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- [00:02]
A
This is Crime and Justice. I'm Donna Rotuno. Back in the news, golf legend Tiger woods after a dramatic rollover accident and DUI arrest. Joining me today is Dave Aronberg, who was the state's attorney of Palm Beach county from 2013 to 2025.
- [00:25]
B
Donna, it's great to be with you.
- [00:27]
A
So, Dave, let's talk Tiger Woods. As a golf fan, as a sports fan, and as someone who is the same age as Tiger Woods, I grew up watching Tiger Woods. I followed his entire career, the good and the bad. And here we are again with another accident and another DUI arrest. And what's fascinating to me about having you on is you were very instrumental in his original 2017 DUI arrest and what happened as that case went through the system and what the ultimate resolution was. So I would love to chat with you first about, you know, that original arrest and kind of talk about the history of this and really the way prosecutors delve into cases like this and what goes into the, you know, the decisions in terms of how we decide that these are going to be resolved. So let's first talk about your involvement in kind of that first 201717 DUI arrest and how it ended the way it did.
- [01:30]
B
Well, Donna, back in 2017, I was the state attorney for Palm Beach County. It's the same thing as the da and so I ran the office. And the Tiger woods case came across my desk. And what was different about that case is that he submitted to the urinalysis. And so we had a list of the drugs that were in his system. And we also offered a first time DUI offender program, which is a diversion program, the only one of its kind in the country that was endorsed by Mothers Against Drunk Driving. And so we had this very tough, strong program, but it had a carrot at the end. If you accomplished all the things you had to do throughout the program, took responsibility for your actions, and. And you qualified for the program, which means first time DUI arrest. No crash, no children in the car or pets. We love pets. So he was eligible for it. He took responsibility. He went through the program, had to have his license suspended, had to go through classes, had to have random drug testing, all these hoops he had to jump through. And then you have to show up in person to plead guilty to the program, to the charges. And. And then once you complete the program, then you get a charge of reckless driving that with an adjudication withheld as opposed to a conviction for dui.
- [02:55]
A
And you know what, Dave? I think. And people, I think sometimes And I've had a lot of people ask me when I talk about this case, is he getting special treatment because he's a celebrity? And I say, well, no. First of all, the program that you talk about in 2017, I think in most jurisdictions, whether there's a specific program or not, first offenders are usually, especially if you haven't harmed anyone. I mean, he was on the side of the road sleeping in the car, wasn't even actually driving at the time. If you haven't harmed anyone, you haven't harmed yourself, you are eligible for, you know, certain diversion type programs. And, or prosecutors say, you know what, we will reduce the case to a reckless driving as long as you do treatment and you jump through the hoops of, of evaluations and things of that nature. So, you know, he did not get any special treatment in terms of this first DUI arrest. I think it was fairly standard for anyone who was arrested for dui. Would you agree with that?
- [03:54]
B
Absolutely. Anyone who qualifies for the program can go into the program. We've had thousands of people go through the program. Tiger woods wanted to enter into the program because he wanted the DUI to be wiped off and instead to have reckless driving. And as we've done for thousands of others with a very low recidivism rate, by the way, we allowed Tiger woods into the program. The only special request that he had was that he did not want to have to show up in person to plead guilty to reckless driving because he said his people said it was a security risk. He has so much media attention in Be a Circus. And he would like to submit the plea in writing, but we said, no, you have to do what everyone else has to do, circus or not, you have to show up. And he did.
