Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno

Episode: Nancy Guthrie Mystery Hits DNA Dead End
Date: February 18, 2026
Host: Donna Rotunno
Guests: Michael Ruiz (FOX News Digital), David Gager (Criminal Defense Attorney)

Episode Overview

The debut episode of "Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno" dives deep into the high-profile disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, an 84-year-old woman last seen in Tucson, Arizona. Donna is joined by investigative reporter Michael Ruiz and criminal defense attorney David Gager to break down ongoing investigative developments, focus on the complexities and limitations of DNA evidence, discuss the role of investigative genetic genealogy (IGG), and assess the transparency and communication of law enforcement. Through detailed analysis and legal insights, the podcast grapples with community fear, pressure on investigators, and the personal resonance of the case.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. DNA Evidence and Current Investigative Status

• DNA Hits a Dead End:
  • [00:33-01:41] Michael Ruiz summarizes recent developments—DNA found on a glove two miles from Nancy’s home did not match any profiles in the FBI’s CODIS database. The DNA also differs from samples found inside her house.
    • Quote: “...they put the DNA through CODIS, no hit. The DNA on the glove also doesn't match other DNA found inside her house.” — Ruiz [00:48]
  • Multiple DNA samples (some mixed from several people) are still undergoing analysis; investigative efforts to separate profiles are ongoing.
• Community Frustration:
  • [01:41-02:08] Donna expresses concern that the anticipated breakthrough from DNA hasn’t delivered answers, highlighting public impatience.

2. Investigative Steps Beyond DNA

• Recent Police Actions:
  • [02:08-03:00] Simultaneous raids and vehicle stops occurred over the weekend, but all those detained were released without charges.
• Probe Expanding to IGG:
  • [03:02-03:51] Investigators now consider investigative genetic genealogy (IGG)—tracing suspects through family trees/heritage to identify extended relatives, a method famously used in the Kohberger (Idaho) case.
    • Quote: “They can use those leads to track down suspects like that.” — Ruiz [03:26]
• Additional Investigation Angles:
  • [03:51-04:39] FBI is circulating lists with photos/names at local gun stores, cross-referencing surveillance video, and recovering video from compromised equipment using innovative forensic methods.

3. Comparisons to Other Cases & The Speed of IGG

• Learning from the Kohberger Case:
  • [04:39-06:44] Donna and Michael discuss the capture of Idaho killer Brian Kohberger via IGG, noting that technology and process speed have improved since, but establishing a genetic genealogy profile from evidence is still labor-intensive.
    • Quote: “The work has only gotten faster... This can happen in a matter of minutes.”—Ruiz on IGG process [06:14]
• Why Not Use IGG Immediately?
  • [06:44-07:53] Different forms of DNA testing (for CODIS vs. IGG) require separate processes; forming a genetic genealogy profile is more complex and data-intensive.
    • Quote: “It’s not just the genetics. It's a much more labor intensive kind of process once the IgG is in play.” — Ruiz [07:27]

4. Community Fear and Communications from Law Enforcement

• Rising Concern and Lack of Clarity:
  • [07:53-09:33] With no suspects and little public progress, neighbors are now anxious and locking doors—unusual in this close community. Communication missteps from the sheriff fuel public mistrust.
    • Quote: “This is a community where people leave their doors unlocked. I don't think that is the current feeling here.” — Ruiz [08:52]
    • Quote: “Every time the sheriff speaks, it's like he contradicts himself. And that has to be very frustrating for the people who live there...” — Rotunno [09:33]
• Sheriff Under Scrutiny:
  • [09:56-11:14] Ruiz notes the sheriff's inexperience with high-profile cases may explain wavering messaging, even though law enforcement is fully mobilized.
    • Quote: “...a small town sheriff thrust in the international media spotlight... but that said... he is working around the clock.” — Ruiz [09:56; summary paraphrase]
• Call for Better Communication:
  • [11:14] Donna advocates for more regular, transparent updates, even when there’s little news.

5. Forensic, Legal & Procedural Analysis

(David Gager joins at [11:36])

• Investigation Feels Like Starting Over:

  • [12:32-13:26] Gager expresses surprise at ongoing basic investigative actions (e.g., re-scanning for Nancy’s pacemaker, canvassing neighbors) so late in the process.
    • Quote: “I'm kind of shocked that... we're back to what appears to be square one now.” — Gager [12:50]

• Interpreting DNA from Multiple People:

  • [13:26-15:29] Many people’s DNA in a home is normal; visitors, workers, and package handlers (even lab staff) can leave traces. The focus must be on whether the profiles match those who should be present.
    • Quote: “Finding multiple profiles in someone's home is not necessarily a tell all, it's what's done with that information.” — Gager [14:56]

• Sheriff’s Handling of Key Details (Break-In, Blood Evidence):

  • [16:39-18:42] Both host and guest question the sheriff’s reluctance to clarify whether there was forced entry. Absence of this info frustrates the public and could have safety implications.
    • Quote: “I think that a full understanding of exactly what happened... is paramount... to a satisfaction of the public that they are safe.” — Gager [17:54]

• Clearing the Family as Suspects:

  • [18:42-20:36] Sheriff recently stated the Guthrie family is no longer considered suspects. Gager cautions such a declaration isn’t permanent—investigative focus can shift back if new evidence arises.

