Nancy Guthrie Update| Desert Monsoon Clues

Summary

---

Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno

Episode: Nancy Guthrie Update | Desert Monsoon Clues
Date: August 6, 2026
Host: Donna Rotunno
Guest: Mike Ruiz (Fox News Digital Reporter)

---

Episode Overview

In this investigative episode, criminal defense attorney Donna Rotunno and reporter Mike Ruiz deliver a comprehensive update on the six-month-old disappearance of Nancy Guthrie from Tucson, Arizona. The episode delves into new evidence, procedural updates, local perspectives, and the challenges facing the investigation, particularly in the wake of ransom note releases and ongoing speculation about motives and suspects.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Release of Ransom Notes and Progress in the Inquiry

• Ransom Notes:

  • The sheriff's office recently released ransom notes to the public, hoping that new eyes might spot details or patterns previously missed.
  • Experts are scrutinizing the content, language, and formatting for clues.
  • The notes include oddities such as redundant currency notation (“$4 million USD”), strange grammar, and peculiar word choices (e.g., "perish").
  • Debate exists over whether the language reflects a foreign author, AI generation, or merely unpolished phrasing.

• Forensic Evidence:

  • A hair sample found early in the investigation was unable to yield a DNA profile; however, other mixed DNA samples collected from Nancy's bedding are currently undergoing advanced genetic genealogy analysis.

    "He revealed some new things. ...They were not able to generate a DNA profile from that piece of hair. So that's a big kind of letdown... There is other DNA...a mixed sample...they can hopefully detangle. And...the investigative genetic genealogy...is underway."
    — Mike Ruiz [02:10]

Sheriff’s Approach and Task Force Insights

• Public Criticism and Federal Involvement:

  • Sheriff Nanos has faced scrutiny for his management; federal agencies like the FBI have distanced themselves, emphasizing it’s a local case with limited federal support.
  • Despite this, the sheriff projects confidence and insists the case remains active and far from cold.

• Investigative Resources:

  • The task force consists of both sheriff's detectives and FBI agents, with additional analytical and lab support from around the country.
  • Surveillance collection has amassed tens of thousands of video clips from homes, businesses, and area roads, now being cataloged and made searchable using technology (e.g., searching for specific vehicles).

    "They're compartmentalizing it, putting it in categories, and easily searchable computerized databases so that they can go back later. So...if a red car comes up as an item of interest, they're going to be able to search now their collection that they've processed for all of the red cars that they've collected."
    — Mike Ruiz [07:29]

• Private Sector Collaboration:

  • The sheriff noted assistance from unnamed tech companies; for example, Google played a role in recovering deleted Nest doorbell footage.

Handling and Interpretation of Ransom Notes

• Timing of Release:

  • Donna and Mike question the rationale for the delayed public release, suggesting either a tactic to revitalize leads or an indication of stagnation.

    "It just seems like these letters could have been released a long time ago. I don't think that releasing the actual content of the letter was going to hinder an investigation."
    — Donna Rotunno [13:09]

• Authenticity and Content:

  • Law enforcement is divided on the authenticity of the notes. With no concrete proof of their origin, they remain investigative leads rather than proof.

    "The sheriff's view is, is just, he's going to maintain positivity. ...Even the investigators are split on the notes. I think that there is a camp that says they're not real, and there is also a camp that says...we can't rule them out."
    — Mike Ruiz [21:43]

Community Involvement and New Searches

• Neighborhood Dynamics:

  • Neighbors report renewed FBI activity during the current Tucson "monsoon season," with law enforcement searching the desert terrain behind Nancy's house—a unique landscape prone to sudden flooding and erosion.

    "They saw FBI back in the neighborhood searching the brush behind Nancy's home. ...When it rains in the desert, it comes down fast and hard...there's a lot of erosion. It moves things around."
    — Mike Ruiz [14:46]

• Impact of Rainfall:

  • Flooding may unearth previously hidden evidence; the terrain has historically revealed ancient remains due to erosion.

Changes in the Investigation Team

• Leadership 'Shake-Up':
  • A sergeant leading the task force is being promoted; leadership of the task force and broader homicide squad will shift accordingly. Impact on the case’s progress is uncertain.