- [04:44]
A
Yeah. And I think now, you know, obviously it's, it's pretty clear to everybody involved here, there's, there's a substance abuse issue happening. I mean, he, he, he looks like he's under the influence of something just by looking at his eyes. We all know about his history in terms of injuries. We know about the 2021 crash, which has resulted in dozens of surgeries. And we know that this is a person who wants to compete at a level that is so high. And in order for his body to do what he wants his body to do while he's in pain, it seems like he's taking prescription medication. And, and I don't think it's much of a leap when in the pocket of his pants or shorts, they found oxy. When he was arrested Just now, a couple of weeks ago. So in looking at this now, how is he going to be treated differently now that we've had another crash in between, which of course did not result in any type of a, a dui, but he was obviously taken to a hospital. He almost lost his leg. He was in dire condition. So. So I'm not so sure even if there was something in his system, anybody would have charged him in that moment. But now here we have a second arrest, albeit eight, what, nine years later, we're still looking at a second arrest. How is he going to be looked at differently when he goes to the Palm Beach County Courthouse and they're determining ways that this case can be handled this time around?
- [06:15]
B
Celebrity can help and it can hurt. It can help in that case, right? Well, if it ever goes to trial, Martin county, which is a very tough county for DUIs or any crimes, very conservative county, they will put people in jail for first time. DUI is there, the judge is there, which is unusual in Palm beach county, but in Martin county, they're tougher. At the same time, it's a very heavy golf community and lots of golfers and golf fans. So in that sense, it could perhaps help Tiger woods where it could hurt him. And is that the law enforcement officers on the scene, they knew who he was and they know his past. And so at some point they had to make a decision to transition the investigation from an accident investigation into a criminal investigation. Did Tiger woods past come into play or was it his behavior on that day? His defense lawyers will say there was not probable cause to make an arrest. He had just been in a rollover accident and that's why he was not in his right mind. Whereas the police officer said, no, we treat him like everyone else. So celebrity can giveth and celebrity can take it away.
- [07:26]
A
Yeah. And I think in looking at it, you know, and what I find interesting about this arrest versus the one back in 2017, clearly here, there was no chemical test. I mean, we know he blew.000, so alcohol is not an issue. So that's, that's, that can go to the probable cause issue that his lawyers may, may try to move forward on. But when we look at the fact that he refused a chemical test, there was no chemical test. He has the pills in his pocket. Everyone knows about his history of, you know, prescription pain medication. So the question now becomes, how likely do you think it is to get a conviction without a chemical test to be able to prove whether or not he actually had anything in his system? I mean, Obviously, there's an accident, but we know that an accident doesn't mean that someone's impaired. And so h. How do you think in terms of. We can all think whatever we think we can talk about. He needs help. He's obviously taking himself into treatment. But how does that translate into a courtroom when we're talking about a beyond a reasonable doubt standard and what it looks like in terms of an actual prosecution without any true evidence about chemicals in his blood?
- [08:36]
B
Donna, I have thought from the beginning of this case that it would be an uphill climb for prosecutors because he blew a 0.00 on the breathalyzer. He did not submit to your analysis. So all you have is a subjective opinion of the law enforcement officers on the scene. And as I said earlier, the defense lawyers will say, you knew about his past. You should never have transitioned the investigation into a criminal one because you didn't have probable cause. You didn't have any reasonable suspicion other than he been in a bad accident and was disoriented. But of course, the disorientation can be a result of the bad accident. So that's going to be the argument from the defense. But I actually think that that steep hill that the prosecutors have to climb has been leveled out. I think it's much less steep now because of the body cam footage. I think that it's a toss up. Now. I still think it's not an easy one for prosecutors for the reasons I've mentioned. But because they have that body cam, it's now up to the jury to look at it and to make their own determination to see whether they think Tiger woods was impaired. And the fact that he had two hydrocodone pills in his pocket will cause some jurors to think, yeah, he was using drugs. On the other hand, the drugs were in his pocket, not his stomach. We don't know what was in his stomach. And so I think defense lawyers have a legitimate claim here, a legitimate defense. And it's too early to say which way it's going to go, but because you have to prove these cases beyond a reasonable doubt, I'd still say advantage to the defense.
- [10:10]
A
Yeah, I agree with you. And I agree. Watching the body cameras and what I've been telling everyone who asks me this question about the way law enforcement acted is law enforcement acted in good faith. They acted based on different cues that they saw during the period of time. Does that translate to beyond a reasonable doubt? Maybe not.
