← Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno
Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno
Harvey Weinstein’s Rikers Gamble & John Gotti’s Grandson’s Mercy Plea
00:39:12
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- [00:01]
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- [00:28]
Donna Rotuno
screen I'm Donna Rotuno and this is Crime and Justice. On today's episode, we're going to be discussing Harvey Weinstein's interview within Rikers island jail to the Hollywood Reporter as well as John Gotti's grandson's interesting way to attempt to get out of serving jail time. Also, we're going to talk about the Boca beach attempt murder case happening with a 90 day fiance. Aluminum. Can't wait to get through all of these topics today. And joining me to do so is attorney James Leonard out of New Jersey. James, thank you so much for joining me today.
- [01:09]
James Leonard
Donna, thank you for having me. It's my pleasure.
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Donna Rotuno
This is great. I can't wait to talk about all these things. James, first tell me how you've decided to be a criminal defense attorney.
- [01:23]
James Leonard
That's a very good question. So I came from a family where my father was a police officer, my younger brother is a police officer, I married a former prosecutor. But somewhere along the way I decided that I wanted to be a criminal defense attorney. I guess the, the black sheep of the family. But no, I, you know, watching things when I was younger, reading the newspaper, I see seeing things on television. I was drawn to, you know, the old school big city criminal defense attorneys standing up for people defending their rights. Just something that I saw when I was young and I decided that I wanted to do that.
- [02:03]
Donna Rotuno
I love it. And talk to us a little bit about some of the cases you've handled. I know personally I've watched some of them. And so tell our listeners and our viewers about some of the cases that you've handled that are a little noteworthy that they may know something about.
- [02:16]
James Leonard
So I've represented different people that are involved with reality television. I was involved for many years with Teresa Giudice and her family. She's on the Real Housewives of New Jersey. I represented people on the Jersey Shore television show. I represented little Kim the rapper. My, my biggest criminal case that people might know it's been the subject of documentaries. It's been the subject of television series. I represented a man who was charged, who was suspected, I shouldn't say charged, was suspected of murdering four women here in the Atlantic City area back in 2006. This has been on A and E. It's been on Fox. It's been everywhere. I maintain from the outset that I didn't think that he was responsible for those deaths. Here we are 19 years later, almost 20 years later. He's never been formally charged, but he was the guy that they wanted to charge. And that was very early in my career and kind of put me on the map down here in South Jersey. I've represented a lot of alleged organized crime figures. I know we're going to talk about John Gotti's grandson. I actually know his mother, Victoria. I know his uncle John Jr. And another, an angel. So I'm going to talk about that. But I enjoy what I do. Have had the opportunity to represent a lot of noteworthy figures as you have. And it gives us a perspective when we go in and we represent regular, everyday figures. Right. It's kind of like the. I go into courts and they'll say, I've seen you on television. And I'm like, yeah, but now I'm here with you in the county jail. So forget about what you saw on tv. Let's talk about your case. So it's kind of bizarre. They're watching. They see it. I know they see you when you're on television, right? You've been on Fox, you've been all over. And then you're going into a county jail or a state prison and they know who you are because they've seen you on television. It's very interesting.
- [04:22]
Donna Rotuno
You're right. It is interesting. And what I always tell my clients is your case is exactly like the one that was on tv. It's just like. It's just that somebody else decided to put a camera in my face. But it's one. One is no different than the other in terms of the way they go through the system and the that you have. And so I always try to say the camera means something to everybody else that's pointing the camera in your face. But it doesn't really mean anything to me when it comes to representing a client. So I couldn't agree with you to make that very clear. Because you're right. Yeah, because you're right. So really interesting. Just the other day we find out that Harvey Weinstein sat down and gave one of his first real sit down on the record interviews. He had started to talk to Candace Owens for a period. And then it was very strange, she started these interviews with him and then they never really completed. They didn't really go to fruition. There was a couple phone calls that she had taken with him that she transcribed and documented. But this was the first real sit down interview where he actually was asked questions and gave answers. And I found it really interesting that. That and full disclosure to the audience. For those who do not know, I was lead counsel for Harvey Weinstein and his trial in New York City back starting January of 2020 and completed actually ironically, six years ago yesterday. And so that was the first trial, the first MeToo saga, the first time's up, you know, craziness that was happening during that period of time. And so full disclosure, I still speak to Harvey, but I really want to talk about not only the interview, but whether or not you would have advised him to sit down and do that, whether it was a good idea. Because I know I have my opinions on that. For six years I've been telling Harvey probably best to not answer those questions, especially given the fact that he has cases still pending. So let's kind of get into that interview. Tell me, James, would you have advised him to do that interview if you were his lawyer?