Legal and Procedural Developments

• Potential Lawsuits:
  • Two men questioned and searched early in the investigation are reportedly considering lawsuits for wrongful detention, but given warrants and due process, neither Donna nor Mike think they hold much merit.

    "They acted in good faith. They had evidence, they had, you know, probable cause...the detention was fairly minimal."
    — Donna Rotunno [28:35]

Theories: Motive and Modus Operandi

• ‘Wrench Attack’ Hypothesis:

  • The possibility Nancy was targeted as a "proxy" to extort her daughter Savannah—a cryptocurrency figure—is discussed. Such attacks, involving both a mastermind and a hired perpetrator, are on the rise globally, notably in France and increasingly in the U.S.

    "The theory is that they would go after Savannah's vulnerable mother to extort Savannah...these wrench attacks...are documented on the rise."
    — Mike Ruiz [24:21]

• Random vs. Targeted Crime:

  • Both Donna and Mike agree that the crime appears more targeted than random, given Nancy’s profile and location.

Ongoing Appeals and Public Involvement

• Unified Plea for Tips:
  • Both Nancy’s daughter Savannah and the sheriff have renewed public appeals, emphasizing that “somebody knows something.”

    "It actually was interesting to see that Savannah put that in her Instagram post. And the sheriff, when I left my interview...said, you know, we believe the same as Savannah does, that somebody knows something."
    — Mike Ruiz [29:47]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "He appears confident and energetic about the case...we don't have a publicly identified suspect...they're not out of leads...tens of thousands of pieces of video evidence they're still sorting through."
  — Mike Ruiz on Sheriff Nanos’s outlook [04:27]

• "But for you, when you sat down with Sheriff Nanos and you listened to him...when you walked out of there, what was your biggest takeaway...?"
  — Donna Rotunno prompting Mike’s gut impressions [09:02]

• "If there's evidence that points us back to someone who we ruled out, then that opens the door to looking at him again."
  — Mike Ruiz quoting Sheriff Nanos [10:09]

• "I think because of the grammatical mistakes, that's less likely to be A.I."
  — Mike Ruiz on ransom note analysis [11:28]

• "Odds are this person didn't act alone. So we also will continue to hope that someone finally has the desire to say it's time to do the right thing, and they do come forward."
  — Donna Rotunno in closing remarks [30:44]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sheriff Interview and Investigation Updates: [01:28]–[11:08]
• Ransom Notes Analysis: [11:28]–[14:31]
• Community & Neighborhood Leads: [14:46]–[17:47]
• Leadership Changes & Task Force Structure: [17:58]–[20:35]
• Notes Authenticity Debate: [20:35]–[23:29]
• ‘Wrench Attack’ Ransom Theory: [24:05]–[27:06]
• Legal Developments (Potential Lawsuits): [27:37]–[28:35]
• Unified Public Appeal: [29:47]–[30:44]

---

Conclusion

Six months since Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, the investigation remains active but fraught with challenges: evidence bottlenecks, public criticism, confusing ransom communications, plausible new motives, and shifts within the detective squad. The release of the ransom notes, renewed searches in the wake of desert monsoon rains, and modern private tech partnerships have given the case fresh visibility, but it remains unsolved. The unified plea from both authorities and the victim’s family is clear—someone knows something, and community engagement remains crucial.

---

Listen to the full episode of Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno for deeper analysis and the human stories behind the headlines.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This episode is supported by FX's the Shards, a seductive drama from executive producer Ryan Murphy. Set in 1980s Los Angeles, the series follows a group of glamorous, deeply entangled high school seniors drawn into a life of wealth, beauty, parties and excess. At its center is Brett, whose reality begins to unravel when the arrival of a new student coincides with a series of mysterious murders. FX's the Shards now streaming on Hulu.

[Donna Rotuno]

This is crime and Justice. I'm Donna Rotuno. Six months after Nancy Guthrie vanished, experts wonder why the sheriff in charge of the case decided to release ransom notes to the public last week. If you have any information on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, call 1-800- CALL FBI.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

The Hulu original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

[Mike Ruiz]

There are three victims we know of. The suspect is female, white, late twenties.