- [10:30]
B
Just keep you down here with us, please. Yeah, I was just talking to the
- [10:33]
A
president, which If I'm a prosecutor, I'm arguing consciousness of guilt. What other reason do you have to call somebody who has authority other than to say, oh, I may have gotten myself in some trouble? You know, usually if you get in a car accident, you're not calling the President of the United States. So I, I think if I'm the prosecutor, I'm making those arguments, and I'm saying, look, the master's was coming. He would have done anything to compete at that level. He's taking whatever he needs to take, you know, So I, I think that the narrative is there, but the question is, does that rise to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt? And I, I agree with you that the body camera makes it a little bit more level. But as one of my favorite judges in Chicago always used to say, a shout out to Judge Claps was ty goes to the defense.
- [11:19]
B
Absolutely.
- [11:20]
A
I think.
- [11:21]
B
Yeah. And, Donna, I think the body camera footage of Tiger woods casually mentioning that he was on the phone with the President will hurt him, even in very red Martin county. Because no one, Right, no one on the jury wants to think that someone's getting special privileges, special treatment. And if you do have a few Democrats or Trump haters on the jury, they have such a strong reaction against Trump that that could bias them. And I know that in jury selection, they're gonna try to weed out anyone who has such strong feelings. But we're so polarized today that I think that could only help him. The Trump supporters there, I don't think, are to give him a plus because he was on the phone with the President. I think they'll be like, let him deal with real important stuff, not your personal dui. So I don't think that helps him. I was having lunch today with a friend in law enforcement, and he said that, oh, Tiger knew that the camera's on him. That's why he said what he said. I was like, no, the opposite. First off, if you've just been an accident on the phone with a president, got so much in your mind, you don't. The cop is not there with the cell phone camera. It's a little tiny thing on his chest protector. It's a body camera. You're not thinking that. I think that Tiger woods will regret that he said that. And maybe they'll try to get it suppressed because it's irrelevant to the case. Maybe the defense will try to suppress it.
- [12:43]
A
That was going to be my next question to you is, do you think that they'll try to suppress that phone call? Because I agree. I think it works against him no matter who the jurors are. I think it puts him in this, you know, sort of privileged situation. But then again, there's also the flip side of it where you say, you know, can you ever get a fair jury? Because most jurors do not know every defendant's history when they walk into a courtroom. But for all of us, you know, this is something that's been splattered all over the news for the last decade. And so the question becomes, how can it ever be fair to begin with? And even a change of venue doesn't change that, because everyone knows who Tiger woods is. Everyone has heard these stories, and everyone knows about his history with the law.
- [13:25]
B
Yeah, you change venue is going to go to another community that has watched the same videos who knows who Tiger woods is. So I don't think that changes things. Yeah, I think the defense could try to suppress it, but it's hard to keep it out because it's gonna be part of the defense where at some point they're gonna say, look, he was compliant, he was polite, he was cooperative. And that's where the prosecution says, you just opened the door. Yeah, he was bragging about being on the phone with the president. So I could see that opening the door. And that limits the defense from arguing, which is. Which is true, that here's this big celebrity and he did a. He complied. He was actually very nice to the police where he didn't try to big time anyone. So I actually think that maybe that's the biggest problem with his name dropping of the president because it now will probably prevent him from leaning into the fact that he was sort of humble. He was compliant and friendly.
- [14:21]
A
He was. And actually, I mean, just if you're looking at it from the way you would defend and or prosecute a dui, you watch him. He's talking. Clearly, he's walking normally. As he's walking up to the police officer, he's not really stumbling. I mean, he doesn't have overt signs of impairment. I think the first time you really see it is when he's sitting in the back of that squad car, which, you know, I argue those cameras are a little distorted. They're at weird angles. They're looking at you. You know, you're back there, it's usually freezing cold. Right. Like, there's all of these other things that could potentially account for, you know, that sort of. Just because somebody's hiccuping doesn't mean that they, you know, that they have a bunch of pain pills in their system. So, you know, I definitely think there's ways to defend that. It just doesn't look great. It looks like somebody who's. But he was, he was polite. He answered the questions. He, he didn't come out and say, you know, I'm Tiger Woods. He just sort of threw in the president. And I agree with you 100%. He totally forgot about those body cameras.
