Crime Junkie Podcast Episode Summary
Title: WANTED: Justice for Rhys Pocan & MMIW Part 2
Host: Ashley Flowers
Co-host: Britt
Release Date: February 24, 2025
Presented by: Audiochuck Media Company
Introduction
In the gripping second part of their investigative series, Ashley Flowers and Britt delve deeper into the mysterious and disturbing pattern of dismembered victims in Wisconsin. Building upon the foundation laid in Part One, this episode uncovers the tragic stories of Ray Tortolot and Julia Baez, two additional victims whose cases intertwine with the enigmatic murder of Reese Pocan. Through meticulous research and heartfelt interviews, the Crime Junkie team sheds light on a series of unsolved crimes that have haunted communities across the state for decades.
Expanding the Web of Victims
Ashley Flowers opens the episode by highlighting the extensive search for patterns beyond Reese Pocan's case. Reporter Emily's investigation reveals that between 1982 and 2021, at least 12 dismembered victims, predominantly women, were found across various Wisconsin counties. These cases span different jurisdictions, making it challenging for law enforcement to connect the dots and address the possibility of a serial killer.
Notable Quote:
"For the most part, yes. Which we're thinking is maybe why no one has kind of looked at this holistically before." — Ashly Flowers [01:41]
Ray Tortolot’s Tragic Disappearance
One of the central figures discussed is Ray Tortolot, a Menominee tribal princess and Reese Pocan's cousin. At just 18 years old, Ray's disappearance on October 14, 1986, marked the beginning of a harrowing investigation fraught with obstacles.
Key Events:
- Last Seen: Ray was last seen leaving a house party on the Menominee reservation. Initial reports indicate she left alone but was later seen leaving again under unclear circumstances.
- Search Efforts: Tribal police organized search parties, questioned attendees, and enlisted canine units, but Ray remained missing for two and a half weeks.
- FBI Involvement: Despite reaching out, the FBI initially declined to assist, citing a lack of evidence indicating foul play (Ashley Flowers [02:04]).
- Discovery of Remains: In April 1987, Ray's dismembered body was found by a hunter. The investigation confirmed her death as a homicide, but crucial evidence, including her head, was never recovered.
Notable Quotes:
"Honestly, it's going to be a little easier because Crime Junkie actually is pretty well known now." — Ashley Flowers [02:05]
"The investigation stalled, though no excuse is an acceptable one to Elise and her family." — Ashley Flowers [15:35]
Julia Baez’s Mysterious Case
Julia Baez, a 36-year-old Puerto Rican mother of four, disappeared in June 1990. Her body was discovered dismembered in Black River Falls, Wisconsin, in October 1990, mirroring the gruesome pattern seen in Ray's case.
Key Events:
- Disappearance: Julie was last seen on June 18, 1990, after an argument with her boyfriend, Pedro, at a local tavern.
- Investigation Flaws: The police report revealed a critical error—searching an apartment that did not exist (Ashley Flowers [32:02]).
- Discovery of Remains: Julie's dismembered body parts were found months later, but with no immediate connections made to other cases.
- Identification: In 2015, DNA testing linked Julie’s remains to her family, bringing a semblance of closure, though the murderer remains at large.
Notable Quotes:
"You gotta be kidding me. She basically predicted exactly what was going to happen to her." — Britt [24:20]
"It's so crazy, because I had gone into the Jane Doe network year after year, and I had seen the Jane Doe from Black River Falls." — Marisol [38:17]
Connecting the Dots
Detective Nathan Hatch from Sheboygan County emerges as a pivotal figure attempting to link these cases. His efforts to compare suspect lists and case files between Ray Tortolot and Reese Pocan's investigations highlight systemic failures in jurisdictional cooperation.
Key Points:
- First Meeting: In October 2024, investigators from various counties and federal agencies convened for the first time to discuss potential links between the dismemberment cases.
- Persisting Challenges: Despite the meeting, no significant breakthroughs occurred, primarily due to the elusive suspect information and differing jurisdictional protocols.