[Donna Rotuno]

Female serial killers kill for power, control. I believe there is a deeper motivation here.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

You have no idea who you're dealing with and you are gonna end up dead.

[Mike Ruiz]

I've been waiting for you.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Watch the Hulu original series, Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for monthly subscrib supply.

[Donna Rotuno]

Back with us today is Mike Ruiz of Fox News Digital, who sat down with Sheriff Nanos last week. Mike, tell me about your trip to Tucson.

[Mike Ruiz]

I went back last week in the lead up to the six month mark since Nancy Guthrie's abduction. So that that happened Saturday. And we wanted to just see what it looked like on the ground to talk to whoever we could get. See what? See what kind of new information would come of it. And we didn't really know what to expect going into it. But the sheriff did have a lot to say. We got to sit down and talk face to face. And, you know, he revealed some new things. I mean, you know, the big thing that you saw over the weekend is that they put the ransom notes out there for everybody to see. And I think a lot of people are looking at them, you know, with a fine tooth comb to go through what they can glean off of it. And, you know, the other thing that the sheriff told me that was new is that they had gotten in this hair sample early on. There was a lot of back and forth over where it was going to go get tested, but now all of the testing is complete on it, and they were not able to generate a DNA profile from that piece of hair. So that's a big kind of letdown. It would, you know, he said that they can't rule out that the hair came from a suspect. It still could be the suspect's hair. They just couldn't get DNA off it. So a little bit of a disappointing development there. But also, there is other DNA that they recovered. We know at least that there's a mixed sample that they took, and I'm told it was on a bed clipping, piece of the sheets from Nancy's room or the blankets or something. And there's a mixed sample that they can hopefully detangle. And the sheriff said that the IGG work the investigative genetic genealogy, where they look through the family tree, try to figure out where this may have come from. Work on that is. Is underway. So a lot of new stuff, even though, you know, not so much progress.

[Donna Rotuno]

Let me ask you this, because I think this is really interesting. Obviously, the sheriff has been under you know, a lot of criticism for the way he's handled it. I know even Cash Patel from the FBI has basically said it's their investigation, we've assisted, but they own it, and, you know, seems to be trying to distance the DOJ and the, you know, the federal government from it a little bit. So let me ask you your impressions, right? You had the opportunity to sit down with Sheriff Nanos. How did that happen? How did he agree to sit down with you? What's your take on sort of the way he presents himself, how he is? You know, he seems like he has a personable personality. You know, kind of just give us, like, the color behind it, because I think we miss some of that and all of the, you know, the technical analysis of what has and has not been done. So talk to me a little bit about how you perceived him.

[Zocdoc Advertiser]

He.

[Mike Ruiz]

He appears confident and energetic about the case, which is interesting because we're six months in. We don't have a publicly identified suspect. But one of the things that he kind of kept bringing up was that they're. They're not out of leads. You know, I think that the kind of definition of a cold case is when you just have checked everything out and you've exhausted all those avenues and you don't know what to do next. That has not happened. He told me that they have tens of thousands of pieces of video evidence that they're still sorting through. And he believes that that may include in this, you know, if they have just tons of video that they haven't looked at yet, he believes that in that there could be more signs of the suspect. So he's confident that as they go through this, they will make progress.

[Donna Rotuno]

Did you get any idea from him where those. Where those pieces of video are from. Are they from, you know, cameras out on roads? Are they from cameras from people's homes? Is it still part of trying to piece together pieces of data from camera at Nancy Guthrie's house and that nest device? I mean, did you get any sense from him? Cause tens of thousands of videos. And I watched him say this at. Right. Over 10,000 video clips. That's a lot. And I'm wondering how many they've gone through to this point six months in to still have 10,000 left and where the. What the source of those clips are, if we know.