- [15:23]
B
Oh, yeah, people do. I, when I talk to police, I forget that they're rolling. You know, it just, it's human nature. Unless you putting something in face. I'm not thinking how many times you walk to your car in a parking lot thinking, wow, all those cameras and the lights above are. Watch me. You never think about that. And so I, I do think, by the way, that's why people commit so many crimes in public, because they're not thinking that they're being recorded in everything they do. So why would Tiger woods be anything?
- [15:46]
A
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I, I agree. And I think that at the end of the day, that's going to be something that's, you know, more embarrassing for him. And what I found interesting was those cameras were released so quickly, but in New York, for Justin Timberlake, they waited forever to release those, and he fought the release of those. And so it's interesting to me that by jurisdiction, the way things like that are released, what are the policies and does Florida have any in terms of what they release to the public? Because if it were you or I, that's not getting released to the public. So tell me how that works and explain to our viewers why that would happen in a way that's potentially different than other places.
- [16:28]
B
Florida is the Sunshine State. And sunshine also means open to the free. Yeah, Land of the free and open access to public documents. Florida has one of the best open records laws that's been curtailed in recent years by some of the governors we've had. But overall, we still have broad open records laws. You'll see cameras in the courtrooms, you'll see body cameras released to the public quickly. And so, Donna, I think if it were you, yes, there would be requests, as a Fox host, you would. There'd be lots of requests to get your body camera. Me, maybe not so much. You know, I don't think being a former state attorney would get on a lot of radars, but you never know.
- [17:04]
A
You know, I'm not so sure. Yeah, the people in the office that maybe didn't like their boss may be the ones that are sitting.
- [17:15]
B
You know what? It's Actually a good point.
- [17:16]
A
I'm sure that was very few. I'm sure those are very few.
- [17:19]
B
But you're right, the thing that people hate the most in the public is hypocrisy. That's the thing. They don't want. They don't want to see someone get special treatment and they don't want to see hypocrites. So if a former state attorney who's tough on crime gets a dui. Yeah, that would be news. Yeah, definitely.
- [17:35]
A
Yeah. Could Tiger have tried to block the release of those or would that have been a futile effort in Florida?
- [17:42]
B
Feudal effort. And it just now eventually just create more interest in the recordings. It's, it's sort of like the Epstein files. Like if you try to suppress it, it's going to get more people interested in waiting with bated breath for its release. Same thing here.
- [18:01]
A
How do you think the fact that he obviously sought to leave the jurisdiction, go get treatment out of the country, how do you think that's going to play out in terms of the way this case is potentially resolved?
- [18:12]
B
I don't think it matters. I know people are surprised he was allowed to leave the country, but let's put it in perspective. He's being charged with a misdemeanor and it's a first time dui. Now it's not his first charge, but it would be his first conviction. It's not like he's being charged with murder. He can leave the country. He's not a flight risk. Yes. I want to see if Tiger woods move to a non extraditable country. Maybe he'll move to Vietnam so he can avoid being prosecuted in Martin county for DUI for a misdemeanor. So yeah, and the reason why he wants to go overseas is because that's what athletes do, Donna. You know, they get these special like stuff, stem cell treatments they can't get here. And he probably has all these doctors and clinics he goes to where they have all this innovative, risky medicine that they can't do here in this country and it works for him.
- [18:57]
A
Well, unless press standing outside the door too.
- [19:00]
B
Oh, and there's that. And there's that. Right. You don't have to worry in the village he's going to in Europe probably doesn't have the same type of media as Manhattan. So yeah, good. Good call.