- [06:25]
James Leonard
Absolutely not. I think. I think the interview was a disaster. I think it's ill advised. I think the only entity that benefits from that interview is the Hollywood Reporter who published it and the reader. Because I do think it's fascinating as a reader to get a window into his life on Rikers island and to get his thoughts on different things. But none of it serves, in my opinion, none of it serves Harvey Weinstein. And you know, from working with him and other high profile individuals, a lot of times what happens is you get people, whether they be publicists, media strategists, different people that enter into the fray, that their voice carries weight. And our clients listen to people because at the end of the day, they are high profile for a reason and they have egos and they think that they ultimately will know best. But when you're a criminal defendant and you are in ongoing criminal proceedings, you should be listening to your criminal lawyer who is tasked with getting the best result for you. So I would have never advised that. I think it just was not a great idea. And it's. When you see it as a criminal defense attorney, you're cringing as you're reading it because you. I just. I don't see any upside for Mr. Weinstein and I don't see how it's going to help. I. Yeah, no, not a good idea. Not a good look.
- [08:03]
Donna Rotuno
Yeah, I agree. And I, and I was thinking about it and of course I listened to it and a lot of it. And in terms of the content, in terms of what Harvey actually said, and I saw some clips of it that were posted by the Hollywood Reporter. I also listened to the story when I was traveling or on a StairMaster and I was listening to the story being read from the, the text in the Hollywood Reporter. And what I found most interesting was the color given by the person who did the interview. And he had worked for Harvey at one point, so they knew each other. And my guess, and I don't have any independent knowledge of this, but my guess is that Harvey figured this person might be a little bit more sympathetic to him if they had a prior history. But frankly, that is not at all what happened. And think he really threw Harvey under the bus. And I think that the content of what Harvey said is actually probably a lot of things that I would have said about that situation. But unfortunately, he was going to get torn apart regardless of what he said, unless he came out and said, I'm guilty and I did everything that they accused me of and I'm the worst person ever. But anything else he said was not going to get any backing from, from the Hollywood Reporter.
- [09:20]
James Leonard
Correct. They were never going to write it in a way that was going to be fair or authentic to what he was trying to convey. And at the end of the day, I do think, and I read the article, I don't recall if I read that there was an attorney present when he was given this interview, I. That part escapes my recollection of reading it. But if, if Harvey was my client, I would have been, and again, I would have not advised him to do that interview. But if he was insistent and said, I'm going to go forward with this, he should have had counsel with him and counsel should have tried to steer that ship a little bit and really get an idea of how they were going to write it. But yeah, the Hollywood Reporter in 2026 is not going to write anything that's going to be favorable to Harvey Weinstein and he should have known sitting down with that entity how it was going to be framed. He's obviously a very media savvy individual. He's been around for a very long time, long before his legal troubles. He knows how that game works. I'm surprised. I think it's indicative of the fact that, you know, he's been away from society for so long, his judgment might be clouded. This might have been a moment for him to regain, you know, some familiarity and put himself in the limelight there, that he thought he could control the narrative. Unfortunately, I. I don't think it turned out the way he wanted it to. Can I ask Don?
- [10:57]
Donna Rotuno
Yeah, I agree with you. And watching it and the way I.
