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You have one new message
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translating. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers is now available on Disney.
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You could say that again.
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Critics are calling it Pixar's funniest movie ever and a wildly entertaining ride. Blizzard Potato. It's certified fresh and verified hot.
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Now we party.
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This is incredible.
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Wow. I am clearing the rest of the day.
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Disney and Pixar's Hoppers now available on Disney. Rated pg. This is crime and justice. I'm Donna Rotuno. The Karen Reid story has exploded from a criminal case into a full blown civil war. Today I'm joined by Boston's own Howie Carr, host of the Howie Carr Show. Howie, thank you so much for joining me today.
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A
Thanks for having me, Donna.
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B
So, Howie, let's talk about where we are in the latest in the Karen Reed case. This is a case that has been taking up the airwaves for a long time. I know you have been following it since the very beginning. You've been a great source of information on the case. Tell me where we are. Bring us up to speed on where we are today.
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A
Well, it's beyond just Karen Reed. It's, it's kind of metastasized into just a, a lot of cases. But with Karen Reid right now, there's, there's four separate civil cases that are pending that are really very slowly percolating their way through the civil justice system. And she's being sued by the family of her boyfriend, her late boyfriend, John o'. Keefe, and she's also being sued by what are called the house defendants, the, the people who were in the house when John o' Keefe, on the night he died. And then there's also one, one pending criminal case for witness intimidation, which I don't think is going to go very far. And it's, it'll probably be dismissed when a new district attorney comes in. But now the case has, has gone beyond that because they've gotten all these text messages of this crooked fired state police officer who, who was involved in the investigation, Michael Proctor. And they were the, the FBI when they got involved in the case. They, they got all of his cell phone communications and he, he and a Canton police officer and various others have been, were engaged in the, the, the most vile type of chats and text messages, et cetera, et cetera, defaming every, every kind of ethnic, racial, religious, gender groups imaginable. And now this guy Proctor was the lead investigator for the district attorney in Norfolk county, south of Boston. And so he was involved in other capital cases. So now the, the Defense lawyers for, for people, some of whom have been convicted of murder, others of others are facing trial and they're, they're about to release more text messages, more vile text messages. As a matter of fact, I spoke to a lawyer today. She told me that she thinks that they're going to, she's going to release about 30 pages of more of these vile texts that are going to just make the state police and various other local cop outfits look even worse in the next day or so. And so this is, this is just sort of cascading as, as it goes on. And I and Karen reads one of her lawyers, not, not Alan Jackson, but one of the local guys told me he doesn't think this case is the first case, is not even civil case, is going to go to go to trial anytime before a year and a half from now, which probably means more like two, two and a half years. So this is going to go on.
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B
Sure.
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A
For indefinitely. DONNA?
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B
Well, it's, it's interesting and just for our viewers and our listeners to understand. Karen Reed had two criminal cases in court. She was eventually found not guilty in the last criminal case. And now, like you said, she's being sued civilly, which is a different standard under the law by John Wrongful death.
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A
She's suing as well.
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B
Yes, correct.
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A
I should say, I should point that out. Yes, she's suing, she's suing the Mass. State police and the town of Canton, which is where the police were involved in this, in investigating this, this, this crime.
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B
And correct me if I'm wrong, she's suing for lack of training for the way that they handled this investigation. It goes beyond just the case against John itself. It's a, it's a much broader view of what was actually going on at those police departments, state and the local police department. Is that correct?
- [05:09]
A
Right. Yeah. Well, her life was, was basically destroyed. She was a successful career woman. She had a job at Fidelity Investments, a high ranking job. She was an adjunct professor at a local business school. She was single, but she owned her own own single family house in the suburbs. She had a nice car, she had a good career going. Everything has been destroyed for her. She, she, she can't basically get her old job back. She lives at home with her parents. At age 45, she doesn't drive any longer. I mean, her life is a shambles because of this frame up is what it was. And you know, Donna, one thing, and I think if you talk to Alan Jackson, her lawyer, he agrees she was acquitted at the first trial the judge just refused to accept the unanimous verdict of the jury that she was not guilty of murder. So she's one of the very few people that's actually suffered double jeopardy. She was acquitted at two separate murder trials. You know, you read about it in law school books, obviously, double jeopardy. But how often do you see an actual case of it in US Jurisprudence?