- [19:11]
A
So let me ask you this now that the first DUI resulted in really a, you know, diversion program and it was not a DUI conviction on his record. How does that affect sentencing and what he's eligible for? And, and I think, you know, I don't think he will plead to the DUI charge, but there's the charge of refusal to submit to the chemical test or urine test. So explain to me how that's different in Florida than other places because you have a specific crime charged for that. That refusal. Correct?
- [19:45]
B
Right, right. And if he is sentenced for the dui, it'll still be sentenced as a first time dui. Now, the judge will take it into consideration that he has had prior incidents and can levy the sanction based on the totality of the circumstances here, this whole background and record. But as far as officially, he will be a first time DUI offender. Like convicted. If he's convicted. Now, the other charge is a lesser charge. It's a second degree misdemeanor punishable by up to 60 days in jail, which is the refusal to submit to your analysis. That's a new law that was passed last year in Florida where it's no longer just a license suspension. If you refuse, it is a crime. It is a low level crime. The only real defense he has to that is to just say that there was no probable cause to make the arrest. And when he refused to submit to the urinalysis, it was after the arrest. So if there was no probable cause to make the arrest, everything that happened after that is what you call fruit from the poisonous tree. You learned that in law school, right? Everything else can be suppressed. That's their argument. I don't know if it worked, but it's worth a shot. Even if he's found guilty of that very low level misdemeanor, I don't think you serve any jail time for that.
- [21:09]
A
Yeah, I agree. And I think that. And now if he were to get a subsequent dui, if my reading of the law is correct, that becomes a more serious crime if he were to refuse to take a chemical test again. Is that correct?
- [21:25]
B
I don't know. If this second time you refuse is a higher level misdemeanor, maybe it's a new law, so I'd have to look to see if it's upgraded to a first degree misdemeanor, but also your potential sanctions.
- [21:35]
A
I think that's what I read.
- [21:37]
B
Okay. Yeah. Well, also your potential sanctions will be greater for a second time DUI conviction if you are, and then if you get a third one, it's a felony. And so then we're talking. But I suspect after this there'll be a lot of pressure on Tiger to get a driver.
- [21:55]
A
Yeah, that was going to be my next question. Too. The other question that I continue to receive from people is, a, you know, why doesn't they have a driver? But B, what happens to his license? Now, I know that a refusal in most states means that your license is suspended. How does.
- [22:10]
B
What.
- [22:10]
A
What happens in Florida?
- [22:13]
B
Well, in Florida, you do have an automatic license suspension, but you can get a hardship license. So you can be suspended for 12 months. But you. You apply for what's called a hardship license to allow you to drive to work, to other essential gatherings, and you. You really do get your license back. That's why so many people who refuse to blow will still be able to drive around. But you have to seek it administratively within a certain period of time, and we'll see if that happens, because that could hurt your case. If you're claiming innocence, the fact that you're trying to apply for a hardship license can be used against you. So there's. It's tricky. It's like a little game they're going to play to try to have it both ways, where he professes his innocence while at the same time at least can try to get some sort of hardship license in case he wants to drive again. Or maybe then this will be used by his family and friends to say, enough, please do not drive. You're putting yourself and others at risk, and let's get you help. He's already taken some responsibility, saying he's going to step away from golf and is going to seek treatment, and that's a good thing. But I think that until he's fully sober and is not using any prescription medications that could impair his driving, he shouldn't be driving.
- [23:29]
A
Yeah, I agree. And I think that not, not only is it time to get a driver, but I think by showing the court, you know, not applying for a hardship license, saying I shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car, I think all of those things probably help in terms of the way this case is resolved. I mean, if he puts up a big fight about a license, my gu is they're going to think maybe you haven't learned your lesson here. I mean, most people don't roll over more than one car in their life. And now here we are watching this happen twice. And then there's another car accident that had happened before his original DUI arrest in 2017.