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James Leonard
Of course I want to ask you. As being someone that worked so closely with him and was so involved with that, when you read that and you see that, how does it make you feel? Do you say, oh, geez, you know, Harvey, what are you doing? Or do you say, hey, I don't really know the current landscape because I'm. I'm a little bit distant from it. But what was your reaction? I'm curious. As someone that was so close and so integral and at such a very important time in his legal journey, when you saw that, what was. What was your thoughts on that?
- [11:39]
Donna Rotuno
So, initially, the first thing I thought was a feeling of pity. I feel sorry for Harvey. I feel like Harvey has done his time. And I have said from the beginning of time, when I took that case, that I thought Harvey Weinstein was guilty of sins and not crimes. And there's a big difference. I also thought that Harvey Weinstein was swept up by a moment in time that was never going to be truly fair to him. And I do think that if these cases came to fruition today, they may be looked at a little bit differently. I mean, I think the pendulum has swung back a little bit. I think people are starting to realize women that are adults have agency. And so there's part of me that looks at it, and I feel sorry because I just don't think that the punishment fit the crime here. I think he was made an example out of. And in our case, the appellate court saw that they went after him in unfair ways, and they had too many extra proof of other crimes. Malinois witnesses. And so, you know, they made the call that the case should be reversed and sent back, and that's what happened. But then I also, you know, in some ways, even though Harvey's been gone for as long as he has, it was quintessential Harvey. And my guess is that he probably was advised to not do it and decided that he was going to do it anyway and that he felt like he's been waiting to tell his story, and now he's of a certain age and thought, you know what? I just should. Should do this. And the person who sat with him was Not a lawyer, but his PR guy, and I've known him, he worked with us during the case. He's a great guy, runs a great firm. And I'm sure he may have gotten tired of saying, no, it's not the right time. And, you know, and just kind of acquiesced to the point where it was like, okay, if you want to do this, what. What more can happen to you that's going to be negative? So from that standpoint, there's a part of me that says I'm kind of glad he got to tell his story. I just wish it would been done in a more controlled and different way. And I think actually talking to Candace Owens may have emboldened him a little bit, because I think Candace was fairly sympathetic to him in her interviews, and I think maybe he thought he would get that same treatment. And I just don't think that's what happened.
- [13:50]
James Leonard
You know, I listen the media in, in this day and age, they're looking for headlines. They're, they're. We're finding, we're seeing that, particularly with high profile individuals, you're seeing more hit pieces right where they have their agenda and it might not align with what they told you they were going to do. We're going to let you get your say in. We're going to write it fair and balanced. I think the only people that this benefit is the Hollywood Reporter. They're getting a lot of clicks on this. It's being shared, it's being circulated. It's big news. And look, maybe Harvey feels this was a time for him to say what he wanted to say. Like you said, what's going to happen to me? What. What can you do to me that hasn't already been done?
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Donna Rotuno
Right.
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James Leonard
But just was with cases pending and with other ongoing legal proceedings, wasn't the time. I don't think it was the appropriate place. But I guess time will tell.
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Donna Rotuno
It will. And I guess the question is too, is this an attempt at the some level of some redemption? And if it was, it most likely failed. I mean, I don't think that interview was something where people are going to say, oh, you know, I have a different view of Harvey Weinstein. I don't think it moved the needle. Your view of Harvey Weinstein was what it was. And I don't think that interview changed it.