[Mike Ruiz]

Yeah. So as far as sources go, I think. I think it's all of the above. And while, you know, he and most investigators are like this, they're reluctant to kind of go into specifics about what they have and what they don't have. We know from talking to people in the area, because we spent so much time on the ground there, we know a general area of where businesses were asked to submit surveillance camera. We know a general area of where neighbors were asked to check their ring and. And similar home security cameras. We know in other directions where the initially swept that were not asked and were not canvassed. And that when we went and talked to them ourselves, they had video that may or may not have been useful, but it fit the right timing, and then that was given over to the investigation. So we do have a rough idea of the footprint of where these videos come from, at least to an extent. And I am imagining now that as they've gone through that, they've also fanned out into an even wider radius, because it has been six months, and maybe they're collecting further down some of these major roads in and out of the area around Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood, which is the Catalina foothills. It's right on the northern edge of Tucson.

[Donna Rotuno]

Well, and we would hope that whatever video they want to look at, They've at least already taken into their possession, Because a lot of video doesn't last much longer than 30 days. Right. Potentially. So some of these cameras either erase themselves or they only store for a certain period of time. So we would hope that anything that they're hoping to look at, they at least have in their possession and they've preserved those things.

[Mike Ruiz]

Yeah. So if that wasn't clear, it sounds like, yes, they do have all of this, and they're still going through it. And what the sheriff told me was that they're. They're compartmentalizing it, putting it in categories, and easily searchable computerized databases so that they can Go back later. So, for example, if they, the example that he gave is if a red car comes up as an item of interest, they're going to be able to search now their collection that they've processed for all of the red cars that they've collected. So, so that the collection is in. And now it's like sorting and identifying and making a searchable kind of database that the investigators can access.

[Donna Rotuno]

Were you surprised that he agreed to sit down with you? Because he really hasn't, I mean, he's, he's given little bits and pieces of interviews, but he hasn't really done much. He hasn't had any kind of a press conference in a very, very long time. So were you surprised that he agreed to sit down and take the questions?

[Mike Ruiz]

I was. We had tried for a couple of other sit down interviews or, you know, in the first day we had tentatively set something up and his office canceled a few minutes before we were supposed to meet. I was present for, for two of those press conferences in the first week and that was the last time I was in a room with him. You know, we've, we've communicated over the phone, over email. But in terms of a sit down interview, you know, this was the first one we actually did. So six months in, I was a little surprised. I wasn't sure if it would happen right. Or if something would come up again and we kind of wouldn't be able to do it, but we did.

[Donna Rotuno]

What was your, like, biggest takeaway from it? Because for me watching it, he has this sort of nonchalant and I'm sure it's just his personality, but he kind of has this nonchalant way about him. He sort of throws out these numbers and yeah, I think we're going to solve it. And nothing seems overly concrete to me. But you're right, he does have this sort of positive thought process about him, but it just, it just didn't seem like anything was, you know, unbelievably strong. And, and you know, even in talking about the letters and you know, saying they want to put the letters out there to see if anybody can get anything from the pattern of speech. And I mean, I know there are some words in those letters that seem a little odd. You know, parish maybe is a strange word to use when someone dies. And, but at the end of the day, I didn't look at that and think, oh my gosh, it's so clear to me that this is either a foreign person or English as a second language. To me it seemed more like AI generated than anything else. But for you, when you sat down with Sheriff Nanos and you listened to him, what was. When you walked out of there, what was your biggest takeaway or your impression as you walked out the door?

[Mike Ruiz]

My impression is because he. We actually met before they released the notes, you know, and he kind of flagged, we're going to do something. Be ready. But he didn't say anything about it. So my impression, I think, is that they have more than we have seen. Hopefully it's much more, you know, than this than just the notes. Remains to be seen what that is. I. I think 1, 1, maybe this was foreshadowing, maybe it's not. But I asked him if anybody who had been looked at already in the case was really ruled out or not. And he said, look, if there's evidence that points us back to someone who we ruled out, then that opens the door to looking at him again. So I don't know if he's hinting at something with that or what, but you got to assume that if they had enough probable cause at some point to get a warrant, there's a chance that some new development comes up that strengthens that and they have something else to look for. So that, I think was. Was the biggest takeaway.

[Donna Rotuno]

Yeah, that I thought was interesting, too, because he had made a big point about talking about who was ruled out. And all of us are going, well, how do you really rule out anybody when you're really not sure what happened here? So I did think that was interesting as well. You spoke to some legal experts after your conversation with the sheriff, and what did they point out to you?