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B
Remind us what happened in that first verdict, because I know after the second trial took place, a lot of people kind of either forgot about that first trial or they really never paid attention to it until the second one. So remind us how that all went down, because I think that's interesting for people to understand what actually took place there.
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A
Well, first of all, the. The judge was just this. This just connected, you know, Norfolk county hack, basically, career, second generation, career. So she was, she was tight with the powers that be in Norfolk County. And so she made all these rulings. She wouldn't let Alan Jackson basically conduct a proper direct or cross examination, nor David Yannetti or any of the lawyers. And so then the first trial, it comes down and she hands out the jury slip. And so Yannetti and Jackson and Gary Reed are looking at the jury slip. There's nowhere to mark a not guilty on the jury slip. And so they're complaining. And she says, the judge, Beverly Canoni, says to Yannetti, isn't this the way we do things in Norfolk County? And Yannetti says, no, this is not. I've never seen this before. There's no way to vote not guilty. So they adjust the jury slip, and there's three separate charges, I guess there's second degree murder, there's manslaughter, and then there's leaving something like, you know, motor vehicle, you know, negligence or something like that accident. And so, yeah, so, so they, they vote. They vote not guilty on the murder charge, not guilty. But they, they. They have a hung hung jury on a couple of the. The lesser charges. Like, it was eight to four. I forget which way it was. But again, she got a not guilty on the murder charge. And so Beverly can own. Doesn't say, okay, not guilty on the capital charge, and then throw. And then we'll have to have a retrial. And she just throws out everything. It was, it was outrageous, I think.
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B
Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, obviously, and we've seen this happen in multiple trials in our history where you can be found not guilty of certain counts, and if they are hung on others, then of course you have a right to be retried on those counts so that the double jeopardy phrase there isn't truly accurate. But I understand your point. And you know, could they have retried her? They could, they did. She was found not guilty, which I think was the right decision based on the evidence and the way the case played out. But what I really want to talk about is this idea of not only the wrongful death lawsuit that's John's family suing Karen Reed, but I also want to talk about the lawsuit that Karen Reed has filed. And first, let's talk about the, the lawsuit John's family filed. Because as we know, in a wrongful death lawsuit, the standard of proof in that court civilly is much different than the standard of proof in criminal court. And we also know that as part of these civil depositions, you lose your right to your fifth Amendment, you know, ability to keep yourself from self incrimination. And so I'm wondering if Karen Reed now having to sit for depositions opens up the door here to some things that maybe she has not had to answer to in the past. What do you think about that?
- [10:02]
A
I mean, I, I think, you know, she could, she could be embarrassed by, you know, they could ask her about these text messages that she had back and forth with this, this obese ATF agent Brian Higgins. And you know, that, that might embarrass her. But I think as far as, as any kind of, you know, jeopardy of whether or not she struck him, I just don't think it's possible. I think, Donna, that they, you know, when the FBI stepped into this case because of the, the out. The outrageous nature of the, of the charges by the local prosecutor, they, they brought in the, the, the top forensic accident reconstruction experts in the country. I mean, guys that are, that are the, at the top of their field. And they, they all, they agreed and this was, the jury was never by the way, told that these, these people were, were brought in by the Feds. They were, they were just told it was brought. They, the, the, the first jury later on said that they thought that these, these experts that were on the stand were paid for by Karen Reed, which was not true. But they agreed that John o', Keefe, the victim, could not have possibly been struck by an automobile, any automobile. And so I wonder, what is her liability then? If she didn't strike him with her suv, what is her real liability? I understand that the o' Keeffe family is also suing the bars. The, you know how it works. The Dram shop law.
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B
Yeah, the Dram shop, Yep.
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A
Yeah. So we, we all get that. But how do they, how do they sue her? I don't know how far they get with her. Whereas I think, you know, it's, it's going to be a very interesting deposition for Michael Proctor. He's as, as. I don't know how much the listeners know, but he's the, he's.
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B
Oh, no, I know.
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A
Yeah, he's the corrupt state police officer who's now have. Going to have a whole new bunch of his, of his text messages released. He blew off Alan Jackson on the first deposition. It was scheduled. It was going to be a big deal and everybody was waiting for it in Boston. There were going to be 15 lawyers there, apparently. And he just said at the last minute, he said, I can't make it, I can't make it. And the judge said, I want to see some reasons for this. And the reasons were not sufficient. And he ordered him to come back. And next week is going to be when his deposition is taken. I assume Alan Jackson will be flying back in from, from LA for that.