- [15:10]
James Leonard
I agree with you. Sadly, I don't know that there's anything that he can do to change that. Right. I mean, you. And we talked about this. You had that line about, you know, the emotion of the case taking over, which I thought was a phenomenal and appropriate line at that time. It was just so powerful. And it spoke to the moment. It spoke to, you know, me too. It spoke to all of that. Unfortunately, I think the emotion of that case has forever defined him and I don't know that there's anything that he's ever going to be able to do that's going to be able to change that. Right. So, you know, yeah, maybe if he
- [15:52]
Donna Rotuno
just writes a book and puts it out there where. Whereas his book is not challenged and it's just his, his version of the events and then, you know, and then he moves on. I don't know. Let's shift a little bit to P. Diddy because P. Diddy is in the same facility that Joe Giudice was in. And I know that Harvey in his interview talked about being beaten up in, in prison and that the only person who has really been able to help him is this prison consultant that he hired. And, and I've met Craig. Craig's a great guy. And, and Craig has helped navigate that for him and many other of our clients moving forward. So tell me a little bit about the experience that Joe had in the same facility that Diddy is in and whether or not prison consultants are helpful. And obviously you have to be able to afford prison consultants to, to have them. But give me your thoughts on that.
- [16:45]
James Leonard
So let me say this. So that, that federal prison, it's the Fort Dix Federal Correctional Institution. It's a federal prison that is on an Air Force base. So when you go to the facility, you're going to a Air Force base. Okay. You're going to the Fort Dix Air Force Base. And when you go to that complex, I would say 90% of the visitors are there to conduct business on the Air Force base. The federal prison part of it is a very small portion of this massive complex. And I know that you've been to county, state and federal prisons all over the country. What is unique to me about FCI Fort Dix, after you go through all of the, you know, guard booths and you tell them what you're doing there and they tell you where you're going, you end up in this open air facility with inmates walking where you're driving your car. So you are. And I've experienced that at other facilities. But when you're parking your car to go into the facility, there are inmates walking through the parking lot as you're parking your car. It's a very low security. Now, I don't know where Diddy is ultimately housed. I do know that there's privileges, but I believe that he is specifically there because he's participating in the RDAP program, which is the residential drug abuse program that ultimately would shave some time off of his sentence. And quite frankly, I think it has affected his release date, which the last time I checked I think is in April of 2028, which is about two years from now. That doesn't take into account his halfway house eligibility and things of that nature. And I think that when he successfully completes the program that sent that, that sentence, projected release date is going to come down. But Joe, actually, Joe Giudice navigated that facility very well. He had absolutely no problems that I remember he served a 41 month sentence. I believe he did all of his time there. I remember being a part of where we turned him in. I believe we turned him in at that facility. I don't believe he ever left Fort Dix until he ultimately went into immigration custody after he served the custodial sentence. I will tell you, as far as federal prisons go, you couldn't ask for a better location, right? You couldn't ask for a least restrictive. So I don't think, I think Diddy, coming from the MDC in New York or Brooklyn, wherever he was, could not be happier with his current assignment. I think that it's, you know, certainly a great place to be. But you bring up the prison consultants, I've worked with them. I, I haven't worked with this particular one. That's that you're referencing. On the Weinstein case. There were some good ones that I've come across, and then there were some that were simply just looking for a payday. The good ones that have helped get placement, that have helped get house arrest, location monitoring, et cetera, and really just kind of get someone's head in the game. Hey, you're getting ready to go serve a federal prison sentence. This is what you should expect. Or you're going to serve a state prison sentence, this is what to expect. I do think that experienced criminal defense attorneys like you and I can do the same. But sometimes people that have worked within the system know better, particularly in the federal system, and prison consultants can help. But I think it's interesting, I think that where Diddy is currently at, it's in close proximity to New York. There are a lot of individuals from New York. I know that he knows people that are in that facility. I know that he knew people. I actually had a former client that was housed with him when he was in New York so kind of got a window into what his life was like. I don't think anybody was bothering him. Ironically, at that time, I think Luigi Mangione was probably more high profile than Diddy was. I mean, that was the, the case. That was the case at the moment. That was getting a lot of attention. But certainly Diddy was getting a lot of attention. But I think now for him, where he is at Fort Dix, he's probably looking to do that program, wind this sentence down. I think he will be 58 years old or younger when he comes home. He's got a lot of life ahead of him. The question will be to your point about Weinstein, will he be forgiven or is he forever defined by what happened here and will he find his way back into society? Look at Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson went away for a rape conviction that he disputes that he wasn't guilty of. But to the satisfaction of a jury, he was convicted. He went. Mike Tyson has certainly been looked at over the years as somebody that has been given another chance. He runs, you know, a great business, lives a great life. I've met him. He's a completely.