Notable Quotes:
"I reached out to the Jackson county sheriff's department and found out that there was evidence, Physical evidence they had." — Detective Nathan Hatch [26:46]
Voices from the Victims’ Families
The emotional weight of these unsolved cases is palpable through the heartfelt testimonies of the victims' daughters—Charlie (Reese's daughter), Julie (Julia's daughter), and Elise (Ray's daughter).
Emotional Highlights:
- Charlie: Expresses the longing for closure and the profound sense of loss (Charlie [43:35]).
- Julie: Seeks justice, desiring answers to why her mother was taken (Julie [44:02]).
- Elise: Shares the ongoing pain and the need to keep her mother's memory alive (Elise [44:22]).
- Michelle: Advocates for greater attention to missing women of color, emphasizing the disparity in media coverage and law enforcement efforts (Michelle [45:26]).
Systemic Issues and Investigative Hurdles
The episode underscores the fragmentation of investigative efforts across jurisdictions, lack of communication between agencies, and insufficient resources allocated to these cases. The Crime Junkie team highlights how these systemic flaws have allowed a potential serial killer to evade capture, leaving numerous families in perpetual grief.
Key Challenges:
- Jurisdictional Barriers: Separate counties handling cases independently prevented unified action.
- Lack of Evidence Sharing: Critical evidence remained siloed, hindering comprehensive investigations.
- Limited Resources: Overburdened local law enforcement struggled to address the complexity of the cases.
Notable Quotes:
"This is her mom's literal life." — Ashley Flowers [18:08]
"Our own people, they get tired, too." — Michelle [45:28]
Ongoing Efforts and Community Call to Action
Detective Hatch continues to push for breakthroughs by collaborating with various law enforcement entities and urging the public for any leads. The Crime Junkie team, too, remains committed to unearthing more details, appealing to listeners for information that could reignite these cold cases.
Call to Action:
- Listeners' Role: The podcast encourages the community to come forward with any information that might help solve these cases.
- Contact Information: Detective Nathan Hatch can be reached at the Sheboygan County Sheriff's Office for tips (Ashley Flowers [48:21]).
Notable Quote:
"Crime junkies, please help us get justice for Reese, Ray and Julia and all of the Wisconsin dismemberment victims." — Ashley Flowers [46:42]
Conclusion and Hope for Justice
As the episode concludes, the Crime Junkie hosts emphasize the importance of keeping these victims' stories alive. Through their persistent storytelling, they aim to inspire both the public and law enforcement to pursue justice relentlessly. The heartfelt messages from the families serve as a poignant reminder of the human cost behind each unsolved mystery.
Final Thoughts:
"There's so so much power in the collective human consciousness." — Ashley Flowers [44:19]
Notable Quote:
"I just want justice. I think after we find who did this to her, I'll be able to feel relieved because my mom didn't deserve this." — Julie [44:02]
Supporting Voices: Good Segment
The episode also features a touching segment where Lydia, CEO of Survivor's Companion (formerly Freedom Canine Project), thanks the Crime Junkie community for their support. This acknowledgment underscores the podcast's broader impact beyond investigative journalism.
Notable Quote:
"They really came through and helped us grow in ways I never could have expected." — Lydia, CEO and Head Trainer [49:06]
Join the Community: Crime Junkie invites listeners to contribute to the ongoing investigations by sharing any relevant information. By fostering a collaborative environment between the public and law enforcement, there is hope that these long-overlooked cases may finally see justice.
Contact:
- Detective Nathan Hatch:
- Phone: 920-459-3135
- Email: nathan.hatcheboygancounty.com
- Podcast Contact: crimejunkiepodcast.com
Follow Us:
- Instagram: @crimejunkiepodcast
Final Message:
"We felt like the best thing we could do at this point is to just, like, get everything we do have out there for people to hear... maybe someone out there knows something about these Wisconsin women." — Ashley Flowers [42:22]
This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the second part of the "WANTED: Justice for Rhys Pocan & MMIW" episode from the Crime Junkie podcast, capturing the key discussions, insights, and emotional narratives presented by the hosts and those affected by these tragic cases.