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B
That'll be a, definitely be an interesting deposition. And, you know, I, I struggle sometimes with these cases where so much emphasis, of course, and, and rightfully so, is put on the horrible investigation and the behavior and actions of the investigators, police officers, detectives, because, you know, and on the local level, it was the, was it the sergeant that has now stepped down and resigned from his job. So, I mean, you definitely have an, an unbelievable amount of corruption here, which to me, and, you know, I said it when we were talking about the appeal on Murdaugh and, you know, I thought Alec Murdaugh should get a new trial. I thought what happened with that court clerk was awful. And I thought that the issue was bigger than Alex Murdaugh. And I continue to feel that way. We can't allow the system to do things to an individual that, that are just absolutely egregious, regardless of the strength of the, of the evidence. And I feel that way here as well with Karen Reed. I mean, you have these, these investigators and these officers that we now see with our own eyes. And we have seen bits and pieces as time, time has gone on. And now we're going to see more as you're saying that things are going to be released. And I'm looking at this and I'm saying, okay, you know, she absolutely should not be the victim of that awful police work. But then there's the flip side, and I think that there's some people out there and I know, you know, you've been a Karen Reid supporter. I've been a Karen Reid supporter. But there are people out there who are not Karen Reid supporters. And they say, and fairly so, they say, well, why should that work overshadow what may have happened to John and his family, and why shouldn't that matter, too? And, you know, I think it's a, It's a tough balancing act. But at the end of the day, when you're the one who could be going to prison, you know, I think Ty goes to the defense.
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A
Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, the government has to prove you're guilty. You don't have to prove you're not guilty. But the fact is, Donna, I don't think she did it. I mean, if you go back and you look at the evidence, I mean, we all have either been in car accidents or been hit by a car or know someone who's been hit by a car. He suffered no broken bones. He was hit by.
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B
So on that front, yeah, you're right, I agree with you. So let's go back to that. January 29, 2022, night or early morning, what do you think happened at 34 Fairview Road?
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A
I will just cite the argument of Karen Reed and her, her lawyers. She, she and her lawyers think they've, they've said this publicly in the complaint that they think that he went into the house and there was some kind of altercation that all been drinking heavily. And there were some, there were some cops there, there were some family members. They went downstairs and perhaps he, he. Perhaps he was just pushed or shoved. There was, There was a lot of free weights. It was a workout area in the basement. And that somehow the back of his head, that's where the axe. The injuries were suffered. He hit the back of his head and who knows if he was dead or not. Again, I'm going. This is what they're saying. And then there was also a vicious dog in the house, German shepherd that had a record of biting humans and other dogs. And the dog, the theory is, bit him on the arm and at some point he either perished or they, they didn't want to call the cops for whatever reason. 9, 1 1. So they just put him out outside. And it was a snowstorm was. Was going on. And he was put out there hours later because there was a, A snowplow driver that night who was a very crazy, credible witness later on. And, and of course, the cops never bothered to interview him until reporters interviewed and.
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B
Yeah, and he said that there was no body outside or he didn't see one, at least at the time.
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A
Oh, there was no body out there, but there was a car stationed to. To make sure that nothing. And, you know, obviously during a snowstorm, you're, You're. You know, the. All towns and cities say you have to remove your car from the. From the roadway so it can be plowed. And they had a. They had a car out there, and he never reported it because he knew there were cops there. And they were all his, you know, his buddies. They were all townies together. But it's. I mean, I don't. I don't. I don't know what happened. And, you know, the thing is they. They had no interest in finding it. The texts that have already come out indicate that they just decided to. As Alan Jackson put it repeatedly during the trial, both trials, they decided to pin it on the girl. Pin it on the girl. She was not a cop and she was not a townie like all the rest of them. And so they decided that she was a convenient patsy, a fall girl. Cheers to America's 250th birthday. Get 20% off your first purchase at foxnewswineshop.com with code FNRADIO20. 20% discount excludes wine club offers and cannot be combined with any other promotion. Expires July 31, 2026. Must be 21 or older to order. Please drink responsibly.
- [18:16]
B
You know, if that's really, really the case, and let's say Karen Reed was framed. That, you know, I've said all along I don't think there was enough evidence to convict her, and I. I maintain that. So let's say she was framed. Why do you think John's family is convinced otherwise? They.