- [22:24]
Donna Rotuno
Well, that's the key though, James. That's the key. That's the key. Mike Tyson turned his life around. The question is, does Diddy have it in him to do the same? And Diddy's going to be plagued by that video of him beating Cassie in the hallway for a long time, even though that's not what he was convicted of.
- [22:41]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
I agree.
- [22:42]
Donna Rotuno
That is what you will be convicted of in the court of public opinion.
- [22:46]
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- [22:59]
James Leonard
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- [23:01]
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- [23:03]
Donna Rotuno
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- [23:08]
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- [23:16]
Donna Rotuno
Let's move on to the Boca Bash. So I'll give a quick little summary of what this is. For those who do not know, the Boca Bash is a party that takes place place in Boca, Florida and Boca Raton, Florida and boats get together. It's like a day long event. They tie the boats to each other, they have these parties, everybody's drinking, partying on these boats in the Hot sun all day long. At this party was a. What could go wrong? Exactly. Exactly was a 90 Day Fiance alum. And as she's at this party with her boyfriend and his name is Cole Goldberg, they get into an argument, he throws something at her. They're kind of fighting all day. At some point she jumps in the water and, and says while she's in the water, she has this weird sensation. Next thing she knows, he's trying to strangle her and hold her underwater. His defense to the court, because the trial is happening right now, his defense to the court is I was sinking, not strangling, and I was trying to grab onto her to save myself. So that, that's the story. She has testified. This case is happening in Palm Beach County, Florida, in front of a judge that I actually just finished a trial in front of at the beginning of February. One of the most fair people I've ever been in front of. He just gave every side a fair trial. And the defendant here, Cole Goldberg, decided to let the judge decide. So this is a bench trial, not a jury. So let's get into this because I think there's some interesting things to talk about here. The fact that first he decided to do a bench trial. And let, let me just lay this out. The prosecution's theory is that this is a domestic violence situation that escalated and that he turned it into going to strangle her. And the defense theory is, has nothing to do with that. He felt like he was drowning and sinking and tried to grab onto her. So let's talk about, number one, why a defendant would pick a bench trial in a situation like that rather than a jury.
- [25:24]
James Leonard
So the only. I've been, I've been practicing for 25 years in Superior courts. I've probably done a half dozen bench trials on serious felonies. The only time that I have ever done a bench trial, it's typically after conferences with the court, conference with the prosecutor, where I've gotten some indication from a judge that based upon what the judge knows about the facts and circumstances, you know, if this was tried before me, this is what would happen. And it's kind of a, I don't want to say a wink, wink, nod, nod, but it's, it's a way to move a case quicker that is not going to plead. You don't want a long, drawn out jury trial. And you can try this case in a day or two in front of a judge that's familiar enough with the facts. So every time I've done that, I've been successful But I've never rolled the dice in front of a judge without me having a really clear understanding of what I think the judge might do. So if it's. If I'm going to roll the dice and risk it, I'm doing that with a jury, not with a judge. Right.
- [26:40]
Donna Rotuno
But yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree with that 100%. I agree with that. We do a lot of bench trials in Cook county, in Chicago, but it's, it's really more like you said, of a time saver situation. There are so many cases on these dockets here that if, if you don't, you can't move cases. So a lot of times you might do a pretrial and like you said, you'll get some type of an indication or, you know, a case is just really a loser one way or another, and you decide, okay, we have to do this, and if we don't do a jury, the defendant will get a more fair sentence because we're not wasting the court's time. So we call it the jury tax here in Chicago. Everybody says it doesn't exist, but it does. And so I think that you're right. My guess is that there's probably been some, you know, reason that this defendant decided to do a bench. But I have to tell you, I listened to her testimony, and her testimony seems pretty clear that she was terrified and she saw the look in his eyes and he had the two hands around her throat and. But at the same time, she's also saying, he's not a violent guy. I don't really want anything bad to happen to him. So I'm wondering if this is a prosecutor that just won't let it go. And, you know, the defense is saying, we're going to put it on because even the victim is saying that this guy isn't really violent.