6. Broader Social and Emotional Impact

• Targeted or Random?
  • [21:15-22:28] Community fear intensifies if the crime appears not to be targeted, with the possibility that a vulnerable resident was randomly abducted.
    • Quote: “If this was not targeted... it's also extremely unnerving because basically, you took... one of the most vulnerable people in the community...” — Gager [21:15]
• Public Investment and Expectations:
  • [22:28-25:10] Despite the evolving nature of criminal investigations, the public is acutely impatient for results, especially given Nancy’s connection to a well-known media figure and the heavy resource investment at local and national levels.
    • Quote: “We live in a world of return on investment, and that's what this is. We've invested time... we have the head of the FBI commenting on us. We have the President... At that point... what is happening?” — Gager [24:28]

7. Legal Nuances of DNA and Evidence Preservation

• Limits and Risks of DNA Testing:
  • [25:10-27:38] Defense attorneys are concerned about the potential for crucial evidence to be “consumed” during analysis, leaving nothing for independent testing at trial.
    • Quote: “Every time DNA is tested, a little piece of it is extracted... And then that piece of the test... is spoiled. You can't use it again.” — Gager [26:17]
• The Power and Pitfalls of Trace Evidence:
  • “The general public, your average juror is saying your DNA was in the house, you were at the house.” — Gager [27:10], highlighting the persuasive (but sometimes misleading) impact DNA can have in court.

8. Procedural Surprises and International Complications

• Delay in Reviewing Surveillance:
  • [27:38-29:31] Internet speculation increased when investigators were seen inspecting neighbor’s surveillance cameras 18 days after the disappearance. Gager calls this a surprising delay given available resources—and cautions that critical footage could be lost with time.
• Investigation and the Mexico Border:
  • [29:31-32:01] Given Nancy’s house is only 75 miles from Mexico, listeners are curious about how cross-border investigations work. Gager assures that U.S. and Mexican authorities coordinate regularly, especially on high-profile cases.
    • Quote: “...investigations between law enforcement of the Mexican government and the American government... work in concert all the time...” — Gager [30:34]
  • [32:01-32:50] Ruiz adds that Border Patrol initially assisted with search dogs and that, as of now, no evidence suggests Nancy crossed into Mexico. Law enforcement is in contact with Mexican authorities as a precaution.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Community Tension:
  • “This has gone on now for 18 days without a suspect... It's a mystery that people don't really understand.” — Michael Ruiz [08:55]
• On Law Enforcement Communication:
  • “Every time the sheriff speaks, it's like he contradicts himself...” — Donna Rotunno [09:33]
• On Random Acts:
  • “Exceedingly rare. Almost unheard of, if you really think about it.” — David Gager, on the likelihood of a random abduction [21:53]
• On Investment and Expectation:
  • “We live in a world of return on investment, and that's what this is.” — David Gager [24:28]
• On Emotional Resonance:
  • “Well, and everybody has a mom, right? So anybody watching this can put themselves in that position and say, oh my goodness, if this was my mother.” — Donna Rotunno [25:10]
• On Evidence Handling:
  • “Every time DNA is tested, a little piece of it is extracted... And then that piece... is spoiled. You can't use it again.” — David Gager [26:17]

Important Timestamps

• 00:33: Update on DNA evidence and the dead end with CODIS
• 02:08: Recap of recent law enforcement raids, gun store checks, surveillance video recovery
• 03:14: Introduction to IGG (investigative genetic genealogy) as a potential path forward
• 04:39: Linking the Guthrie case to the Idaho “Kohberger” case for IGG process comparison
• 06:44: Technical reasons IGG isn’t used simultaneously with CODIS testing
• 08:51: Describing the shift in community feeling (“people are a little on edge”)
• 11:36: Defense attorney David Gager joins to offer legal perspective
• 13:26: DNA interpretation—why many profiles is not unusual
• 17:54: Frustration with incomplete information (break-in details, blood evidence)
• 20:36: Sheriff’s statement about clearing family members, and what that means legally
• 21:15: Discussion about targeted vs. random nature of the crime
• 25:10: Risks of consuming DNA samples before trials
• 29:31: Jurisdictional and investigative challenges regarding the Mexican border
• 32:01: Border Patrol and cross-border law enforcement communication

Conclusion

This episode delivers a comprehensive breakdown of the Nancy Guthrie disappearance, skilled analysis of investigative procedures, forensic and legal intricacies, and the psychological impact on the community and country. Donna Rotunno and her guests emphasize the delicate balance between urgency, due process, and transparency in a case where answers remain elusive and emotions are high. The episode sets the tone for the series—detailed, candid, and grounded in real courtroom and investigative expertise.