- [24:01]
B
Yeah, Tiger was a type A personality. I saw him once in person when he showed up in court to plead guilty to reckless driving back in 2017, and you can just see in his eyes why he's so successful. He's a killer. I mean, he is someone you don't want to face on, on the golf course or in any sporting event because he's extremely competitive and he'll take you down. And when he's driving, apparently he has that same type A personality. But I don't know whether he was impaired that day. I just saw the video and we saw the pills in his pocket, and he admitted to taking medication that morning. Was he legally impaired when he had that rollover accident, or was he distracted on his phone and. And a type A personality in speeding and that's why he was disoriented afterwards, because he had a rollover accident? I don't know. It's up to the jury to decide. But the burden for prosecutors is not, is it more likely than not? It's beyond a reasonable doubt. And the fact that he was interviewed on camera after a rollover accident and the fact that he had trouble doing the sobriety test after a rollover accident and after 30 plus surgeries play into his favor.
- [25:14]
A
I agree. And let me ask you this. In terms of, you know, this case came across your desk now for the second time, is this the way you would have charged it? And if, if so, how would you resolve it? And if not, how would you resolve it?
- [25:29]
B
Well, by the time it would come across my desk, he would have already been arrested. He would have been charged by police. It's up to the prosecutors to make the final charging decision. And based on the body cam, you could, you could charge him with DUI and failure to provide your analysis based on all the evidence you can provide that you'd have a good faith reason to charge, because as a prosecutor, your burden is much higher. You don't have to prove cases by probable cause. Probable cause is a low level. Probable cause is what police need. You have to prove cases beyond a reasonable doubt. That's much higher. And so if you don't think in good faith you can get a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, then you pursue the case. You can even say, as we did many times, which is police, you're right, there was probable cause to make an arrest. But proving a case to a unanimous jury beyond a reasonable doubt, no way. We're not filing the charges. So I do expect the Martin county prosecutor's office to file the charges. And this, this will be a case that may even go to trial without a settlement in advance.
- [26:34]
A
And do you think that, you know, and I agree with you, what, what do you think will go into that decision about whether or not he says, hey, I'M going to try to work this out, or I am going to decide to go to trial. I think that the key issues here are the fact that, you know, if he files a motion to. To quash the arrest, saying that there was no probable cause, then obviously that solves the problem. But if he does that, does that change what potential plea offer they may make?
- [27:01]
B
Well, the best plea offers generally are at the beginning. They want you to take responsibility early on, avoid the hassle of a pretrial investigation and then a trial. So the later you wait, the harsher the sentence the deal will be by the state. On the other hand, if you can poke holes in the state's case, then the state may then relent to say, okay, let's cut a deal. So you gotta bet on yourself and your lawyers, or else you can be in a lot of trouble.
- [27:28]
A
If he goes to trial and loses, what's the penalty?
- [27:31]
B
If he goes to trial and loses, I think that the court could actually give him jail time. This is Martin County. I would say that wouldn't be true in other places, but Martin County, I'd say there's 50, 50 chance that he can get some jail time. It wouldn't be the year in jail that he'd be eligible for. That's the maximum. But I think he could get 30 days in jail by a judge in Martin County. That's what he's gonna have to be worried about. So if you're Tiger woods, you would only go to trial if you really believed that you could get a hung jury or an acquittal?
- [28:02]
A
Yeah, I, I agree with that. And I, you know, that's a. It's a big risk to take for someone like him. I don't think he probably wants to spend 30 minutes there, much less, you know, 30 days or whatever he could potentially get. So that's obviously going to go into his decision making in terms of what he decides to do here. Obviously, we want the best for Tiger. We want him to get healthy. We want him to be safe. We'd love to see him play golf again. Dave, I cannot thank you enough for your time, your expertise, and all your experience in Florida. Thank you so much for joining me today.
- [28:33]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [28:34]
A
Donna, thank you for joining me for another episode of Crime and Justice. Remember, we want to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, questions or theories, and we will answer them on air. Don't forget to subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.