- [28:04]
James Leonard
So when I read about this, and look, I've never really watched a full episode of 90 Day Fiance, although I have to admit, I go to bed a lot of times with my wife watching it as I'm falling asleep with me saying to her, please turn this off. And she continues to watch it. But from what I read about this, the allegations are that the alleged assault takes place on a boat that they're both on and that the woman, in an effort to escape the assault, goes into the water. So she takes herself off the boat, goes into the water, and is now swimming towards another boat. And I believe the allegation is he then leaves the boat, follows her into the water, and continues the assault in the Water, which is certainly far more dangerous than the assault on the boat. All of this apparently is happening while people are partying on all of these boats around them, and then someone intervenes, etc. I think there's a lot of alcohol here. I. You know, it's unfortunate. Obviously, it sounds like she is the victim of domestic violence. To what extent that is, I don't know. I think that if I was his defense attorney when I read the article, you could certainly make the argument that he was trying to preclude her from jumping into the water and he was, you know, holding her and trying to keep her on the boat, perhaps trying to keep her safe. Maybe she had been drinking. I don't know. I do know this. I did read in. In an article that the plea offer was six months in jail, probation, and that he write an essay. So I don't think we're talking about.
- [29:52]
Donna Rotuno
Yes.
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James Leonard
Apology letter, custodial exposure. Right. If he. If he can, if he's convicted, it's going to be interesting to see. But you know this, Donna, better than anybody. Anybody, anytime you have a victim in court potentially advocating for a defendant, you don't want to be the prosecutor in that case. Right. When the victim is saying, I don't think he's violent. Right.
- [30:14]
Donna Rotuno
And I think that's. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's why the plea was six months. I think they were probably trying to placate everyone. You know, what can we do? That he has a punishment for his behavior, but not obviously as risky, because an attempt attempted murder, he's going to face a lot more time than six months in jail. And the only reason he didn't take it, apparently, is because it required him to plead to a felony, which I guess you can understand. But the question is going to be, what is the exposure if the judge finds him guilty? So I'm interested to see how this one plays out. Frankly, I think it's. It's going to be interesting. Let's move on.
- [30:50]
James Leonard
You had a trial with that judge.
- [30:52]
Donna Rotuno
Oh, God.
- [30:52]
James Leonard
You had a trial with that judge?
- [30:54]
Donna Rotuno
I did. I just finished. Yes. Yes. I tried a case that began the very end of January and concluded in February. And I thought he was extremely fair. It was a sexual assault case, and it was a jury trial. The jury found my client not guilty, but the judge gave us a very fair trial. I thought he was very fair to both sides. He called balls and strikes. He did not insert himself in ways that sometimes judges do. So he. I had a very pleasurable experience, which you cannot Always say when you're not the hometown lawyer.
- [31:27]
James Leonard
Right. So it'll be interesting to see how this judge rules, but definitely something to follow up on, that's for sure.
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Donna Rotuno
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay, let's go on to Gotti's grandson. Carmine agnello is the 40 year old grandson of the late Gambino crime boss John Gotti. So what he is asking is that he wants the judge to grant him a lighter sentence because I believe it's his mother who, you know, his mother is in need of a organ transplant and he wants to be the donor. And in order to donate, he is asking that his time be cut down. So talk to me about that. What do you think?