- [18:32]
A
I don't think they ever really liked Karen Reed that much, you know. You know, one of the. One of the relatives.
- [18:40]
B
Yeah, but not liking. But not liking your son's girlfriend, you know, doesn't mean that you then have to believe that she murdered him either. So. I mean, I don't know. I'm just. I'm. And again, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm just curious.
- [18:52]
A
Maybe liking is the wrong word. They. They obviously detested her. Her. They. At least John o' Keeffe's mother detested her. Yeah, I don't. I'm not sure the father. He wasn't. He didn't seem as. As invested in. In despising Karen Reed as. As the mother was. And the brother had his own problems, and Karen Reed had helped him out in the past. And you know, the old saying Nana. No good deed goes unpunished. And I think that may have been something that, you know, this guy Apollo Keefe's problem with Karen Reid.
- [19:32]
B
Where are all the kind of key players from that house on that night? Where. Where are they now? Do we know? I mean, the. The. What was it The. The wife that was googling how long it takes for a body to freeze outside, you know? Yes.
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A
Yeah. The woman who lied to the FBI when she was first approached by them repeatedly. Yeah. A crime which is, by the way, a crime to lie to federal agents, as you well know. But yes, it is.
- [19:59]
B
Yes.
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A
That just. They're. They're. They're kind of like fading away. They. They've moved. The. The house. The actual house. 34 Fairview Road has been sold. The dog has disappeared. Hasn't been seen since the night of the. Of the death. The. The. The cop who owned it, Brian Albert has. He has retired from the Boston Police Department and now is a private investigator. And he has offices in the same building in Brockton as Jen McCabe's lawyer. She's the woman who texted you know, how long to die in cold at 2:27. And Chris Albert, who. Who served six months in prison for. For manslaughter after. After the. After a auto accident. He was a selectman in. In. In Canton at the time. He is. He has not run for reelection because he was going to lose. Another one of their selectmen was defeated for re election. Kevin Albert, who was the. Another brother. He was on the Canton Police Department. He was suspended for a while for getting drunk on duty and losing his badge and gun with Michael Proctor, the corrupt state police officer who's sent fire. And it's. It just goes on and on like. Like that. The. The police chief at the time they has died. He was replaced by someone who then got into a mysterious auto accident at dusk in a neighboring town. She has now retired and they brought in an outsider to. To try to clean up the mess in the Canton Police Department. The ATF agent who was there that night, who, Who Karen Reed was texting with. I hope I'm not. I. If people don't know, they. They're probably lost if they. If they haven't been following the case.
- [22:00]
B
No, no, no. I think everybody that's paying attention to this has been following it and you know, there's been so many documentaries and conversations about this that, you know, I. I never want to take our time and sort of resuscitate what happened because I think people mostly know. So I think this is Great to just remind people of certain aspects and, you know, what's basically happening now.
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A
Brian Higgins, the, the ATF agent, he's not, he, he is. No one's, he seems to have taken off some weight, but no one seems to have seen him go into work as an, as an Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent for the federal government recently.
- [22:36]
B
So ever since now, Karen Reed has filed this lawsuit against the police entities and people involved in this case, and she has given some interviews or a very specific interview on a, a network in the morning. And talk to me about what your thoughts were on that interview, because I, my personal feeling was, and if I was representing her, I'm not so sure I would have advised her to do that interview. I, I don't think it was that great for her. So tell me what your thoughts are on that interview she did.
- [23:10]
A
No, I, I, I think, I think she wanted to kind of put the heat on, on Michael Proctor because he was supposed to be, you know, giving his deposition imminently, and they had just released all the, all the text, the first batch of text messages that were going to make him look like a complete horrible person. So I, I think that was it. Yeah, you're right. I mean, the, there was, there was nothing. The Today show people didn't seem terribly well prepared to be asking the questions. And I don't know. I think Karen is in a tough spot. You know, with all these lawsuits pending and the criminal charge, no matter how frivolous it might be, she can't really say much. You know, I mean, she and Alan Jackson have supposedly sold their story to a Hollywood producer, but what can they really do with all these lawsuits hanging over their heads? She can't really write a book again. Everything could be used against her. One of her former supporters or someone taped a phone call that she made. So I think she's very leery of talking to anybody except the people very close to her, and she's in a difficult position. And again, you know, she kept, she said when I talked to her on my show after the trial, I mean, she said it was like having a giant weight lifted off her when she was finally acquitted the second time. But, you know, it's not like it's over. It's like she's still in this kind of limbo or purgatory. She can't go back to her old life. Her old life is over, and she can't build a new one. She can't make any money by selling her story. I mean, or successfully selling her story. She can, you Know, I guess get a, you know, a, you know, a down payment or advance. But, you know, she's not. She's. She's living with her parents, and she loves her parents. But, you know, do you really want to be 45 years old and go from being a successful, independent woman to living with your parents? I don't think so.