[Mike Ruiz]

I think one of the big things about that that people are looking at now, because we can finally see it, is the notes. And, you know, the excerpts of the notes have been read. They're kind of in the public realm. But now when you see it adding in the grammar, the way it was written, I think you can analyze it. At least the, you know, experts that I've talked to are analyzing it a little bit more intelligently than when you hear it read. And you don't necessarily know the weird punctuation. You know, a lot of people had made sure a point since day one when the notes first came out that he said USD, and they thought that that meant maybe that's somebody foreign. But when you look at it, it's. It's written. It's not written in as USD, it's written redundantly. It's, you know, the dollar sign. 4 million. So $4 million. And then USD, so $4 million US dollars. It's, it's kind of like they didn't think it through. I don't know that, I don't know that it says the same thing. Now that you see it in that context and you see the weird placement of the commas and how, you know, the, the sentences aren't really written in like normal sentences. Their grammar isn't all there. And actually I think because of the grammatical mistakes, that's less likely to, to be A.I. i think A.I. would, you know, generate proper grammar. And that's one of the things that the experts I've spoken with have pointed out.

[Donna Rotuno]

If you talk text in your phone, they, they put the most bizarre punctuation and grammar in a talk text.

[Mike Ruiz]

So you never know, you never do know it. But it is something that I think, you know, people are looking at. It just gives you more of more material to interpret when you are looking at the way that it was sent compared to just how someone read it.

[Donna Rotuno]

Yeah, I agree with that and I think, you know, it was interesting. I guess the major question then is why not just release them back in February when they first came out? It seems like this is a long time to wait. So I guess the question is, is that really an indication that they are grasping at straws and they're throwing anything out there to see if any. There's any other piece of evidence that may them to something. It just seemed, you know, it was almost like this is the six months we have to do something, we'll throw these letters out there. It just seems like these letters could have been released a long time ago. I don't think that releasing the actual content of the letter was going to hinder an investigation. So I, I don't know, it just seems, seems timing of it seems interesting to me. Yeah.

[Mike Ruiz]

And I mean, you know, if you look at it, they redacted things that are, are silly. Like they redacted the sender's email. Well, there's no chance that it's real. Right. It's, it's the. Probably just they made something up because they don't want to be caught. They haven't been able to trace that email back to, to the ransomware. So why is that redacted? Why are the date of birth redacted? And they redacted the bitcoin address. So if you can reject that stuff when you release this, I mean, I think the big argument of not releasing it early on was because there was information about the scene that only the abductor would know. So redact that part, too, if you're going to redact all this other stuff.

[Donna Rotuno]

Right.

[Mike Ruiz]

Yeah. It is kind of questionable why they held onto it for that long.

[Donna Rotuno]

So did you learn anything else while you were down there in terms of things happening? Did you talk to anybody that lives in the area? Did you kind of get any other information for us that we did not

[Mike Ruiz]

learn from the sheriff, actually? Good question. And yes. So, you know, we've been in touch with a lot of the neighbors in that area, you know, going back to February, and, you know, we stayed in touch with them. And I reached out to a few, including someone who lives two doors down from Nancy's home, and they told me that they, you know, their words were FBI. They saw FBI back in the neighborhood searching the brush behind Nancy's home. So there's a backyard, and then there's like, kind of this natural. It's. It's the foothills, so there's like dips and hills, kind of desert landscape back there. And they were. They were back there looking. And the sheriff's department told me that it wasn't task force officers who would be a combination of FBI agents and detectives on the case, but the neighbor insists that it was people she recognized from earlier trips here with the FBI. Haven't heard back from the FBI yet on this, but I did talk to local SWAT commander, he's retired, named Bob Krieger, who kind of is very familiar with the area. And, you know, he had a kind of an explanation as to why they would go back and look around. And it's apparently what they call monsoon season in Tucson right now. And the rains, you know, and when it rains in the desert, it comes down fast and hard. Not for a long time, but there's a lot of erosion. It moves things around. And, you know, kind of an explanation would be either, A, they have new evidence and a new reason to go back there and look, or B, because of this rain that they've had, they're just doing a sweep to see if anything moved around. And something that they didn't see last time is now exposed and out in the open. So it's kind of an interesting kind of little bit of a.