- [32:11]
James Leonard
So first and foremost, I do know the mother, Victoria. I've had dinner with her. I've spoken with her on the phone. I know her brother, which is Carmine's uncle, John Jr. I've spent some time with him. And I know another, his aunt Angel. So I know those three. There's four Gotti children. I don't know the brother, Peter, but I know three of the four. They're great people, phenomenal people, all of them. First and foremost, I am aware of some health challenges that Victoria, his mother has. If he is an appropriate donor, I think that is something that is phenomenal. If he can do that to help his mother. The question is, should that translate into a reduction of a sentence or any sort of consideration from the court. As a criminal defense attorney, I certainly think that it should. I don't know that it will. I think that because of the reputation of the grand, his deceased grandfather, John Gotti, the media watching this case, I think a judge is probably going to be hard pressed to reduce a sentence based on that. I think that probably a better argument would be that this is a young man. I don't believe he has a criminal record. This was, you know, during COVID there was obviously monies here that were in dispute. Covid monies. He may have relied on accounting professionals. He may have relied on what confusion with regarding how those Covid funds were to be distributed. But I would argue that he should receive a lesser sentence than the federal sentencing guidelines probably call for because of his lack of criminal history. But I do think somebody that is going to give a kidney to a family member in distress, I think it shows his character and I think it should count for something. Will it? I don't know. I hope that it does. Knowing his mother, knowing his family, I think that this is a young man that probably needs to, you know, get Away from the legacy of the, the grandfather, if you will, and start his own. I do know that this young man's father has had some legal challenges. I don't, I think that his father, who he may have the same name as, quite frankly, has been to federal prison, has been charged in New York and I think moved to Ohio where he, I think he got into some other trouble. But at the end of the day, I'd like to see these young men chart their own course in life and do well. I know that their Uncle John Jr. Has done great since he's been out of the limelight, and so I'm rooting for him. I hope that it, I hope that it works. I don't know that it will, but I'm rooting for him.
- [35:21]
Donna Rotuno
You know, I have to agree with you. And, and you use the word character, right? It goes to his character. And I think that we see it in sentencing in every case we've ever done, right? You, any case that someone is getting sentenced or a case that you're playing, and you provide mitigation and you have to do sentencing memorandums, what do you do? You're there to say these are the things that they've done in their life that are different from these charges. Right? The charges are one part of who they are, but there's all these other things and ways that they have contributed and our to paint this full picture of who someone is. And I think that really this comes down to a character issue. And I know that there's this, this, you know, sort of thought, is this a slippery slope type of a situation where if you open this door, you're going to have other people trying to do this? I mean, I, I, I don't really think that in this type of a situation, that's what this is. And I, I do, I mean, you can't find a more quintessential Italian family story than the, you know, gangster's grandson wanting to give up a kidney for his it. So, I mean, it's, you know, as, as an Italian girl myself, I feel like I look at this story and I think, of course, any family member and any close family is going to do this. And so there, there is a part of me, and, and I, I agree, I, I don't really think it becomes a slippery slope. When I first saw the story, I thought, oh, God. And then I thought about it, and this is what we do. We advocate for character. And I think you can't find a more selfless situation than someone who says, I'm going to give up an organization.
- [36:52]
James Leonard
I agree. And the mother, when I tell you, is one of the most humble human beings that I've ever had the privilege of spending any time with. I absolutely adore his mother, Victoria. She's a phenomenal mother. She's done everything that she can with respect to her children. She's honored her mother who's living, who has the same name. Her mother's name is Victoria. She honors her father's legacy. She loves her father. I'm very sorry to see that her son is in this trouble. I hope that he gets the benefit of a fair and impartial sentencing that doesn't have anything to do with the reputation or legacy of the grandfather. I hope that a federal judge takes mercy on him and cuts that young man a break. I think he deserves it.
- [37:45]
Donna Rotuno
Yeah, he should definitely be judged for who he is and not for the legacy of his family. I would agree with you. Well, his sentencing is set for tomorrow, so we'll definitely pay attention to what happens there. James, I cannot thank you enough for joining me. This has been a fascinating conversation. I'd love to have you back sometime. Thank you for joining me on another episode of Crime and Justice. Remember, we want to hear from you. Send us your thoughts and questions on social media and don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:27]
Ryan Reynolds
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Mom Talk Cast Member
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