37]
Britt
Exactly. The best stories are the ones that nothing happens.
- [75:40]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. And if like, in a world where like, we're losing community, like, right, we're all so isolated, everything's online. Community's so hard to come by. To be able to like, help a.
- [75:50]
Britt
Stranger, to like, reach through that separation, that divide.
- [75:54]
Ashley Flowers
The world's really dark and it's like the good segment gives me hope again. Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? At Strayer University, we help students like you go from will I to why not? For over 130 years, we've been innovating higher education to make it more affordable, accessible and attainable so you can reach your goals. Go from thinking can I? To yes, I can and keep striving. Visit Strayer. Edu to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chevin at many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.
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Britt
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Ashley Flowers
Pair them with sleek low profile sneakers.
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Britt
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