[Donna Rotuno]

That is very. Yeah.

[Mike Ruiz]

Feature to that landscape. Right. That whole area is full of these. They call them ephemeral rivers. And they're. They're dry till it rains, and then it's a river for an hour, and then it dries again, you know. But these channels where they constantly flood and then dry up, that's. That's kind of a focus, I think, that's unique to this area.

[Donna Rotuno]

Very. And what would really be interesting is if they did find something right at this point, you know, especially if there's a ton of water and rains really hard and it may take away any of the evidentiary value, but who knows, right? It depends on, depends on what they find. I mean, if you're, if you're looking for a body or bones or something of that nature, then I guess the, the rain wouldn't matter.

[Mike Ruiz]

Well, to give you an idea of what, what's out there, last time we went in May, five miles down the road, there was somebody, a YouTuber named AJW was going out looking, you know, ostensibly for Nancy, did come across human bones. They had been buried a thousand years ago and the erosion just recently washed them up. And they, they had no connection to the case. But that's the kind of thing that you might find in this environment.

[Donna Rotuno]

Right. Tell me about the reports of a shake up in the investigation, because I know we've been hearing that there is a shake up. Did you get any other information about that? What is the shake up?

[Mike Ruiz]

So there's a, there's a task force running the investigation and it's members of the sheriff's homicide squad and it's local FBI agents and there's a sheriff, sorry, a sergeant with the sheriff's department who's running the task force, who's now being promoted to a lieutenant. And so as he gets promoted, the shakeup, if again, if we can call it that, is going to be that the sergeant running the regular homicide squad, so not this special task force, will just kind of slide over and also, you know, now be running the homicide squad and the Nancy Guthrie task force. So that's a little bit of a change in leadership. I don't know how impactful that will be.

[Donna Rotuno]

Do you have any sense of how many people they actually have working on this case on a daily basis, how big this task force is?

[Mike Ruiz]

I think the task force, right, is, is the actual investigators, the detectives and the FBI. And I don't know the actual number, but I think, I think it's ballpark like a half dozen. But then the, the, the lab work and the analysts that they have assisting is a much larger number. And, you know, according to the sheriff, they have multiple labs now around the country involved. It's not just, you know, early on it was the sheriff's lab in Florida versus Quantico. I mean, now they're talking about labs in multiple states. And another thing actually that that was new, that the sheriff told me is that they're getting help from corporate America. What that means, he didn't really want to specify. But what we know about already is that Google was involved in recovering Nancy's Nest doorbell video. If you remember that the camera was physically gone. She didn't have a subscription. It wasn't like an easy, oh, we can just go access her camera. They had to go through some back end technological stuff to get what they got. And he gave that example as the kind of help that private companies are doing without going into specifics of what anybody else is offering. He kind of, I'm paraphrasing, but he used the phrase the best and brightest minds in America are helping out with this case. So what could that mean? You know, technology companies have access to lots and lots of data. It could be, you know, telecommunications companies AT&T. Verizon, that kind of thing. It could be companies that run apps that collect location data. Could be helpful to piecing together who was in the area at the time. So I really don't know specifically what that means, but I think we can expect some, some creative methodology is going on behind the scenes in this case.

[Donna Rotuno]

Sure. And when, when we look at that second letter. Right. That second letter, which of course again we knew about back in February where they claim, you know, she died accidentally, they weren't expecting this. How, how are the sheriffs and the task force treating that information? Because, you know, this is something that we still don't know. Right. Everybody believes that these are the two letters that may be authentic out of everything that's been sent, but there's really no actual guarantee that they're authentic letters, number one. And number two, given the fact that they received this information that she's no longer alive, you know, do they believe that? Are they, is that the way that they're moving forward now? I mean, I think we all thought, given her age and her condition, that she wasn't going to survive very long without medication and proper care and, you know, being in a calm environment. But how is the sheriff's office and how is the investigation treating the fact that they knew allegedly very early on that she had died? And you know, are they taking that to be authentic from, from these notes?