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B
No, of course not. And I. I think what I thought interesting from the interview, and I think a lot of the audience also thought it because I read a lot of the comments online after the fact was that not much was said during the interview at all about punishing the people who actually did this or finding who actually did this. I mean, you know, here we are in a position where we have two juries that could not convict her. We have corrupt police, and there's really been not a lot of commentary about trying to figure out what truly did happen there. And I think that, you know, when. When she came out on the courtroom steps after trial number two and said, nobody has fought harder for John than me, I mean, I thought that was a little bit offensive, frankly. I was like, you are not the person to be saying this right now while his family still doesn't have answers on their dead son. But I did think it was interesting that there wasn't really any commentary about that. And, you know, we have heard her speak a little bit, and that's not something that. That she has raised. What do you say about that?
- [26:32]
A
Well, for. For one thing, it's. It's not on her to. To conduct this investigation. I mean, the. She. She got all from. It's. It's. It's a long story, but she got all the, all the carpet from the, The. The basement of the house. 34 Fairview Road. And I mean, I think she. I think they would have liked to have tested that to see what kind of blood or DNA was on that. On that carpet. But, you know, do you know how expensive it is to do that kind of thing? And they. And this was like, you know, oh, I do. Square feet, cubic feet. I mean, her legal bills were in the millions of dollars. Just trying to, to, you know, keep her freedom or regain her freedom. I mean, I, I don't think this is on.
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B
No Doubt.
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A
And, and, you know, it's tough.
- [27:21]
B
I'm not, I'm not. My question. Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. My, My question did not at all claim that she should be the one doing the investigation, but she also could be calling out for these, These police jurisdictions and saying, look, you've had these Corrupt police. You fired police on the state level. You, you've had police resign on the local level. Let's put a new department together. And how about somebody take the initiative here to try to figure out what happened in that house? There's carpeting they can test. I mean, if I'm her, I'm going out there and I'm making these claims and I'm saying, look, just as you said, Howie, it's not on, not on me, Karen Reed to do that. But where is law enforcement? Law enforcement should be trying to figure this out. And I just, I, I think that's something that, if we heard from her, I would think that it would seem more authentic. As somebody who comes out on the courtroom steps and says nobody's fought harder for John than me. When, you know, now she's going out on this media tour about her civil case. I just think that is something that I'd like to hear.
- [28:23]
A
Well, it's not really a media tour. I mean, she's, she's not, she's not going on everywhere. I mean, she could, you know, she's done like two or three, two or three interviews. That's, that's it in a year. I mean, that's, that's not a huge.
- [28:36]
B
Well, as you said, there's lawsuits pending. I mean, I mean, you're selling your story right to Hollywood. You're eventually going to, to, to capitalize hopefully for her on this. She recovers some type of money. But at the same time, I'm just looking at it. You know, I'm a criminal defense attorney, so I look at things through a defense minded set of glasses. I also, I also say it doesn't matter what I think, it matters what they can prove. And that is exactly how I felt here. But I think that, you know, in the court of public opinion, there's still a lot of people out there. You know, you saw what it was like outside that courthouse. She had a ton of supporters. They had supporters. And there's people who see this two different ways. As that's the case with every single thing in our society these days, there's very polarized views. And I'm thinking that, you know, if this was something that I didn't do and it really sat with me that whoever hurt this guy, and if it was this massive cover up, and I'm alleging that it was a massive cover up, I'm out there going, come on, police, where are you? Let's reopen this investigation and I'll assist in any way that I can.
