← Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno
Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno
28 Years to Life: Did the Las Vegas Politician Get Away with Murder? | Live from CrimeCon
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- [00:04]
A
This is crime and Justice. I'm Donna Rotuno. Today we are recording live from Las Vegas, Nevada, at the biggest true crime convention, crimecon. Before we jump in today, just a quick reminder that if you aren't already, you can watch the video versions of our episode right on Spotify. Plus, if you're a Spotify premium user, you can stream the show completely free of ads. So wherever you're listening or watching right now, we'll make sure that you hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. The Las Vegas Strip is no stranger to crime. Just miles from here in 2022, a prominent reporter was murdered outside of his home in broad daylight. The man who was eventually convicted was an elected official right here in Clark County. Mike Ruiz of Fox News Digital is here with me. First, Mike, look at this ballroom we're in, Donna.
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B
This place is packed. We are in Caesar's palace in Las Vegas. It's a pretty big room here, and there's a lot of people here, so it's interesting to see this thing grow.
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A
Well, we know CrimeCon is always popular, but Vegas really brought the crime junkies out today. Since we're in Vegas, we decided we're going to talk about one of the crazy cases that has happened here not far from the Las Vegas Strip. And tell me a little bit about the case of Jeff German getting murdered by Robert telles back in 2022.
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B
Yeah, so Jeff German was a newspaper columnist. He was an investigative reporter. And this is a guy whose career began in the 90s when that was a really big job, you know, compared to what that is today. He had prominence in the area, and he did a lot of investigative work, and he was working on some stories about a local politician the Clark county administrator named Robert Telles. Tellis. His responsibilities were dealing with the estates of people who died without a will or without an executive.
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A
Not a very glamorous political job.
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B
Right. But it's somebody that needs to have integrity and needs credibility, as they all do. And some of the work that Mr. German was doing exposed bad behavior. He was having an affair. He was allegedly mistreating and bullying other people in his office. And he exposed some of that stuff. And he had done a series of articles about Robert Telles in the lead up to his murder. And then on September 2, 2022, he was killed with a knife in an attack outside his home in broad daylight.
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A
And lay that out for me a little bit. Talk about how that happened in broad daylight, because the circumstances were quite extraordinary, given the fact that it was during the day and the fact that, you know, the person who was eventually convicted of this, Robert Telles, was dressed in a very bizarre way. And so talk to me a little bit about what happened out there that day.
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B
Yeah, so he wore, I guess, a disguise, a distinctive outfit. And one of the big things was this orange, this bright orange shirt, like a safety colored, bright orange. And he had a straw hat and he had these distinctive shoes. And he did it apparently in his own maroon colored suv, which was all caught on video. All of that caught on video. And while the video wasn't good enough to show the guy's face, guess what they find under the victim's fingernails? DNA of a politician who this guy was writing about. I think the jury was pretty quickly able to put two and two together. They came to a guilty verdict on that.
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A
Talk to me a little bit about, for two people like us who follow stories, especially you, you are, you are running stories down, you're getting information, you're putting things out for the public to know. And really your job is to look for the truth. And it's not always to be popular or never really to be popular. And you're out there trying to find what really happened in cases. Talk to me about what this says or how it makes people like us in this field feel when we find out that this can actually happen.
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B
Well, you know, it's scary and it's concerning because in America, you know, the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the Constitution is the freedom of the press. And it's because it's important for the public to be able to know what's going on in their society, mainly so that they can vote and live in the society they want to live in. So when someone's doing reporting in this way, exposing corruption, exposing infidelity on someone who's supposed to be a person of integrity, it's important for voters to know. And the reporting actually led to this guy losing his primary. And that is believed to be the motive for, for the murder.
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A
And when we think about it, this happened a few years ago and the political violence wasn't really where it is today. And we seem, we're seeming to see that there's a rise in this type of violence happening against people who either wrong you or have this ideology difference and they feel like they're more right than you are or they have a right to act this way. What do you think we're looking at here when we talk about how that affects people that really are exposing things like this, whether it's Political or otherwise.