[Mike Ruiz]

The sheriff's view is, is just, he's going to maintain positivity. I don't know what he believes in his heart. Right. But I think that he's kind said, what's the point in, in acknowledging that, that, that, that they think she's dead. You know, like you said, the note has not been authenticated as true. They think it's potentially from the abductor. And we know that they've said that they're treating it as a. As a kidnap for hire or a kidnapper ransom, I think is the proper phrase. But that's about all we know. Yeah, yeah, we don't. We don't know a suspect. We know other people have sent fake ransom notes and already been taken to court and pleaded guilty. But we don't know beyond. Beyond. I mean, people on the investigation that I've spoken with and people with knowledge of the investigation that I've spoken with, the impression I'm getting is even the investigators are split on the notes. I think that there is a camp that says they're not real, and there is also a camp that says, well, until we verify anything, we can't rule them out. So that's, I guess, still part of a very active part of this investigation.

[Donna Rotuno]

Well, and I guess the question is, how do you truly authenticate whether or not they're real until potentially you solve this thing? Right. I mean, otherwise they're just out there as another piece of information. And maybe you find something later on in your investigation that shows that these are completely false, or maybe when you solve it, you come to some realization, given other pieces of evidence that they're real. But in terms of trying to authenticate them on the. On their own without any other pieces of evidence, I think it makes it really difficult.

[Mike Ruiz]

Right. And I mean, you know, what is, what does this stuff mean? You know, there's. They haven't been able to trace this back to the person. So if you don't know who sent it, how could you. You don't know if they're in Tucson, if they're in Europe, if they're in Asia, Russia. I mean, they could be. It could be anywhere in the world until you identify them. And then if they're, if they're. When you. Once you know who they are and where they are, I mean, do they have any ties to anyone who could have carried this out? If they're too far away to have done it themselves or did they do it themselves? And there's a tech savvy, you know, kidnapper on the loose in Tucson who nobody could find.

[Donna Rotuno]

So there's this theory out there that Nancy Guthrie was the target because she's a high net worth proxy. Talk to me about that. What you think about that? Is that being discussed when you go out to Tucson? Give me your thoughts there.

[Mike Ruiz]

Yeah. So I actually asked the sheriff about it. He didn't have much to say. I think it's. It's a plausible possibility. I don't think it's a focus, at least in the sheriff's words. It doesn't appear to be a focus of the investigation, but it is an interesting theory. And. And there's been a couple of reports recently about this type of attack and how they're on the rise. So they're called wrench attacks. And it's the name of. It literally comes from a meme about a hacker who couldn't figure out how to hack somebody's password and said, I'll just go hit him with a wrench until they tell me. And the idea is that you go and do physical violence on someone to get their. Their password or their money or whatever you. You. You know, whatever you want from them. And the reason that she's a proxy, the reason that this is being called a kind of a modified, potentially wrench attack, is that Nancy's not the one with the money. Nancy's not the crypto keeper. Savannah's the one with the money. And the theory is that they would go after Savannah's vulnerable mother to extort Savannah. So those types of crimes actually are documented on the rise. The worst country that they happen in is France, which has way more than we've seen in America. But in the United States, this is. They are the sec. This is the second most afflicted country by this type of scam attack.

[Donna Rotuno]

Yeah, I mean, I think it would be hard not to look at that, given the fact that it doesn't seem that Nancy Guthrie herself would be a target for any type of, you know, kidnapping or violence. I mean, it does seem very strange that this would be some random act where they found her in the middle of this area where she lives. Very residential, a little bit remote. It just. It seems to sort of defeat any logic to think that this was just some random kidnapping.

[Mike Ruiz]

So this whole wrench attack thing, I think, is very similar to just a ransom kidnapping. The only deal, the new Develop the new layer of it is the technological kind of aspect of it. You know, they're going for the bitcoin. It could very well be somebody. You know, these wrench attacks are kind of like split into two camps. There's the brain behind it. They call them the mastermind, the criminal thinker. And then there's the muscle who is hired and is a collaborator who carries out the actual physical violence. And they don't need to actually be in proximity they don't need to have known each other. They're just in cahoots. Right. So, you know, some hacker in Iran could hire a thug.