- [29:41]
A
I Think she would be glad to assist. But you know, this. The feds have had this case now for. For three or four years. We've had Democrat administrations now Republican administrations. They've. They. I mean, they got her off. And they also busted another unsolved murder case in the same town, Canton, as you probably know, Sandra Birchmore, where the same corrupt forces ruled that her death was a suicide, when obviously it was a murder. And they have her boyfriend, a former cop's DNA on the actual murder weapon. And they didn't bother to check. They didn't bother to check their voice message. 32,000 text messages, and the state police claimed they couldn't find any of them. I mean, this is endemic corruption here, Donna. That's in the. In the. In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. You know, I mean, this. The same courthouse where she was framed 100 years ago, the case of Sacco and Vanzetti, the Italian anarchists who were framed for murder. And you know who. One of the. One of the top witnesses who lied later admitted he lied under oath was a state cop by the name of Proctor. I mean, this.
- [30:59]
B
The odds.
- [31:00]
A
I don't know if he's related, but, I mean, it's quite a coincidence, isn't it? I mean, it's like. It's. It's like this whole area is. Is haunted. You know, it's. It's. It's like the movie Cop Land. Remember that movie Cop Land? You know, all the.
- [31:13]
B
Oh, I sure do. That was a heart. That was a Harvey Weinstein movie. I know. I know that. I represented Harvey. That was a Harvey movie. I know it well.
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A
Well, there you go. I mean, this is like a. This is like a sequel to Cop Land, only worse, I think.
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B
Yeah, no, I think you're right. Let me ask you this. What do you think comes of her lawsuit against these police departments? Do you think this is something they settle before they have to sit for these depositions? Do you think that they come and they say, look, we don't want to put these officers through it. We don't want to. And, you know, they obviously can say no to a settlement, but do you think that they tried to cut this off at the pass before it gets worse?
- [31:54]
A
They have a record in Massachusetts, the state police, that really foot dragging. I mean, most. Most agencies, federal or state, have a record of foot dragging in these kinds of cases. But in this situation, I think it's just so devastating to the. To the state police that I think that there will eventually be some kind of settlement that. The same with the Town of Canton. I mean, they, you know, they framed other people, not just in, not just the Sandra Birchmore case I just mentioned, but they had a case in Braintree which is just up the road in the same county. They, they, they framed a guy for a murder, this was back in the 80s, on behalf of a gangster in South Boston. And they ended up, they ended up having to pay him $15 million when he was finally released from prison. I mean, again, this is, this is bad. This is like the, this is like. Well, it's really bad in the 1950s.
- [32:45]
B
No, it's, it's really bad. And what it does is it really shakens any kind of trust you could potentially have in these institutions. And, and that's the bigger problem. And it also puts into question any other convictions or cases that these officers have worked on over the years. And that is just an absolute travesty for the, the system in general. And you know, I, I never like to see these things happen because we have to trust the foundation of our justice system in order for it to work properly. And when it doesn't work properly, they need to pay the price for that.
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A
You know, one of the things that say it, it hasn't gotten nearly as much publicity so far as it is as it's going to. But this guy Proctor and all the text messages that have already been released and again, we know there's more coming. He brags about planting cocaine on defendants and I mean, doesn't. You're a defense lawyer. I think that opens a number of lines of inquiry, doesn't it, for defense lawyers? Any cases involving any state police.
- [33:57]
B
Sure. And any case that he was involved in directly, indirectly, the practices of those police departments, which I know is something that she is definitely attacking and looking for answers in this lawsuit. What do you think is next for Karen Reid, Howie?
- [34:13]
A
I think she's, I think she's just, she just remains in a state of, of limbo. There's not much she can do. She just has to, has to wait this thing out. And you know, the, the foot dragging that's going on by the, by, by Proctor and, and now the, the so called house defendants, the people who are suing her. I mean these, the judge down in, in all, in all these four cases is just becoming increasingly frustrated. He says, you know, why are we doing one deposition a month when we have, we have all these people to depose and more than a dozen lawyers are going to be having to come. I mean it's just, it's going to go on forever.
- [34:58]
B
Yeah, it's going to. It's really an interesting legal circumstance that all of these cases and how they are intertwined and how the depositions from one really could apply to another. And frankly, all the lawyers should get together and, you know, handle these depositions for one witness at a time and cover all the cases that they can. Howie, thank you. Thank you for your continued coverage on this case and thank you for joining me today.
- [35:23]
A
Thank you, Donna. I appreciate it.
- [35:27]
B
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A
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B
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A
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B
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