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B
There's probably a degree of self censorship. There's probably, you know, just concern for your own safety. I mean, look. Look at the Nancy Guthrie case. Shivana Guthrie is a prominent television host. She was, you know, not a controversial person, but she had money, and her mother was targeted, and we don't know who did that yet. Yet. But she's a public figure. And this somebody, for some reason, went after her mother, potentially in her own words, because they thought that they could get money from her.
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A
Yeah, it's really extraordinary. And again, we're talking about media people and the targets that you can have on your back if you just say something that somebody else doesn't like, frankly. And this went a little bit further than that because he had a true motive to go after Jeff. And now Jeff was found dead outside of his home, and he wasn't found until a day later. So he laid there, which is also a sad aspect, I think, of this case. Tell me a little bit about that.
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B
Yeah, well, it's. I mean, look, it's the desert. I mean, even though it was September, it wasn't that cool. And that's not a pretty scene to come across a day later.
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A
Well, I found the DNA under the fingernails quite extraordinary. And there's almost a part of me that feels like somebody who had done this type of work his whole life knew the importance of making sure there was evidence left behind, because, what, he was stabbed seven times in a very short period of time. I mean, we could see on the video it was seconds. So I don't know, there was something about that that I thought was almost intentional on the part of Jeff Gearman.
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B
I think it probably was. And also, I mean, just. I think Randy could expand on this a little bit later when you talk to him, but he was not. He was not a cowardly guy. This was a guy. He was rough in his writing and rough in his personal life. I think Andy's got a good anecdote to share that he knows about personally. But this was a guy who I don't think cowered away from. From this attack and knew probably, hey, this guy's going to get caught. Let me make sure I help whoever investigates this case.
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A
Well, since we're in Vegas, it's a good time to remember the great work that he did and for you as a journalist, to keep doing your good work. Mike, thank you so much for joining me at CrimeCon. Joining me now is Randy Sutton, retired lieutenant from the Las Vegas Police Department. Randy, thank you for joining me at
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C
Crimecon It's a pleasure to be here.
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A
Is this your first trip to CrimeCon?
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C
It is.
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A
And what are you thinking so far?
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C
I'm pretty impressed. I think I may have to come back.
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A
I think you will. I think you will. Well, we hope that you do. So, Randy, let's talk about Jeff Gearman and the conviction of Robert Telles that happened here in Las Vegas. And talk to me about Jeff. Just crime in Las Vegas in general kind of set the scene for me a little bit about the types of things that happen here, the types of things that Jeff Gearman was investigating and the types of articles he was writing that led to this.
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C
Sure thing. So Las Vegas has a lot of crime. This is a very, this is a tough town to be in. There's, you know, runs the gamut from drugs to, to murder. I mean it's, it is like every other city. However, it has the distinction of being a 24 hour town that, that has a whole different set of nuances. Now Jeff German, I knew him personally. He was a fearless reporter. He was a guy that was not afraid of, of telling the truth and going after bad guys. I can tell you a quick anecdote during the now, the Las Vegas had a lot more mob influence back in the early days than it did, than it does now, of course. Well, there was a particularly violent offender here named Tony the Ants Balatro and he, he was, he ran this town. Well, Jeff German was not afraid of writing about him. And at one point they actually ran into each other at a restaurant and wound up in a fist fight.
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A
Wow.
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C
And so Jeff didn't, didn't shy away from controversy, didn't shy away from going after people that he, that he felt deserved to be targeted. Now Jeff, excuse me, tell us. Was a, he was the public administrator here and many people don't know what the public administrator actually does. So if you die and there's nobody that your relatives, you have no relatives or there's no will, there has to be someone that, that is responsible for taking your, your property and safeguarding it and looking into the estate and where to find relatives and things like that. That's what the public administrator does. And it is an elected position. Many people don't even know what that position is. So Robert Telles gets elected to that position. Now he has got a lot of issues, right? One of the few facts that did not come out during this investigation was that Kellis was already under investigation.
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A
Oh, interesting.
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C
For corruption and, and, and there were so many issues at the office. For instance, he was having an affair with one of his female employees. And because of that, the other female employees in the office believed that. That he was showing favoritism to her. Now, it's a small office.