[Donna Rotuno]

Sure.

[Mike Ruiz]

In another country to go beat someone up, extort them, try to get their money. That's the, that's the kind of theory there. So the ransom kidnapping is a little, a lot more simple. It could just be one person went and grabbed their wants ransom. So this is a little bit more elaborate. And when you look at how they haven't been able to trace the, the ransom notes back to an individual, you know, you got to think that it's possible that they're pretty tech savvy, hacker type person who has, has done a pretty effective job covering their tracks.

[Donna Rotuno]

No question about it. So there were two men that were questioned very early on in this investigation. There were homes that were searched. And now those two men are threatening multimillion dollar lawsuits for wrongful detention. Do you think that they have any leg to stand on there?

[Mike Ruiz]

These two guys come from two different entirely backgrounds. Now one is a felon.

[Donna Rotuno]

Yes.

[Mike Ruiz]

With an active case and a big rap sheet and is probably not the first time he's been raided, to be honest. But in both cases, warrants were obtained lawfully, they were signed off by a judge, and they went and served them. So I, you know, you're the legal expert. I think you would have a better idea than I would about, you know, what kind of potential there is for damages there. I mean, it looks to me like they got the warrants properly and the things didn't pan out. And yeah, that happened. And also the sheriff said, look, if we get more evidence, we may very well come back and look at these people again.

[Donna Rotuno]

Yeah, I think that it was fair. They acted in good faith. They had evidence, they had, you know, probable cause to be able to go there. And the detention was fairly minimal. I mean, this was not a situation where they were kept for a long period of time. So I agree with you. I don't really think that those are going anywhere. Before we leave today, Mike, let's talk about Savannah's most recent post. I think, you know, obviously it came out in conjunction with the timing of the six month anniversary. It came out with the actual release of the content of the letters that we learned about in February. Tell me what you thought about it and if you think there was any. Anything to take from it. I mean, to me, I thought that there was two different ways you could look at it. One, she was not really being given any new information and therefore it Was this cry for, you know, anything to keep this in the news, anything to try to get more information or. The second thought process was that she had been told by law enforcement that things were happening and they wanted her to get back out there again. So I kind of thought that there's two ways you could look at it. Do you have an opinion and what do you think about the most recent post from Savannah?

[Mike Ruiz]

Well, you know, actually, what's interesting to your point is that Savannah and the sheriff both had kind of a similar plea. Somebody knows something. Please report them. Somebody's behaving differently or was behaving differently, or you recognize the video or you recognize the writing style in this note. Please call the FBI. Please call 8A crime. And it actually was interesting to see that Savannah put that in her Instagram post. And the sheriff, when I left my interview with him and I asked him, you know, what. What would you like to add? I mean, he said, you know, we believe the same as Savannah does, that somebody knows something. Please call it in. So that is kind of a united message six months in, which is. Which stood out to me because I don't know that everybody in all of the different parts of this investigation have been unified in that kind of message before.

[Donna Rotuno]

Yeah, I think you're right. I think somebody does know something. Obviously, someone took her. Right. So that person themselves knows something, but someone in that person's life. Odds are this person didn't act alone. So we also will continue to hope that someone finally has the desire to say it's time to do the right thing, and they do come forward. But in the meantime, I know they're continuing to investigate this. Mike, I know you are continuing to stay on it for us and Fox News Day. You have been an unbelievable resource. And thank you again for joining me this morning. Thank you for joining me for another episode of Crime and Justice. Remember, we want to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, questions, or theories, and we will answer them on air.

[Zocdoc Advertiser]

At zocdoc, we know being a healthy adult is like living in a video game. Every day has side quests, taxes, laundry, birthdays. And just when you're leveling up, you have to book a doctor. The insurance portal crashes. They put you on hold. Your doctor doesn't take your plan. Game over. We see you. So we made booking a doctor easy. Download Sockdoc. Search by specialty, insurance and availability. Book instantly. No cheat codes required. Find a doctor you love with ZocDoc.