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A
Sure.
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C
Everybody knows everybody's business, and they knew that he was having an affair.
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A
Well, and weren't there other issues with him, too, where he was very. Authoritative, I think would probably be the right word. He was telling people who they couldn't, couldn't, could and could not speak to at work and very tough on the woman. Women who work there. And I've watched several interviews with them where they talk about just how awful he was to work for the environment in that office. And so I think leading up to this, he had this really awful reputation. And maybe as more of this started to come out, the walls were kind of closing in on him.
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C
No, absolutely. He had a reputation for being. Authoritative is a nice word. If you looked up the word hostile work environment, he probably had his picture there. And of course, in fact, just last week, the county actually paid out $400,000 to the women in the office. That literally just happened last week. So they. They made their issues be known about his conduct. Well, they went and did what they were supposed to do. They followed the rules, and they reported it up the chain of command, but nothing was really done. So they went to Jeff Germany, and if you see some of the interviews with them, they looked at Jeff as he was their hero because he actually started doing the investigation.
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A
Well, he heard them. He heard them when everybody else was turning their ear.
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C
Exactly. Exactly. So Jeff began his journalistic warfare, if you will. And tell us, as a result of that was exposed.
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A
And wasn't he tweeting about it and putting things out there and sort of going on the defensive against Jeff? Wasn't there like some.
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C
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He. Yeah, he went. He went after Jeff. Not the smartest move, because all that did would.
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A
Yeah. Poking the bear.
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C
So as a result of this,
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B
he
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C
lost the primary for the next election. And I think that that was the straw that broke the camel's back, if you will. As far as his. You know, now he's. He hates Jeff German with a passion. He just destroyed his life.
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A
Again, someone who takes no accountability for their own behavior. Right. He's going to blame Jeff and say he'll blame Jeff German instead of saying, you know what? Maybe I'll look at my own actions as to why I ended up here.
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C
And in fact, when even at the trial, he still never took.
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A
Right.
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C
Accountability. In fact, he. He came up with some insane conspiracy theory.
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A
I want to talk about that, but let me first talk about what happened at the time of the actual murder, because I think the things that took place and the way they actually, law enforcement actually got to him is pretty interesting here. And I. Let's go through that and then we'll get to the trial because his smug attitude definitely didn't, didn't help him. So let's talk about this. Crime happens. It happens in broad daylight on the streets, right in front of his house. And you can see on security cameras at least the sequence of events. Obviously it's difficult to tell who the people are, but it's obvious that there's a struggle. It's obvious that the body goes down. And talk to me about pieces of, pieces of evidence left behind and then what that actually led to.
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C
Sure. So when the, the violent, the violence that took place here, he was stabbed seven times in a short period, like in, in, in seconds. And this attack, you know, I can tell you that, that, you know, from my law enforcement experience, stabbing is a very personal way to kill someone. And, and German, I guess in his own warped mind, thought he was the master criminal and dressed up like a.
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A
Tell us, tell us.
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C
Yes, well, during the, during the attack, Jeff Gurman fought back. And as a result of that, not only did he get some, be able to scratch and get DNA under his fingernail belonging to German, but German also was stabbed himself. So finger.
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B
Right.
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A
Was.
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C
He left. He left, he left his own DNA there. So, you know, this is where the forensic abilities at a crime scene are so essential.
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A
Absolutely.
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C
And, and the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department has a really good crime scene unit and lab, so they, they played a massive role in this. But as far as the investigation goes, there was a lot of, lot of evidence here.
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A
Sure.
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C
For instance, he, he thought that he was being very smart and instead of using his own car, he used his wife's car.
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A
Right?
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B
Yes.
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A
What, what a. Lots of degrees of separation there right now.
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C
He didn't have a license plate on the car. And, and this is interesting because during the investigation after he was murdered, reporters from the paper began their own surveillance of Telus and they actually got photographs of him washing his car and putting the plates back on.
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A
Wow, that's, that's damaging evidence.
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C
That's really damaging evidence.
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A
And you know what? God bless the people at the newspaper that decided to continue to do that work because they're showing, tell us that you can't silence these voices no matter what you do. I think that's really important. Wow.
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C
Exactly. But there was also some other really interesting factors to this that led to his conviction. One of the things that really never came out is that he was, tell us, was already under investigation.
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A
Right.
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C
For corruption related activities. And at the same time that, that all of this turmoil was taking place, he was continuing his conduct. Right. Now, reason one, one of the, one of the things that, that happened is that his phone was turned off for a four hour period. But here's the thing. He never turned his phone off because he had a, he had a, his child had diabetes and so he would always have his phone on. So that was another factor. All of these little building blocks, of course, as you know, that's what builds a case.
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A
I call them dominoes. Set up the dominoes. Set up the domino. Set up the domino. And at the end you knock them all down. Right. And then it shows the whole picture, basically.
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C
Exactly. So there was, there was a lot going on here, but to put all the pieces together, that's where the investigation has to go in order to, you know, get a conviction.
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B
Right.
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C
And so that's where the skill of the investigators.
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A
Absolutely, absolutely. And I like good police work because even though I'm now a defense attorney, I'm a former prosecutor, and good police work helps both sides. Frankly, it helps me too. It's convincing somebody to say, ah, you might want to look at this and see if you want to do something different here other than go to trial. But let's talk about. Okay, so they get the DNA from underneath Jeff's fingernails and then that leads them obviously to Robert. And then they get a search warrant for Robert's house. So let's talk about what they find in the house.
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C
So the, the search was very critical to the, the building of the case. They did, they did find the shoes that were utilized. They found the very distinctive straw hat. That was part of his brilliant disguise.
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A
It wasn't it like cut up into pieces. I mean, he tried to. It's like if you went to the lengths to cut it up, why don't you get rid of it?
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C
Like we said, we're, we're not dealing with a rock inside here.
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A
Brazen.
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C
Yeah. But they did. So they found the critical evidence that once again, forensic analysis played a role in that as well. And so all of these factors at, when it, when it came to the probable cause, develop that probable cause to actually make the arrest. Now during that time period, he did like a, a faux suicide attempt, but you didn't. That wasn't very convincing either.
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A
And with an ego like that, usually suicide, they don't really follow through normally.
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C
And that ego was on display all the way through the trial.
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A
It was, and it was on display. He had done an interview that I watched, and he's talking about how he's going to prove that he was framed. I mean, because obviously, once they find those items in your home, and then he says they were planted, and they're like, first of all, how do you prove that? Number one, right. That. That's. Anytime anybody says, oh, they planted that, or I don't know how my DNA got there, it's like, well, you know, that's always a very tough argument to make to a jury without any true proof. And not that that's never happened in the history of cases, but it's a. It's a tough burden to overcome.
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C
And. And what he was. And this conspiracy theory that he was putting forth was that because he was such an honest public administrator, right. He had determined that a. A real estate company was involved in some nefarious dealings and that they're the ones that framed him.
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A
So it's so interesting. Randy, talk to me a little bit about your experience as an officer here in Las Vegas. Tell me about your experience and how the job was for you and what your worst, best and worst parts of the job.
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C
You know, I can easily answer that question. I was a police officer in Princeton, New Jersey, for 10 years before I came to Vegas. And I came here looking for the weather. Yeah, well, the weather, yes. But when I. When I became a police officer here, it answered what I was looking for, and that was the challenges of being a police officer. And Vegas in the. In the time period where I came out here was still like old Vegas. So there was. There was a much smaller community here, but yet it was a very. It was a rough place to be and continues to be.
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A
And talk to me about part of the rough crime that was going on here and the things that Jeff Gearman was investigating. I mean, there were mobsters here. And like, you were talking about Tony the.
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C
Tony the Ant.
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A
Tony the Ant. And that was played. He was played by Joe Pesci. Right. And Casino.
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C
In fact, here's a little tidbit.
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A
Yes.
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C
I was actually in the movie Casino.
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A
Good movie.
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C
With De Niro and Sharon Stone.
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A
There you go.
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C
Which was kind of.
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A
Kind of fun to hear, of course. Yeah, that's a. That's a fun resume builder. So. So Tony the Ant. There was a lot of mob action happening in Las Vegas at that time, and Jeff was really One of the main journalists that was investigating a lot of that crime.
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C
Oh, absolutely. He was fearless, you know, and, and
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A
those people took no prisoners. So, you know, he definitely was fearless to push back against all of that.
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C
Exactly. Now he, during that time period, he was, he was our journalist here for about 30 years, if I remember correctly. And I, I actually had a beer with him on a couple of occasions and I found him to be a, a very pleasant guy. Great storyteller.
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A
Oh, sure.
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C
And so I was very disappointed when I read about his death. And it was one of those things where I'm a huge believer in the First Amendment.
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A
Yes. We need fearless voices.
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C
And you know, there was actually an issue about this that, that was something to talk about.
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A
Yeah, I think you're right. And during the trial and prior, there was a lot of obviously pre trial litigation and one of the issues was whether or not they were going to have to give up his sources after death. And the court ruled, the Supreme Court here ruled that you would not have to do that and that his sources could remain confidential. And I think that's a huge decision and the impact of that is crucial. Quite large.
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C
Well, this wound up to be a two year court battle. Yes. And there was, there were accommodations made though, because, you know, and this is, this is a really interesting legal argument and a moral and ethical argument. Where does, where does the, the privilege line.
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A
Yeah.
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C
When you want. And, and of course the newspaper, they wanted his crime solved.
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A
Sure.
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C
And yet they had to try and safeguard that First Amendment issue. So it's really an interesting case.
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A
It is interesting. And so let's talk about the trial. So he goes to trial and walk me through what the trial looked like as it was, as it was happening.
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C
So it was, this was a major trial.
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A
Sure.
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C
This had the attention of, well, not only the national audience, but remember, there's relationships here, you know, that, you know, Gurman's relationships tell us his relationships. And this, although this is a large city, still a small town.
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A
Sure.
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C
And so it garnered a tremendous amount of attention. And of course, you know, anything can happen in a murder trial.
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A
Absolutely. And one, maybe there's one juror, there's one juror who says, you know what, I can't tell from that video who he is. And the car's not enough and the DNA is not. You never know. I mean, there's always somebody that holds on to one aspect of the. A case that maybe you or I would never think about. So, yeah, anytime you go to trial, it's a risk for both sides.
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C
And this is where the District Attorney's office, that's. This is, this is their moment.
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A
Yes.
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C
Right. They have to, they have to take all of the complicated issues of the case, all of the testimony from the witnesses, from the forensics, from the detectives, and put that into a convincing show, if you will.
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A
Absolutely, absolutely.
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C
For that jury.
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A
Yes.
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C
And, and they did a hell of a job.
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A
Well, and I think too, people don't understand the pressure. And, and I, I talk about this on both sides. So when you're a prosecutor and there's a media case and the world is watching and there's a lot, in a case like this, there's a lot of interest involved, not only the parties themselves. When you're talking about journalism under the broad spectrum, there's a lot of people that were wondering what was going to happen here, because journalists don't want to be in a position where they think they have to fear for their life if they're out reporting what they believe to be the truth. So I think that aspect makes it difficult. I think that puts pressure on the prosecutors. But yet at the same time, I always say, but your job is to seek justice. Your job is not to get a conviction at all costs. However, when the evidence is very clear here, there's a lot of pressure to
- [26:13]
C
get a conviction for sure. And of course, you know, when you're talking about the media as involved as it was, every nuance of this case is on display.
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A
Yes.
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C
And so every, every wart is going to show. And that's why, you know, you have to be so meticulous when it comes down to putting a case like this together and then presenting it.
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A
Talk to me a little bit about the fact that this article about Telus was going to come out like, what, hours after this assassination. So I think that aspect of motive was probably front and center.
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C
Oh, I think that that was a critical part of the case. Now, he had already been releasing information, which of course, is what led to all the scrutiny on him and then his eventual loss at the primary. So it was already in the works. But I think the big expose was the one that was about to come out.
- [27:16]
A
So. Because there was other evidence here, the DNA obviously, was huge and the car was a big deal and all those things. But without those things, you have Jeff Gearman, who is someone who had a lot of enemies. Right. Because he wrote a lot of stories about a lot of people and especially enemies that are bad people.
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C
Right.
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A
It's very difficult for law enforcement without those other pieces of information, because otherwise you have this huge list of people that are potential suspects.
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C
And, and I think that, that Tellis was counting on that as an aspect to his, in his big planning that, that because of, of the, the enemies that he had made that, that this would be cover for him.
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A
Right. How important do you think it was? And obviously not very because he was convicted and he's serving 28 years to life in prison. But how important do you think it is when the prosecution doesn't have the murder weapon because they didn't find the knife here? So how important do you think that is?
- [28:23]
C
The murder weapon is, is like the piece de resistance. You know, you have that you, and you can tie it to the scene. Like if, if they had found it, right, the, the, they wouldn't, he would never have been able to work, work all the blood off of it. Right. It would have been, it would have been another nail in the coffin, so to speak. But you know, there are, there are cases where they don't even have a body and you can still get a conviction based on circumstantial evidence. So in this particular case it would have been really nice to have that, but because of the overwhelming amount of evidence, it was not a necessity.
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A
Yeah, I think you're right. I think it depends on the case. I mean, I've had clients over the years that say, well, they don't have the gun and it's like, yeah, but they have the gunshot wounds, so they know the manner of death and they know what happened. So you know, the gun, like you said, it's kind of the icing on the cake, but it's not a necessity in terms of finding the gun or the knife or whatever the murder weapon is. I was talking to you about this a little bit earlier today and I really do think, think given what happened here, I mean this was a premeditated assassination. I mean, obviously, yes. And to me that 28 year sentence seems pretty light. So I know it's 28 to life and I know it's. Well, it's 20 plus 8 for the enhancement of the murder weapon. But explain to me why you think that was the number and how judges usually sentence around here and what, what you. Cuz to me that seemed like a, a light sentence.
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C
Well, I think that statutorily, I think that the judge was tied to that, to the whatever your maximum is.
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A
So that 28 to life is just the gauge that they have to impose and then the parole board gets to decide what they want to do about it.
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C
Yeah, I think we can be Betting people here and saying that. I don't think to tell us is we'll ever see the light of day again. Considering the brutality of this murder.
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A
Yes.
- [30:19]
C
And the fact he never took accountability, all the factors that someday he might, you know, go to a parole board and have some sympathy.
- [30:27]
A
Right.
- [30:28]
C
They don't exist here.
- [30:29]
A
Well, don't you think, too. You know, a lot of times when cases go to trial, defendants will argue that a lot of information about them is more prejudicial than probative. And it can't come in as evidence, but that doesn't mean it doesn't come in as evidence at a parole board. So when you're talking about him going before the parole board, I think all of his behavior that maybe wasn't relevant during a criminal trial in regard to the murder of, you know, Jeff German. I think at the end of the day, the, you know, the parole board is going to say all the behavior in the office, all the behavior with these other women, the way he treated people, I think all of that matters to the parole board. I mean, this wasn't a guy living an exemplary life. The other corruption investigations, I think all of those things play into whether or not the parole board thinks somebody can truly be rehabilitated.
- [31:19]
C
And, you know, that evidence that you're talking about that comes into a trial, well, they're very stringent.
- [31:28]
A
Correct.
- [31:29]
C
When you're talking about people that can testify at a parole board, there's a lot more latitude.
- [31:35]
A
Correct.
- [31:35]
C
And look at the years. They're going to be years that go by before he's even eligible for that.
- [31:41]
A
Correct. Let me ask you, too, about some of the work that you did, because I know you came down and did a lot of work in Arizona on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. So talk to me a little bit about how that case is becoming more and more difficult to solve, given your law enforcement background. Talk to me a little bit about that while we're here at CrimeCon, because that's a big topic here this week.
- [32:04]
C
Yeah. I got to spend quite a bit of time down in Arizona, in fact, working with Mike.
- [32:08]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [32:09]
C
And we're. It was an incredible experience, and I luckily had some. Some relationships that. That I learned some things about what really took place and what. What kept this case from, I think, being, you know, still is unsolved.
- [32:30]
A
Yes.
- [32:31]
C
And. And now as a law enforcement officer, I am. I am prone to believing in those in my profession are going to act professionally and. And responsibly. That was not the situation, and I was very Critical then and I'm critical now of the leadership of the sheriff of that. Of that county. It's my belief that from the very beginning, he did not act properly and became a hindrance to this investigation. A critical hindrance that I believe may be a cause for this crime not being solved.
- [33:12]
A
Yeah. I have to agree with you as somebody who's been involved in many investigations on the prosecution and the defense side. I look at this, and I think that there were many missteps along the way, and now it came out, I think just last night that Nancy Guthrie has spent. Or excuse me, Savannah Guthrie has spent a half a million dollars of her own money on investigators. And I'm wondering. I mean, it's sad that she feels like she has to do that because obviously she feels like law enforcement has failed her. Let me ask you this. Do you think that as much as you understand her desire to want to turn over every stone and go down every rabbit hole, do you think that that hinders having other people come in and sort of investigate? Do you think that hinders the investigation that's currently ongoing or that it can affect it in a negative way at all?
- [34:02]
C
I think at this point, any set of eyes that. That goes on this. That can reveal any piece of evidence that. That was not determined or any. Any. Anything that can move this case along at this point, I think would be welcome. Now, you know, here, people need to believe in their law enforcement. They need to believe that they're. That they're not only capable, but they're ethical, they're professional, they have integrity. When you see something like this case, where you see a sullying of the potential of the reputation of not not just the. The. The sheriff, but the agency itself, and with a visibility that this case has had, it is. It is almost an embarrassment to law enforcement. And that's. That hurts my heart.
- [34:56]
A
Sure. Absolutely. Well, like I said, I've been on both sides of. My grandfather was a Chicago police officer, so I understand. Randy, I see you're wearing a shirt that says the Wounded blue. Tell me about that.
- [35:08]
C
Well, it corresponds to a question that you asked me a little earlier. You asked me about the best and the worst parts about being a police officer here. And I loved being a cop here. This was a great place to work. Challenging. But it led to a situation that changed the course of my life. And what ended my police career was suffering a stroke.
- [35:33]
A
Oh, wow.
- [35:34]
C
In my police car.
- [35:35]
A
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [35:36]
C
Right. On Las Vegas Boulevard. And it ended my police career. Almost ended my life. But what took place next is what is really what had a lasting impression and changed the trajectory of my life to create the Wounded Blue. And that's my own department turned its back on me and said, we're not giving you your benefits. We're not paying your medical bill. And I was shocked. I mean, it led to some very dark places.
- [36:01]
A
Well, and you're still here supporting law enforcement and your department, which is.
- [36:04]
C
Well, because of being so visible in the law enforcement community, from being on shows like Cops and writing books and being in the media, cops from around the nation started reaching out to me with their stories. Randy. I was shot in the line of duty. My chief never even visited me in the hospital. They're not paying my medical bills. One story after another. And I realize that this is a national issue and there was no national resource, but there is now, and we are the Wounded Blue.
- [36:32]
A
Well, that's amazing. And you know what? What an important thing to come out, especially at a place like this. So for anybody listening, make sure you donate to the Wounded Blue, because I think that's a really amazing organization, and I'm glad to hear about it today.
- [36:44]
C
I appreciate that. Thank you.
- [36:45]
A
I can't thank you enough, Randy, for being here with me at CrimeCon today. I think it's important to remember while we sit in Vegas that. That Jeff German's life was important. His work was important, and we want to make sure that those here continue the work. I mean, we see what's happened in journalism with the rise of all these people running around wanting to be involved and solve crimes and bring things to light. It's really important, and we'll both continue to do that.
- [37:09]
C
Well, I appreciate the opportunity and look forward to talking to you again.
- [37:15]
A
Thank you for joining me for another episode of Crime and Justice. Remember, we want to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, questions, or theories, and we will answer them on air.